2019 Trade Deadline Talk

[TerryPuhl21]

I don’t have a subscription to The Athletic yet, but this morning Jim Bowden went over some potential trades for AL contenders that he wrote in an article. One proposal discussed at length involved the Twins sending Graterol and Gordon to the Giants for Bumgarner and Smith. Graterol is the Twins’ number one pitching prospect and Gordon is a highly thought of middle infielder ranked 10th in their system. The trade would solve two issues with the Twins and would be a big move by them.

The proposal got me to thinking about the Astros. I think Houston could use another starter and a solid left handed out of the pen like the Giants’ Smith. San Francisco is apparently wanting outfield help. Would you do a trade to acquire Bumgarner and Smith for Tucker and Bukauskas? Tucker and James? Tucker and Martin?

Just curious to see what the board thinks.


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[Fredia]

the need for another starter is obvious.. how the astros arrivethere is the question

[JimR]

Not trading James. Martin or Bukakas? Madbum is a rental. Tucker for a rental is not attractive.

I want Luhnow to see if Scherzer is available, but that is a big contract.

[geezerdonk]

If Washington would pick up all of this year's contract, he would be owed $84MM for two years. Some of that is deferred through 2028. Would signing him put Springer and Correa out of reach?   

[JimR]

If Washington would pick up all of this year's contract, he would be owed $84MM for two years. Some of that is deferred through 2028. Would signing him put Springer and Correa out of reach?   

Probably. Pipe dream.

[geezerdonk]

That brings us back to Stroman. As I understand it, there are two more years of club control. Toronto has been a good trading partner lately. Are they ready to send him on? Would it take Tucker to get him? Could Strom improve his control?

[MusicMan]

That brings us back to Stroman. As I understand it, there are two more years of club control. Toronto has been a good trading partner lately. Are they ready to send him on? Would it take Tucker to get him? Could Strom improve his control?

I know there's a lot of chatter about Stroman, but he seems to be a sinker-heavy pitcher - exactly the opposite of what the Astros seem to emphasize.

[TerryPuhl21]

Don’t get me wrong, I’d like to have Stroman. Of the reasonable choices (I don’t see Scherzer as available) out there TODAY, he’s my number two choice. For me, it is Madbum or bust. I think he would fit in wonderfully between Verlander and Cole and I’ll bet Strom can get even more out of him.


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[doyce7]

I know there's a lot of chatter about Stroman, but he seems to be a sinker-heavy pitcher - exactly the opposite of what the Astros seem to emphasize.

Cole was a sinker heavy guy in Pittsburgh, just sayin.

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[juliogotay]

Astros were in on Encarnacion according to this reporter. https://twitter.com/feinsand/status/1140432617856294913

[JimR]

Astros were in on Encarnacion according to this reporter. https://twitter.com/feinsand/status/1140432617856294913

Curious about this.

[jbm]

Astros were in on Encarnacion according to this reporter. https://twitter.com/feinsand/status/1140432617856294913

I assume these talks were pre-Alvarez.  At the moment, seems like the club needs are elsewhere.

[Noe]

Jake Kaplan has an article in The Athletic about Kyle Tucker's trade value, potential starting pitching and bullpen depth that he posted this morning:

https://theathletic.com/1030669/2019/06/17/houston-astros-mailbag-kyle-tucker-trade-value-potential-rotation-targets-state-of-bullpen/

I don't have a subscription but seems people are starting to speculate about Kyle Tucker as a trading chip. I think it would be a huge mistake to waive Tucker out there for a second tier starter (you have Verlander and Cole already) or a bullpen arm or even a three month rental. Hugh mistake, but it doesn't seem to be stopping people from speculating nonetheless. I'd like to know what Kaplan is thinking though. Might have to subscribe. Of course, it's mailbag speculation primarily but I don't know what Kaplan believes is Tucker's value to the club... or not.

[Noe]

Astros were in on Encarnacion according to this reporter. https://twitter.com/feinsand/status/1140432617856294913

Doesn't surprise me. He was the one I would have targeted. Minimal cost if Seattle eats a lot of his contract, the price in terms of prospect would have been low. The big issue was how much Seattle was willing to eat in terms of salary and I agree with Houston not wanting to eat too much of that contract. They need that money for the trade deadline deals that might bring them back some arms.

[Noe]

Jake Kaplan has an article in The Athletic about Kyle Tucker's trade value, potential starting pitching and bullpen depth that he posted this morning:

https://theathletic.com/1030669/2019/06/17/houston-astros-mailbag-kyle-tucker-trade-value-potential-rotation-targets-state-of-bullpen/

I don't have a subscription but seems people are starting to speculate about Kyle Tucker as a trading chip. I think it would be a huge mistake to waive Tucker out there for a second tier starter (you have Verlander and Cole already) or a bullpen arm or even a three month rental. Hugh mistake, but it doesn't seem to be stopping people from speculating nonetheless. I'd like to know what Kaplan is thinking though. Might have to subscribe. Of course, it's mailbag speculation primarily but I don't know what Kaplan believes is Tucker's value to the club... or not.

Okay, here is what Kaplan answers in terms of trading Tucker (for a pitcher or anybody for that matter):

The Astros are in the market for a starting pitcher, and dealing an asset with six years of team control, like Tucker, for a rental like Madison Bumgarner or a starter with one and a half seasons before free agency, like Marcus Stroman, contrasts from general manager Jeff Luhnow’s MO.

Trading Tucker for a pitcher with several years of team control, like Matthew Boyd has left, would make more sense. But even if Boyd were an option, I’m not sold the Astros would part with Tucker. Though he’s seemingly blocked for the rest of this season, if he’s as good as the Astros still seem to think he will be, then he has a ton of potential value to them in 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024 and 2025.

Particularly in the 2021 through 2025 seasons, the door is open for Tucker to be an everyday middle-of-the-order bat for the Astros. Springer, Brantley, Reddick and Jake Marisnick are each on track to be free agents after the 2020 season, and even if the Astros manage to extend or re-sign Springer there will be plenty of room in the outfield for Tucker.

A counter-argument would be that the Astros should trade Tucker while he’s crushing the ball. His 23 home runs in Triple A are tied with Alvarez for the most in the minors this season and he enters Monday with a .287/.360/.649 line in 285 plate appearances. That’s all after a terrible April, too. Since May 1, he has a 1.213 OPS in 195 plate appearances.

Really, much of the debate boils down to what the Astros really think Tucker’s ceiling to be. But given the front office’s track record of holding onto most of its elite prospects, especially on the position player side, I would be surprised if Tucker wasn’t with the Astros on Aug 01

[JimR]

Doesn't surprise me. He was the one I would have targeted. Minimal cost if Seattle eats a lot of his contract, the price in terms of prospect would have been low. The big issue was how much Seattle was willing to eat in terms of salary and I agree with Houston not wanting to eat too much of that contract. They need that money for the trade deadline deals that might bring them back some arms.

Surprises me unless they planned to keep Alvarez in AAA all year.

[Noe]

Surprises me unless they planned to keep Alvarez in AAA all year.

I think Encarnacion would have been a great pickup regardless. He does play first base and also hits as a DH. To me, that is an upgrade from Tyler White. I don't know if they are thinking of Alvarez as a 1st baseman and keeping their options open for Gurriel as a swingman at third, second, first and DH. I think Correa is a concern regardless and you need to have the flexibility to put Bregman at short when and if the time is needed because Mr. Glass... err... I mean, Correa is hurt again. Alvarez, to me, has to be able to play a position and they probably thought giving him more time in AAA as a LF was a better plan. My speculation is that Encarnacion was the key replacement for White and made all the other avenues viable (re: Yuli, et. al.) But plan B of course is Alvarez is here and to stay apparently from the talk coming from Luhnow right now.

Either way, it was a sound idea on both fronts. But Alvarez presents a different avenue to being a 1 to 1 replacement for White. I think you might see Reddick get more 1st base duty because of it or maybe even Brantly.

[chuck]

Brantley has never played first in the majors. But assuming he could, if you had to snag an outfielder and put him at first, he'd be the more logical option than Reddick.

Does anyone know if Brantley saw any time at first in the spring?

[jaklewein]

Brantley has never played first in the majors. But assuming he could, if you had to snag an outfielder and put him at first, he'd be the more logical option than Reddick.

Does anyone know if Brantley saw any time at first in the spring?

I swear I remember his agent saying he was at least willing to play first base...this prior to his signing with the Good Guys.

[Noe]

I swear I remember his agent saying he was at least willing to play first base...this prior to his signing with the Good Guys.

You and Chuck are correct, he's probably the better of the options to move someone to first base as an alternative to Tyler White. It was Ken Rosenthal in the Atletic who reported that Uncle Mike's reps told teams courting Mike during his free agency that he was open to playing first base.  According to Rosenthal, Michael Brantly played 53 games at 1B in the minors in 2007-08.

Another speculation that came out today on the MLB site is Howie Kendrick. Mike Petriello speculates on Kendrick's value to every contending team.

Now we've found something unique. Now we've found Howie Kendrick, who has gone from "longtime reliably steady Angels second baseman" to "useful bit player on playoff teams in Los Angeles and Washington" to "an outfielder, for some reason" to "suffering possibly career-ending Achilles injury" last year, and now, apparently, a multi-positional impact player and potentially very desirable trade candidate.

Here is why he thinks he would have value to the Houston Astros:

Astros: Do the Astros need another bat? When everyone is healthy, perhaps not, but they were also reportedly in on Encarnacion, in part because Tyler White is hitting just .229/.329/.326 (79 OPS+) and Yuli Gurriel isn't doing much better at .255/.288/.390 (80 OPS+). Rookie sensation Yordan Alvarez may solve the DH issues, but only three teams are getting less out of first base, and no team is getting less from their bench.

He end's his summation this way:

That's not a complete list, nor is it intended to be. You could see the Braves having bad memories about their completely non-existent bench from last year's postseason. You could imagine the Twins wanting to go all in on bats. You could see the Phillies being interested in a return engagement since neither Maikel Franco nor Cesar Hernandez have been terribly impressive.

That's the point, really. Kendrick, a highly regarded veteran with postseason experience, the ability to play several positions, and all of a sudden pounding the ball, would be highly coveted by a number of teams. He's the kind of player every contender wants. He's the kind of player that's so often so hard to find, even though the price is rarely that high.

So several points about acquiring Hendrick as an option for the bench:

1. You are worried Almedys Diaz is not going to recover from his hamstring issue because it's probably a tear and not a strain he's dealing with.
2. You want a stronger bench and perhaps a combination of Kendrick and Miles Straw gets you the type of bench you need (if you're going to carry 13 pitchers). Having Jake Marisnick is a luxury of sorts since you are basically conceding that you can afford a defensive specialist on the bench. That was cool when you had Marwin Gonzalez on the team (and to some extent when Diaz started to hit and become the replacement for Marwin on the team).

The injuries to key players and to your bench (in terms of Diaz) has exposed Tyler White, Gurriel, Marisnick and Kemp so far. None of them have performed enough to distinguish themselves as viable playoff team role players because they are being asked to perform as starters and not where they may add value best (as bench players). Expecting everyone to return as 100% who they were may be asking too much but then again, it may be what carries the day for the Astros. But right now, Houston has role players as starters and that is asking a lot of them. In terms of White and Gurriel, they are not role players, they are being asked to be starters on this team regardless (DH and 1st base) and it's a concern right now.

[subnuclear]

According to this, Astros interested in Matt Boyd, but won't give up Tucker for him.

[JimR]

I am not suggesting Boyd is worth Tucker, but if Tucker is not available for a top of the rotation pitcher, what is the plan for him?

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

I am not suggesting Boyd is worth Tucker, but if Tucker is not available for a top of the rotation pitcher, what is the plan for him?

And Boyd is exactly the type of player that the Astros would love to have, under control for 3 years and easily improved by the analytics dept just like Verlander & Cole.  I'd give up Tucker for him in a heartbeat, especially since Cole is gone after this year.

[jbm]

I obviously have no insight into this, but could this (Tucker is untouchable) just be standard negotiating fare.  I've never seen Boyd, or at least i don't recall him; is he a difference maker or just a solid arm?

[TerryPuhl21]

I obviously have no insight into this, but could this (Tucker is untouchable) just be standard negotiating fare.  I've never seen Boyd, or at least i don't recall him; is he a difference maker or just a solid arm?

I think he is just a solid arm, but a solid arm at the back of our rotation right now would be a difference maker. Boyd in our 4 or 5 hole would be a pretty big move, but I’m not totally sold on giving up Tucker for him......just yet.

