We can finally put a spike in that whole America's Team BS

[Greg D]

This article (may have to register) contains details on the Braves' present and broadcasting future:

• "...national ratings for Braves games on TBS have dropped precipitously through the years ? 87 percent since 1983."
  
• "In 2008 and beyond, TBS will televise no Braves games nationally..."
  

And as far as what will be replacing it (none of this is new, but it's the first time I've seen it recapped all in one place before):

• Beginning in 2007, TBS will televise all division series playoff games as well as any tiebreaker games.
  
• Beginning in 2007, TBS will televise one of the two league championship series each year through 2013 ? the NLCS in 2007, 2009, 2011 and 2013; the ALCS in 2008, 2010 and 2012.
  
• Beginning in 2008, TBS will carry a national game of the week on Sunday afternoons (26 weeks).
  

[David in Jackson]

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This article (may have to register) contains details on the Braves' present and broadcasting future:

• "...national ratings for Braves games on TBS have dropped precipitously through the years ? 87 percent since 1983."
  
• "In 2008 and beyond, TBS will televise no Braves games nationally..."
  

And as far as what will be replacing it (none of this is new, but it's the first time I've seen it recapped all in one place before):

• Beginning in 2007, TBS will televise all division series playoff games as well as any tiebreaker games.
  
• Beginning in 2007, TBS will televise one of the two league championship series each year through 2013 ? the NLCS in 2007, 2009, 2011 and 2013; the ALCS in 2008, 2010 and 2012.
  
• Beginning in 2008, TBS will carry a national game of the week on Sunday afternoons (26 weeks).
  

I can't believe MLB will have the Division Series and some LCS on pay cable.  Is this the NBA?

[Fredia]

no its the future of baseball i am afraid. wonder how much mlb is making out of this deal.

[Random]

I don't pretend to know what is best for the sport, but does this strike anyone as being similar to putting the NHL on OLN?  More money, less viewers?

[Rebel Jew]

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More money, less viewers?

this has, sadly, pretty much been the mlb motto in the selig era.

[Arky Vaughan]

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I can't believe MLB will have the Division Series and some LCS on pay cable.  Is this the NBA?

By "pay cable," do you mean pay-per-view, or just being on cable rather than over-the-air TV?

If it's the latter rather than the former, I don't see what the big deal is. Playoff games are already shown on ESPN or FX, which are only available through cable or satellite, not over the air.

More to the point, the vast majority of regular-season games are now available only through a team's Fox Sports or similar channel, which is not available over the air.

Plus, 85 percent of Americans have cable or satellite. It's not as if showing games on cable somehow cuts out the vast majority of viewers.

It makes no sense that baseball should confine its broadcasting choices to suit the 15 percent of viewers who haven't caught up with technology that's been available for three decades now.

[Arky Vaughan]

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More money, less viewers?

this has, sadly, pretty much been the mlb motto in the selig era.

Isn't this internally contradictory? If TBS were such a worse option from a viewship perspective than NBC, CBS, ABC or FOX, then it seems that TBS wouldn't be able to offer baseball as lucrative a contract. And yet baseball is going with TBS over those options, at least for some games. Which indicates that somebody has figured out that the viewership on TBS is going to be sufficient to make a contract there.

Again, I don't understand why baseball should be expected to sign a lesser contract so that the Waltons or whomever else living in the backwoods of Appalachia can use their black-and-white TV to pick up an over-the-air signal by putting John Boy on top of the house with rabbit ears and a piece of tin foil.

[Arky Vaughan]

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no its the future of baseball i am afraid. wonder how much mlb is making out of this deal.

I think TBS must be paying at least $5 trillion for the rights, just to line greedy Bud's pockets.

Why can't we just go back to the pre-1869 amateur game?

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

There are an estimated 110.9 million television households in the USA. Cable has 65.5 millions subscribers. There are 30 million satellite television subscribers. I guess they figure the 15 million that still get free TV over the air, aren't the kind of fans MLB wants.

