Why they lose

[pravata]

This is not about Burke, nor is it only about last night's game, although all the examples I'm using are from from last night's game and they're all about Burke.

In the first, runner on 2nd, no outs, Burke can not put the ball in play to the right side.  In the 7th, runner 2nd, no outs, same thing, grounder to the left side, not the right side.  Runner does not advance.  (Of course Berkman did the same thing in the course of going diddly for 4, but, this is not primarily about last night's game.)

In the 6th, the score is 3-2, Bay singles to left and Sanchez advances to 3rd from 1st.  Burke has the play in front of him so he tries for the putout at 3rd.  Doesn't get it and Bay moves to 2nd on the throw.  Didn't affect the scoring but it wasn't a good baseball play in a tight game.

Little things, since they don't score in bunches, are killing this team.  Either they're not smart enough or experienced enough or they're trying to hard to make something happen.  On a brighter note, Luke Scott seems to have learned his lesson and had two hustle hits last night.

[Gizzmonic]

Was Luke Scott benched a couple of games for not hustling?  I must be slow on the uptake because I missed that one.

Anyway, I like Burke in the 2 hole.  He slipped up in advancing the runner, but I think they should sit Biggio a couple games to give him some rest.  

Regardless, I feel like they should have jumped all over that Maholm clown.  They had him on the ropes a couple of times and let him elude them, that's what's really frustrating.

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This is not about Burke, nor is it only about last night's game, although all the examples I'm using are from from last night's game and they're all about Burke.

In the first, runner on 2nd, no outs, Burke can not put the ball in play to the right side.  In the 7th, runner 2nd, no outs, same thing, grounder to the left side, not the right side.  Runner does not advance.  (Of course Berkman did the same thing in the course of going diddly for 4, but, this is not primarily about last night's game.)

In the 6th, the score is 3-2, Bay singles to left and Sanchez advances to 3rd from 1st.  Burke has the play in front of him so he tries for the putout at 3rd.  Doesn't get it and Bay moves to 2nd on the throw.  Didn't affect the scoring but it wasn't a good baseball play in a tight game.

Little things, since they don't score in bunches, are killing this team.  Either they're not smart enough or experienced enough or they're trying to hard to make something happen.  On a brighter note, Luke Scott seems to have learned his lesson and had two hustle hits last night.

[Limey]

They lose because Garner is TehCrap.

[pravata]

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Was Luke Scott benched a couple of games for not hustling?  I must be slow on the uptake because I missed that one.

He wasn't benched.


Brewers game 8/17, from the Recap
With one out, Luke Scott swung at a wild pitch strike 3. He trotted down the 1b line and was thrown out by a step. As he came into the dugout Garner pulled him aside and explained to him that he has to run hard on every play. As Garner turns away, Scott passes behind him and is eyeballing Garner. If ever I stop watching the Astros it wont be because of losing. It will be because of this kind of crap. ?My Name is Earl? was on the other channel. I could have watched that.

So when Huff homers, the extra run was steaming on the bench.
The Link

Alyson Footer's version
he struck out in the fourth. Catcher Damian Miller dropped the ball, but Scott didn't run at full speed to first until he was more than halfway down the line. Miller's throw beat Scott to first only by a hair.
Assuming Miller had blocked the ball, Scott didn't realize that it had skidded past the catcher. Scott's lackluster effort stung a little more when Huff homered three pitches later.
When Scott retreated to the dugout, Garner had words with him that, in a nutshell, suggested he run as if his pants were on fire, at all times.
The Link

[Limey]

The enormous, Bagwell-sized hole in the dugout just got a little bit bigger.

[mihoba]

That throw to third, a mistake in itself, was pathetic.

To his credit, he did wind up advancing the runner in the 1st. That was quite a shot he hit just left of center.

Wandy gets flustered easily. First sign of adversity, he's done.

edit: oops, Burke's shot was in the 3rd.

