Ensberg Blows

[Limey]

I'm stuck in an airport lounge, on a Saturday, and I'm watching the game.  Ensberg takes a bases loaded, 0 out situation in a tied game, and pops up the first pitch he sees.

Goddamnmotherfuckershitfuckchrist!

Edit:  Maybe we should call him Type o' Dong, because he's about as dangerous as a North Korean missile of the same name.

[Limey]

Take the above post, and reverse it (adding one out for you-know-who).

[Golden Sombrero]

Slumpsberg is hard to watch right now.  I was hoping yesterday could have ignited him (the homer, but his single probably should have been an error), but today he's 0-4 with 3 Ks and the pitiful bases loaded, no outs AB.  Thank goodness for Fat Elvis this season, who not only drives in runs but is a joy to watch (especially the classic bubble-catch).

[Limey]

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Slumpsberg is hard to watch right now.  I was hoping yesterday could have ignited him (the homer, but his single probably should have been an error), but today he's 0-4 with 3 Ks and the pitiful bases loaded, no outs AB.  Thank goodness for Fat Elvis this season, who not only drives in runs but is a joy to watch (especially the classic bubble-catch).

Berkman plays like a kid.  Ensberg plays with the weight of the world on his shoulders.

[Limey]

Wheels break motherfuckin' Pooholes bat!  Nice!

Now let's finish this thing!

[Golden Sombrero]

A familiar Lidge story this season--2 quick outs, then he struggles.  Let's record this last out, Brad.

[Golden Sombrero]

The save.  Let's get out of this inning with the tie, hopefully.

[matadorph]

again? motherfucker.

[Savage]

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A familiar Lidge story this season--2 quick outs, then he struggles.  Let's record this last out, Brad.

Fuck.

[Golden Sombrero]

Grounder to Glovezilla to end the inning.  Bottom 9, tied 6-6.  Here's hoping for a walk-off win.  Garner had the Stros' new closer warming up in the pen--one Roy Oswalt.

[Zan]

I'm glad they didn't play the Light's Out/Bring the Pain Song.

[Golden Sombrero]

Lidge did bring the pain, though.  As did Jason Lane with the worst swing at a ball out of the zone I've seen in a long time.

[loganck]

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I'm glad they didn't play the Light's Out/Bring the Pain Song.

when did that stop?

[Golden Sombrero]

Roy-O comes in, brushes back Pujols, who on the next pitch deposits the ball into right field.  Ouch.

[MRaup]

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Roy-O comes in, brushes back Pujols, who on the next pitch deposits the ball into right field.  Ouch.

I can handle losing to Pujols.

What I can't handle is blowing the save to Crimson Stripe Faggot, Drinkin' Dave Junior, and an assortment of people that generally suck.

FUCK YOU, Brad Lidge. You give shitty relief pitchers a bad name with that choke job you pulled with 2 outs and a bunch of nobodies due up.

[Zan]

I don't know if it stopped, just know the announcers said they didn't play it today.

[ASTROCREEP]

Spezio, Duncan, Miles, Eck he can get ONE of them out. Pathetic.

[matadorph]

Brad Lidge is a lost cause.

[Rebel Jew]

 THIS IS THE GUY WHO BEAT THE ASTROS TODAY , yes I'm talking about  THIS GUY.

[Dobro]

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Brad Lidge is a lost cause.

Ya think?

[Golden Sombrero]

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THIS IS THE GUY WHO BEAT THE ASTROS TODAY , yes I'm talking about  THIS GUY.

He did have some strong help from this guy though:

The Link

[matadorph]

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Brad Lidge is a lost cause.

Ya think?

But it's blasphemy around these parts to admit what other fans have been saying for a long time now. He's a choking headcase. Period.

[Frobie]

All I know is that his Strat-O-Matic card is going to suck next year.

Fuckity fuck fuck fuck.

[Dobro]

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Brad Lidge is a lost cause.

Ya think?

But it's blasphemy around these parts to admit what other fans have been saying for a long time now. He's a choking headcase. Period.

I'm just wondering if Jim still stands by his "Lidge is easily correctable" position.

The Link

[Frobie]

Well, I for one don't know what's up with Lidge.

Head?  Mechanics?  Just going through a rough/unlucky period?  Tipping pitches?  Not trusting his stuff?  (God, how I hate that phrase.)  

I've watched the Lidge threads here with interest, though I don't recall ever posting in one of them before.  So here goes...

Looking at it pragmatically, in 21st-century baseball the closer is the team's best pitcher out of the pen.  I am not big on the whole "closers are born, not made" thing.  It seems as though Lidge is not the Astros best relief pitcher at the moment.  And we're not talking about a game, a week, or a month.  It's the All-Star Break, fer cryin' out loud.

I'm not anti-Lidge.  But at what point do you try to shuffle things up?  Garner (who I admit probably knows better how to manage the Astros than I do) has no problem with benching position players, shuffling the battling order, playing hunches, etc., when it comes to the guys in the field.  So I guess at times I find it hard to follow the super-rigid bullpen role thing.

