Author Topic: Astros' lineup  (Read 4839 times)

jasonact

  • Should Have Quit 500 Posts Ago
  • Posts: 1469
    • View Profile
    • www.jasonmartinmft.com
Astros' lineup
« on: October 21, 2005, 04:18:41 pm »
Having never cared as much about a World Series as I care about this one, I've never had as much interest in the starting lineups as I do. Does anyone have a good idea when the managers will announce the starting lineups? Will they wait until tomorrow afternoon/evening? As far as I know, there aren't any injury questions on either team that would necessitate a "game time" decision, so why don't they go ahead and announce 1-9 for game 1?

If they have already done so, what are the lineups? I'm particularly interested in who the Astros' DH will be.
phew. for a minute there, I lost myself
- Radiohead

Bitter Bob

  • Disappointing Rookie
  • Posts: 56
    • View Profile
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2005, 05:08:03 pm »
I'm guessing they will announce the line ups when the managers give their line up cards to the umpire.

Unless you are some sort of hard core gambler what freaking difference does it make between now and then?

Do you bet on pre-season NFL games as well?

jasonact

  • Should Have Quit 500 Posts Ago
  • Posts: 1469
    • View Profile
    • www.jasonmartinmft.com
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2005, 05:15:30 pm »
Quote:

Unless you are some sort of hard core gambler what freaking difference does it make between now and then?




I never even buy a lottery ticket, muchless gamble on sports.

What do you mean what does it matter? I'm an impatient baseball fan. That's reason enough! I want to know how many innings Roger goes tomorrow. I want to know if I can sneak into the house of someone with HDTV to watch every game. I want to know who the next rising star in the Astros system is. I want to know who the Astros are going to acquire at next season's trading deadline. I want to know when I'll have enough money to buy the Astros myself. I want to know if I can build a life-sized replica of MMPUS on my grave.

I love the Astros. That's why it matters!
phew. for a minute there, I lost myself
- Radiohead

mihoba

  • Contributor
  • Pope
  • Posts: 6840
  • R.I.P. Mike. The boy inside you is now free.
    • View Profile
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2005, 05:49:12 pm »
Quote:

I'm particularly interested in who the Astros' DH will be.




I will be shocked if Jeffrey Robert Bagwell is not the 3rd hole hitter in the DH slot. Especially after reading that he was campaigning for the job, if you believe Starks.
"Baseball is simply a better game without the DH. "

jasonact

  • Should Have Quit 500 Posts Ago
  • Posts: 1469
    • View Profile
    • www.jasonmartinmft.com
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2005, 05:53:16 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

I'm particularly interested in who the Astros' DH will be.




I will be shocked if Jeffrey Robert Bagwell is not the 3rd hole hitter in the DH slot. Especially after reading that he was campaigning for the job, if you believe Starks.





I completely agree, although I think he might be better in the #6 or 7 hole. (I know this has been discussed already.)
phew. for a minute there, I lost myself
- Radiohead

JimR

  • Contributor
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 29345
    • View Profile
    • McGinnis, Lochridge & Kilgore, LLP
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2005, 05:54:39 pm »
i cannot believe he will be batting 3rd. that is nonsensical. 6 or 7 is good.
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

Trey

  • Should Have Quit 500 Posts Ago
  • Posts: 1249
    • View Profile
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2005, 05:54:39 pm »
Quote:

I want to know if I can build a life-sized replica of MMPUS on my grave.

I love the Astros. That's why it matters!





Apparently, you love the Astros as much as Jimmy Hoffa loved the New York Football Giants.
Let me explain something to you. Um, I am not "Mr. Lebowski". You're Mr. Lebowski. I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.

Nate in IA

  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 4279
  • To the stars...
    • View Profile
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2005, 05:59:19 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

I'm particularly interested in who the Astros' DH will be.




I will be shocked if Jeffrey Robert Bagwell is not the 3rd hole hitter in the DH slot. Especially after reading that he was campaigning for the job, if you believe Starks.





Well I'll believe Jeffrey himself as he said as much in the post game celebration to the Fox ninny asking him questions.

He'll DH, no doubt about it in my opinion.

jasonact

  • Should Have Quit 500 Posts Ago
  • Posts: 1469
    • View Profile
    • www.jasonmartinmft.com
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2005, 06:01:33 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

I want to know if I can build a life-sized replica of MMPUS on my grave.

