Why not Bagwell?

[bubba]

Why didn't Bagwell pinch hit in the ninth?  That was the perfect opportunity to use him.  If you included him on the roster for anything, it would be that sort of situation, then they bring Vizcaino up.  It seems that you would want to play your best hand in that situation.  Any thoughts?

[jaklewein]

I said the same thing when Ausmus came to the plate with 2 outs in the 9th, in game 4 against the Braves.

[bubba]

But Ausmus is your catcher, your scheduled batter.  Viz was a pinch hitter.  You're replacing a pitcher not a catcher when you pinch hit here.  In addition to the intangibles a Bagwell at bat could have brought to the game, Bagwell is the obvious choice if the team needs to drive in a run in the ninth inning.

[HudsonHawk]

Quote:
Why didn't Bagwell pinch hit in the ninth?  That was the perfect opportunity to use him.  If you included him on the roster for anything, it would be that sort of situation, then they bring Vizcaino up.  It seems that you would want to play your best hand in that situation.  Any thoughts?

Viz has hit Izzy well over the years.  I'm assuming that was Garner's strategy.  I didn't hear any post-game stuff where he might have explained it though.  But I was also surprised it wasn't Bagwell.

[pravata]

Quote:

Quote:
Why didn't Bagwell pinch hit in the ninth?  That was the perfect opportunity to use him.  If you included him on the roster for anything, it would be that sort of situation, then they bring Vizcaino up.  It seems that you would want to play your best hand in that situation.  Any thoughts?

Viz has hit Izzy well over the years.  I'm assuming that was Garner's strategy.  I didn't hear any post-game stuff where he might have explained it though.  But I was also surprised it wasn't Bagwell.

Purpura nor Garner explained this.  Viz has hit Isringhausen, so has Bagwell, but as John Granato noted, this is not the same Bagwell.  Bagwell is Viz but from the right side.

[astro pete]

Quote:

Purpura nor Garner explained this.  Viz has hit Isringhausen, so has Bagwell, but as John Granato noted, this is not the same Bagwell.  Bagwell is Viz but from the right side.

I agree.  Garner was probably hoping he could get Viz and Biggio on base, then bring in Bagwell to hit a single to right to bring in the tying/go-ahead run.  A homerun from Bagwell (away from MMPUS) is likely a delusion, I'm afraid.

[cc]

Exactly.  Saving Bags to bat for Taveras, prolly, to drive in a run from 2nd or 3rd to tie or take the lead.  He's a tested, veteran singles hitter right now.

[astro pete]

Quote:
Exactly.  Saving Bags to bat for Taveras, prolly, to drive in a run from 2nd or 3rd to tie or take the lead.  He's a tested, veteran singles hitter right now.

Get out of my head.

[jaklewein]

Quote:

Quote:

Purpura nor Garner explained this.  Viz has hit Isringhausen, so has Bagwell, but as John Granato noted, this is not the same Bagwell.  Bagwell is Viz but from the right side.

I agree.  Garner was probably hoping he could get Viz and Biggio on base, then bring in Bagwell to hit a single to right to bring in the tying/go-ahead run.  A homerun from Bagwell (away from MMPUS) is likely a delusion, I'm afraid.

Really?  I remember Bags hitting a long fly ball out to Burnitz in right at Wrigley in the last series of the year to end one of the games (can't remember which one).  I remember thinking, "Wow, I didn't know he had that much pop."  Not saying he could hit one out to RF in Busch, or anywhere else, but if he pulled the ball....

[pravata]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Purpura nor Garner explained this.  Viz has hit Isringhausen, so has Bagwell, but as John Granato noted, this is not the same Bagwell.  Bagwell is Viz but from the right side.

I agree.  Garner was probably hoping he could get Viz and Biggio on base, then bring in Bagwell to hit a single to right to bring in the tying/go-ahead run.  A homerun from Bagwell (away from MMPUS) is likely a delusion, I'm afraid.

Really?  I remember Bags hitting a long fly ball out to Burnitz in right at Wrigley in the last series of the year to end one of the games (can't remember which one).  I remember thinking, "Wow, I didn't know he had that much pop."  Not saying he could hit one out to RF in Busch, or anywhere else, but if he pulled the ball....

The fact that you consider Bags hitting a flyball worth remarking, should indicate where he is right now.

