The Time Has Come

[Alkie]

And I have decided to root for the Cardinals in the NLCS and hope for a repeat of the '68 Series (teams and result).  

1) I cannot root for the steM.  I would hate for the Cards to win the whole thing before us as division rivals, but I cannot see any good coming from the steM winning a pennant.  At least it would be nice to say "we play in the division that has won the last 3 NL pennants."  

2) I know the Cardinals pretty well.  I could learn more about the steM.  But why?  I hate the fucking goddamn steM.

3) East Coast vs Fly Over Country.  I've always made a point of rooting for the midlanders over the coasters, so why stop now?

4) We took the season series 9-7 over the Cards.  We got murdered by the steM.  Even if the Cards win the pennant, we'll still have been better than them this year.  Sort of.  Ok, not really.  But it makes me feel better.

5) When it really came down to it, I hate and have almost no respect for Beltran.  However, while I hate having to face Pujols 19 times a year, I think he's one of, if not THE, greatest hitters of all time.  I hate to say it because he's a Cardinal, but I think Pujols is one of the best things to happen to baseball in a while.  Finally, a super super super star who hits out of his mind 100% of the time, who ISN'T a major league asshole.  Beltran is a whore.  Let me put it another way.  I wouldn't trade Oswalt for ARod or Tejada or Soriano, but I'd give him up in a heartbeat for Pujols.

6) I can go right back to rooting against the Cards in a week.

[Dobro]

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...I think Pujols is one of the best things to happen to baseball in a while.  Finally, a super super super star who hits out of his mind 100% of the time, who ISN'T a major league asshole...

Alkie, I'm covinced.  You slipped and hit your head.  You ain't right, brother.  Tell your wife to bludgeon you in the coconut repeatedly with an iron skillet until you denounce the this newfound love for Pooholes.  It ain't right.

[Outlawscotty]

I concur.  However my reasoning may be different.  The Mets loaded up, whereas the Cardinals are the underdog.  Granted Pooholes is an ass, but a great player.  Beltran and his ill-advised decision as it may seem, cancels Edmonds' antics.  Pedro being out, along with possibly Floyd, levels the playing field.  Isringhousen out, and possibly Rolen, un-levels the playing field again.  All things considered, I wouldn't mind seeing PW and Viz capture the buzz, as I realize quality people when I see them.  The story changes however, if the Tigers win the AL.

[MusicMan]

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...I think Pujols is one of the best things to happen to baseball in a while.  Finally, a super super super star who hits out of his mind 100% of the time, who ISN'T a major league asshole...

Alkie, I'm covinced.  You slipped and hit your head.  You ain't right, brother.  Tell your wife to bludgeon you in the coconut repeatedly with an iron skillet until you denounce the this newfound love for Pooholes.  It ain't right.

If you could surgically remove the gene that forces Pujols to stand around watching his HRs like a damn tourist, he'd be my favorite non-Astro.  Watching him hit is like an eduction on hitting in every AB.

[toddthebod]

Fuck the SteM and the Jakes.  A pox on both of their houses.  And I hope it rains today.  All day.

Best case scenario (setting aside massive injuries to both teams and/or natural disasters), the two teams battle it out for 7 games and the winner gets swept in the WS.

Go Tigers.

[VirtualBob]

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Fuck the SteM and the Jakes.  A pox on both of their houses.  And I hope it rains today.  All day.

Best case scenario (setting aside massive injuries to both teams and/or natural disasters), the two teams battle it out for 7 games and the winner gets swept in the WS.

Go Tigers.

Nate Robertson is Mickey Lolich reincarnate.

[Alkie]

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Best case scenario (setting aside massive injuries to both teams and/or natural disasters), the two teams battle it out for 7 games  

Oh no.  No no no no no.  Todd...look!

What we need is for it to be the most boring 4-game sweep ever.  Total domination on either side.  I want sportswriters across the country, who will have nothing to write about for 4 days at the end of the week, to pine for the days of Astros in the NLCS.  The last two NLCS' were two of the best in recent history.  Tremendous baseball, lots of drama, big time superstars, great pitching.

