Author Topic: Steroid names starting to leak....  (Read 9248 times)

HudsonHawk

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Steroid names starting to leak....
« on: June 08, 2006, 06:24:17 pm »
First rumblings about the "blacked out" names on Jason Grimsley's file are starting to be felt.  Sammy Sosa is purportedly one of the names on the list.  Another is Chris Mihfield, former strength and conditioning coach for the Royals and longtime personal trainer to one Pujols, Albert.  This will get interesting.
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Froback

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2006, 06:27:26 pm »
Link?

HudsonHawk

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2006, 06:29:36 pm »
Quote:

Link?




The Link

Here's one.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

astro pete

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2006, 06:43:04 pm »
Quote:

First rumblings about the "blacked out" names on Jason Grimsley's file are starting to be felt.  Sammy Sosa is purportedly one of the names on the list.  Another is Chris Mihfield, former strength and conditioning coach for the Royals and longtime personal trainer to one Pujols, Albert.  This will get interesting.




Very interesting indeed...

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2006, 06:43:15 pm »
Quote:

First rumblings about the "blacked out" names on Jason Grimsley's file are starting to be felt.  Sammy Sosa is purportedly one of the names on the list.  Another is Chris Mihfield, former strength and conditioning coach for the Royals and longtime personal trainer to one Pujols, Albert.  This will get interesting.



Pooholes is an amazing hitter.  But he's not legit: I believe his age is bogus (not that it matters much to anyone other than his boss) and now it appears he's juiced.  This could be one of the fastest falls from grace ever experienced in baseball.
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2006, 06:49:42 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

First rumblings about the "blacked out" names on Jason Grimsley's file are starting to be felt.  Sammy Sosa is purportedly one of the names on the list.  Another is Chris Mihfield, former strength and conditioning coach for the Royals and longtime personal trainer to one Pujols, Albert.  This will get interesting.



Pooholes is an amazing hitter.  But he's not legit: I believe his age is bogus (not that it matters much to anyone other than his boss) and now it appears he's juiced.  This could be one of the fastest falls from grace ever experienced in baseball.





The names need to be leaked sooner than later.  Best interest of the game, whatever. The speculation is going to continue.  Watching FOX they listed every prominent player Grimsley has ever played with.  And some of them had normal hat sizes.

astro pete

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2006, 06:51:27 pm »
 
Quote:

 
Last October 20, one day after the Cardinals were eliminated from the NLCS, Pujols was on the phone with Chris Mihlfeld , a Kansas City trainer who works with Pujols in the offseason. "Chris," he said, "we need to work on my situational hitting." Situational hitting? Pujols had just finished a season in which he hit .329 with runners in scoring position.





Talking to his trainer about situational hitting?  Riiiight...

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2006, 06:57:11 pm »
Quote:

Talking to his trainer about situational hitting?  Riiiight...0



I thought the most interesting phrase, given the news in this thread, was "Chris Mihlfeld, a Kansas City trainer who works with Pujols in the offseason".  Wouldn't you want hittting tips during the sseason?  What would you not want to risk getting from Mihfiled during the season?

Oh, and how come Deveney doesn't tells us what Pooholes schlong tastes like?
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astro pete

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2006, 07:19:33 pm »
And then there's this gem:

 
Quote:

How could so many teams have been so wrong in failing to see the potential of a player who may ultimately prove to be one of the best to ever lace up the spikes?




 
Quote:

To be sure, when he was a 17-year-old kid playing for Meyer's Kansas City Sluggers summer team, not even those closest to Pujols dreamed that he would average .332, 40 homers and 124 RBIs in his first five big-league seasons




 
Quote:

Not even those who saw Pujols' obvious power as a teenager envisioned that he would soon become a marvelously sculpted 6-foot-3, 225-pound five-tool player.  




 
Quote:

 many baseball scouts had concerns about Pujols, a power-hitting shortstop when he played on a Missouri state championship team at Fort Osage in 1997.

"He was really kind of a pear-shaped kid, heavy from the waist down, and that scared some scouts off," Meyer remembered.





 
Quote:

Consequently, a frustrated Albert Pujols - after spending a year at Kansas City's Maple Woods Community College, where he met strength and conditioning guru  Chris Mihlfeld  and started the process of building an Adonis-like upper body - waited 13 rounds before getting the call from the Cardinals.





