so much for no major announcements during the World Series

[pravata]

What a couple assholes, Rodriguez's decision, to opt out of the remainder of his contract, was announced by agent Scott Boras during Game 4 of the World Series.

"Alex made the decision today," Boras told SI.com. "I thought we should notify the club."
Link

Boras said he attempted to notify Yankees general manager Brian Cashman of the decision but couldn't reach him, so he left a voice mail.

"He was traveling and I was traveling," Boras said. Link

(These two quotes are regarding his suggestion to the League to add two games to the World Series, but they are appropriate here)

“He takes himself very seriously,” Fay Vincent, the former commissioner, said recently of Boras. “I’m not surprised that he’s beginning to make grandiose suggestions.”

Marvin Miller, “That’s a typical example of an agent forgetting what his real role is,” Miller said. ...it’s quite typical. It’s a joke.” Link

(Here's Boras' plan for Rodriguez,)

the rumor that Boras was planning to arrange for an unprecedented deal, in which Alex Rodriguez would opt out of his contract with the Yankees, ... to become part owner of the Chicago Cubs. Link

(and this statement suggests he's testing out the role)

"Alex's decision was one based on not knowing what his closer, his catcher and one of his statured pitchers was going to do," Boras said. Link

[JackAstro]

the rumor that Boras was planning to arrange for an unprecedented deal, in which Alex Rodriguez would opt out of his contract with the Yankees, ... to become part owner of the Chicago Cubs. Link

"...wherever he goes he sits, or sometimes stands, in one of the first few rows directly in back of home plate, cell phone at his ear."

If I had the good fortune of sitting (or sometimes standing) in such a spot at a ballgame, and it was ruined by that assclown yammering into his cell phone the entire time, I would be forced to suckerpunch him in the windpipe, tasering and frivolous lawsuit be damned. If it were at MMPUS, it's possible that Drayton would post bail for me.

[Taras Bulba]

Clemens stood about 5 yards in front of me during most of the UT game on Saturday, talking on at least two different cell phones much of the time (I was on row 1 on the 20 yard line near the north end zone on the west side).  I refrained from throwing smack his way (he had two sons with him) but it didn't stop others ("Hey, Roger; the Yankees suck!").  His new boy toy, Joba Chamberlain was with him. 

[Astroholic]

His new boy toy, Joba Chamberlain was with him. 

My God, I bet that makes Andy so Jealous.

[kevwun]

Peter Gammons was especially annoyed by it because he had to stop talking about the Red Sox for 15 seconds.

[pravata]

George Steinbrenner, was quoted in Saturday's editions of the New York Times as saying the team will make a decision Monday (regarding their manager) and an announcement the following day if given permission by commissioner Bud Selig, who must approve announcements made during the World Series. Or what?

"Every club has to do what they think is right," Selig said. "What they're doing now internally, they're entitled to do that." Link

According to multiple sources, Dodgers general manager Ned Colletti has been in contact with Girardi about potentially becoming manager Grady Little's bench coach if Girardi isn't named manager of the New York Yankees. ...

"The Dodgers won't be making any news until after the World Series," said Camille Johnston, the club's senior vice president for communications, in adherence with commissioner Bud Selig's edict that teams avoid upstaging the game's premier event.Teams, not agents.Link


Selig Doesn't Want Yankees to Name Manager During World Series
Oct. 27 (Bloomberg) --
``I only feel as the commissioner is now once the World Series starts there are no announcements,'' Selig told reporters before Game 3 of the championship series between the Boston Red Sox and Colorado Rockies in Denver. ...Selig said he has refused requests by other unnamed clubs to make announcements during the World Series.

``If all those clubs were in the World Series and somebody else said something, they would be mad,'' he said. ``I'd like the same respect shown.'' Link

You tell em Bud!

[Craig]

Clemens stood about 5 yards in front of me during most of the UT game on Saturday, talking on at least two different cell phones much of the time (I was on row 1 on the 20 yard line near the north end zone on the west side).  I refrained from throwing smack his way (he had two sons with him) but it didn't stop others ("Hey, Roger; the Yankees suck!").  His new boy toy, Joba Chamberlain was with him. 

Roger's got to have two cell phones, because one of them has that shitty reception that always drops out when Debbie calls. He needs the second phone so she can keep him up-to-date on the intricacies of her burgeoning Pink Caps empire. Plus he's probably got a third phone that stays in his ass pocket. That one's just for Alice.

[strosrays]

My God, I bet that makes Andy so Jealous.

Go ask Alice.

[Gizzmonic]

May I quoteth the great JackAstro ?

Here's what he wrote about Boras and Boras' Show Pony a few weeks back:

Shrewd? If anything, Boras is underreaching here. I would have put forth that A-Rod will play into his mid-60's, inclusive of a 20-year second stint as a crafty southpaw knuckleballer. During this time he will break, shatter and lap all known hitting and pitching records, as well as records for several unknown statistics that will have to be created just to quantify some of his more esoteric future accomplishments.

Sure in this knowledge, I can say with some precision that he will be worth exactly Eleventy Billion Dollars in merchandising revenue alone over the course of his contract. Also, he will live to be 153 years old before transforming into a radiant sphere of light that unites mankind in its beauty and grandeur. The sight of it will end war and bigotry, usher in an era of global prosperity and goodwill, and will be governed by a personal services contract through the year 2150, with a mutual option period beginning in 2145.

[Duman]

Does anyone else remember a backlash of this proportion when Jordan announced during game 2 of the ALCS that he was retiring from Basketball to try his hand at Baseball?

The Whitesox were playing and it was the Whitesox he was joining.  It overshadowed the AL series but it was good press for the WhiteSox. 