I’m betting the negotiation with the Tigers will be a difficult one.


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[JimR]

And Boyd is exactly the type of player that the Astros would love to have, under control for 3 years and easily improved by the analytics dept just like Verlander & Cole.  I'd give up Tucker for him in a heartbeat, especially since Cole is gone after this year.

Maybe Cole will leave, but I am not convinced he will. I hasten to add I thought Morton was a lifer too.

[HudsonHawk]

And Boyd is exactly the type of player that the Astros would love to have, under control for 3 years and easily improved by the analytics dept just like Verlander & Cole.  I'd give up Tucker for him in a heartbeat, especially since Cole is gone after this year.

Why are you so certain that Cole will leave?  You think someone will throw crazy money at him?  Or some other reason?

[TeeJoe]

I obviously have no insight into this, but could this (Tucker is untouchable) just be standard negotiating fare.  I've never seen Boyd, or at least i don't recall him; is he a difference maker or just a solid arm?

I'm hoping that stating Tucker is not available for a Boyd type pitcher is just standard negotiating.

Scouting reports indicate he's a flyball pitcher.

Past seasons he's been ok and has never had that high of a pedigree. Seems he's made some changes in 2019 and it's paying off with positive results.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/here-are-a-few-things-about-matthew-boyd/

After splitting time between the majors and Triple-A in 2016 and 2017, 2018 showed some promise for Boyd. His strikeout rate went up and his walk rate went down. His home run rate also went up and while overall he took a step forward as a decent rotation guy for the Tigers, there was room to improve.

And so far in 2019, Boyd has been a strikeout machine. In three starts, Boyd has racked up 40.3% strikeout rate, the second highest rate the majors behind Blake Snell

This report was written Apr 16. He's number 8 on the strikeout list now.

Also for the 2019 season:

He’s throwing his fastballs higher and burying his sliders way, way lower. Also noteworthy is that he’s avoiding the middle part of the plate more than he did last year.

[Jacksonian]

Maybe Cole will leave, but I am not convinced he will. I hasten to add I thought Morton was a lifer too.

It seems to me that guys they want to keep beyond their current contract have already signed.  Verlander, Bregman, Altuve vs Cole, Correa, Springer.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Why are you so certain that Cole will leave?  You think someone will throw crazy money at him?  Or some other reason?

Gut feeling, combined with most the professional prognosticators putting him atop the offseason FA list.  Luhnow & Crane have extended several important players who are already under contract, but they haven't re-signed anyone as important as a #2 starter who made it all the way to free agency.

[BizidyDizidy]

I really wish we had signed CFM. On a related note, check this out:

https://twitter.com/pitchingninja/status/1146224394940964869?s=21

[juliogotay]

Maybe Cole will leave, but I am not convinced he will. I hasten to add I thought Morton was a lifer too.

Man, I hope you are right. I have heard he wants to be back on the west coast.

[juliogotay]

It seems to me that guys they want to keep beyond their current contract have already signed.  Verlander, Bregman, Altuve vs Cole, Correa, Springer.

Why in the world would they not want to keep Springer and Cole?

[TerryPuhl21]

Why in the world would they not want to keep Springer and Cole?

I’m sure they WANT to, but unless Crane changes his mind and decides to blow past the tax threshold, I doubt the money is there for both.

If it was me, I’d sign Springer and let Cole make his dollars elsewhere, but that’s just me.


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[Jacksonian]

Why in the world would they not want to keep Springer and Cole?

I don't know motivations.  I'm only commenting on what they've done and haven't done.

[BudGirl]

According to this, Astros interested in Matt Boyd, but won't give up Tucker for him.

What is Boyd's spin rate?

[TeeJoe]

What is Boyd's spin rate?

2019
https://maxssportingstudio.com/2019/04/06/the-spin-behind-matt-boyds-early-season-success/
Fastball: 2409 RPM (13th out of 86 pitchers [who have thrown at least 100 pitches (complete pitch mix)]; 84.9 percentile)
Curveball: 2233 RPM (67th out of 83 pitchers; 19.3 percentile)
Slider: 2398 RPM (32nd out of 75 pitchers; 57.3 percentile)

He’s throwing both his slider and fastball with a lot more spin. Although Boyd’s curveball generates less spin than most other curveballs, it has become an even more effective pitch for him. Here are two potential reasons as to why…

There is a greater variation in spin between his curveball and slider (2018: 46 RPM difference vs 2019: 155 RPM difference) now.
His fastball has more spin (more of a rising effect), which gives the curveball a different look.

[Jacksonian]

In Luhnow I trust.

[JimR]

I’m sure they WANT to, but unless Crane changes his mind and decides to blow past the tax threshold, I doubt the money is there for both.

If it was me, I’d sign Springer and let Cole make his dollars elsewhere, but that’s just me.


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Why do you have to choose? It always is “just you.”

[JimR]

In Luhnow I trust.

Yep, but not blindly or without thinking about it.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

I am not suggesting Boyd is worth Tucker, but if Tucker is not available for a top of the rotation pitcher, what is the plan for him?

Once Brantley and Reddick are gone (whenever that is),  are they envisioning Tucker,  Alvarez, and Springer as their OF?

[TerryPuhl21]

To trade or not to trade Tucker?

There are at least 5 pitchers that I’m betting Houston has or will kick the tires on. They are, in no particular order...

1. Bumgarner
2. Boyd
3. Stroman
4. Ray
5. Syndargaard

Most everyone I’ve heard in the industry thinks the first 4 are available. Most of those same people think the Mets will make Thor available come late July to get something for him since it is unlikely they will be able to afford him in an extension. All have their pluses and minuses. Boyd and Ray are interesting because as lefties, one of them or Miley could go to the bullpen if we are fortunate enough to make the playoffs. That could be a big factor in what we do. Bumgarner, Syndargaard and Stroman have the better pedigrees but madbum and Thor have injury concerns.

Bumgarner should be the cheapest to acquire since he is a rental. Luhnow may go that route and I think he’d fit in great with Verlander and Cole. Having said that, I’m betting Jeff would prefer to kill two birds with one stone and acquire a pitcher with control to pair with Verlander and McCullers next year (assuming we don’t sign Cole, which I don’t think we will). If I’m right, that points more towards Boyd, Stroman and Syndargaard. Boyd has 3 years left after this season, Thor 2 and Stroman 1.

I think I would deal Tucker to get Syndargaard in a heartbeat. I know it would take more than Tucker even but sign me up. Thor is a power arm cut from the same cloth as Verlander and Cole. I’d pull that trigger and we would have him for 2 more years. He’s done it in the playoffs as well.

I would probably put Tucker in a Stroman deal, but I would be unlikely to include much in the way of quality prospects with him because I’m only getting Stroman for 1 more season.

I’m not inclined to move Tucker for Boyd UNLESS, it is Tucker for Boyd straight up, no other players going to Detroit. Even then, I’d be hesitant. Boyd had a bad month of June. To this point, he hasn’t shown dominate type stuff and hasn’t done it on the big stage. But there is something to be said for a quality, relatively cheap pitcher, that you will have for 3 more years. Barring injury there is some certainty there and who knows what Tucker will or won’t do?

I wouldn’t move Tucker for Ray in any type of deal and I wouldn’t trade him for Bumgarner straight up. Too much to ask for a rental.

Luhnow almost pulled a rabbit out of the hat with a trade for Harper last year that would have come out of nowhere. I’m thinking, I’m hoping, acquiring Syndargaard will be this year’s magic trick.


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[TerryPuhl21]

Why do you have to choose? It always is “just you.”

I’m just telling you my opinion Jim. Luhnow nor Crane care what you or I think. But we can still have our opinions.


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[Sambito]

If we are going to play the Tucker card, it better to get a player/pitcher who will be here at least 3 years, is a dominant player, and we can control the wages enough to sign one or both of Springer/Correa. 

That said, there is nothing written that Cole will be with us long term ---> so any trade for a pitcher must accommodate the notion that we will need a top flight hurler to go with our young and productive hitting (imo).

Bumgarner, Stroman, and Boyd do not really fit the bill here.

DeGrom
Sherzer
Syndegaard if healthy

Seem better fits.

[TeeJoe]

It seems to me that guys they want to keep beyond their current contract have already signed.  Verlander, Bregman, Altuve vs Cole, Correa, Springer.

Looking back at some of the reports written about extension negotiations before the season, I have to agree. 

From the below, Cole indicates that he hadn't received any offers at the time of the article.
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/03/latest-on-extension-talks-between-justin-verlander-astros.html

Cole seems to have snuffed out any possibility of a deal coming together in his case. He says “there have been no contract negotiations,” as Chandler Rome of the Houston Chronicle reports.

The hurler indicated some displeasure with the situation. He tells Rome that the team asked, and he gave permission to hold a discussion with agent Scott Boras. But there was never any talk beyond that per Cole, who says “this seems more like a phone call negotiation involving the media than anyone else.”

[Knoxbanedoodle]

I always wonder if they don't have every confidence in Cole's temperament.

[TeeJoe]

I always wonder if they don't have every confidence in Cole's temperament.

I've never seen any indication of problems in his temperament. I've always liked his mound presence. Seems calm for the most part. I can think of a few games early in the season I felt the ump (Kulpa?) was squeezing him with the strike zone & he was visibly upset...not overly upset. Until he threw what he knew would be his last pitch. Then you could see him make a bee line to the HP ump, giving him his thoughts. To me, that showed an extreme amount of restraint in a era that many are showing "personality".

[juliogotay]

I always wonder if they don't have every confidence in Cole's temperament.

I think that's just his work temperament and I like my big fireballers to have a little nasty disposition on work days. Off the field, he seems to me, to be a laid back California guy of which one of his passions is wine.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

I've never seen any indication of problems in his temperament. I've always liked his mound presence. Seems calm for the most part. I can think of a few games early in the season I felt the ump (Kulpa?) was squeezing him with the strike zone & he was visibly upset...not overly upset. Until he threw what he knew would be his last pitch. Then you could see him make a bee line to the HP ump, giving him his thoughts. To me, that showed an extreme amount of restraint in a era that many are showing "personality".

That Culpa game was an outlier for both Cole and Culpa.

Cole doesn't interact *that* much with HPUs though he will visibly show frustration at times.   Make no mistake,  he was freaking pissed in that game.   And Culpa doesn't usually miss calls that egregiously,  or bait players/coaches/managers that blatantly.

If they have misgivings about Cole, it's likely simply related to whatever math they use to correlate predicted on field performance to cost.

[TeeJoe]

Make no mistake,  he was freaking pissed in that game.

He obviously (and rightfully) had much to say and he still held his tongue until he knew he threw his last pitch. To me that indicates much maturity.

If they have misgivings about Cole, it's likely simply related to whatever math they use to correlate predicted on field performance to cost.

This

[Jacksonian]

Once Brantley and Reddick are gone (whenever that is),  are they envisioning Tucker,  Alvarez, and Springer as their OF?

The contracts for Brantley, Reddick, and Springer expire after the 2020 season.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

The Kulpa game to me is less instructive than the ALCS start: wound up + bad luck + unforced error = Houston behind the 8 ball.

I wonder if they trust him in big games yet, is what I meant, and I'm not sure I see a good reason why they would.

[JimR]

The Kulpa game to me is less instructive than the ALCS start: wound up + bad luck + unforced error = Houston behind the 8 ball.

I wonder if they trust him in big games yet, is what I meant, and I'm not sure I see a good reason why they would.

Are you serious? JV did not win in the WS. He lost to Boston in the ALCS. Do they trust him?

[Knoxbanedoodle]

Are you serious? JV did not win in the WS. He lost to Boston in the ALCS. Do they trust him?

Just floating it. Does Cole have any track record of success in the postseason? JV certainly does.

I know it isn't wise to extrapolate from one start--much less one inning--but that Game 2 start of his has had an overlarge presence in my own memory. I can't remember how he handled himself in his consecutive WC matchups against Arietta.

Just throwing it out there as a possible contributing factor to their seeming disinterest in resigning him.

[JimR]

Just floating it. Does Cole have any track record of success in the postseason? JV certainly does.

I know it isn't wise to extrapolate from one start--much less one inning--but that Game 2 start of his has had an overlarge presence in my own memory. I can't remember how he handled himself in his consecutive WC matchups against Arietta.

Just throwing it out there as a possible contributing factor to their seeming disinterest in resigning him.

