Author Topic: September  (Read 6334 times)

Andyzipp

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September
« on: September 14, 2017, 08:33:40 am »
In 2015, the Astros went 11-16 in September and went from 3 games up on the division to 2.5 games back at the close of business on the 30th.
In 2016, the Astros went 12-15 in September and missed out on a wildcard spot.
In 2017, the Astros are 7-5 in September so far, but the 5 losses have been horrific.

Any thoughts as to if the September performances are a monkey that the team just needs to get off their back by eventually winning a division (part of the maturing process when your core is still pretty young) or if this is more of an issue with Hinch's management style?

I kind of think that it's more of the former, but interested in the conversation.

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Re: September
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2017, 10:11:06 am »
I think the latter has a lot to do with it. The big division lead helps, but Hinch threw that game away last night. Never took it seriously. Other instances of that too. I know he's had to manage an awful lot of injuries, and I appreciate his relatively steady presence, but he doesn't seem to have any sense of urgency late in the year when other teams do. I think that's partially reflected in his late season record.
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Re: September
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2017, 10:43:06 am »
I think the latter has a lot to do with it. The big division lead helps, but Hinch threw that game away last night. Never took it seriously. Other instances of that too. I know he's had to manage an awful lot of injuries, and I appreciate his relatively steady presence, but he doesn't seem to have any sense of urgency late in the year when other teams do. I think that's partially reflected in his late season record.

I agree with whichever poster said it is a mistake to give him this many players. I heard him say he needed to play them all. There is zero sense of urgency, it appears.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 12:03:03 pm by JimR »
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Re: September
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2017, 10:47:42 am »
I think the latter has a lot to do with it. The big division lead helps, but Hinch threw that game away last night. Never took it seriously. Other instances of that too. I know he's had to manage an awful lot of injuries, and I appreciate his relatively steady presence, but he doesn't seem to have any sense of urgency late in the year when other teams do. I think that's partially reflected in his late season record.

Couldn't agree more on the bolded part.  I have to believe most managers would be running Reddick out there every game, regardless of whether there's a lefty on the mound.
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Re: September
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2017, 11:46:32 am »
I think it is some of the latter, combined with the cumulative wear and tear on the bullpen.  This is the third straight year where the bullpen has been very effective to start the year but had to pick up a lot of the slack and has stumbled down the stretch.

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Re: September
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2017, 11:49:11 am »
I agree with whicher poster said it is a mistake to give him this many players. I heard him say he needed to play them all. There is zero sense of urgency, it appears.

Zipp's "managing at the Y" line was pretty spot-on.
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Re: September
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2017, 11:56:25 am »
Zipp's "managing at the Y" line was pretty spot-on.

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Re: September
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2017, 11:58:48 am »
Dad's Club. Snow cones.

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Re: September
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2017, 12:31:44 pm »
A lot of the pitching problems are being caused by people who probably won't be a factor in the postseason (Fiers, a bunch of second and third tier bullpen arms). This is of course aggravated by Hinch managing this week's games like it's spring training. The really scary thing is that the offense has collapsed. Correa and Springer are not the same players after returning from injury. There have also been regressions to the mean. Marwin, obviously. Reddick, to a lesser degree. Even Altuve has been downgraded from "minor deity" in June/July to merely "pretty good." Gattis can't stay healthy. Gurriel is struggling to play through nagging injuries. The bench players and minor leaguers called on to fill the gaps have not gotten it done. I'm not sure how this gets fixed by October. We won't have to watch a lot of these pitchers who've been just eating innings and doing it badly. But there's only one starting lineup, and sending it out in this state against the Corey Klubers of the world is not going to end well.
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Re: September
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2017, 12:36:02 pm »
Point of order, Spleen, Reddick is hitting .403 with a .965 OPS over his last 20 starts.
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Re: September
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2017, 01:50:28 pm »
Point of order, Spleen, Reddick is hitting .403 with a .965 OPS over his last 20 starts.

Yeah, I'm probably still thinking about that horrible funk he went through in August.
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Re: September
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2017, 02:41:17 pm »
What would a playoff roster look like?

1. McCann
2. Gattis

3. Gurriel
4. Altuve
5. Correa
6.  Bregman

7.  Marwin

8.  Maybin
9.  Springer
10. Reddick
11. Marisnick
12.  Beltran

13.  Davis or White?

14.  Keuchel
15.  Verlander
16. McHugh
17. McCullers

18.  Peacock
19.  Devinski
20.  Giles
21.  Martes
22.  Musgrove
23.  Harris
24.  Liriano
25.  Clippard or Gregerson?


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Lefty

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Re: September
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2017, 02:56:50 pm »
I don't leave Morton off.  White over Davis.  If Jake's out long-term, I guess you have to take Fisher?
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Re: September
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2017, 02:59:52 pm »
How about neither Clippard nor Gregerson?
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Re: September
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2017, 03:02:08 pm »
How about neither Clippard nor Gregerson?

How about Clippard and Gregorson and no Davis or White?
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Re: September
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2017, 03:14:51 pm »
I don't leave Morton off.  White over Davis.  If Jake's out long-term, I guess you have to take Fisher?

