Could the Astros get better by being sellers?

[Froback]

I am just looking at the club right now and wondering which way I would go: buying or selling.

I tend to be against buying simply because the team has not shown much recently to indicate they will get out of the funk they are in (but then they didn't last year until about this time either).

IF they were going to trade, who is marketable?  
Lidge's name has been thrown about, but I agree with those that say, selling now is getting less in value than it should.  So I would say keep him and hope he turns things around.  
Preston Wilson is potentially a trade candidate, specifically to Det, Chi or NY.  But then the Astros issue is scoring more so than pitching.  But it IS an option (you can always call up Pence or start Burke/Taveras/Scott).
Everett will only be included in a trade that returns a SS IMO, so while he might be available, it restricts in what trade.
I am going to propose a player who has a no-trade so that is going to cause issues, and he is local and well liked by certain club-house people, but what about Pettitte.  You think the Yankees wouldn't like him back?  Would he go?  Probably the only team he would consider would be NY.  And if the Astros could pull this off then they could consider more young pitchers who seem to be ready (Albers/Hirsh/Sampson).  And you might actually get something of value for Pettitte that might help the team.

I have to admit I am really at a loss of what really to do.  I am almost to the point of looking towards 07 instead of 06, not that I won't continue to root for success this year.

When I look at the future of this team, I begin to look at people like Burke, Pence, Hirsh, Albers, among others.  But none seem to address this year's issues.  Most will replace people who are somewhat productive, Burke-Biggio (eventually); Pence-Wilson; Hirsh/Albers-Pettitte/Clemens.

So the team still needs to address difficult choices like SS/C.  I agree with most that this is a major defensive position and defense here counts more than offense, but the Astros are getting to a point where the defense isn't enough to overshadow how bad the offense it there.  But then, better options are really hard to find as most teams discover.

As a highly opinionated fan, I found myself in an odd spot, I have no idea what i want them to do.  But it is looking more and more like being a seller might be a better route than being a buyer this year.

[Alkie]

I'll be happy to go on record as saying I wish we'd sell (big time), boost the level of prospects, and hit the FA market hard this offseason.

Could we come back and win this year? Sure, we've done it two years in a row.  Is it likely?  Not so much.  

Hey look, I've got partial season tix, and I'll still go to the games I have tickets to.  I honestly think the Astros will be much, MUCH better long term (and even short term, just not 2006-short-term), by taking advantage of having a lot of players that other teams would trade for in this crappy deadline market.  

And think about this: even with callups or less-than-superstars, it's not exactly like we'd lose much (since the only player we definitely wouldn't be trading is Berkman).

[pravata]

Ridiculously better.  So much better that it wouldn't be out of the realm of the possible that Selig would have to rescind some of the trades for the good of the League.

[juliogotay]

I agree with you. I think we have enough quality arms in the system...we need offense and we need to get more athletic on the field....more speed, better fielders.

Do we even want to re-sign Huff? He has done a great job of adjusting to be an Astro-type hitter since that first game. I believe he is much better than we've seen and will hopefully get hot again.

[Alkie]

Well, I just want to be clear about this.  This isn't a "throw up my hands and give up" kind of thing at all.  I'd actually be pretty excited to go watch the kids play the rest of the season, and let's be honest, most of our "stars" are at the ass end of their careers.  Let's take advantage of the situation, sell off to the highest bidders, and know that we'll continue to be badass contenders for the next 10 years.

I don't think there's any shame in this.  This isn't "giving up," this is "good business."

[Rebel Jew]

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I'll be happy to go on record as saying I wish we'd sell (big time), boost the level of prospects, and hit the FA market hard this offseason.

Could we come back and win this year? Sure, we've done it two years in a row.  Is it likely?  Not so much.  
 

But man, it's not like it'll take that much.  6 games out of the wildcard, and behind the very average Dbacks, Giants, and Reds.  Even with Pettitte's erratic performance this year, the front line of Oswalt, Clemens, and Pettitte is much better than what any other WC contenders can throw out.  Find a consistent performer at the 5th starter spot, add a solidly producing bat that can help you score 4 1/2 a night, and keep Lidge away from the 9th inning.  The pieces are there for a run at a mediocre wild card.

[Alkie]

I can't disagree with that at all.

What I'm saying is: once the dust has settled, let's say we win this Wild Card...or DON'T.  What then?  Does this team have what it takes to really win the whole thing this year?  (Maybe?)

More importantly, what kind of a shell of a team does it leave us next year?  Are we looking at 1991 again soon?  

And more importantly, if it's just "so easy" to win this year's wild card, why hasn't this team, with its backs against the wall (they say) for over a month now been incapable of winning a series?  What makes you think it'll turn around?  Because they made an improbable run the last two years?  

That's fine, and I hope if we stand pat or buy that we win the whole thing.  But look past this year.  We have an extraordinary opportunity to sell the big pieces that haven't seem to come together for us so far this year, not really hurt this year's team all that bad, and be significantly better for the near future.

I mean, honestly, how much worse would this lineup be without Huff, Wilson, Taveras, Lamb, Ensberg, and Everett?  And hell, Everett is the only one of that bunch that would be near impossible to replace defensively (although, I understand Izturis can be had for not-that-much).  

I stand behind this.  I say "sell" for the good of this year AND beyond.

[Gizzmonic]

A-Rod for Clemens, Pettitte, and Wilson?

But seriously, I would like to see how guys like Pence and Hirsch respond at the MLB level.  I'm getting sick of watching this team beat their head against the wall.

