Author Topic: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime  (Read 570530 times)

Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1000 on: July 27, 2017, 08:27:48 am »
Why would MM force this vote? Seems to give Thor's hammer to primary challengers.

They've been campaigning on repealing the ACA "root and branch" for 7 years.  The base and the President are holding their feet to the fire to get it done.  That cacophony of flapping and clucking you hear is millions of chickens coming home to roost.
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1001 on: July 27, 2017, 08:29:40 am »
That's a nice state you have there.  Be a shame if something were to happen to it.

Quote from: Alaska Dispatch News
President Donald Trump isn't going to just let go of Sen. Lisa Murkowski's no vote on Tuesday's health care.  Early Wednesday, Trump took to Twitter to express displeasure with Murkowski's vote. By that afternoon, each of Alaska's two Republican senators had received a phone call from Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke letting them know the vote had put Alaska's future with the administration in jeopardy.
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Bench

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1002 on: July 27, 2017, 09:55:49 am »
That's a nice state you have there.  Be a shame if something were to happen to it.

It's telling that of the 13 GOP senators (10 men, 3 women) who have voted no on the straight repeal and/or the BRCA, only the women are catching their colleagues' vitriol. 
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Bench

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1003 on: July 27, 2017, 09:56:48 am »
They've been campaigning on repealing the ACA "root and branch" for 7 years.  The base and the President are holding their feet to the fire to get it done.  That cacophony of flapping and clucking you hear is millions of chickens coming home to roost.

And they've had 7 years to actually come up with a policy but instead are spending their lunch today writing a bill that will dramatically affect 1/6 of the nation's economy.
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MusicMan

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1004 on: July 27, 2017, 11:09:55 am »
I'm confused:

Are transgender individuals so violent that I should fear them in the bathroom, or so incapable of violence that I should fear them in my military?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1005 on: July 27, 2017, 11:29:04 am »
Edited because I'm a dummy.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 12:07:33 pm by Andyzipp »

jwhudson

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1006 on: July 27, 2017, 11:58:26 am »
The BLS estimates the total US workforce is 160,145,000.

Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1007 on: July 27, 2017, 02:18:13 pm »
That's a nice state you have there.  Be a shame if something were to happen to it.

The Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee abruptly cancelled the confirmation hearings of 6 Trump appointees this morning.  The nominees are for positions in the Depts of the Interior and Energy.  Interior is Ryan Zinke's department.  The committee is led by Lisa Murkowski of Alaska.
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MusicMan

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1008 on: July 27, 2017, 03:15:01 pm »
The Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee abruptly cancelled the confirmation hearings of 6 Trump appointees this morning.  The nominees are for positions in the Depts of the Interior and Energy.  Interior is Ryan Zinke's department.  The committee is led by Lisa Murkowski of Alaska.

Donald's not used to dealing with women who fight back.


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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1009 on: July 27, 2017, 03:19:40 pm »
Donald's not used to dealing with women who fight back.

He has yet to learn that he's the administrator, not the boss.
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1010 on: July 27, 2017, 03:28:53 pm »
Here's where I start getting nervous.  Cornyn is now insisting - despite no public or private assurances from Speaker Ryan - that the Senate bill is destined for conference committee.  Given the rampant and effortless lying that's been going on about this process, I have no confidence that the Senate leadership won't reassure the Republican opposition that this bill will go to conference so it's safe to vote "yes", and then have Ryan promptly put it to a vote in the House and rush it thereafter to Trump's desk for the smuggest, most gut-wrenchingly self-congratulatory signing ceremony in the history of the planet.
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Bench

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1011 on: July 27, 2017, 03:32:09 pm »
Here's where I start getting nervous.  Cornyn is now insisting - despite no public or private assurances from Speaker Ryan - that the Senate bill is destined for conference committee.  Given the rampant and effortless lying that's been going on about this process, I have no confidence that the Senate leadership won't reassure the Republican opposition that this bill will go to conference so it's safe to vote "yes", and then have Ryan promptly put it to a vote in the House and rush it thereafter to Trump's desk for the smuggest, most gut-wrenchingly self-congratulatory signing ceremony in the history of the planet.

That's clearly what is going to happen.  A bunch of Republicans complaining about the process and substance of the bill, but keeping voting it along "in order to have a frank discussion" about it (McCain being the crowning hypocrite) and then, voila, it's on Trump's desk. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1012 on: July 27, 2017, 03:32:59 pm »
Don't they still have to pass something to send to conference?

Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1013 on: July 27, 2017, 03:41:40 pm »
Don't they still have to pass something to send to conference?

Right.  But if they convince the current "no" voters that this is just a procedural / placeholder bill to get to conference, then they might get to 50 votes + Pence.  But - forgive me if I'm wrong - once passed in the Senate, it becomes Ryan's choice whether to go to conference or simply to put the bill on the floor of the House for a vote.

Do you trust Ryan not to ram this through the House tomorrow night?
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1014 on: July 27, 2017, 03:44:47 pm »
That's clearly what is going to happen.  A bunch of Republicans complaining about the process and substance of the bill, but keeping voting it along "in order to have a frank discussion" about it (McCain being the crowning hypocrite) and then, voila, it's on Trump's desk.

Lindsey Graham is starting to earn a tiny space in my heart.  First there was the joke about murdering Ted Cruz, and now...

Quote from: Lindsey Graham
The worst possible outcome is to pass something that most of us believe is a placeholder and it becomes the final product.  Trying to fix it later is a nonstarter because this placeholder concept - the skinny bill - would destroy insurance markets and not even remotely replace Obamacare.
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MusicMan

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1015 on: July 27, 2017, 03:50:37 pm »
Lindsey Graham is McCain Lite. He'll complain about this and then do nothing to stop it.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1016 on: July 27, 2017, 04:12:06 pm »
Lindsey Graham is McCain Lite. He'll complain about this and then do nothing to stop it.

Exactly.  Worthless until proven otherwise.

Bench

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1017 on: July 27, 2017, 04:45:16 pm »
Lindsey Graham is McCain Lite. He'll complain about this and then do nothing to stop it.

He's certainly voted yes at every opportunity. 
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Bench

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1018 on: July 27, 2017, 05:54:45 pm »
Exactly.  Worthless until proven otherwise.

These morons are literally saying they will vote for the bill only if they are assured it doesn't become law.  Gee, if one there were a way for them to have say in it!
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Knoxbanedoodle

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1019 on: July 27, 2017, 07:44:38 pm »
These morons are literally saying they will vote for the bill only if they are assured it doesn't become law.  Gee, if one there were a way for them to have say in it!

This is perfectly representative of their behavior in office the whole time. What a gas!

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1020 on: July 28, 2017, 12:42:29 am »
FWIW... the skinny bill did not pass. McCain was the deciding vote.

In the spirit of the "wooo":

http://screengrabber.deadspin.com/bah-gawd-its-the-rattlesnake-1797324485
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 01:42:59 am by WVastro »

Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1021 on: July 28, 2017, 08:03:04 am »
FWIW... the skinny bill did not pass. McCain was the deciding vote.

By one fucking vote.  And then the CBO score came out which said the Healthcare Freedom and Newspeak Act would throw 16 million off insurance and raise premiums an average of 20%, while the elimination of the individual mandate was widely expected the implode the private insurance market.

One fucking vote.
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moriartp

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1022 on: July 28, 2017, 08:24:52 am »
FWIW... the skinny bill did not pass. McCain was the deciding vote.

In the spirit of the "wooo":

http://screengrabber.deadspin.com/bah-gawd-its-the-rattlesnake-1797324485
That's a great video. I'm not going to heap praise on McCain for his vote (what do you want, a cookie?), but he embarrassed Mitch McConnell and Mike Pence in the most dramatic way possible, and I do applaud that.

Not to mention that by letting McConnell think he could get the votes, McCain caused multiple vulnerable Republicans on the '18 ballot to cast unnecessary votes in favor of a terrible and deeply unpopular bill that was brought to the floor under the shadiest process possible. So kudos for that as well.

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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1023 on: July 28, 2017, 09:04:41 am »
Not to mention that by letting McConnell think he could get the votes, McCain caused multiple vulnerable Republicans on the '18 ballot to cast unnecessary votes in favor of a terrible and deeply unpopular bill that was brought to the floor under the shadiest process possible. So kudos for that as well.

Ditto Ryan in the House.  The campaign ads are writing themselves, which is a good thing because if Democrats write them they'll fuck them up.
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Knoxbanedoodle

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1024 on: July 28, 2017, 10:17:15 am »
Ditto Ryan in the House.  The campaign ads are writing themselves, which is a good thing because if Democrats write them they'll fuck them up.

You guys are too hard on the Dems. They just haven't updated their playbook for Batshit World yet.

Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1025 on: July 28, 2017, 10:18:01 am »
That's a great video. I'm not going to heap praise on McCain for his vote (what do you want, a cookie?), but he embarrassed Mitch McConnell and Mike Pence in the most dramatic way possible, and I do applaud that.

