Sour Bilgewaters @ Astros, 7/18

[NeilT]

 Last night was pretty bad, but today is another day.

[Navin R Johnson]

That's the rumor.

[Aussie Astro]

Last night was pretty bad, but today is another day.

Same day for me, one more day I can't watch baseball.

[NeilT]

Bases drunk, Troll Doll sac fly scores Springer.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I tuned in late. Did anyone see Springer get hit? Right hand or left?

[NeilT]

I tuned in late. Did anyone see Springer get hit? Right hand or left?

Yes.

[Nate Colbert]

I tuned in late. Did anyone see Springer get hit? Right hand or left?

Right.

[NeilT]

Caveman!

[austro]

Goddammit, Altuve jogged home and it's going to cost them a run.

[HudsonHawk]

Goddammit, Altuve jogged home and it's going to cost them a run.

Yep.  Lollygagging. 

[NeilT]

Reddick out at 3rd when he bounces off the bag, overturns a sac fly RBI for Gurriel. That's no fun.

[David in Jackson]

That's sucks so hard.


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[Reuben]

Yep.  Lollygagging.

Really poor situational awareness

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Second run lost to lollygagging in as many nights.

[NeilT]

Yep.  Lollygagging.

I wondered if for some reason Altuve was trying to draw th throw to home, but that made no sense.

[David in Jackson]

Yet another example of why replay was not adopted.


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[austro]

Really poor situational awareness

Altuve even turned his head and saw Reddick heading for 3rd. At that point he has to start sprinting.

[HudsonHawk]

I wondered if for some reason Altuve was trying to draw th throw to home, but that made no sense.

Nope.  Just Altuve being lazy.  I hope he gets as big a fine as allowed.

[juliogotay]

who knew hot dogs have their own day.

[HudsonHawk]

Yet another example of why replay was not adopted.


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I hate it too.  But the next generation of players is learning to stay on the bag.  So in another 20 years, you won't see that play. 

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Nope.  Just Altuve being lazy.  I hope he gets as big a fine as allowed.

More goofing off than being lazy. But yeah.

[NeilT]

Damn. Peacock herl.

[JimR]

Second run lost to lollygagging in as many nights.

What run last night?

Altuve is a great hitter, but man, he pisses me off sometimes.

[Reuben]

More goofing off than being lazy. But yeah.

I'd call it spacey.

[NeilT]

What run last night?

Altuve is a great hitter, but man, he pisses me off sometimes.

Really?

[austro]

Peacock looks very good tonight.

[JimR]

Altuve even turned his head and saw Reddick heading for 3rd. At that point he has to start sprinting.

Why not run hard all the way?

[HudsonHawk]

Really?

Really.  I'm missing it too. 

[HudsonHawk]

Why not run hard all the way?

Especially when you know there is likely a play behind you. Just lazy.  Not goofing off, not situational awareness, just being lazy. 

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Is there nothing Marwin can't do?

[austro]

Why not run hard all the way?

Indeed, but he didn't start out that way and *still* had a chance to save the opportunity. It's disappointing.

[HudsonHawk]

Man.  Gattis got carved up that time.

[NeilT]

We're going to Baltimore Thursday. I only bought tickets to one game. I'm regretting it.

[austro]

Nice job by Aoki to lay off those nibblers and then whack the 3-1 pitch into the corner.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

What run last night?

it's speculative but Marwin not busting ass down the line on the first Segura play in the bottom of the ninth--because he thought he had hit a game winner. His action after the play, throwing his helmet, indicated he knew he could have ran harder and beaten the throw and was upset with his self.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Not goofing off, not situational awareness, just being lazy.

Wow. I guess you also consider Correa a malingerer.

[NeilT]

I wonder if Altuve was doing a mini home run trot?

[BizidyDizidy]

Wow. I guess you also consider Correa a malingerer.

HH hates Correa with the fire and passion of 10,000 suns - don't even get him started.

[HudsonHawk]

Wow. I guess you also consider Correa a malingerer.

I'm not seeing your point.  Correa is injured.  Altuve jogged home instead of running and it cost the Astros a run.  How are those analogous? 