I think the bigger issue here is not that it was a major announcement during the Series but that it was Yankee related news on the day the Red Sox won the world series.  That is what got Gammon's upset.

MLB should have learned from it's lessons with Curt Flood, you can't control players.  They are not slaves.  And individuals and their agents are not required to abide by your rules. 

I see nothing different about what Jordan did than what A-Rod did.  MLB and Gammons need to chill out.  That announcement has kept baseball on the front pages for a few days longer than an anticlimactic world series.

[JimR]

Does anyone else remember a backlash of this proportion when Jordan announced during game 2 of the ALCS that he was retiring from Basketball to try his hand at Baseball?

The Whitesox were playing and it was the Whitesox he was joining.  It overshadowed the AL series but it was good press for the WhiteSox. 

I think the bigger issue here is not that it was a major announcement during the Series but that it was Yankee related news on the day the Red Sox won the world series.  That is what got Gammon's upset.

MLB should have learned from it's lessons with Curt Flood, you can't control players.  They are not slaves.  And individuals and their agents are not required to abide by your rules. 

I see nothing different about what Jordan did than what A-Rod did.  MLB and Gammons need to chill out.  That announcement has kept baseball on the front pages for a few days longer than an anticlimactic world series.

so, if you don't like a rule, just ignore it if it suits you.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

so, if you don't like a rule, just ignore it if it suits you.

Jim, it's a sad statement but abiding rules/laws now equates to limiting one's own success.  Rules and Laws are for us poor schmucks who think there is more to life than winning or making the most money.  I used to be relatively disinterested in A-Rod.  I'm growing to loathe him, his attitude toward the game, and the influence he has on others who want the same type of "success" he has achieved. 

[pravata]

...  MLB and Gammons need to chill out.  That announcement has kept baseball on the front pages for a few days longer than an anticlimactic world series.

Absolutely.  Baseball can't do anything to either of them anyway, so why care about being polite, or honest, or even merely civil?  Dodgers and Yankees said they'd hold off on any announcements... feh..., losers... Fuck them, right?  Fine, But, then, Boras tries to apologize when he obviously didn't mean it.   If you're going to be slimy, at least embrace it.

[Mr. Happy]

Absolutely.  Baseball can't do anything to either of them anyway, so why care about being polite, or honest, or even merely civil?  Dodgers and Yankees said they'd hold off on any announcements... feh..., losers... Fuck them, right?  Fine, But, then, Boras tries to apologize when he obviously didn't mean it.   If you're going to be slimy, at least embrace it.

Bingo. I think that Boras did it on purpose.

[pravata]

Bingo. I think that Boras did it on purpose.

I'm positive he did.  Either that or he has a dialing disorder combined with a wierd form of Tourette's.  Seriously, Baseball can't touch him, why is he pretending to be sorry?

[BizidyDizidy]

I'm positive he did.  Either that or he has a dialing disorder combined with a wierd form of Tourette's.  Seriously, Baseball can't touch him, why is he pretending to be sorry?

PR for ARod?

[pravata]

PR for ARod?

Again, why.

[Mr. Happy]

I'm positive he did.  Either that or he has a dialing disorder combined with a wierd form of Tourette's.  Seriously, Baseball can't touch him, why is he pretending to be sorry?

I didn't think that he was very sincere. I think that he may have been making fun of them again.

[Holly]

PR for ARod?

He wants to go to Puerto Rico, let him. Wasn't he prepared to represent them in that World Cup baseball thingy?

[HurricaneDavid]

so, if you don't like a rule, just ignore it if it suits you.

Is it really a rule if there is no punishment for breaking it?

[BizidyDizidy]

Again, why.

Because he desperately and unhealthily wants to be loved?

[pravata]

Is it really a rule if there is no punishment for breaking it?

Some people obey the rules not because they are worried about getting caught, but because they feel like they have obligations to other people.  Suckers.

[MusicMan]

Because he desperately and unhealthily wants to be loved?

While this is likely true, it is not Boras' concern - the loss of potential advertising dollars is.

[pravata]

Because he desperately and unhealthily wants to be loved?

Hence the pole dancer.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Some people obey the rules not because they are worried about getting caught, but because they feel like they have obligations to other people.  Suckers.

No, no, it's because we are trying to convince those in our measly little world that we are made out of gold and can't be sold....  But "suckers" sums it up pretty well too.

[Duman]

so, if you don't like a rule, just ignore it if it suits you.

Who is the rule for?  It is for the teams.  Scottie B isn't a team, he is an agent.  He can ignore a rule that doesn't apply to him.

Was it tacky? Yes.  Self serving? Yes.  Calculated? Yes.  I don't see that he broke a rule unless it is somewhere in the CBA that players agents can't make announcements at certain times, he didn't break a rule.

I can't believe I am defending Scott B., but his job is to get maximum revenue and maximum exposure for his client.  You may question if the move will have more negative exposure than positive exposure.

If the red sox were interested, do you think they would let the timing of the announcement stop them from negotiating with him?

[pravata]

Who is the rule for?  It is for the teams.  Scottie B isn't a team, he is an agent.  He can ignore a rule that doesn't apply to him.

Was it tacky? Yes.  Self serving? Yes.  Calculated? Yes.  I don't see that he broke a rule unless it is somewhere in the CBA that players agents can't make announcements at certain times, he didn't break a rule.

I can't believe I am defending Scott B., but his job is to get maximum revenue and maximum exposure for his client.  You may question if the move will have more negative exposure than positive exposure.

If the red sox were interested, do you think they would let the timing of the announcement stop them from negotiating with him?

Why should anyone defend him?  Why should he apologize?  Why should he care?  If a person acts like a slimy rat bastard what right do they have to complain about being called a slimy rat bastard?