It's also best not to forget that defeat of the bill also required "nay" votes from Murkowski and Collins, who have been consistent in their opposition to this entire process.  McCain swept in, made an impassioned speech objecting to what was going on, but then split his votes with two "yays" and two "nays".  Not entirely a profile in courage but very effective in hoovering up the kudos.
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Bench

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1026 on: July 28, 2017, 10:49:26 am »
It's also best not to forget that defeat of the bill also required "nay" votes from Murkowski and Collins, who have been consistent in their opposition to this entire process.  McCain swept in, made an impassioned speech objecting to what was going on, but then split his votes with two "yays" and two "nays".  Not entirely a profile in courage but very effective in hoovering up the kudos.

Also credit to the senate dems led by Schumer.  Even red state democratic senators like Manchin were never in play.  A rare showing of organized solidarity from that group.
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1027 on: July 28, 2017, 10:52:29 am »
Trump tweeted this morning that the filibuster has to go.  smh
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1028 on: July 28, 2017, 10:58:00 am »
Nothing Trump says will ever ruin my day as much as seeing this did.  Presidential portrait
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Bench

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1029 on: July 28, 2017, 11:02:57 am »
Trump tweeted this morning that the filibuster has to go.  smh

He probably thinks that's what happened. 
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1030 on: July 28, 2017, 11:02:57 am »
Nothing Trump says will ever ruin my day as much as seeing this did.  Presidential portrait

According to Scaramucci, Trump is an amazing athlete who can swish jumpers from the key in a suit and tie, knock a baseball out of the park and never misses a 3-foot putt.  Yes, he said these things.  With a straight face and without any f-bombs.

Seth Meyer said of that photo "Trump is his own doubles partner" and of Scaramucci "he's the human embodiment of a double-parked BMW."
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1031 on: July 28, 2017, 11:04:51 am »
He probably thinks that's what happened.

He subsequently (but not contemporaneously) tweeted that it has to go for other legislation to come later.  I think someone explained it to him, or had him watch Schoolhouse Rock.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1032 on: July 28, 2017, 11:06:26 am »
According to Scaramucci, Trump is an amazing athlete who can swish jumpers from the key in a suit and tie, knock a baseball out of the park and never misses a 3-foot putt.  Yes, he said these things.  With a straight face and without any f-bombs.

Seth Meyer said of that photo "Trump is his own doubles partner" and of Scaramucci "he's the human embodiment of a double-parked BMW."

He's just gross.
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1033 on: July 28, 2017, 11:12:54 am »
He's just gross.

He's a rarity; a human being with exactly zero redeeming qualities.  Even Hitler was a poet and an artist.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1034 on: July 28, 2017, 12:33:04 pm »
According to Scaramucci, Trump is an amazing athlete who can swish jumpers from the key in a suit and tie, knock a baseball out of the park and never misses a 3-foot putt.  Yes, he said these things.  With a straight face and without any f-bombs.

Seth Meyer said of that photo "Trump is his own doubles partner" and of Scaramucci "he's the human embodiment of a double-parked BMW."

Deadspin reported that the official transcript was altered to read that he sinks 30 ft putts, not 3 foot putts (which is what moochie said) because trump apparently thought those gimmes weren't representative of his phenomenal golf skills. Phenomenal.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1035 on: July 28, 2017, 03:24:53 pm »
You are not alone in your admiration for Der Fuhrer. No less than Franz Liebkin touted another of his manifold talents. "He could paint an entire apartment in one afternoon - two coats." 
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geezerdonk

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1036 on: July 28, 2017, 03:26:58 pm »
Uncle Joe Stalin had a great mustache, never mind a fantastic head of hair.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1037 on: July 28, 2017, 03:29:56 pm »
Not only was he cuddly, but Pol Pot made a killer scintillating sticky rice.
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1038 on: July 28, 2017, 04:46:08 pm »
Priebus fired as Chief of Staff.  Who saw that coming?

The list of senior staff leaving or getting fired is impressive for only the first six months.  I'm sure there's more but here's a sample list:

National Security Adviser (Flynn)
FBI Director (Comey)
Press Secretary (Spicer)
Assistant Press Secretary
Acting AG (Yates)
Communications Director
Deputy Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
48 US Attorneys

In fact, he's already fired three people directly involved with the investigations into himself: Comey, Yates and Bharaha.  Meanwhile, he's been threatening AG Sessions, HHS Secretary Price, Acting FBI Director McCabe and, of course, Special Prosecutor Mueller.  Tillerson is also thought to be on the bubble, but no one has seen that fucker for weeks now.  Can't fire him if you can't see him, right?

Also today Trump instructed ICE and law enforcement to be deliberately rough with suspects in custody.  He did it in a speech in front of a audience of NY cops, and got a loud cheer / applause for it.  Because the problem today is cops being too delicate with people they interact with?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 04:51:22 pm by Limey »
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austro

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1039 on: July 28, 2017, 07:14:50 pm »
You left out Scaramucci's wife saying "enough!" and filing for divorce and walking out with the kids.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1040 on: July 28, 2017, 07:32:03 pm »
You left out Scaramucci's wife saying "enough!" and filing for divorce and walking out with the kids.

I can't decide what I like best about this guy. It could be that sweet cornicello necklace that you can see when he leaves his silk shirt open down to the fourth button. It could be that he's the first guy to wear see-through socks on Air Force One since the Johnson administration. Or it could be that his name sort of rhymes with douchey.
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austro

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1041 on: July 28, 2017, 07:47:56 pm »
I can't decide what I like best about this guy. It could be that sweet cornicello necklace that you can see when he leaves his silk shirt open down to the fourth button. It could be that he's the first guy to wear see-through socks on Air Force One since the Johnson administration. Or it could be that his name sort of rhymes with douchey.

You know that he's just itching to break out his Joe Pesci: "You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little fucked up maybe, but I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to fuckin' amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?"
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1042 on: July 31, 2017, 01:52:04 pm »
NYT WH Correspondent reporting that "The Mooch" is out as Communications Director.  But it was working so well...
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austro

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1043 on: July 31, 2017, 01:58:08 pm »
NYT WH Correspondent reporting that "The Mooch" is out as Communications Director.  But it was working so well...

I didn't think Kelly and Scaramucci were going to mix very well. My big worry right now is that Kelly might very well be able to get everybody to heel and start implementing all of these ill-thought-out policies.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1044 on: July 31, 2017, 02:13:10 pm »
I didn't think Kelly and Scaramucci were going to mix very well. My big worry right now is that Kelly might very well be able to get everybody to heel and start implementing all of these ill-thought-out policies.

Until Kelly points out the obvious and tells Donald that his daughter and son-in-law need to get real jobs.
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1045 on: July 31, 2017, 03:10:37 pm »
Until Kelly points out the obvious and tells Donald that his daughter and son-in-law need to get real jobs.

Trump doesn't like anyone threatening or even appearing to threaten his dominance.  That's why he arranged for Ivanka to marry Jared.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1046 on: July 31, 2017, 06:16:02 pm »
Just wanted to point out a few encouraging signs in this dismal Trump/Republican base era.  Maybe the fever is beginning to break:

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/07/31/my-party-is-in-denial-about-donald-trump-215442

Quote
Meanwhile, the strange specter of an American president’s seeming affection for strongmen and authoritarians created such a cognitive dissonance among my generation of conservatives—who had come of age under existential threat from the Soviet Union—that it was almost impossible to believe. Even as our own government was documenting a con­certed attack against our democratic processes by an enemy foreign power, our own White House was rejecting the authority of its own intelligence agencies, disclaiming their findings as a Democratic ruse and a hoax. Conduct that would have had conservatives up in arms had it been exhibited by our political opponents now had us dumbstruck.

In addition, the quote from Orrin Hatch. Orrin Hatch
Quote
I don’t think we should be discriminating against anyone. Transgender people are people, and deserve the best we can do for them.


And finally, Houston business execs standing up to the piece of crap Dan Patrick and his bathroom bill:

Quote
"We support diversity and inclusion, and we believe that any such bill risks harming Texas' reputation and impacting the state;s economic growth and ability to create new jobs," the letter states.
"Innovative companies are driven by their people, and winning the talent recruitment battle is key. Any bill that harms our ability to attract top talent to Houston will inhibit our growth and continued success — and ultimately the success of our great state."



HudsonHawk

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1047 on: July 31, 2017, 07:32:26 pm »
NYT WH Correspondent reporting that "The Mooch" is out as Communications Director.  But it was working so well...

So how do you feel if you're Spicey?  Get run out of town because you told the boss that hiring the Mooch was a bad idea.  10 days later, Mooch gets canned.  Spicey:  "Why the fuck doesn't anyone listen to me..."
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

austro

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1048 on: July 31, 2017, 07:35:47 pm »
So how do you feel if you're Spicey?  Get run out of town because you told the boss that hiring the Mooch was a bad idea.  10 days later, Mooch gets canned.  Spicey:  "Why the fuck doesn't anyone listen to me..."

I think he actually comes out of this looking pretty good (if that's possible, given his previous 180 days of dissembling and outright lying). He's out of the insane asylum, he got to resign for believable reasons (unlike Priebus), and Mooch flamed out in spectacular fashion. That's about the best Spicer could have hoped for.

ETA: Now I'm waiting to see what happens with Conway.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
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But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1049 on: July 31, 2017, 09:26:41 pm »
Are they trolling their own readers?

