Wandy

[Astroholic]

Does Wandy have any trade value?  If I were the GM (and I am not) I would be looking to see what type of interest there is in Wandy while he still has a good record. (kind of like 15 game winner)

With Backe coming back and Hirsh, Nieve, Buchholtz and Sampson all looking good, Wandy might be expendable.

Thoughts?

[jasonact]

I agree that he probably is expendable. At most, he might bring an average middle-relief guy. Given the way the BP has been overall this season, that could be a big help, so it's not out of the question But if you're thinking he would bring a hitter of any consequence, no way.

Then again, the available pitching at the deadline will be sparse, so maybe they can catch a desparate GM at the right time. Still, I doubt Wandy's a key to any meaningful trades this season.

ETA: My guess is that Wandy finishes the season as an Astro. I know. It's a stretch.

[davek]

In his last 6 starts his ERA is approaching 6.50 while opponents are hitting right at .400...

Winning record be damned, now is probably not an opportune time to be shopping him...

[tophfar]

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Does Wandy have any trade value?  If I were the GM (and I am not) I would be looking to see what type of interest there is in Wandy while he still has a good record. (kind of like 15 game winner)

With Backe coming back and Hirsh, Nieve, Buchholtz and Sampson all looking good, Wandy might be expendable.

Thoughts?

so i'm driving home last night and for some reason decided to try and make my ears bleed so i turned on the tenth inning show.

first caller i hear ask if purpura was a good GM, which the caller knows he is not, he would trade wandy right now, citing such things as the much maligned j. robertson, run support, and the fact that wandy sucks.  

he also then goes on to add that he hates brad lidge because , im not sure why.  because after having a bad game lidge doesnt "own up" to his fuck ups, and never says that he made a bad pitch or had a bad game.  which all this caller would like to hear and it would make him feel better.

which is what we all want of course, for that caller to feel better.

so all i want to know is, was this caller you?  or did you listen to him and think, man this guy is fucking brilliant?

thanks, i'll hang up and listen.

[tophfar]

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In his last 6 starts his ERA is approaching 6.50 while opponents are hitting right at .400...

Winning record be damned, now is probably not an opportune time to be shopping him...

exactly, and what makes anyone think that OTHER TEAMS DON'T KNOW THIS ALSO?

edited to add the exactly, didnt want no mis-construations on this here intarwebs.

[Astroholic]

No I did not hear the call and thanks for making me feel dirty.  

I would not expect any thing great for Wandy (middle relief would be good), just think there is a glut of young pitching avaliable/ready and would like to see them get a chance.

As far as Lidge goes, I like him a lot, as long as he stays cheap.

[Astroholic]

Other teams do know this, but that does not mean they won't trade for him.

[astro pete]

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In his last 6 starts his ERA is approaching 6.50 while opponents are hitting right at .400...

Winning record be damned, now is probably not an opportune time to be shopping him...

exactly, and what makes anyone think that OTHER TEAMS DON'T KNOW THIS ALSO?

edited to add the exactly, didnt want no mis-construations on this here intarwebs.

Yeah, but you should see his ERA for the innings in which he hasn't given up a run.

[No? in Austin]

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Other teams do know this, but that does not mean they won't trade for him.

Many teams would trade for pitching, many of those are however the lower rung type of team.  But you can find gems in lower rung teams.  Mostly high priced veterans, so don't expect to trade Wandy for a cheap, young, good hitter.

This is not Dave Burba for Brian Giles or Larry Anderson for Jeff Bagwell.  It may, however, be the type of trade where you could acquire say a Mark Loretta type of player.  Go ahead and find one though.  But overall, Wandy has trade value if you realize it is within a certain parameter.

Say Wandy for a Reggie Sanders type of player.

[Astroholic]

Middle relief, Sanders type or a prospect would be what I was talking about.  A trade would free up a spot for some of the young bright arms to get a shot.

[jasonact]

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Many teams would trade for pitching, many of those are however the lower rung type of team.  But you can find gems in lower rung teams.  Mostly high priced veterans, so don't expect to trade Wandy for a cheap, young, good hitter.

This is not Dave Burba for Brian Giles or Larry Anderson for Jeff Bagwell.  It may, however, be the type of trade where you could acquire say a Mark Loretta type of player.  Go ahead and find one though.  But overall, Wandy has trade value if you realize it is within a certain parameter.

Say Wandy for a Reggie Sanders type of player.

Generally speaking, I like Wandy, and I still think he could be a solid #3 pitcher, but if the Astros get an offer like that, I hope they jump at the chance.