 From Pear to Adonis

matadorph

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2006, 07:57:41 pm »
Nice. Fuck Pujols and his fake humility. Couldn't happen to a better team and a more annoying set of fans. Erm, uh, allegedly.

tophfar

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2006, 09:12:30 pm »
it's amazing to me to watch the progression from not even being named in the affidavit to being drawn and quartered for doing HGH inside of an afternoon.

I seemingly remember a Biggio thread where those reporting rumors were lamblasted for lack of credible evidence.

In this case, the evidence presented, is a friend of someone that has neither been arrested, tried, nor convicted.  but simply been named by a former player, for all the worth of a "well he said it".  and the rest of it consists of the fact that he grew up from being a teenager.

good job everyone on staying level-headed and objective.  how about waiting until some actual real information comes out before busting your collective nuts.
Here are just a few of the key ingredients: dynamite, pole vaulting, laughing gas, choppers - can you see how incredible this is going to be?

astro pete

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2006, 09:23:04 pm »
Quote:


good job everyone on staying level-headed and objective.  how about waiting until some actual real information comes out before busting your collective nuts.





Fuck level-headedness and being objective.  It's Pooholes.

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2006, 11:02:03 pm »
Quote:

Quote:


good job everyone on staying level-headed and objective.  how about waiting until some actual real information comes out before busting your collective nuts.





Fuck level-headedness and being objective.  It's Pooholes.





I don't like the kid, but he's got a point.
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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2006, 11:15:16 pm »
Quote:

Quote:


good job everyone on staying level-headed and objective.  how about waiting until some actual real information comes out before busting your collective nuts.





Fuck level-headedness and being objective.  It's Pooholes.





He hasn't been fingered, much less investigated.
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cougar

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2006, 11:48:26 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


good job everyone on staying level-headed and objective.  how about waiting until some actual real information comes out before busting your collective nuts.





Fuck level-headedness and being objective.  It's Pooholes.




He hasn't been fingered, much less investigated.




I know I'd finger Pooholes.

Wait, that did not sound the way I wanted it to sound.

CJM

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2006, 12:45:23 am »
Quote:

it's amazing to me to watch the progression from not even being named in the affidavit to being drawn and quartered for doing HGH inside of an afternoon.

I seemingly remember a Biggio thread where those reporting rumors were lamblasted for lack of credible evidence.

In this case, the evidence presented, is a friend of someone that has neither been arrested, tried, nor convicted.  but simply been named by a former player, for all the worth of a "well he said it".  and the rest of it consists of the fact that he grew up from being a teenager.

good job everyone on staying level-headed and objective.  how about waiting until some actual real information comes out before busting your collective nuts.





So it's been reported that Biggio's "strength and conditioning guru" is one of the redacted names in the Grimsley search warrant affidavit?  If so that's a helluva lot more of a conversation piece than a off-the-cuff remark by Boomer Wells.  Like it or not, Biggio also wasn't on a pace to hit 80 homeruns a couple of weeks ago.

S.P. Rodriguez

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2006, 10:14:32 am »
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


good job everyone on staying level-headed and objective.  how about waiting until some actual real information comes out before busting your collective nuts.





Fuck level-headedness and being objective.  It's Pooholes.




I don't like the kid, but he's got a point.




While I agree with innocent until proven guilty, it's not looking good for one A. Pujols.  What surprises me is that no one has made any connection with LaGenius.  If this proves accurate, he's now associated with 2 of the biggest juicers in MLB history.  First McGwire (not to mention Canseco) and now Pujols.  How long until some of the dirt gets on Tony?  Me, I'm waiting for the Feds to finish this hunt because from all reports, they ain't fuckin' around.  Wear a wire?  WTF?
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2006, 10:51:19 am »
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


good job everyone on staying level-headed and objective.  how about waiting until some actual real information comes out before busting your collective nuts.





Fuck level-headedness and being objective.  It's Pooholes.




He hasn't been fingered, much less investigated.




I know I'd finger Pooholes.

Wait, that did not sound the way I wanted it to sound.




Co Russa would say it and mean it.
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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2006, 10:55:40 am »
Quote:

Quote:

it's amazing to me to watch the progression from not even being named in the affidavit to being drawn and quartered for doing HGH inside of an afternoon.

