Astros to acquire Gerrit Cole

[TerryPuhl21]

This according to report byJP Morsi. No word yet on what we gave up.


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[Jacksonian]

This according to report byJP Morsi. No word yet on what we gave up.


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Rushing to be first typically means being cabrera'd.

[Curly]

Rushing to be first typically means being cabrera'd.

and Cabrera is a Brave.  Don't be Cabrera'd.

[TerryPuhl21]

New report says Cole is ours for Musgrove and Moran. If that is all Luhnow is a freakin’ genius!!


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[The Third Man]

New report says Cole is ours for Musgrove and Moran. If that is all Luhnow is a freakin’ genius!!


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Michael Feliz and outfielder Jason Martin are part of the deal, as well. The Pirates and Astros have both announced the deal as official. Cole will be a badass #3 starter.

https://twitter.com/astros/status/952332249873244160

[VirtualBob]

Michael Feliz and outfielder Jason Martin are part of the deal, as well. The Pirates and Astros have both announced the deal as official. Cole will be a badass #3 starter.

https://twitter.com/astros/status/952332249873244160

I love it. All 4 of those guys have genuine upside, but all have comparable sin the system or are blocked by better options.

[JimR]

I love it. All 4 of those guys have genuine upside, but all have comparable sin the system or are blocked by better options.

Great trade. Nothing but expendable guys.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Luhnow probably is a genius but that was thievery.

[JimR]

Michael Feliz and outfielder Jason Martin are part of the deal, as well. The Pirates and Astros have both announced the deal as official. Cole will be a badass #3 starter.

https://twitter.com/astros/status/952332249873244160

It will be interesting to see how Hinch lines them up. That depends on McCullers. I also am interested to see if JV, the analytics guys, and Strom make Cole  a better pitcher.

[Curly]

Luhnow gets the golf clap on that one...and I mean the good kind of golf clap.

[NeilT]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clC6cgoh1sU

[TerryPuhl21]

It will be interesting to see how Hinch lines them up. That depends on McCullers. I also am interested to see if JV, the analytics guys, and Strom make Cole  a better pitcher.

+1 Jim.

I think JV could be a big influence on him. McCann as well. Looking forward to spring training.


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[DVauthrin]

It’s really refreshing to see the Astros take a proactive approach to solving future issues.  Keuchel’s a free agent after 2018, and Lunhow, without destroying the farm, gets Gerrit Cole to fill the void if he walks

[Curly]

It’s really refreshing to see the Astros take a proactive approach to solving future issues.  Keuchel’s a free agent after 2018, and Lunhow, without destroying the farm, gets Gerrit Cole to fill the void if he walks

  Keeps the Yankees from getting him too.

[JimR]

  Keeps the Yankees from getting him too.

which the NY Daily News told us was “inevitable.”

[Curly]

which the NY Daily News told us was “inevitable.”

  How dare someone get what is rightfully owed to the Yankees
 

[jaklewein]

Holland is still out there.

[Jose Cruz III]

Love getting Cole. Luhnow pulls it off again. But I gotta admit I was a big Joe Musgrove fan.

[HudsonHawk]

Love getting Cole. Luhnow pulls it off again. But I gotta admit I was a big Joe Musgrove fan.

I liked Musgrove in the pen too.  You can never have too many guys with that kind of arm.  But Cole is solid starter, and as we saw last year, you REALLY can't have too many of those.  It was kind of a no-brainer.  That said, they do need to shore up the pen.  That can't be overlooked, and I'm sure Luhnow and Co have a plan. 

[JimR]

I liked Musgrove in the pen too.  You can never have too many guys with that kind of arm.  But Cole is solid starter, and as we saw last year, you REALLY can't have too many of those.  It was kind of a no-brainer.  That said, they do need to shore up the pen.  That can't be overlooked, and I'm sure Luhnow and Co have a plan.

He was disappointing in the postseason but got three (hard hit) outs in Game 5’s 10th inning. I hope he succeeds in Pittsburgh.

[MusicMan]

He was disappointing in the postseason but got three (hard hit) outs in Game 5’s 10th inning. I hope he succeeds in Pittsburgh.

Also an all around good dude. I’m thrilled with the deal but don’t mean that to disparage any of the guys we dealt.


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[moriartp]

Fangraphs says Cole and the Astros could be a match made in heaven.

[das]

Love getting Cole. Luhnow pulls it off again. But I gotta admit I was a big Joe Musgrove fan.

Me to. That’s the one that stings a little. But, just a little. I keep telling myself that, as a fan of the larger game as a whole, the best trades are the ones that make both teams butter, as long as the other team is not a direct threat. Decent upside for Pittsburgh and that’s ok. Huge upside for the Astros. Like @JimR, I am curious to see how Strom & Co. change Cole.