[Lefty]

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Wandy gets flustered easily. First sign of adversity, he's done.

Which is odd, considering his performance early this season & in relief of Clemens in the WS last year, when he was working out of jams regularly.

[mihoba]

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Wandy gets flustered easily. First sign of adversity, he's done.

Which is odd, considering his performance early this season & in relief of Clemens in the WS last year, when he was working out of jams regularly.

One of the new announcers mentioned that Wandy has the reputation around the league as a winer of balls and strikes. Dunno if it's true, but he sure seems to crater quickly this season.

[Gizzmonic]

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One of the new announcers mentioned that Wandy has the reputation around the league as a winer of balls and strikes.  

Winner or whiner?  Or winery?  A gentleman's wine distilled from fresh, sun-baked balls and strikes?  From the Wine Cellars of Ernesto and Mike Gallo?

[Lefty]

I'm guessing whiner.  Definitely noticed his petulant streak - staring at the ump, eye roll to the heavens, snapping at the ball on the return throw from the catcher, mouthing crap to himself while taking the slow stroll around the mound - this season.

[mihoba]

wine-er, why-ner, whiner thats it.

From all appearances, that may be true. He sure makes disgusting facial expressions when things go wrong (Taveras non-catch last night)

[Bench]

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He sure makes disgusting facial expressions when things go wrong (Taveras non-catch last night)

That's just the herpes.

[HPFRic]

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Little things, since they don't score in bunches, are killing this team.

yeah, that... and the lack of talent.

[drew corleone]

It's basically the same "talent" that got them to the World Series last year.

[pravata]

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It's basically the same "talent" that got them to the World Series last year.

Some people were either born very recently or have very short term memories.

[Froback]

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Little things, since they don't score in bunches, are killing this team.

yeah, that... and the lack of talent.

I think he has more talent than Robertson who was used to acquire Taveras and Scott.  The difference is, we were able to win 18 games for Robertson and disguise his lack of talent.  I am looking for Wandy to get traded this offseason.

You could almost say I am hoping for it.  I think he has loads of talent, but doesn't have the emotional control to harness it properly.

[Bench]

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It's basically the same "talent" that got them to the World Series last year.

Yeah. The NL must really really suck for such a no talent team to make it to the World Series. Lidge realized that there's no stuff to trust because the league is so mediocre and convinced everyone else, the corroder. No wonder they're not even trying hard or don't want to win. Chokers.

[HPFRic]

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It's basically the same "talent" that got them to the World Series last year.

yes, the same talent that went 15-30 before going on arguably the most incredibly freakish run in baseball history; one that, given a 100 seasons, i doubt they'd ever be able to duplicate.

2005 was a miracle; a glorious, life-affirming miracle, yes ? but a miracle nonetheless.

[ybbodeus]

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It's basically the same "talent" that got them to the World Series last year.

yes, the same talent that went 15-30 before going on arguably the most incredibly freakish run in baseball history; one that, given a 100 seasons, i doubt they'd ever be able to duplicate.

2005 was a miracle; a glorious, life-affirming miracle, yes ? but a miracle nonetheless.

If the 2005 season was a miracle, then the last month of 2004 was Miracle-Light.

Not even CLOSE to a miracle.  Miracles involves outside intervention.  Outside intervention doesn't generally hang around for three or four months, unless a mother-in-law is involved.....I should know.  The closest I've seen to miracle was the crippled Gibson's homer against Eck and Oakland.  I'm sure there are others, but I can't recall them at the moment.

Some will say Bucky Dent, but that was no miracle.  Like Joaquin said, it's a softball park; Boston DESERVED that.  

Some say Bobby Thompson's Shot Heard 'round the World?  Screw those myopic "It's all about us" New Yorkers.  Like that homer got a minute of airpley in Upper Volta or Dahomey....or Warsaw or Helsinki.

Some say Buckner's ball through the legs against the stems in '86....he was nearly as crippled as Gibons; shouldn't have been out there.  Shame on Boston!!!!  Love saying that.