[HudsonHawk]

HH hates Correa with the fire and passion of 10,000 suns - don't even get him started.

Wow, you found me out 

[NeilT]

So what's that thing about not scoring the third out at third?  Isn't that like a thing?

[austro]

Why do you try that with Altuve at the plate?

[David in Jackson]

Stupid.


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[Texifornia]

Why do you try that with Altuve at the plate?

and 2 outs??

[HudsonHawk]

Astros should be leading this game by like 9 runs. 

[NeilT]

Wow, you found me out

We found you out 15 years ago. We're just filling in some missing pieces.

[David in Jackson]

Headed to Astros Friday in Baltimore and Tuesday in Philadelphia. Might need to have a few words.


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[HudsonHawk]

We found you out 15 years ago. We're just filling in some missing pieces.

Well don't be a lazy thinker like Biz. 

[David in Jackson]

The above is a joke.


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[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I'm not seeing your point.  Correa is injured.  Altuve jogged home instead of running and it cost the Astros a run.  How are those analogous?

Okay if you want to say on that particular play Altuve was lazy, fine. But it is silly to say that a guy who might be one of the greatest overachievers the game has ever seen, who defied the odds and critics to become a star at the highest level of his sport is lazy. Real silly.

[NeilT]

The above is a joke.


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Too bad.

[HudsonHawk]

Okay if you want to say on that particular play Altuve was lazy, fine. But it is silly to say that a guy who might be one of the greatest overachievers the game has ever seen, who defied the odds and critics to become a star at the highest level of his sport is lazy. Real silly.

So your perception is that he was busting his ass hard on that play.  Alrighty then. 

[David in Jackson]

Nobody sprints on that play. Bullshit replay.


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[David in Jackson]

Dyson looks safe.


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[austro]

Replay is not our friend tonight.

[Texifornia]

Gameday suggests the HPU is erratic. Is that how it looks?

[HudsonHawk]

Dyson looks safe.


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Yep.  gonna get overturned.  Heck of a throw through.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

So your perception is that he was busting his ass hard on that play.  Alrighty then.

It's just that lazy is a behavioral trait that I wouldn't use to describe an isolated incident. My perception is that he was lacking awareness and didn't run to the best of his ability.

[austro]

Goddammit, just concentrate on the hitters.

[David in Jackson]

Giving away bases again and again.


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[HudsonHawk]

Ugh.

[Nate Colbert]

Seems as if Peacock has thrown 72 pitches in this inning alone.

[NeilT]

Nobody sprints on that play. Bullshit replay.


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I think this is probably true. With replay everyone now sprints on that play.

[HudsonHawk]

It's just that lazy is a behavioral trait that I wouldn't use to describe an isolated incident. My perception is that he was lacking awareness and didn't run to the best of his ability.

Lacking awareness means he didn't realize he was on 3B and there was one out.  I don't think Altuve is that stupid about baseball.  I think he just jogged home because he thought he didn't have to run hard. 

[NeilT]

Nice!

[HudsonHawk]

Needed that. 

[David in Jackson]

Boy, Peacock has been huge this year. Did anyone see that coming?


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[NeilT]

Boy, Peacock has been huge this year. Did anyone see that coming?


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Mrs. Peacock, the Mother.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Lacking awareness means he didn't realize he was on 3B and there was one out.  I don't think Altuve is that stupid about baseball.  I think he just jogged home because he thought he didn't have to run hard.

we both agree he fucked up.

[NeilT]

Springer gets his 87th blue star of the season.

[Texifornia]

Peacock will be hard to put back in the pen.

[Reuben]

Hallelujah, another Astro SP manages to get through 6 innings.

[austro]

I'm confused: I thought AZ got rid of Segura because they were tired of his so-so defense. Am I wrong about that?

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Gattis with his second homer!!!!

[NeilT]

Captain Caveman!

[JimR]

It's just that lazy is a behavioral trait that I wouldn't use to describe an isolated incident. My perception is that he was lacking awareness and didn't run to the best of his ability.

Lacking awareness? One does not have to be "aware" to run hard on every play. He loafed.

[Texifornia]

Cro-Mag!!!