Anyway, very tough loss today and I've tried my best not to be too negative.  The great thing about baseball is that there's always tomorrow.  (At least until the day that there isn't.)  ;-)

[Golden Sombrero]

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Well, I for one don't know what's up with Lidge.

Head?  Mechanics?  Just going through a rough/unlucky period?  Tipping pitches?  Not trusting his stuff?  (God, how I hate that phrase.)  

I've watched the Lidge threads here with interest, though I don't recall ever posting in one of them before.  So here goes...

Looking at it pragmatically, in 21st-century baseball the closer is the team's best pitcher out of the pen.  I am not big on the whole "closers are born, not made" thing.  It seems as though Lidge is not the Astros best relief pitcher at the moment.  And we're not talking about a game, a week, or a month.  It's the All-Star Break, fer cryin' out loud.

I'm not anti-Lidge.  But at what point do you try to shuffle things up?  Garner (who I admit probably knows better how to manage the Astros than I do) has no problem with benching position players, shuffling the battling order, playing hunches, etc., when it comes to the guys in the field.  So I guess at times I find it hard to follow the super-rigid bullpen role thing.

Anyway, very tough loss today and I've tried my best not to be too negative.  The great thing about baseball is that there's always tomorrow.  (At least until the day that there isn't.)  ;-)

I think today's game was the one that forces Garner to shuffle things around.  Both Qualls and Wheels have been looking pretty sharp lately--maybe he drops Lidge down to middle-relief and promotes Wheeler or Qualls to closer for a while?  He's got to try something--Lidge has had plenty of chances to recover form and might benefit from taking some pressure off for a while.  

I've said it before, but Wheels would have the perfect intro (Journey's Wheel in the Sky), and they could show a video with a variety of wheels spinning, ending with a semi-truck with Wheeler's head superimposed over the hubcaps.  It would then zoom out to show Dan driving the semi.

[BizidyDizidy]

I bet he still stands by his you're a fucktard position.

[drew corleone]

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I'm just wondering if Jim still stands by his "Lidge is easily correctable" position.

The Link

What the fuck is up with your hard-on for Jim. I've disliked/disagreed with people on msg boards plenty of times, but seriously...No one on this board blew a 2-run lead with two outs today.

[Zan]

Here's my take on the Lidge thing, which I share for feedback, not because I think anyone should listen to me.

Lidge will be fine. He will still be a very good closer. He's not a head case or a lost cause. He may even return to utter dominance. Every closer goes through this period. That being said, this is brutal for the Astros, because the Astros aren't built on the premise of Lidge being very good. The Astros are built on the premise of Lidge being utterly dominant. If Lidge were merely very good the last two seasons, the Astros don't make the playoffs. Making the playoffs required Lidge being elite.

This is why I think it's silly for people to blame Purpura for anything. He constructed the 2006 team with the reasonable assumptions about Pettitte, Ensberg, Lane, and Lidge that aren't being met. No GM can overcome a sizeable drop in value from four key players.

[JimR]

Lidge reverted yesterday to his flying open, arm behind his body style of slinging the ball toward the plate. whether he returns to dominance depends, in my opinion, on how honest he is with himself that he needs to correct his horrible mechanics. his stuff is still there, but no one will swing at up high and away FBs or sliders that bounce in front of the plate. he gave up a 2 run lead yesterday to AAA hitters and Eckstein.

my heresy du jour: if someone had to give up the winning HR to Pujols, i'm glad it was Oswalt. his ripping the hitters in the media after his last loss was classless and is a sign of a team coming apart. the Astros rarely do this, and Mr. O. may be getting a bit big for his britches. shut the fuck up and pitch, Roy.

i have never used the ignore feature of this board for the many fools who post here, but perhaps i should for Dobro. his real hard on is for Lidge, who he has been trashing all year. my guess is he lost money on Game 5 last year or on the Series. as for me, Dobro is just one more stalker who lives for trying to show me up. go ahead, Mr. Negativity. you're not very good at that either. and yes, i think Lidge can be corrected easily. any decent HS coach can see his mechanical flaws. that you cannot does not surprise me a bit. you are just one more frontrunner who is a "fan" only when things are going well and who is the first to post blistering criticism after a loss. you contribute nothing to the TZ.

ps: whoever called Lidge a "choker" on here can go fuck himself as far as i am concerned. folks who use that word as a synonym for losing no doubt topped out in LL, if they played at all.

[Dobro]

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and yes, i think Lidge can be corrected easily.

Why don't you send McLane and Purpura your resume?  And be sure to explain your position on Lidge in the cover letter.  I'm quite sure that Hickey's disposable.

No hard-on for you, Jim.  I would say it is quite the opposite, in fact.  You've been gnawing on my ankles for years now.  You just aren't nearly as smart as you think you are, as is clearly evident by some of the positions you take around here.