[mrpink]

I love it. All 4 of those guys have genuine upside, but all have comparable sin the system or are blocked by better options.

This is it exactly.  There was no place for Moran to play and Feliz was out of options.  A lot of Pirates fans are whining online, but I think it will work out well for them too in the long run.

I'm just looking forward to seeing what the RFTL guesses are this year.

[JimR]

Also an all around good dude. I’m thrilled with the deal but don’t mean that to disparage any of the guys we dealt.


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Exactly. All of them helped and seemed to be good people. Musgrove was the most likely to be important in 2018, but Peacock will do just as well or better, imo. Don’t forget Smith and Rondon either.

[austro]

Exactly. All of them helped and seemed to be good people. Musgrove was the most likely to be important in 2018, but Peacock will do just as well or better, imo. Don’t forget Smith and Robson either.

Rondon?

[JimR]

Rondon?

Yes. Autocorrect apparently does not know him.

[juliogotay]

Fangraphs on the Cole deal. https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-astros-might-be-the-perfect-team-for-gerrit-cole/

and Gammons wrote something positive about the Astros. http://www.gammonsdaily.com/peter-gammons-astros-reload-for-2018-run-with-cole-trade/

[Bench]

Fangraphs on the Cole deal. https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-astros-might-be-the-perfect-team-for-gerrit-cole/

and Gammons wrote something positive about the Astros. http://www.gammonsdaily.com/peter-gammons-astros-reload-for-2018-run-with-cole-trade/

Wow.  Gammons has completely forgotten how to write.  That was borderline incoherent, though it did indicate that Verlander is one of Cole's idols.  And Cole has already said that Morton is one of his "great friends" and taught him a lot during the 2015 playoff run.  Cole's stuff + veteran leadership + Strom could be pretty amazing. 

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Wow.  Gammons has completely forgotten how to write.  That was borderline incoherent...

No kidding. That was alarming.

[Craig]

No kidding. That was alarming.

It read to me like he was using speech-to-text and just dictated it, then someone added the links without bothering to proofread any of it.

[Mr. Appropriate]

Fangraphs on the Cole deal. https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-astros-might-be-the-perfect-team-for-gerrit-cole/

and Gammons wrote something positive about the Astros. http://www.gammonsdaily.com/peter-gammons-astros-reload-for-2018-run-with-cole-trade/

Fangraphs article was interesting, thank you. The Gammons article makes English feel like a foreign language.

So this this the best Astros starting rotation ever?
 Oswalt, Pettitte, Clemens,  was pretty good. This one is likely better. Hard to imagine there has been more depth for potential starters.

[MusicMan]

That 2005 rotation carried an inept offense to the World Series. They’re the best until proven otherwise.


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[Mr. Appropriate]

That 2005 rotation carried an inept offense to the World Series. They’re the best until proven otherwise.


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I recall the 2017 pitchers showing up for the Astros in a few of post season games. In my view the 2017 starting pitchers out-preformed the 2015 lineup.  What amazes me is the crazy depth of the Astros starting rotating. This is a formidable, memorable team.

[doyce7]

Fangraphs article was interesting, thank you. The Gammons article makes English feel like a foreign language.

So this this the best Astros starting rotation ever?
 Oswalt, Pettitte, Clemens,  was pretty good. This one is likely better. Hard to imagine there has been more depth for potential starters.

That 2005 rotation carried an inept offense to the World Series. They’re the best until proven otherwise.


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2004 if it was healthy might be better

Oswalt clemens Pettitte Miller is damn good but Pettitte and Miller couldn't stay healthy

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[JimR]

They have to perform, but 2018 on paper is by far the best, and McHugh is #6.

[Fredia]

Is going to be interesting to see how the changes affect the dynamics

[juliogotay]

Is going to be interesting to see how the changes affect the dynamics

Barring injury the 2018 Astros should be very dynamic.

The Pirates sell-off continues with McCutchen rumored to be SF-bound.

[JimR]

Barring injury the 2018 Astros should be very dynamic.

The Pirates sell-off continues with McCutchen rumored to be SF-bound.

Deal now has been announced.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

1980 and 1981 starting rotations were pretty good too.

[Reuben]

That 2005 rotation carried an inept offense to the World Series. They’re the best until proven otherwise.


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Best Trio - 2005 will be hard to beat
Best Rotation - 2005 is dragged down by the regular-season ineptness of Backe (10-8, but a 4.76 ERA), Wandy (10-10, 5.53), and Ezequiel (3-6, 5.67). I'd say 2018 has a good chance to be better.

1980 and 1981 starting rotations were pretty good too.

Ryan (1.69 ERA), Knepper (2.18), Sutton (2.61), Niekro (2.82), and Ruhle (2.91) were pretty incredible in '81.