Usually when I get this feeling, the team rips off a huge winning streak and gets itself back into contention.  But it's getting later and later in the season and I just don't see them coming back.

Quote:
I can't disagree with that at all.

What I'm saying is: once the dust has settled, let's say we win this Wild Card...or DON'T.  What then?  Does this team have what it takes to really win the whole thing this year?  (Maybe?)

More importantly, what kind of a shell of a team does it leave us next year?  Are we looking at 1991 again soon?  

And more importantly, if it's just "so easy" to win this year's wild card, why hasn't this team, with its backs against the wall (they say) for over a month now been incapable of winning a series?  What makes you think it'll turn around?  Because they made an improbable run the last two years?  

That's fine, and I hope if we stand pat or buy that we win the whole thing.  But look past this year.  We have an extraordinary opportunity to sell the big pieces that haven't seem to come together for us so far this year, not really hurt this year's team all that bad, and be significantly better for the near future.

I mean, honestly, how much worse would this lineup be without Huff, Wilson, Taveras, Lamb, Ensberg, and Everett?  And hell, Everett is the only one of that bunch that would be near impossible to replace defensively (although, I understand Izturis can be had for not-that-much).  

I stand behind this.  I say "sell" for the good of this year AND beyond.

[Froback]

Quote:
I mean, honestly, how much worse would this lineup be without Huff, Wilson, Taveras, Lamb, Ensberg, and Everett?  And hell, Everett is the only one of that bunch that would be near impossible to replace defensively (although, I understand Izturis can be had for not-that-much).  

I stand behind this.  I say "sell" for the good of this year AND beyond.

I would not have an issue with trading most of those people away.  I would prefer to keep Huff and Ensberg though.  Mostly for the fact that I think we could resign Huff fairly easily and by keeping him we let him know he is wanted here.  And Ensberg I think his value is really low given all his has been through this year.  I do know San Diego is really hot for him though.  I might consider moving all of them, the more I think about it.

Unfortunately there are 4 guys we cannot move due to no-trade clauses.  Clemens, after all he has said I cannot see him agree to be traded, but then his Ego my like the Northeast stroking.  Pettitte, I cannot get his pre-season comments about this might be his last year, and things are too perfect for him being home and playing with his best friend (Clemens).  Biggio, the PR backlash would be HUGE, not to mention I am not sure he would ever want to leave Houston willingly.  Ausmus, We all know his value here, but how much do other clubs value him, and his bat is a major negative to his worth, not to mention he would only accept a deal to a west coast team would really restrict the options and thus his value in trade.

Berkman and Oswalt will not be traded as they are they heart of the team.  But as I stated previously, I am warming more and more to the thought of being sellers instead of buyers.  And I think the team will be better for it (depending on who they get).

[astro pete]

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Berkman and Oswalt will not be traded as they are they heart of the team.  But as I stated previously, I am warming more and more to the thought of being sellers instead of buyers.  And I think the team will be better for it (depending on who they get).

I think it's pretty clear that at this point the front office has absolutely no intention of being "sellers".

[Arky Vaughan]

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Berkman and Oswalt will not be traded as they are they heart of the team.  But as I stated previously, I am warming more and more to the thought of being sellers instead of buyers.  And I think the team will be better for it (depending on who they get).

I think it's pretty clear that at this point the front office has absolutely no intention of being "sellers".

Good thing too. As badly as they've played lately, they've still within distance of the wild card. Glad the nervous nellies in here aren't in charge of the team.

[Russ99]

I'm glad the Astros aren't selling (yet - there's always the August 31st waiver deadline.) but if they did, it might be the best time to trade Oswalt, especially if he doesn't want to pitch in Houston long term - as his "test the market" comments on his upcoming free agency next season.

The Astros could get some excellent top prospects or young MLB players, and the team acquiring Roy would have him under conract for one and a half years, minimum.

I'm not advocating an Oswalt trade, but if the team changed their mind about being sellers, they could get the largest return for him now.

[StargateSG1]

Good points. I'd rather the Astros proceed with a re-tool mantra as opposed to a seller's theme. The Astros have a MVP type player in Berkman and a CY-Young caliber pitcher in Oswalt.  Both create a great foundation to build on.  Build on this foundation with assets capable of weathering a pennant race in the short term and long term.

I don't like the seller's tag (even on a limited basis) as that typically is associated with teams trading veteran players for younger players with little or no experience.

IMO Any deal that the Astros make prior to the deadline should propel the Astros this season (they are still in the race) and in 2007.

Astros can assess any additional organizatioal needs in the offseason and use free agency to upgrade as needed.

Hopefully the Astros aren't considering trading Clemens, Pettitte, etc. under any circumstance.

[Alkie]

Quote:
Hopefully the Astros aren't considering trading Clemens, Pettitte, etc. under any circumstance.

...because those players you mentioned have no-trade clauses?

[juliogotay]

But at this time last year the team was tied for the lead in the WC, not 7 games out with several teams in front. They were also playing very good. It was a completely different situation. It could still happen this year but it will take a .700 or so winning% the rest of the way. Pretty steep for a team that hasn't won a single series since the first week in July.

[StargateSG1]

Hopefully Rocket will not approach the Astros at any time and asked to be moved. I'd rather see both Andy and Roger finish the year even if the Astros continue their current level of play and finish well below .500.  
 
Red Sox media seems to be hoping for a Rocket landing in Boston.

 link - this guy Lenny Megliola is a real piece of work.
 link

[JimR]

oh, please.