Author Topic: Top 10 Discussion thread  (Read 7626 times)

Jacksonian

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Top 10 Discussion thread
« on: January 29, 2007, 11:58:05 am »
We thought we'd encourage top 10 discussion in its own thread again this year.  So, please post your top 10 thoughts, questions, and absurdities here.  Also, tell us what you like and didn't like and would like to see in next year's top 10.
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Duman

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Re: Top 10 Discussion thread
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2007, 01:54:47 pm »
Thanks for the good work on the list.  I liked the position rankings as well.  It helps to get a good picture view of the depth of the system.
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Jacksonian

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Re: Top 10 Discussion thread
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2007, 02:03:26 pm »
Quote:

the depth of the system.




Or lack thereof.  And, you're welcome.
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Froback

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Re: Top 10 Discussion thread
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2007, 03:53:37 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

the depth of the system.




Or lack thereof.  And, you're welcome.




no doubt.

I love the insight beyond the numbers on each of these guys.  Really helps others (like me) who are not tapped into anything beyond the web.

I wonder where you have Towles.  Going into 06 he was getting lots of pub.  So was it mostly because of his attitude or injury issues.  Or flat out to he plateau (or appear to) last season?

Reason I ask about him, is it seemed that was one many of us who entered had in their top 10, yet yours did not.  I figure he is still in the grey 11-13 slots you mention in the report.

BTW, it is scary how empty this system is.  But I like the potential some of those Lefties that were picked up last year.  Also looks like the Academies might be producing more return than the draft recently... not sure what that means.

Jacksonian

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Re: Top 10 Discussion thread
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2007, 04:42:15 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

the depth of the system.




Or lack thereof.  And, you're welcome.



no doubt.

I love the insight beyond the numbers on each of these guys.  Really helps others (like me) who are not tapped into anything beyond the web.

I wonder where you have Towles.  Going into 06 he was getting lots of pub.  So was it mostly because of his attitude or injury issues.  Or flat out to he plateau (or appear to) last season?

Reason I ask about him, is it seemed that was one many of us who entered had in their top 10, yet yours did not.  I figure he is still in the grey 11-13 slots you mention in the report.

BTW, it is scary how empty this system is.  But I like the potential some of those Lefties that were picked up last year.  Also looks like the Academies might be producing more return than the draft recently... not sure what that means.




We really didn't try to rank beyond 1-10.  But, considering the lack of talent Towles would likely be 10-15.  His injury is bothersome, catchers and knees.  Durability is now a factor for him.  He did hit well and that's fine, but he's got to stay healthy and play a full season.  If he can't, but he still hits, I'd look for a position change.

Re Academies:  They are awfully far away from the bigs.  There seems to be some talent coming out of there, but considering how far they have to go the washout rate is very high.  Also it's hard to evalute drafts after just a season or 2.
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Duman

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Re: Top 10 Discussion thread
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2007, 05:17:12 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

the depth of the system.




Or lack thereof.  And, you're welcome.



no doubt.

I love the insight beyond the numbers on each of these guys.  Really helps others (like me) who are not tapped into anything beyond the web.

I wonder where you have Towles.  Going into 06 he was getting lots of pub.  So was it mostly because of his attitude or injury issues.  Or flat out to he plateau (or appear to) last season?

Reason I ask about him, is it seemed that was one many of us who entered had in their top 10, yet yours did not.  I figure he is still in the grey 11-13 slots you mention in the report.

BTW, it is scary how empty this system is.  But I like the potential some of those Lefties that were picked up last year.  Also looks like the Academies might be producing more return than the draft recently... not sure what that means.




We really didn't try to rank beyond 1-10.  But, considering the lack of talent Towles would likely be 10-15.  His injury is bothersome, catchers and knees.  Durability is now a factor for him.  He did hit well and that's fine, but he's got to stay healthy and play a full season.  If he can't, but he still hits, I'd look for a position change.






I have personally wondered if Towles might be a Biggio type.
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Duman

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Re: Top 10 Discussion thread
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2007, 05:18:45 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

the depth of the system.




Or lack thereof.  And, you're welcome.





