Author Topic: Pence... (Read 15721 times)

Greg D · « **on:** November 02, 2006, 11:50:31 pm »

his AFL season came to a screeching halt because of a DUI arrest on Sunday.

JimR · « **Reply #1 on:** November 03, 2006, 01:37:30 am »

oops.

Duman · « **Reply #2 on:** November 03, 2006, 06:58:18 am »

Quote:

his AFL season came to a screeching halt because of a DUI arrest on Sunday.

I am really amazed that doesn't happen more frequently. It's a shame for Hunter who I have heard is good kid.

Greg D · « **Reply #3 on:** November 03, 2006, 08:39:32 am »

Further information on the arrest and possible disciplinary action by the Astros is in the MNDR.

Fredia · « **Reply #4 on:** November 03, 2006, 08:43:02 am »

how many of us at that age doesnt have something that we wish could be swept under the rug but have the fortune or misfortune to not be famous. i wonder how hard he is kicking himself right now

Holly · « **Reply #5 on:** November 03, 2006, 08:52:00 am »

Pretty hard, I hope... and not because he just lost some playing time. DUI is STUPID on so many levels, and not something to be swept under the rug. Lucky he didn't hurt someone.

JimR · « **Reply #8 on:** November 03, 2006, 10:21:01 am »

please--you think that is minor?

Fredia · « **Reply #10 on:** November 03, 2006, 11:02:39 am »

no. i dont think it is minor. i have a 21 year old daughter. i was not defending him just making the comment we probably all had stuff at that age we would rather forget. for most of us it was probably a horrible experience.. but not to the point where it made the news and maybe altered the path of our career

JimR · « **Reply #12 on:** November 03, 2006, 12:06:19 pm »

you still do not get it.

Fredia · « **Reply #13 on:** November 03, 2006, 12:27:51 pm »

explain then. i dont always get across my meanings the way i mean to say things here

JimR · « **Reply #15 on:** November 03, 2006, 12:56:04 pm »

and there is a whole hell of a lot more to worry about than a baseball career.

JimR · « **Reply #18 on:** November 03, 2006, 01:05:55 pm »

you are full of shit. i currents am serving on a grand jury and see DWIs every session. your post sounds like the denial one has when pulled over or when confronted about a problem. good luck to you.

toddthebod · « **Reply #31 on:** November 03, 2006, 02:06:00 pm »

Just for clarity purposes. Arizona has four statutes concerning drunk driving. The first concerns persons under 21 and, consequently, does not apply to Pence. Pence was charged with the lesser of the three remaining offenses. While we do not know the facts of the case, you can be charged if "impaired to the slightest degree." I'm no expert but it seems to me that you could have one drink and end up violating this statute. I do not condone drunk driving in any fashion. But I think that we should learn the facts before we start lynching Pence.

Title 28 - 1381.A1: Driving under the Influence
ARS 28-1381
It is unlawful for a person to drive or be in actual physical control of a vehicle in this state under any of the following circumstances:
While under the influence of intoxicating liquor, any drug, a vapor releasing substance containing a toxic substance, or any combination of liquor, drugs or vapor releasing substances if the person is impaired to the slightest degree.
If the person has an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more within two hours of driving or being in actual physical control of the vehicle.
While there is any drug defined in Section 13-3401 or its metabolite in the person's body. If the vehicle is a commercial motor vehicle that requires a person to obtain a commercial driver's license as defined in Section 28-3001 and the person has an alcohol concentration of 0.04 or more. A conviction of DUI is considered a Misdemeanor criminal conviction.

Title 28-1382: Driving Under the Influence with a Blood Alcohol Concentration (BAC) of .15 or more (Extreme DUI)
ARS 28-1382
It is unlawful for a person to drive or be in actual physical control of a motor vehicle in this state if the person has an alcohol concentration of 0.15 or more within two hours of driving or being in actual physical control of the vehicle. A person who is convicted of a violation of this section is guilty of driving or being in actual physical control of a vehicle while under the extreme influence of intoxicating liquor. A conviction of Extreme DUI is considered a misdemeanor criminal conviction.