[juliogotay]

Best Trio - 2005 will be hard to beat
Best Rotation - 2005 is dragged down by the regular-season ineptness of Backe (10-8, but a 4.76 ERA), Wandy (10-10, 5.53), and Ezequiel (3-6, 5.67). I'd say 2018 has a good chance to be better.
Ryan (1.69 ERA), Knepper (2.18), Sutton (2.61), Niekro (2.82), and Ruhle (2.91) were pretty incredible in '81.

I have no doubt the club would have won the WS in '80 if Richard had stayed healthy. Came so close to beating Phlly w/o him and would have taken KC in the Series. One helluva 'pen too.

[JimR]

I have no doubt the club would have won the WS in '80 if Richard had stayed healthy. Came so close to beating Phlly w/o him and would have taken KC in the Series. One helluva 'pen too.

Ditto 2004 if Pettitte had stayed healthy.

[MusicMan]

Ifs and buts, candy and nuts.


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[Astros Fan in Big D]

The talk,  naturally,  has focused on the rotation.

We should bear in mind that the offensive side,  which proved dominant in 17, remains intact.

Health with be key, as always with everything,  but by the time OD comes around  this team should be loaded for bear.

[toddthebod]

We should bear in mind that the offensive side,  which proved dominant in 17, remains intact.

One change -- no more Carlos Beltran.  I'd like to see what Fisher can do if given the full-time job.  But I think that it is still equally likely that the Astros sign Carlos Gonzalez.  If so, I don't know what happens to Fisher. 

[Astros Fan in Big D]

One change -- no more Carlos Beltran.  I'd like to see what Fisher can do if given the full-time job.  But I think that it is still equally likely that the Astros sign Carlos Gonzalez.  If so, I don't know what happens to Fisher.

Good point.  Should have said largely intact.

[JimR]

One change -- no more Carlos Beltran.  I'd like to see what Fisher can do if given the full-time job.  But I think that it is still equally likely that the Astros sign Carlos Gonzalez.  If so, I don't know what happens to Fisher.

Fisher WAS given the full time job after Nori was banished, and he became a whiff machine. That is precise the reason Marwin became the every day postseason LFer, Fisher has been mentioned in trades, and Carlos G. has a contract offer. I have seen enough of Fisher, but maybe Luhnow/Hinch have not.

[NeilT]

Fisher WAS given the full time job after Nori was banished, and he became a whiff machine. That is precise the reason Marwin became the every day postseason LFer, Fisher has been mentioned in trades, and Carlos G. has a contract offer. I have seen enough of Fisher, but maybe Luhnow/Hinch have not.

I thought Marwin was in LF because of Marisnick's injury. 

[austro]

Fisher WAS given the full time job after Nori was banished, and he became a whiff machine. That is precise the reason Marwin became the every day postseason LFer, Fisher has been mentioned in trades, and Carlos G. has a contract offer. I have seen enough of Fisher, but maybe Luhnow/Hinch have not.

I still think it's too early to give up on Fisher. Bregman had a pretty slow start, too, although my memory is that he was still making contact and not striking out as much as Fisher. I'm hopeful that Fisher's still acclimating and will show good improvement this year. However, even in the minors his strikeout numbers were pretty high, so maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part. One of the things l loved most about last year's team was how much they cut down on strikeouts. Put the ball in play and make the other guy do something about it.

[JimR]

I still think it's too early to give up on Fisher. Bregman had a pretty slow start, too, although my memory is that he was still making contact and not striking out as much as Fisher. I'm hopeful that Fisher's still acclimating and will show good improvement this year. However, even in the minors his strikeout numbers were pretty high, so maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part. One of the things l loved most about last year's team was how much they cut down on strikeouts. Put the ball in play and make the other guy do something about it.

If he improves, I hope it is elsewhere. He apparently has value or Luhnow would not be offering him in deals.

[HudsonHawk]

I thought Marwin was in LF because of Marisnick's injury.

Marwin went to LF because Fisher could not handle either offensively or defensively.  Fisher was given a full time job and shit the bed.  He has some skills, and I think he can get better.  But yeah, he should not be holding anyone up or figure prominently in any roster building exercise.   

[JimR]

I thought Marwin was in LF because of Marisnick's injury.

Marisnick did not play LF or any position regularly. He was the 4th OFer and a pinch runner. They had Maybin for two weeks before Marisnick got hurt. They threw Aoki in the deal for Liriano and gave Fisher LF. He could not handle it so Marwin went to LF full time.

[Reuben]

If he improves, I hope it is elsewhere. He apparently has value or Luhnow would not be offering him in deals.

Reports are that Fisher was "off limits" in Cole trade talks.

I'm sure with his pedigree and his speed/power tools, there are plenty of teams out there that would trade something good for him. I don't see why the Astros wouldn't start him back in AAA this year, but I could see him contributing eventually. Springer looked terrible his first couple trips through the league.