The Federalist (posted this morning): Why Anthony Scaramucci Is The Man Trump And America Need

The Federalist (posted this evening): Why Scaramucci’s Firing Might Be Good News For Donald Trump

austro

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1050 on: July 31, 2017, 09:27:48 pm »
Are they trolling their own readers?

The Federalist (posted this morning): Why Anthony Scaramucci Is The Man Trump And America Need

The Federalist (posted this evening): Why Scaramucci’s Firing Might Be Good News For Donald Trump

They're not thinking anymore, just cheerleading.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
Up and down the M1 in some luminous yo-yo toy
But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

HudsonHawk

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1051 on: July 31, 2017, 10:38:07 pm »
Saw this somewhere...

Scaramucci...get hired, gets divorced, has a kid, and gets fired...in 10 days.  Like a house fly. 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1052 on: August 01, 2017, 08:32:26 am »
So how do you feel if you're Spicey?  Get run out of town because you told the boss that hiring the Mooch was a bad idea.  10 days later, Mooch gets canned.  Spicey:  "Why the fuck doesn't anyone listen to me..."

Met a long-time business acquaintance last night.  HIs theory is that the "Mooch" was just living up to his name, and using a stint at the White House as a tax dodge.  When joining the White House, one is expected to divest personal business assets* but, because this is a somewhat forced divestiture, the IRS will forgive any otherwise applicable capital gains taxes...

* Unless you're the President, apparently.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1053 on: August 01, 2017, 08:35:46 am »
WaPo says that Trump Sr. personally dictated the original statement about Jr et al's meeting with the Russians, that falsely claimed it was about adoptions.  In fact, the panel of advisors wanted to come clean completely about the meeting to get ahead of the story, but Trump Sr. overruled that advice preferring to make up a lie.

They're really, really bad at this.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1054 on: August 01, 2017, 08:42:25 am »
Jeff Flake lets the Trump enablers have it with both, perfectly tanned and coiffed barrels.

Quote
It was we conservatives who, upon Obama’s election, stated that our No. 1 priority was not advancing a conservative policy agenda but making Obama a one-term president—the corollary to this binary thinking being that his failure would be our success and the fortunes of the citizenry would presumably be sorted out in the meantime. It was we conservatives who were largely silent when the most egregious and sustained attacks on Obama’s legitimacy were leveled by marginal figures who would later be embraced and legitimized by far too many of us. It was we conservatives who rightly and robustly asserted our constitutional prerogatives as a co-equal branch of government when a Democrat was in the White House but who, despite solemn vows to do the same in the event of a Trump presidency, have maintained an unnerving silence as instability has ensued. To carry on in the spring of 2017 as if what was happening was anything approaching normalcy required a determined suspension of critical faculties. And tremendous powers of denial.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1055 on: August 01, 2017, 11:33:44 am »
Jeff Flake lets the Trump enablers have it with both, perfectly tanned and coiffed barrels.

Cabrera'd.

Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1056 on: August 01, 2017, 11:52:35 am »
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1057 on: August 01, 2017, 01:15:21 pm »
Cabrera'd.

When do you have time to read politics with all the baseball you follow?  Quite impressive.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1058 on: August 01, 2017, 02:11:48 pm »
When do you have time to read politics with all the baseball you follow?  Quite impressive.

Twitter for me has made a huge difference on being able to keep up with baseball and other news. Saves me a ton of time.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1059 on: August 02, 2017, 09:15:33 am »
Met a long-time business acquaintance last night.  HIs theory is that the "Mooch" was just living up to his name, and using a stint at the White House as a tax dodge.  When joining the White House, one is expected to divest personal business assets* but, because this is a somewhat forced divestiture, the IRS will forgive any otherwise applicable capital gains taxes...

* Unless you're the President, apparently.

Sacaramucci has come out and said that he's going to pay the CG tax on his divestitures.  I'll believe that when I see it, which I won't, because his tax returns are private.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1060 on: August 02, 2017, 09:27:17 am »
So, despite repeated denials from all and sundry, not only did Trump Sr. see the statement released in the name of Trump Jr. stating that the June 2016 Russia meeting was about adoptions...he wrote it!  Reportedly, his advisers were in favor of complete candor about the meeting - because it will all come out anyway (which it did) - but Trump Sr. overruled them and dictated the - at best - misleading statement.

Also, the Fox News story about the death of DNC staffer Seth Rich - which claimed that he was behind the leaks of DNC emails, not the Russians - was concocted by Fox News and wealthy Trump supporter Ed Butowsky...with the knowledge of the White House.  Fox and the wealthy booster had meetings with Sean Spicer to brief him of the upcoming story, presumably so that Spicer could be ready to boost the story once it was released.

The story quickly fell apart - because it was literally "fake news" - and Fox ended up deleting it from its website.  Of course, like almost all of these things, it's a zombie lie that won't die; you'll get a Trump supporter to let go of the fact that Hillary had Rich killed when you can pry it out of their cold, dead hand.

The sweeping dishonesty of the Trump campaign / administration is overwhelming.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1061 on: August 02, 2017, 10:35:04 am »
When Trump and his flying monkeys talk about adoptions with Russians, what they're really talking about is sanctions - specifically, the Magnitsky Act.  Last week Bill Browder was scheduled to give testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee about the reason why this act exists and Russia's ongoing efforts to have it ended.  Trump blew up the news media that day with his tweet about trangender service personnel, but Browder's testimony was postponed a day.  The next day, when Browder testified, the news media was distracted by the Mooch's phone call rant about Priebus being a " fucking paranoiac" and Bannon "sucking his own cock".

Regardless, Browder's testimony exists, is on the record, and is stunning.  He joins the dots from the horrific death in a Russian prison of Sergei Magnitsky to a "Russian government attorney" working in the U.S. to stem the spread of the Magnitsky Act to other countries and towards its repeal it here - said attorney being one Natalia Veselnitskaya...
« Last Edit: August 02, 2017, 10:36:52 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1062 on: August 02, 2017, 10:55:29 am »
Trump signed the Russia sanctions bill, despite his best efforts to avoid doing so.  I can hear him now though...

"this is the greatest bill.  Ever.  People are saying that...everywhere...standing ovations for this bill of mine...never happened before...never...in the history of bills...tremendous bill...yuge..."
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

chuck

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1063 on: August 02, 2017, 12:44:38 pm »
The sweeping dishonesty of the Trump campaign / administration is overwhelming.

It's so overwhelming that, in the public sphere at least, it is effectively meaningless.
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1064 on: August 02, 2017, 02:28:14 pm »
Trump signed the Russia sanctions bill, despite his best efforts to avoid doing so.  I can hear him now though...

"this is the greatest bill.  Ever.  People are saying that...everywhere...standing ovations for this bill of mine...never happened before...never...in the history of bills...tremendous bill...yuge..."

You jest but he has, in recent days, claimed that he has achieved more than any other President in history.  Now, if you give him the benefit of the doubt and add the caveat he omitted of "at this point in office", he's still way off.  He'd signed 42 bills, which wasn't even as much as Obama or Bush before him.  Also, if you look at the substantive nature of legislative accomplishment, he's at a big, fat zero.  Most Presidents, especially when of the same party of the one which controls the House and Senate, had passed some pretty important legislation by this point in office.  Trump has this sanctions bill and a bunch of procedural or ceremonial bills.

On the flip side, Obamacare is alive and bin Laden is still dead.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1065 on: August 02, 2017, 03:41:33 pm »
Trump appended a signing statement to the sanctions bill he signed today.  The full text is at the foregoing link, but here's a taste:

Quote from: Donald J. Trump
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

In all seriousness, it's a piece of work.  You need to read it.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2017, 03:44:19 pm by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1066 on: August 02, 2017, 04:08:20 pm »
Trump appended a signing statement to the sanctions bill he signed today.  The full text is at the foregoing link, but here's a taste:

In all seriousness, it's a piece of work.  You need to read it.

Here's the money shot:

Still, the bill remains seriously flawed – particularly because it encroaches on the executive branch’s authority to negotiate.  Congress could not even negotiate a healthcare bill after seven years of talking.   
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austro

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1067 on: August 02, 2017, 04:28:48 pm »
I built a truly great company worth many billions of dollars.  That is a big part of the reason I was elected.  As President, I can make far better deals with foreign countries than Congress.

What a child.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1068 on: August 02, 2017, 04:50:15 pm »
I built a truly great company worth many billions of dollars.  That is a big part of the reason I was elected.  As President, I can make far better deals with foreign countries than Congress.

What a child.

Any Republican legislator that defends this guy in public is a shameless, dickless invertebrate.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1069 on: August 02, 2017, 06:03:03 pm »
Any Republican legislator that defends this guy in public is a shameless, dickless invertebrate.

And now on the news tonight they're describing how he's yelling at the generals and advisors who are describing the Afghanistan situation. His entire business "success" is based on bluster and bullying, and he's finally finding out that that only goes so far.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
Up and down the M1 in some luminous yo-yo toy
But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1070 on: August 03, 2017, 08:29:36 am »
Any Republican legislator that defends this guy in public is a shameless, dickless invertebrate.

The evidence is mounting that they're just ignoring him and doing what they were going to do anyway.