From the recent New Yorker article,

Boras serves his rich and cosseted clientele with a high-minded sense of purpose, and he has little use for the notion that his tenacity as an advocate is a reflection of soulless greed. (An old baseball acquaintance of his, George Kissell, likes to joke that only eight people will attend Boras’s funeral—“and all eight will be pallbearers.”) Link

Doubtless there will be more than that.  The world is full up with admirers of slimy rat bastards who want to be just like them.   I think it's pretty weak to apologize when called out on it.  Especially when he has no intention of changing.   At least Rodriguez's wife had the guts to tell everyone to fuck off.

[Froback]

I think that is wrong, there will be more than 8 people at Boras' funeral.  Think about how much money he has amassed... There will be a bunch of people there to see if they collect or not.

Now the ultimate final move by him would be having it in his will to be burried with his money, or better, cremated with it, that way no one can take it from him AFTER death either!

[JimR]

Why should anyone defend him?  Why should he apologize?  Why should he care?  If a person acts like a slimy rat bastard what right do they have to complain about being called a slimy rat bastard?

From the recent New Yorker article,

Boras serves his rich and cosseted clientele with a high-minded sense of purpose, and he has little use for the notion that his tenacity as an advocate is a reflection of soulless greed. (An old baseball acquaintance of his, George Kissell, likes to joke that only eight people will attend Boras’s funeral—“and all eight will be pallbearers.”) Link

Doubtless there will be more than that.  The world is full up with admirers of slimy rat bastards who want to be just like them.   I think it's pretty weak to apologize when called out on it.  Especially when he has no intention of changing.   At least Rodriguez's wife had the guts to tell everyone to fuck off.

all of the owners and GMs will attend just to make certain he is dead.

[Astroholic]

all of the owners and GMs will attend just to make certain he is dead.

Can never assume someone is dead.  After all it appears that Tony is back from the stiffs on 24 as a bad guy.

[MusicMan]

Can never assume someone is dead.  After all it appears that Tony is back from the stiffs on 24 as a bad guy.

"Remember the stink the fans raised about Tony not getting the silent clock?  Yeah, we'll just pretend he was never dead, and we knew what he was doing all along."

[MusicMan]

all of the owners and GMs will attend just to make certain he is dead.

They'll bring holy water, garlic, and crucifixes.  And wooden stakes.

[Duman]

all of the owners and GMs will attend just to make certain he is dead.

I had a eccentric neighbor (picture Ms. Piggy wearing a mu mu) who did that once.  They guy who died had robbed the house across the street of building supplies as it was being built.  (Her sister was the wife of the contractor).  The guy was shot robbing another house and she thought the description sounded like the thief she chased out of the neighborhood and sure enough it was him. 

My favorite story on her is she didn't like one of the kids her son was hanging around with so she egged her sons car one night.  He son was hot the next morning and she asked "who do you think could have done that?" He blamed it on the friend she didn't like and the friendship ended right there. 

[Astroholic]

"Remember the stink the fans raised about Tony not getting the silent clock?  Yeah, we'll just pretend he was never dead, and we knew what he was doing all along."

Well I guess if Jack can come back (several times) so can Tony.  Who is next, first President Palmer?  No he has his own show.

[pravata]

all of the owners and GMs will attend just to make certain he is dead.

Most of the owners are nasty pieces of work themselves.

[hillbillyken]

Boras will never die!
The Devil is scared he will sign all the best demonds and start making ridiculus demands for his "clients" to  preform their acts of evil. He will explain that there are so many other evil entities would pay top dollar for such acts. And these guy can preform for eternity! The Devil is smarter that the owners he would never let Boras in and ruinb hell, So Boras will have to live for ever!!!

[VirtualBob]

Boras will never die!
The Devil is scared he will sign all the best demonds and start making ridiculus demands for his "clients" to  preform their acts of evil. He will explain that there are so many other evil entities would pay top dollar for such acts. And these guy can preform for eternity! The Devil is smarter that the owners he would never let Boras in and ruinb hell, So Boras will have to live for ever!!!

Looks like someone got an early start on the celebration.

[Astroholic]

Looks like someone got an early start on the celebration.

It’s too early for the damn pumpkin patch I tell ya.  Tomorrow night.

[VirtualBob]

It’s too early for the damn pumpkin patch I tell ya.  Tomorrow night.

It looked to me like he got sidetracked by the elderberry wine on the way to the pumpkin patch.  He'll be lucky to make it by tomorrow!

[kevwun]

Scott Boras doesn't turn his clients in to greedy, ego maniacs.  They're already like that.  It's why they sign with him in the first place.  They know he will get them the most money and will do whatever it takes to get it.  They don't care where they play so long as they are playing for the highest bidder.  I don't like him or respect him, but I think his clients deserve to be loathed just as much, if not more.

[pravata]

Scott Boras doesn't turn his clients in to greedy, ego maniacs.  They're already like that.  It's why they sign with him in the first place.  They know he will get them the most money and will do whatever it takes to get it.  They don't care where they play so long as they are playing for the highest bidder.  I don't like him or respect him, but I think his clients deserve to be loathed just as much, if not more.

Boras is contemptible, his clients, sending him out as their surrogate and pretending to be above the grubbing, (they just want to "win") are beneath contempt.

[Reuben]

Boras is contemptible, his clients, sending him out as their surrogate and pretending to be above the grubbing, (they just want to "win") are beneath contempt.

Jason Varitek is the only Boras client I can think of who specifically told Scotty B he wanted to go to a certain team (when he was a free agent after 2004- they only negotiated with the Red Sox), although there must have been a few others. By and large, though, his clients seem to completely enable his slimyness on their behalf.

[ValpoCory]

Ausmus is all class.  He waited to break his major announcement until after the World Series.