The thing that helped the Braves it the thing that ended up hurting them. Cable TV. WTBS was primed for the growth of the cable tv industry. The Braves capitalized off the success of WTBS' initial proliferation in homes across america as the cable industry boomed in the mid to late 70s. As cable tv further took root, in time most MLB teams came up with their own regional coverages, also on cable. For instance, given the choice in Florida or Colorado, why would anyone choose a shittily produced Braves snooze fest, when one could embrace the local heros with gusto and pride, still, while never leaving the comforts of home.

[Reuben]

Don't laugh. In 2004, when I was living outside Boston with two lifelong Red Sox fans, it was quite nice to be able to watch the Astros on the big TV with cable, right next to the little b & w TV with the Red Sox game (IIRC, it was on Fox while the Astros-Cards was on FX).

I do think it would be a shame if  all playoff games were on cable. It's nice for at least the WS, and preferably both LCS, to be accessible to the other 15%.

[Rebel Jew]

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More money, less viewers?

this has, sadly, pretty much been the mlb motto in the selig era.

Isn't this internally contradictory? If TBS were such a worse option from a viewship perspective than NBC, CBS, ABC or FOX, then it seems that TBS wouldn't be able to offer baseball as lucrative a contract. And yet baseball is going with TBS over those options, at least for some games. Which indicates that somebody has figured out that the viewership on TBS is going to be sufficient to make a contract there.

Again, I don't understand why baseball should be expected to sign a lesser contract so that the Waltons or whomever else living in the backwoods of Appalachia can use their black-and-white TV to pick up an over-the-air signal by putting John Boy on top of the house with rabbit ears and a piece of tin foil.

well, i don't have cable, and no tin foil in my house except for leftovers, but that's beside the point.

casual viewers are more likely to watch a game when it is on the networks because it seems more like an event, it is easier to find on the tv dial, and the networks still get far more viewers than any cable channel.  ask any person on the street what channel fox, nbc, cbs, or abc is on whatever tv plan they have, and they will be able to tell you immediately.  ask them what channel tbs is and more often than not they will not know because, by comparison, nobody watches tbs.  what's the lead-in to a baseball game on fox (local news that advertises the game), or what's the regular programming that's being pre-empted (at least one highly rated sitcom or drama)? compare that to the lead-in or regular programming for tbs (seinfeld reruns?).

when games are on non-espn cable, you're basically catering to the people who are already serious fans, who are willing to search out the game among the hundreds of channels on their cable or satellite package.  mlb is getting their loyal viewership, and tbs is getting the percentage of those loyal baseball viewers who will later tune into tbs slightly more often to watch their random crappy shows.  what mlb doesn't get is a casual fan, or even non-fan who watches the game because it's right in front of their face, and it seems like something important enough for them to at least take note of.  the end result is that mlb becomes marginalized as a sport, rather than being the event sport that it is/was.

this deal, similar to directv deal with nfl sunday ticket, is a struggling media company using its media giant parent corporation to overpay for the rights to a loss leader.  the result is more short term money for mlb, but less fans exposed to the games in the long term.  and this type of practice is wholly symptomatic of the selig's sheister motto, the same motto that threatened legal action against its own fan websites, took legal action against its own fantasy owners, and has manipulated countless taxpayers into providing wealthy old white men with hundred-million dollar assets, only to turn back around and hustle those same taxpayers out of increased ticket fees, concession fees, and merchandising fees.

[CJM]

I know that last season in Houston, KNWS (OTA Station) was allowed to show the Astros playoff games from ESPN.  I don't know if the same thing will be done with TBS, but if so that will at least make sure fans in a local team's market are able to watch the playoff games without needing to subscribe to cable.

