Other possibilities at third?

[Sambito]

What if Purp is not that enamored with Huff, Ensberg,
or Lamb at third.  Who then? I read somewhere that there
are a number of arbitration eligible stros what are the
ramifications of this on solidyfing the hot corner?
Thoughts?

[toddthebod]

I heard that Bagwell can play third.

[matadorph]

Joe Randa's available.

[pravata]

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Joe Randa's available.

He's an FA for exactly the same reason Bagwell is, The Link

[Sambito]

any mention of tejada or cabrera (or would they cost
too much in terms of number of prospects)

[ASTROCREEP]

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any mention of tejada or cabrera (or would they cost
too much in terms of number of prospects)

For Cabrera, ANY 3 Astros for Cabrera. Except for Oswalt, Berkman, Lee, ofcourse.

I'd start with Burke, Willy, Hirsch.

What are the Marlins looking for?

[Sambito]

I would almost prefer Willis for Willy T, Burke & Hirsch
and keep Ensberg, or play Lamb/Bruntlett (& Trade Ensberg for Bully help) but I am willing to wager there are others
who have thought longer and harder on the issue than I and
have better insight

[ASTROCREEP]

Quote:
I would almost prefer Willis for Willy T, Burke & Hirsch
and keep Ensberg, or play Lamb/Bruntlett (& Trade Ensberg for Bully help) but I am willing to wager there are others
who have thought longer and harder on the issue than I and
have better insight

It would actually be better for Baseball if the Marlins kept both Cabrera AND Willis. In fantasy baseball there is a list of players that Managers cannot trade. I might be OK with that, rule.

[Gizzmonic]

I heard Purpura on Sportsradio 610 the day of the Lee signing.  When asked about Huff, he said "We're still thinking about him" but he also said he thought Huff would get a longer term deal somewhere else.  From that little nugget, I'd say Huff is probably not gonna be an Astro next year.

[Texifornia]

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I heard that Bagwell can play third.

I heard he was learning to throw left handed...or maybe kick the ball around the infield like a hackey-sack. I know it was something because I heard about a guy that got it from some reporter who got it from somewhere.

So, with that piece of crucial info, I'd have to agree with you and say Bagwell is a shoe-in at third. Should be a big upgrade on offense.

[pravata]

Quote:
I heard Purpura on Sportsradio 610 the day of the Lee signing.  When asked about Huff, he said "We're still thinking about him" but he also said he thought Huff would get a longer term deal somewhere else.  From that little nugget, I'd say Huff is probably not gonna be an Astro next year.

Consider,

Angels and Chicago White Sox have discussed a trade that would send infielder-outfielder Chone Figgins and pitcher Ervin Santana to Chicago for third baseman Joe Crede and pitcher Freddy Garcia, baseball sources said Monday ....

Figgins is listed as the Angels' third baseman....The White Sox have top prospect Josh Fields ready to play third base
 Link

[No? in Austin]

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Quote:
I heard Purpura on Sportsradio 610 the day of the Lee signing.  When asked about Huff, he said "We're still thinking about him" but he also said he thought Huff would get a longer term deal somewhere else.  From that little nugget, I'd say Huff is probably not gonna be an Astro next year.

Consider,

Angels and Chicago White Sox have discussed a trade that would send infielder-outfielder Chone Figgins and pitcher Ervin Santana to Chicago for third baseman Joe Crede and pitcher Freddy Garcia, baseball sources said Monday ....

Figgins is listed as the Angels' third baseman....The White Sox have top prospect Josh Fields ready to play third base
 Link  

Joe Crede is one of those mid-market types (not utility, but starter) who had one heck of a season last year and looks to cash in on it.  He is yet another in the growing list of role guys who are going to break the bank and send a shockwave of disinterest around the league to keep going this route with role players.

Kids like Fields will get their chance to play a lot sooner because of it too.  If you look and see how the Brewers decided to trade away a very good player in Lyle Overbay to give a chance to Prince Fielder, you get a sense that this will happen more and more.  Of course, Overbay and Fields are both a cut above the role player types and the Brewers aren't necessarily the pace-horse fiscal standard for the league either, but the idea/principle is the same.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

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Quote:
I heard Purpura on Sportsradio 610 the day of the Lee signing.  When asked about Huff, he said "We're still thinking about him" but he also said he thought Huff would get a longer term deal somewhere else.  From that little nugget, I'd say Huff is probably not gonna be an Astro next year.