[BatGirl]

Ausmus is all class.  He waited to break his major announcement until after the World Series.

it's my understanding that he was waiting to file for free agancy...which happens after the series, no?

[BudGirl]

it's my understanding that he was waiting to file for free agancy...which happens after the series, no?

He's still all class.

[HudsonHawk]

Jason Varitek is the only Boras client I can think of who specifically told Scotty B he wanted to go to a certain team (when he was a free agent after 2004- they only negotiated with the Red Sox), although there must have been a few others. By and large, though, his clients seem to completely enable his slimyness on their behalf.

I have it on pretty good authority that when you sign with Boras, you don't have a say in where you go.  That's part of the deal.  Could be different with Varitek because he's been around a long time, but if you sign with Boras now, you're basically saying "I'll take the most money, regardless of the rest of the circumstances".  I have a certain amount of sympathy and understanding for players because most are pretty naive of the business side of the equation when they start out and rely heavily on their agents for guidance.  But you know what you're getting with Boras, so that pretty much goes out the window. 

[Astroholic]

I have it on pretty good authority that when you sign with Boras, you don't have a say in where you go.  That's part of the deal.  Could be different with Varitek because he's been around a long time, but if you sign with Boras now, you're basically saying "I'll take the most money, regardless of the rest of the circumstances".  I have a certain amount of sympathy and understanding for players because most are pretty naive of the business side of the equation when they start out and rely heavily on their agents for guidance.  But you know what you're getting with Boras, so that pretty much goes out the window. 

didnt Houston offer The Jackal slightly more money than the mess?

[Taras Bulba]

didnt Houston offer The Jackal slightly more money than the mess?

My recollection is that it was sort of a moving target designed to use Houston as a means to extract more generous terms from the steM.  With the tax considerations, many thought Houston's offer was at least as generous.

[Astroholic]

My recollection is that it was sort of a moving target designed to use Houston as a means to extract more generous terms from the steM.  With the tax considerations, many thought Houston's offer was at least as generous.

I think Carlos never had any intentions of signing with Houston, regardless of the offer.

[Taras Bulba]

I think Carlos never had any intentions of signing with Houston, regardless of the offer.

Maybe not.  As Hudson pointed out, even if he had wanted to stay in Houston, he was going where Boras told him.

[HudsonHawk]

My recollection is that it was sort of a moving target designed to use Houston as a means to extract more generous terms from the steM.  With the tax considerations, many thought Houston's offer was at least as generous.

Tax considerations may not be as big a deal as you might think, at least in this particular case.  For one, they don't enter into Boras's mind, as his personal liability is irrespective of the player's.  Maybe not the best for the player, but Boras could give a shit.  He's only looking at the total dollars on the contract.  Secondly, if Beltran still claimed residence in Puerto Rico, which I believe he did, it's not simply a matter of New York vs. Texas.  There is the matter of Puerto Rico taxes, foreign tax credits, etc.  Thirdly, how the signing bonus is structured plays a big part in the tax portion of it.  Traditionally, a player pays the tax rate of his "home" state or country on the signing bonus, not his work state, as it is not considered compensation (though this is starting to change).  So depending on how the bonus, salary, residence, etc are structured, the tax implication can get pretty convoluted and may not be so straightforward.

[HudsonHawk]

I think Carlos never had any intentions of signing with Houston, regardless of the offer.

Word on the street is, Boras filtered all information flowing to Beltran, and he (Boras) simply screened out what he didn't want Beltran to hear.  When you only get one offer, it's a pretty easy decision. 

[pravata]

didnt Houston offer The Jackal slightly more money than the mess?

http://www.orangewhoopass.com/forums/index.php?topic=88582.msg88681#msg88681 scroll towards the bottom

[Noe]

Word on the street is, Boras filtered all information flowing to Beltran, and he (Boras) simply screened out what he didn't want Beltran to hear.  When you only get one offer, it's a pretty easy decision. 

He also allowed the Mets to come to Puerto Rico to visit with Beltran.  He did not allow the Astros the same, even though they asked for the face time.

[pravata]

He also allowed the Mets to come to Puerto Rico to visit with Beltran.  He did not allow the Astros the same, even though they asked for the face time.

The Mets were also allowed to call Beltran every day.  Boras wouldn't return Mclane's calls for weeks at a time.  The whole thing was a fraud.

[das]

It looked to me like he got sidetracked by the elderberry wine on the way to the pumpkin patch.  He'll be lucky to make it by tomorrow!

Mmmmm, elderberry wine.

8pm last night, das, wife of das and all the das-ites were lined up to watch Charles M. Schultz's hallowed retelling of the Great Pumpkin fable.  Tonight is when I sit out in the pumpkin patch drinking my elderberry wine, waiting on the Great Pumpkin and ruminating on the run up to the holiday season.

I'm still impatiently waiting for my first Christmas commercial on the tube or radio.  I think I'll go pull out the Christmas light strings and check for burnt out bulbs.  It's the most wonderful time of the year...

[Noe]

The Mets were also allowed to call Beltran every day.  Boras wouldn't return Mclane's calls for weeks at a time.  The whole thing was a fraud.

In the end, Boras pulled a fast one on McLane, asking for an eleventh hour no-trade concession.  When McLane said he had reservations about that, Boras went to Beltran and told him Houston would not make that concession.  If this was a part of what Beltran was looking for, it should've been communicated along with the seven year, 112 million parameter that Boras told everyone.  Beltran was under the impression that Houston knew and rejected the concession.  He told his friends that he would play for Houston if they had given him the no-trade clause... a Boras slight of hand as the best case scenario.

BTW - who will bid for A-Rod given how out of control Boras has gotten?

Yankees?  They already said "no thanks".