[Limey]

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Grounder to Glovezilla to end the inning.  Bottom 9, tied 6-6.  Here's hoping for a walk-off win.  Garner had the Stros' new closer warming up in the pen--one Roy Oswalt.

I got on a plane thinking the game had been won when Lidge got the 3rd out.  I must've missed the Spezio dinger, but I still can't work out how I didn't know the score.

I'm very confused right now.

[Golden Sombrero]

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Grounder to Glovezilla to end the inning.  Bottom 9, tied 6-6.  Here's hoping for a walk-off win.  Garner had the Stros' new closer warming up in the pen--one Roy Oswalt.

I got on a plane thinking the game had been won when Lidge got the 3rd out.  I must've missed the Spezio dinger, but I still can't work out how I didn't know the score.

I'm very confused right now.

It's quite simple, really--your mind couldn't handle the thought of Lidge falling apart again, and so you constructed an alternate reality in which he was once again the unstoppable force he was last season.  So, even as he proceeded to blow the save to a collection of nobodies in reality, you perceived him striking out the side with a should-be impossible 12-6 slider.

[AstroFrog]

 

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my heresy du jour: if someone had to give up the winning HR to Pujols, i'm glad it was Oswalt. his ripping the hitters in the media after his last loss was classless and is a sign of a team coming apart. the Astros rarely do this, and Mr. O. may be getting a bit big for his britches. shut the fuck up and pitch, Roy.

Maybe two complete game losses in a row and an (initial) All-Star snub from your own manager earn a guy one "WTF?!?" to the media.  

I agree with you that the team seems in danger of falling apart - Roy O speaking out, Berkman (!) actually speaking out, rumblings of Garner losing the clubhouse for not taking more Astros to the All-Star Game.  I just hope tonight's game, my first at MMPUS this season, is a rebound game and a positive note before the break, as opposed to a "sifting through the wreckage of a lost season game" following a inexcusable, horrendous loss.

[JimR]

actually i'm not too ashamed of my baseball resume, frontrunner. do you have one? i think if you inquire you will find that the Astros baseball folks and other baseball people believe that poor mechanics are the cause of Lidge's problems. they have been quietly fearful/predicting an arm injury for a couple of years because of poor mechanics. anyone who watches without a private agenda can see them. i'll bet you Hickey and Ausmus have told Lidge more than once to keep his front shoulder closed. an issue of poor mechanics, of course, does not agree with your "choker headcase" theory. how much did you lose?

enlighten the board and me on the stupid positions i take, frontrunner. i may not be as smart as i think i am, but i am way smarter than you. that is not a difficult thing to be.

now fuck off, Dobro, and let the adults talk baseball. you're useless.you are here only to bitch, moan and complain.

[pravata]

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my heresy du jour: if someone had to give up the winning HR to Pujols, i'm glad it was Oswalt. his ripping the hitters in the media after his last loss was classless and is a sign of a team coming apart. the Astros rarely do this, and Mr. O. may be getting a bit big for his britches. shut the fuck up and pitch, Roy.

Maybe two complete game losses in a row and an (initial) All-Star snub from your own manager earn a guy one "WTF?!?" to the media.  

I agree with you that the team seems in danger of falling apart - Roy O speaking out, Berkman (!) actually speaking out, rumblings of Garner losing the clubhouse for not taking more Astros to the All-Star Game.  I just hope tonight's game, my first at MMPUS this season, is a rebound game and a positive note before the break, as opposed to a "sifting through the wreckage of a lost season game" following a inexcusable, horrendous loss.

From what I've seen the issue of All Star picks is the creation of Jose de Jesus Ortiz, who has, so far, written 6 articles in the paper suggesting that Oswalt is put out by not being picked.  Today he started in on Biggio.

It is true that Mclane talked to Oswalt about accepting after Martinez was scratched.  There was an issue of family plans having to be rearranged.  To some this may not seem like a legitimate problem.

It would be something different if all this wasn't based on a well known muck rackers opinion.  Ortiz cobbles together some quotes from other stories to flesh out his idea that this is a major issue (6 articles worth).  Todays' topper is quotes from his buddies at Mollly's Pub who think Garner isnt loyal.

If a couple of the star players being publicly pissed off about losing will cause the team to "fall apart" it wasn't much of a team to begin with.

[Rebel Jew]

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my heresy du jour: if someone had to give up the winning HR to Pujols, i'm glad it was Oswalt. his ripping the hitters in the media after his last loss was classless and is a sign of a team coming apart. the Astros rarely do this, and Mr. O. may be getting a bit big for his britches. shut the fuck up and pitch, Roy.

Maybe two complete game losses in a row and an (initial) All-Star snub from your own manager earn a guy one "WTF?!?" to the media.  

I agree with you that the team seems in danger of falling apart - Roy O speaking out, Berkman (!) actually speaking out, rumblings of Garner losing the clubhouse for not taking more Astros to the All-Star Game.  I just hope tonight's game, my first at MMPUS this season, is a rebound game and a positive note before the break, as opposed to a "sifting through the wreckage of a lost season game" following a inexcusable, horrendous loss.