WTF? Seeming disinterest? He is the one, not the club. Crane said he and JV would be extended. Cole put the brakes on that talk. How you could turn that into “the Astros doubt his temperament” is beyond me.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Just floating it. Does Cole have any track record of success in the postseason? JV certainly does.

I know it isn't wise to extrapolate from one start--much less one inning--but that Game 2 start of his has had an overlarge presence in my own memory. I can't remember how he handled himself in his consecutive WC matchups against Arietta.

Just throwing it out there as a possible contributing factor to their seeming disinterest in resigning him.

You know who didn't have a good postseason track record?

David Price.  Worked out for the BoSox though,  didn't he?

162 game regular season,  19 game (max) postseason.

If there's a performance question they have, it's informed by their biggest pile of data,  not the smallest.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

WTF? Seeming disinterest? He is the one, not the club. Crane said he and JV would be extended. Cole put the brakes on that talk. How you could turn that into “the Astros doubt his temperament” is beyond me.

I remember Cole saying that they hadn't been approached and that they would welcome any conversation. I guess that's not your memory.

ETA: https://www.chron.com/sports/astros/article/Gerrit-Cole-says-no-current-contract-talks-with-13709570.php

That's the last I saw of it.

Either way, I take it you aren't concerned with Cole on the bump in the postseason and don't think the Astros are either. Fair 'nuff.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

You know who didn't have a good postseason track record?

David Price.  Worked out for the BoSox though,  didn't he?

162 game regular season,  19 game (max) postseason.

If there's a performance question they have, it's informed by their biggest pile of data,  not the smallest.

I looked it up. Cole's 2-3 with a 3.72 ERA in 5 postseason starts. Not bad, not great.

Price for sure worked out. But--and maybe this is just me--he strikes me as a calmer presence on the mound than Cole. He's also five years older.

That said, I'm sure you're right. Reddick's history of failure in the clutch certainly didn't stop them inking him, and I'm glad as hell it didn't.

[juliogotay]

Just floating it. Does Cole have any track record of success in the postseason? JV certainly does.

I know it isn't wise to extrapolate from one start--much less one inning--but that Game 2 start of his has had an overlarge presence in my own memory. I can't remember how he handled himself in his consecutive WC matchups against Arietta.

Just throwing it out there as a possible contributing factor to their seeming disinterest in resigning him.

Rather small sample sizes in Post-Season to extrapolate a post-season Cole opinion. I would trust him in post-season in a heartbeat.

[VirtualBob]

I remember Cole saying that they hadn't been approached and that they would welcome any conversation. I guess that's not your memory.

ETA: https://www.chron.com/sports/astros/article/Gerrit-Cole-says-no-current-contract-talks-with-13709570.php

That's the last I saw of it.

Either way, I take it you aren't concerned with Cole on the bump in the postseason and don't think the Astros are either. Fair 'nuff.

There was probably a typo in his gmial address.

[toddthebod]

I think that Cole is going to get a shit-ton of money thrown at him this offseason and the Astros won't want to spend that much -- his performance having nothing to do with it.

I do not believe that the Astros will trade Tucker and that they will want him to start next season in RF.

The Astros were hoping that they could trade Reddick last offseason but that didn't happen -- he still had $26 million owed to him and his offensive numbers (outside of HRs) were down.  My guess is that they will try again this offseason to open up a spot for Tucker.  Reddick will be more easily tradeable this offseason.

The Astros need starting pitching and a reliever.  I don't believe they will trade Tucker for a starter.  The available starters just aren't good enough.

I'm thinking that the Astros end up trading for Greinke with the Diamondbacks picking up half of his remaining contract.  The Astros are not on Greinke's 15-team no-trade list.  Not sure who the Astros will trade in return but it won't be any of their top 5 prospects.  Greinke is under control through 2021.

So my guess is that the outfield for next season is Brantley, Springer, Tucker with Alvarez as the DH and part-time left-fielder.  Gurriel will start at first (glad that he's hitting again so people can stop busting on him -- he's just fine) with the idea that Beer will replace him in 2021.

The rotation for next season will be Verlander, Greinke, McCullers and name your two other starters, but that's a really good top-3.







 

[TerryPuhl21]

I think that Cole is going to get a shit-ton of money thrown at him this offseason and the Astros won't want to spend that much -- his performance having nothing to do with it.

I do not believe that the Astros will trade Tucker and that they will want him to start next season in RF.

The Astros were hoping that they could trade Reddick last offseason but that didn't happen -- he still had $26 million owed to him and his offensive numbers (outside of HRs) were down.  My guess is that they will try again this offseason to open up a spot for Tucker.  Reddick will be more easily tradeable this offseason.

The Astros need starting pitching and a reliever.  I don't believe they will trade Tucker for a starter.  The available starters just aren't good enough.

I'm thinking that the Astros end up trading for Greinke with the Diamondbacks picking up half of his remaining contract.  The Astros are not on Greinke's 15-team no-trade list.  Not sure who the Astros will trade in return but it won't be any of their top 5 prospects.  Greinke is under control through 2021.

So my guess is that the outfield for next season is Brantley, Springer, Tucker with Alvarez as the DH and part-time left-fielder.  Gurriel will start at first (glad that he's hitting again so people can stop busting on him -- he's just fine) with the idea that Beer will replace him in 2021.

The rotation for next season will be Verlander, Greinke, McCullers and name your two other starters, but that's a really good top-3.

Even with Grienke’s massively bloated contract, Arizona’s payroll is only in the neighborhood of $125M. I could be wrong, but I don’t think they are in dire straits financially and only have $67M committed for next season. If I’m the D-Backs and you expect me to eat half the money in a Grienke deal, then you are definitely giving me Whitley or Tucker in the deal or I’m hanging up.

I think the emergence of Alvarez could quite possibly change the Tucker equation. While I don’t the Houston will move Tucker for just anyone, I think they will move him for a top flight pitcher with control. I’m going on record as saying the Mets will move Syndargaard by July 31 and we send Tucker to them for Thor.


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[JimR]

The kid’s name is Whitley, Mr. GM.

[TerryPuhl21]

The kid’s name is Whitley, Mr. GM.

Sorry for the innocent typo. Thanks, Mr. .......

Never mind, it isn’t worth it.


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[JimR]

Sorry for the innocent typo. Thanks, Mr. .......

Never mind, it isn’t worth it.


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WFW

[TerryPuhl21]

WFW

Fuck you old man.


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[JimR]

Fuck you old man.


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Hahahaha. So weak.
Like your “they go on forever” posts.

[TerryPuhl21]

Hahahaha. So weak.
Like your “they go on forever” posts.

[emoji23]


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[geezerdonk]

Miley also looking like he might get a fat contract. What are the chances of re-upping him?

[jaklewein]

Miley also looking like he might get a fat contract. What are the chances of re-upping him?

I was a little disappointed that management did get a club option for '20 included in the current deal.  I'm sure they tried...

Would love him back at the right price.

[homer]

An interesting tidbit I’ve heard is both the Yankees and Twins have inquired about a Stroman/Giles package. I’m sure Ross Atkins would prefer to maximize the returns separately, however.

https://twitter.com/ScottyMitchTSN/status/1148267597957423105

[BUWebguy]

Ken Rosenthal says the "Astros, Twins, Braves and Brewers are among the clubs interested in Bumgarner" -- no mention of what the return might be:
https://theathletic.com/1067296/2019/07/08/rosenthal-the-market-for-bumgarner-the-cubs-true-talent-level-the-yankees-search-for-pitching-more-notes/

[TerryPuhl21]

Ken Rosenthal says the "Astros, Twins, Braves and Brewers are among the clubs interested in Bumgarner" -- no mention of what the return might be:
https://theathletic.com/1067296/2019/07/08/rosenthal-the-market-for-bumgarner-the-cubs-true-talent-level-the-yankees-search-for-pitching-more-notes/

MLB Radio speculating that Giants could be asking something similar to what Cubs gave up for Chapman. Torres was a level 55 prospect they said at the time. If you check our prospects currently ranked in the 50-55 range you would have....

Martin
JBB
Nova
Abreu
Beer
Solomon

I’m not sure that I’d evaluate him like Chapman but just repeating what I heard.


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[doyce7]

Ken Rosenthal says the "Astros, Twins, Braves and Brewers are among the clubs interested in Bumgarner" -- no mention of what the return might be:
https://theathletic.com/1067296/2019/07/08/rosenthal-the-market-for-bumgarner-the-cubs-true-talent-level-the-yankees-search-for-pitching-more-notes/

Saw a video and I think it was Rosenthal, saying might be a return similar to what the Rangers got for Yu Darvish which, if that's true then sign me up

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[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Saw a video and I think it was Rosenthal, saying might be a return similar to what the Rangers got for Yu Darvish which, if that's true then sign me up

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Me too. But I'd hope for a better result from Bumgarner than what the Dodgers got from Darvish.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

From The Athletic about Matthew Boyd, and how the Astros could be the ideal fit for him:

It starts with defense. According to Baseball Info Solutions, the Astros’ defense has saved nearly 100 more runs than Detroit’s has, hinting at the huge run-prevention boost Boyd could get in Houston. Drill down deeper, and we could see the Astros’ vaunted pitching brain trust get even more out of Boyd’s excellent stuff. A fastball-slider pitcher, Boyd’s allowed opponents to hit a respectable .252 with a .456 slugging average against his four-seamer this year. If the Astros can coax more movement out of that fastball while offering the security blanket of excellent outfield defense, we could see Boyd throw more frequent heaters with serious ride on them, resulting in more harmless fly outs and more swings and misses, if all goes according to plan.

[jaklewein]

From The Athletic about Matthew Boyd, and how the Astros could be the ideal fit for him:

I like MadBum but am really hoping we land Boyd so we have another arm locked up in the rotation heading into next season.  I'm hearing it will be a haul to get him...not sure what that means but I'm hoping Luhnow can pull something off.

[Lefty]

It's from Sherman in the NY Post, but the Stros are "said to be among the most interested teams" inquiring about Trevor Bauer.

[toddthebod]

Gammons just said on the Mad Dog show that he thinks the Astros are going end up with Stroman -- that the Astros want him as much as they wanted Verlander a couple of years ago.  FWIW

[das]

It's from Sherman in the NY Post, but the Stros are "said to be among the most interested teams" inquiring about Trevor Bauer.

That would be surprising since the Indians are firmly in the playoff picture.  As in not in the hunt but actually in right now.  How would you ever explain that to your fans?

[JimR]

That would be surprising since the Indians are firmly in the playoff picture.  As in not in the hunt but actually in right now.  How would you ever explain that to your fans?

Easier than explaining it to Cole and Bregman.

[Bench]

Easier than explaining it to Cole and Bregman.

I thought Bregman and Bauer were bros. Cole of course not so much.

[JimR]

I thought Bregman and Bauer were bros. Cole of course not so much.

If bros engage in Twitter wars, then they may be.

[Bench]

If bros engage in Twitter wars, then they may be.

I thought so, but I guess not. For some reason I was under the impression that they worked out together in the offseason, but google has disabused me of that notion.

[TerryPuhl21]

the Red Sox just got Andrew Cashner from the Orioles.


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[Astros Fan in Big D]

the Red Sox just got Andrew Cashner from the Orioles.


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Crap.

He was one of my darkhorse candidates for the Astros.

[TerryPuhl21]

Crap.

He was one of my darkhorse candidates for the Astros.

Mine too. He would’ve looked pretty good in the 5 hole of our rotation. Since June 1 he’s got an ERA under 2. Quietly been one of the top starters in baseball this season.


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[chuck]

One of my sources says that the team is on the verge of acquiring Homer Bailey and will DFA Kemp.

Don't shoot me, I'm only the piano player.

At least you can say that a dude named Homer would slide right in to this rotation.

[moriartp]

One of my sources says that the team is on the verge of acquiring Homer Bailey and will DFA Kemp.

Bailey's been scratched from his start today.

[HudsonHawk]

One of my sources says that the team is on the verge of acquiring Homer Bailey and will DFA Kemp.

Don't shoot me, I'm only the piano player.

At least you can say that a dude named Homer would slide right in to this rotation.

Word is Bailey to the A's

[Astros Fan in Big D]

A's Twitter says they have him:

https://twitter.com/AthleticsPR/status/1150468788283834368?s=19

[TerryPuhl21]

Luhnow just said Peacock will not make his start tomorrow as planned. Valdez will make the start. He then stated the obvious, “we probably need to be looking at external options.”


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[chuck]

Apparently the A's totally blindsided the Astros. They had already told Kemp he was DFA'd.

