Carlos Beltran

[TerryPuhl21]

I believe it was Jim and Chuck having a back and forth in the game thread last night about Beltran. I think he's been such a disappointment at the plate that it is worth a little debate/conversation. Like Chuck, I too have grown weary of seeing Beltran's subpar performance. I can also see Jim's point about what Carlos does beyond the numbers, and I think it has legitimate value, but certainly not 16 million worth. The question becomes, what are the Astros' other options. I did look at some of his and other players numbers. Each of us, and the Astros, has their own stats they value. Personally, I place importance in OBP and strikeout percentage. I want guys who can get on base along with guys who don't wastes ab's with strikeouts. I looked at Beltran in those categories. We all know he is MUCH better from the left side against RHP. His OBP as a lefty hitter is .303 and he strikes out only 20% of the time batting leftie. Hitting righty however, Beltran's OBP plummets to .236 and his strikeout rate increases to 28% from the right side. The Astros started Beltran as the DH against Mariners' lefty Miranda last week. We face another lefty pitcher tonight. I don't understand why Hinch does this. We have MUCH better options from the right side against a lefty. Consider.....
Maybin - .325 OBP 23% strikeout
T. White - .364 OBP 28% strikeout
J. Davis - .310 OBP 29% strikeout
M. Stassi - .391 OBP 11% strikeout
Marisnick - .316 OBP 39% strikeout

Stassi's numbers are in very limited AB's and Marisnick strikes out too much for me. But why in the world would you put Carlos in the DH position if a lefty is on the hill when you have the options you have above? Three of the four listed above have OBP's 80 points or better than Beltran from the right side. Makes no sense to me, and if Beltran is the DH tonight I'm going to beat my head against the wall.

Now, against right handed pitchers I don't have as big an issue with Beltran at DH. The left handed options are not much better. Only Fisher is a viable option and as bad as some of us on here have talked about Fisher, his OBP is actually 14 points higher than Beltran's from that side of the plate. Fisher's OBP is .317 compared to Beltran's .303. Fisher strikes out more however at 33%.

It is just interesting to look at some of the numbers. There may be other numbers you could find to make Beltran look better if you dig deeper. I just looked at two stats I feel are important. For me personally, I think Beltran should only DH left handed from now on. He should never step in the bis right handed again as we have better options from the right side. I guess we will see tonight if Hinch uses any of those other options or continues to let Beltran struggle. Personally, I would only put him in situations where I thought he could be successful. Last week against Miranda wasn't a good spot and tonight isn't either. Just my opinion.



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[JimR]

I cannot think of much I dislike more than posts like this. What you want is immaterial.

[TerryPuhl21]

I cannot think of much I dislike more than posts like this. What you want is immaterial.

What I want is the Astros to be successful. Is that not what you want? I think continuing to DH Beltran against left handed pitching is not they way to make that happen. At least some data backs that up. Is it immaterial because you think Astros brass will continue to DH Beltran regardless??

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[Andyzipp]

I'm not sure why it matters that he makes $16 million this season.  That money is a sunk cost, and is just an unnecessary part of your analysis.

Performance in the playoffs (if that's all you're interested in) doesn't matter if it comes from a 500k guy or a 20mm guy.

[ValpoCory]

Performance in the playoffs (if that's all you're interested in) doesn't matter if it comes from a 500k guy or a 20mm guy.

Yep, and Beltran's OPS in high leverage situations goes up 14%.  In 66 "Late and Close" plate appearances in 2017, Carlos has an OPS of .890.  In 145 plate appearances when the Astros are behind (and need anything to get going), he's at an .873 OPS.

I have this feeling that Beltran's gonna do something for Houston.  That being said, I think it will come against a right handed pitcher.

[TerryPuhl21]

Yep, and Beltran's OPS in high leverage situations goes up 14%.  In 66 "Late and Close" plate appearances, Carlos has an OPS of .890.  In 145 plate appearances when the Astros are behind (and need anything to get going), he's at an .873 OPS.

I have this feeling that Beltran's gonna do something for Houston.  That being said, I think it will come against a right handed pitcher.

And Valpo I thank you for posting those stats about Beltran's performance late in games. I wasn't aware that he was performing that well in those type of situations. That was the reason for my post to begin with. To start some conversation about the subject because I know I'm not the only one wondering why Beltran is still in the lineup in CERTAIN situations. I wasn't suggesting Beltran should be benched or released, just pointing out that I think we have better options against southpaws. I made a point of saying in my original post that I was just wanting to start a discussion about he subject. I appreciate your response much better than being told a point of view is immaterial.


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[JimR]

And Valpo I thank you for posting those stats about Beltran's performance late in games. I wasn't aware that he was performing that well in those type of situations. That was the reason for my post to begin with. To start some conversation about the subject because I know I'm not the only one wondering why Beltran is still in the lineup in CERTAIN situations. I wasn't suggesting Beltran should be benched or released, just pointing out that I think we have better options against southpaws. I made a point of saying in my original post that I was just wanting to start a discussion about he subject. I appreciate your response much better than being told a point of view is immaterial.