Agreed re Morton
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Re: September
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2017, 03:24:47 pm »
Don't dismiss the possibility of Stassi or Centeno on a post-season roster.
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Re: September
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2017, 03:29:58 pm »
I don't leave Morton off.  White over Davis.  If Jake's out long-term, I guess you have to take Fisher?

Good call.  That was an omission on my part.  I'd put him in and take out Clippard/Gregerson.
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Re: September
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2017, 03:35:09 pm »
Don't dismiss the possibility of Stassi or Centeno on a post-season roster.

Haven't Kalas/Blum mentioned on recent broadcasts that the Astros might put three, and possibly even four, catchers on the postseason roster?

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Re: September
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2017, 03:38:17 pm »
Don't dismiss the possibility of Stassi or Centeno on a post-season roster.

I like Stassi, frees up Gattis for RH DH/PH stuff, which is what I was thinking of with White (PH at least)
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Re: September
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2017, 03:38:38 pm »
Haven't Kalas/Blum mentioned on recent broadcasts that the Astros might put three, and possibly even four, catchers on the postseason roster?

Four would surprise me, but there's a lot going on in Astrosland these days that surprises me.
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Re: September
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2017, 03:57:16 pm »
1. McCann
2. Gattis
3. Stassi/Centeno

4. Gurriel
5. Altuve
6. Correa
7.  Bregman

8.  Marwin

9.  Maybin
10.  Springer
11. Reddick
12. Marisnick
13.  Beltran


14.  Keuchel
15.  Verlander
16. McHugh
17. McCullers

18.  Giles
19.  Devinski
20.  Musgrove
21.  Martes
22.  Peacock
23.  Morton
24.  Harris
25.  Liriano
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Re: September
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2017, 04:12:42 pm »
I wouldn't be surprised that you nailed it, Bench. And something Luhnow said recently made me think Centeno will be on the roster. Something about being LHed giving him an advantage on a playoff roster.

Andyzipp

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Re: September
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2017, 04:24:26 pm »
I could be completely mis-remembering, or just making it up, but are teams allowed to adjust their 25 man roster each time they advance in the playoffs?

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Re: September
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2017, 04:33:03 pm »
I could be completely mis-remembering, or just making it up, but are teams allowed to adjust their 25 man roster each time they advance in the playoffs?

Yes, they are.
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Lefty

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Re: September
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2017, 04:33:06 pm »
You are correct, Zipp.
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Re: September
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2017, 04:45:21 pm »
Haven't Kalas/Blum mentioned on recent broadcasts that the Astros might put three, and possibly even four, catchers on the postseason roster?

Not four.
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Re: September
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2017, 05:01:52 pm »
Being reported Astros twitter reports that Jake broke his thumb, will have surgery, out 6-8 weeks.

Fuckedy fuck fuck fuck
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Re: September
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2017, 05:03:32 pm »
Fiers suspended five games for throwing at Valbuena's head, will not appeal.


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Re: September
« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2017, 05:05:21 pm »
Fiers suspended five games for throwing at Valbuena's head, will not appeal.

Stros should appeal for a longer one.
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Re: September
« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2017, 05:14:30 pm »
Being reported Astros twitter reports that Jake broke his thumb, will have surgery, out 6-8 weeks.

Fuckedy fuck fuck fuck

I guess Fisher would make the playoff roster in his stead.
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Re: September
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2017, 05:17:21 pm »
I'm certainly not going to miss Fiers, but Betances actually beans someone in the head and gets off with nothing and Fiers gets five for missing. 

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Re: September
« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2017, 05:19:53 pm »
In 2015, the Astros went 11-16 in September and went from 3 games up on the division to 2.5 games back at the close of business on the 30th.
In 2016, the Astros went 12-15 in September and missed out on a wildcard spot.
In 2017, the Astros are 7-5 in September so far, but the 5 losses have been horrific.

Any thoughts as to if the September performances are a monkey that the team just needs to get off their back by eventually winning a division (part of the maturing process when your core is still pretty young) or if this is more of an issue with Hinch's management style?

I kind of think that it's more of the former, but interested in the conversation.

I think Hinch, like Luhnow, is maturing into his job. However, games like last night make question Hinch to an extent. With an expanded roster, there was no call to pitch Fiers. Some of the lineups he has put out in the last few weeks have also raised questions with me. I guess you can second guess everything, but it's fair to wonder if some of the qualities that make Hinch effective- his calm demeanor and willingness to think outside of the box- might hinder the team, at times. I don't know, but it is fair to notice the pattern and have a discussion.

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Re: September
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2017, 05:28:27 pm »
Stros should appeal for a longer one.

The white sox will probably file an appeal.
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Re: September
« Reply #34 on: September 14, 2017, 05:38:42 pm »
Fuck Fiers. Pitch better.

Sorry for Jake. Glad we have Maybin.
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Re: September
« Reply #35 on: September 14, 2017, 05:49:35 pm »
Fiers suspended five games for throwing at Valbuena's head, will not appeal.


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Not that he doesn't deserve a suspension, but let's be clear...Fiers did not throw at Valbuena's head. 
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Re: September
« Reply #36 on: September 14, 2017, 05:52:28 pm »
Not four.

