Palmeiro?

[Jake]

I know a lot of people here are pro-Orlando, and in the past, I was too.  But I have to wonder why on earth does Garner pinch hit with Palmeiro tonight?  With Lamb, Scott and Huff as lefties on the bench, it just seems crazy.  Palmeiro is hitting below .230, yet somehow finds a way into almost every game.

I realize I don't post a lot, but I just wanted some feedback on this issue.

[mihoba]

Quote:
I realize I don't post a lot, but I just wanted some feedback on this issue.

Well, for one thing, Huff pinch hit in the 4th, so he was gone. Palmeiro is a contact hitter, and rarely strikes out. A damn good bench player that is also signed for next year. I'm sure Lamb was saved for the later innings, just in case.

ETA: Palmeiro was 2-6 against the submarining Bradford before tonight, so he was the player most familiar with his funky delivery.

[Zan]

Quote:
Palmeiro is a contact hitter, and rarely strikes out. A damn good bench player that is also signed for next year.

I love Palmeiro. But calling him "a damn good bench player" is a stretch.

[Limey]

You might want to check the site glossary and re-think your handle.  Or not.  'Tis up to you.

[Jake]

Forgot about Huff, and did not know OP's history against the submariner.  Thanks for the info.  

It still seems like OP is going for the record number of pinch hit appearances in a season.

[pravata]

Quote:

Quote:
Palmeiro is a contact hitter, and rarely strikes out. A damn good bench player that is also signed for next year.

I love Palmeiro. But calling him "a damn good bench player" is a stretch.

What are you looking for in a bench player?

[Zan]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
Palmeiro is a contact hitter, and rarely strikes out. A damn good bench player that is also signed for next year.

I love Palmeiro. But calling him "a damn good bench player" is a stretch.

What are you looking for in a bench player?

I think it depends. And I'm a fan of Palmeiro, by the way. My only point is that "damn good" is an overstatement.

[JimR]

no, it is not.

[Duder]

There's a big difference between being a "damn good" player and a "damn good" bench player.  So, I don't think it is an overstatement at all to call Palmeiro a "damn good" bench player.  He does his job well.

[Zan]

Quote:
There's a big difference between being a "damn good" player and a "damn good" bench player.  So, I don't think it is an overstatement at all to call Palmeiro a "damn good" bench player.  He does his job well.

If I understand you correctly, you're citing a self-evident clarification as evidence of your conclusion.

[Zan]

Quote:
no, it is not.

Perhaps it's just a semantic difference. I'll move on...

[mihoba]

Quote:
It still seems like OP is going for the record number of pinch hit appearances in a season.

Well, the record is 95, so OP is going to come up short, as he sits at 69 appearances.

Who hold that record? Anyone wanna guess?

[JimR]

Jerry Lynch?

Smokey Burgess?

[HurricaneDavid]

Lenny Harris?

[mihoba]

Quote:
Lenny Harris?

Yep, in 2001 with the Mets.

[mihoba]

Quote:
Jerry Lynch?

Lynch shares the record (w/ Cronin & Staub) for most PH RBI's in a season with 25.

 PH records

[chuckd]

What does he have on Garner that Garner uses him so much?The bat on monday called for a hit not contact. There were 2 outs.

[No? in Austin]

Quote:
What does he have on Garner that Garner uses him so much?The bat on monday called for a hit not contact. There were 2 outs.

Contact is the way a hit comes about.  You put the ball in play, many things can happen.  I'm sure the question from most is why use Palmeiro instead of Luke Scott.

1. Palmeiro is a veteran bench player.
2. Luke Scott is not a veteran nor a bench player.
3. Veteran bench players know how to pinch hit and what is necessary in terms of approach.
4. Non-veteran bench players find it hard to do what is considered the hardest job in baseball because they're not used to the proper approach to pinch hitting.

So all in all, it was a calculated move by Scrap Iron.  That is didn't work out does not mean it wasn't the proper move.  Execution is the worse way to judge a managerial move.

[David in Jackson]

I like Orlando, but he's had a miserable season and may be nearing the end.

He's had 6 walks this season.  He has no power.  His BA is way down. His speed is average.

Palmeiro does generally work the count well, is a smart baserunner, and plays a good corner OF.  He's way down from the decent year he turned in last year, much less the good couple of years we got from Orlando Merced in a similar role.  He's in Mieske-territory.

[Bench]

Quote:

Quote:
What does he have on Garner that Garner uses him so much?The bat on monday called for a hit not contact. There were 2 outs.

Contact is the way a hit comes about.  You put the ball in play, many things can happen.  I'm sure the question from most is why use Palmeiro instead of Luke Scott.

1. Palmeiro is a veteran bench player.
2. Luke Scott is not a veteran nor a bench player.
3. Veteran bench players know how to pinch hit and what is necessary in terms of approach.
4. Non-veteran bench players find it hard to do what is considered the hardest job in baseball because they're not used to the proper approach to pinch hitting.

So all in all, it was a calculated move by Scrap Iron.  That is didn't work out does not mean it wasn't the proper move.  Execution is the worse way to judge a managerial move.

His approach is great: he works the count, fouls off pitches, makes the pitcher show him everything he's got. It just seems that this season his swing is off so when he finally does get that pitch he's waiting for, he meekly grounds out to the pitcher or second base.