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When you take over the team, then your view is material. Until then, you are just one more Internet expert marshaling facts which support your opinion, saying "I want" about decisions which are Hinch's.

[toddthebod]

Yep, and Beltran's OPS in high leverage situations goes up 14%.  In 66 "Late and Close" plate appearances in 2017, Carlos has an OPS of .890.  In 145 plate appearances when the Astros are behind (and need anything to get going), he's at an .873 OPS.

I have this feeling that Beltran's gonna do something for Houston.  That being said, I think it will come against a right handed pitcher.

With runners in scoring position Beltran has a .567 OPS.  With runners in scoring position and 2 outs, Beltran has a .675 OPS.  Neither of those numbers inspire a lot of confidence. 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/player/splits/_/id/3971/carlos-beltran

Looking at potential playoff opponents (and obviously small sample sizes), this year Beltran was great against Minn., and Boston and terrible against NY and Cleveland.   

[TerryPuhl21]

When you take over the team, then your view is material. Until then, you are just one more Internet expert marshaling facts which support your opinion, saying "I want" about decisions which are Hinch's.

You crack me up. None of us are in control of the team. I realize that. All posts on here including yours are immaterial by your standard. You might as well shut this board and all those like it down!


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[JimR]

You crack me up. None of us are in control of the team. I realize that. All posts on here including yours are immaterial by your standard. You might as well shut this board and all those like it down!


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Outside of some posters, no one would care. MLB would applaud.

[Randy Watson]

When you take over the team, then your view is material. Until then, you are just one more Internet expert marshaling facts which support your opinion, saying "I want" about decisions which are Hinch's.

Guess we should just should down this message board then.

[Randy Watson]

Outside of some posters, no one would care. MLB would applaud.

Maybe posters with 24k posts might care?

[JimR]

Maybe posters with 24k posts might care?

If this means me, nah. Texting my friends on here would take its place. The GZ is a group text.

[ValpoCory]

Yep, and Beltran's OPS in high leverage situations goes up 14%.  In 66 "Late and Close" plate appearances in 2017, Carlos has an OPS of .890.  In 145 plate appearances when the Astros are behind (and need anything to get going), he's at an .873 OPS.

I have this feeling that Beltran's gonna do something for Houston.  That being said, I think it will come against a right handed pitcher.

Go Carlos Beltran.  Huge insurance RBI.   One of the biggest differences between the 2017 Astros and the 2015-2016 teams is the propensity to add insurance runs to prevent blown leads.   It happened again today.   

Also, Beltran went 2-for-2 off Craig Kimbrel in the ALDS. 

[Astros Fan in Big D]

 So happy for him and so happy we have him.
  That was a classic at bat and finally got a pitch that he could direct off the monster.   He knew exactly what he was doing with that swing.

[DVauthrin]

Carlos Beltran showed exactly why the Astros are lucky to have him in the ninth inning today.  His RBI double off Kimbrel ended up being the difference in the game.  Not to mention, he provides a wealth of knowledge that the Astros young hitters can learn from.

[TerryPuhl21]

I thought about this very thread after the double off the monster and Valpo's comment above. So glad Valpo can see the future and congrats to Carlos on that clutch hit!!!


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[Mr. Appropriate]

I thought about this very thread after the double off the monster and Valpo's comment above. So glad Valpo can see the future and congrats to Carlos on that clutch hit!!!


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me too. I kept thinking about Valpro's comment in Beltran's last at bat. I heard Valpro's imagined voice speak like a witch from Macbeth when I noticed that Mr. Kimbrel is right handed.

This team can hit anyone. Wonderful to see them hang on and come up with a great win in a hard fought game away. I do respect the Red Sox team--especially Mookie the theif Betts and his amazing defense--and wouldn't be suprised to see da Sox in another postseason series in 2018 or 2019 (all hail the BBG's).

Hope that the Yankee's hold on and beat the Indians in game five.  I would love for the Astros to have home field for the ALCS. Even more I want the national media to watch and judge the merits of both teams' mvp's.

[Duke]

Mrs Duke asked why Gattis was starting at DH against the righty instead of Beltran.  I told her Hinch was saving him to PH against Kimbrel because he owns him.   Made me look prophetic which rarely happens.

[Waldo]

Hope that the Yankee's hold on and beat the Indians in game five.  I would love for the Astros to have home field for the ALCS. Even more I want the national media to watch and judge the merits of both teams' mvp's.

Never thought about the MVP angle but I like it. The media would jizz themselves over that, but if you thought the Red Sox lovefest in this series was intolerable, it will be 100x worse against the Yankees in an ALCS.

[roadrunner]

I love the idea of going through the Red Sox and Yankees to win the pennant.

[Waldo]

I love the idea of going through the Red Sox and Yankees to win the pennant.

Also this.

If you can't tell, I'm conflicted on who to root for in Game 5.

[NeilT]

I love the idea of going through the Red Sox and Yankees to win the pennant.

I hate the Yankees, and Cleveland is the better team, but this would be announcing our presence with authority. 

[Navin R Johnson]

And top it off by beating the Cubs in the WS. Dream scenario.