Consider,

Angels and Chicago White Sox have discussed a trade that would send infielder-outfielder Chone Figgins and pitcher Ervin Santana to Chicago for third baseman Joe Crede and pitcher Freddy Garcia, baseball sources said Monday ....

Figgins is listed as the Angels' third baseman....The White Sox have top prospect Josh Fields ready to play third base
 Link  

Offensively, Crede is not a great hitter (solid) but for a 5 or 6 hole hitter, he fits the bill quite well, IMO.  I have not seen much of his defensive abilities at 3B but his reputation is pretty good in that aspect of the game. I would think the major concern with Crede is his back injury from last year, injury history.    To date, I think he's still in single digits in games missed, so I don't know that this is a major obstacle.  

What would the White Sox want in return?  One of Lidge, Qualls, or Wheeler?  A straight up Burke for Crede trade?  Would they want to expand the deal, Buehrle and Crede for Qualls and Hirsh?  Read this earlier about Kenny Williams and Crede  web page.  Williams is shrewd and I don't see him getting screwed in any trade.

[No? in Austin]

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I heard Purpura on Sportsradio 610 the day of the Lee signing.  When asked about Huff, he said "We're still thinking about him" but he also said he thought Huff would get a longer term deal somewhere else.  From that little nugget, I'd say Huff is probably not gonna be an Astro next year.

Consider,

Angels and Chicago White Sox have discussed a trade that would send infielder-outfielder Chone Figgins and pitcher Ervin Santana to Chicago for third baseman Joe Crede and pitcher Freddy Garcia, baseball sources said Monday ....

Figgins is listed as the Angels' third baseman....The White Sox have top prospect Josh Fields ready to play third base
 Link  

Offensively, Crede is not a great hitter (solid) but for a 5 or 6 hole hitter, he fits the bill quite well, IMO.  I have not seen much of his defensive abilities at 3B but his reputation is pretty good in that aspect of the game. I would think the major concern with Crede is his back injury from last year, injury history.    To date, I think he's still in single digits in games missed, so I don't know that this is a major obstacle.  

What would the White Sox want in return?  One of Lidge, Qualls, or Wheeler?  A straight up Burke for Crede trade?  Would they want to expand the deal, Buehrle and Crede for Qualls and Hirsh?  Read this earlier about Kenny Williams and Crede  web page.  Williams is shrewd and I don't see him getting screwed in any trade.

Crede is an excellent defensive 3rd baseman and it was his glove that brought him up to the majors and not his bat.  However, he had a break out season last year and it is scary to think what he's going to command soon in salary because of it.

Be cautious about this guy, he may be too expensive a role player to keep around.

[TheRedSon]

Crede's not really that interesting, but if the Angels are willing to trade that much for power at third base then I'd introduce them to Ensberg.  I don't know what else it would take to land that kind of deal, but Figgins and Santana would fit in nicely.

[pravata]

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I heard Purpura on Sportsradio 610 the day of the Lee signing.  When asked about Huff, he said "We're still thinking about him" but he also said he thought Huff would get a longer term deal somewhere else.  From that little nugget, I'd say Huff is probably not gonna be an Astro next year.

Consider,

Angels and Chicago White Sox have discussed a trade that would send infielder-outfielder Chone Figgins and pitcher Ervin Santana to Chicago for third baseman Joe Crede and pitcher Freddy Garcia, baseball sources said Monday ....

Figgins is listed as the Angels' third baseman....The White Sox have top prospect Josh Fields ready to play third base
 Link  

Offensively, Crede is not a great hitter (solid) but for a 5 or 6 hole hitter, he fits the bill quite well, IMO.  I have not seen much of his defensive abilities at 3B but his reputation is pretty good in that aspect of the game. I would think the major concern with Crede is his back injury from last year, injury history.    To date, I think he's still in single digits in games missed, so I don't know that this is a major obstacle.  

What would the White Sox want in return?  One of Lidge, Qualls, or Wheeler?  A straight up Burke for Crede trade?  Would they want to expand the deal, Buehrle and Crede for Qualls and Hirsh?  Read this earlier about Kenny Williams and Crede  web page.  Williams is shrewd and I don't see him getting screwed in any trade.