From what I've seen the issue of All Star picks is the creation of Jose de Jesus Ortiz, who has, so far, written 6 articles in the paper suggesting that Oswalt is put out by not being picked.  Today he started in on Biggio.

It is true that Mclane talked to Oswalt about accepting after Martinez was scratched.  There was an issue of family plans having to be rearranged.  To some this may not seem like a legitimate problem.

It would be something different if all this wasn't based on a well known muck rackers opinion.  Ortiz cobbles together some quotes from other stories to flesh out his idea that this is a major issue (6 articles worth).  Todays' topper is quotes from his buddies at Mollly's Pub who think Garner isnt loyal.

If a couple of the star players being publicly pissed off about losing will cause the team to "fall apart" it wasn't much of a team to begin with.

the thing i don't understand is how there always seems to be this inexplicably fervent urge among certain people to quantify inherently abstract concepts like "team chemistry" and "choking," and then to somehow apply that fallaciously quantified result to a tangible event.  these people just can't get the simple idea that a sports team usually loses games because it isn't playing well enough to win, or because specific players aren't playing well, or because other teams have more talented players or are playing better.  according to them, the astros aren't losing because they can't consistently score runs, it's because their "team chemistry" is lacking a few subatomic particles.  lidge didn't give up the lead because he threw bad pitches, it's because "he choked."

[JimR]

being pissed off about losing is one thing; going after your teammates in the media is quite another. everything he said was pefectly appropriate face to face or in a team meeting. not appropriate to the media.

[Zan]

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You just aren't nearly as smart as you think you are, as is clearly evident by some of the positions you take around here.

Huh? When it comes to baseball, there is no dispute that Jim knows what he's talking about.

[No? in Austin]

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being pissed off about losing is one thing; going after your teammates in the media is quite another. everything he said was pefectly approriate face to face or in a team meeting. not approriate to the media.

Eggszactly!  Oswalt's comments (IMHO) were enough for the team leaders to call him out on it.  I speculated some sort of conversation was either had or will be had soon enough if... *IF* Oswalt continues to take his case to the media again.

As for Lidge, his mechanices from the stretch are horrible!  Just absolutely horrible!  Once Duncan got on, Lidge could not keep his shoulder closed and had it not been for some close calls on a couple of outside pitches to Miles, he would've walked the young man instead of allowed him to hit a hanging slider.  Lidge was yanking his slider down that whole inning, so it wasn't hard for the hitters to lay off it when it bounces two feet in front of the plate.  The two times he decides to keep from yanking it, he hangs it to Duncan and Miles.

Those two guys are not the hitters who can beat you if you're a major league closer.  Lidge's mechanics from the stretch are messed up.

Conversely, Chad Qualls is becoming a very impressive reliever nowadays.  His slider and heavy sinker were nasty yesterday, as evidenced by his five pitch inning.  That's the type of performance Houston needs in the ninth just as much as they do in the seventh.

[Golden Sombrero]

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...Eggszactly!  Oswalt's comments (IMHO) were enough for the team leaders to call him out on it.  I speculated some sort of conversation was either had or will be had soon enough if... *IF* Oswalt continues to take his case to the media again....

It's sort of like after his umpteenth playoff loss, Peyton Manning called out his offensive line during his press conference by saying there were "protection problems."  It was manifestly true, but it's not the sort of thing you do to your teammates.  You always defend them to the media and fall on your sword.  Even though Roy-O had every reason in the worst to be mad at the team for not getting him any run support, he should have said something like "I could have pitched better--shouldn't have given up that run."  No one would believe he really meant it, but you have the protocol to follow when dealing with the parasitical media.

As it is, our second All-Star and the best pitcher on the team has suffered 3 straight losses and is 6-6.  I don't remember the last time he won (wasn't it right after coming off the DL?).

[matadorph]

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whether he returns to dominance depends, in my opinion, on how honest he is with himself that he needs to correct his horrible mechanics.

WTF?

If anyone else typed something as transparently "FOS" as this you'd blast them for being a fucktarded waste of board space.   How is such a completely unquantifiable statement about Brad Lidge's psychological state any different than someone saying "Lidge doesn't trust his stuff" or "Brad Lidge can't handle pressure situations?"

So anyone who calls Brad Lidge a "choker" is a clueless jackoff just because you had a eureeka moment watching the No Doy Channel and discovered that Lidge's pitching mechanics are all out of whack and stuff? I get it now-- Brad Lidge's clear pattern of suffering broken mechanics in two-out situations is never a symptom of, say, Choke Disease, it's a symptom of a guy not being honest with himself. If Brad Lidge would just listen to JimR and BE HONEST WITH HIMSELF then all his problems would be solved and he'd return to the dominating pitcher he was in the recent past! Prestoshazzam!
 

Oh okay. Whatever you say, coach.