I'm wondering why three. 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: September
« Reply #37 on: September 14, 2017, 05:53:25 pm »
Not that he doesn't deserve a suspension, but let's be clear...Fiers did not throw at Valbuena's head.

It is kind of bizarre to suspend someone who threw the ball nowhere close to the batter. 
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Re: September
« Reply #38 on: September 14, 2017, 05:56:26 pm »
It is kind of bizarre to suspend someone who threw the ball nowhere close to the batter.

Fiers had no intention of hitting him, and made sure he didn't.  But was trying to make a point.  Valbuena got it, and so did the league.  I guess it's better to yell a guy down as he rounds the bases a la Brian McCann.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: September
« Reply #39 on: September 14, 2017, 06:02:29 pm »
I'm wondering why three.

To pinch run for a catcher. Bullpen can be smaller.
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Re: September
« Reply #40 on: September 14, 2017, 06:08:20 pm »
Fiers had no intention of hitting him, and made sure he didn't.  But was trying to make a point.  Valbuena got it, and so did the league.  I guess it's better to yell a guy down as he rounds the bases a la Brian McCann.

I get the fact that if the pitch were an equal distance outside rather than above it wouldn't be the same, but MLB's official basis is for "intentionally throwing a pitch in the area of the head" which is a pretty significant stretch. 
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Re: September
« Reply #41 on: September 14, 2017, 06:12:13 pm »
I get the fact that if the pitch were an equal distance outside rather than above it wouldn't be the same, but MLB's official basis is for "intentionally throwing a pitch in the area of the head" which is a pretty significant stretch.

I guess it's just that it was a purpose pitch, and the area was irrelevant.  Any pitch that's a strike or even 10 feet outside would be closer to the head than that pitch was. 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: September
« Reply #42 on: September 14, 2017, 09:23:46 pm »
I guess it's just that it was a purpose pitch, and the area was irrelevant.  Any pitch that's a strike or even 10 feet outside would be closer to the head than that pitch was.
Fiers did not get his money's worth on that pitch.


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Re: September
« Reply #43 on: September 15, 2017, 03:20:02 pm »
I'm wondering why three.

Perhaps more than a pinch running situation: if the team goes w/ 2 catchers and one is hit with a back swing during the playoff, who would backup the remaining catcher?
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Re: September
« Reply #44 on: September 15, 2017, 03:36:04 pm »
Perhaps more than a pinch running situation: if the team goes w/ 2 catchers and one is hit with a back swing during the playoff, who would backup the remaining catcher?

That's a good question.   I wonder what the rules are for replacement players when someone is hurt during the playoffs.  I'd assume you can backfill from the non-playoff roster for the remainder of that series.

Edited to add; Yup:

(4) Replacements for Injured Players During a Series. A Club may request permission from the Commissioner or the Commissioner’s designee to replace on the Club’s active roster for the remainder of a post-season series a player who is unable to render service in such post-season series because of a specific injury or ailment that occurred after the Club’s roster for such series had been submitted, provided that the Club submits written proof of the disability to the Commissioner or the Commissioner’s designee. The Commissioner or the Commissioner’s designee may approve or disapprove a request for a roster substitution and may make whatever investigation the Commissioner or the Commissioner’s designee deems appropriate in exercising such discretion. The Commissioner or the Commissioner’s designee’s exercise of discretion may include disapproval of the request for a roster substitution if the Commissioner or the Commissioner’s designee determines that the request was not made in a reasonable amount of time in advance of a game to allow for investigation of the facts and circumstances. If the Commissioner or the Commissioner’s designee gives express approval for the substitution,

(A) the player added to the roster must also be an eligible player pursuant to Rule 40(a)(1) or Rules 40(a)(3)(E) through (G);

(B) a pitcher may be replaced only by a pitcher and a player other than a pitcher may be replaced only by a player other than a pitcher; and

(C) the injured player being replaced shall be ineligible to play for the remainder of such series, as well as the next subsequent post-season series that year.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 03:38:24 pm by das »
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Re: September
« Reply #45 on: September 15, 2017, 03:40:06 pm »
That's a good question.   I wonder what the rules are for replacement players when someone is hurt during the playoffs.  I'd assume you can backfill from the non-playoff roster for the remainder of that series.

I "think" there's a process in place for this, but if you do it, the replaced player is ineligible for the next (or perhaps all subsequent) series.
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Re: September
« Reply #46 on: September 15, 2017, 04:47:18 pm »
I "think" there's a process in place for this, but if you do it, the replaced player is ineligible for the next (or perhaps all subsequent) series.

Just the next one.  So someone replaced in the LDS  could return for the World Series.

Lefty

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Re: September
« Reply #47 on: September 17, 2017, 01:28:17 am »
I "think" there's a process in place for this, but if you do it, the replaced player is ineligible for the next (or perhaps all subsequent) series.


From what I remember, if they're on the 40man and on the DL, they are eligible throughout the playoffs.  If they're on the 40 as of Sept1 and then go on the DL, they can be replaced by anyone on the 40 for the playoffs.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 01:30:43 am by Lefty »
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