I seemingly remember a Biggio thread where those reporting rumors were lamblasted for lack of credible evidence.

In this case, the evidence presented, is a friend of someone that has neither been arrested, tried, nor convicted.  but simply been named by a former player, for all the worth of a "well he said it".  and the rest of it consists of the fact that he grew up from being a teenager.

good job everyone on staying level-headed and objective.  how about waiting until some actual real information comes out before busting your collective nuts.





So it's been reported that Biggio's "strength and conditioning guru" is one of the redacted names in the Grimsley search warrant affidavit?  If so that's a helluva lot more of a conversation piece than a off-the-cuff remark by Boomer Wells.  Like it or not, Biggio also wasn't on a pace to hit 80 homeruns a couple of weeks ago.





Weeellll . . . you are talking about something reported on an internet rumor mill about an accusation that might have been made by a drug informer under threat of a federal indictment.  Have fun bashing Pujols, but, well, it ain't over 'til it's over.
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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2006, 11:26:01 am »
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


good job everyone on staying level-headed and objective.  how about waiting until some actual real information comes out before busting your collective nuts.





Fuck level-headedness and being objective.  It's Pooholes.




He hasn't been fingered, much less investigated.




I know I'd finger Pooholes.

Wait, that did not sound the way I wanted it to sound.




Co Russa would say it and mean it.




Well done.
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tophfar

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2006, 12:53:56 pm »
Quote:

So it's been reported that Biggio's "strength and conditioning guru" is one of the redacted names in the Grimsley search warrant affidavit?  If so that's a helluva lot more of a conversation piece than a off-the-cuff remark by Boomer Wells.  Like it or not, Biggio also wasn't on a pace to hit 80 homeruns a couple of weeks ago.




Quote:

While I agree with innocent until proven guilty, it's not looking good for one A. Pujols.  What surprises me is that no one has made any connection with LaGenius.  If this proves accurate, he's now associated with 2 of the biggest juicers in MLB history.  First McGwire (not to mention Canseco) and now Pujols.  How long until some of the dirt gets on Tony?  Me, I'm waiting for the Feds to finish this hunt because from all reports, they ain't fuckin' around.  Wear a wire?  WTF?




Holy craptastic batman, now we're up to tertiary convictions?  Not just he's guilty because his friend might be guilty, but now THE MANAGER is guilty because his players friend MIGHT have been named in an affidavit.

And no it doesn't hold more weight than Boomer being an idiot.  It a leaked name, that hasn't even been officially confirmed.  Not a single person outside of Grimsley and the Feds ACTUALLY KNOW who is in the affidavit.  And just because they are named in the affidavit, doesnt even mean they ARE GUILTY YET.  

Correlation does not imply causality.  Coincidence isn't proof.  Association is not guilt.  

If your friend is a crack dealer does that make you a crack whore?  If your CEO friend is an embezziling sack of crap, does that make you an Enron exec?  

Or else  this article just might be the truth then?  But we all know its just a joke.  But it holds roughly the same amount of credible evidence so far as  this kind of bullshit.
Here are just a few of the key ingredients: dynamite, pole vaulting, laughing gas, choppers - can you see how incredible this is going to be?

NeilT

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2006, 12:56:05 pm »
I think they know that.  I think.
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astro pete

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2006, 01:08:01 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

So it's been reported that Biggio's "strength and conditioning guru" is one of the redacted names in the Grimsley search warrant affidavit?  If so that's a helluva lot more of a conversation piece than a off-the-cuff remark by Boomer Wells.  Like it or not, Biggio also wasn't on a pace to hit 80 homeruns a couple of weeks ago.




Quote:

While I agree with innocent until proven guilty, it's not looking good for one A. Pujols.  What surprises me is that no one has made any connection with LaGenius.  If this proves accurate, he's now associated with 2 of the biggest juicers in MLB history.  First McGwire (not to mention Canseco) and now Pujols.  How long until some of the dirt gets on Tony?  Me, I'm waiting for the Feds to finish this hunt because from all reports, they ain't fuckin' around.  Wear a wire?  WTF?