[Astroholic]

I not sure I would say Wandy has 3rd starter potential (especially on the stros).  Now, if Purp could find some other team thinking that highly about him...

[davek]

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Generally speaking, I like Wandy, and I still think he could be a solid #3 pitcher, but if the Astros get an offer like that, I hope they jump at the chance.

You would trade a "solid #3 pitcher" for a 38 1/2 year old part time outfielder on the downside of his career?...

Wow...

[No? in Austin]

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Middle relief, Sanders type or a prospect would be what I was talking about.  A trade would free up a spot for some of the young bright arms to get a shot.

I would think so.  This is not about getting rid of Wandy though, which I guess is what the caller to the tenth inning was alluding to.  But his value is something that should be level set appropriately.  I would think the new GM at Kansas City or even our old friend in Tampa Bay (Mr. Hunsicker) might be interested in him.  Maybe Cleveland, maybe Colorado, maybe Texas, maybe Seattle... but they all would not be dealing anything spectacular back.

[davek]

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but they all would not be dealing anything spectacular back.

You could probably expect a Mike Gallo in trade for Wandy...

Oh wait...

[jasonact]

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Generally speaking, I like Wandy, and I still think he could be a solid #3 pitcher, but if the Astros get an offer like that, I hope they jump at the chance.

You would trade a "solid #3 pitcher" for a 38 1/2 year old part time outfielder on the downside of his career?...

Wow...

I said he could be a solid #3 pitcher. He certainly isn't yet. That's why I would do it. Given the fact that he is not a #3 starter yet (and might never be) and given the depth of young quality starters the Astros seem to have, despite their inexperience in the big leagues, yes, I would do that deal at this time. And I don't think it's that much of a stretch.

[jasonact]

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This is not about getting rid of Wandy though.

Exactly. Important point.

[Astroholic]

You could probably expect a Mike Gallo in trade for Wandy...

Oh wait...



Come on now.  I don't think he is third starter material, but Gallo?  He has more value than that.

[No? in Austin]

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You could probably expect a Mike Gallo in trade for Wandy...

Oh wait...

Come on now.  I don't think he is third starter material, but Gallo?  He has more value than that.



I think one of the more important items to consider is what The Count has repeatedly said the last month.  Where in the lineup would one make a change.  We're not talking about a top of the lineup bat (IMHO) or a bottom of the lineup bat either (IMHO).  It is a middle of the lineup stick: #4, 5, 6 or even 7 (although a #7 type is a stretch).

So that being the case, who of Preston Wilson, Jason Lane or Morgan Esberg would you sit or even get rid of?  That is what Purpura is asking and it requires and answer before you make a trade for a bat.  Of course Mike Lamb is an answer, but then you need to replace his bat in the bench.

Would a Daryle Ward work for anyone?  Ward for Wandy seems a little one-sided, but it would make Lamb available to play everyday.  Ward off the bench?  Maybe if you package Wandy and either Lane or Taveras you could get more.  A top flight reliever and an add-in like Ward.  You think?  Would you also go talk to the Pirates to see if they want to make a deal for a Wilson sister and a reliever?  They could add Wandy and Lane to their group of hitters and lefty pitchers.  You want more than that?

[Astroholic]

Right on target.

[Ty in Tampa]

U TRADE WANDY U FOO!

[Reuben]

I would like to trade Wandy for the uninjured version of Morgan Ensberg. That would go a long way toward shoring up the lineup.

[No? in Austin]

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I would like to trade Wandy for the uninjured version of Morgan Ensberg. That would go a long way toward shoring up the lineup.

Looks like Morgan lost his cleanup spot in the lineup.  I'm convinced that Berkman will be batting fourth from now on.  But I'm not convinced that Burke should hit #3 and Lamb should hit #2.  I'd switch Burke to #2 and move Lamb to either #3 or #5, but then you'd have two lefty hitters in the lineup back to back.  If they could find a very good right handed hitting outfielder who can handle the #4 spot, they would absolutely have a winner of a lineup.  Is that Ensberg or somebody else?  Who would that right handed hitting bat be?  Who in their right mind would trade a cleanup hitter?

That is a tall order for Purpura to fill with the trade fodder he has.  Moving Berkman back to #3, Lamb to #5, Burke to #2 is awesome to consider.  Ensberg at #7 or #6 and Wilson at whatever Ensberg is not hitting in the lineup.  What #4 is available that hits right handed?  Phil Nevin?  Nahhhh, although I bet the Cubs would consider it.