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I'm confused: I thought AZ got rid of Segura because they were tired of his so-so defense. Am I wrong about that?

If you aren't, they were?

[Reuben]

I'm confused: I thought AZ got rid of Segura because they were tired of his so-so defense. Am I wrong about that?

AZ switched him to 2B, I know that. I think their SS (Ahmed?) was supposed to be excellent, though.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

One does not have to be "aware" to run hard on every play. He loafed.

No doubt. Doesn't mean he is a lazy person.

[Reuben]

Lacking awareness? One does not have to be "aware" to run hard on every play. He loafed.

No player runs hard on a sac fly when they know they will easily score. It seemed to me that he mistakenly thought his run would easily score, not that he thought "well, I should run hard or else this run might not count, but... fuck it, I don't care."

You and HH are saying he was lazy on the play. I'm saying he was stupid. Both, obviously, are bad, and inexcusable in that situation.

[Nate Colbert]

I'm confused: I thought AZ got rid of Segura because they were tired of his so-so defense. Am I wrong about that?

I thought they were selling high because they thought he wouldn't be able to replicate his 2016 season at the plate.

[MusicMan]

Gattis keeps jogging around the bases. How lazy!


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[JimR]

No doubt. Doesn't mean he is a lazy person.

Does not mean he isn't either. He has a little hot dog in him.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Peacock is the man!

[Texifornia]

Peacock is your new #3, maybe #2.

[Reuben]

Hallelujah, another Astro SP makes it through 7 innings!

[NeilT]

Peacock is your new #3, maybe #2.

After last night, 2 is open for the nonce.

[HudsonHawk]

No player runs hard on a sac fly when they know they will easily score. It seemed to me that he mistakenly thought his run would easily score, not that he thought "well, I should run hard or else this run might not count, but... fuck it, I don't care."

You and HH are saying he was lazy on the play. I'm saying he was stupid. Both, obviously, are bad, and inexcusable in that situation.

Seriously...the excuse making for Altuve on that play is comical.  He was loafing and it cost a run.  This "well, nobody would have run hard on that play..." is ridiculous. 

[Texifornia]

Hallelujah, another Astro SP makes it through 7 innings!

Another?

[Reuben]

Seriously...the excuse making for Altuve on that play is comical.  He was loafing and it cost a run.  This "well, nobody would have run hard on that play..." is ridiculous.

I specifically called it "inexcusable".

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

He has a little hot dog in him.

He often pisses you off. He's never going to be perfect. I'm happy he is on the Astros. I accept the fact that he as a few flaws.

[MusicMan]

Another?

Fiers did it Sunday.


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[Texifornia]

Fiers did it Sunday.


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Right, the ace of the staff.

[MusicMan]

Imagine if this team could run without their heads up their asses.


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[NeilT]

Right, the ace of the staff.

So Fiers is #1, Peacock #2.

[Texifornia]

So Fiers is #1, Peacock #2.

It's a world turned upside down...

[JimR]

No player runs hard on a sac fly when they know they will easily score. It seemed to me that he mistakenly thought his run would easily score, not that he thought "well, I should run hard or else this run might not count, but... fuck it, I don't care."

You and HH are saying he was lazy on the play. I'm saying he was stupid. Both, obviously, are bad, and inexcusable in that situation.

Your first sentence is BS. Watch Reddick play.

[NeilT]

Imagine if this team could run without their heads up their asses.


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We'd have nothing to talk about.

[hostros7]

I followed the box score and felt pretty good about the game thus far until I read through the GZ and realized the box score was just an empty house of lies.


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[hostros7]

We'd have nothing to talk about.

Trout. I'd like to hear a lot more about trout.


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[Texifornia]

It was Keuchel, McCullers and pray for the others...

Now it's Peacock, Fiers and a couple o' spare tires.

[juliogotay]

So Fiers is #1, Peacock #2.

I expect Peacock back to  the pen when/if McHugh and Keuchel rejoin rotation.

[NeilT]

I followed the box score and felt pretty good about the game thus far until I read through the GZ and realized the box score was just an empty house of lies.


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You foo!

[NeilT]

Your first sentence is BS. Watch Reddick play.