Holy craptastic batman, now we're up to tertiary convictions?  Not just he's guilty because his friend might be guilty, but now THE MANAGER is guilty because his players friend MIGHT have been named in an affidavit.

And no it doesn't hold more weight than Boomer being an idiot.  It a leaked name, that hasn't even been officially confirmed.  Not a single person outside of Grimsley and the Feds ACTUALLY KNOW who is in the affidavit.  And just because they are named in the affidavit, doesnt even mean they ARE GUILTY YET.  

Correlation does not imply causality.  Coincidence isn't proof.  Association is not guilt.  

If your friend is a crack dealer does that make you a crack whore?  If your CEO friend is an embezziling sack of crap, does that make you an Enron exec?  

Or else  this article just might be the truth then?  But we all know its just a joke.  But it holds roughly the same amount of credible evidence so far as  this kind of bullshit.





Relax.  Nobody is burning Pujols/LaRussa on a stake...yet.

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2006, 01:08:31 pm »
Quote:

He hasn't been fingered, much less investigated.




How do you know what he and LaRussa have been up to?

S.P. Rodriguez

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2006, 01:23:56 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

So it's been reported that Biggio's "strength and conditioning guru" is one of the redacted names in the Grimsley search warrant affidavit?  If so that's a helluva lot more of a conversation piece than a off-the-cuff remark by Boomer Wells.  Like it or not, Biggio also wasn't on a pace to hit 80 homeruns a couple of weeks ago.




Quote:

While I agree with innocent until proven guilty, it's not looking good for one A. Pujols.  What surprises me is that no one has made any connection with LaGenius.  If this proves accurate, he's now associated with 2 of the biggest juicers in MLB history.  First McGwire (not to mention Canseco) and now Pujols.  How long until some of the dirt gets on Tony?  Me, I'm waiting for the Feds to finish this hunt because from all reports, they ain't fuckin' around.  Wear a wire?  WTF?




Holy craptastic batman, now we're up to tertiary convictions?  Not just he's guilty because his friend might be guilty, but now THE MANAGER is guilty because his players friend MIGHT have been named in an affidavit.

And no it doesn't hold more weight than Boomer being an idiot.  It a leaked name, that hasn't even been officially confirmed.  Not a single person outside of Grimsley and the Feds ACTUALLY KNOW who is in the affidavit.  And just because they are named in the affidavit, doesnt even mean they ARE GUILTY YET.  

Correlation does not imply causality.  Coincidence isn't proof.  Association is not guilt.  

If your friend is a crack dealer does that make you a crack whore?  If your CEO friend is an embezziling sack of crap, does that make you an Enron exec?  

Or else  this article just might be the truth then?  But we all know its just a joke.  But it holds roughly the same amount of credible evidence so far as  this kind of bullshit.





Awfully defensive about a statement about coincidence and association.  Where do you get that I made any indictments of anyone?  I'm pretty sure I said I agree with innocent until proven guilty and I'm waiting until the Feds finish their investigation.

Beyond that, I noted some coincidences related to Tank Commander.  By no means did I say, "Yep, this proves their guilt."  All I said is this doesn't look good.  I'm not assuming guilt.  Just recognizing the reports reflect negatively on the parties involved and influence public opinion.  If you want to make more of that, go for it.  I'm not even saying it's influenced my opinion.  I'll believe Pujols is a juicer when he fails a test or is busted in possession of said substances.

Nice analogy by the way.  It's about as reasonable as your assumption that I'm confirming guilt based on "leaks" from an affidavit.  And that Asher article... whew, I rarely feel the desire to knock someone's head off with a blunt object but he just stirred some motivation.  That has to be the biggest pile of horse-shit I've ever read.  Can I blame you for that?

Sounds like you are a lawyer, or wannabe lawyer if not.  So let me ask you a question: If you know your friend is dealing crack or embezzling money and do nothing to report it, does that make you complicit in the illegal act?  What if you offer misleading statements to investigators to help prevent your friend from getting caught?  What if your friend is overly generous with their ill-gotten gains and with full knowledge of how gifts are paid for, you accept said gifts?  

Personally, I don't care.  You are the one associated with shit-bags.
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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2006, 02:50:13 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

it's amazing to me to watch the progression from not even being named in the affidavit to being drawn and quartered for doing HGH inside of an afternoon.