I get what you're saying, and I hope the Tigers win the whole thing too, but don't let it go 7, we'll have to hear about it forever.

As for falling and hitting my head, nah man, it ain't like that.  I don't love Pujols; he's a Cardinal.  But you're a fool if you can't appreciate what you're watching.  If he just hit monstrous homeruns, that would be one thing, but this guy is a career .330+ hitter (or close, I didn't look it up).  MM is right, if he didn't admire his HRs, he'd be more respectable, but geez guys, just because he's the biggest of the enemies doesn't mean you can't respect his baseball skills.  

Plus, I read an article (not from St Louis) about him last night, and it seems like he really is a swell fellow off the field.  Not the sort of fellow who lights cats on fire.

[headhunter]

No, that time isn't here yet, at least not for me. I can't get with the "if you can't beat them join them" theory of fanaticism. I don't care who wins once the astros are out of the race. I do care who loses. I enjoy a Yankees loss (especially when an ex-Astro has the winning run) or a Braves loss (heh heh heh), or a Mets loss (or plane crash) or a cards loss (or still sweeter, sweep). No, I only enjoy an Astros win.

[Bench]

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I concur.  However my reasoning may be different.  The Mets loaded up, whereas the Cardinals are the underdog.  Granted Pooholes is an ass, but a great player.  Beltran and his ill-advised decision as it may seem, cancels Edmonds' antics.  Pedro being out, along with possibly Floyd, levels the playing field.  Isringhousen out, and possibly Rolen, un-levels the playing field again.  All things considered, I wouldn't mind seeing PW and Viz capture the buzz, as I realize quality people when I see them.  The story changes however, if the Tigers win the AL.

I've never understood the vitriol reserved for Beltran. I thought he played mighty well when he was on the Astros, and gave us a thrilling October ride. He never lied to the fans during the offseason. Sure, he hired a jerk, but so what. A lot of people hire jerks. Then, he signed with the Mets and the Astros won their first pennant in league history. How did he harm the team? What was so awful?

Whereas Pujols is a smug smirking sonofabitch who always hurts the Astros when he plays and I could never root for him. Sure he's a phenomenal hitter, and nothing is more awe-inspiring than watching him take BP, much less come to bat in a crucial point in a game. But I still can't root for him. I'd rather hear about David Wright's "specialness" than Eckstein's "scrappiness." I'd rather see Pedro doing sad goofy things in the dugout than LaRussa staring blankly onto the field. Fuck the Cards. I'd rather see the Mets lose to the Tigers than see the Cards in the Fall Classic.

[Dobro]

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I've never understood the vitriol reserved for Beltran. I thought he played mighty well when he was on the Astros, and gave us a thrilling October ride. He never lied to the fans during the offseason. Sure, he hired a jerk, but so what. A lot of people hire jerks. Then, he signed with the Mets and the Astros won their first pennant in league history. How did he harm the team? What was so awful?

Are you kidding?  Fuck The Whore.

My, my, how quickly you forget.

[Bench]

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I've never understood the vitriol reserved for Beltran. I thought he played mighty well when he was on the Astros, and gave us a thrilling October ride. He never lied to the fans during the offseason. Sure, he hired a jerk, but so what. A lot of people hire jerks. Then, he signed with the Mets and the Astros won their first pennant in league history. How did he harm the team? What was so awful?

Are you kidding?  Fuck The Whore.

My, my, how quickly you forget.

I haven't forgotten anything. Sure, I was hoping he would sign with the Astros, and yes, it was annoying that Drayton and Co allowed themselves to be maneuvered into a poor position by Boras which hancuffed much of the offseason. But I just can't see it as an awful cataclysmic event. I didn't at the time, and I sure as hell didn't when I was sitting in the stands watching the Astros play World Series baseball.

[Phil_in_CS]

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Go Tigers.

I think the last time I pulled for an AL team was when I was in little league and I thought early 70's Oakland A's handle bar mustaches were cool.