I love the Astros. That's why it matters!





Apparently, you love the Astros as much as Jimmy Hoffa loved the New York Football Giants.





That might be.
phew. for a minute there, I lost myself
- Radiohead

mihoba

  • Contributor
  • Pope
  • Posts: 6840
  • R.I.P. Mike. The boy inside you is now free.
    • View Profile
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2005, 06:05:43 pm »
Quote:

i cannot believe he will be batting 3rd. that is nonsensical. 6 or 7 is good.




Is it? In my brick colored glasses, he is still one of the best on-base men in the lineup, with 'hopefully' some pop. Of course, I do not have the access to observe closely, so I'm sure Garner will do what's best for the club.
"Baseball is simply a better game without the DH. "

JimR

  • Contributor
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 29345
    • View Profile
    • McGinnis, Lochridge & Kilgore, LLP
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2005, 06:10:08 pm »
he is not a #3 hitter any more, imo. i think 6 is about right, but 7 is maybe better.

if he is playing, i would have:

Biggio
Taveras
Berkman
Ensberg
Lamb
Lane
Bagwell
Ausmus
Everett

switching Lane and Bagwell would work also.
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

astro pete

  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 2620
    • View Profile
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2005, 06:11:41 pm »
Quote:


Well I'll believe Jeffrey himself as he said as much in the post game celebration to the Fox ninny asking him questions.

He'll DH, no doubt about it in my opinion.





Well, Purpura said he'd DH in the World Series after the NLDS.  He ain't hitting third, though.

Trey

  • Should Have Quit 500 Posts Ago
  • Posts: 1249
    • View Profile
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2005, 06:11:54 pm »
Quote:

he is not a #3 hitter any more, imo. i think 6 is about right, but 7 is maybe better.

if he is playing, i would have:

Biggio
Taveras
Berkman
Ensberg
Lamb
Lane
Bagwell
Ausmus
Everett

switching Lane and Bagwell would work also.





Am I crazy for thinking he would be a great #2 hitter?  It doesn't work well for this lineup, because you end up with Burke/Taveras/Ausmus/Everett in some order at the bottom, but I think he'd be great hitting in front of Berkman with a chance to drive in Bidge after a double.
Let me explain something to you. Um, I am not "Mr. Lebowski". You're Mr. Lebowski. I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.

JimR

  • Contributor
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 29345
    • View Profile
    • McGinnis, Lochridge & Kilgore, LLP
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2005, 06:12:36 pm »
6 or 7
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

UpTooLate

  • Should Have Quit 500 Posts Ago
  • Posts: 1089
    • View Profile
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2005, 06:33:04 pm »
I will probably catch heat for saying this.  Does Bagwell in the DH give the team the best chance to win?  Honest question.  How about Burke in the 7 hole with Lamb or Berkman at DH.  Reserve Bagwell for a clutch pinch hit situation where you need to advance a runner.  Bagwell is not a power threat right now, but he has shown the ability to get clutch hits.

I am a Bagwell fan and I realize that the team, fans and city owe him a lot.  I am glad that he is on the roster.  I would just not be surprised if Gar does not use him as DH.
"Go with Christ" - Eric "The Dawg" Cartman

JimR

  • Contributor
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 29345
    • View Profile
    • McGinnis, Lochridge & Kilgore, LLP
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2005, 06:45:18 pm »
i agree with your point and am not sure because i have not seen him take BP. i trust Garner to do what is best regardless of sentiment.
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

mihoba

  • Contributor
  • Pope
  • Posts: 6840
  • R.I.P. Mike. The boy inside you is now free.
    • View Profile
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2005, 06:47:10 pm »
Quote:

Bagwell is not a power threat right now




Just curious, how do you know this? Is it from his lack of playing time? Is it because Garner was quoted as saying he will use Bags when they need a base hit, not a home run?