Boston?  Larry Luccino is already on record as saying he would never want to negotiate with Boras when he (Boras) has all the leverage.  Boston has Lowell as their leverage if need be, so they don't even need to entertain Boras' bullshit if they don't want to.  The Dice-K and Varitek situations is eggszactly how one wants to position themselves in a Boras negotiations.  Have some leverage.

Chicago (NL?) 300 million already spent and now spend on top of that for the most expensive player in the world?  The Cubbie owner, whoever it may be will want to think long and hard on that one.

LA?  They're going young and it's working for them.  But maybe they have enough money and desire... I dunno.

Anaheim?  The owner (a Hispanic man) may want to jump in, but he would be wise to understand the whole "leverage" thing when dealing with Boras.

Texas?  Hey, it's Tom Hicks and he's always good for a spin around the money tree with Boras.

[MusicMan]

BTW - who will bid for A-Rod given how out of control Boras has gotten?

Don't count out two NL East teams: the Phillies and They-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named-But-Did-Choke-This-Year.

ARod-Rollins-Utley-Howard would be one hell of an infield.

[VirtualBob]

... , the tax implication can get pretty convoluted and may not be so straightforward.

Both those things?  At the very same time??  Who'd a thunk.

[BatGirl]

He's still all class.

i totally agree.

[Astroholic]

The Mets were also allowed to call Beltran every day.  Boras wouldn't return Mclane's calls for weeks at a time.  The whole thing was a fraud.

I guess my point is, is it always just about the money?  If Houston was offering 10y 115mm over Mess 10y 112mm, do you think he would have come to Houston?  I don't.  I think Boras wants his clients in the biggest markets he can find for them.  Ego stroking is not always about money.  He also likes to screw with people.  So I am really wondering why A-Rod opted out, because who is going to pay more than the Yanks.  Does Boras get all of his money up front?  If the player does not finish his contract (i.e. opts out), does Boras get paid again because a new contract is neg. (kind of like a signing bonus in the NFL), or does he get paid as contract is played out?  All of this might not make a damn bit of since to anyone but me.

[pravata]

I guess my point is, is it always just about the money?  If Houston was offering 10y 115mm over Mess 10y 112mm, do you think he would have come to Houston?  I don't.  I think Boras wants his clients in the biggest markets he can find for them.  Ego stroking is not always about money.  He also likes to screw with people.  So I am really wondering why A-Rod opted out, because who is going to pay more than the Yanks.  Does Boras get all of his money up front?  If the player does not finish his contract (i.e. opts out), does Boras get paid again because a new contract is neg. (kind of like a signing bonus in the NFL), or does he get paid as contract is played out?  All of this might not make a damn bit of since to anyone but me.

We'll never know.  Because the Mets did offer more than the Astros and were in fact the only team to offer $112 million, Boras' stated minimum to enter negotiations for Beltran. 

[Astroholic]

We'll never know.  Because the Mets did offer more than the Astros and were in fact the only team to offer $112 million, Boras' stated minimum to enter negotiations for Beltran. 

K, fair enough.

What is the starting minimum for A_Rod going to be?  Who will pay it?  What about Andrew Jones?  This is going to be another fun offseason.

[Noe]

I guess my point is, is it always just about the money?  If Houston was offering 10y 115mm over Mess 10y 112mm, do you think he would have come to Houston?  I don't.  I think Boras wants his clients in the biggest markets he can find for them.  Ego stroking is not always about money.  He also likes to screw with people.  So I am really wondering why A-Rod opted out, because who is going to pay more than the Yanks.  Does Boras get all of his money up front?  If the player does not finish his contract (i.e. opts out), does Boras get paid again because a new contract is neg. (kind of like a signing bonus in the NFL), or does he get paid as contract is played out?  All of this might not make a damn bit of since to anyone but me.

Two words: Texas Rangers.  The Mets were going to be the highest bidder regardless, but Boras needed Houston as leverage just in case the Mets had any idea of calling the shots.  All the visits to PR were about the courting part of the negotiation ("we'll have no patty fingers here now!").  Boras does more market research than any other agent, so he knew who had the money and who he could maneuver into playing the part of the patsy.  The player is just along for the ride.

It's about money.  Period.

[BudGirl]

They-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named-But-Did-Choke-This-Year.

Where would they play him?  Replace David Wright?  Put him back at SS?  Move him to second?

[Bench]

Where would they play him?  Replace David Wright?  Put him back at SS?  Move him to second?

Moving Wright to second or to left is the idea.

[T. J.]

Where would they play him?  Replace David Wright?  Put him back at SS?  Move him to second?

Move David Wright to second, probably.  http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2007/10/31/2007-10-31_mets_tell_david_wright_to_keep_quiet_abo.html

[MusicMan]

Moving Wright to second or to left is the idea.

Correct.  Wright has previously offered to move to 2b to make this happen.

[Trey]

Correct.  Wright has previously offered to move to 2b to make this happen.

Does that move happen a lot?  Jeff Kent springs to mind, but he isn't exactly regarded as a great defensive 2B.

[kevwun]

Stark said this morning he though Detroit would be a player for Arod.  He said their front office is one of the few Boras gets along with.

[T. J.]

Does that move happen a lot?  Jeff Kent springs to mind, but he isn't exactly regarded as a great defensive 2B.

Ryne Sandberg's first full year in the majors was spent mostly at third before moving to second in his second season, but that's about the only other one I can think of off the top of my head.

[Noe]

K, fair enough.

What is the starting minimum for A_Rod going to be?  Who will pay it?  What about Andrew Jones?  This is going to be another fun offseason.

30 million per year, I heard 8-10 years minimum.  Hey, here is Drayton McLane's chance to prove once and for all he wants to be a champion... right?