I think this year I will just sit back and watch, and hope for some good baseball.

[austro]

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I think this year I will just sit back and watch, and hope for some good baseball.

Like the Detroit outfield last night, or the 26 double plays turned in 9 innings by the infield.  Or the double plays that *weren't* turned against Detroit.  Last night's game was a classic demonstration of the things that are available to a team with speed.

And did you see The Big Hurt slogging from 1st to 3rd on that double?  He may redefine "slow".

[Gizzmonic]

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I've never understood the vitriol reserved for Beltran. I thought he played mighty well when he was on the Astros, and gave us a thrilling October ride. He never lied to the fans during the offseason. Sure, he hired a jerk, but so what. A lot of people hire jerks. Then, he signed with the Mets and the Astros won their first pennant in league history. How did he harm the team? What was so awful?

You don't think the 2005 Astros would have won the WS, or at least a few games of it, if it would have been Beltran in CF instead of Tavares?  The 2006 Astros would probably be in the playoffs this year as well, and maybe even the favorites to win the NL (taking away Beltran from the Mets and adding him to CF in the Astros).

And "he hired a jerk" is as good a defense as "I was only following orders."  He deceived the fans and the Astros organization.  It was a shitty thing to do, and he'll be booed every time he visits Minute Maid Park from now on.

That being said, I doubt any Astro fan is focusing many thoughts on Beltran at this point.  The affair is long over.

But I'm still hoping the Cards knock off the Mets, I don't understand how an Astro fan can root for that shithole of an organization.  The Cards are, at the very least, a respectable adversary.

[Bench]

I hate 'em both, but proximity breeds resentment, so I dislike the Cards the more.

[Bench]

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I've never understood the vitriol reserved for Beltran. I thought he played mighty well when he was on the Astros, and gave us a thrilling October ride. He never lied to the fans during the offseason. Sure, he hired a jerk, but so what. A lot of people hire jerks. Then, he signed with the Mets and the Astros won their first pennant in league history. How did he harm the team? What was so awful?

You don't think the 2005 Astros would have won the WS, or at least a few games of it, if it would have been Beltran in CF instead of Tavares?  The 2006 Astros would probably be in the playoffs this year as well, and maybe even the favorites to win the NL (taking away Beltran from the Mets and adding him to CF in the Astros).

 

And I also think that is far too speculative to hang your hat on.

[Arky Vaughan]

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And I also think that is far too speculative to hang your hat on.

So would they have been a worse team if they replaced Roy Oswalt with Jeff Suppan? Or is that too speculative of a suggestion?

[Reuben]

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And I also think that is far too speculative to hang your hat on.

So would they have been a worse team if they replaced Roy Oswalt with Jeff Suppan? Or is that too speculative of a suggestion?

I don't think so, but it is rather speculative to say they would've won the 2005 WS with Beltran instead of Taveras. The regular season is much different. I'm sure you're well aware of that.

That said, I certainly don't love the Mets, but I will not pull for the Cardinals.

[cougar]

I haven't watched a single pitch on the playoffs, not even accidentally, and I don't intend to.

Well, that's not completely true.  I have to watch 20 minutes of Yankees and/or Mets (hopefully the Evil Empire's ouster will change that) highlights before I get 10 minutes of everything else crammed in together on ESPNNews.  Nothing live though.

[austro]

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I haven't watched a single pitch on the playoffs, not even accidentally, and I don't intend to.

Then you're missing a very interesting Detroit team.  They're fun to watch.

This gets back to the point in another thread: it's too bad that the rest of the nation had to wait for this team to make the playoffs before they received any exposure.  What other good young players are being ignored so that we can watch all 22 installments of the Yankess/RedSox?

[strosrays]

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Go Tigers.

I think the last time I pulled for an AL team was when I was in little league and I thought early 70's Oakland A's handle bar mustaches were cool.

I think this year I will just sit back and watch, and hope for some good baseball.

I have been quietly hoping for a Tigers-Cards WS since Houston was eliminated, for selfish reasons.  The 1968 Series is the first one I have any recollection of - I was 8, and must have watched it with my father.