[Trey]

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well, i don't have cable, and no tin foil in my house except for leftovers, but that's beside the point.

casual viewers are more likely to watch a game when it is on the networks because it seems more like an event, it is easier to find on the tv dial, and the networks still get far more viewers than any cable channel.  ask any person on the street what channel fox, nbc, cbs, or abc is on whatever tv plan they have, and they will be able to tell you immediately.  ask them what channel tbs is and more often than not they will not know because, by comparison, nobody watches tbs.  what's the lead-in to a baseball game on fox (local news that advertises the game), or what's the regular programming that's being pre-empted (at least one highly rated sitcom or drama)? compare that to the lead-in or regular programming for tbs (seinfeld reruns?).

when games are on non-espn cable, you're basically catering to the people who are already serious fans, who are willing to search out the game among the hundreds of channels on their cable or satellite package.  mlb is getting their loyal viewership, and tbs is getting the percentage of those loyal baseball viewers who will later tune into tbs slightly more often to watch their random crappy shows.  what mlb doesn't get is a casual fan, or even non-fan who watches the game because it's right in front of their face, and it seems like something important enough for them to at least take note of.  the end result is that mlb becomes marginalized as a sport, rather than being the event sport that it is/was.

this deal, similar to directv deal with nfl sunday ticket, is a struggling media company using its media giant parent corporation to overpay for the rights to a loss leader.  the result is more short term money for mlb, but less fans exposed to the games in the long term.  and this type of practice is wholly symptomatic of the selig's sheister motto, the same motto that threatened legal action against its own fan websites, took legal action against its own fantasy owners, and has manipulated countless taxpayers into providing wealthy old white men with hundred-million dollar assets, only to turn back around and hustle those same taxpayers out of increased ticket fees, concession fees, and merchandising fees.

As someone else who doesn't have cable, I just want to throw in a "what he said" to this.

[Duman]

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well, i don't have cable, and no tin foil in my house except for leftovers, but that's beside the point.

casual viewers are more likely to watch a game when it is on the networks because it seems more like an event, it is easier to find on the tv dial, and the networks still get far more viewers than any cable channel.  ask any person on the street what channel fox, nbc, cbs, or abc is on whatever tv plan they have, and they will be able to tell you immediately.  ask them what channel tbs is and more often than not they will not know because, by comparison, nobody watches tbs.  what's the lead-in to a baseball game on fox (local news that advertises the game), or what's the regular programming that's being pre-empted (at least one highly rated sitcom or drama)? compare that to the lead-in or regular programming for tbs (seinfeld reruns?).

when games are on non-espn cable, you're basically catering to the people who are already serious fans, who are willing to search out the game among the hundreds of channels on their cable or satellite package.  mlb is getting their loyal viewership, and tbs is getting the percentage of those loyal baseball viewers who will later tune into tbs slightly more often to watch their random crappy shows.  what mlb doesn't get is a casual fan, or even non-fan who watches the game because it's right in front of their face, and it seems like something important enough for them to at least take note of.  the end result is that mlb becomes marginalized as a sport, rather than being the event sport that it is/was.

this deal, similar to directv deal with nfl sunday ticket, is a struggling media company using its media giant parent corporation to overpay for the rights to a loss leader.  the result is more short term money for mlb, but less fans exposed to the games in the long term.  and this type of practice is wholly symptomatic of the selig's sheister motto, the same motto that threatened legal action against its own fan websites, took legal action against its own fantasy owners, and has manipulated countless taxpayers into providing wealthy old white men with hundred-million dollar assets, only to turn back around and hustle those same taxpayers out of increased ticket fees, concession fees, and merchandising fees.

As someone else who doesn't have cable, I just want to throw in a "what he said" to this.

I too don't have cable and "amen" the comments above.

[David in Jackson]

At least TBS isn't FOX Family.  Wasn't that the station (that I had never heard of before, and haven't since) that showed some of the Division Series games a few years back?

Also, I assume this move is connected to the impending sale of the Braves, and the breaking of their long-time relationship with WTBS (which has been hugely successful marketing the team nationwide).

[strosrays]

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There are an estimated 110.9 million television households in the USA. Cable has 65.5 millions subscribers. There are 30 million satellite television subscribers. I guess they figure the 15 million that still get free TV over the air, aren't the kind of fans MLB wants.