[Zan]

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whether he returns to dominance depends, in my opinion, on how honest he is with himself that he needs to correct his horrible mechanics.

WTF?

If anyone else typed something as transparently "FOS" as this you'd blast them for being a fucktarded waste of board space.   How is such a completely unquantifiable statement about Brad Lidge's psychological state any different than someone saying "Lidge doesn't trust his stuff" or "Brad Lidge can't handle pressure situations?"

I don't think Jim's statement is nearly as nebulous as you're suggesting. Lidge has been saying his problem was tipping pitches, but it's clear he's opening up from the stretch. I think the concern is that Lidge recognize that mechanics, not tipping pitches, is the problem. Jim, please correct me if I'm misrepresenting anything.

I don't really know the problem or solution, but Jim's explanation sounds far more compelling to me than saying Lidge is a headcase who can't handle the pressure. The problem to me with that explanation is that I've seen him make sluggers bat like girls in scenarios too tense to watch without pacing and smoking. I just don't buy that Lidge can't handle pressure.

[Arky Vaughan]

More late-inning fun tonight.

I far rather enjoy listening to the Deportes guys with Miller and Morgan having technical difficulties.

[Golden Sombrero]

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More late-inning fun tonight.

I far rather enjoy listening to the Deportes guys with Miller and Morgan having technical difficulties.

It was a great call.  But unfortunately Wheels' action that engendered it throws a wrench into my plan for the "Wheel in the Sky" extravaganza.

[Arky Vaughan]

Wow. This is really starting to suck. Aaron Freaking Miles?

[Golden Sombrero]

The astros took losing to a whole new level tonight.  They got virtually every fundamental wrong.  Disgraceful on so many levels.  Lidge is done as the closer.  I think Qualls has earned the shot.  Hopefully Lidge can return to a contributing member of the team from middle relief.

Purp's mind must be racing now.  He's got to do something if the team is to have any sort of shot in the 2nd half.  But do we really have anyone of value to trade?

[Reuben]

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The astros took losing to a whole new level tonight.  They got virtually every fundamental wrong.  Disgraceful on so many levels.  Lidge is done as the closer.  I think Qualls has earned the shot.  Hopefully Lidge can return to a contributing member of the team from middle relief.

Purp's mind must be racing now.  He's got to do something if the team is to have any sort of shot in the 2nd half.  But do we really have anyone of value to trade?

You mean, besides the blue-chip prospects, that he probably shouldn't trade?

[matadorph]

I agree that Qualls should inherit the closer's role. What a shitty way to go into the All-Star break. Two devastating back-to-back losses that amounted to a four-game swing. Fuck.

It's time for the Chronicle to write the epitaph on the 2006 season.

[otterj]

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The astros took losing to a whole new level tonight.  They got virtually every fundamental wrong.  Disgraceful on so many levels.  Lidge is done as the closer.  I think Qualls has earned the shot.  Hopefully Lidge can return to a contributing member of the team from middle relief.

Purp's mind must be racing now.  He's got to do something if the team is to have any sort of shot in the 2nd half.  But do we really have anyone of value to trade?

You mean, besides the blue-chip prospects, that he probably shouldn't trade?

At this point, it'd be worth trading a blue-chipper for some offense, imo. Take away Clemens and possiblity of Pettitte and Oswalt not resigning, and next year's team could be one of the worst in baseball if Purpura stands pat. Don't sell the farm, but, shit, put out a second mortgage if possible. Only problem is that there doesn't appear to be as many sellers as buyers at this point in the season, but this team isn't making the postseason in its current state. Flame away if you'd like.

[Rebel Jew]

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The astros took losing to a whole new level tonight.  They got virtually every fundamental wrong.  Disgraceful on so many levels.  Lidge is done as the closer.  I think Qualls has earned the shot.  Hopefully Lidge can return to a contributing member of the team from middle relief.

Purp's mind must be racing now.  He's got to do something if the team is to have any sort of shot in the 2nd half.  But do we really have anyone of value to trade?

You mean, besides the blue-chip prospects, that he probably shouldn't trade?

At this point, it'd be worth trading a blue-chipper for some offense, imo. Take away Clemens and possiblity of Pettitte and Oswalt not resigning, and next year's team could be one of the worst in baseball if Purpura stands pat. Don't sell the farm, but, shit, put out a second mortgage if possible. Only problem is that there doesn't appear to be as many sellers as buyers at this point in the season, but this team isn't making the postseason in its current state. Flame away if you'd like.

actually, i don't think the trade market is as bad as you make it seem.  with the american league basically being a two-horse race in two of its divisions, you have a lot of teams with a lot of talent that are already long shots to contend this year.  the twins, for instance, as solid a team as they have, are already 9 games back of the wild card and 11 back in the division.  if they're any further back in a couple of weeks, then you gotta think torii hunter and shannon stewart would be available for a reasonable price.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

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But unfortunately Wheels' action that engendered it throws a wrench into my plan for the "Wheel in the Sky" extravaganza.