All I really remember is that I fixated on the Tigers, all those great players, Kaline and Horton and Norm Cash and Lolich and McLain, et al.  I started batting left-handed in whiffle ball, to imitate Jim Northrup, and I even had a decent imitation of Dick McAuliffe's odd stance.  As a result, the Tigers were a secondary favorite of mine for some time, I think until the '68 guys were all gone.  I know by 1984, when they went back to the WS, I didn't have any particular emotional attachment to them (though I wanted them to win it, for sartorial reasons -- baseball could not afford a champion with such a hideous color scheme on their uniforms as the Padres had.)

I like this Tiger team, though.  Not because they dominated the Yankees, and appear poised to hand the A's ass to them.  I just like watching them play, a different guy is the big contributor every night (Alexis Gomez?!), and when they take a lead they seem to know how to hold it, and when they get behind they seem to play even harder.

Needless to say, I'm on their bandwagon.  And given the Cards style, I think those two would be more fun to watch than Mets-Tigers... though Mets-A's would be fun, too (1973 rematch), but I don't know if that could even happen now.

[Alkie]

I don't believe in God, but does anyone else find it interesting that the-God-of-your-choice also isn't interested in seeing the Cards and steM in the NLCS?  Will this series ever actually happen?

[toddthebod]

I like the Tigers because they have Carlos Guillen.  Aside from the fact that he's a former Astro, he's been on my fantasy baseball team for the past 3 years (I always find a way to get him on my team).  I wish the Astros could find a way to get him back.  Guillen is one of the more unappreciated players in baseball.

[Alkie]

I had completely forgotten that M Ordonez was an Astro until last night.

What is the point of the Venezolano Academy if we're just going to let Johan Santana and Magglio Ordonez play elsewhere?

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I just hate the Mets.

[toddthebod]

Superficially, it would appear that the Astros give up too quickly on their Venezuelan players -- Ordonez, Mora, Santana, Abreu.  I'm sure that this is not the case, but you could easily get that impression from looking at the players that were in the Astros academy who have become superstars in MLB but who were simply let go from the Astros.

[Froback]

Just thinking of the media's response when you end up with a Detroit/3rdnals series instead of their hoped for NY/NY series makes me smile.

[MusicMan]

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I had completely forgotten that M Ordonez was an Astro until last night.

What is the point of the Venezolano Academy if we're just going to let Johan Santana and Magglio Ordonez play elsewhere?

Oh, for the last fucking time.

Johan Santana wasn't "let go".  He was drafted in Rule 5 by a team with no fucking major league talent, and traded to another team with no fucking major league talent, and developed a pitch that he never had with the Astros.

The only way the Astros would have put Johan Santana on the 40-man roster is if they had a goddamned time machine.

[MusicMan]

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Superficially, it would appear that the Astros give up too quickly on their Venezuelan players -- Ordonez, Mora, Santana, Abreu.  I'm sure that this is not the case, but you could easily get that impression from looking at the players that were in the Astros academy who have become superstars in MLB but who were simply let go from the Astros.

Abreu was "let go" in favor of another player from the VZ academy.  We can discuss the failure to leave Mr. Shutdown unprotected instead until the cows come home, but Gerry clearly felt it was a call between Hidalgo and Abreu.

Melvin Mora wasn't worth a bucket of warm piss until he was 31.  Most teams will not be that patient.

[Alkie]

We don't have a goddamn time machine?

Purpura should be fired.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

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We don't have a goddamn time machine?

Purpura should be fired.

Screw the time machine.  Since when is a warm bucket of piss not worth something?  How else do you take a "hot foot" joke and turn it up a notch if not with a warm bucket of piss?

[Ty in Tampa]

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What is the point of the Venezolano Academy...?

To line Hugo's pockets, of course.

[Lefty]

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I don't believe in God, but does anyone else find it interesting that the-God-of-your-choice also isn't interested in seeing the Cards and steM in the NLCS?  Will this series ever actually happen?