Quote from: LawFare
The president seems scary, and he is, but he also has no control over his administration.  There is lots of talk about Trump’s threat to the independence of the Justice Department, the FBI, the intelligence community, and the like.  But the truth is that these agencies are operating with an independence to presidential wishes like never before.  It’s a very strange state of affairs. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1071 on: August 03, 2017, 08:35:03 am »
The evidence is mounting that they're just ignoring him and doing what they were going to do anyway.

The response of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs to his transgender ban was as close to an "f you" from the military to the CIC as I'd ever thought I'd see.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1072 on: August 03, 2017, 08:36:36 am »
And now on the news tonight they're describing how he's yelling at the generals and advisors who are describing the Afghanistan situation. His entire business "success" is based on bluster and bullying, and he's finally finding out that that only goes so far.

The hilarious part about his rant at the Generals was that he regaled them with a story about remodelling a restaurant, and how he got better information from the waitstaff than the management.  OK, Don, grab a flak jacket and head to Afghanistan to get the scoop from the "waitstaff" on the ground...

Meanwhile, the latest round of polls are pretty brutal.  Quinnipiac has him at a 33% approval rating vs. 60% disapproval.  They also found that most Americans say they are embarrassed to have Trump as president, believe Trump is abusing the powers of his office, and see Trump as positioning himself as above the law.  The same poll showed a majority of Americans agreeing that Trump is not levelheaded, not honest, lacking in leadership skills, and unconcerned with average Americans.  He only has a 76% approval rating among Republicans and is underwater with white, non-college educated men...you know, his base.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1073 on: August 03, 2017, 08:40:06 am »
The response of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs to his transgender ban was as close to an "f you" from the military to the CIC as I'd ever thought I'd see.

Yesterday, he got eff-you'd by the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Prime Minister Medvedev of Russia, President Nieto of Mexico, White House Chief of Staff Kelly and the head of the Boy Scouts of America.  He's a lame duck 6 months in.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1074 on: August 03, 2017, 09:00:16 am »
The eff-you from Medvedev is worth highlighting itself.  It signals Putin being at the end of his rope with his ineffective puppet; he expelled 755 U.S. diplomats this week, and Trump has still yet to utter a word about it.  The peepee tape can't be far behind.

Quote from: Prime Minister Medvedev
The Trump administration has shown its total weakness by handing over executive power to Congress in the most humiliating way.  The US establishment fully outwitted Trump. The President is not happy about the sanctions, yet he could not but sign the bill.  We will steadily continue our work on developing the economy, relying mostly on ourselves. We have learned to do this.

Of course, the biggest take away from this is that the Prime Minister of Russia speaks better English than the President of the United States of America.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 09:02:11 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1075 on: August 03, 2017, 09:33:33 am »
He only has a 76% approval rating among Republicans and is underwater with white, non-college educated men...you know, his base.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1076 on: August 03, 2017, 09:38:39 am »
What have you done for me lately??

Exactly.  No wall, chaos around the Mooslem ban, Hillary walking free and they still have their healthcare.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1077 on: August 03, 2017, 09:44:33 am »
The eff-you from Medvedev is worth highlighting itself.  It signals Putin being at the end of his rope with his ineffective puppet; he expelled 755 U.S. diplomats this week, and Trump has still yet to utter a word about it.  The peepee tape can't be far behind.


Putin is doing what Putin does: sewing chaos and discord.  They are just jerking the chain around.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1078 on: August 03, 2017, 10:28:41 am »
Putin is doing what Putin does: sewing chaos and discord.  They are just jerking the chain around.

Agreed.  Trump is becoming more and more unhinged by all this, to the extent he made up two phone calls that never happened on the same day and shouted at his our Generals.

Having said that, it's a close thing whether Trump's flailing or Miller's press briefing was the most bizarre thing yesterday.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1079 on: August 03, 2017, 10:35:15 am »
Agreed.  Trump is becoming more and more unhinged by all this, to the extent he made up two phone calls that never happened on the same day and shouted at his our Generals.

Having said that, it's a close thing whether Trump's flailing or Miller's press briefing was the most bizarre thing yesterday.

I can believe that a 70+ year old man who eats like shit and never exercises is in cognitive decline.

I can't believe the United States put a 31 year old white nationalist who couldn't have won a high school debate tournament at the podium to speak on its behalf.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1080 on: August 03, 2017, 10:43:30 am »
I can't believe the United States put a 31 year old white nationalist who couldn't have won a high school debate tournament at the podium to speak on its behalf.

The list of human garbage in Trump's orbit is long.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1081 on: August 03, 2017, 10:52:20 am »

I can't believe the United States put a 31 year old white nationalist who couldn't have won a high school debate tournament at the podium to speak on its behalf.


This administration has said to hell with dog whistles and moved right back to overt racism.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1082 on: August 03, 2017, 10:55:03 am »
This administration has said to hell with dog whistles and moved right back to overt racism.

Doesn't mean I've moved past denial, etc to acceptance.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1083 on: August 03, 2017, 11:56:05 am »
The transcripts of the calls PPG had with Peña Nieto and Turnbull are fucking brutal.

What a negotiator. You could randomly pluck some 17 year old out of the Amarillo Model UN and see them do a better job.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1084 on: August 03, 2017, 12:00:19 pm »
I can believe that a 70+ year old man who eats like shit and never exercises is in cognitive decline.

Trump has assured me that doctors have pronounced him the healthiest individual to ever take the oath of office.  In fact, doctors are stunned, at a loss even, to explain how Trump can be so vibrant and healthy. 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1085 on: August 03, 2017, 12:08:20 pm »
Trump has assured me that doctors have pronounced him the healthiest individual to ever take the oath of office.  In fact, doctors are stunned, at a loss even, to explain how Trump can be so vibrant and healthy. 

"Vibrant" does not mean "jiggles like a bowl full of jelly".
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1086 on: August 03, 2017, 01:57:01 pm »
The transcripts of the calls PPG had with Peña Nieto and Turnbull are fucking brutal.

What a negotiator. You could randomly pluck some 17 year old out of the Amarillo Model UN and see them do a better job.


It must be terrible to have all your internal or private discussions blasted out on the internet for all to see...
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1087 on: August 03, 2017, 02:10:02 pm »
It must be terrible to have all your internal or private discussions blasted out on the internet for all to see...

At least we have a relatively high level of confidence that these calls actually happened and aren't just some bizarre, demented fever dream.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1088 on: August 03, 2017, 02:22:53 pm »
At least we have a relatively high level of confidence that these calls actually happened and aren't just some bizarre, demented fever dream.

This extract of the transcript is extremely telling.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1089 on: August 03, 2017, 02:37:51 pm »
I believe the proper internet parlance is "shit just got real":

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/special-counsel-mueller-impanels-washington-grand-jury-in-russia-probe-1501788287


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1090 on: August 03, 2017, 02:50:00 pm »
I believe the proper internet parlance is "shit just got real":

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/special-counsel-mueller-impanels-washington-grand-jury-in-russia-probe-1501788287


Preemptive strike against North Korea in three...two...
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1091 on: August 03, 2017, 04:10:37 pm »
I believe the proper internet parlance is "shit just got real":

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/special-counsel-mueller-impanels-washington-grand-jury-in-russia-probe-1501788287


Apparently it's been sat for a few weeks and has already issued subpoenas on, at least, the June 2016 Russia meeting.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1092 on: August 03, 2017, 09:56:30 pm »
Trump told Congress to stay in session until they get health care reform done.  Then Trump went on vacation.  Then Congress left for the summer. 

But they didn't completely ignore the President.  Lisa Murkowski proposed that they keep the Senate in session to block any recess appointments.  The Senate approved the measure without a single vote against. 

He.  Is.  Done. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1093 on: August 03, 2017, 10:12:58 pm »
Trump told Congress to stay in session until they get health care reform done.  Then Trump went on vacation.  Then Congress left for the summer. 

But they didn't completely ignore the President.  Lisa Murkowski proposed that they keep the Senate in session to block any recess appointments.  The Senate approved the measure without a single vote against. 

He.  Is.  Done. 

The fact that Murkowski, a woman, made the motion is fantastic. His head will explode. I legitimately expect him to have a stroke before his term is up.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1094 on: August 03, 2017, 10:28:41 pm »
The fact that Murkowski, a woman, made the motion is fantastic. His head will explode. I legitimately expect him to have a stroke before his term is up.

Trump already had the Interior Dept explicitly threaten funding to Alaska after her earlier healthcare vote.  Then she held up a committee vote on some nominees.  Now this.  I'm liking this lady more and more every day. She's got bigger balls than 99% of the GOP.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1095 on: August 03, 2017, 10:39:04 pm »
I wonder how Zinke's going to get to work when they take away his pony because PPG wants to ride it.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1096 on: August 04, 2017, 12:37:59 am »
How can anyone who has read the transcripts of the calls Trump had with Nieto and Turnbull think this orange  opossum taint has any business being the President of the United States of America?   Head of a handed down family business, sure. Reality TV star. Perfect.   President of the United States of America?   Come the fuck on.  This guy is an absolute clown.   Most of us Americans realized this long ago.