Al Michaels would probably argue with me....that hockey thing.

[HPFRic]

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If the 2005 season was a miracle, then the last month of 2004 was Miracle-Light.

the 2004 team was infinitely more talented than the 2005 team. had pettitte been healthy, they would have won the pennant that year.

last year was a borderline fluke; a bunch of different career years, weird happenstances and historic performances all coming together at the right time. but it took ALL that and they still only made the playoffs on the final day of the season.

[pravata]

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If the 2005 season was a miracle, then the last month of 2004 was Miracle-Light.

the 2004 team was infinitely more talented than the 2005 team. had pettitte been healthy, they would have won the pennant that year.

last year was a borderline fluke; a bunch of different career years, weird happenstances and historic performances all coming together at the right time. but it took ALL that and they still only made the playoffs on the final day of the season.

How do you think this works? In the last 5 years, name a team besides the Yankees that have been to 2 World Series.

[homer]

 

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still only made the playoffs on the final day of the season.

how many days before the end of the season do you have to clinch to have talent? a week? a month?

if the astros woulda won 100 games, and the next place team 99, clinching the wild card on the last day, would they have still been without talent?

[HPFRic]

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How do you think this works? In the last 5 years, name a team besides the Yankees that have been to 2 World Series.

which do you think is more often the foundation of success: talent or a lifetime's worth of good luck and incredibly rare happenstance?

and are you content going into next year with this same team? convinced they can win if they do the "little" things?

[HPFRic]

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how many days before the end of the season do you have to clinch to have talent? a week? a month?

did i at any point say that any team winning a playoff spot on the final day of the season lacked talent? no. i did not.

[pravata]

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How do you think this works? In the last 5 years, name a team besides the Yankees that have been to 2 World Series.

which do you think is more often the foundation of success: talent or a lifetime's worth of good luck and incredibly rare happenstance?

and are you content going into next year with this same team? convinced they can win if they do the "little" things?

Astros 1999 vs Astros 2005.

[homer]

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how many days before the end of the season do you have to clinch to have talent? a week? a month?

did i at any point say that any team winning a playoff spot on the final day of the season lacked talent? no. i did not.

do you know what talent means? which players on the 2005 or 2006 astros teams lack talent?

[HPFRic]

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Astros 1999 vs Astros 2005.

i'm sorry; and this confirms the 2006 astros are a talented team just getting beat by the "little" things how?

and i did ask you a question - are you content with this current roster going into next year, assuming the only upgrade is that they start doing the "little" things?

[pravata]

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Astros 1999 vs Astros 2005.

i'm sorry; and this confirms the 2006 astros are a talented team just getting beat by the "little" things how?

and i did ask you a question - are you content with this current roster going into next year, assuming the only upgrade is that they start doing the "little" things?

I believe you should be more concerned with the question that was asked of you. Which player on the 05 Astros do you think lacks "talent"? How does whether I'm "content" affect anything?

[pravata]

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Astros 1999 vs Astros 2005.

i'm sorry; and this confirms the 2006 astros are a talented team just getting beat by the "little" things how?

and i did ask you a question - are you content with this current roster going into next year, assuming the only upgrade is that they start doing the "little" things?

I believe you should be more concerned with the question that was asked of you. Which player on the 05 Astros do you think lacks "talent"? How does whether I'm "content" affect anything?

Also, how is an outfielder not knowing which base to throw to a "little thing"?

[drew corleone]

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last year was a borderline fluke; a bunch of different career years, weird happenstances and historic performances all coming together at the right time. but it took ALL that and they still only made the playoffs on the final day of the season.

Where is the border between fluke and non-fluke?

From Mid-May on the Astros were as good as any team in baseball. I guess you forgot that their best player missed the first six weeks of the season (look back at the number of one- or two-run losses and tell me that the presence of Lance Berkman doesn't significantly improve that 15-30 start).