[Astroholic]

What type of players would it take to get Carlos Lee?  I don't think Wandy is enough, what about Wandy/Lane?

[JimR]

i agree that Super Burke should be in the 2 hole and Lamb should be in an RBI spot. he wants to hit in front of Berkman, no matter where Berkman is.

trade for Chipper, i tells ya, and bat him 4th.

[tophfar]

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This is not about getting rid of Wandy though, which I guess is what the caller to the tenth inning was alluding to.

...

but they all would not be dealing anything spectacular back.

 

perzactly.

[tophfar]

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trade for Chipper, i tells ya, and bat him 4th.

wandy for chipper straight up, done.

[CJM]

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What type of players would it take to get Carlos Lee?  I don't think Wandy is enough, what about Wandy/Lane?

I can't imagine the Brewers would trade Lee right now.  Looking at the standings, they have to feel they are still in the WC race at least (3.5 games back like the Astros).

[Reuben]

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i agree that Super Burke should be in the 2 hole and Lamb should be in an RBI spot. he wants to hit in front of Berkman, no matter where Berkman is.

trade for Chipper, i tells ya, and bat him 4th.

Yeah, I thought you'd taken care of that, and got Smoltz too. But, where's the power from Chipper this year? Was he hurt earlier, or is he slowing down?

 edit: he was on the DL earlier, still hitting for much less power than normal though.

[jasonact]

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i agree that Super Burke should be in the 2 hole and Lamb should be in an RBI spot. he wants to hit in front of Berkman, no matter where Berkman is.

trade for Chipper, i tells ya, and bat him 4th.

I don't think Chipper goes anywhere, at least not this year, no matter how far the Braves fall.

ETA: But because the Tigers are my #2 team, I wouldn't mind seeing Smoltz back home with them, as has been rumored.

[jasonact]

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What type of players would it take to get Carlos Lee?  I don't think Wandy is enough, what about Wandy/Lane?

I can't imagine the Brewers would trade Lee right now.  Looking at the standings, they have to feel they are still in the WC race at least (3.5 games back like the Astros).

Even if the Brewers were sellers, which I agree they are not at this point, they would want a heckuva lot more for Lee than Lane and Wandy. I'm sure their price would be cost-prohibitive for the Astros, especially considering Lee would be a rent-a-player (FA this off-season).

[pravata]

David O'Brien, Atl J. Constitution 6/26 blog

Schuerholz was working on a deal the other day, which was the reason he was late to his book signing at Turner Field. The deal fell through at the last minute, from what I?m told. Don?t know which one it was, but I know they?ve had their antennae up and had discussions for everybody from reliever Salomon Torres to outfielders Carlos Lee (no longer available, it appears), Kevin Mench and speedy leadoff man Dave Roberts, and the aforementioned Wilson.
The Link

What do you think of that?  A reporter, reporting what he's been told and not imaginary tea parties.

[JimR]

i caught so much shit about it, i cancelled the deal.

[No? in Austin]

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...from reliever Salomon Torres to...

Salomon Torres and Craig Wilson is who I was thinking eggszactly about.  I'd bat him fourth between Berkman and Lamb.  Lamb would have Preston Wilson (our own version of the the Wislon Sisters - ebony and ivory style) protecting him.

Wandy wouldn't net you Wilson and Torres together, but Wandy and perhaps a lower minor leaguer will.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

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i caught so much shit about it, i cancelled the deal.

What?  Why?  The only problem I had is with calling a grown man "Chipper".  But it wouldn't be too difficult to call him Larry Jr.!  Maybe LJ, for short.  That was a sweet deal Jim.  I think you should do everything in your power to make that deal happen.

[JimR]

too late. i said "shitfuck" and pounded the ole Budweiser.

[pravata]

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i caught so much shit about it, i cancelled the deal.

What?  Why?  The only problem I had is with calling a grown man "Chipper".  But it wouldn't be too difficult to call him Larry Jr.!  Maybe LJ, for short.  That was a sweet deal Jim.  I think you should do everything in your power to make that deal happen.

The only problem?! Have you forgotten the cropped t-shirt riots of '95 in Atlanta?  I don't think Houston has that many fire hoses.

[pravata]

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...from reliever Salomon Torres to...

Salomon Torres and Craig Wilson is who I was thinking eggszactly about.  I'd bat him fourth between Berkman and Lamb.  Lamb would have Preston Wilson (our own version of the the Wislon Sisters - ebony and ivory style) protecting him.

Wandy wouldn't net you Wilson and Torres together, but Wandy and perhaps a lower minor leaguer will.