There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1097 on: August 04, 2017, 06:52:07 am »
How can anyone who has read the transcripts of the calls Trump had with Nieto and Turnbull think this orange  opossum taint has any business being the President of the United States of America?   Head of a handed down family business, sure. Reality TV star. Perfect.   President of the United States of America?   Come the fuck on.  This guy is an absolute clown.   Most of us Americans realized this long ago.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the Senate took this action right on the heels of the phone call transcript leaks and his new, terrible, poll numbers.  I think everyone who was hoping to ride the chaos to achieve their own political goals - from Putin to the GOP- has come to the realization that Trump is just so completely incompetent that nothing can get done. 

Now that Congressional Republicans have given up on him, they'll line up on the right side of the Russia investigation. This move to protect Sessions - and therefore Mueller too - is just the start. 
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 08:19:11 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1098 on: August 04, 2017, 08:23:02 am »
The Senate also had a bipartisan bill introduced to allow a Special Prosecutor to appeal his/her firing to the Senate.  So, if passed (and it seems likely that it would), Trump can fire Session and have the new AG fire Mueller, then Mueller could appeal to the Senate and they can reinstate him.

It appears that Republicans have realized the folly of their plan to ride the Trump Crazy Train, and are now moving to protect the institutions of government from the Boy King.

Also, this Newsweek cover.  Ouch!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1099 on: August 04, 2017, 08:27:48 am »
Also, this Newsweek cover.  Ouch!

I'm pretty sure that's a bag of Cheetos on his right. Classic!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1100 on: August 04, 2017, 08:44:45 am »
I'm pretty sure that's a bag of Cheetos on his right. Classic!

The article inside isn't pretty reading.  It likens him to Al Bundy:

Quote from: Newsweek
So he sits and stews, like Al Bundy, the shoe-selling protagonist of Married ... With Children, the sitcom of roiling white discontent that predicted Trump better than any political scientist or pundit. Unsatisfying job, ungrateful children, all around him a nation in decline. Bundy dreams of the days when he was a high school football star; Trump, of his election-night romp through the Upper Midwest.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1101 on: August 04, 2017, 11:18:56 am »
If a person spends all their time golfing and watching TV, what do they do on vacation?


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1102 on: August 04, 2017, 12:10:22 pm »
If a person spends all their time golfing and watching TV, what do they do on vacation?


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The wife and I spent last weekend in Charleston, SC (great town BTW) and we were standing I line for something when a young fellow in front of us said "I usually don't do this, hey, I'm on vacation". As my wife laughed his father rolled his eyes and said "that's right...he's 9...and on vacation".
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1103 on: August 04, 2017, 12:19:05 pm »
What was the young fellow using his vacational license to do, tweet before 5 AM?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1104 on: August 04, 2017, 01:29:45 pm »
What was the young fellow using his vacational license to do, tweet before 5 AM?

I don't remember exactly, but I think it had something to do with sleeping later than usual.  Whatever it was, the responsibilities of the daily grind of being a 9 year old was clearly wearing  him out, and the chance to relax was in order. 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1105 on: August 04, 2017, 02:33:03 pm »
I don't remember exactly, but I think it had something to do with sleeping later than usual.  Whatever it was, the responsibilities of the daily grind of being a 9 year old was clearly wearing  him out, and the chance to relax was in order.

So, like Trump then.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1106 on: August 05, 2017, 08:34:41 am »
I'm pretty sure that's a bag of Cheetos on his right. Classic!

That is amazing.

Something tells me he won't be hanging that in the clubhouse next to his fake Time cover.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1107 on: August 08, 2017, 09:24:51 am »
Nope, not on vacation.  This morning he was back tweeting classified information that endangers US intelligence assets.  In this case, he retweeted a Fox and Friends story about North Korea that UN Ambassador Nikki Haley condemned as containing leaked classified intel that put Americans in danger.

Now watch this drive...
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1108 on: August 08, 2017, 09:38:33 am »
Nope, not on vacation.  This morning he was back tweeting classified information that endangers US intelligence assets.  In this case, he retweeted a Fox and Friends story about North Korea that UN Ambassador Nikki Haley condemned as containing leaked classified intel that put Americans in danger.

Now watch this drive...

I bet it was the best drive ever and went further than anyone's drive before.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1109 on: August 08, 2017, 09:56:01 am »
I bet it was the best drive ever and went further than anyone's drive before.

His golf prowess is rivaled only by Kim Jong Il.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1110 on: August 08, 2017, 09:59:29 am »
His golf prowess is rivaled only by Kim Jong Il.

I'm sure he's a decent player; he practices enough!  But I read that he never posts his scores so no one knows what he true standard actually is.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1111 on: August 08, 2017, 10:01:33 am »
I'm sure he's a decent player; he practices enough!  But I read that he never posts his scores so no one knows what he true standard actually is.

He's won 18 club championships.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1112 on: August 08, 2017, 10:01:57 am »
I'm sure he's a decent player; he practices enough!  But I read that he never posts his scores so no one knows what he true standard actually is.

He should play with Judge Smails and Dr. Beeper.  Dr. Beeper is club champion, three years running, and Smails is no slouch himself. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1113 on: August 08, 2017, 10:04:18 am »
Trump's approval rating just hit 32% in the latest poll released today.  Opposition to him remains steady among democrats and minorities etc., it's the white-collar, non-college educated rust belt voter who's moving the number.  He's losing his base.

Still, I'm sure video of him on a 17-day, tax-payer funded golf trip to a swanky country club that he owns is going to turn that around.  Eh?  Oh.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1114 on: August 08, 2017, 10:08:31 am »
Trump's approval rating just hit 32% in the latest poll released today.  Opposition to him remains steady among democrats and minorities etc., it's the white-collar, non-college educated rust belt voter who's moving the number.  He's losing his base.

Still, I'm sure video of him on a 17-day, tax-payer funded golf trip to a swanky country club that he owns is going to turn that around.  Eh?  Oh.

The good thing is though, that because he owns the country club, the money the taxpayers are paying is going back into his pocket.  So it's a win, win.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1115 on: August 08, 2017, 10:47:23 am »
The good thing is though, that because he owns the country club, the money the taxpayers are paying is going back into his pocket.  So it's a win, win.

He needs the revenue uptick after he his management team tried gouging the Secret Service so badly they decided to move out of Trump Tower.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1116 on: August 08, 2017, 02:43:31 pm »
Quick summary of the day:

1. POTUS gets 2 briefing folders a day to tell him how awesome he is;
2. The solution to the "opoid" crisis is to tell kids, "no good, really bad for you"; and
3. The solution with North Korea is "fire and fury".

/thisisfinedog.jpg
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1117 on: August 08, 2017, 03:16:36 pm »
POTUS gets 2 briefing folders a day to tell him how awesome he is;

Apparently, his nickname around the White House is "Two-Minute Man" - which he may take as a compliment but it's actually a reference to his attention span.  They have to show him pictures of nukes and the like to keep his mind on the topic at hand, but even that is unsuccessful much of the time.

For those who care to read long articles, here's one from Politico about how Trump pulling out of the TPP is dry-fucking rural America while he flails on the international stage allowing our competitors to steal a march on signing up lucrative trade deals.  This is business that be forever lost to the US.  #MAGA
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 03:20:31 pm by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1118 on: August 08, 2017, 03:20:06 pm »

3. The solution with North Korea is "fire and fury".


What good is biblical hyperbole without brimstone?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1119 on: August 08, 2017, 03:23:06 pm »
What good is biblical hyperbole without brimstone?

I thought "fire and fury" was the name for his burnt steak and catsup delicacy.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1120 on: August 08, 2017, 03:30:36 pm »
I thought "fire and fury" was the name for his burnt steak and catsup delicacy.

No, it's what he feels when he pees.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1121 on: August 08, 2017, 03:39:34 pm »
No, it's what he feels when he pees.

I thought he'd had a deferment from his own private Vietnam.

Who knows, maybe it's PTSTD.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1122 on: August 08, 2017, 03:50:19 pm »
I thought he'd had a deferment from his own private Vietnam.

Who knows, maybe it's PTSTD.

Well done.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1123 on: August 10, 2017, 08:16:26 am »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1124 on: August 10, 2017, 11:37:47 am »
So Manaforte's house was raided at dawn by the FBI a couple of weeks ago.  While he was ostensibly cooperating with the investigation - notably after they subpoenaed him - the Feds were worried that he might destroy documents in the meantime.

While that's hilarious interesting, what's more interesting is that it seems that Manaforte was the source who gave up the details on Don Jr's big Russian baby meeting.  While a lot of Trump's inner circle is also his immediate family and in-laws, I can see everyone not related to Sr rolling over and singing like the dawn chorus.  They'll ringfence the Trump clan and Trump himself will be left with a literal Sophie's Choice as to which kid he's going to throw to the wolves [oh...um...spoiler alert].

Note to self:  buy shares in Orville Redenbacher.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 11:40:32 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1125 on: August 10, 2017, 12:10:44 pm »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1126 on: August 13, 2017, 02:43:58 am »
Fuck Trump and all the Nazi & KKK people that voted for him.   What sad human being he is.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1127 on: August 14, 2017, 08:35:22 am »
Forget about 3am phone calls, Trump is failing every test that comes his way as President.  It takes a special kind of man to have threatening nuclear war be the second worst thing he did last week.