[toddthebod]

I dont understand why the Astros sent down Sneed.  He has pitched way better than Valdez and should be getting the start.

As for Bailey, glad the Astros didn't get him. 

[jbm]

Apparently the A's totally blindsided the Astros. They had already told Kemp he was DFA'd.

I hope your source was wrong. No rational team DFAs Kemp before White, or tells someone they’re gone until the ink on the deal is dry.

[JimR]

I hope your source was wrong. No rational team DFAs Kemp before White, or tells someone they’re gone until the ink on the deal is dry.

This.

[chuck]

Like I said, don't shoot ME.

Here's the latest:

"we are about to take on a big contract"

[Fredia]

another deal?

[homer]

Like I said, don't shoot ME.

Here's the latest:

"we are about to take on a big contract"

Greinke...?

[BizidyDizidy]

Trout got pulled from the game....

Chuck, please tell me it’s happening

[moriartp]

Trout got pulled from the game....

"We got fucked on Bailey. Time to get the next best thing."

[chuck]

Scherzer was the name that was speculated by the person who relays the information but as far as I can tell that is nothing more than a wild ass guess based on who might be available and has a big contract.

Can Trout pitch? Probably can. I haven't seen much of anything he can't do on a baseball field.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

Trout got pulled from the game....

Chuck, please tell me it’s happening

There's no place for him.

[ducks]

[homer]

There's no place for him.

[ducks]

Platoon with Reddick.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

Just another day at the office for Marisnick...

[Ron Brand]

Luhnow just said Peacock will not make his start tomorrow as planned. Valdez will make the start. He then stated the obvious, “we probably need to be looking at external options.”

Jake Kaplan of The Athletic reports that "Peacock reported some soreness in his shoulder after throwing batting practice Saturday, July 13, and is scheduled to meet with team doctors. "

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

So glad they didn't get Bailey. My wish list in order of most wanted. Scherzer, Bumgarner, Bauer, Stroman.

[Jacksonian]

So glad they didn't get Bailey. My wish list in order of most wanted. Scherzer, Bumgarner, Bauer, Stroman.

As of right now the Nationals are in the postseason so I don't think they'll be dealing their ace.

[jaklewein]

As of right now the Nationals are in the postseason so I don't think they'll be dealing their ace.

And that is alot of $$$.  $45M per (with some amount deferred through 2028 season).

[Jacksonian]

I'm not saying it's going to happen.  I'm going to leave this name here:  Jeff Samardzija  Astros scouts are everywhere, and his spin rate is right up there with Verlander and Cole.

[homer]

I'm not saying it's going to happen.  I'm going to leave this name here:  Jeff Samardzija  Astros scouts are everywhere, and his spin rate is right up there with Verlander and Cole.

19.8 million this year and next year. 17th highest for starting pitchers.

[TerryPuhl21]

I'm not saying it's going to happen.  I'm going to leave this name here:  Jeff Samardzija  Astros scouts are everywhere, and his spin rate is right up there with Verlander and Cole.

I’ve thought about him and it is well known that the Astros were high on him a couple years ago. Some of his numbers are decent but the dollars are the problem as I see it. You’d have to get the Giants to eat a big chunk of that which I would think would cost you more from a prospect perspective.


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[TerryPuhl21]

I'm not saying it's going to happen.  I'm going to leave this name here:  Jeff Samardzija  Astros scouts are everywhere, and his spin rate is right up there with Verlander and Cole.

I’m a little concerned about where we turn, though I’m sure Luhnow will come through. When you look around the league there simply aren’t many “quality” pitchers available.

Stroman
Ray
Bumgarner
Wheeler (now on the IL)
Boyd

That is probably the five best who are thought to be available as I type. And you have the Astros, Yankees, Twins, Phillies, Rays, Brewers, Braves, etc all looking for starting pitching. It sure looks like the price will be steep and will only go up as each one comes off the board. If Bauer and Syndargaard are not made available in the next couple of weeks the supply is thin.


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[juliogotay]

I’ve thought about him and it is well known that the Astros were high on him a couple years ago. Some of his numbers are decent but the dollars are the problem as I see it. You’d have to get the Giants to eat a big chunk of that which I would think would cost you more from a prospect perspective.


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That would solve one of the needs for a BOR innings-eater.

[TerryPuhl21]

That would solve one of the needs for a BOR innings-eater.

It would, and we need a guy like that. I REALLY wanted them to go after Cashner. Wouldn’t he look great right now in the 4 or 5 hole and he was CHEAP!

If the Giants would eat the remainder of this year’s salary you could get him without going over the cap possibly. As far as we know publicly, Crane still won’t go over. If so, you would have him for one more year at almost $20M. What would you give up prospect wise for that? You might be able to give up less than what it would take to acquire say Robbie Ray, because you take the full salary next year? Other teams may not go after him because of the dollars so you may not have to give up as much to get him.


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[JimR]

Something needs to happen ASAP before the rotation rolls back to 4 and 5.

[TerryPuhl21]

Something needs to happen ASAP before the rotation rolls back to 4 and 5.

I agree Jim. Surly the powers that be will not allow us to go thru the 4 and 5 hole abyss again. Hoping we have some movement today or tomorrow.


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[Astros Fan in Big D]

Something needs to happen ASAP before the rotation rolls back to 4 and 5.

The schedule has worked against them with this dilemma.   In the middle of 14 straight games post ASB.

[toddthebod]

If the Astros are going to get Samardzija, I would want another starting pitcher as well.  But Samardzija would partly solve the immediate issue.   

[juliogotay]

If the Astros are going to get Samardzija, I would want another starting pitcher as well.  But Samardzija would partly solve the immediate issue.

 I agree.

[Jacksonian]

If the Astros are going to get Samardzija, I would want another starting pitcher as well.  But Samardzija would partly solve the immediate issue.

Hmm.  A new name just flew by.  Don't rule out Gray in Colorado.

[TerryPuhl21]

Hmm.  A new name just flew by.  Don't rule out Gray in Colorado.

Yeah, I’ve thought about him. He’s got as good a numbers as anyone else but I haven’t considered him as available. His WHIP is 1.33 but that is no doubt inflated by Coors.


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[JimR]

Hmm.  A new name just flew by.  Don't rule out Gray in Colorado.

Flew by where? Gray is good or at least he was.

[jwhudson]

I was looking for Sonny Gray, he is having a good year.

[Jacksonian]

Flew by where? Gray is good or at least he was.

A source but now I found out I'm last on the list getting the info.  Apparently there were multiple sites throwing out that idea a day before I got it.

[JimR]

A source but now I found out I'm last on the list getting the info.  Apparently there were multiple sites throwing out that idea a day before I got it.

Ok. Hoping you had inside stuff, not website speculation.

[Ron Brand]

Yeah, I’ve thought about him. He’s got as good a numbers as anyone else but I haven’t considered him as available. His WHIP is 1.33 but that is no doubt inflated by Coors.

Gray actually is a lot better at Coors than he is on the road. He's a good pitcher, but he's a two-pitch pitcher and the Astros can do better.

[doyce7]

Hmm.  A new name just flew by.  Don't rule out Gray in Colorado.

Hmmm, that's really interesting. I wonder why Colorado would be looking to move Gray? I know they are not in a great spot this season but they seem to still be in compete mode and Gray still has a few years of team control left.

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[JimR]

Hmmm, that's really interesting. I wonder why Colorado would be looking to move Gray? I know they are not in a great spot this season but they seem to still be in compete mode and Gray still has a few years of team control left.

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Just website bs.

[subnuclear]

Gray actually is a lot better at Coors than he is on the road. He's a good pitcher, but he's a two-pitch pitcher and the Astros can do better.

Are the certain types of pitchers that do better at Coors? Haven't heard that.

[TerryPuhl21]

Interesting pitching matchups tonight to keep an eye on. You have Boyd versus Bauer and Syndargaard verses Bumgarner.


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[Kit]

Are the certain types of pitchers that do better at Coors? Haven't heard that.

I don't have stats to back it up but I'd think control guys that rely on spotting their fastball, would do better there than more of a breaking ball pitcher.

[Ron Brand]

I don't have stats to back it up but I'd think control guys that rely on spotting their fastball, would do better there than more of a breaking ball pitcher.

Yeah, it's fastball / sinker / changeup guys. Gray's about a run better at home than on the road in his ERA and it's pretty consistent through his career.

[subnuclear]

I can understand someone being relatively better at Coors compared to other pitchers, but his actual ERA is lower at Coors. Maybe you just get used to it and it messes with your pitching everywhere else.

[Jacksonian]

So now barring any injuries which of course can’t be predicted (offering frito pie to the BBG’s), the remaining moves are to get Correa and Diaz back, option Straw, pray for Peacock’s health and add at least one pitcher via trade?

[JimR]

I continue to be amazed at Luhnow’s ability to operate in total silence to the outside world. There are zero media rumors about what he is doing.

[juliogotay]

I continue to be amazed at Luhnow’s ability to operate in total silence to the outside world. There are zero media rumors about what he is doing.

I sure was surprised when the Verlander deal happened. I had not heard any rumors about him and Houston. Not sure I heard any about him being available.

[TerryPuhl21]

I continue to be amazed at Luhnow’s ability to operate in total silence to the outside world. There are zero media rumors about what he is doing.

Remember how no one found out we almost acquired Harper until well after the fact? Well, I’m hoping this silence means Luhnow is working on something REALLY big.


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[geezerdonk]

Luhnow is really going to earn his money this year. The Astros' potential trade partners know their desperate circumstances and are going to drive a hard bargain.

[TerryPuhl21]

FWIW, Rosenthal reporting tonight that we have contacted the Mets about Syndergaard.

Then again, we’ve probably contacted a lot of teams about a lot of folks.


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[toddthebod]

I was listening to WFAN last night, and Steve Sommers suggested that the gamers should trade Syndergaard for Tucker, Whitley, and Yordan.  Wow.  Anything else?

I could see the Astros trading one of Tucker or Whitley + others for Syndergaard.  But I would imagine that any calls about Yordan are very short and usually end with Luhnow laughing maniacally as he hangs up.

[JimR]

Crazy.

[MusicMan]

I was listening to WFAN last night, and Steve Sommers suggested that the gamers should trade Syndergaard for Tucker, Whitley, and Yordan.  Wow.  Anything else?

I could see the Astros trading one of Tucker or Whitley + others for Syndergaard.  But I would imagine that any calls about Yordan are very short and usually end with Luhnow laughing maniacally as he hangs up.

Yaaah, you think we could get Bregman and dat short little guy plus Alvarez for Thor? Imma hang up and listen.


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[Ty in Tampa]

Yaaah, you think we could get Bregman and dat short little guy plus Alvarez for Thor Thoah? Imma hang up and listen.


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[Navin R Johnson]

From mlbtraderumors.com

4:03pm: The Mets “want to move” Syndergaard in a trade, a rival evaluator tells ESPN.com’s Buster Olney (Twitter link).  The feeling amongst many outside evaluators is that the Mets are “fully intent” on dealing Syndergaard.  As to The Athletic’s Marc Carig hears from a rival executive, the asking price on Syndergaard is something in the range of a top-30 prospect “and a couple of other solid pieces.”

[JimR]

From mlbtraderumors.com

4:03pm: The Mets “want to move” Syndergaard in a trade, a rival evaluator tells ESPN.com’s Buster Olney (Twitter link).  The feeling amongst many outside evaluators is that the Mets are “fully intent” on dealing Syndergaard.  As to The Athletic’s Marc Carig hears from a rival executive, the asking price on Syndergaard is something in the range of a top-30 prospect “and a couple of other solid pieces.”

I would trade Tucker if necessary to get him.

[Sambito]

A couple of things:

1.  Any National League team going for Yordan needs to think about it.   His hitting talent is and will be amazing and worth a great deal, but what makes him untouchable for the Astros at this point is that we can park him at DH (train him in RF).   His production is so much more valuable to us than the Mets or other NL teams (imo).  Thus, he's not on the menu even if the Mets want him - makes no sense.

2.  Thor would be nice.  And I agree with Jim here, that Tucker should be expendable for a top quality pitcher (especially as we do not know what going to happen with Cole and a possible FA treasure of 200M.   

3.  If we are going to trade for Thor - I hope we could get another bullpen arm to go with him like Seth Lugo.

Lugo & Thor for

Tucker
Toro or Tanileu
Bakauskas/Bielak
Class A prospect

Should get that deal done.   If not say goodbye and let the Mets do what they do best (whinge and moan about their luck).