Title 28-1383: Aggravated Driving Under the Influence
ARS 28-1383
A person is guilty of aggravated driving or actual physical control while under the influence of an intoxicating liquor or drugs if the person does any of the following:
Commits a violation of section 28-1381 or 28-1382 or this section while the person's driver license or privilege to drive is cancelled, suspended, revoked, or refused while a restriction is placed on the person's driver license or privilege to drive as a result of violating section 28-1381, 28-1382, or under 28-1385.
Within a period of sixty months (5 years) commits a third or subsequent violation of section 28-1381, 28-1382, or this section.
Commits a violation of 28-1381 or 28-1382 while a person under 15 years of age is in the vehicle. A conviction of Aggravated DUI is considered a felony conviction.

WulawHorn · « **Reply #32 on:** November 03, 2006, 02:16:16 pm »

I think our DWI laws are inherently stupid. Handing out the same punishment to someone at .08 and someone at .28 is absurd. .07 is ok, .08 is not and there is no difference in that consequence or .28.

As a note- I do not have even a drop to drink and then get behind the wheel. I have nightmares of getting pulled over after having 2 beers and blowing .08 so I don't do it. I don't trust the system, nor the breathalizers to even have a trace amount of alcohol- I'm scared of a false positive so I don't drink at all if I have to drive.

I've seen studies that basically say driving at .08 is akin to driving and talking on the cell phone. Additionally, if we could clean up all the people that drive all the time, very drunk, our problems would almost go away completely- it ain't the guy who had a beer and a margarita with his mexican dinner that generally fatally gets behind the wheel, it's the guy hammering it back at the bar, stupid drunk, continuously, that does it. I'd favor some manner of scale where the punishment is akin to a speeding in a work zone fine (which is also very dangerous) to someone not very intoxicated up to mandatory year in jail for someone hammered.

Just my opinion on the issue.

WulawHorn · « **Reply #33 on:** November 03, 2006, 02:23:40 pm »

Tod- AZ seems like they took a sensible approach to the issue- I like that idea (posted while I was writing my post).

A note- the other night as I was driving home some lady was driving at 60 miles an hour down the highway (three lanes each way- with a turning lane- 7 lanes total) in the middle lane of oncoming traffic. I'd bet she was massively hammered. I was getting ready to call the police when she turned off the highway into a residential subdivision with a gate. I'd support her being incarcerated and for a long time. This inherently stupid and selfish act could have easily killed someone. I don't think that someone who had 2 beers at happy hour and then got pulled over only because their registration sticker was out of date should be treated similarly under the law. I think that's kinda where bench was going with his post. If so I concurr in full.

Browneye · « **Reply #36 on:** November 03, 2006, 04:20:09 pm »

I just hate the drunks who drive and talk on the cell phones at the same time.

Ty in Tampa · « **Reply #38 on:** November 03, 2006, 04:40:50 pm »

Living in Florida as I do, I would also add aged. But that is oh, so politically incorrect.

JimR · « **Reply #41 on:** November 03, 2006, 05:28:06 pm »

yeah, old guys have never seen cell phones. they're so stupid.

JimR · « **Reply #44 on:** November 03, 2006, 05:36:17 pm »

defense attorneys tell their clients to always try the field tests and to never blow.

what Travis County now is doing if a drunk injures someone is to get a search warrant and take a blood sample.

i have been presented 2 intoxication homicides in my 4 weeks on the grand jury, and the impaired driving apologists on here need to hear some of that.

JimR · « **Reply #46 on:** November 03, 2006, 05:49:21 pm »

JimR · « **Reply #49 on:** November 03, 2006, 06:02:24 pm »

i chose mine much more wisely than that:

"You Are Always On My Mind" by W. Nelson, which is, of course, a shameless attempt to get brownie points.

JimR · « **Reply #52 on:** November 03, 2006, 06:24:38 pm »

you are mixing up civil trials and criminal trials, i think, but the defense attorney is entitled to create reasonable doubt however he/she can.