Craig Wilson, ehh...?  Here's what a reporter for the Pitt. Post Gazette thinks about trading Craig Wilson,

"I frankly hope they don't insist on a major-league ready player. The farm system is depleted above Class A. They could use some prospects," The Link

$3,300,000 signed for this year only, I think.  Apparently when the Cardinals inquired, the Pirates requested Anthony Reyes.

[No? in Austin]

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$3,300,000 signed for this year only, I think.  Apparently when the Cardinals inquired, the Pirates requested Anthony Reyes.

All of a sudden the organization that gave away Aramis Ramirez for a bunch of nobodies wants to hold up people?  Maybe they got emboldened when they were able to turn Jason Bay out of Brian Giles.  But that was Brian Giles...

If the Pirates want Anthony Reyes for Craig Wilson, then I say shop elsewhere, they're not really wanting to deal.

[Bench]

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 Maybe they got emboldened when they were able to turn Jason Bay out of Brian Giles.  But that was Brian Giles...

 

And they turned Brian Giles out of Ricardo Rincon. Rincon has to be the most valuable Pirate since 1993.

[No? in Austin]

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 Maybe they got emboldened when they were able to turn Jason Bay out of Brian Giles.  But that was Brian Giles...

 

And they turned Brian Giles out of Ricardo Rincon. Rincon has to be the most valuable Pirate since 1993.

I thought Giles came by way of Dave Burba, but you may be right.  Either Richie Sexson or Sean Casey came by way of Rincon or Burba.  The Indians had a ton of good prospects they gave away in order to fill their roster of veterans to win now!  Can't blame them, they had Manny Ramirez, Jim Thome, Joey Belle, et. al.  And very thin pitching.

[austro]

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All of a sudden the organization that gave away Aramis Ramirez for a bunch of nobodies wants to hold up people?

Wasn't it Ramirez AND Lofton for a bunch of nobodies?  Right after Patterson tore up his knee?  What a fleecing.

I just looked it up: Ramirez and Lofton in exchange for Jose Hernandez (!?!), minor league pitcher Matt Brubeck (who?), and a player to be named, which turned out to be Bobby Hill.  Of those three, only Hernandez appears still to have a big-league job (and even then, only if you call 62 at-bats this year a job).  But he only has 10 strikeouts in those 62 at-bats, which is about half his career rate, so he's got that going for him.

Wow, you want to see an ugly line?  Here are Hernandez's numbers for the year: .177/.239/.274.  Yecch.

Meanwhile, Lofton just keeps going on like the Energizer bunny.  He's hitting .290/.343/.379 in 214 at-bats for the Dodgers.  He's even 14 out of 15 in steals.

[No? in Austin]

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All of a sudden the organization that gave away Aramis Ramirez for a bunch of nobodies wants to hold up people?

Wasn't it Ramirez AND Lofton for a bunch of nobodies?  Right after Patterson tore up his knee?  What a fleecing.

I just looked it up: Ramirez and Lofton in exchange for Jose Hernandez (!?!), minor league pitcher Matt Brubeck (who?), and a player to be named, which turned out to be Bobby Hill.  Of those three, only Hernandez appears still to have a big-league job (and even then, only if you call 62 at-bats this year a job).  But he only has 10 strikeouts in those 62 at-bats, which is about half his career rate, so he's got that going for him.

Wow, you want to see an ugly line?  Here are Hernandez's numbers for the year: .177/.239/.274.  Yecch.

Meanwhile, Lofton just keeps going on like the Energizer bunny.  He's hitting .290/.343/.379 in 214 at-bats for the Dodgers.  He's even 14 out of 15 in steals.

I think the Pirates later added Randall Simon to the deal in order to get Bobby Hill as the PTBNL.

[stubbyc]

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...from reliever Salomon Torres to...

Salomon Torres and Craig Wilson is who I was thinking eggszactly about.  I'd bat him fourth between Berkman and Lamb.  Lamb would have Preston Wilson (our own version of the the Wislon Sisters - ebony and ivory style) protecting him.

Wandy wouldn't net you Wilson and Torres together, but Wandy and perhaps a lower minor leaguer will.

I'd love Wilson with the way he hits lefties, but I don't think they have much use for Wandy. They have a ton of lefty starters with comparable value to Wandy already.

[Bench]

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 Maybe they got emboldened when they were able to turn Jason Bay out of Brian Giles.  But that was Brian Giles...

 

And they turned Brian Giles out of Ricardo Rincon. Rincon has to be the most valuable Pirate since 1993.