I hadn't considered this as a template for an Astros trade.  I was thinking more of what teams are doing to avoid trading for Ensberg, who Purpura is surely shopping, and Huff, who is available merely for money.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

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Quote:
I heard Purpura on Sportsradio 610 the day of the Lee signing.  When asked about Huff, he said "We're still thinking about him" but he also said he thought Huff would get a longer term deal somewhere else.  From that little nugget, I'd say Huff is probably not gonna be an Astro next year.

Consider,

Angels and Chicago White Sox have discussed a trade that would send infielder-outfielder Chone Figgins and pitcher Ervin Santana to Chicago for third baseman Joe Crede and pitcher Freddy Garcia, baseball sources said Monday ....

Figgins is listed as the Angels' third baseman....The White Sox have top prospect Josh Fields ready to play third base
 Link  

Offensively, Crede is not a great hitter (solid) but for a 5 or 6 hole hitter, he fits the bill quite well, IMO.  I have not seen much of his defensive abilities at 3B but his reputation is pretty good in that aspect of the game. I would think the major concern with Crede is his back injury from last year, injury history.    To date, I think he's still in single digits in games missed, so I don't know that this is a major obstacle.  

What would the White Sox want in return?  One of Lidge, Qualls, or Wheeler?  A straight up Burke for Crede trade?  Would they want to expand the deal, Buehrle and Crede for Qualls and Hirsh?  Read this earlier about Kenny Williams and Crede  web page.  Williams is shrewd and I don't see him getting screwed in any trade.

I hadn't considered this as a template for an Astros trade.  I was thinking more of what teams are doing to avoid trading for Ensberg, who Purpura is surely shopping, and Huff, who is available merely for money.

Fair enough.  For what it's worth, I just read that Crede is a Boras client.  For me, that affirms the speculation by Noe that Crede will break the bank even though, at best, he's a very good role player (good but not great bat, good to great glove).  Too bad really, seems like a nice player for any team to pick up.

As for Ensberg, I think the Astros are obliged to hold on to him thru ST, maybe first month or so of the season until he improves his trade value.  Other team's know what Houston knows:  When healthy, he's good.  He's just not healthy for long and, the topper, he doesn't communicate that he's hurt.    Of course, why trade him at that point if he's helping the Astros win games....

[Froback]

I also heard just yesterday that Crede has some disk problems in his back.  So while Ensberg is inconsistent, Crede is asking for DL issues, which always cause ripple affects.  I would rather have Ensberg than that.

But it might also make us more appealing option to trade with ANA if they are looking for a 3B.  BTW, the deal I heard was Crede and Garcia for Santanna and Figgins.  If you can land Santanna and Figgins.  Not sure we have the SP spot to offer like the White Sox, but would you trade Ensberg for Figgins straight up?

[toddthebod]

Ensberg for Figgins?  Can you say "heartbeat."

[S.P. Rodriguez]

No.  But I do a trade of Maicer Izturis for Ensberg.  

[pravata]

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I heard Purpura on Sportsradio 610 the day of the Lee signing.  When asked about Huff, he said "We're still thinking about him" but he also said he thought Huff would get a longer term deal somewhere else.  From that little nugget, I'd say Huff is probably not gonna be an Astro next year.

Consider,

Angels and Chicago White Sox have discussed a trade that would send infielder-outfielder Chone Figgins and pitcher Ervin Santana to Chicago for third baseman Joe Crede and pitcher Freddy Garcia, baseball sources said Monday ....

Figgins is listed as the Angels' third baseman....The White Sox have top prospect Josh Fields ready to play third base
 Link  

Offensively, Crede is not a great hitter (solid) but for a 5 or 6 hole hitter, he fits the bill quite well, IMO.  I have not seen much of his defensive abilities at 3B but his reputation is pretty good in that aspect of the game. I would think the major concern with Crede is his back injury from last year, injury history.    To date, I think he's still in single digits in games missed, so I don't know that this is a major obstacle.  

What would the White Sox want in return?  One of Lidge, Qualls, or Wheeler?  A straight up Burke for Crede trade?  Would they want to expand the deal, Buehrle and Crede for Qualls and Hirsh?  Read this earlier about Kenny Williams and Crede  web page.  Williams is shrewd and I don't see him getting screwed in any trade.

I hadn't considered this as a template for an Astros trade.  I was thinking more of what teams are doing to avoid trading for Ensberg, who Purpura is surely shopping, and Huff, who is available merely for money.