I seemingly remember a Biggio thread where those reporting rumors were lamblasted for lack of credible evidence.

In this case, the evidence presented, is a friend of someone that has neither been arrested, tried, nor convicted.  but simply been named by a former player, for all the worth of a "well he said it".  and the rest of it consists of the fact that he grew up from being a teenager.

good job everyone on staying level-headed and objective.  how about waiting until some actual real information comes out before busting your collective nuts.





So it's been reported that Biggio's "strength and conditioning guru" is one of the redacted names in the Grimsley search warrant affidavit?  If so that's a helluva lot more of a conversation piece than a off-the-cuff remark by Boomer Wells.  Like it or not, Biggio also wasn't on a pace to hit 80 homeruns a couple of weeks ago.




Weeellll . . . you are talking about something reported on an internet rumor mill about an accusation that might have been made by a drug informer under threat of a federal indictment.  Have fun bashing Pujols, but, well, it ain't over 'til it's over.





I heard Bob Nightengale yesterday (he is Baseball Weekly's national reporter, IIRC) say that several of the names that will emerge are upper echelon players who have not up until now been suspected of anything publicly.  He seemed to indicate some/many of the leaked names would be of pitchers, not just bulked-up DHs and the like.  He also said there is one name to come out for sure that is a big-time player, assumed enitrely outside of this up to now, and very popular with fans, generally.  He didn't say whether the player was a pitcher or fielder, and with that has apparently narrowed the public speculation down to, oh I don't know, about 150 guys.

With this kind of thing coming out daily, anyone sniveling about people jumping to conclusions is being a Pollyanna, at best.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is a nice bromide, but at least in day to day life and mass public opinion, no one but no one actually follows the tenet, and never has.  Its a silly and pointless admonition to level at anyone in this context.

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2006, 03:02:44 pm »
Quote:

I heard Bob Nightengale yesterday (he is Baseball Weekly's national reporter, IIRC) say that several of the names that will emerge are upper echelon players who have not up until now been suspected of anything publicly.  He seemed to indicate some/many of the leaked names would be of pitchers, not just bulked-up DHs and the like.  He also said there is one name to come out for sure that is a big-time player, assumed enitrely outside of this up to now, and very popular with fans, generally.  He didn't say whether the player was a pitcher or fielder, and with that has apparently narrowed the public speculation down to, oh I don't know, about 150 guys.




If he had the names, he'd disclose them - it's the scoop every reporter is looking for.

Nightengale is talking out of his ass.


Quote:

"Innocent until proven guilty" is a nice bromide, but at least in day to day life and mass public opinion, no one but no one actually follows the tenet, and never has.  Its a silly and pointless admonition to level at anyone in this context.




It's a legal (criminal) concept only, and it's bandied about far too much outside that context.
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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2006, 03:25:39 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

it's amazing to me to watch the progression from not even being named in the affidavit to being drawn and quartered for doing HGH inside of an afternoon.

I seemingly remember a Biggio thread where those reporting rumors were lamblasted for lack of credible evidence.

In this case, the evidence presented, is a friend of someone that has neither been arrested, tried, nor convicted.  but simply been named by a former player, for all the worth of a "well he said it".  and the rest of it consists of the fact that he grew up from being a teenager.

good job everyone on staying level-headed and objective.  how about waiting until some actual real information comes out before busting your collective nuts.





So it's been reported that Biggio's "strength and conditioning guru" is one of the redacted names in the Grimsley search warrant affidavit?  If so that's a helluva lot more of a conversation piece than a off-the-cuff remark by Boomer Wells.  Like it or not, Biggio also wasn't on a pace to hit 80 homeruns a couple of weeks ago.




Weeellll . . . you are talking about something reported on an internet rumor mill about an accusation that might have been made by a drug informer under threat of a federal indictment.  Have fun bashing Pujols, but, well, it ain't over 'til it's over.





I heard Bob Nightengale yesterday (he is Baseball Weekly's national reporter, IIRC) say that several of the names that will emerge are upper echelon players who have not up until now been suspected of anything publicly.  He seemed to indicate some/many of the leaked names would be of pitchers, not just bulked-up DHs and the like.  He also said there is one name to come out for sure that is a big-time player, assumed enitrely outside of this up to now, and very popular with fans, generally.  He didn't say whether the player was a pitcher or fielder, and with that has apparently narrowed the public speculation down to, oh I don't know, about 150 guys.