[ValpoCory]

Mrs Duke asked why Gattis was starting at DH against the righty instead of Beltran.  I told her Hinch was saving him to PH against Kimbrel because he owns him.   Made me look prophetic which rarely happens.

Yep.  Hinch saw what Boston did in Game 3 ... start a right hander (inducing Beltran into the lineup) and then use a LHP long reliever to turn Beltran around.    With Chris Sale looming, Hinch could sense a repeat performance of that strategy by Farrell.   Fool me once, shame on me, etc. 

[ValpoCory]

Also this.

If you can't tell, I'm conflicted on who to root for in Game 5.

Me too.  Both teams are extremely talented.  So all things being equal, go with the team that gives Houston home field (and weekend home games).

[Reuben]

I’m listening to Hinch’s ALCS press conference from earlier today, and he heaped a lot of very genuine-sounding praise on Beltrán and his leadership, intelligence, and stature among his teammates. An interesting thought occurred to me: if Alex Cora, as expected, gets a managing gig somewhere, and Beltrán, I’m assuming, retires as a player... I wonder if they’d make him the new bench coach.

[JimR]

I’m listening to Hinch’s ALCS press conference from earlier today, and he heaped a lot of very genuine-sounding praise on Beltrán and his leadership, intelligence, and stature among his teammates. An interesting thought occurred to me: if Alex Cora, as expected, gets a managing gig somewhere, and Beltrán, I’m assuming, retires as a player... I wonder if they’d make him the new bench coach.

Mark and I talked about this too. He has been great for this team, and the players say so.

[cougar]

I’m listening to Hinch’s ALCS press conference from earlier today, and he heaped a lot of very genuine-sounding praise on Beltrán and his leadership, intelligence, and stature among his teammates. An interesting thought occurred to me: if Alex Cora, as expected, gets a managing gig somewhere, and Beltrán, I’m assuming, retires as a player... I wonder if they’d make him the new bench coach.

I've kinda thought they had a handshake deal to do this since he signed. Seemingly every time they pan the dugout, Carlos is either hovering around Hinch or talking to one of the younger guys. Looks like a season long tryout.

[juliogotay]

I’m listening to Hinch’s ALCS press conference from earlier today, and he heaped a lot of very genuine-sounding praise on Beltrán and his leadership, intelligence, and stature among his teammates. An interesting thought occurred to me: if Alex Cora, as expected, gets a managing gig somewhere, and Beltrán, I’m assuming, retires as a player... I wonder if they’d make him the new bench coach.

I just can't imagine why Beltran would want to coach. He has made a shitpile of money playing and you really don't see superstar types hanging around in uniform once they quit playing. He may go be Governor of Puerto Rico or something.

[NeilT]

I just can't imagine why Beltran would want to coach. He has made a shitpile of money playing and you really don't see superstar types hanging around in uniform once they quit playing. He may go be Governor of Puerto Rico or something.

Maybe he wants to buy a team?

[Reuben]

I just can't imagine why Beltran would want to coach. He has made a shitpile of money playing and you really don't see superstar types hanging around in uniform once they quit playing. He may go be Governor of Puerto Rico or something.

Maybe he really likes wearing a baseball uniform and being in a dugout.

It would be atypical, granted. Especially to transition right away from playing to coaching.

[Duman]

I’m listening to Hinch’s ALCS press conference from earlier today, and he heaped a lot of very genuine-sounding praise on Beltrán and his leadership, intelligence, and stature among his teammates. An interesting thought occurred to me: if Alex Cora, as expected, gets a managing gig somewhere, and Beltrán, I’m assuming, retires as a player... I wonder if they’d make him the new bench coach.

Not a bad thought.  One other thought I have had about a bench coach if Cora becomes a manager is Rodney Linares who has gotten rave reviews as a manager in the minors.  He managed many of the home grown players as they came up.

[HudsonHawk]

I just can't imagine why Beltran would want to coach. He has made a shitpile of money playing and you really don't see superstar types hanging around in uniform once they quit playing.

You mean like Babe Ruth or Ted Williams?

[JimR]

You mean like Babe Ruth or Ted Williams?

Yogi Berra?

[Mr. Happy]

Yogi Berra?

Without doing any research, I would bet that there has been a reduction in superstars going into coaching since free agency. However, and while you could put asterisks by their names, Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire were and are coaches and are examples of post-free agency players who stayed in uniform. .

[Reuben]

Without doing any research, I would bet that there has been a reduction in superstars going into coaching since free agency. However, and while you could put asterisks by their names, Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire were and are coaches and are examples of post-free agency players who stayed in uniform. .

Ryne Sandberg, Paul Molitor to name a couple Hall of Famers. Trammell, who should be a HoFer.

The tricky part is guys who have young kids still. February through October is a long time to be away from your family at least 1/2 the time. Probably feels harder to justify it when you're a coach, not a player. I don't know what Beltran's kid situation is.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Mattingly is another (if not already mentioned)

Some stars/superstars are baseball lifers.

Whatever CB decides to do,  he'll probably be successful.  Or at least his success won't be hindered by lack of open doors.  The dude is respected.