Fair enough.  For what it's worth, I just read that Crede is a Boras client.  For me, that affirms the speculation by Noe that Crede will break the bank even though, at best, he's a very good role player (good but not great bat, good to great glove).  Too bad really, seems like a nice player for any team to pick up.

As for Ensberg, I think the Astros are obliged to hold on to him thru ST, maybe first month or so of the season until he improves his trade value.  Other team's know what Houston knows:  When healthy, he's good.  He's just not healthy for long and, the topper, he doesn't communicate that he's hurt.    Of course, why trade him at that point if he's helping the Astros win games....

Given a choice, out of all possibilities, I'd rather have healthy, free swinging Morgan Ensberg at 3d.   I suppose I should have anticipated my post would be interpreted as who the Astros could trade for rather than what the market for 3b is like.  Anyone speculating about Ensberg and Huff should consider that the Angels and WhiteSox, two teams who need a 3b, are considering going with either a rookie, a player who has never been a regular 3b and a 3b with serious injury issues, rather than sign or trade for either of those 2 guys.  Diamondbacks, Phillies, and DevilRays have already gone with other options at 3b.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

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Given a choice, out of all possibilities, I'd rather have healthy, free swinging Morgan Ensberg at 3d.   I suppose I should have anticipated my post would be interpreted as who the Astros could trade for rather than what the market for 3b is like.  Anyone speculating about Ensberg and Huff should consider that the Angels and WhiteSox, two teams who need a 3b, are considering going with either a rookie, a player who has never been a regular 3b and a 3b with serious injury issues, rather than sign or trade for either of those 2 guys.  Diamondbacks, Phillies, and DevilRays have already gone with other options at 3b.

Not at all, my fault.  And while I, along with many others, grew frustrated with Ensberg last year, the old saying "A bird in the hand etc..." applies here.  I'm coming around to your line of thinking, mostly because I don't see his trade value as very high and the cost to replace him would not provide any financial relief.  Is Huff more reliable?  I think so.  But his overall potential isn't as high and he'll cost more.  Defensively, Ensberg is better.  Offensive production is less predictable, while defense is more predictable.  At this point, I'm looking for the positives and hoping Ensberg re-thinks his "take" mentality and is more aggressive at the plate.  I refuse to join those who suggest batting Ensberg in the 2-spot simply because he draws walks.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

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I refuse to join those who suggest batting Ensberg in the 2-spot simply because he draws walks.

I'm actually coming around to what I once thought was an absurd notion. Willy on 2nd or 3rd, Morgan's .390+ OBP on 1st, Berkman at bat with Lee on deck, seems like a nice scenario.

[Tralfaz]

[quote}  I refuse to join those who suggest batting Ensberg in the 2-spot simply because he draws walks.



I don't really have an opinion on this one way or the other, and I'm sure if the team struggles, Phil will try it.  But my question is, in this senario, that puts Scott 5th and Biggio/Burke 6th?  If Burke is on 2B, I bat him 2nd and Ensberg behind Lee.  

Will Biggio see the top of the order on a regular basis at home this year?  If not, I already miss those lead off Crawford Box shots.

[Jacksonian]

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I refuse to join those who suggest batting Ensberg in the 2-spot simply because he draws walks.

I'm actually coming around to what I once thought was an absurd notion. Willy on 2nd or 3rd, Morgan's .390+ OBP on 1st, Berkman at bat with Lee on deck, seems like a nice scenario.

I'm beginning to believe that if Ensberg doesn't approach every at-bat like a middle of the order run producer Lamb will be the everyday 3b.

[pravata]

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[quote}  I refuse to join those who suggest batting Ensberg in the 2-spot simply because he draws walks.

... Biggio/Burke 6th? ...



That is the reason Ensberg can't hit 2nd.  If they had a suitable 6 hitter, by all means, give it a try.

[Arky Vaughan]

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At this point, I'm looking for the positives and hoping Ensberg re-thinks his "take" mentality and is more aggressive at the plate.  I refuse to join those who suggest batting Ensberg in the 2-spot simply because he draws walks.

And I refuse to join those who suggest Ensberg should just hack away because he's in the 5-spot.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

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At this point, I'm looking for the positives and hoping Ensberg re-thinks his "take" mentality and is more aggressive at the plate.  I refuse to join those who suggest batting Ensberg in the 2-spot simply because he draws walks.