[JackAstro]

I was hoping for Bagwell, too, but mostly for sentimental reasons. What I really would have liked was having Scott available for that at-bat. I'm not questioning the move of adding Zeke to the roster at all, I was just bummed when Viz came to the plate and I remembered that we were one power lefty bat short of what we had in the NLDS. I figure it'll sort itself out later in the series when Zeke tosses a couple of brilliant emergency relief innings.

[JackAstro]

And let me amend that to say that Zeke was obviously rock-solid last night, and what I really mean to say is "why can't we have both"? After all we as fans have been through, I don't think a 26 man roster is too much to ask.

[johnstros]

Scott is a lefthander but also he has zero postseason experience.  

maybe his foul ball got us believing he can do something great, or his one at bat against farnsworth.  

I don't think it is fair to say that if we had scott it would change things.  if viz came through last night, none of us would be saying a thing.  He has done well before in pressure situations.  He had a few big hits in games this season as a PH.  I wasn't expecting a homerun.  It is an unforunate day when we as fans expect things to go out with a bang so that we can get more media coverage or noteriety.    Viz's job as to get on base so that Bij can be the hero.  The PH is supposed to be aggressive.  I do not fault Viz for that either.      

Garner so far has done well, the moves or non moves have clicked.  On paper, things might seem a certain way, but i think one thing about garner that is great is that he doesn't always play by the paper.

[Billy Zabka]

 

Quote:
I said the same thing when Ausmus came to the plate with 2 outs in the 9th, in game 4 against the Braves.  

I said that too.  I also thought they shouldn't put Burke in the game.  I guess MLB manager is not on the list of possible future careers for me.

I think Bags in a home game provides a huge emotional lift.  The people my age (24) have grown up watching him hit it out.  I want him pinch hitting in every home game.

[HudsonHawk]

Quote:
The people my age (24) have grown up watching him hit it out.  I want him pinch hitting in every home game.

I grew up watching Hank Aaron hit them out.  I don't want him pinch hitting with the game on the line nowadays though.

[Andyzipp]

It's also a 7 game series. Being down 1-0 isn't a death knell.

The Astros didn't roll over, and a couple of things work out differently, we score more than 5 runs.

How they react tonight will tell a lot more about the rest of the series.

[Kevin]

Quote:
Being down 1-0 isn't a death knell.

Agreed. 2-0 might be though.

Quote:
How they react tonight will tell a lot more about the rest of the series.

Tonight is huge.

[Andyzipp]

Quote:
Tonight is huge.

Thanks Tiny E.

[Limey]

Quote:
The Astros didn't roll over, and a couple of things work out differently, we score more than 5 runs.

Berkman's DP had me out of my seat when he hit it.  He has (rightly) received some criticism for his lack of patience, but he nailed that one.  If it misses Eyetest, that's 2 runs home and 1st & 3rd, 1 out for Ensberg.

This was another game of inches, except that every single inch was shoved up the Astros' backside.

[Jacksonian]

Quote:

Quote:
The Astros didn't roll over, and a couple of things work out differently, we score more than 5 runs.

Berkman's DP had me out of my seat when he hit it.  He has (rightly) received some criticism for his lack of patience, but he nailed that one.  If it misses Eyetest, that's 2 runs home and 1st & 3rd, 1 out for Ensberg.

This was another game of inches, except that every single inch was shoved up the Astros' backside.

If his bat is 1/2 an inch lower on the ball it's a GS.

Lidge this pissing and moaning.  Here's to Roy coming out with his best stuff tonight!

[jasonact]

Quote:
It's also a 7 game series. Being down 1-0 isn't a death knell.

The Astros didn't roll over, and a couple of things work out differently, we score more than 5 runs.

How they react tonight will tell a lot more about the rest of the series.

Absolutely. The Astros didn't do much to make a case for winning the game, but they were in it for much of the game. I said this before, and I'll say it again. The Cardinals look tired, and they aren't exactly playing unbeatable baseball (except for Reggie Sanders; what's gotten into that guy?). Carpenter was not sharp, but the Astros helped him out when he needed it, and Izzy was Izzy (i.e. hitable). While I was disappointed that the Astros didn't pull it out last night, I was encouraged that the Cardinals looked very beatable, and they shouldn't run away with this thing.

[JackAstro]

Quote:
Scott is a lefthander but also he has zero postseason experience.  

maybe his foul ball got us believing he can do something great, or his one at bat against farnsworth.  