[pravata]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
What does he have on Garner that Garner uses him so much?The bat on monday called for a hit not contact. There were 2 outs.

Contact is the way a hit comes about.  You put the ball in play, many things can happen.  I'm sure the question from most is why use Palmeiro instead of Luke Scott.

1. Palmeiro is a veteran bench player.
2. Luke Scott is not a veteran nor a bench player.
3. Veteran bench players know how to pinch hit and what is necessary in terms of approach.
4. Non-veteran bench players find it hard to do what is considered the hardest job in baseball because they're not used to the proper approach to pinch hitting.

So all in all, it was a calculated move by Scrap Iron.  That is didn't work out does not mean it wasn't the proper move.  Execution is the worse way to judge a managerial move.

His approach is great: he works the count, fouls off pitches, makes the pitcher show him everything he's got. It just seems that this season his swing is off so when he finally does get that pitch he's waiting for, he meekly grounds out to the pitcher or second base.

December 8, 2005, Dallas, TX -- Astros re-sign Orlando Palmeiro... to a two-year, $1.9 million contract on Thursday. The Link

Either we go with Noe's explanation or "he got somethin on Garner".

[Bench]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
What does he have on Garner that Garner uses him so much?The bat on monday called for a hit not contact. There were 2 outs.

Contact is the way a hit comes about.  You put the ball in play, many things can happen.  I'm sure the question from most is why use Palmeiro instead of Luke Scott.

1. Palmeiro is a veteran bench player.
2. Luke Scott is not a veteran nor a bench player.
3. Veteran bench players know how to pinch hit and what is necessary in terms of approach.
4. Non-veteran bench players find it hard to do what is considered the hardest job in baseball because they're not used to the proper approach to pinch hitting.

So all in all, it was a calculated move by Scrap Iron.  That is didn't work out does not mean it wasn't the proper move.  Execution is the worse way to judge a managerial move.

His approach is great: he works the count, fouls off pitches, makes the pitcher show him everything he's got. It just seems that this season his swing is off so when he finally does get that pitch he's waiting for, he meekly grounds out to the pitcher or second base.

December 8, 2005, Dallas, TX -- Astros re-sign Orlando Palmeiro... to a two-year, $1.9 million contract on Thursday. The Link

Either we go with Noe's explanation or "he got somethin on Garner".

Noe's obviously correct. OP has a great approach, which is why he's been a very good pinch hitter over his career. It's just not working out for him this season like it has in the past; he puts the ball in play but doesn't consistently hit it as sqaurely as he has in seasons passed (past?). That suggests to me that while he still has the terrific pinch hitting approach, something changed in his swing. The lesson, suffice to say, is that pinch hitting is really difficult, and one is better off sending up a professional hitter with the right approach as being more likely to succeed than someone who has had recent success hitting as a starter.

OP's track record evidently warranted a two year deal to keep him from slipping away, and his track record also suggests that this year his relative lack of success is the exception and not the rule.

[Arky Vaughan]

Quote:
The lesson, suffice to say, is that pinch hitting is really difficult, and one is better off sending up a professional hitter with the right approach as being more likely to succeed than someone who has had recent success hitting as a starter.

I know that if I had Berkman on the bench, I'd certainly prefer Palmeiro over him.

[No? in Austin]

Quote:

Quote:
The lesson, suffice to say, is that pinch hitting is really difficult, and one is better off sending up a professional hitter with the right approach as being more likely to succeed than someone who has had recent success hitting as a starter.

I know that if I had Berkman on the bench, I'd certainly prefer Palmeiro over him.

Why would Berkman be on your bench?

[No? in Austin]

Quote:
It's just not working out for him this season like it has in the past; he puts the ball in play but doesn't consistently hit it as sqaurely as he has in seasons passed (past?). That suggests to me that while he still has the terrific pinch hitting approach, something changed in his swing.

In such a case, you look for bat speed... or a loss therein.  Palmeiro still turns on an inside pitch rather well, so I haven't seen (from my obviously warped viewpoint from this side of the television camera) a loss of bat speed.

So must be some good pitching on the other side getting him out more consistently.  Such is the nature of baseball, adjustments countered by adjustments.  Pinch hitting is still the hardest thing to do in the majors, so again, Garner did nothing wrong in his thinking of choosing Palmeiro.  That Palmeiro didn't come through is not an indictment on Garner and not on Orlando either.

The pitcher, Rick White, did well to get both Everett and Palmeiro out.  Prior to the Palmeiro and White confrontation, the battery had a meeting on the mound.  White seemed to do all the talking, so he knew what it was he wanted to do against Palmeiro.  He did it well, so tip your cap.

[CJM]

Less than 100 AB (most of those in the pinch) isn't much when you're talking about batting average.  Just a little less than 2 more hits per month and he would have a .300+ BA.  The fact that his K's per AB (and his # of pitches per PA) are still in line with what it looks like he has done in the past seem to show he's still giving the club good ABs and putting the bat on the ball.

[Zan]

Quote:
4. Non-veteran bench players find it hard to do what is considered the hardest job in baseball because they're not used to the proper approach to pinch hitting.

Well stated. Though I would add that, if memory serves, Luke Scott had one of the most valuable pinch hit appearances in Astros history last season.