I guess that's the one positive result, for me, anyway... I hate that song... I hate that singer.  However, Alice Coopers' Under My Wheels, would be perfect, with the opening line, "the telephone is ringing," and the refrain, "I got you under my wheels."

[pravata]

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my heresy du jour: if someone had to give up the winning HR to Pujols, i'm glad it was Oswalt. his ripping the hitters in the media after his last loss was classless and is a sign of a team coming apart. the Astros rarely do this, and Mr. O. may be getting a bit big for his britches. shut the fuck up and pitch, Roy.

Maybe two complete game losses in a row and an (initial) All-Star snub from your own manager earn a guy one "WTF?!?" to the media.  

I agree with you that the team seems in danger of falling apart - Roy O speaking out, Berkman (!) actually speaking out, rumblings of Garner losing the clubhouse for not taking more Astros to the All-Star Game.  I just hope tonight's game, my first at MMPUS this season, is a rebound game and a positive note before the break, as opposed to a "sifting through the wreckage of a lost season game" following a inexcusable, horrendous loss.

From what I've seen the issue of All Star picks is the creation of Jose de Jesus Ortiz, who has, so far, written 6 articles in the paper suggesting that Oswalt is put out by not being picked.  Today he started in on Biggio.

It is true that Mclane talked to Oswalt about accepting after Martinez was scratched.  There was an issue of family plans having to be rearranged.  To some this may not seem like a legitimate problem.

It would be something different if all this wasn't based on a well known muck rackers opinion.  Ortiz cobbles together some quotes from other stories to flesh out his idea that this is a major issue (6 articles worth).  Todays' topper is quotes from his buddies at Mollly's Pub who think Garner isnt loyal.

If a couple of the star players being publicly pissed off about losing will cause the team to "fall apart" it wasn't much of a team to begin with.

the thing i don't understand is how there always seems to be this inexplicably fervent urge among certain people to quantify inherently abstract concepts like "team chemistry" and "choking," and then to somehow apply that fallaciously quantified result to a tangible event.  these people just can't get the simple idea that a sports team usually loses games because it isn't playing well enough to win, or because specific players aren't playing well, or because other teams have more talented players or are playing better.  according to them, the astros aren't losing because they can't consistently score runs, it's because their "team chemistry" is lacking a few subatomic particles.  lidge didn't give up the lead because he threw bad pitches, it's because "he choked."

I tend to think that "team chemistry" means something.  Mostly because I've experienced it.  But "choking"?  I guess people look for what they know.  If you understand pitching mechanics, you look at the lead shoulder.  I don't think Ausmus ever ran out to the mound and advised a pitcher, "don't choke".

[otterj]

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The astros took losing to a whole new level tonight.  They got virtually every fundamental wrong.  Disgraceful on so many levels.  Lidge is done as the closer.  I think Qualls has earned the shot.  Hopefully Lidge can return to a contributing member of the team from middle relief.

Purp's mind must be racing now.  He's got to do something if the team is to have any sort of shot in the 2nd half.  But do we really have anyone of value to trade?

You mean, besides the blue-chip prospects, that he probably shouldn't trade?

At this point, it'd be worth trading a blue-chipper for some offense, imo. Take away Clemens and possiblity of Pettitte and Oswalt not resigning, and next year's team could be one of the worst in baseball if Purpura stands pat. Don't sell the farm, but, shit, put out a second mortgage if possible. Only problem is that there doesn't appear to be as many sellers as buyers at this point in the season, but this team isn't making the postseason in its current state. Flame away if you'd like.

actually, i don't think the trade market is as bad as you make it seem.  with the american league basically being a two-horse race in two of its divisions, you have a lot of teams with a lot of talent that are already long shots to contend this year.  the twins, for instance, as solid a team as they have, are already 9 games back of the wild card and 11 back in the division.  if they're any further back in a couple of weeks, then you gotta think torii hunter and shannon stewart would be available for a reasonable price.

Torii Hunter would be ideal CF'er at MM and would add a lot of power, speed and decent enough average to the lineup. I'd wet my pants if he became an Astro.

[JimR]

you're the one FOS, matty boy. he is flying open, as Garner himself has said, and he is blaming his problems on everything but the way he is throwing. he is scared that his mechanics are deserting him so he is denying that he has any problems that are attributable to his arm. were there two outs when he hit Eckstein? was that choking?

how do you define "choke," Mr. Baseball Expert? having bad results with the game on the line? did Branca choke in 1951? did McCovey in 1962? did Terry in 1960? did Oswalt choke in Game 3 last year? did Clemens choke in Game 1? if Lidge is a choker, how do you explain all his saves? you think he never pitched under pressure before? did he all of a sudden become a choker?

you keyboard jocks slay me. you sit there behind your anonymous name and call major league players chokers.

believe it or not, Mr. Expert on Choking. he has mechanical problems that he can fix. who knows if he will.

your bs is so frontrunning lame.