[Noe]

Stark said this morning he though Detroit would be a player for Arod.  He said their front office is one of the few Boras gets along with.

Actually, they saved Boras' arse when he could not get anyone to bite on Pudge Rodriquez (Anaheim, LA, New York, et. al.).  They came in late and offered some decent money for Pudge to keep the player from taking the agent out back and shooting him!

If that is what Stark means by "gets along", I assume all bets are off when Boras has A-Rod and leverage on his side.  Be very careful Detroit.

[MusicMan]

Stark said this morning he though Detroit would be a player for Arod.  He said their front office is one of the few Boras gets along with.

I wouldn't rule it out, but I thought the move for Renteria had reduced the chances of this.

[kevwun]

Stark did talk about the Tigers bailing Boras out with the Pudge deal.  He also said Boras represents Magglio Ordonez.

[Astroholic]

30 million per year, I heard 8-10 years minimum.  Hey, here is Drayton McLane's chance to prove once and for all he wants to be a champion... right?

I know you are joking but for the record, No way do I endorse an A-Rod-stros partnership, not that I have to worry about it much.  

[JackAstro]

Does that move happen a lot?  Jeff Kent springs to mind, but he isn't exactly regarded as a great defensive 2B.

Trey, you need to review your own post on the fabled Defensive Spectrum. As can clearly be seen, 3B and 2B are entirely interchangeable (I think).

[Ty in Tampa]

As can clearly be seen, 3B and 2B are entirely interchangeable (I think).

Much like Ho-Hos and Ding Dongs.

[T. J.]

Much like Ho-Hos and Ding Dongs.

Thanks for the reset of that thread.  I've found my new signature.

[HudsonHawk]

Thanks for the reset of that thread.  I've found my new signature.

I'm partial to the famous Breedlove line..."Ho-Ho's are Ding Dongs' bitch".

[Trey]

Trey, you need to review your own post on the fabled Defensive Spectrum. As can clearly be seen, 3B and 2B are entirely interchangeable (I think).

I thought the result of that thread was further confirmation that I know nothing about baseball and should end all posts with a question rather than statement.  I have learned much since that day.  For example, if I were starting that today it would say "Is this kind of interesting?   Am I kind of a dumbass?"

By the way, who do I have to "thank" for the search feature on this site.  Used to be when you said something stupid you gave your mea culpas, layed low for a while and everyone forgot.  Now it gets drug up years later to use to humiliate you.  So, yeah.  Thanks a lot.

[Ty in Tampa]

Come on, Trey. We all know that was comic genius disguised as naiveté. Stop being so humble.

[MusicMan]

I know you are joking but for the record, No way do I endorse an A-Rod-stros partnership, not that I have to worry about it much.  

BP has weighed in on each team's chances of getting the mighty Rod:

6. Astros – There’s really no incumbent at third base, they’re willing to spend money, and he probably gets them back into playoff contention. I doubt that A-Rod would want to return to Texas, but otherwise it makes some sense.

[pravata]

BP has weighed in on each team's chances of getting the mighty Rod:

According to McTaggart, Wade said the club has no interest in getting involved in the sweepstakes for Alex Rodriguez.  "I would say at this point that probably wouldn't be an area we would pursue,"  link The Mongoose is a coy one.

[MusicMan]

The Mongoose is a coy one.

Indeed.  Also important to note that the Mongoose preys on snakes.

[Froback]

Indeed.  Also important to note that the Mongoose preys on snakes.

Wait, so he is going to make a deal with Arizona?!?!  Who is he targetting?

[MusicMan]

Wait, so he is going to make a deal with Arizona?!?!  Who is he targetting?

I was actually thinking of Boras.  I would call that unfair to snakes, but I'm of the Indiana Jones school of thought on snakes.

[Noe]

Stark did talk about the Tigers bailing Boras out with the Pudge deal.  He also said Boras represents Magglio Ordonez.

Same deal, Detroit was kind enough to keep the agent from failing miserably with his ploy(s) on those two FA's.  I was hoping that Boras would have to face the shame that no MLB bit on his late hour tatics and let his boys become unemployed (and disgruntled).

One can only dream sometimes.

[Noe]

BP has weighed in on each team's chances of getting the mighty Rod:

I can see Arte Moreno making a splash and landing A-Rod for Anaheim.  Boras will use any and all leverage he can to get Moreno to bend over like every other owner has to date.  This is going to be a very expensive experience for good ol' Art, but in the end he'll have his A-Rod.

Dodgers?   Two words: Kevin Brown.

[Reuben]

I can see Arte Moreno making a splash and landing A-Rod for Anaheim.  Boras will use any and all leverage he can to get Moreno to bend over like every other owner has to date.  This is going to be a very expensive experience for good ol' Art, but in the end he'll have his A-Rod.

Dodgers?   Two words: Kevin Brown.

Darren Dreifort.

[Froback]

I have no doubt someone will sign A-Rod, so I don't think we will see the boarderline panic stuff that we say with Magglio or Pudge.  That being said, I just want to see A-Rod get paid less in 08 than the 27 Mil he was due based on the contract he opted out of.

I think that would be enough to potentially cool Boras a bit.

But I think any team that does sign him should make the first rule be, "No opt outs".  After all this crap, I would even not allow him to have a no trade, especially if I am going to give in and pay him that obscene amount Boras is asking for.

It would also be the most clause layden contract in history.  With fines for even mentioning Free Agency or wanting to be traded or anything negative about the club, city or state you are in.  And that just for starters.

You want me to waste 1/3+ of my payroll on just you, you are going to be my bitch for the life of the contract!

[Noe]

I have no doubt someone will sign A-Rod, so I don't think we will see the boarderline panic stuff that we say with Magglio or Pudge.  That being said, I just want to see A-Rod get paid less in 08 than the 27 Mil he was due based on the contract he opted out of.