The thing that helped the Braves it the thing that ended up hurting them. Cable TV. WTBS was primed for the growth of the cable tv industry. The Braves capitalized off the success of WTBS' initial proliferation in homes across america as the cable industry boomed in the mid to late 70s. As cable tv further took root, in time most MLB teams came up with their own regional coverages, also on cable. For instance, given the choice in Florida or Colorado, why would anyone choose a shittily produced Braves snooze fest, when one could embrace the local heros with gusto and pride, still, while never leaving the comforts of home.

They generally had mediocre to worse announcers, and I was never a fan of the team, but I retain a certain fondness for TBS Braves telecasts, all the same.  Once TBS and the Braves were ensconced on basic cable, one usually had baseball to watch every night, which back in the 1970's was a pretty big deal.  

Plus, like FSN sometimes does now, TBS used to rebroadcast the games at 2:00 in the morning or thereabouts.  I would stagger in hammered (I was in college by then) in the wee hours and lay on the floor in front of the TV, watching the Braves get smoked again.  Then wake up at 7 AM, still on the floor, to Hogan's Heroes re-runs.  At one point I was living in a 'coed' dorm -- one wing all male, the other all female, with a common room with sectionals and a wide screen in between -- and I would come dragging in expecting the place to be relatively quiet at 4 AM on a Tuesday night, and there'd be 15 or twenty people, men and women, laying around on those sectionals watching a re-run of the Braves.  Good times.

We used to think it was pretentious (and ludicrous) that TBS called Atlanta America's Team, especially since back then they seemed to go 64-98 every year.  But you know, I think of those teams kind of fondly now.  It was fun to come in drunk and settle in front of the television's warm and embracing glow, secure in the knowledge I was watching no doubt another Braves ignominous defeat, or at least the replay of one.  And some of the magical names from back then -- Rowland Office, Biff Pocoroba, Ruffino "Ruffy" Linares, Rafael "Raffy" Ramirez -- can still bring a smile.

It was a little startling to read TBS would no longer broadcast the Braves at all.  Wow.  Another casualty to progress and the endless pursuit of greater markets, like the German Shepherd in a necktie WTBS at one time employed to 'read' the news, like Ted Turner under-the-table drunk at a team press conference, announcing he was now manager of the team.

So long, Braves.  Maybe you really were at one time (Trailer Park) America's Team.  Anytime I get to feeling too melancholy about it, though, I'll just remember it was TBS who first polluted our airwaves with John Sterling.  I don't know that even gauzy nostalgia can outweigh that.

[Gizzmonic]

I will miss the Braves on TBS, them and the Cubbies on WGN are a big reason I'm such a baseball fan.

Without ESPN, the divisional series will not be in HD, unless HDNet picks it up.  That's a step in the wrong direction as well.

Looks like baseball fans are getting screwed again.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

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Plus, like FSN sometimes does now, TBS used to rebroadcast the games at 2:00 in the morning or thereabouts.  I would stagger in hammered (I was in college by then) in the wee hours and lay on the floor in front of the TV, watching the Braves get smoked again.  Then wake up at 7 AM, still on the floor, to Hogan's Heroes re-runs.  

Though not remembering what was on whilst passing out, I remember waking up, still on the floor, to Hogan's Heroes re-runs too. Good times.

[T. J.]

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I will miss the Braves on TBS, them and the Cubbies on WGN are a big reason I'm such a baseball fan.

Without ESPN, the divisional series will not be in HD, unless HDNet picks it up.  That's a step in the wrong direction as well.

Looks like baseball fans are getting screwed again.

There's a high-def TNT channel.  I'd bet they put 'em on there.

[CJM]

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I will miss the Braves on TBS, them and the Cubbies on WGN are a big reason I'm such a baseball fan.

Without ESPN, the divisional series will not be in HD, unless HDNet picks it up.  That's a step in the wrong direction as well.

Looks like baseball fans are getting screwed again.

There's a high-def TNT channel.  I'd bet they put 'em on there.