Cors'n it was Reddick breakin' for third that caused that whole kerfuffle in the first place.

[HudsonHawk]

Cors'n it was Reddick breakin' for third that caused that whole kerfuffle in the first place.

Right.  If Reddick has lollygagged to 3B, the run would have scored.

[NeilT]

Right.  If Reddick has lollygagged to 3B, the run would have scored.

Or not gone. Or not bounced.

[chuck]

Trout. I'd like to hear a lot more about trout.

Say, I've got a question. Who'll have a better MLB pitching career, Jio Mier or Mark Appel?

[astrojo]

Guduan threw 2 baduans. 

[astrojo]

Both lefties single and Gregerson in.

[Jacksonian]

Both lefties single and Gregerson in.

The second lefty is an out without the shift.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Cors'n it was Reddick breakin' for third that caused that whole kerfuffle in the first place.

Yeah and if he hadn't been fucking around and hopped off the bag momentarily, Altuve scores and the inning continues.

[Reuben]

Your first sentence is BS. Watch Reddick play.

On a sac fly to the deepest part of CF, with no one else on base, Reddick sprints at full speed all the way home? Maybe he does, but I see a whole lot of guys who try to conserve some energy so they don't wear down by the 9th inning, or the 162nd game.

[NeilT]

Yeah and if he hadn't been fucking around and hopped off the bag momentarily, Altuve scores and the inning continues.

But that's a sin of commission, not omission. It's Altuve's fault.

[HudsonHawk]

On a sac fly to the deepest part of CF, with no one else on base, Reddick sprints at full speed all the way home? Maybe he does, but I see a whole lot of guys who try to conserve some energy so they don't wear down by the 9th inning, or the 162nd game.

There was a runner at 2B, in case you misunderstood the play. 

[Reuben]

There was a runner at 2B, in case you misunderstood the play.

No, that's exactly my point. Altuve showed poor situational awareness of the runner and/or outs, because he failed to realize that his jog could result in the run not counting.

[HudsonHawk]

No, that's exactly my point. Altuve showed poor situational awareness of the runner and/or outs, because he failed to realize that his jog could result in the run not counting.

I reject your premise that Altuve didn't know Reddick was on 2B or that if Reddick was thrown out his run wouldn't count.

[chuck]

It was faster than a jog but not an all out sprint. He realized his mistake halfway to home when he looked over his shoulder and saw Reddick on the move. Maybe it will prove to be a lesson learned. Probably Yuli get in the clubhouse and kick some culo venezolano.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

No, that's exactly my point. Altuve showed poor situational awareness of the runner and/or outs, because he failed to realize that his jog could result in the run not counting.

In that situation Altuve wasn't aware that Reddick would come off the base and be tagged out. However if Altuve had given max effort he most likely scores before the out is made.

[HudsonHawk]

No, that's exactly my point. Altuve showed poor situational awareness of the runner and/or outs, because he failed to realize that his jog could result in the run not counting.

Poor situational awareness is having a 2-run lead in the 9th, with a runner on 2B and trying to get the out at 3B instead of taking the easy out at 1B, and letting the tying run get on base.  This play was simply Altuve loafing.  There is no way to spin it. 

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Aoki was coming on like a kamikaze pilot to make that catch.

[NeilT]

Kris:  Who?

Me:  Aoki!  fuckin' Aoki!

Kris:  I thought they said a honky.

This team is such a disappointment.

[Texifornia]

Meanwhile: Gregerson TCB.

Astros win 6-2

[chuck]

Aoki was coming on like a kamikaze pilot to make that catch.

He nipped in there at the last moment.

[Texifornia]

This team is such a disappointment.

Buncha lazy bums.

[juliogotay]

Aoki was coming on like a kamikaze pilot to make that catch.

four Astros heading for a ball in the middle at full throttle made me a little nervous.

[juliogotay]

Poor situational awareness is having a 2-run lead in the 9th, with a runner on 2B and trying to get the out at 3B instead of taking the easy out at 1B, and letting the tying run get on base.  This play was simply Altuve loafing.  There is no way to spin it.

what is the base coach's responsibility in that screwup? Do they not need to remind the runner at 3rd to run hard because of the runner trailing?