I think that would be enough to potentially cool Boras a bit.

But I think any team that does sign him should make the first rule be, "No opt outs".  After all this crap, I would even not allow him to have a no trade, especially if I am going to give in and pay him that obscene amount Boras is asking for.

It would also be the most clause layden contract in history.  With fines for even mentioning Free Agency or wanting to be traded or anything negative about the club, city or state you are in.  And that just for starters.

You want me to waste 1/3+ of my payroll on just you, you are going to be my bitch for the life of the contract!

How eggszactly would a club be able to dictate anything to Boras when he holds all the leverage?  If there is any sort of leverage on the side of the club, the players union would immediately scream "collusion" and that would be the end of any strong stance by the club.  If someone wants A-Rod, it would be under Boras' terms and nothing less.

[Astroholic]

How eggszactly would a club be able to dictate anything to Boras when he holds all the leverage?  If there is any sort of leverage on the side of the club, the players union would immediately scream "collusion" and that would be the end of any strong stance by the club.  If someone wants A-Rod, it would be under Boras' terms and nothing less.

But what if no one wants him under Boras terms?

[BUWebguy]

Boras: "Yankees, please talk to me"
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-yankees-rodriguez&prov=ap&type=lgns

[Astroholic]

Boras: "Yankees, please talk to me"
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-yankees-rodriguez&prov=ap&type=lgns

So Hicks has an extra 30mm sitting around burning a hole in his pocket....Hmmmm!  Isn’t that what started all of this insanity in the first place?

[pravata]

Boras: "Yankees, please talk to me"
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-yankees-rodriguez&prov=ap&type=lgns

Boras is creating doubt.  He got some reporters to mention the Tigers too, but, "Detroit general manager Dave Dombrowski said it would not be accurate to say the Tigers were in the mix for A-Rod."  But don't be surprised when Boras hints that the Tigers and the Yankees are "negotiating".  This is all for the Angels benefit.  Suckers. 

[ybbodeus]

To Hudson's discussion of tax implications from page 3......was the city of Philadelphia successful in its efforts to institute a tax on the players of visiting teams?  And, if so, have other cities followed successfully followed suit?  Seems like they were trying to pattern it after what performers are charged when they come to a city....licenses/fees/etc., but it's been a few years since I heard that proposed.  Just wondering. 

[Noe]

But what if no one wants him under Boras terms?

"If someone wants A-Rod, it would be under Boras' terms and nothing less." - me, earlier.

Again, it all depends if a club wants A-Rod... you get Boras' terms along with A-Rod.  You don't want Boras' terms?  You don't want A-Rod.  Simple as that.

[Noe]

Boras is creating doubt.  He got some reporters to mention the Tigers too, but, "Detroit general manager Dave Dombrowski said it would not be accurate to say the Tigers were in the mix for A-Rod."  But don't be surprised when Boras hints that the Tigers and the Yankees are "negotiating".  This is all for the Angels benefit.  Suckers.

EGGSZACTLY!

[Astroholic]

"If someone wants A-Rod, it would be under Boras' terms and nothing less." - me, earlier.

Again, it all depends if a club wants A-Rod... you get Boras' terms along with A-Rod.  You don't want Boras' terms?  You don't want A-Rod.  Simple as that.

I understand what you are saying.  What I am saying is that just maybe the owners (all of them) are smart enough not to give Boras what he wants (I know it is highly doubtful).  Doesn’t that mean Boras will have to nego. for less than initial demand?  Will A-Rod sit out because of lack of interest in meeting Boras' outlandish demands? 

Boras has been able to do it before (A-Rod, Beltran, etc.), looking forward to see what happens this year.

[Noe]

I understand what you are saying.  What I am saying is that just maybe the owners (all of them) are smart enough not to give Boras what he wants (I know it is highly doubtful).  Doesn’t that mean Boras will have to nego. for less than initial demand?  Will A-Rod sit out because of lack of interest in meeting Boras' outlandish demands? 

Boras has been able to do it before (A-Rod, Beltran, etc.), looking forward to see what happens this year.

If the owners talk to each other about not giving in, then it's collusion and they're in much bigger trouble.  If the owners all came to the same conclusion independent of one another and said "holy crap, that's insane", then it's okay, Boras is neutralized.  Now, how likely is it that the latter will happen?  All Boras needs is one single solitary owner willing to pony up.  He can used the others like pravata has mentioned, but he really only needs one owner who is eyeing his client with lustful glares.

He knows who said owner fits that criteria, so he's asking for what he knows he can get from him... everyone else be damned.

[Duke]

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/slow_month_in_baseball_saved_by_a

The onion's take on the annoucement.

[Froback]

"If someone wants A-Rod, it would be under Boras' terms and nothing less." - me, earlier.

Again, it all depends if a club wants A-Rod... you get Boras' terms along with A-Rod.  You don't want Boras' terms?  You don't want A-Rod.  Simple as that.

I guess my point is the owner(s) who can afford the payroll demands Boras is throwing out for A-Rod do have a little leverage as he has burned his bridges with a couple of them, notably in Texas and NY.  And Boston I think wants Lowell back after his performance this year.  So that really leaves Cubs, Mets, Angels and Dodgers as being real players in all of this.    Very few other clubs can meet the 30Mil demand.

Also because A-Rod was due $27 Mil next season in the deal he opted out of, in order to save face Boras needs to at least get that much from a team for 08, and we all know the 1st year of contracts are usually the low water mark of the annual compensation in contacts.  So we are probably looking at them targeting something along the lines of 5 years and $160 Mil or so.