[hostros7]

Well, hopefully he doesn't let his mechanical problems indelibly infiltrate his psyche and thus become a choker, although I would not call him such at this point...ala "wild thing."  Or can we say he ever didn't have mechanical problems?

[Outlawscotty]

believe it or not, Mr. Expert on Choking. he has mechanical problems that he can fix. who knows if he will.

Maybe I'm wrong but, if you are a Major League pitcher/releiver, how can you blame your performance on anything?  The catcher calls the pitch (am I right or wrong?), and the pitcher has to be able to deliver that pitch accordingly, therefore trusting the knowledge of the scouting reports given.  If a Lidge say is unable to throw a fastball or slider to the location specified, is it that he doesn't 'trust his stuff' or is a 'headcase' or is it simply because he can't get it there due to a problem unforseen?  Seems to me, if there was a doubt in Lidge's mind at all, he could depend on Ausmus to tell him what to do in any case.  If his location is the problem, how do you explain it?  Is it that Lidge doesn't want to listen to his catcher, or he lust can't do it due to some other problem i.e. mechanics?  If you were struggling as Lidge is, wouldn't you trust your catcher to call the right pitch?  This may not apply to the other relievers, but in Lidge's case I can see it.  The theory of a mechanical problem make to much sense.

[HudsonHawk]

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Maybe I'm wrong but, if you are a Major League pitcher/releiver, how can you blame your performance on anything?

Are you serious?  You don't think there's always a reason why you don't perform up to your ability?

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  The catcher calls the pitch (am I right or wrong?)

The catcher "suggests" a pitch.  The pitcher makes the ultimate decision.

[Outlawscotty]

OK, but if your last name is Lidge, wouldn't you put your faith in what an Ausmus has to say?  Sure there's a reason, but does it have to be a lame excuse like 'trusting your stuff?'  Fastball is fastball, slider is slider.  Location is the tough part right?  I'm not trying to be a smartass, but I really don't understand the excuse other that a mechanical problem that results in a fat pitch more ties than not.

[Bench]

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Are you serious?  You don't think there's always a reason why you don't perform up to your ability?

Lack of preparation, lack of good decision making, lack of execution, lack of ability.

They're all very different things with very different causes and very different effects. Lumping any failed result under an umbrella "choking" is fatuous.

See, for example: Open, US, 2006.

[HudsonHawk]

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OK, but if your last name is Lidge, wouldn't you put your faith in what an Ausmus has to say?

I certainly listen.  Of course, Ausmus wasn't catching Lidge last night.

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  Sure there's a reason, but does it have to be a lame excuse like 'trusting your stuff?'

Of course not.  It shouldn't be a lame excuse.  But there are reasons why you don't perform.  

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I'm not trying to be a smartass, but I really don't understand the excuse other that a mechanical problem that results in a fat pitch more ties than not.

OK, I hear you now.  But that's not what you said earlier.

[Outlawscotty]

Lack of preparation, lack of good decision making, lack of execution, lack of ability.




Coach fault; Lidge/catcher fault, Lidge fault; BS.

"I certainly listen. Of course, Ausmus wasn't catching Lidge last night"

I understand that; it was a given on my part that Ausmus would catch him.  Maybe last night is not a good example, but given the experience of Lidge, he could pull through?

I'm sorry I can't see every angle in reading every possible scenario but, if you start sucking consistently, it could just possibly be your fault.

[Bench]

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Lack of preparation, lack of good decision making, lack of execution, lack of ability.




Coach fault; Lidge/catcher fault, Lidge fault; BS.

"I certainly listen. Of course, Ausmus wasn't catching Lidge last night"

I understand that; it was a given on my part that Ausmus would catch him.  Maybe last night is not a good example, but given the experience of Lidge, he could pull through?

I'm sorry I can't see every angle in reading every possible scenario but, if you start sucking consistently, it could just possibly be your fault.

I forgot lack of effort. As in, you make no attempt to try and figure out why something going's wrong other than to say "it's your fault."

[Outlawscotty]

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Lack of preparation, lack of good decision making, lack of execution, lack of ability.




Coach fault; Lidge/catcher fault, Lidge fault; BS.

"I certainly listen. Of course, Ausmus wasn't catching Lidge last night"

I understand that; it was a given on my part that Ausmus would catch him.  Maybe last night is not a good example, but given the experience of Lidge, he could pull through?

I'm sorry I can't see every angle in reading every possible scenario but, if you start sucking consistently, it could just possibly be your fault.

I forgot lack of effort. As in, you make no attempt to try and figure out why something going's wrong other than to say "it's your fault."

Oh, you mean lack of culpability.....

[matadorph]

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you're the one FOS, matty boy. he is flying open, as Garner himself has said, and he is blaming his problems on everything but the way he is throwing.