JimR · « **Reply #54 on:** November 03, 2006, 06:32:54 pm »

they always know....

littlevisigoth · « **Reply #55 on:** November 03, 2006, 06:43:25 pm »

this thread has enormously digressed from Pence. the guy made a mistake. he's going to be punished by the state of Arizona and has already been kicked out of the AFL. i know it's a thoughtless and stupid crime and the consequences are potentially dire, but it's also an easy mistake to make. you get an enormous smack in the mouth by the law in hopes that it corrects your future decision-making, but beyond that i don't think it should leave a red flag on his character or otherwise affect his future with the Astros. for most people, you have no obligation to even inform your employer of a misdomeanor crime. obviously his case is different and can't be ignored in the eyes of the public, but in my opinion it's a legal matter and any action by the Astros should be largly for appearances sake.

remember, the president of the united states made a similar mistake once. it's just that... a mistake. let the guy learn from it, thank his lucky stars he didn't hurt himself or anybody else, and move on.

JimR · « **Reply #56 on:** November 03, 2006, 06:49:26 pm »

bullshit--he did not make a "mistake." he intentionally drank, and he intentionally drove. no mistakes there. that's like agents of players who are busted for cocaine saying their clients "made a mistake." bullshit.

he committed a crime. will he learn from the experience? i hope so.

take your apologist crap elsewhere.

Arky Vaughan · « **Reply #57 on:** November 03, 2006, 06:59:09 pm »

Maybe reading comprehension got lost in the length of this thread, but I wasn't trying to take the moral high ground nor was I trying to lynch Pence, whom I know almost nothing about.

My two points were:

1) DUI should not be dismissed as a youthful indiscretion. I don't think it's just part of sowing your wild oats.

2) The reason DUI is a crime is because drunk driving increases the likelihood that someone will be injured or killed, even if a DUI in a particular case did not lead to someone being injured or killed.

If that makes me some kind of prohibitionist MADD jihadist, then so be it, but I never implied that I think Pence should be strung up by his entrails.

littlevisigoth · « **Reply #58 on:** November 03, 2006, 07:03:52 pm »

well now i have no illusions as to your stance on the matter, but my underlying point is that this isn't a sports story and it shouldn't affect his long-term standing with the organization or otherwise have any bearing on where he'll be playing baseball next Spring.

now i don't know about you, but along with half of the rest of the city, i'm off to happy hour where i'm going to intentionally have a couple beers and intentionally drive home afterwards. stay off the Houston highways, cause there may be some people having difficulty telling the difference between 0.06 and 0.08 BAC, and one or two of us may have a slight lapse in judgement that will forever damn us as lesser human beings in your eyes.

Fredia · « **Reply #65 on:** November 03, 2006, 11:31:05 pm »

i heard about a cell phone they are making to target the older generation. it will have a dial tone and numbers in a row .. no internet .. no camera... no im .. just phone and odly all this lack of technology is supposed to cost more than a regular cell. i will never forget my embarrassment when my daughter had to show me how to complete a call on the cell the first time i used it

astrojo · « **Reply #67 on:** November 04, 2006, 01:45:52 am »

My husband's ring tone for me is the Vapors' - Turning Japanese. I once called him during a really important meeting with bosses/clients when he forgot to silence his ringer. They just laughed.

frankie · « **Reply #68 on:** November 04, 2006, 02:00:56 am »

Defense attorneys know the field test procedures better than most cops. A cop is more likely to screw up giving the field tests as opposed to the breath test. When you are asked to do the common "walk and turn" test, there is a very exact set of instructions that are to be given to the driver. Defense attorneys will make hay out of the slightest omission.

The smartest thing to do is to politely decline to take any tests, particularly if you're pulled over for a non-moving violation. Without a moving violation or test results, there simply is no DUI case.

In Missouri (and Texas, I'm sure,) giving a breath sample of .08 or above is prima facie evidence that you are DUI. In other words, not much more is needed for conviction. That's why defense attorneys advise you never to blow. If you refuse in Missouri, you (in theory) automatically lose your license for a year but you won't have a DUI conviction on your record. Plus, your lawyer will find a way around that in order for you to at least be allowed to drive to work.

All that said, driving under the influence kills people. Too often, innocent people. If these morons were just risking their own lifes, I wouldn't have a problem with it. You want to jump off a building, go ahead. Just don't do it where you might land on somebody else.

JimR · « **Reply #69 on:** November 04, 2006, 09:23:48 am »

that was not my advice i posted; it was the advice of one of the very best criminal defense attorneys in Travis County. he says to try the field test because you might pass. if you do, you are on your way.

i can tell you from my current experience as a grand juror that refusal to do any tests is some evidence that there must have been a reason to say no. you are very, very wrong that it defeats the DWI case.