Now if that is what they are looking at, these few clubs can go, "Ok, we will agree to your figures, IF you agree to all these other things..." those might include stuff like no opt out clauses, no "no trade" clauses.  Stuff that would put the club in a bit more control than what he had in the last contract.  

I think it is all part of that give and take.  I think this is where clubs are at, as they have seen the scorched earth with little results (from a team perspective) everywhere A-Rod has been.   His individual numbers are too good for them to say no way, even at $30+ Mil per year for those clubs, but I figure they will be doing more to protect themselves given his (or Boras') history.

Just my thought.  If the owner who signs him doesn't do at least that much, or doesn't sign him for less than Boras' is asking for, they are idiots.

[Noe]

I guess my point is the owner(s) who can afford the payroll demands Boras is throwing out for A-Rod do have a little leverage as he has burned his bridges with a couple of them, notably in Texas and NY.  And Boston I think wants Lowell back after his performance this year.  So that really leaves Cubs, Mets, Angels and Dodgers as being real players in all of this.    Very few other clubs can meet the 30Mil demand.

Also because A-Rod was due $27 Mil next season in the deal he opted out of, in order to save face Boras needs to at least get that much from a team for 08, and we all know the 1st year of contracts are usually the low water mark of the annual compensation in contacts.  So we are probably looking at them targeting something along the lines of 5 years and $160 Mil or so.

Now if that is what they are looking at, these few clubs can go, "Ok, we will agree to your figures, IF you agree to all these other things..." those might include stuff like no opt out clauses, no "no trade" clauses.  Stuff that would put the club in a bit more control than what he had in the last contract. 

I think it is all part of that give and take.  I think this is where clubs are at, as they have seen the scorched earth with little results (from a team perspective) everywhere A-Rod has been.   His individual numbers are too good for them to say no way, even at $30+ Mil per year for those clubs, but I figure they will be doing more to protect themselves given his (or Boras') history.

Just my thought.  If the owner who signs him doesn't do at least that much, or doesn't sign him for less than Boras' is asking for, they are idiots.

All Boras wants is one team that covets A-Rod.  Just one.  And he's got everything he needs to make his demands.  The only time Boras is nuetralized is when it's not a free agent situation and he cannot create market pressure.  That means arbitration hearings and in the case of Dice-K, a take it or leave it approach.  In free agency, Scott Boras has all the leverage and you must come to him with your money at the level he sets, else don't bother.

So the question is really this: who wants A-Rod?  The answer to that will tell you who pays the demands that Scott Boras has set.  It really is that simple.

[Froback]

I always wondered about Collusion.

If say the Twins and Royals convinced the Angels (for example) to not give him more than $30 Million a year, citing it would set a precident of average salary's to exceed what their market can handle (even with revenue sharing).  Is the Collusion, since the Twins and Royals have ZERO plans to sign A-Rod?

It is not like they are trying to deny work.  It would actually be more along the lines of MLBs slotting system for drafted players.  It can be requests and recommended, and you can be chastised for not following the "guidelines" but in the end you have to make your own choice.  How is this any different than that?

[Noe]

I always wondered about Collusion.

If say the Twins and Royals convinced the Angels (for example) to not give him more than $30 Million a year, citing it would set a precident of average salary's to exceed what their market can handle (even with revenue sharing).  Is the Collusion, since the Twins and Royals have ZERO plans to sign A-Rod?

It is not like they are trying to deny work.  It would actually be more along the lines of MLBs slotting system for drafted players.  It can be requests and recommended, and you can be chastised for not following the "guidelines" but in the end you have to make your own choice.  How is this any different than that?

Collective Bargaining Agreement.  See, the MLB and MLBPA *agree* to the parameters with which to work under in all facets.  To go against that agreement by conspiring to circumvent the parameters is collusion.  If the MLBPA *agreed* to how drafted players can be slotted, there is no collusion happening.

And when collusion is proven, it has major implication.  Labor laws come into play and the owner fear the loss of the antitrust exemption.  All messy stuff they'd rather avoid.

[Astroholic]

I always wondered about Collusion.

If say the Twins and Royals convinced the Angels (for example) to not give him more than $30 Million a year, citing it would set a precident of average salary's to exceed what their market can handle (even with revenue sharing).  Is the Collusion, since the Twins and Royals have ZERO plans to sign A-Rod?

It is not like they are trying to deny work.  It would actually be more along the lines of MLBs slotting system for drafted players.  It can be requests and recommended, and you can be chastised for not following the "guidelines" but in the end you have to make your own choice.  How is this any different than that?

And Boras can easily scream of collusion, but nothing can be done when he is using teams (and a bucket full of manipulation and lies) to artificially inflate the market for his client.  I don't think owners with business (or any other) since will deal with him any longer. (I think that is why Willy T is gone and remember when C. Lee said Boras was going to represent him and recanted a few days later..Hmmmmm)

[Noe]

And Boras can easily scream of collusion, but nothing can be done when he is using teams (and a bucket full of manipulation and lies) to artificially inflate the market for his client.  I don't think owners with business (or any other) since will deal with him any longer. (I think that is why Willy T is gone and remember when C. Lee said Boras was going to represent him and recanted a few days later..Hmmmmm)

Again, if the owners agreed to the parameters set forth in the CBA, they cannot go against it.  It's illegal and can create a lot of havoc for them.  Agents like Boras work within the parameters set forth in free agency and any owner wanting to negotiate with Boras when he is representing a top tier player *during* free agency is on his own.

He goes in eyes wide open.

[Astroholic]

Again, if the owners agreed to the parameters set forth in the CBA, they cannot go against it.  It's illegal and can create a lot of havoc for them.  Agents like Boras work within the parameters set forth in free agency and any owner wanting to negotiate with Boras when he is representing a top tier player *during* free agency is on his own.

He goes in eyes wide open.

k.  Done.