Lidge's mechanics are fucked? Who knew!!?? Just don't anyone dare suggest that his mechanical problems might have anything at all to do with his state of mind because a professional athlete like Brad Lidge could never be considered anything but psychologically sound or he wouldn't be where he is today. What the dumbasses not graced with JimR's intuitive knowledge of the game don't get is that Brad Lidge still doesn't really know he's flying open. He's certainly been told this upteen million times by Phil Garner and Jim Hickey, but that stubborn fool is just not honest with himself about his real problem. Maybe if Lidge would just listen to JimR and be honest with himself and stop blaming his problems on anything but JimR's solution.....

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he is scared that his mechanics are deserting him so he is denying that he has any problems that are attributable to his arm....

 

For the record: not okay to call Brad Lidge a "headcase" or a "choker", perfectly okay to call him "scared" and self-deluded. Ah, gotta love the rules according to Jim! What a fucking hypocritical asshole.

[Outlawscotty]

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you're the one FOS, matty boy. he is flying open, as Garner himself has said, and he is blaming his problems on everything but the way he is throwing.

Lidge's mechanics are fucked? Who knew!!?? Just don't anyone dare suggest that his mechanical problems might have anything at all to do with his state of mind because a professional athlete like Brad Lidge could never be considered anything but psychologically sound or he wouldn't be where he is today. What the dumbasses not graced with JimR's intuitive knowledge of the game don't get is that Brad Lidge still doesn't really know he's flying open. He's certainly been told this upteen million times by Phil Garner and Jim Hickey, but that stubborn fool is just not honest with himself about his real problem. Maybe if Lidge would just listen to JimR and be honest with himself and stop blaming his problems on anything but JimR's solution.....

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he is scared that his mechanics are deserting him so he is denying that he has any problems that are attributable to his arm....

 

For the record: not okay to call Brad Lidge a "headcase" or a "choker", perfectly okay to call him "scared" and self-deluded. Ah, gotta love the rules according to Jim! What a fucking hypocritical asshole.

Jim ain't in this conversation yet;  Is he in time-out and therefore can't watch himself in the film room?  It won't lie.  I didn't call him anything for the record; I was just trying to get a feel for opinions.  Mine is that it is a physical problem.  I am not currently comfortable with him closing a tight game or even converting a  hold .  Everything considered, I feel for him.

[Golden Sombrero]

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Everything considered, I feel for him.

So do I.  He has set very high standards for himself and it's hard to live up to those.  There's no doubt he has the heart of a winner.  It's not easy to see him struggle like this, and to hear people boo him who only last season cheered him on.  Sometimes I have placed too much blame on Lidge, when he is only part of the problem.  But as closer he can sometimes be the most visible failing.  It seems that when he succeeds, it's doing his job and is no big deal.  When he fails it is pandemonium.  I do think he'll get things back under control, but for right now I think the team has to come first.  Lidge can get his game back in middle relief, and maybe Qualls can get the job done as closer.  

Lidge has been the microcosm of the season.  He has struggled at times, then it looks like he's back to his winning ways.  Then a relapse to the woes.   I'll keep pulling for him to make a comeback, just as I will with the team.

[JimR]

i'm a "fucking hypocrite?" wow, that is a new epithet for me. i think i've been pretty consistent on this subject. do you remember the days long thread on "pitcherspeak?"

matty boy, you are the latest in a long line of idiots posting here. if your team wins, everything is fine. if it loses, the guys who played bad "choked." you are a frontrunner, and we have had many. i'm guessing you topped out in PONY League, if you got that far.

have you ever failed at anything that really meant something to other people? probably not, but if you did, were you a choker?

you do not have a clue.

[cc]

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Lidge's mechanics are fucked? Who knew!!?? Just don't anyone dare suggest that his mechanical problems might have anything at all to do with his state of mind because a professional athlete like Brad Lidge could never be considered anything but psychologically sound or he wouldn't be where he is today. What the dumbasses not graced with JimR's intuitive knowledge of the game don't get is that Brad Lidge still doesn't really know he's flying open. He's certainly been told this upteen million times by Phil Garner and Jim Hickey, but that stubborn fool is just not honest with himself about his real problem. Maybe if Lidge would just listen to JimR and be honest with himself and stop blaming his problems on anything but JimR's solution....

As usual, it's probably a combination of things: mechanics, confidence, and maybe even injury.  One fault begets the other, begets still the other.  It doesn't matter how it originated, because he's off and needs all three to be effective.  As far as Lidge's acknowledging that his mechanics are off, that process can be parsed further as well.  A former pro scout for the White Sox and Cardinals recently told me that one of the reasons one organization relied on videotape analysis more than the other is that the latter believed the player had to see a flaw correctly in his mind before he could ever translate it to the plate or mound.  Otherwise, all the videotape in the world clearly diagnosing his mistakes would never lead the player to actually make the necessary corrections.  Maybe that's where Lidge is right now.  He knows he's flying open but can't keep himself from doing it when he's in the stretch in crucial situations.

And it's about as silly to reflexively blame Jim Hickey for Lidge's problems as it was to anoint Don Baylor for Hidalgo's "success."