That would be my guess too.  Sort of like Universal HD showing The US Open in HD on Thursday and Friday while it was being shown in SD on USA network.  Either that, or it could be a excuse for TBS to come out with a HD station similar to their sister station TNT.  Baseball playoff games in HD could be a good way to pressure cable systems to add your new HD channel to their lineups (although TWC still hasn't added ESPN2-HD or NFL Network).

[Arky Vaughan]

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I guess they figure the 15 million that still get free TV over the air, aren't the kind of fans MLB wants.

Not necessarily. It's a matter of whether it's worth leaving money on the table to accommodate their preference not to have cable or satellite.

[Arky Vaughan]

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this deal, similar to directv deal with nfl sunday ticket, is a struggling media company using its media giant parent corporation to overpay for the rights to a loss leader.  the result is more short term money for mlb, but less fans exposed to the games in the long term.

This is the best argument I've read so far of why it's a bad deal. I wonder what the terms of contract are and what the comparable offers were.

It could also be that the broadcast networks don't see enough advertising revenue in baseball any more to make it worth their while to pay the carry the stuff.

[Arky Vaughan]

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That would be my guess too.  Sort of like Universal HD showing The US Open in HD on Thursday and Friday while it was being shown in SD on USA network.  Either that, or it could be a excuse for TBS to come out with a HD station similar to their sister station TNT.  Baseball playoff games in HD could be a good way to pressure cable systems to add your new HD channel to their lineups (although TWC still hasn't added ESPN2-HD or NFL Network).

DirecTV alleges that it will be carrying many more HD channels by 2008. A lot of the pay channels are starting to shoot their programs in HD.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

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I guess they figure the 15 million that still get free TV over the air, aren't the kind of fans MLB wants.

Not necessarily. It's a matter of whether it's worth leaving money on the table to accommodate their preference not to have cable or satellite.

I was just making a flippant remark, not really an analysis.

And it's just a percentage of 15 million that would watch baseball anyway. I would be susprised to find out that people who subscribe to a television content delivery system, didn't watch more television than non-subscribers. Which is important because of how it effects viewership patterns, programming decisions and advertising.

[Phil_in_CS]

And as to why baseball is getting shoved off the broadcast networks....  Ratings continue to decline

[S.P. Rodriguez]

With any luck, we'll get more unscripted reality type shows!

Kidding aside, I'm not sure why I wonder, at age 32, how I find myself watching A&E, The History Channel, and IFC more and more...

[EasTexAstro]

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With any luck, we'll get more unscripted reality type shows!

Kidding aside, I'm not sure why I wonder, at age 32, how I find myself watching A&E, The History Channel, and IFC more and more...

Come on, you know you Tivo  The View

[S.P. Rodriguez]

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With any luck, we'll get more unscripted reality type shows!

Kidding aside, I'm not sure why I wonder, at age 32, how I find myself watching A&E, The History Channel, and IFC more and more...

Come on, you know you Tivo  The View

Only the clips that make it on "The Soup".  Now that show, and I realize it's on E!, is damn funny.  Joel McHale is a funny bastard.  I can't say I cared for any of the previous hosts of that show.

p.s. How are you doing?  I have (edited to add) NOT chatted with you in quite some time.

[EasTexAstro]

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With any luck, we'll get more unscripted reality type shows!

Kidding aside, I'm not sure why I wonder, at age 32, how I find myself watching A&E, The History Channel, and IFC more and more...

Come on, you know you Tivo  The View

Only the clips that make it on "The Soup".  Now that show, and I realize it's on E!, is damn funny.  Joel McHale is a funny bastard.  I can't say I cared for any of the previous hosts of that show.

p.s. How are you doing?  I have (edited to add) NOT chatted with you in quite some time.

No sense killing a thread talking about me. You should know better than that now.....though...once The View is brought up, that pretty much signals the end, doesn't it?

[Jose Cruz III]

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More money, less viewers?

this has, sadly, pretty much been the mlb motto in the selig era.

Before satellite TV, I had to follow the Astros from the boxscores in the paper. So I will take what we have now every time I am offered it.