The 05 draft is looking awful.  It was a young draft but most of those guys are sucking wind for the most part.
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Jacksonian

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Re: Top 10 Discussion thread
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2007, 05:51:06 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

the depth of the system.




Or lack thereof.  And, you're welcome.




The 05 draft is looking awful.  It was a young draft but most of those guys are sucking wind for the most part.




I count 10 guys from that draft who could make the bigs in one capacity or other if everything goes right. Reid Kelly is very raw with a good arm. Blazek and Lapinski could be lefty bullpen arms.  Mitchell still has a good arm. Fairchild stepped up more than anyone last season. Flores was 20 all of last season at low-A and still developing. Manzella has been great defensively and *might* have a little more bat than Everett. Henriquez is a young catcher. I'd give him lots of time to develop. Iorg is coming into a big year. If he hits in 2007 like he did late last year, he'll put himself in the right field mix in 09.  Bogusevic pitched well to end last season.  Durability. If he proves it, he's a keeper.
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Jacksonian

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Re: Top 10 Discussion thread
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2007, 05:53:40 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

the depth of the system.




Or lack thereof.  And, you're welcome.



no doubt.

I love the insight beyond the numbers on each of these guys.  Really helps others (like me) who are not tapped into anything beyond the web.

I wonder where you have Towles.  Going into 06 he was getting lots of pub.  So was it mostly because of his attitude or injury issues.  Or flat out to he plateau (or appear to) last season?

Reason I ask about him, is it seemed that was one many of us who entered had in their top 10, yet yours did not.  I figure he is still in the grey 11-13 slots you mention in the report.

BTW, it is scary how empty this system is.  But I like the potential some of those Lefties that were picked up last year.  Also looks like the Academies might be producing more return than the draft recently... not sure what that means.




We really didn't try to rank beyond 1-10.  But, considering the lack of talent Towles would likely be 10-15.  His injury is bothersome, catchers and knees.  Durability is now a factor for him.  He did hit well and that's fine, but he's got to stay healthy and play a full season.  If he can't, but he still hits, I'd look for a position change.






I have personally wondered if Towles might be a Biggio type.




He's got a good arm and a catcher's reflexes. 3B might be possible.  He'll have to injury his way out of catcher first though.
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Greg D

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Re: Top 10 Discussion thread
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2007, 07:52:41 pm »
Quote:

Reason I ask about him, is it seemed that was one many of us who entered had in their top 10, yet yours did not.




So mebbe we should just run a poll next year on the website and then publish that as the Official Minor Opinions Top Ten? Heck, that would save us a heckuva lotta time.

Okay, that's not quite what you're saying. But as far as basing our work on "consensus" opinion or how others do things, that isn't exactly the way we operate. If we worked under that basis, Towles would have been in our Top Ten easily because we'd use almost exclusively the stats in making our choices and not factor in possible future health and other issues. I would hope you'd expect a little bit more from us. As it was, Towles just barely missed making the Top Ten.
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Uncle Charlie

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Re: Top 10 Discussion thread
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2007, 10:23:58 pm »
Great work guys!  Thanks for the hard work.

What are your thoughts on Lincoln Holdzkom?  Where would he fit amongst the prospects?
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Re: Top 10 Discussion thread
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2007, 11:16:24 pm »
Impressive.  Thanks for the hard work.

The likely staff at Round Rock this year looks pretty promising.  

Although I agree that the position prospects look kind of thin, the wealth of legit pitching prospects is a valuable currency.  If enough of them progress, they can be converted to position players.

I'm also impressed at how the Astros seem adept at acquiring decent pitchers in the later rounds, especially the last two years.  Most will likely falter, but if a few of them make it, that is some excellent value scouting.

Greg D

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Re: Top 10 Discussion thread
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2007, 11:29:07 pm »
Quote:

What are your thoughts on Lincoln Holdzkom?  Where would he fit amongst the prospects?




Always difficult to figure out what to do with rule 5 picks in terms of rankings. In Holdzkom's case, he seems a longshot to stay with the club. Had we decided to include him in our lists, he would have slotted in around #10 among the RHPs.
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Froback

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Re: Top 10 Discussion thread
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2007, 10:54:32 am »
Quote:

Quote:

Reason I ask about him, is it seemed that was one many of us who entered had in their top 10, yet yours did not.