Oswalt-Clemens-Pettitte was as good a 1-2-3 punch as there has been in recent baseball history.

Who else besides Moberg had a career year? Lane, maybe? So because those two guys did the whole season was a fluke?

[HPFRic]

that's fine; i'll play...

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Which player on the 05 Astros do you think lacks "talent"?

the team, collectively, lacked talent. per arky vaughn:

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The fact that the Astros made the World Series last year with the offense they had was extremely unusual -- indeed, it was the first time in more than 30 years that a team ranked so low in runs scored had won the National League pennant.

how many times would you want to go into battle with that team? it took a collective trio of pitching performances nearly unrivaled in the history of baseball just to squeak into the playoffs.

but sure, let?s just assume that because they did squeak into the playoffs, that they?re above reproach.

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Also, how is an outfielder not knowing which base to throw to a "little thing"?

because...

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...Bay moves to 2nd on the throw. Didn't affect the scoring but...

it?s a sound, accurate baseball point. but now let me ask you a question - why do the astros have to be so mindful of the "little" things? don't they have enough ?talent? to overcome them? or has their talent significantly compromised their margin for error?

and then i'd like you to please answer my question: are you content with the 2006 astros upgrading only their propensity for successfully doing the "little" things?

[pravata]

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that's fine; i'll play...

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Which player on the 05 Astros do you think lacks "talent"?

the team, collectively, lacked talent. per arky vaughn:

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The fact that the Astros made the World Series last year with the offense they had was extremely unusual -- indeed, it was the first time in more than 30 years that a team ranked so low in runs scored had won the National League pennant.

how many times would you want to go into battle with that team? it took a collective trio of pitching performances nearly unrivaled in the history of baseball just to squeak into the playoffs.

but sure, let?s just assume that because they did squeak into the playoffs, that they?re above reproach.

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Also, how is an outfielder not knowing which base to throw to a "little thing"?

because...

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...Bay moves to 2nd on the throw. Didn't affect the scoring but...

it?s a sound, accurate baseball point. but now let me ask you a question - why do the astros have to be so mindful of the "little" things? don't they have enough ?talent? to overcome them? or has their talent significantly compromised their margin for error?

and then i'd like you to please answer my question: are you content with the 2006 astros upgrading only their propensity for successfully doing the "little" things?

Citing Arky to me?  You are new here.  Where you accented "didn't affect the scoring", you read that, so you must have also read where I wrote that these examples were from this game, but they were meant to highlight problems they've had all season.   Again, me being "content" has diddly shit to do with the Astros.  I don't play that game.  My ability to judge talent means zero.  I observe the games, I comment on the way they are played, I compare the way the players play to other players.  I don't pretend to make evaluations.  I leave that to the geniuses and those who just wish someone would consider them a genius.

[No? in Austin]

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From Mid-May on the Astros were as good as any team in baseball.

Ironically, the month of April and some of May for this season, the Astros were better or equal to the New York Mets as one of the better teams in the NL.  19-9 was the high water mark and then *BOOM*, things went south.

Fluke April/Mid-May?  Probably a very convinient argument.  Playing great baseball is combination of talent, luck and health.  Any one of the three working against the other two or even two working against the one, you'll get your season go south for sure.

Berkman's hammy, MoBerg's shoulder, Backe's elbow, Pettitte's elbow, some bad luck here and there and then Lane inexplicably slumping so hard he can't recover and Wilson's homerun spigot turning off and that was the end of the season.  Lack of talent?  Bullshit argument because it's a singular aspect to playing good to great baseball.  Lack of the three things breaking right for the team?  Very much so.

Do the Braves lack talent?  Do the Cardinals also lack talent?  They were in the playoffs last year as well and will probably be out this year along with the Astros.  In all three, an argument could probably be made for health, luck and some of the talent being not what you'd expect for a winning team.