JimR · « **Reply #70 on:** November 04, 2006, 09:29:15 am »

it is "Were," sorry for the error.

i do not have all the lyrics on there, and the refrain that i do have was enough to keep me out of the doghouse. much better than "Hit The Road, Jack," i think.

do you have a suggestion for an alternate?

ASTROCREEP · « **Reply #81 on:** November 06, 2006, 12:49:32 pm »

Driving with 2 young screaming kids in the back seat, may be the most dangerous driving next to piss-in-your-pants-drunk.

das · « **Reply #84 on:** November 06, 2006, 05:39:05 pm »

Not attempted murder but reckless endangerment and the height of selfishness. Every time, Bench. I'm hoping you came to your senses further down in the thread.

JimR · « **Reply #86 on:** November 06, 2006, 06:43:31 pm »

.07 is no one's defintion of sobriety. if this is an example of your reasoning skills as a new attorney, spend a few years reviewing documents before you go to court.

keep defending it.

Jose Cruz III · « **Reply #88 on:** November 06, 2006, 07:08:11 pm »

To quote Sam Kinison "The reason I drink and drive is because it's the only way I can get my car from the bar to my house" Drew an auditorium of laughter.

Oh, the irony.............

Mike · « **Reply #93 on:** November 14, 2006, 01:00:06 am »

What ever happened to presumed innocent until proven guilty? The Astros GM commenrts were a little harsh and premature..most of the time they would not comment on something like this until a verdict has been rendered. The sad thing is if Hunter is found innocent..is the GM going to appologize? Is the press going to run that story all over the place. So far the only thing he is guilty of is being out late. in an unfamilier town, where he should have probably taken a cab.

Mike · « **Reply #95 on:** November 14, 2006, 02:38:26 am »

"Driving erratically "is not a crime, it is an opinion. There could be several reasons his driving could be erratic. Erratic is not the same as wreckless...
I haven't heard of a blood test or a failed sobriety test..

The cab would not have put him behind the wheel late at night, in a strange town, where it is questionable if he should have been driving. The cab would have avoided the situation all together.Which has been costly to him in several ways..guilty or not.

JimR · « **Reply #96 on:** November 14, 2006, 10:01:10 am »

nice defense attorney bullshit. there will be no finding of "innocent," and not guilty does not mean innocent.

Mike · « **Reply #102 on:** November 14, 2006, 10:39:51 pm »

No but a not guilty would mean a clean record, would mean in a court of law he was found not guilty of DUI..

JimR · « **Reply #104 on:** November 15, 2006, 10:22:33 am »

exactly. the police report will state the objective facts of how Mr. Pence presented himself. then there is the matter of what time it was and where he had been. the criminal justice system result matters little overall except to Mr. Pence.

Mike · « **Reply #105 on:** November 17, 2006, 08:52:30 pm »

Well the Astros have disciplined Pence more than the NFL or Washington Redskins disciplined Sean Taylor who was charged with "being charged with two counts of aggravated assault with a firearm, a felony, and one count of simple battery"
"The NFL The NFL waits until the legal process is complete before fining or suspending players in these instances."Quotes from the Washington Post.

Outlawscotty · « **Reply #107 on:** November 17, 2006, 10:08:04 pm »

I'm thinking along the lines of you DON'T put yourself in the situation to even be second-guessed or questioned. As someone once told me, nothing good happens after midnight. Being a Doubting Thomas, I had to see for myself. After getting away with the proverbial 'murder', I understand this argument. I can understand the temptation of a 'kid' in his situation, and therefore sympathize to a point. Times have changed and the alleged charges are now way more taboo then what they once were. If the system finds him gulity, what can you say. If it doesn't, he should take that as one of his nine lives and learn from it. This is where Biggio should come in.

JimR · « **Reply #112 on:** November 19, 2006, 10:04:44 am »

if an employer wants to fire you for getting arrested, it can. take your defense attorney BS elsewhere and tell it to the judge. the Astros could have sent him home for being out that late if they had wanted.

WFW, Mr. Pence. you should have been home.

Author Topic: Pence... (Read 15721 times)

pravata

pravata

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