Signed, still bitter 1986 Stros fan.  Mike Scott would have won game 7 btfw


4.  If we do it piece mail.  Then I'd like to go for

A.  Amir Garrett - Reds
B.  Seth Lugo - Mets
C.  Kirby Yates - Padres

*** we have enough hitting (imo).. if we get an injury maybe someone like Merrifield from the Royals (if Correa cannot recuperate).

[JimR]

Alvarez is untouchable. Other teams should know not to even ask.

[Navin R Johnson]

I have a better shot of being put on the Astros 40 man roster than another team does of prying Yordan away from the Astros.

[MusicMan]

Lugo and Thor for Tucker. Who says no?


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[JimR]

Lugo and Thor for Tucker. Who says no?


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The Mets?

[Navin R Johnson]

Probably depends on what other teams are offering.

[MusicMan]

The Mets?

Ok. You’re the Mets. What else do you need to make the deal?


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[JimR]

Ok. You’re the Mets. What else do you need to make the deal?


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Dunno. I just don’t think Tucker alone would get both.

ETA: I try to avoid those national speculation sites because they are only guessing. One today, however, matched up the Astros with Syndergard, Vasquez (Pirates LH reliever), and James McCann. That would be a nice haul.

[MusicMan]

Dunno. I just don’t think Tucker alone would get both.

ETA: I try to avoid those national speculation sites because they are only guessing. One today, however, matched up the Astros with Syndergard, Vasquez (Pirates LH reliever), and James McCann. That would be a nice haul.

That would be Christmas in July, but might wipe out the farm system.


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[JimR]

That would be Christmas in July, but might wipe out the farm system.


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Yep. Lotsa players moving, but those are the positions Luhnow wants.

[TerryPuhl21]

Probably depends on what other teams are offering.

I’ve heard the Yankees appear to be willing to offer Garcia to get Thor. He’s ranked as #2 pitcher in their system and #3 overall. I guess our comp as a pitcher would be Martin who is out with TJ.

If I’m the Mets I want an outfield bat and an arm, both of them somewhat ready. So....

Tucker, Valdez or James plus another player.


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[JimR]

I’ve heard the Yankees appear to be willing to offer Garcia to get Thor. He’s ranked as #2 pitcher in their system and #3 overall. I guess our comp as a pitcher would be Martin who is out with TJ.

If I’m the Mets I want an outfield bat and an arm, both of them somewhat ready. So....

Tucker, Valdez or James plus another player.


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They are not trading him to the Yankees.

No on James.

[doyce7]

A couple of things:

1.  Any National League team going for Yordan needs to think about it.   His hitting talent is and will be amazing and worth a great deal, but what makes him untouchable for the Astros at this point is that we can park him at DH (train him in RF).   His production is so much more valuable to us than the Mets or other NL teams (imo).  Thus, he's not on the menu even if the Mets want him - makes no sense.

2.  Thor would be nice.  And I agree with Jim here, that Tucker should be expendable for a top quality pitcher (especially as we do not know what going to happen with Cole and a possible FA treasure of 200M.   

3.  If we are going to trade for Thor - I hope we could get another bullpen arm to go with him like Seth Lugo.

Lugo & Thor for

Tucker
Toro or Tanileu
Bakauskas/Bielak
Class A prospect

Should get that deal done.   If not say goodbye and let the Mets do what they do best (whinge and moan about their luck).

Signed, still bitter 1986 Stros fan.  Mike Scott would have won game 7 btfw


4.  If we do it piece mail.  Then I'd like to go for

A.  Amir Garrett - Reds
B.  Seth Lugo - Mets
C.  Kirby Yates - Padres

*** we have enough hitting (imo).. if we get an injury maybe someone like Merrifield from the Royals (if Correa cannot recuperate).

A couple of things:

1.  Any National League team going for Yordan needs to think about it.   His hitting talent is and will be amazing and worth a great deal, but what makes him untouchable for the Astros at this point is that we can park him at DH (train him in RF).   His production is so much more valuable to us than the Mets or other NL teams (imo).  Thus, he's not on the menu even if the Mets want him - makes no sense.

2.  Thor would be nice.  And I agree with Jim here, that Tucker should be expendable for a top quality pitcher (especially as we do not know what going to happen with Cole and a possible FA treasure of 200M.   

3.  If we are going to trade for Thor - I hope we could get another bullpen arm to go with him like Seth Lugo.

Lugo & Thor for

Tucker
Toro or Tanileu
Bakauskas/Bielak
Class A prospect

Should get that deal done.   If not say goodbye and let the Mets do what they do best (whinge and moan about their luck).

Signed, still bitter 1986 Stros fan.  Mike Scott would have won game 7 btfw


4.  If we do it piece mail.  Then I'd like to go for

A.  Amir Garrett - Reds
B.  Seth Lugo - Mets
C.  Kirby Yates - Padres

*** we have enough hitting (imo).. if we get an injury maybe someone like Merrifield from the Royals (if Correa cannot recuperate).

Yordan will be an Astro for at least 7 years. No team would even think about asking for him, they know they would get laughed at.

A package deal for Syndergaard/Lugo would be nice but I don't know that the mets would go for that. If they are winning to do it then great.

The Reds have very little reason to move Garrett unless they think he's not actually very good, he's got 4 more years of team comtrol.

Kirby Yates would be a great addition to the pen but will definitely cost you more than any other reliever on the market. I think the Padres may end up trying to extend him.

Merrifield isn't going anywhere if you believe the reports. His contract is so team friendly that he won't lose value between now and the offseason.

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[doyce7]

I’ve heard the Yankees appear to be willing to offer Garcia to get Thor. He’s ranked as #2 pitcher in their system and #3 overall. I guess our comp as a pitcher would be Martin who is out with TJ.

If I’m the Mets I want an outfield bat and an arm, both of them somewhat ready. So....

Tucker, Valdez or James plus another player.


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Highly doubt the Mets would trade one of their biggest stars to the Yankees, talk about a PR nightmare.

Not sure why the Mets would want Framber. The ask would probably be Tucker, Bukauskas and maybe a guy like Fisher or A ball lottery ticket and throw in Kemp for good measure. Now you're close to a deal, I'd say

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[JimR]

Highly doubt the Mets would trade one of their biggest stars to the Yankees, talk about a PR nightmare.

Not sure why the Mets would want Framber. The ask would probably be Tucker, Bukauskas and maybe a guy like Fisher or A ball lottery ticket and throw in Kemp for good measure. Now you're close to a deal, I'd say

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I’d do that in a heartbeat.

[Mr. Happy]

I would trade Tucker if necessary to get him.

In a New York second.

[Jacksonian]

Highly doubt the Mets would trade one of their biggest stars to the Yankees, talk about a PR nightmare.

Not sure why the Mets would want Framber. The ask would probably be Tucker, Bukauskas and maybe a guy like Fisher or A ball lottery ticket and throw in Kemp for good measure. Now you're close to a deal, I'd say

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i can't see Luhnow giving up both Tucker and Fisher.  He's got to keep one for outfield depth in case of injury.  I'd do a Tucker/Bukauskus plus Brandon Bielak for him.

[jaklewein]

i can't see Luhnow giving up both Tucker and Fisher.  He's got to keep one for outfield depth in case of injury.  I'd do a Tucker/Bukauskus plus Brandon Bielak for him.

I just hope Tucker still has enough value to be considered the centerpiece of a deal like this.  He has not performed well as of late.

[JimR]

i can't see Luhnow giving up both Tucker and Fisher.  He's got to keep one for outfield depth in case of injury.  I'd do a Tucker/Bukauskus plus Brandon Bielak for him.

Not a reason to not trade for Syndergard. Diaz and Álvarez can play LF. Ferguson is in RR. Rojas plays LF too.  Make the trade and worry about “what ifs” when they happen. He does not need to keep one of those two if the Mets will trade and want them

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Not a reason to not trade for Syndergard. Diaz and Álvarez can play LF. Ferguson is in RR. Rojas plays LF too.  Make the trade and worry about “what ifs” when they happen. He does not need to keep one of those two if the Mets will trade and want them

Straw too.

[doyce7]

I just hope Tucker still has enough value to be considered the centerpiece of a deal like this.  He has not performed well as of late.

I think he does, he's still soooo young

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[JimR]

Straw too.

Oh, hell yes

[JimR]

I think he does, he's still soooo young

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I think he may be pouting. A trade could  energize him.

[Jacksonian]

Not a reason to not trade for Syndergard. Diaz and Álvarez can play LF. Ferguson is in RR. Rojas plays LF too.  Make the trade and worry about “what ifs” when they happen. He does not need to keep one of those two if the Mets will trade and want them

Ferguson and Rojas are not on the 40-man, and they don't have Fisher's speed.  Diaz and Alvarez are not fast like him either.  If either Marisnick or Straw go down Fisher would get the call especially in the post-season.

[JimR]

Ferguson and Rojas are not on the 40-man, and they don't have Fisher's speed.  Diaz and Alvarez are not fast like him either.  If either Marisnick or Straw go down Fisher would get the call especially in the post-season.

Not a reason to turn down Syndegard.

Crazy really. There are FOUR CFs on this team now. We won the WS with a utility infielder playing LF. I hope Luhnow is not as timid as you think he is.

[BlownRanger]

I just hope Tucker still has enough value to be considered the centerpiece of a deal like this.  He has not performed well as of late.

As mentioned in a Bus Ride thread, the former GMs who now opine on satellite radio all think Tucker is the best prospect with a chance of being traded.  That might just be a case of basing it off the final preseason prospect rankings.

[TerryPuhl21]

Not a reason to turn down Syndegard.

Crazy really. There are FOUR CFs on this team now.

Agree. And we also don’t know how Luhnow’s long term outlook may influence what he does now.

For example, let’s say the long term budgetary plan excludes the signing of Springer and Correa long term, and they have decided that Springer is the one to keep because of Correa’s fragility. You could give up some prospects now if you know that in the off-season your going to trade Correa with 2 years to play and can restock the system with that deal.

Not saying that’s the plan or what I’d necessarily do, just saying that the organization I’m sure is looking at this deal for how it impacts us now and the future.


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[JimR]

Agree. And we also don’t know how Luhnow’s long term outlook may influence what he does now.

For example, let’s say the long term budgetary plan excludes the signing of Springer and Correa long term, and they have decided that Springer is the one to keep because of Correa’s fragility. You could give up some prospects now if you know that in the off-season your going to trade Correa with 2 years to play and can restock the system with that deal.

Not saying that’s the plan or what I’d necessarily do, just saying that the organization I’m sure is looking at this deal for how it impacts us now and the future.


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Win now is what one does.

[TerryPuhl21]

Win now is what one does.

I agree and that was kind of what I was alluding too. I know you don’t care what I think, but I’d make whatever trade I thought I had to in order to win NOW. Give whatever it took, because in the off-season I have a plan to recoup my prospect losses.


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[juliogotay]

Agree. And we also don’t know how Luhnow’s long term outlook may influence what he does now.

For example, let’s say the long term budgetary plan excludes the signing of Springer and Correa long term, and they have decided that Springer is the one to keep because of Correa’s fragility. You could give up some prospects now if you know that in the off-season your going to trade Correa with 2 years to play and can restock the system with that deal.

Not saying that’s the plan or what I’d necessarily do, just saying that the organization I’m sure is looking at this deal for how it impacts us now and the future.


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I didn't know Springer had told the team he wanted to re-sign?

I love the idea of keeping Springer if possible, though, even if it means there is no $$ for Correa.

[TerryPuhl21]

I didn't know Springer had told the team he wanted to re-sign?

I love the idea of keeping Springer if possible, though, even if it means there is no $$ for Correa.

He hasn’t to my knowledge, but if it was me and I could only keep one of them, George is my priority.


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[JimR]

He hasn’t to my knowledge, but if it was me and I could only keep one of them, George is my priority.


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He told the world he does not want to be anywhere else, and he teasingly hinted discussions had occurred.

[juliogotay]

He told the world he does not want to be anywhere else, and he teasingly hinted discussions had occurred.

I hadn't heard him say that. That's great.

[JimR]

Man, I hate the waiting around and silence.

[Jacksonian]

Not a reason to turn down Syndegard.

Crazy really. There are FOUR CFs on this team now. We won the WS with a utility infielder playing LF. I hope Luhnow is not as timid as you think he is.

I think he's demonstrated a desire to hoard talent.