With this kind of thing coming out daily, anyone sniveling about people jumping to conclusions is being a Pollyanna, at best.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is a nice bromide, but at least in day to day life and mass public opinion, no one but no one actually follows the tenet, and never has.  Its a silly and pointless admonition to level at anyone in this context.




I don't believe it to be pointless.  In the Grimsley document there are 29 blacked out names.  29 is 29, it's not 150, or 750, it's not everybody.  Wild speculation (and Nightengale is one of the worst) gets the writer talked about.  Anyone who cares about facts will wait. Mass public opinion is mindless and viscious.

Phil_in_CS

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2006, 03:50:50 pm »

matadorph

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2006, 03:58:12 pm »
ah sweet schadenfreude.......

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2006, 04:25:09 pm »
He speaks of being fingered as well. Coincidence? I think not.
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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2006, 04:35:36 pm »
Blame it on a society where the belief that "You've done nothing wrong until you get caught" is common.  And this talk about men fingering one another is making me queasy.
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Phil_in_CS

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2006, 04:53:57 pm »
You see the comment by 'John'?

Quote:


...last week we were talking about how AP might break the HR and RBI record, now we are debating if he?s a doper AND he?s not even playing!!! The baseball gods are a fickle bunch, eh?





how true...

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2006, 04:59:45 pm »
Quote:

Blame it on a society where the belief that "You've done nothing wrong until you get caught" is common.  And this talk about men fingering one another is making me queasy.




Add "if you're not cheatin you're not tryin" and "2nd place is first loser".  Ah, we're in a pickle for sure.

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2006, 06:52:36 pm »
Quote:


Awfully defensive about a statement about coincidence and association.





I am neither defensive nor offensive about anything.  Just pointing out rumor mongering, off the cuff accusations and conclusion jumping obviously does not exist soley within the confines of "Mass Media" nor AstrosDaily.  So much for our "more intelligent fandom".

Quote:

Where do you get that I made any indictments of anyone?  I'm pretty sure I said I agree with innocent until proven guilty and I'm waiting until the Feds finish their investigation.

Beyond that, I noted some coincidences related to Tank Commander.  By no means did I say, "Yep, this proves their guilt."  All I said is this doesn't look good.  I'm not assuming guilt.  





Bullshit and revisionist.

"What surprises me is that no one has made any connection with LaGenius. ...  How long until some of the dirt gets on Tony?

What else was that supposed to mean?  You made a clear implication that LaRussa is guilty.  There is no way around this.  This was not "pointing out a coincidence".

Quote:

If you know your friend is dealing crack or embezzling money and do nothing to report it, does that make you complicit in the illegal act?  




No it entirely does not make you complicit in anything.  Just because you see someone speeding down the road does that make you complicit in their speeding?  

Quote:

What if you offer misleading statements to investigators to help prevent your friend from getting caught?  




Completely different question.  Aiding and abetting makes you an accessory.

It may turn out that Pujols is guilty.  It may turn out that LaRussa is the mastermind behind all the doping of the past 25 years.  But until there's the slightest bit of actual information to surpport such wild ass speculation, that's all it is.  And I will reserve judgement until then.

But to each his own.
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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2006, 07:25:47 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

He hasn't been fingered, much less investigated.




How do you know what he and LaRussa have been up to?





Of course, I don't. However, within the scope of this exaggerated kangaroo court, I think it'd be safe to say he hasn't been fingered or investigated. When was the raid? Had you heard of follow-up work by the IRS (and why are *they* involved? the money-laundering?) with anyone else, including Pujols? (LaRussa was introduced after my comment, so I'm not gonna expand out to him... that's just another branch of assumption and exaggeration, IMO).

I'm pretty much a "let's wait until the facts emerge" type. Not too big on rumor mills at all. Just wishing that stuff weren't flying off the handle so quickly here.
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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #36 on: June 09, 2006, 07:58:19 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

it's amazing to me to watch the progression from not even being named in the affidavit to being drawn and quartered for doing HGH inside of an afternoon.

I seemingly remember a Biggio thread where those reporting rumors were lamblasted for lack of credible evidence.