I don't think it is fair to say that if we had scott it would change things.  if viz came through last night, none of us would be saying a thing.  He has done well before in pressure situations.  He had a few big hits in games this season as a PH.  I wasn't expecting a homerun.  It is an unforunate day when we as fans expect things to go out with a bang so that we can get more media coverage or noteriety.    Viz's job as to get on base so that Bij can be the hero.  The PH is supposed to be aggressive.  I do not fault Viz for that either.      

Garner so far has done well, the moves or non moves have clicked.  On paper, things might seem a certain way, but i think one thing about garner that is great is that he doesn't always play by the paper.

Unless you're talking about something else, I probably didn't make my point clear, which has a lot to do with how little caffeine I had consumed at that time.

It's not a knock on Viz, but it's fair to say that Scott possesses a touch more pop in his bat. With the team down by two with two outs and one on in the 9th, I was just noting that it was unfortunate that Scott wasn't around because he fit the situation well. Viz hitting there is a fine and decent thing, especially given the actual roster. Zeke being on the roster is a fine and decent thing, as well. Management's doing a bang-up job. Garner for president. Et cetera.

[jasonact]

Quote:
It's not a knock on Viz, but it's fair to say that Scott possesses a touch more pop in his bat. With the team down by two with two outs and one on in the 9th, I was just noting that it was unfortunate that Scott wasn't around because he fit the situation well.

In that situation, you don't need pop. You need a base hit. Viz (or possibly Bagwell) gives you your best chance for a hit, certainly over Scott.

[astro pete]

If Scott were on the roster, he probably hits in the ninth.  Oh well.

[jaklewein]

Quote:

Quote:
It's not a knock on Viz, but it's fair to say that Scott possesses a touch more pop in his bat. With the team down by two with two outs and one on in the 9th, I was just noting that it was unfortunate that Scott wasn't around because he fit the situation well.

In that situation, you don't need pop. You need a base hit. Viz (or possibly Bagwell) gives you your best chance for a hit, certainly over Scott.

IIRC, the tying run was at the plate, how can you say that you don't need pop at the plate at a time like that?  IMHO, if you have the ability to send a guy to the plate that can tie it with one swing of the bat then you do it...if you don't, then you can't.  From what I've read today Bags hasn't anymore power than Viz...so Garner went with what he thought was his best hitter in that situation.  Again, IMHO, if Scott's on the team, then he's the PH instead of Viz.

[JimR]

Bagwell has no pop. why do you think he can hit it out? have you watched his ABs or does he come up on your 6th beer?

[astro pete]

In this NLCS, whenever Lamb starts, the Astros will not have any power on the bench (Chris Burke notwithstanding), especially at Busch.   As a result, we couldn't play for the long ball last night in the ninth.  We were going to have to string hits together.  

Our bench should be fully loaded tonight, however.

[jasonact]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
It's not a knock on Viz, but it's fair to say that Scott possesses a touch more pop in his bat. With the team down by two with two outs and one on in the 9th, I was just noting that it was unfortunate that Scott wasn't around because he fit the situation well.

In that situation, you don't need pop. You need a base hit. Viz (or possibly Bagwell) gives you your best chance for a hit, certainly over Scott.

IIRC, the tying run was at the plate, how can you say that you don't need pop at the plate at a time like that?  IMHO, if you have the ability to send a guy to the plate that can tie it with one swing of the bat then you do it...if you don't, then you can't.  From what I've read today Bags hasn't anymore power than Viz...so Garner went with what he thought was his best hitter in that situation.  Again, IMHO, if Scott's on the team, then he's the PH instead of Viz.

Scott may give you a better shot at a HR, but in my opinion, he also gives you a MUCH better shot of making an out, which you can't afford if you want to win the game. You NEED a hit or a walk or the game is over. A HR would be great, but not entirely necessary. Besides, the next batter was Biggio, and he probably gives you a better chance than Scott of hitting one out.

IMHO, I would like to have seen Bagwell up there instead of Viz, but I can't say Viz was a bad choice. I would not have liked to have seen Scott up there because he has a much better chance of ending the game than Viz or Bagwell.

[jaklewein]

Quote:
Bagwell has no pop. why do you think he can hit it out? have you watched his ABs or does he come up on your 6th beer?