And I refuse to join those who suggest Ensberg should just hack away because he's in the 5-spot.

Nor would I.  I simply want to see him swinging at hittable pitches or pitches that are in the strike zone, that he can hit, rather than waiting for the perfect pitch.  His job is to drive the ball, not wait for the ultimate pitch, otherwise take a walk.  If that were his job, he'd be hitting #1 or #2 and would play for another team because the Astros look for run production from their 3B.

[Arky Vaughan]

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Nor would I.  I simply want to see him swinging at hittable pitches or pitches that are in the strike zone, that he can hit, rather than waiting for the perfect pitch.  His job is to drive the ball, not wait for the ultimate pitch, otherwise take a walk.  If that were his job, he'd be hitting #1 or #2 and would play for another team because the Astros look for run production from their 3B.

I think he should be swinging at pitches inside the strike zone and taking pitches outside the strike zone.

[JimR]

good thing you were not advising Berra or Clemente.

[Taras Bulba]

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good thing you were not advising Berra or Clemente.

...or Jesus Alou.

[Arky Vaughan]

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good thing you were not advising Berra or Clemente.

That's too bad, because I was thinking of getting a time machine and going back to the '50s and '60s to apply for that job.

[Arky Vaughan]

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good thing you were not advising Berra or Clemente.

...or Jesus Alou.

... or anybody else who can hit pretty much anything they see.

Which means what for Morgan Ensberg? I think the last thing Ensberg needs is to adopt the Willie McGee school of plate discipline.

[Froback]

I agree.  As much as Morgan frustrates me, his best path to success is doing what works for him.  I think Arky did a balls in play percentage and found Morgan was really poor in 06 but pretty decent in 05.  I figure Morgan might be one of those on again-off again type hitters and I am hopeful that 07 will be more on than off, like 05, instead of more off than on like 06.

[Arky Vaughan]

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I agree.  As much as Morgan frustrates me, his best path to success is doing what works for him.  I think Arky did a balls in play percentage and found Morgan was really poor in 06 but pretty decent in 05.  I figure Morgan might be one of those on again-off again type hitters and I am hopeful that 07 will be more on than off, like 05, instead of more off than on like 06.

Of course, maybe one reason Ensberg grounds out weakly so often is that he screws around, takes a couple of pitches in the strike zone that he could drive, than swats at something that he now has no choice to offer at, making poor contact and rolling into an out.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

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I agree.  As much as Morgan frustrates me, his best path to success is doing what works for him.  I think Arky did a balls in play percentage and found Morgan was really poor in 06 but pretty decent in 05.  I figure Morgan might be one of those on again-off again type hitters and I am hopeful that 07 will be more on than off, like 05, instead of more off than on like 06.

Of course, maybe one reason Ensberg grounds out weakly so often is that he screws around, takes a couple of pitches in the strike zone that he could drive, than swats at something that he now has no choice to offer at, making poor contact and rolling into an out.

I think that sums up everyone's frustration with him, compounded by the knowledge that when he doesn't screw around taking pitches unnecessarily, he's a hell of a hitter.  A hitter the Astros would be foolish to trade or otherwise jettison.  The Morgan Ensberg of 2006 is a bench player, at best.

[Bench]

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I agree.  As much as Morgan frustrates me, his best path to success is doing what works for him.  I think Arky did a balls in play percentage and found Morgan was really poor in 06 but pretty decent in 05.  I figure Morgan might be one of those on again-off again type hitters and I am hopeful that 07 will be more on than off, like 05, instead of more off than on like 06.

Of course, maybe one reason Ensberg grounds out weakly so often is that he screws around, takes a couple of pitches in the strike zone that he could drive, than swats at something that he now has no choice to offer at, making poor contact and rolling into an out.

I think that sums up everyone's frustration with him, compounded by the knowledge that when he doesn't screw around taking pitches unnecessarily, he's a hell of a hitter.  A hitter the Astros would be foolish to trade or otherwise jettison.  The Morgan Ensberg of 2006 is a bench player, at best.

The only reason the Morgan Ensberg of 2006 would be a bench player - at best- is because of the Morgan Ensberg of April/May 2006 and the Morgan Ensberg of 2005.

[cc]

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good thing you were not advising Berra or Clemente.

Morgan Ensberg never met a pitch he didn't dislike.