[HudsonHawk]

Buncha lazy bums.

See, this is the kind of lazy thinking that is insufferable. 

Someone criticizes Altuve on a particular play:  The reaction from the rabble:  "You think Altuve sucks and the Astros should cut him!"

It's tiresome.  Very tiresome. 

[HudsonHawk]

what is the base coach's responsibility in that screwup? Do they not need to remind the runner at 3rd to run hard because of the runner trailing?

If he has to remind a player to run hard, the problem runs a lot deeper. 

[NeilT]

See, this is the kind of lazy thinking that is insufferable. 

Someone criticizes Altuve on a particular play:  The reaction from the rabble:  "You think Altuve sucks and the Astros should cut him!"

It's tiresome.  Very tiresome.

Buncha lazy fans.

[juliogotay]

If he has to remind a player to run hard, the problem runs a lot deeper.

Obviously he does.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Third base coach: "run your fucking ass off all the time and when you slide don't come off the base."

[Reuben]

Poor situational awareness is having a 2-run lead in the 9th, with a runner on 2B and trying to get the out at 3B instead of taking the easy out at 1B, and letting the tying run get on base.  This play was simply Altuve loafing.  There is no way to spin it.

Actually, I'm not trying to "spin" anything. To me, such a severe lack of situational awareness when it can cost a run is just as unforgivable, for a Major League player, as loafing or laziness.

Do I know for 100% that Altuve's fuck-up was what I'm describing. No. But to me, being "lazy" in that situation would mean that he was fully aware of the consequences, but he simply didn't care, he didn't fuckin' feel like running hard. And I feel like we've seen enough of what Jose Altuve is made of to know that he cares.

[NeilT]

I hate it too.  But the next generation of players is learning to stay on the bag.  So in another 20 years, you won't see that play.

This is exactly it, but for Altuve as well. Next generation sticks the bag. Next generation sprints home.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Buncha lazy fans.

Brobdingnagianly ponderous.

[HudsonHawk]

Actually, I'm not trying to "spin" anything. To me, such a severe lack of situational awareness when it can cost a run is just as unforgivable, for a Major League player, as loafing or laziness.

Do I know for 100% that Altuve's fuck-up was what I'm describing. No. But to me, being "lazy" in that situation would mean that he was fully aware of the consequences, but he simply didn't care, he didn't fuckin' feel like running hard. And I feel like we've seen enough of what Jose Altuve is made of to know that he cares.

I'm not saying he didn't care, I'm saying he thought he didn't have to.  That's not misunderstanding the situation, that's the definition of loafing. 

[NeilT]

Brobdingnagianly ponderous.

Did you look up how to spell that?  I would have had trouble with ponderous.

[Reuben]

I'm not saying he didn't care, I'm saying he thought he didn't have to.  That's not misunderstanding the situation, that's the definition of loafing.

Thought he didn't have to run? Then why do you think he thought that?

In any case, maybe I've missed some games where Altuve has committed egregious loafing before. I can't think of any off the top of my head. But I can think of countless situations where he's made boneheaded baserunning plays, either due to poor reads/judgment (ie. getting thrown out at 2nd on the ball in the dirt tonight) or to poor situational awareness. That, and his occasional tendency to press and get over-anxious at the plate, are the most glaring flaws, in my opinion, in an otherwise excellent player.

[HudsonHawk]

Thought he didn't have to run? Then why do you think he thought that?

Because I think him thinking "I got this" and easing up is a lot more plausible than him not knowing fundamental rules of baseball.

[BudGirl]

Is there nothing Marwin can't do?

pitch 7 innings.

[doyce7]

pitch 7 innings.

To be fair to marwin, he hasn't been asked to try that.

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[MusicMan]

"You know what that makes you? Larry?!?!"
"Lollygaggers!"


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[Knoxbanedoodle]

He nipped in there at the last moment.

Slippery slope, there.

[chuck]

Slippery slope, there.

Depends on the slant.

You saw the Supreme Court win awarded to that (not half bad) band? Good news for the Redskins, I guess.