They did.  And in game 5 they needed the last guy on the bench, Fisher, to run home very quickly.  If the current rules had been in place in 2017 there would have been no Maybin to play in that game.  It would have been Fisher and ? after Marisnick's injury.  Hence my thought that Luhnow won't want to give up both Tucker and Fisher this season.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

I think he's demonstrated a desire to hoard talent.

They did.  And in game 5 they needed the last guy on the bench, Fisher, to run home very quickly.  If the current rules had been in place in 2017 there would have been no Maybin to play in that game.  It would have been Fisher and ? after Marisnick's injury.  Hence my thought that Luhnow won't want to give up both Tucker and Fisher this season.

You don't think McCann would have scored from second?

/kidding/

[Jacksonian]

You don't think McCann would have scored from second?

/kidding/

More to the point I'm not sure Aledmys Diaz scores on that play.

[JimR]

I think he's demonstrated a desire to hoard talent.

They did.  And in game 5 they needed the last guy on the bench, Fisher, to run home very quickly.  If the current rules had been in place in 2017 there would have been no Maybin to play in that game.  It would have been Fisher and ? after Marisnick's injury.  Hence my thought that Luhnow won't want to give up both Tucker and Fisher this season.

Straw was not on that team.

[JimR]

More to the point I'm not sure Aledmys Diaz scores on that play.

Oh, come on. McCann would not have scored but the other position players would. Two out, runner at second leaving on contact. The play was not close. Diaz would have scored.

If a Synderdard deal fails because Luhnow insists on keeping Fisher just in case, I will scream.

[jaklewein]

Oh, come on. McCann would not have scored but the other position players would. Two out, runner at second leaving on contact. The play was not close. Diaz would have scored.

If a Synderdard deal fails because Luhnow insists on keeping Fisher just in case, I will scream.

I have confidence Luhnow will get a deal done.  He knows the team may never be as strong in future seasons as this one is now.  As we move forward, Verlander will be a year older, Cole will mostly be leaving, etc., etc.  Now is the time to sacrifice the future for the present IMO.

[JimR]

I have confidence Luhnow will get a deal done.  He knows the team may never be as strong in future seasons as this one is now.  As we move forward, Verlander will be a year older, Cole will mostly be leaving, etc., etc.  Now is the time to sacrifice the future for the present IMO.

Yep. You never worry about tomorrow (Ronnie? WTF?) when you have a chance to win today.

Maybe Cole leaves; I think he may not.

Pretty funny Jacksonian and I are arguing about Fisher as a pinch runner in the context of a Syndergard deal.

[toddthebod]

This Astros team is the best hitting team I've ever seen.

They need another starting pitcher.  They desperately need bullpen help.

This is a win-now team for this season and the next.  Luhnow knows that.  He'll get a deal done. 

[Fredia]

its worse than waiting for your grandchild to be born... you can talk all you want  but you have no control.  In the end tho everything is an amazing result.

[Jacksonian]

Pretty funny Jacksonian and I are arguing about Fisher as a pinch runner in the context of a Syndergard deal.

Just another reason to love this place.

[jaklewein]

Just another reason to love this place.

+1

[MusicMan]

Pretty funny Jacksonian and I are arguing about Fisher as a pinch runner in the context of a Syndergard deal.

If arguing about the 25th man is a good sign, how good is arguing about the 30th?


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[VirtualBob]

If arguing about the 25th man is a good sign, how good is arguing about the 30th?

+1

[TerryPuhl21]

The newest report out says that while the Twins and the Astros have been the most aggressive pursuers of Noah Syndergaard, the Mets do not feel that either team has the quality major league ready pitching prospect that they are looking for in a return. The Yankees, Padres, Braves and Rays are all viewed by the Mets as better trading partners for Noah Syndargaard per Joel Sherman and Andy Martino. The Astros however are still in the market for Zack Wheeler and will be watching his start tonight very closely as will the Yankees.


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[JimR]

The newest report out says that while the Twins and the Astros have been the most aggressive pursuers of Noah Syndergaard, the Mets do not feel that either team has the quality major league ready pitching prospect that they are looking for in a return. The Yankees, Padres, Braves and Rays are all viewed by the Mets as better trading partners for Noah Syndargaard per Joel Sherman and Andy Martino. The Astros however are still in the market for Zack Wheeler and will be watching his start tonight very closely as will the Yankees.


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They want pitching? So do we.

Thought they wanted a hitter. Can you believe anything the pundits write?”

[Jacksonian]

They want pitching? So do we.

Thought they wanted a hitter. Can you believe anything the pundits write?”

The only thing I believe at this point is that the Astros scout everywhere. 

[TerryPuhl21]

They want pitching? So do we.

Thought they wanted a hitter. Can you believe anything the pundits write?”

Probably not, but still interesting to see all of the speculation.


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[MusicMan]

They want pitching? So do we.

Thought they wanted a hitter. Can you believe anything the pundits write?”

Anything you hear in a poker game or trade talks is pure bullshit.


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[moriartp]

One executive who has communicated with the Mets said, “They are definitely trading Syndergaard.”

...

The Astros have most fervently pursued Syndergaard, but the Mets’ current stance is that only the Braves and Padres, both with stacked systems, are ideally positioned to obtain the righty.

Link

[JimR]

If they require a MLB-ready pitcher, we are toast.

[austro]

If they require a MLB-ready pitcher, we are toast.

Give 'em Sneed.

[TerryPuhl21]

Zack Wheeler wasn’t exactly shut down in his first start back from injury. Doubt the Mets can get much in the way of high quality for him.

Edit: The reviews were apparently good even though he gave up 3 runs in less than 6 innings. Fastball was consistently at 97, he walked 1 and struck out 7.


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[Navin R Johnson]

Astros need bullpen help pretty badly too.   I’d put their top three in the rotation up against anyone, in terms on the BP we have to be near the bottom of playoff contenders

[JimR]

Astros need bullpen help pretty badly too.   I’d put their top three in the rotation up against anyone, in terms on the BP we have to be near the bottom of playoff contenders

Pressly and Osuna have been great, but they are getting tired.

[doyce7]

Astros need bullpen help pretty badly too.   I’d put their top three in the rotation up against anyone, in terms on the BP we have to be near the bottom of playoff contenders

Check out Boston, Washington, Atlanta, Chicago, Minnesota, or even the Dodgers bullpens lots of teams need bullpen help. Every team other than the Yankees really.

Looking at the stats, the Astros have the 3rs lowest bullpen ERA in MLB behind only Cleveland and Tampa

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[Navin R Johnson]

I’m sure some is recency bias, but I just don’t have a great feeling with anyone out of the pen right now.  Jim’s right about them being tired and over worked. I just hope they  add some life to the pen along with a starter.

[austro]

I’m sure some is recency bias, but I just don’t have a great feeling with anyone out of the pen right now.  Jim’s right about them being tired and over worked. I just hope they  add some life to the pen along with a starter.

I wouldn't mind bullpen help, but adding another reliable starter would in itself provide bullpen help by eliminating the seemingly constant need to have the pen eat up 4 or 5 innings a couple of times a week.

[JimR]

I wouldn't mind bullpen help, but adding another reliable starter would in itself provide bullpen help by eliminating the seemingly constant need to have the pen eat up 4 or 5 innings a couple of times a week.

The top three starters often only go 6. James is hurt. Peacock is hurt. Devo and Rondon too often are ineffective. McHugh has been hurt and is in love with the sweeping slider. Sneed is a raw rookie.That leaves Harris, Pressly, and Osuna in high leverage games. Besides the wear and tear, they cannot be perfect.

Urquidy has done his part and did so last night. We must have a starter.

[austro]

The top three starters often only go 6.

Yes, a "normal" night usually means 3 innings of relief. And if anything goes wrong...

[juliogotay]

Any good BP arm acquired is liable to be tired too. Kinda comes with the territory.

[JimR]

Any good BP arm acquired is liable to be tired too. Kinda comes with the territory.

Exactly right. Tied to the rise of pitch counting and the demise of complete games. A fan unfortunately must accept the occasional meltdown of even a very good bullpen.

[JimR]

Report I just read says the Astros are “pessimistic” about getting  Syndergard. Did not mention any other player they are in on. Lots of the same old guessing about players the Astros might want.

We need an insider here. Published reports guess and speculate.

[juliogotay]

Pressly and Osuna have been great, but they are getting tired.

Yes. I didn't see this myself but I saw on another board that Hinch said Pressley didn't look right after last night's game. That can mean a lot of things of course but the first thing I think about is pain or injury.

[JimR]

Yes. I didn't see this myself but I saw on another board that Hinch said Pressley didn't look right after last night's game. That can mean a lot of things of course but the first thing I think about is pain or injury.

Hinch was not vague. He was talking about Pressly’s right knee injury which shelved him for a few games.

[juliogotay]

Hinch was not vague. He was talking about Pressly’s right knee injury which shelved him for a few games.

Ah, thanks. I didn't hear it myself but read it with no explanation.

[TerryPuhl21]

The A’s just picked up Jake Diekman.


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[JimR]

Ah, thanks. I didn't hear it myself but read it with no explanation.

Probably the question was about the knee.

[TerryPuhl21]

JP Morosi reporting that after last night’s loss in Miami, the Diamondbacks have decided to sell off and will listen on anyone.


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[MusicMan]

JP Morosi reporting that after last night’s loss in Miami, the Diamondbacks have decided to sell off and will listen on anyone.


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Robbie Ray, come on down.


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[TerryPuhl21]

Robbie Ray, come on down.


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Yeah, I’d like to have him and he should be cheaper than others we have been linked to. I’ve kind of felt all along that he is the player we end up with.


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[TerryPuhl21]

Ken Rosenthal says the Astros are mounting a serious push for Marcus Stroman after deciding not to meet the asking price for Syndergaard.

Astros and Blue Jays have a recent trading history so this wouldn’t be surprising.


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[JimR]

Ken Rosenthal says the Astros are mounting a serious push for Marcus Stroman after deciding not to meet the asking price for Syndergaard.

Astros and Blue Jays have a recent trading history so this wouldn’t be surprising.


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What was the price?

[Ron Brand]

Ken Rosenthal says the Astros are mounting a serious push for Marcus Stroman...

Rosenthal and 'sources' say Stroman is 'among the leading targets' of the Dodgers.

[JimR]

Rosenthal and 'sources' say Stroman is 'among the leading targets' of the Dodgers.

and all the other teams needing pitching.

[TerryPuhl21]

What was the price?

It wasn’t reported. One of those things we probably won’t know until well after the fact.


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[JimR]

It wasn’t reported. One of those things we probably won’t know until well after the fact.


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Widely reported they want a major league ready pitcher. Ain’t one in RR unless they want Whitley despite his issues.

[Snuffy]

Tucker had a slam tonight; he was 1 for 4 AB. 
Visiting RR leading by a familiar score, 8-2, as they bat in the top of the 9th

[MusicMan]

What was the price?

Rose that says the Astros backed off when the Mets insisted on Tucker


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[JimR]

Rose that says the Astros backed off when the Mets insisted on Tucker


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Fuck.

[austro]

Rose that says the Astros backed off when the Mets insisted on Tucker

That guy had better come up and hit about 40 homers next year.

[JimR]

That guy had better come up and hit about 40 homers next year.

Total bs to regard him as untouchable. Doesn’t Reddick have another year. Are we going to trade him and give Tucker his position?  We gave Tucker LF, and he did not hit.

I cannot believe Luhnow wants Tucker (in AAA!) more than Syndergard. Maybe his position will soften before Wednesday. Maybe he is trying to make the Mets blink. Seems to me they are in the superior position, but what do I know?

I could accept we had no chance because they wanted a MLB-ready pitcher. But if Tucker winds up blocking this deal because he is untouchable, someone is crazy-me or the Brain Trust.

[jaklewein]

Total bs to regard him as untouchable. Doesn’t Reddick have another year. Are we going to trade him and give Tucker his position?  We gave Tucker LF, and he did not hit.

I cannot believe Luhnow wants Tucker (in AAA!) more than Syndergard. Maybe his position will soften before Wednesday. Maybe he is trying to make the Mets blink. Seems to me they are in the superior position, but what do I know?

I could accept we had no chance because they wanted a MLB-ready pitcher. But if Tucker winds up blocking this deal because he is untouchable, someone is crazy-me or the Brain Trust.

Relax, this is all part of negotiations in my opinion. All teams that are selling are going to ask for the moon, but as the deadline gets closer I they will lessen their stances. Luhnow’s job is to make them think there is no way they can get Tucker so that when he finally offers him in a deal it will get done. Otherwise he tells them that he’s going to package Tucker in another deal to another team. This will put the pressure on that team to make the deal IMO.