On that whole nuclear thing...Maddow has been pulling at a thread on this.  The Defense Intelligence Agency first declared that NK had miniaturized a nuclear warhead in 2013.  There was no outcry at the time and, notably, the story was debunked very quickly by pretty much every other intelligence agency, American or otherwise.  The head of the DIA - one Gen. Michael Flynn - was fired because of this and because of grave concerns about how he was running the agency.

So, in 2017, the story breaks again.  It's leaked to the Washington Post - from the DIA again - and Trump starts beating his war drum.  Unlike 2013, the report was not immediately debunked by other agencies, so it seemed that it was only a matter of time before the confirmations started rolling in.  Except that they haven't.  It's still not been debunked, but no one else in the US or anywhere is claiming to have confirmed the same intelligence.  So what we have is Trump's DIA leaking an uncorroborated horror story which Trump used - finally - to move Russia off the front page.

Maddow isn't saying the story is bullshit; but the longer it goes without being seconded the more it starts to whiff.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1128 on: August 14, 2017, 06:50:00 pm »
Fuck Trump and all the Nazi & KKK people that voted for him.   What sad human being he is.

At least he finally denounced the "truly bad people" (in his words) today: the media.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1129 on: August 14, 2017, 08:00:09 pm »
At least he finally denounced the "truly bad people" (in his words) today: the media.
Did he call them Radical Islamists Bad Hombres Domestic Terrorists?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1130 on: August 15, 2017, 08:11:50 am »
Did he call them Radical Islamists Bad Hombres Domestic Terrorists?

Nasty women.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1131 on: August 15, 2017, 04:11:02 pm »
I see that Trump could only maintain his fake concern for 24 hours and is now back to the both sides shit.  In Trump's ideal world, no one would have ever opposed the Nazis or the Klan and presumably, everything would have been hunky dory.


 

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1132 on: August 15, 2017, 04:45:15 pm »
I see that Trump could only maintain his fake concern for 24 hours and is now back to the both sides shit.  In Trump's ideal world, no one would have ever opposed the Nazis or the Klan and presumably, everything would have been hunky dory.

He referred to the white supremacists as "very fine people."  He says many sides but is making it very clear which side he is on. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1133 on: August 15, 2017, 04:49:39 pm »
He referred to the white supremacists as "very fine people."  He says many sides but is making it very clear which side he is on. 

No joke:

TRUMP: Okay, what about the alt-left that came charging at us – excuse me – what about the alt-left that came charging at the, as you say, the alt right? Do they have any semblance of guilt?

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1134 on: August 15, 2017, 05:13:57 pm »
Here's the transcript..

Excerpts:

The statement I made on Saturday, the first statement, was a fine statement, but you don't make statements that direct unless you know the fact. And it takes a little while to get the facts. You still don't know the facts. And it is a very, very important process to me. It is a very important statement. So I don't want to go quickly and just make a statement for the sake of making a political statement. I want to know the facts. If you go back to my statement, in fact I brought it. I brought it.

This is from the piece of shit who spent five years claiming that Obama wasn't an American citizen and spent the first few days in office screaming about fake crowd sizes.

Okay, what about the alt-left that came charging at us – excuse me – what about the alt-left that came charging at the, as you say, the alt right? Do they have any semblance of guilt?

"Us" speaks volumes. [Note - the "us" is a apparently a transcription error, but his description of the events amazingly frames the white supremacists, KKK and neo-nazis, who descended upon this town to preach genocide and one of whom murdered an unarmed woman, as the victims.]

And you had, you had a group on one side that was bad. And you had a group on the other side that was also very violent. And nobody wants to say that, but I'll say it right now. You had a group – you had a group on the other side that came charging in without a permit, and they were very, very violent.

The "sides" are white supremacists, KKK, neo-nazis on the one hand, and people who are not white supremacists, KKK, neo-nazis on the other hand.

Many of those people were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. So this week, it’s Robert E. Lee, I noticed that Stonewall Jackson’s coming down. I wonder, is it George Washington next week? And is it Thomas Jefferson the week after. You know, you really do have to ask yourself, where does it stop?

He does not understand the difference between George Washington and Robert E. Lee.  This is amazingly stupid, and also a typical white supremacist defense of Jim Crowe monuments that people want removed.  Right in line with his "cherish our history" dog whistle that Miller or Bannon wrote for him the other day.

REPORTER: Does the statue of Robert E. Lee stay up?

TRUMP: I would say that’s up to a local town, community or the federal government, depending on where it is located.


The Charlottesville city council voted to remove the statue.  The racist protesters came mostly from out of town to prevent the city's determination.

REPORTER: You said there was hatred and violence on both sides?

TRUMP: I do think there is blame – yes, I think there is blame on both sides. You look at, you look at both sides. I think there’s blame on both sides, and I have no doubt about it, and you don't have any doubt about it either. And, and, and, and if you reported it accurately, you would say.

REPORTER: The neo-Nazis started this thing. They showed up in Charlottesville.

TRUMP: Excuse me, they didn't put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.


The "very fine people" on the white supremacist, KKK, neo-nazi side were white supremacists, KKK, neo-nazis.  They were waiving swastikas and giving hitler salutes. 

Naturally, David Duke and Stormfront and the like are enthusiastically praising his comments. 
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 06:07:25 pm by Bench »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1135 on: August 15, 2017, 05:17:14 pm »
They are saying "us" was a transcript error
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1136 on: August 15, 2017, 05:23:29 pm »
They are saying "us" was a transcript error

Possibly.  It's also one of Trump's normal verbal tics.  He generally defaults to making anything about him.  For instance, here is what he had to say about the woman who was killed by the white supremacist:

In fact, the young woman who I hear is a fantastic young woman and it was on NBC, her mother wrote me and said through I guess Twitter, social media, the nicest things, and I very much appreciated that. I hear she was a fine, really actually an incredible young woman, but her mother on Twitter, thanked me for what I said.

His version of expressing condolences and sharing grief is "she said nice things about me."
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1137 on: August 15, 2017, 05:41:41 pm »
They are saying "us" was a transcript error

Well, that's a relief. Good to know he's not a racist cumstain or anything.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1138 on: August 15, 2017, 05:43:04 pm »
Well, that's a relief. Good to know he's not a racist cumstain or anything.

crisis averted
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1139 on: August 15, 2017, 05:46:43 pm »
crisis averted

I think we can all agree that it's time to move on to more pressing matters like Sing Sing and Old Sparky for the Central Park Five.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1140 on: August 15, 2017, 06:09:30 pm »
Emotional turmoil and physical violence caused by symbolism, stupidity, and hurt feelings.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1141 on: August 15, 2017, 06:16:41 pm »
I think we can all agree that it's time to move on to more pressing matters like Sing Sing and Old Sparky for the Central Park Five.

Or that Clinton's pastor plagiarized part of his new book.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1142 on: August 15, 2017, 06:21:52 pm »
Or that Clinton's pastor plagiarized part of his new book.

People are saying he lifted it directly from Two Corinthians.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1143 on: August 15, 2017, 09:08:46 pm »
Just saw the video of his remarks.  They're even more gobsmacking when given such context.  He was arguing with the press and expressing moral indignation that his soft peddling of this Nazi mob was being challenged. 

Did you know the Fred Trump was once arrested at a Klan rally?   Don denies it but contemporary news reports say otherwise.   Apple...tree   
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1144 on: August 16, 2017, 09:22:13 am »
People are saying he lifted it directly from Two Corinthians.

Or from Kim Jong-Un's dad, Kim Jong the Second*.

* Trump did actually say this.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1145 on: August 16, 2017, 12:49:43 pm »
Or from Kim Jong-Un's dad, Kim Jong the Second*.

* Trump did actually say this.

I knew that good old GW had referred to him as "Kim Jong Two" and that Rick Perry had taken a break from a passionate pas de deux at some point to refer to him as "Kim Jong the Second." So it is at some level unsurprising that the president would find himself in such estimable company.

On the other hand, these small faux pas would seem to suggest that the above-mentioned members of our constitutional élite had seen Dear Leader Kim's name in print, the inescapable implication being that information was absorbed while reading.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1146 on: August 16, 2017, 02:44:40 pm »
I knew that good old GW had referred to him as "Kim Jong Two" and that Rick Perry had taken a break from a passionate pas de deux at some point to refer to him as "Kim Jong the Second." So it is at some level unsurprising that the president would find himself in such estimable company.

On the other hand, these small faux pas would seem to suggest that the above-mentioned members of our constitutional élite had seen Dear Leader Kim's name in print, the inescapable implication being that information was absorbed while reading.

That's true, but it also suggests a crushing lack of knowledge prior to his political career.  I mean, who hadn't heard of Kim Jong-Il by 2016?  It's similar to his appearance alongside Erdogan of Turkey - on multiple occasions, Trump pronounced that name with a hard "g".  Clearly, he'd never even discussed the man before the press op, because if he had he'd have heard the correct pronunciation.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1147 on: August 17, 2017, 07:15:46 am »
That's true, but it also suggests a crushing lack of knowledge prior to his political career.  I mean, who hadn't heard of Kim Jong-Il by 2016?  It's similar to his appearance alongside Erdogan of Turkey - on multiple occasions, Trump pronounced that name with a hard "g".  Clearly, he'd never even discussed the man before the press op, because if he had he'd have heard the correct pronunciation.

or everyone else has been mispronouncing it.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1148 on: August 17, 2017, 07:25:56 am »
Here's the transcript..