So mebbe we should just run a poll next year on the website and then publish that as the Official Minor Opinions Top Ten? Heck, that would save us a heckuva lotta time.

Okay, that's not quite what you're saying. But as far as basing our work on "consensus" opinion or how others do things, that isn't exactly the way we operate. If we worked under that basis, Towles would have been in our Top Ten easily because we'd use almost exclusively the stats in making our choices and not factor in possible future health and other issues. I would hope you'd expect a little bit more from us. As it was, Towles just barely missed making the Top Ten.




Umm, I like the insight you all bring.  I think you all are more "in the know" than I am, so I trust your rankings alot more than mine.  I was just curious, because he was ranked in the top 10 last year, and most people seemed pretty high on him.  In 06 he ran into a multitude of issues from injury to attitude.  I was just curious about him since almost everyone I looked at in the contest had him.  I am not trying to imply we were right and you were wrong.  Heck I could have asked about anyone not on the list you all made, but seemed like Towles was the one guy that seemed like the obvious "I wonder why he didn't make it?" candidate.  So I asked about him.

I have no issue with the list or the effort you all put in.  I actually enjoy that you all put that much effort into it.  It shows how much you care about it, and I know I appreciate it.

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Re: Top 10 Discussion thread
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2007, 12:54:48 pm »
Great stuff, you should be lobbying for a job with BA.

What ever happened to Mitch Einertson?  Is he even still in the organization?  I seem to recall him having a monster year in Rookie ball and then he seemed to fall off the radar screen shortly after.

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Re: Top 10 Discussion thread
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2007, 01:00:17 pm »
Quote:

Great stuff, you should be lobbying for a job with BA.

What ever happened to Mitch Einertson?  Is he even still in the organization?  I seem to recall him having a monster year in Rookie ball and then he seemed to fall off the radar screen shortly after.





Einerston has some personal demons he has had to deal with since the day he broke into professional baseball.  He was all of 18 going on 19 when he first stepped into the pro ranks.  He hit like a 19 year old going for broke too.  But his off field behavior and his inability to mature fast enough to deal with it all, lead to his going downhill quickly in the organization.

He is also a man without a position, since he's a below average outfielder and when the Astros tried to convert him into a second baseman at Instructional League, it was a disaster.  Mitch is trying to get his head back on straight, so he's got an uphill battle going against him.  He struggled this year because of all that and it wouldn't surprise many if in a few years he is out of baseball entirely.

But he may be able to turn things back around, but it's going to take extra hard work to do it.

Jacksonian

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Re: Top 10 Discussion thread
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2007, 01:24:59 pm »
Quote:

Great stuff, you should be lobbying for a job with BA.




Nah. I really only like covering the Astros.

Quote:

What ever happened to Mitch Einertson?  Is he even still in the organization?  I seem to recall him having a monster year in Rookie ball and then he seemed to fall off the radar screen shortly after.




Check out some of the other articles in MO over the past few years, starting with the 05 top 10.  There was some discussion about him here after that top 10 release.  Essentially we will only say in so many words what Noe wrote and will not give details.
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Re: Top 10 Discussion thread
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2007, 08:41:00 pm »
Jacksonian, again you have referenced an attitude problem  on Towles. Before you get a misconsepition started, please varify your information, check with  Bennett or Godfey, I understand that the year end reports turned in by the coaches and trainer in Lexington shines the light of truth on this subject. We must be professional and please the spin doctors....but you could..... Ask yourself why was Lind removed from a managers role in the last year of a 2 year contract and put in a scouting role.... I'm not going there but...you could also ask yourself why they fired him the first time.
 
More truth ...In 3 years Towles has been out only once... a knee injury from a collision at home plate. He was held out to get him ready for the playoffs and to ensure he would have no lasting reprocusions form that strain. Hell a pitcher gets tendonitis and last year another catcher tears his labrum and its no big deal... what adgenda are you on? There was no mechanical damage just a strained muscle and populis tendon. He's healed and performed well in the off season with no problems.

Those of us outside the lines put a lot of stock in your supposive insite or connections.. are we in error?