But talent alone?  Whenever someone says something like that, run away... far, far, far away from them.  They're talking sports bar talk after about 10 beers or more.  As you're running away, mutter to yourself "Remember 2001, Remember 2001, Remember 2001" to wash away the drunken bar talk and keep it from penentrating your cranium.

[HPFRic]

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You are new here.

ehhhh... not really.

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I observe the games, I comment on the way they are played, I compare the way the players play to other players. I don't pretend to make evaluations.

then why is it so important that this team perform the "little" things consistently? or is the absence of doing such the reason that every baseball team fails?

[pravata]

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You are new here.

ehhhh... not really.

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I observe the games, I comment on the way they are played, I compare the way the players play to other players. I don't pretend to make evaluations.

then why is it so important that this team perform the "little" things consistently? or is the absence of doing such the reason that every baseball team fails?

Clearly, the 2005 and 2006 Astros were designed to take advantage of pitching, defense, other teams mistakes and scoring just enough runs.  You're not attempting to say that every team is the same are you?

[homer]

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the team, collectively, lacked talent. per arky vaughn:

 

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The fact that the Astros made the World Series last year with the offense they had was extremely unusual -- indeed, it was the first time in more than 30 years that a team ranked so low in runs scored had won the National League pennant.

 

scoring runs is a protrayal of talent? or having scored the most runs in the leauge makes a team have the most talent?

what about when oswalt strikes out pujols? pujols leave his talent at home? oswalt drink a talent booster on the way to the game?

[ybbodeus]

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If the 2005 season was a miracle, then the last month of 2004 was Miracle-Light.

the 2004 team was infinitely more talented than the 2005 team. had pettitte been healthy, they would have won the pennant that year.

last year was a borderline fluke; a bunch of different career years, weird happenstances and historic performances all coming together at the right time. but it took ALL that and they still only made the playoffs on the final day of the season.

The only difference between the two teams talent wise that I can recall was the '04 bunch having HE WHOSE NAME MUST NOT BE MENTIONED, the Latin Willie Mays, from late July or so forward until Boras played Simon Says with us.

When a team isn't doing "the little things", could that be part of that whole underachieving label that's so readily thrown about these days?

[ybbodeus]

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If the 2005 season was a miracle, then the last month of 2004 was Miracle-Light.

the 2004 team was infinitely more talented than the 2005 team. had pettitte been healthy, they would have won the pennant that year.

last year was a borderline fluke; a bunch of different career years, weird happenstances and historic performances all coming together at the right time. but it took ALL that and they still only made the playoffs on the final day of the season.

The only difference between the two teams talent wise that I can recall was the '04 bunch having HE WHOSE NAME MUST NOT BE MENTIONED, the Latin Willie Mays, from late July or so forward until Boras played Simon Says with us.

When a team isn't doing "the little things", could that be part of that whole underachieving label that's so readily thrown about these days?

Guess it was late June, huh?

[Jose Cruz III]

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If the 2005 season was a miracle, then the last month of 2004 was Miracle-Light.

the 2004 team was infinitely more talented than the 2005 team. had pettitte been healthy, they would have won the pennant that year.

last year was a borderline fluke; a bunch of different career years, weird happenstances and historic performances all coming together at the right time. but it took ALL that and they still only made the playoffs on the final day of the season.

The only difference between the two teams talent wise that I can recall was the '04 bunch having HE WHOSE NAME MUST NOT BE MENTIONED, the Latin Willie Mays, from late July or so forward until Boras played Simon Says with us.

 

And he, Mr. Latino Willie, drove in a grand total of 2 runs during the stretch that got the Stros into the playoffs. If Latino Willie had not come around in October he would not be making the money he is right now. Also, if he hadn't hired Boras he wouldn't be going to spend eternity in a lake of fire.

[Jose Cruz III]

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Astros 1999 vs Astros 2005.

The 99 Stros had Jose Lima and Chris Holt. Clemens and Pettitte have alot to live up to right there.

[ybbodeus]

You're on a roll, JC....2 LOL's in a row.