It amazes me how many people are feeling more comfortable making racists posts on Facebook.  I am also shocked that I still know people that are supporting what Trump said.  My niece and I have taken on the task of trying to educate her aunt (other side of her family).    She recently went to Germany and has strong feelings about removing confederate statues.
She had a post about removing statues of Lenin and here was part of our conversation.
Me: Take them down. I'm curious did you see any Nazi statues in Germany?
Her: No
Me:  Wonder why they aren't proud they fought in WWII.
Her  Hitler killed WHITE people. It's against the law in Germany for anyone to do the Hitler salute. So I guess your saying that everyone who fought in the Confederate war did it for nothing, they lost their lives for nothing, they are veterans just like Tommy Joe, our uncles and all

She saw nothing wrong with her statement.  She thinks removing statues is rewriting history.  That there is Christianity in the confederate flag.  For each racist post she has she then has one with a prayer for people.  These are the people that don't understand (or want to understand) what racism is.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1149 on: August 17, 2017, 08:18:09 am »
When is the Sam Houston statue at Hermann Park coming down?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1150 on: August 17, 2017, 08:28:30 am »
or everyone else has been mispronouncing it.

No possible; he hired the "best people".
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1151 on: August 17, 2017, 08:44:21 am »
It amazes me how many people are feeling more comfortable making racists posts on Facebook.  I am also shocked that I still know people that are supporting what Trump said.  My niece and I have taken on the task of trying to educate her aunt (other side of her family).    She recently went to Germany and has strong feelings about removing confederate statues.
She had a post about removing statues of Lenin and here was part of our conversation.
Me: Take them down. I'm curious did you see any Nazi statues in Germany?
Her: No
Me:  Wonder why they aren't proud they fought in WWII.
Her  Hitler killed WHITE people. It's against the law in Germany for anyone to do the Hitler salute. So I guess your saying that everyone who fought in the Confederate war did it for nothing, they lost their lives for nothing, they are veterans just like Tommy Joe, our uncles and all

She saw nothing wrong with her statement.  She thinks removing statues is rewriting history.  That there is Christianity in the confederate flag.  For each racist post she has she then has one with a prayer for people.  These are the people that don't understand (or want to understand) what racism is.

As (I think) Stephen Colbert put it, Trump has traded in his racist dog whistle for a racist vuvuzela.  Leadership (or lack thereof) matters, so his veiled support for the white supremacist movement is heard loud and clear by those in that movement - as has been born out by grateful tweets from the likes of David Duke.  The fact that the KKK will march without hoods (and lit by tiki-torchlight) is a frightening development.

Today in the House, three Democrats plan to introduce a censure motion against Trump for his tacit support to the neo-Nazis et al.  It's toothless, but it will get people to go on record whether they will stand up for what's right or not.  It's not like it's a tough decision; but for many it'll be a tough political decision, which is desperately sad.

Meanwhile, here's a very good article comparing and contrasting how the U.S. handles its Confederate history to how Germany handles its Nazi history.

A point of order about the Lee statue though, is that they weren't removing it, they were moving it to a location with less prominence.  My understanding is that it's current position dominates the town, so the democratically elected town council voted to move it to de-emphasise it.  Also, it was put up in 1924, during a time where white supremacy and the KKK were having arguably their heyday and when the reason for the civil war was being morphed from a fight about slavery to a fight about states' rights.  Many of these statues earmarked for movement were erected during this period, so they're not so much celebrating the individuals as celebrating the supremacy of white supremacy at that time.  Moving them isn't so much whitewashing history, it's undoing the whitewashing of history that was done 50 years or so after the event.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1152 on: August 17, 2017, 08:47:05 am »
When is the Sam Houston statue at Hermann Park coming down?

Sam Houston wasn't a traitor. He resigned rather than fight against the United States, and refused to make any oath to the Confederacy.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1153 on: August 17, 2017, 08:56:02 am »
Interesting article but one that could be used to argue against removing confederate statues.

I told a friend the other day that one of the best things about america is free speech and yet it is one of the worst things too.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1154 on: August 17, 2017, 09:29:18 am »
Sam Houston wasn't a traitor. He resigned rather than fight against the United States, and refused to make any oath to the Confederacy.
So the barometer is not slave ownership? I'm never sure about the lines of demarcation when it comes to these things.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1155 on: August 17, 2017, 10:05:40 am »
So the barometer is not slave ownership? I'm never sure about the lines of demarcation when it comes to these things.

I think the barometer should be the reason behind the honor of the monument.  For example, Washington is honored for leading the revolutionary war and being the first President; Jefferson is honored for writing the Constitution etc. etc.  The fact that they were slave owners is a flaw that is passed over because of the time in which they existed and did their good works.

Lee was a slave owner who fought for the right to keep his human property despite the law of the land saying otherwise.  The statue, at best, honors that fight and, at worst, honors the resurgence of white supremacy in the 1920s.  The statue itself bears no inscription - to my knowledge - other than the man's name.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1156 on: August 17, 2017, 10:11:23 am »
Lee wrote that he did not support the erection of confederate monuments, or the use of confederate flags.  So we really don't honor him much...

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1157 on: August 17, 2017, 10:11:51 am »
Interesting article but one that could be used to argue against removing confederate statues.

I told a friend the other day that one of the best things about america is free speech and yet it is one of the worst things too.

I agree that the article does show the argument "on many sides".  What it tells me is that there isn't a one size fits all response here, and that Confederate monuments need to be assessed based on the merits of each - such as the historical message - compared to the offense it generates.  In this case, moving the statue and, presumably, providing a more informative inscription, does not seem unreasonable to me.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 10:13:27 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1158 on: August 17, 2017, 10:12:19 am »
So the barometer is not slave ownership? I'm never sure about the lines of demarcation when it comes to these things.
I think you ask yourself: why is this guy here, enshrined in front of my eyes?

If you can't answer it, and yet know that the enshrinement insults your neighbors, you do what any decent neighbor would do and at a minimum, do not oppose its removal.

If it is because he was a leader of something you admire or miss, flesh out why you admire or miss it.

If you answer "cause he owned slaves," then I guess you now have an additional reason to admire the Jefferson and Washington statues.

At any rate, I doubt anyone steps in front of Washington's statue and says "Damn, I really admire him for owning slaves."

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1159 on: August 17, 2017, 10:32:00 am »
I think the barometer should be the reason behind the honor of the monument.  For example, Washington is honored for leading the revolutionary war and being the first President; Jefferson is honored for writing the Constitution etc. etc.  The fact that they were slave owners is a flaw that is passed over because of the time in which they existed and did their good works.

Lee was a slave owner who fought for the right to keep his human property despite the law of the land saying otherwise.  The statue, at best, honors that fight and, at worst, honors the resurgence of white supremacy in the 1920s.  The statue itself bears no inscription - to my knowledge - other than the man's name.

I'm not defending keeping the shrines up. And there is no such thing as the noble slave owner. Nor will I make the comparison to the Taliban destroying some 6000 Buddhist antiquities. However, did not Jefferson and Washington both participate in a revolt against the law of the land? Were they not traitors to their King?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1160 on: August 17, 2017, 10:33:47 am »
However, did not Jefferson and Washington both participate in a revolt against the law of the land? Were they not traitors to their King?

They did! They were!

Hey Limey, can you show me all the monuments to Washington and Jefferson in Britain?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1161 on: August 17, 2017, 10:49:03 am »
They did! They were!

Hey Limey, can you show me all the monuments to Washington and Jefferson in Britain?

Funny. Washington's is right there in front of the National Gallery on Trafalgar Square. They also have statues of guys like Robert Clive and his ilk.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1162 on: August 17, 2017, 10:55:14 am »
I'm not defending keeping the shrines up. And there is no such thing as the noble slave owner. Nor will I make the comparison to the Taliban destroying some 6000 Buddhist antiquities. However, did not Jefferson and Washington both participate in a revolt against the law of the land? Were they not traitors to their King?

Yeah, but they won, so...statue!

Also (tongue removed from cheek), it's ok to honor losing generals too.  Half of the symbols of British pride are in honor of heroic defeat: Scott of the Antarctic, Gordon of Khartoum, Dunkirk...  But, again, I think it's the intent behind the honor so, in the case of British losers, it's celebrating the men whereas the Confederate monuments have a strong whiff of honoring the Confederacy, not the individuals.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1163 on: August 17, 2017, 10:56:17 am »
Funny. Washington's is right there in front of the National Gallery on Trafalgar Square. They also have statues of guys like Robert Clive and his ilk.

To be fair, we probably stole those on the way out.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1164 on: August 17, 2017, 11:02:28 am »
Funny. Washington's is right there in front of the National Gallery on Trafalgar Square. They also have statues of guys like Robert Clive and his ilk.