[austro]

Total bs to regard him as untouchable. Doesn’t Reddick have another year. Are we going to trade him and give Tucker his position?  We gave Tucker LF, and he did not hit.

I cannot believe Luhnow wants Tucker (in AAA!) more than Syndergard. Maybe his position will soften before Wednesday. Maybe he is trying to make the Mets blink. Seems to me they are in the superior position, but what do I know?

I could accept we had no chance because they wanted a MLB-ready pitcher. But if Tucker winds up blocking this deal because he is untouchable, someone is crazy-me or the Brain Trust.

Agree 100%.

[austro]

Relax, this is all part of negotiations in my opinion. All teams that are selling are going to ask for the moon, but as the deadline gets closer I they will lessen their stances. Luhnow’s job is to make them think there is no way they can get Tucker so that when he finally offers him in a deal it will get done. Otherwise he tells them that he’s going to package Tucker in another deal to another team. This will put the pressure on that team to make the deal IMO.

I hope you're right.

[JimR]

Relax, this is all part of negotiations in my opinion. All teams that are selling are going to ask for the moon, but as the deadline gets closer I they will lessen their stances. Luhnow’s job is to make them think there is no way they can get Tucker so that when he finally offers him in a deal it will get done. Otherwise he tells them that he’s going to package Tucker in another deal to another team. This will put the pressure on that team to make the deal IMO.

Oh, hey, I understand all that, and I do understand negotiations. Precisely why I added the “maybes.” I also know Luhnow has been extremely reluctant to give up elite prospects, even to the point of trying to hold on to Perez(?) until the last minute in the JV deal. I think we are in the same spot we were then-the right deal can mean another WS.

I want to believe he will not hold on to Tucker at the expense of Syndergard.

[geezerdonk]

In Luhnow We Trust. If the report is true that he is holding on to Tucker at the expense of Noah S., and the that is a big if, that is part of the negotiations as some have pointed out. The longer he holds out on Tucker, the more it makes the Mets want him. It is a variation of the briar patch ploy. “Please don’t make me put Tucker in this deal, please.”

[JimR]

In Luhnow We Trust. If the report is true that he is holding on to Tucker at the expense of Noah S., and the that is a big if, that is part of the negotiations as some have pointed out. The longer he holds out on Tucker, the more it makes the Mets want him. It is a variation of the briar patch ploy. “Please don’t make me put Tucker in this deal, please.”

As I said, I get the nuances of negotiating. I also know lots of teams want him, and playing games too long is dangerous. Could be-and this thought drives me nuts-they want to keep Tucker no matter what.

[TerryPuhl21]

If he is truly going to keep Tucker and not deal him, we will most likely settle for crumbs at the table. Let’s hope this is just Luhnow’s negotiation prowess at work.

I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t believe that you get Stroman or Syndergaard without Tucker going in the deal. We don’t have a “top” young pitcher to deal (unless teams consider JBB elite) so he will have to be the headliner.

I think we may could get Ray without Tucker but even then, if I’m Arizona, he’s the ask and the D’Backs don’t have to move Ray since they control him another year. They have the leverage.

It is a seller’s market and pretty much everyone is going to have to overpay to get what little impact pitching is out there.


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[Kit]

Ken Rosenthal says the Astros are mounting a serious push for Marcus Stroman after deciding not to meet the asking price for Syndergaard.

Astros and Blue Jays have a recent trading history so this wouldn’t be surprising.


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Agreed, and think of the marketing A-Strohman!

[Navin R Johnson]

WTF?

Source: #BlueJays, #Mets in agreement on Marcus Stroman trade, pending exchange of medical information. @MLB @MLBNetwork

[Navin R Johnson]

W T F.

Marcus Stroman has been traded to the New York Mets, source confirms to ESPN.

[Craig]

W T F.

Marcus Stroman has been traded to the New York Mets, source confirms to ESPN.

Maybe they're flipping him? Who knows with the fucking Stem.

[Navin R Johnson]

I guess the good news is, we won’t have to face him in the playoffs now.

[The Spleen]

I guess the good news is, we won’t have to face him in the playoffs now.

I'd be thrilled if we do.

[moriartp]

I guess the good news is, we won’t have to face him in the playoffs now.

Might also change their demands for Syndergaard now that they've got some MLB-ready pitching.

[austro]

Maybe this is the way the Mets are getting the major league-ready pitcher they want in order to let Syndergaard go (in a separate deal).

[hostros7]

Thor is controller for longer than stro. Mets-Ing


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[TerryPuhl21]

It will be interesting to see what the Mets gave up.


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[Navin R Johnson]

Ken Rosenthal
@Ken_Rosenthal

On #BlueJays’ return for Stroman: Triple A RHP Anthony Kay was #Mets’ first-round pick out of UConn in 2016. Class A RHP Simeon Woods Richardson was their second rounder out of Kempner (Tx.) H.S. in ‘18.

[Navin R Johnson]

That's the Mets #4 and #6th rated prospects

Neither are top 100 prospects

[Navin R Johnson]

Astros comp would be J.B. Bukauskas and Abreu.

[doyce7]

I had read reports that the Mets were looking to move Syndergaard and use part of what they get to trade for Stroman. I didn't believe it. Doesn't make any sense to me

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[TerryPuhl21]

Astros comp would be J.B. Bukauskas and Abreu.

Is JBB considered a top 100 prospect?


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[doyce7]

Is JBB considered a top 100 prospect?


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He's just as close or closer than those Mets guys.

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[TerryPuhl21]

He's just as close or closer than those Mets guys.

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That’s what I was thinking. I think I would have given JBB and Abreu for Stroman. Now , I guess it is possible that Luhnow did offer that and the Jays didn’t like JBB and Abreu as much.


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[geezerdonk]

Sergio Romo to Minnesota.

[Fredia]

the silence is way to loud

[JimR]

WTF?

Source: #BlueJays, #Mets in agreement on Marcus Stroman trade, pending exchange of medical information. @MLB @MLBNetwork

What?

[JimR]

What?

So now they trade Syndergard? The Mets getting Stroman is crazy.

[Bench]

So now they trade Syndergard? The Mets getting Stroman is crazy.

The people I know who follow the Mets closely seek to think this move cements the fact that Syndergaard will be traded.

[JimR]

The people I know who follow the Mets closely seek to think this move cements the fact that Syndergaard will be traded.

Seems like it to me. Why would the Mets do this?

Ok, maybe I am understanding. Here is the pitcher they wanted/needed. Now they can trade Syndergard to Houston or somebody without getting an MLB- ready pitcher in return.

[MusicMan]

Why would the Mets do this?

That’s been the question for years.


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[VirtualBob]

Seems like it to me. Why would the Mets do this?

Sort of a two-part approach to a three-way deal?  They can now trade Snydergard for Tucker & Fisher and a box of bolts and declare success.

[TeeJoe]

Sort of a two-part approach to a three-way deal?  They can now trade Snydergard for Tucker & Fisher and a box of bolts and declare success.

That would make more sense as an explanation than them thinking that after sweeping the Pirates they're now one starter away from winning it all.

[hostros7]

That would make more sense as an explanation than them thinking that after sweeping the Pirates they're now one starter away from winning it all.

But, then again, it doesn’t because Noah has two years of arb. left and Stroman only has one.


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[JimR]

That would make more sense as an explanation than them thinking that after sweeping the Pirates they're now one starter away from winning it all.

Man, I am hoping this.

[JimR]

Hey, y’all who know insiders, are we likely to take the untouchable label off of Tucker. They way seems paved for us to get Syndergard if we do, and out Stroman alternative appears gone.

[TeeJoe]

But, then again, it doesn’t because Noah has two years of arb. left and Stroman only has one.


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Trying to understand the Mets getting Stroman...co-worker was joking that since most contenders are in the market for pitching the Mets are making the smart business move to corner the market for said commodities.

[juliogotay]

just found this interesting regarding Mets' pitchers that may be available and what the asking price may be for both.

               W-L      ERA    GS     IP         K      WHIP 
Thor       7-5      4.33     20  126.2    126   1.263

Wheeler 7-6     4.71     20   124.1    137   1.271

Thor has another year of club control though which is, of course, huge in the equation.

[doyce7]

just found this interesting regarding Mets' pitchers that may be available and what the asking price may be for both.

               W-L      ERA    GS     IP         K      WHIP 
Thor       7-5      4.33     20  126.2    126   1.263

Wheeler 7-6     4.71     20   124.1    137   1.271

Thor has another year of club control though which is, of course, huge in the equation.

Thor actually has 2 years of control beyond this year

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[BUWebguy]

Syndegaard's reaction to the Stroman deal:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2847515-mets-noah-syndergaard-posts-meme-changes-twitter-bio-amid-trade-rumors

[TeeJoe]

Here's a report of Stroman's supposed reaction to the news...
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-marcus-stroman-wasnt-happy-he-was-traded-to-a-team-out-of-the-race-163735394.html

[Bench]

Jordan Lyles to the Brewers.

[BUWebguy]

Jordan Lyles to the Brewers.

For Cody Ponce, a 25-year-old RP at AA who was Milwaukee's #25 prospect.

[Bench]

Jason Vargas to the Phillies.

[moriartp]

Jason Vargas to the Phillies.

Joe Sheehan: "Maybe the Mets really are going for it."

[JimR]

Joe Sheehan: "Maybe the Mets really are going for it."

Ouch

[geezerdonk]

Going for what?

[MusicMan]

Going for what?

The second wild card, or maybe a nice pastrami on rye.


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[chuck]

I'm happy to know that Vargas is leaving New York for a place with a tamer media and fan base, one that won't have him so on edge, nervous sort that he is.

[geezerdonk]

I don't understand how trading Vargas for a AA catcher gets them closer to obtaining either.

[JimR]

Going for what?

Addition by subtraction is the way I read it.

[JimR]

Too quiet today.

[Navin R Johnson]

Yes it is, been traveling all day and was hoping to come here to read all sorts of speculation.....instead crickets.

[TerryPuhl21]

Yes it is, been traveling all day and was hoping to come here to read all sorts of speculation.....instead crickets.

Only thing I’ve seen tonight is from Jon Heyman of MLB Network. Astros, Brewers and Yankees in “active talks” with D-Backs about Ray.


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[doyce7]

Reporter, so grain of salt and all that.

Mark Feinsand tweeted

"I've heard some executives question whether the Mets will actually move Syndergaard by Wednesday, and the same for the Indians and Bauer. One GM I spoke with expects both to be traded and -- here's the fun part -- he tabs the Yankees and Astros as frontrunners to land Bauer."

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[JimR]

Oh, my.

[BUWebguy]

Rosenthal this morning:

Two sources said Monday that the Astros were working hard to acquire Mets right-hander Zack Wheeler, though no deal appeared close. The Athletics, Rays and Braves are among the other clubs that have shown varying interest in Wheeler, who, like Bumgarner, is a potential free agent.

https://theathletic.com/1105781/2019/07/30/rosenthal-the-indians-are-getting-tempted-zack-wheelers-fit-with-the-astros-the-market-for-edwin-diaz/

[JimR]

Nothing on Syndergard, and Luhnow is doing his usual good job of laying silently in the weeds.

[TerryPuhl21]

A new report from Ken Rosenthal and Andy Martino says that the Astros are considered the favorite to land Zack wheeler. One unnamed rival executive was quoted as saying he expects the Astros to land the right hander.


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[Navin R Johnson]

I’d be fine with wheeler, assuming we aren’t giving up much for a rental.  I’d really like them to land an impact BP arm too though.

[TerryPuhl21]

New report says Astros are talking to the Orioles about outfielder Trey Mancini. Didn’t see that coming. If we acquire Mancini, who is controllable thru 2022, I wonder if it could mean he is an outfield replacement for Tucker and we are about to move Kyle? Or he could be a replacement for Springer if we don’t sign him.


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[Knoxbanedoodle]

New report says Astros are talking to the Orioles about outfielder Trey Mancini. Didn’t see that coming. If we acquire Mancini, who is controllable thru 2022, I wonder if it could mean he is an outfield replacement for Tucker and we are about to move Kyle? Or he could be a replacement for Springer if we don’t sign him.


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Maybe he's a piece the Mets want for Syndergaard.

[juliogotay]

Maybe he's a piece the Mets want for Syndergaard.

I like the way you think.