I ask because in the rare swings I have seen lately, he looks damn good to me, with that strong uppercut swing and lots of top spin on the ball. I wish I could have watched batting practice during the playoffs.
"Baseball is simply a better game without the DH. "

JimR

  • Contributor
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 29345
    • View Profile
    • McGinnis, Lochridge & Kilgore, LLP
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2005, 06:49:32 pm »
i have not seen him take BP but a friend of mine has during the Braves series. he said no power at all but lots of line drives.
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

mihoba

  • Contributor
  • Pope
  • Posts: 6840
  • R.I.P. Mike. The boy inside you is now free.
    • View Profile
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2005, 06:53:05 pm »
If that's the case, then I agree he should be lower in the order.
"Baseball is simply a better game without the DH. "

UpTooLate

  • Should Have Quit 500 Posts Ago
  • Posts: 1089
    • View Profile
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2005, 06:58:05 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

Bagwell is not a power threat right now




Just curious, how do you know this? Is it from his lack of playing time? Is it because Garner was quoted as saying he will use Bags when they need a base hit, not a home run?

I ask because in the rare swings I have seen lately, he looks damn good to me, with that strong uppercut swing and lots of top spin on the ball. I wish I could have watched batting practice during the playoffs.





I form that opinion based on him coming off a major surgery and my observation of several of his AB's.  I also factor in "let's wait and see" comments from Garner.  He is getting good swings, but is not crushing the ball like the Bagwell of previous seasons.
"Go with Christ" - Eric "The Dawg" Cartman

homer

  • Pope
  • Posts: 6509
    • View Profile
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2005, 09:45:19 pm »
Quote:

i have not seen him take BP but a friend of mine has during the Braves series. he said no power at all but lots of line drives.




I saw him last Monday. He is hitting/driving the ball the other way, but I don't remember him hitting one out of the park. He hit some weak line drives to left.
Oye. Vamos, vamos.

CJM

  • Veteran Role Player
  • Posts: 339
    • View Profile
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2005, 10:28:36 pm »
There was a quote the other day (at astros.com I think) that said he hit 5 in a row out in BP.  Take that with a grain of salt since it didn't say where they went out (could have been flyballs to the Crawford Boxes).  If they were line drives to the LF power alley, CF, or the other way, that would be a good sign.

homer

  • Pope
  • Posts: 6509
    • View Profile
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2005, 10:35:27 pm »
I won't dispute it, it could have been his day to practice going the other way. I just remember that he wasn't hitting the ball hard at all.
Oye. Vamos, vamos.

astrox

  • Prime Time Player
  • Posts: 734
  • Evan's Guitar
    • View Profile
    • tinyeblog.blogspot.com
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2005, 10:52:03 pm »
They will most certainly have Bagwell DHing, otherwise, why even have him on the roster?  Talk about sentimental reasons and all that till the cows come home, but the fact remains that if they don't plan on using him at all, they've already let sentimentality skew their decision making process.

So, to me, the very fact that he is on the roster says that they believe in his ability to contribute in a more than just pinch hit situation.  But what the hell do I know!
News that is sufficiently bad somehow carries its own guarantee of truth.  Only good reports need confirmation.

Limey

  • Contributor
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 32079
  • Tally Ho!
    • View Profile
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2005, 11:22:38 pm »
Quote:

They will most certainly have Bagwell DHing, otherwise, why even have him on the roster?  Talk about sentimental reasons and all that till the cows come home, but the fact remains that if they don't plan on using him at all, they've already let sentimentality skew their decision making process.

So, to me, the very fact that he is on the roster says that they believe in his ability to contribute in a more than just pinch hit situation.  But what the hell do I know!




A lot has been made of the Bagwell vs. Lamb debate as a DH.  This is a fallacy, IMHO, because Lamb can play 1B while Baggy hits for the pitcher.  It's really a question of defense, i.e. do you want Burke rather than Berkman in LF and Berkman rather than Lamb at 1B.

Garner seemed happy to go with Lamb at 1st, and he's made some nice plays there.  One could argue that Lamb is more solid at 1B than Berkman!  Anyway, I think that Lamb plays 1st, Berkman is in left, Baggy DHs and it's a toss-up between Burke or Taveras in CF.
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

Bench

  • Illuminati
  • Posts: 16476
    • View Profile
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2005, 11:27:53 pm »
Quote:

A lot has been made of the Bagwell vs. Lamb debate as a DH.  This is a fallacy, IMHO, because Lamb can play 1B while Baggy hits for the pitcher.  It's really a question of defense, i.e. do you want Burke rather than Berkman in LF and Berkman rather than Lamb at 1B.

Garner seemed happy to go with Lamb at 1st, and he's made some nice plays there.  One could argue that Lamb is more solid at 1B than Berkman!  Anyway, I think that Lamb plays 1st, Berkman is in left, Baggy DHs and it's a toss-up between Burke or Taveras in CF.