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Re: Top 10 Discussion thread
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2007, 09:02:41 pm »
Quote:

Jacksonian, again you have referenced an attitude problem  on Towles. Before you get a misconsepition started, please varify your information, check with  Bennett or Godfey, I understand that the year end reports turned in by the coaches and trainer in Lexington shines the light of truth on this subject. We must be professional and please the spin doctors....but you could..... Ask yourself why was Lind removed from a managers role in the last year of a 2 year contract and put in a scouting role.... I'm not going there but...you could also ask yourself why they fired him the first time.
 
More truth ...In 3 years Towles has been out only once... a knee injury from a collision at home plate. He was held out to get him ready for the playoffs and to ensure he would have no lasting reprocusions form that strain. Hell a pitcher gets tendonitis and last year another catcher tears his labrum and its no big deal... what adgenda are you on? There was no mechanical damage just a strained muscle and populis tendon. He's healed and performed well in the off season with no problems.

Those of us outside the lines put a lot of stock in your supposive insite or connections.. are we in error?





Goddmammit Greg D & Jacksonian!!! Put Towles in your top 10 right now!!!!!!!  Right now!!!!   I will mess you up!!!

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Re: Top 10 Discussion thread
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2007, 09:19:38 pm »
Agenda? If you've failed to notice, we tend to be fairly strong advocates of the Astros' system and its players around here. Even Towles. Perhaps even especially Towles. Catchers who can both hit and play defense gets our you-know-what hard. No one wants him to succeed more than we do. But if the system does have some weaknesses or we have specific concerns about a particular player, we will mention it.

But since you've raised the topic, let's talk about your agenda. Probably 75% of your posts (at least) have involved Towles in some shape or form. You've been asked if you were a relative or friend and you've denied it. We're rather skeptical about that claim (and may be even more to it than that) but that's neither here nor there. Your every single post about Towles is constantly defending him.

As far as the knees go, here's what even  you wrote back in November:

"In the future he will probably stay around 200-205 to keep his speed, quickness and reduce the wear and tear on his knees."

So maybe, just maybe, there is a concern about his knees that even Towles' stauchest defender is willing to acknowledge.
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Greg D

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Re: Top 10 Discussion thread
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2007, 09:59:53 pm »
As far as creating any type of misconception, we're just a littly bitty 'ol Astros fansite. Why do you give a rat's ass about anything we write about? If the facts are as you seem to imply, that mean old Jack Lind was all to blame and J.R. did nothing wrong in getting his butt suspended, why the organization surely knows the truth of the matter doesn't it? The folks who matter would never think that J.R. couldn't have been even a little bit disgruntled at finding himself back in Lex for a second year in a row and because of that might have said something he shouldn't have. That there might have been other things that went on that led up to that incident? Nah, none of that could've happened. Bennett and the other folks in charge know the reeaaal story. And what we here at OWA have to say or think about the matter means diddly squat.

As far as reshuffling of coaching personnel, happens all the time. The vast majority of Lind's 36 years in professional baseball have been spent either as manager, coach or roving instructor. It seems pretty likely that he mastered long ago the ability to deal with players.
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Greg D

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Re: Top 10 Discussion thread
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2007, 09:16:32 am »
Quote:

I was just curious, because he was ranked in the top 10 last year...




Actually, he wasn't.
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Greg D

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Re: Top 10 Discussion thread
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2007, 02:14:30 pm »
If you're so inclined, you can see how our Top Ten matches up with BA's here.
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Re: Top 10 Discussion thread
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2007, 03:12:02 pm »
What do you see as Juan G's chances this spring to make the big club?  If not the big club is a at AAA?
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Jacksonian

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Re: Top 10 Discussion thread
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2007, 03:20:26 pm »
Quote:

What do you see as Juan G's chances this spring to make the big club?  If not the big club is a at AAA?




His chances of being at Houston out of ST are slim to none.  He'll start the season at AAA.
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Re: Top 10 Discussion thread
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2007, 08:58:45 am »
Quote:

If you're so inclined, you can see how our Top Ten matches up with BA's here.




Here is Rotoworld's version...

 Towles #5