Not surprised at all.  I'm convinced he was holding this:

According to the Russian astronomer Nikolai Fedorovsky, a giant comet flying at top speed is bound for Earth. Should the comet stay on the collision course, it may hit the planet in late October.

in reserve in case of a Subway Series.

Thanks to the Tigers, life will continue.

[austro]

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Screw the time machine.  Since when is a warm bucket of piss not worth something?  How else do you take a "hot foot" joke and turn it up a notch if not with a warm bucket of piss?

I've been trying to figure out if a warm bucket of piss is worth more -- or less -- than a cool bucket of piss.  You know, just in case the subject comes up at a poker game or something.

[toddthebod]

Melvin Mora was a solid .280s batting (.350s OBP) middle infielder? for the Astos.  No power.  Some speed. His stats from 1997 at AAA New Orleans -- his last season in the organization when he was 25 -- were not particularly good.  I don't blame the Astros for getting rid of him.  

It's just a shame that the Astros developed this really great academy in Venezuela but have never really reaped the benefits of having this academy.

[strosrays]

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Melvin Mora was a solid .280s batting (.350s OBP) middle infielder? for the Astos.  No power.  Some speed. His stats from 1997 at AAA New Orleans -- his last season in the organization when he was 25 -- were not particularly good.  I don't blame the Astros for getting rid of him.  

It's just a shame that the Astros developed this really great academy in Venezuela but have never really reaped the benefits of having this academy.

Re: Abreu.  It is interesting that two teams fans raise hell about that expansion draft, because as soon as they drafted him, the Devil Rays traded him to Philly for Kevin Stocker.  It was supposedly a pre-arranged deal.  I think I'd rather be the guy who passed on Abreu in favor of Hidalgo than Kevin Stocker.  Anyway, for what it is worth, Abreu wasn't very impressive in his Astros stint.  I'm pretty sure most people thought Hidalgo was the better of them at the time, if that was the choice.

I've been wondering, with Chavez running around the world making an ass of himself, well, he's probably going to be assassinated by the CIA... but if not, does this turn of his regime mean the spigot for players coming from Venezuela get turned down or off?

[cougar]

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Melvin Mora was a solid .280s batting (.350s OBP) middle infielder? for the Astos.  No power.  Some speed. His stats from 1997 at AAA New Orleans -- his last season in the organization when he was 25 -- were not particularly good.  I don't blame the Astros for getting rid of him.  

It's just a shame that the Astros developed this really great academy in Venezuela but have never really reaped the benefits of having this academy.

Re: Abreu.  It is interesting that two teams fans raise hell about that expansion draft, because as soon as they drafted him, the Devil Rays traded him to Philly for Kevin Stocker.  It was supposedly a pre-arranged deal.  I think I'd rather be the guy who passed on Abreu in favor of Hidalgo than Kevin Stocker.  Anyway, for what it is worth, Abreu wasn't very impressive in his Astros stint.  I'm pretty sure most people thought Hidalgo was the better of them at the time, if that was the choice.

I've been wondering, with Chavez running around the world making an ass of himself, well, he's probably going to be assassinated by the CIA... but if not, does this turn of his regime mean the spigot for players coming from Venezuela get turned down or off?

Nah Chavez'll just make sure that somehow the Venezuelan government gets a part of their contract a la Yao Ming.  He can hate America's imperialistic pigdogs all he wants but no way in hell would he pass up the possibility of getting his hands on a sizeable chunk of American currency.

[Alkie]

Game's actually on and I actually can't do it.  I can't root for either team.

This is very difficult for me.  I usually find a reason to root for one team in every sporting event I watch.  

While I'd rather the steM not make the WS, I can't witness these games and "root" for the Cardinals.  

I wanted to.  I just can't do it.

Let's be clear.  I ain't rooting for Glavine and his goddamn fucking Mets either.

[austro]

Something will happen in the next couple of days that will set you up.  Weaver may do something so assholey that it pushes you over the edge for the Mets, or Beltran will do something that gets you on the Card's side, or something.  Just wait.