I thought Giles came by way of Dave Burba, but you may be right.  Either Richie Sexson or Sean Casey came by way of Rincon or Burba.  The Indians had a ton of good prospects they gave away in order to fill their roster of veterans to win now!  Can't blame them, they had Manny Ramirez, Jim Thome, Joey Belle, et. al.  And very thin pitching.

From  Brian Giles' Baseball-Reference Page

November 18, 1998: Traded by the Cleveland Indians to the Pittsburgh Pirates for Ricardo Rincon.

August 26, 2003: Traded by the Pittsburgh Pirates to the San Diego Padres for a player to be named later, Jason Bay, and Oliver Perez. The San Diego Padres sent Corey Stewart (minors) (October 2, 2003) to the Pittsburgh Pirates to complete the trade

[austro]

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I think the Pirates later added Randall Simon to the deal in order to get Bobby Hill as the PTBNL.

According to Baseball-Reference, Simon was a separate straight-up deal for Ray Sadler in August 2003 (the Ramirez-Lofton deal was in July 2003).  I remember being annoyed by that one, too, because he served as a pretty good left-handed bat off the bench for Chicago.  Sadler appears to have had a total of 8 ABs with Pittsburgh.

Oddly enough, Baseball-Reference doesn't cite the date of Simon's (in?)famous sausage-plunking in Milwaukee.

[homer]

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I think the Pirates later added Randall Simon to the deal in order to get Bobby Hill as the PTBNL.

According to Baseball-Reference, Simon was a separate straight-up deal for Ray Sadler in August 2003 (the Ramirez-Lofton deal was in July 2003).  I remember being annoyed by that one, too, because he served as a pretty good left-handed bat off the bench for Chicago.  Sadler appears to have had a total of 8 ABs with Pittsburgh.

Oddly enough, Baseball-Reference doesn't cite the date of Simon's (in?)famous sausage-plunking in Milwaukee.

 July 9, 2003

[Reuben]

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$3,300,000 signed for this year only, I think.  Apparently when the Cardinals inquired, the Pirates requested Anthony Reyes.

All of a sudden the organization that gave away Aramis Ramirez for a bunch of nobodies wants to hold up people?  Maybe they got emboldened when they were able to turn Jason Bay out of Brian Giles.  But that was Brian Giles...

If the Pirates want Anthony Reyes for Craig Wilson, then I say shop elsewhere, they're not really wanting to deal.

I think you might be on to something about the Bay swindle, ala the Devil Rays thinking they can get Scott Kazmir for every Victor Zambrano. Now that Sean Casey's back, they have Wilson platooning, it seems, with Burnitz. I'm sure they want to trade him, but feel that they have 10 or 12 teams by the balls.

Wilson wouldn't exactly be the most fearsome cleanup hitter either, IMO (though better than Preston, and a great platoon partner w/ Lamb).

[Reuben]

Who else is out there to trade for?
Soriano, expensive rental
R. Sanders, great guy, but no thanks
Jacque Jones, no no no
Abreu, prohibitive contract?
Burrell, available?
Richie Sexson?
Carlos Lee, not yet
Bill Hall, expendable?
Luis Gonzalez, for a song I'm sure
Andruw Jones? $13m for 2007, supposedly may be traded
Huff, recovering from terrible start
Carl Crawford?

[stubbyc]

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$3,300,000 signed for this year only, I think.  Apparently when the Cardinals inquired, the Pirates requested Anthony Reyes.

All of a sudden the organization that gave away Aramis Ramirez for a bunch of nobodies wants to hold up people?  Maybe they got emboldened when they were able to turn Jason Bay out of Brian Giles.  But that was Brian Giles...

If the Pirates want Anthony Reyes for Craig Wilson, then I say shop elsewhere, they're not really wanting to deal.

I think you might be on to something about the Bay swindle, ala the Devil Rays thinking they can get Scott Kazmir for every Victor Zambrano. Now that Sean Casey's back, they have Wilson platooning, it seems, with Burnitz. I'm sure they want to trade him, but feel that they have 10 or 12 teams by the balls.

Wilson wouldn't exactly be the most fearsome cleanup hitter either, IMO (though better than Preston, and a great platoon partner w/ Lamb).

It's amazing how they now want so much for a player they didn't even value enough to start in any position against any pitcher at the start of the year. He's in the last year of his contract and with the Pirates going nowhere you would think they would want to get the most they could for him. Instead, they're still not playing him and still not moving him.

Wilson would make an excellent platoon partner with Lamb of course, but I don't think they have any interest in Wandy and I'm not sure if any of our other expendable players have enough value.