In this case, the evidence presented, is a friend of someone that has neither been arrested, tried, nor convicted.  but simply been named by a former player, for all the worth of a "well he said it".  and the rest of it consists of the fact that he grew up from being a teenager.

good job everyone on staying level-headed and objective.  how about waiting until some actual real information comes out before busting your collective nuts.





So it's been reported that Biggio's "strength and conditioning guru" is one of the redacted names in the Grimsley search warrant affidavit?  If so that's a helluva lot more of a conversation piece than a off-the-cuff remark by Boomer Wells.  Like it or not, Biggio also wasn't on a pace to hit 80 homeruns a couple of weeks ago.




Weeellll . . . you are talking about something reported on an internet rumor mill about an accusation that might have been made by a drug informer under threat of a federal indictment.  Have fun bashing Pujols, but, well, it ain't over 'til it's over.





I heard Bob Nightengale yesterday (he is Baseball Weekly's national reporter, IIRC) say that several of the names that will emerge are upper echelon players who have not up until now been suspected of anything publicly.  He seemed to indicate some/many of the leaked names would be of pitchers, not just bulked-up DHs and the like.  He also said there is one name to come out for sure that is a big-time player, assumed enitrely outside of this up to now, and very popular with fans, generally.  He didn't say whether the player was a pitcher or fielder, and with that has apparently narrowed the public speculation down to, oh I don't know, about 150 guys.

With this kind of thing coming out daily, anyone sniveling about people jumping to conclusions is being a Pollyanna, at best.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is a nice bromide, but at least in day to day life and mass public opinion, no one but no one actually follows the tenet, and never has.  Its a silly and pointless admonition to level at anyone in this context.




Weeellll . . . 'snot what I said.  Go ahead and speculate all you want. You're welcome to believe that pujols shot up human growth hormone extracted from LaRussa's testicles, and that Clemens and Carpenter were waiting there in line along with Jeter, Gagne, and Biggio.  Far as I'm concerned you're welcome to publish your conclusions here and elsewhere on the internet.  It's allright by me.  Some of it might even be true, though it might not ever be proved.  All I was saying was that right now what you've got is a self-serving confession by a guy under the threat of a federal indictment, and that's probably worth keeping in perspective.  I'm no prosecutor, but I suspect that if Juli was around she'd tell us that everywhere but Tulia, Texas, that's not nothing, but it's not much, either.
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rifraft

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #37 on: June 09, 2006, 08:19:57 pm »
Quote:

Weeellll . . . 'snot what I said.  Go ahead and speculate all you want. You're welcome to believe that pujols shot up human growth hormone extracted from LaRussa's testicles




you'd actually find it in his pituitary, not his testicles, at least as an extractable source.

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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #38 on: June 09, 2006, 10:33:55 pm »
Quote:


Quote:

"Innocent until proven guilty" is a nice bromide, but at least in day to day life and mass public opinion, no one but no one actually follows the tenet, and never has.  Its a silly and pointless admonition to level at anyone in this context.




It's a legal (criminal) concept only, and it's bandied about far too much outside that context.





Do you still beat your wife? It's a two way street. Accusation doesn't equal truth. As far as I'm concerned, guilt is poorly determined by the absence of facts. And I'm as jaded as they come. Either it's one of the most guarded conspiracies ever or it's isolated to a small minority.
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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2006, 01:03:35 am »
Quote:

But until there's the slightest bit of actual information to surpport such wild ass speculation, that's all it is.  And I will reserve judgement until then.

But to each his own.



Of course it's wild ass speculation.  Check out the color of the whoopass in that can.  We can't see past it; we don't want to see past it.

You can't sip this stuff.  It makes red and all other colors taste like wormwood.  Wormwood is the devil, and we want the devil not only to lose but to be utterly humiliated in the process.

That's true religion.  That's what we're sellin' here.
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Re: Steroid names starting to leak....
« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2006, 09:10:37 am »
Quote:

Quote:

Weeellll . . . 'snot what I said.  Go ahead and speculate all you want. You're welcome to believe that pujols shot up human growth hormone extracted from LaRussa's testicles




you'd actually find it in his pituitary, not his testicles, at least as an extractable source.





Mmmmmm . . . . pituitary.
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