Which jives with exactly what I said on Aug 1, Luhnow didn't want to give up prospects for Verlander. He was overridden by some folks above him. I had this reaffirmed again this evening. It upsets some people to hear that. Luhnow has been an amazing GM, I hope he is the Astros GM for 20 more years but without the right people pushing the buttons, Verlander isn't an Astros.
I am not going to argue with you or your sources, and Luhnow’s reluctance to trade prospects he considers elite is well-documented. I also know, though, from my excellent source in MLB Luhnow rubs some people in the industry the wrong way, and many take great pleasure in criticisizing him and in trying to make him look bad to others in baseball. He is portrayed as a pedantic intellectual nerd who relies too much on analytics and not the good old boy most longtime MLB types are. I heard my friend constantly belittle his accomplishments up until this year, even after the 2015 playoff run.
I do believe Luhnow had an untouchable list in talking to the Tigers in July. No doubt the pitcher (Perez?) was on it. There also is no doubt from all the many articles I have read the Tigers said no to trading JV at the initial trade deadline and well into August. It also is well-documented the Tigers did not finally decide to tear it down and rebuild until late August when they traded Upton to LAA.
Even your sources may agree, unless they are in my friend’s camp and do not like Luhnow, he was talking with the Tigers about JV for quite some time. Most baseball writers say the Tigers said no consistently to trading their icon face of the franchise. I do not doubt Luhnow said no to Perez (if that is his name) all along. Perhaps you read the recent story about Hinch’s getting ejected in the first inning deliberately on Aug. 31 so he could lobby Luhnow to get Verlander. Luhnow said he’d try, but by late deadline night, the Tigers still were saying no. Again, and I have no personal knowledge, by all accounts the Tigers got the ball rolling a couple of hours from the deadline when Avila called Luhnow to say “ok, we’ll trade him,” and they agreed on the prospects almost immediately.
So two things happened: the Tigers decided to let their icon go, and Luhnow decided to include the high end pitcher in the deal. Whether the impetus came from Crane or Hinch or both or whether Luhnow decided on his own Verlander was an important piece makes no real difference to me. I assume baseball decisions are a team effort involving the GM/front office, the manager, and the owner, and Crane should have the last word on money issues. Luhnow has traded well-regarded prospects in the past to get Gomez and Giles. What does bother me, because I hear it constantly from my friend, is the narrative which goes “Luhnow should get no credit for____. He was not going to do it and had to be directed to make the move.” Fill in the blank with the action or decision at issue. The purpose of the narrative is to belittle and to discredit the man and his accomplishments because the speaker dislikes him.
So, Navin, this is why I am skeptical of the narrative. If Luhnow was reluctant to trade Perez, so what? Some of our fellow posters here at least mildly criticized the deal because of losing him. Luhnow made the deal, gave up the prospects, and look what happened. The only reason I can see to belittle his role in the decision is your sources share my friend’s view of Luhnow. If Luhnow thought the package was too much to give for a 35-year old pitcher who struggled in the first have, again, so what? Go back and read the comments here in July and August about acquiring JV. The consensus was a resounding NO!
I am not questioning the substance of what your sources said. Without knowing who they are or their relationship to and opinion of Luhnow, however, I am skeptical of their “He had to be ordered to do it” narrative for the reasons stated above. I hear the same stuff every spring when I spend 10 days at ST with my MLB scout friend.