[JimR]

Reports are that Fisher was "off limits" in Cole trade talks.

What reports were those? The reports I saw was he was going to Pittsburgh in the trade which wasn’t. I have a difficult time thinking Fisher is untouchable. They offered Carlos Gonzalez a contract!

[NeilT]

Marisnick did not play LF or any position regularly. He was the 4th OFer and a pinch runner. They had Maybin for two weeks before Marisnick got hurt. They threw Aoki in the deal for Liriano and gave Fisher LF. He could not handle it so Marwin went to LF full time.

Marisnick started CF pretty regularly from the Aoki trade to the Maybin trade, probably about 3/4 of the games in July.  Reddick was playing LF and moved to right when Springer moved to CF in September.  Fisher was also playing LF in July, and when Fisher started Springer moved to center.

[JimR]

Marisnick started CF pretty regularly from the Aoki trade to the Maybin trade, probably about 3/4 of the games in July.  Reddick was playing LF and moved to right when Springer moved to CF in September.  Fisher was also playing LF in July, and when Fisher started Springer moved to center.

Aoki was traded at the deadline—July 31? We are talking about August and September for Fisher, I think. Maybin came over on August 31.

ETA: Fisher came up on July 25. Aoki was traded July 31.

[BUWebguy]

What reports were those? The reports I saw was he was going to Pittsburgh in the trade which wasn’t. I have a difficult time thinking Fisher is untouchable. They offered Carlos Gonzalez a contract!

ESPN's Jerry Crasnick:

Similarly, Houston prospects Forrest Whitley, Kyle Tucker, Derek Fisher and Yordan Alvarez were off the table in general manager Jeff Luhnow's discussions with Huntington, sources said.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/22085338/pittsburgh-pirates-trade-rhp-gerrit-cole-houston-astros

[JimR]

ESPN's Jerry Crasnick:http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/22085338/pittsburgh-pirates-trade-rhp-gerrit-cole-houston-astros

Thanks. If they think he is that good, why offer Gonzalez a contract and negotiate in Houston with Bruce? We’ll see. At least he hits LH.

[NeilT]

Aoki was traded at the deadline—July 31? We are talking about August and September for Fisher, I think. Maybin came over on August 31.

ETA: Fisher came up on July 25. Aoki was traded July 31.

That sounds right.  Maybin was picked up August 31 when the A's got Upton.  I think it works out that Marisnick started about 19 games in July, and Fisher or MarGo started about 9.  Once Maybin came over, Marisnick stopped starting.  I think he was injured about the second week of August.  At least for July though he was the primary center fielder.

[JimR]

That sounds right.  Maybin was picked up August 31 when the A's got Upton.  I think it works out that Marisnick started about 19 games in July, and Fisher or MarGo started about 9.  Once Maybin came over, Marisnick stopped starting.  I think he was injured about the second week of August.  At least for July though he was the primary center fielder.

Fisher came up to replace Springer who went on the DL the same day. Marisnick broke  his thumb Sept. 13.

[NeilT]

Fisher came up to replace Springer who went on the DL the same day. Marisnick broke  his thumb Sept. 13.

I guess I got August and July confused.  Marisnick would have started in August, not July, and only started about 4 games after September 2.

[JimR]

I guess I got August and July confused.  Marisnick would have started in August, not July, and only started about 4 games after September 2.

Yep, because Springer was on the DL with the quad injury. Marisnick had a groin  injury in early Sept., then broke his thumb. This team had a lot of injuries.

[NeilT]

Yep, because Springer was on the DL with the quad injury. Marisnick had a groin  injury in early Sept., then broke his thumb. This team had a lot of injuries.

Here's hoping for an injury free 2018.

[JimR]

Here's hoping for an injury free 2018.

No telling how good they could be.

[juliogotay]

It was almost prescient how Maybin was acquired shortly before Marisnick got hurt. They are almost the same guy.

[JimR]

It was almost prescient how Maybin was acquired shortly before Marisnick got hurt. They are almost the same guy.

More evidence (to me) they were not satisfied with Fisher.

[das]

No telling how good they could be.

I’m going to try to be first in line when Race For The Lid submissions open up and will choose a number that, typically, is one of the scrap leftovers for the latecomers.  I’m pretty sure that is the only time that such bravado does not incur the ire of the BBG’s.

[juliogotay]

A Fangraphs writer has a very interesting take on the Cole to Houston deal. https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-gerrit-cole-trade-has-a-perception-problem/

The Cliffs Notes takeaway for me; I think the return package looks worse than it is because the Astros have too many good players. Joe Musgrove, Colin Moran, Michael Feliz, Jason Martin - they're all valuable, they're all potentially useful big-leaguers, but they didn't mean much to the Astros, because the Astros are too stocked.