Jim, with all due respect, I just said that Bagwell has no more pop than Viz.  If you're saying he has less pop then that's fine too, I wasn't discussing whether or not Bags had any pop...I'd already taken somebody else's word for it from earlier in the day that he didn't.  The discussion was about Scott and whether he'd of batted in place of Viz if he was on the roster.  How about commenting on that.  By the way...believe it or not...I didn't drink one beer last night.  I know, astounding.

[pravata]

Quote:

Quote:
Bagwell has no pop. why do you think he can hit it out? have you watched his ABs or does he come up on your 6th beer?

Jim, with all due respect, I just said that Bagwell has no more pop than Viz.  If you're saying he has less pop then that's fine too, I wasn't discussing whether or not Bags had any pop...I'd already taken somebody else's word for it from earlier in the day that he didn't.  The discussion was about Scott and whether he'd of batted in place of Viz if he was on the roster.  How about commenting on that.  By the way...believe it or not...I didn't drink one beer last night.  I know, astounding.

He's not on the roster for the legitimate reason that in a 7 game series against the Cardinals there is likely the need for more pitching.  Spin this quibble into whether they should have carried Scott instead of another position player, such as maybe Vizcaino (not wise because you restrict your infielders) and you're just burrowing into a rat hole.

[juliogotay]

Dierker suggested Bagwell was saved because first base was open and they wouldn't have pitched to him.

BTW, Fox SW carries a post-game show with the press conferences and Greg Lucas interviewing our guys immediately following these games. Dierker is sitting in this week.

[JimR]

i think Bagwell will be saved for the AB where a flyball or a line drive will affect the game.

[astro pete]

Quote:
Dierker suggested Bagwell was saved because first base was open and they wouldn't have pitched to him.

If that were true then you certainly let Bagwell hit.  Walk a guy with a bum shoulder and little power to get the go-ahead run to the plate in the form of Craig Biggio (and his 26 home runs).  I don't think that was the thinking, however.

[Limey]

Quote:
Bagwell has no pop. why do you think he can hit it out? have you watched his ABs or does he come up on your 6th beer?

Bagwell is a mind-fuck as Curly(?) stated.  Plus he can take a walk.  Viz might get a hit, but gets no respect.

I agree with (can't remember) that Gar was likely saving Baggy to PH for Taveras.  It's a gut-call whether you prefer Baggy-Bidge-Viz of Viz-Bidge-Baggy.

Only the most disconnected of fans would expect Bagwell to be a home run threat.

[johnstros]

yes the likely need for pitching is what happened with Backe, the astros absolutely cannot afford to let the game go 5-0 after 2 innings and then a) leave him in or b) let the bullpen go for the rest of the day.  also the fact that clemens, who knows hundred percent about hamstring as well as andy, possibly back in the minds of everybody is his elbow, and to have two guys who can get you long relief effort is at a premium for us.  The only person who is trustworthy with finishing out the game would be oswalt.  

IMHO, it isn't the idea that we played an 18 inning game, but the idea that our bullpen will be sucked dry and we have nothing left that dictated the situation for astacio...  That is why sanders getting hot at this moment was a bad situation for us.  if he was cold as ice, probably Scott might be on the roster...

[jaklewein]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
Bagwell has no pop. why do you think he can hit it out? have you watched his ABs or does he come up on your 6th beer?

Jim, with all due respect, I just said that Bagwell has no more pop than Viz.  If you're saying he has less pop then that's fine too, I wasn't discussing whether or not Bags had any pop...I'd already taken somebody else's word for it from earlier in the day that he didn't.  The discussion was about Scott and whether he'd of batted in place of Viz if he was on the roster.  How about commenting on that.  By the way...believe it or not...I didn't drink one beer last night.  I know, astounding.

He's not on the roster for the legitimate reason that in a 7 game series against the Cardinals there is likely the need for more pitching.  Spin this quibble into whether they should have carried Scott instead of another position player, such as maybe Vizcaino (not wise because you restrict your infielders) and you're just burrowing into a rat hole.

Yes, I agree...wasn't argueing for Scott's place on the roster.  An earlier poster said even if Scott was on the roster that he'd of rather seen Viz at the plate...playing for a better chance at a single and keeping the inning alive....rather than going for the all or nothing homerun threat of Scott.  I was just saying that I'd of taken my chances with Scott and his ability to tie the game with one swing of the bat.