You're right. It's Lamb v. Burke or Taveras, and Burke or Taveras v. Bagwell. Obviously, there're more permutations to that, but I'm that lazy. The Burke or Taveras v. the Burke  and Taveras should dominate the discussion.
"Holy shit, Mozart. Get me off this fucking thing."

Limey

  • Contributor
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 32079
  • Tally Ho!
    • View Profile
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2005, 11:30:57 pm »
Quote:

You're right. It's Lamb v. Burke or Taveras, and Burke or Taveras v. Bagwell. Obviously, there're more permutations to that, but I'm that lazy. The Burke or Taveras v. the Burke  and Taveras should dominate the discussion.



And as I think that Burke and Taveras is a little silly when it excludes Bagwell or Lamb...
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

Bench

  • Illuminati
  • Posts: 16476
    • View Profile
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2005, 11:41:49 pm »
Quote:


And as I think that Burke and Taveras is a little silly when it excludes Bagwell or Lamb...





Eggzactly.
"Holy shit, Mozart. Get me off this fucking thing."

UpTooLate

  • Should Have Quit 500 Posts Ago
  • Posts: 1089
    • View Profile
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2005, 11:42:52 pm »
Quote:

but the fact remains that if they don't plan on using him at all, they've already let sentimentality skew their decision making process.





Bagwell should be available for pinch hitting duties at the least.  I personally would feel confident if he steps to the plate to pinch hit.  He has shown since the surgery that he can get some hits and you know he will be smart in running the bases when said hits occur.

Since the DH will get four or so AB's, I would hope that one of our best power hitters would be used.  My question was to basically ask if Bagwell is that person right now.  If he is not, then the decision is sentimental, and IMHO would be a sucky decision for a lot of reasons.

I am not bashing Bagwell.  He has earned his spot.  He can (and probably will) contribute to this series.  If he IS ready and the BEST option, bring him on.
"Go with Christ" - Eric "The Dawg" Cartman

Bench

  • Illuminati
  • Posts: 16476
    • View Profile
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2005, 11:45:21 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

but the fact remains that if they don't plan on using him at all, they've already let sentimentality skew their decision making process.





Bagwell should be available for pinch hitting duties at the least.  I personally would feel confident if he steps to the plate to pinch hit.  He has shown since the surgery that he can get some hits and you know he will be smart in running the bases when said hits occur.

Since the DH will get four or so AB's, I would hope that one of our best power hitters would be used.  My question was to basically ask if Bagwell is that person right now.  If he is not, then the decision is sentimental, and IMHO would be a sucky decision for a lot of reasons.

I am not bashing Bagwell.  He has earned his spot.  He can (and probably will) contribute to this series.  If he IS ready and the BEST option, bring him on.





I highly doubt Garner's decision will be clouded by sentimentality. He knows what Bags can do, and he knows what Lamb can do.

I think Lamb in game 1, and Bags in game 2 is the likely outcome. They'll be hitting in different spots in the lineup, as well.

Likewise, Burke and Taveras in both games, and Berkman at first.
"Holy shit, Mozart. Get me off this fucking thing."

EasTexAstro

  • Pope
  • Posts: 5748
    • View Profile
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2005, 11:52:58 pm »
I wonder how much Burke's defense in LF will weigh on Garner's thoughts.

Sentimental thoughts are great, but Scrap has pulled Biggio out for defense already.

If Bagwell doesn't have his power back, but can still get on base at a .400 clip? I don't see how that wouldn't be valuable. As was said before, it changes how the batters around him are pitched, too. The Astros need runners as well as guys to drive them in. Bagwell doesn't play any part of the game stupid.
It's my estimation that every man ever got a statue made of 'em was one kinda sombitch or another.

Danimal

  • Disappointing Rookie
  • Posts: 38
    • View Profile
Re: Astros' lineup
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2005, 12:43:11 am »
I like Bagwell hitting 2, but the question remains: in a sacrifice situation, whens the last time Baggy has laid one down? Then again, is his feel for the game/talent level so great that it wouldnt even be an issue? Line drives, walks, a little protection in front of Lance, #2 seems good in theory. I guess it comes down to which one you think will be greater than the other, his ability to drive in runs or his ability to get on base...
Postgame show brought to you by.... christ, I can't find it... hell with it!