[TerryPuhl21]

Maybe he's a piece the Mets want for Syndergaard.

Great point Knox.


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[JimR]

You guys who read and listen to every word of these reports must be dizzy by now. A few days ago it was “the Mets are going to extend Wheeler and trade Syndergard.” Today it is “the Mets will trade Wheeler and keep Syndergard.” Now our resident Town Crier says we want an OFer.  Wow. I cannot keep up so I try to stay away from the national “experts.” Until a trade is announced, it is all smoke, mirrors, misinformation meant to deceive, and subterfuge.

We have a couple of folks with access to insiders. Waiting to hear from them.

[doyce7]

You guys who read and listen to every word of these reports must be dizzy by now. A few days ago it was “the Mets are going to extend Wheeler and trade Syndergard.” Today it is “the Mets will trade Wheeler and keep Syndergard.” Now our resident Town Crier says we want an OFer.  Wow. I cannot keep up so I try to stay away from the national “experts.” Until a trade is announced, it is all smoke, mirrors, misinformation meant to deceive, and subterfuge.

We have a couple of folks with access to insiders. Waiting to hear from them.

It's mostly just for the fun of it for me. I know 90% of it is bullshit but it's something to think/talk about until there is something real to discuss

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[toddthebod]

I like the idea of trading with the orioles.  They obviously know the Astros organization and are just into the start of their rebuilding process so they would probably we willing to take lower level prospects for Mancini.  So if the idea is trading for Mancini to send to the Mets as part of the package for Syndergaard, that would be great out of the box thinking by Luhnow and company.  Or if the idea is to trade Tucker to the Mets and use Mancini as a replacement, I'm okay with that as well, although it makes less sense unless the Astros are also going to trade Reddick (which I can't really see happening).  But the Braves are looking for an outfielder and Reddick makes a lot of sense for them so who knows.   

[TerryPuhl21]

It's mostly just for the fun of it for me. I know 90% of it is bullshit but it's something to think/talk about until there is something real to discuss

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Agree. It’s all fun speculation. And true, probably 90% of it is smoke and mirrors but at least today hasn’t been boring.


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[subnuclear]

I’d be fine with wheeler, assuming we aren’t giving up much for a rental.  I’d really like them to land an impact BP arm too though.

Is Wheeler expected to pitch better than his 4.71 ERA seems to indicate?

[TerryPuhl21]

Is Wheeler expected to pitch better than his 4.71 ERA seems to indicate?

Some say yes. The Mets defensively are one of the worst teams in baseball so leaving there by itself should uptick his numbers.


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[MusicMan]

Is Wheeler expected to pitch better than his 4.71 ERA seems to indicate?

Cole had a 4.26 before arriving here. Just saying.


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[JimR]

Some say yes. The Mets defensively are one of the worst teams in baseball so leaving there by itself should uptick his numbers.


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That would make the runs unearned. Makes no sense to bring in a rental not named Beltran or Johnson if there are alternatives.

[JimR]

Cole had a 4.26 before arriving here. Just saying.


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We had Cole for ST and a full season. 4.71 needs an immediate turnaround.

[Bench]

That would make the runs unearned. Makes no sense to bring in a rental not named Beltran or Johnson if there are alternatives.

Not errors - they just can't get to the balls that good infield defenses turn into outs.

[MRaup]

Not errors - they just can't get to the balls that good infield defenses turn into outs.

If you've got a plodding shortstop, a sluggo 3rd baseman, and a bunch of Jack Custs playing the corners in the outfield, there will be plenty of earned unearned runs.

[BUWebguy]

Is Wheeler expected to pitch better than his 4.71 ERA seems to indicate?

Funny you should ask:

So what is an acquiring team getting in Zack Wheeler? What can be expected of Wheeler over the final two months of the season? 1. The stuff is elite. ... 2. The slider and curveball could perhaps be deployed differently. ... 3. The results haven’t been there in part due to poor distribution. ... 4. Wheeler routinely works deep into games.

https://theathletic.com/1101694/2019/07/29/if-a-team-trades-for-zack-wheeler-what-exactly-is-it-getting/

[Bench]

Is Wheeler expected to pitch better than his 4.71 ERA seems to indicate?

Here's a long and detailed analysis by the crawfish boxes giving the statistical argument for why he would be expected to perform better as an Astro than a Met (beyond the obvious moral superiority).

As for luck:

So why is his ERA inflated? Well, he’s had a fairly perfect storm of bad luck. His LOB% is at 65.1%, a stat that basically every pitcher in baseball will end up in the 70-72% range, a stat that has shown to not be in the control of a pitcher. Higher K/9 pitchers will generally be slightly towards the higher end, and Wheeler would fit that bill and is well below where one would expect.

That’s a start, but there’s more. His HR/FB is at 14.1%, a stat that basically averages for every pitcher in the 8-12% range, and Wheeler’s career 11% fits that logic. Again, Fangraphs found this statistic to largely be out of the control of a pitcher as to what %, especially without a significant change in his batted ball profile.

His BABIP (.313) and xwOBA also show indications of poor luck. Additionally, Wheeler currently is throwing his highest K/9, lowest BB/9, and averaging 6.1 IP per start so far this year.

And then of course, his spin rate and arsenal meet the Strom recipe for success.

[jaklewein]

Bukauskas did us no favors last night.  5 walks in 4-2/3 IP.  He had a great start last time out.  Should have sat him ahead of the deadline (only half joking).

[Jacksonian]

So far today, from various places I've heard or read, Syndergaard, Wheeler, Minor, Mancini, Ray, and Boyd.  The Astros have scouts everywhere, and I believe Luhnow and company are making calls left and right.  That's part of creating the smokescreen.  He is the master of it.

[JimR]

Not errors - they just can't get to the balls that good infield defenses turn into outs.

If that is the Mets and Wheeler, I get it. Is it? Is it errors?

[MRaup]

If that is the Mets and Wheeler, I get it. Is it? Is it errors?

https://www.newsday.com/sports/columnists/anthony-rieber/mets-defensive-metrics-1.34340685

[TerryPuhl21]

https://www.newsday.com/sports/columnists/anthony-rieber/mets-defensive-metrics-1.34340685

That is a great article with good info. Thanks for the link.

Just a bit more. Wheeler has a FIP of 3.65. By comparison, Thor’s is also 3.65, Verlander’s is 3.94 and Cole’s is 3.06. A lot of things are pointing to his being a better pitcher than his ERA indicates. My biggest concern would be his health.


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[Jacksonian]

https://www.newsday.com/sports/columnists/anthony-rieber/mets-defensive-metrics-1.34340685

I had to stop reading after the first paragraph because every sentence was translating in my mind as "Fuck the steM." 

[Fredia]

so little time left. no last minute trades this year....auggg

[JimR]

https://www.newsday.com/sports/columnists/anthony-rieber/mets-defensive-metrics-1.34340685

Thanks

[Ebby Calvin]

I'll chime in with the rampant speculation.

[Rosenthal] The #Mets scratched Ervin Santana from his Triple A start today. Syndergaard scheduled to pitch for them in majors tonight. Not known whether two are linked.

[TerryPuhl21]

Tim Brown of Yahoo sports says we are once again talking to Giants about Bumgarner.

This is crazy!!


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[Ebby Calvin]

Also it's being tweeted that the Stems have asked in return for Thor:
Twins - Buxton
Sox - Benintendi

So they're probably asking for Altuve.

[jaklewein]

Also it's being tweeted that the Stems have asked in return for Thor:
Twins - Buxton
Sox - Benintendi

So they're probably asking for Altuve.

Fuck the Mets!

[doyce7]

Also it's being tweeted that the Stems have asked in return for Thor:
Twins - Buxton
Sox - Benintendi

So they're probably asking for Altuve.

Doesn't hurt to ask I guess

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[doyce7]

Also it's being tweeted that the Stems have asked in return for Thor:
Twins - Buxton
Sox - Benintendi

So they're probably asking for Altuve.

Thinking about it some more, if I'm the Twins... I might do that trade

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[chuck]

Also it's being tweeted that the Stems have asked in return for Thor:
Twins - Buxton
Sox - Benintendi

So they're probably asking for Altuve.

Maybe throw in Springer and Alvarez to sweeten the pot a little.

Those people are fucking idiots. I'm sure many of you saw somewhere that another GM said what they were doing is like a kindergartener's finger painting.

[Snuffy]

https://www.newsday.com/sports/columnists/anthony-rieber/mets-defensive-metrics-1.34340685

Informative article!  Pathetic defense!

Nod to the 'Stros defense:

Digging deeper, the Mets’ defensive efficiency ratio (DER), according to MLB.com, is .677, which is 27th in baseball. DER is a statistic that measures for every ball hit into the field of play, how likely is the defense to convert that into an out. For comparison’s sake, the Astros are first at .726 and the Rockies are last at .673.

[Waldo]

That would make the runs unearned. Makes no sense to bring in a rental not named Beltran or Johnson if there are alternatives.

Craig Biggio committed just one error in 216 CF starts in 2003-2004.

[MusicMan]

Also it's being tweeted that the Stems have asked in return for Thor:
Twins - Buxton
Sox - Benintendi

So they're probably asking for Altuve.

BVW is a nutcase


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[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Has there ever been a situation where a high-profile player has been traded to a contender, and was boo'd lustily by the fans of the team he was just traded to?  We might find out if Tyler Bauer ends up here.

[toddthebod]

Thinking about it some more, if I'm the Twins... I might do that trade

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I would totally do that trade if I were the Twins. 

[moriartp]

There's so much I don't get about trading for Bauer. In no particular order:

• He's got no emotional control on the field
• He harasses women online, in full public view
• He does shit like writing "Bush did 9/11" on the mound during games
• He's notorious for refusing to listen to his teams' coaching staff, dating at least back to his college years
• He and Cole despise each other from their UCLA days
• He called out the entire Astros organization for doctoring the ball last season
• He's enough of a cancer that Cleveland is thinking about trading him when they're 3 games up in the Wild Card and 2 games out in their division

Is a wicked spin rate really that valuable? I just can't see it happening.

[JimR]

There's so much I don't get about trading for Bauer. In no particular order:

• He's got no emotional control on the field
• He harasses women online, in full public view
• He does shit like writing "Bush did 9/11" on the mound during games
• He's notorious for refusing to listen to his teams' coaching staff, dating at least back to his college years
• He and Cole despise each other from their UCLA days
• He called out the entire Astros organization for doctoring the ball last season
• He's enough of a cancer that Cleveland is thinking about trading him when they're 3 games up in the Wild Card and 2 games out in their division

Is a wicked spin rate really that valuable? I just can't see it happening.

I’m with you. Cannot see how this would work.

[TerryPuhl21]

There's so much I don't get about trading for Bauer. In no particular order:

• He's got no emotional control on the field
• He harasses women online, in full public view
• He does shit like writing "Bush did 9/11" on the mound during games
• He's notorious for refusing to listen to his teams' coaching staff, dating at least back to his college years
• He and Cole despise each other from their UCLA days
• He called out the entire Astros organization for doctoring the ball last season
• He's enough of a cancer that Cleveland is thinking about trading him when they're 3 games up in the Wild Card and 2 games out in their division

Is a wicked spin rate really that valuable? I just can't see it happening.

It could all be about driving up the price for anyone else who might be talking to the Indians. Lots of games being played.


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[Bench]

There's so much I don't get about trading for Bauer. In no particular order:

• He's got no emotional control on the field
• He harasses women online, in full public view
• He does shit like writing "Bush did 9/11" on the mound during games
• He's notorious for refusing to listen to his teams' coaching staff, dating at least back to his college years
• He and Cole despise each other from their UCLA days
• He called out the entire Astros organization for doctoring the ball last season
• He's enough of a cancer that Cleveland is thinking about trading him when they're 3 games up in the Wild Card and 2 games out in their division

Is a wicked spin rate really that valuable? I just can't see it happening.

Counter point: He wanted to file an arbitration number of "either $6.9 million or $6,420,969.69," and then proceeded to make "69 days of giving" donating increments of $420.69 to a charity each day for 68 days followed by a 69th day contribution of $69,420.69.

[chuck]

Counter point: He wanted to file an arbitration number of "either $6.9 million or $6,420,969.69," and then proceeded to make "69 days of giving" donating increments of $420.69 to a charity each day for 68 days followed by a 69th day contribution of $69,420.69.

Huh. So that's why 911truth.org loads a lot faster than it used to.

[MusicMan]

Huh. So that's why 911truth.org loads a lot faster than it used to.

Checking it often?


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