Interesting, good on them for being gracious losers? But while Robert Clive was likely a bad guy, he never fought against the Crown. The equivalent you're looking for is Guy Fawkes. Does he have a statue? (I honestly don't know)


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1165 on: August 17, 2017, 11:03:03 am »
Funny. Washington's is right there in front of the National Gallery on Trafalgar Square. They also have statues of guys like Robert Clive and his ilk.

6 Presidents total, although Kennedy's is only a bust, not a full statue (presumably because they couldn't show him from the waist down as Marylin was down there).
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1166 on: August 17, 2017, 11:06:11 am »
Interesting, good on them for being gracious losers? But while Robert Clive was likely a bad guy, he never fought against the Crown. The equivalent you're looking for is Guy Fawkes. Does he have a statue? (I honestly don't know)

No statue that I'm aware of, but every November 5th, we burn his effigy, set off fireworks, drink too much and lose too many appendages to accidents.

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The Gunpowder Treason and plot;
I know of no reason why Gunpowder Treason
Should ever be forgot
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1167 on: August 17, 2017, 11:09:45 am »
The equivalent you're looking for is Guy Fawkes. Does he have a statue? (I honestly don't know)
I had to look it up. they do. Didn't have to look up the pacifist rebel Ghandi.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 11:11:29 am by Sphinx Drummond »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1168 on: August 17, 2017, 12:17:01 pm »
Half of the symbols of British pride are in honor of heroic defeat: Scott of the Antarctic, Gordon of Khartoum, Dunkirk...

Alf Ramsey...
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1169 on: August 17, 2017, 03:51:01 pm »
Alf Ramsey...

Hey!  Now that's fighting talk!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1170 on: August 18, 2017, 10:08:37 am »
Here's a great speech. Definitely worth taking the time to read.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1171 on: August 18, 2017, 01:59:37 pm »
Here's a great speech. Definitely worth taking the time to read.

That really articulates the issue well.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1172 on: August 18, 2017, 03:19:55 pm »
Well, Kelly sacks his first high profile victim:  Steve Bannon out.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1173 on: August 18, 2017, 03:36:54 pm »
Well, Kelly sacks his first high profile victim:  Steve Bannon out.

Hopefully Gorka and Miller are soon to follow.  If you're going to have an openly racist president at least get rid of the people egging him on. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1174 on: August 18, 2017, 04:22:19 pm »
Hopefully Gorka and Miller are soon to follow.  If you're going to have an openly racist president at least get rid of the people egging him on.

So one quote I heard today is "Now Bannon will be pissing on the tent from the outside"
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1175 on: August 18, 2017, 05:32:16 pm »
So one quote I heard today is "Now Bannon will be pissing on the tent from the outside"

Probably.  And the Bannon - Drudge war should be amusing.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1176 on: August 18, 2017, 07:22:03 pm »
Probably.  And the Bannon - Drudge war should be amusing.

I'll be curious to see whether Bannon/Breitbart aim at Trump or at Javanka et al.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1177 on: August 18, 2017, 10:17:36 pm »
I'll be curious to see whether Bannon/Breitbart aim at Trump or at Javanka et al.

Bannon says he's going to dedicate himself to continuing pushing Trump's agenda. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1178 on: August 21, 2017, 10:33:23 am »
Bannon says he's going to dedicate himself to continuing pushing Trump's agenda.

He also said that the Trump administration as we knew it is over.  What that means, who the fuck knows?  What we do know is that Bannon was supposed to have a smooth, controlled exit until he shit all over himself with the American Prospect interview and torpedoed that plan.  Breitbart has since gone after McMaster and Kushner, so we can expect to see more and more fallout as Bannon fails to control himself and starts pissing more Palace intrigue over the interwebs.

Meanwhile, counting the continuing collateral damage from his Charlottesville musings, Trump has now disbanded (mostly retroactively after they emptied out) the American Manufacturing Council, his Strategy and Policy Forum, his Advisory Council on Infrastructure, the Digital Economy Board of Advisors and the Committee on the Arts and Humanities.

Ironically, Trump's unofficial Evangelical Advisory Council is holding firm with the President, with the exception of New York City megachurch pastor A.R. Bernard, who announced Friday that he had stepped down.  It's also worth noting that the Sunday shows reached out to Republicans - any Republicans - to get them to come on TV and defend Trump; none would.  The White House would not offer any administration officials either, and offered up Jerry Fartwell Jr. instead.  That didn't go so well as he suggested that Trump knew there were good people in the pro-Nazi, anti-Jew chanting hoards, because he had secret tapes or something.

So, while everyone tries to get to a minimum safe distance from Trump, evangelical leaders are mostly staying with him.  Because...that's what Jesus would do?

ETA:  It's now believed that 10 charities and other organisations have cancelled events at Mar-a-Lago.  While not citing the Trump's Nazi-hugging directly, each stated that they did not want their event to be associated with the President.  Although, with the Bedminster resort joining Mar-e-Coli on the kitchen violation list, I'm not sure why anyone would want to go to these places without a hazmat suit.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 11:00:31 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1179 on: August 21, 2017, 02:30:02 pm »
In just seven short months, Trump was able to bring back an eclipse to the US.  Obama had EIGHT YEARS!!!  Nada. Nothing.  Not even a partial.  Sad. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1180 on: August 21, 2017, 03:04:25 pm »
In just seven short months, Trump was able to bring back an eclipse to the US.  Obama had EIGHT YEARS!!!  Nada. Nothing.  Not even a partial.  Sad.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1181 on: August 21, 2017, 03:21:31 pm »
MAKE AMERICA BLIND AGAIN

To a significant degree I think we've got that covered.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1183 on: August 22, 2017, 08:26:43 am »
You were saying...

He is literally a child.  "Now Donny, don't look directly at the sun without your special glasses on..."
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1184 on: August 22, 2017, 08:57:37 am »
He is literally a child.  "Now Donny, don't look directly at the sun without your special glasses on..."

"What did I just tell you..."
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1185 on: August 22, 2017, 01:36:53 pm »
When future generations study the inevitable collapse of this society they will marvel at shit like this. I don't mean Trump - everyone knows he's a fucking imbecile - I mean the idiot in the inset who is for no apparent reason wearing eclipse glasses as she addresses the camera.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1186 on: August 22, 2017, 01:51:53 pm »
Am I the only one that sees parallels between this and the end of the Roman Empire?  Just think about Trump and some of those emperors.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1187 on: August 22, 2017, 02:28:24 pm »
It's not like the back-up is much better.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1188 on: August 22, 2017, 02:28:54 pm »
Am I the only one that sees parallels between this and the end of the Roman Empire?  Just think about Trump and some of those emperors.

This is how all empires end; they rot from the inside.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1189 on: August 22, 2017, 03:18:04 pm »
When future generations study the inevitable collapse of this society they will marvel at shit like this. I don't mean Trump - everyone knows he's a fucking imbecile - I mean the idiot in the inset who is for no apparent reason wearing eclipse glasses as she addresses the camera.

We need more people like Jeff Sessions, who I think is about to sing something from The Sound of Music.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1190 on: August 22, 2017, 03:33:27 pm »
We need more people like Jeff Sessions, who I think is about to sing something from The Sound of Music.

Wagner, rather, I would think.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1191 on: August 22, 2017, 05:04:55 pm »
We need more people like Jeff Sessions, who I think is about to sing something from The Sound of Music.

I'm sure he's s not a South Pacific fan.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1192 on: August 24, 2017, 08:58:57 am »
So Glenn Simpson - the founder of Fusion GPS, the organisation that ordered up the Steele dossier on Trump (the peepee party file published by Buzzfeed) - spent more than 10 hours testifying in closed session to the Senate Intelligence Committee.  Fusion GPS also turned over around 40,000 documents to the committee.

Now, the uproar over the golden shower aspects of the Steele dossier kind of drowned out the 99% of the findings that didn't involve hooker whizz, but did involve the explanation of how the Russians had been cultivating Trump for years, while at the same time collecting kompromat to use against him when the time came.  Ironically, the Russians found that they didn't need blackmail to get Trump to do what they wanted, he would do it willingly.

While the squawking about the dossier has died down since its controversial publication by Buzzfeed, over time the less salacious aspects of the findings have been independently confirmed.  I understand that, while not everything has been verified, things have only been confirmed and nothing has yet been found to be false (this may be because they started with the low hanging fruit).  People in the know describe Christopher Steele as a serious operator, as you might expect from a former MI6 agent, so it would be unlikely that he'd come up with a fake account especially one with such outlandish details.

So this brings us back to Simpson and his Senate testimony.  Chuck Grassley - the committee chairman - has been asked about publishing the testimony.  He equivocated, claiming that the transcript needs to be checked and approved by Simpson but otherwise he has no current objections to releasing the transcript.  Well, there is no obligation on the committee to allow the interviewee to confirm the transcript, and Simpson has said that he's happy for them to publish the whole thing along with all the 40,000 or so documents.

Simpson's testimony, the Steele dossier and all that supporting documentation now provided has been described as a road map to the Trump-Russia scandal.  Watch this space...
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 09:03:52 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1193 on: August 26, 2017, 08:10:59 am »
Trump has pardoned Arpaio. It's a new day in the nation, and it's not a good one.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1194 on: August 26, 2017, 09:26:02 am »
Trump has pardoned Arpaio. It's a new day in the nation, and it's not a good one.
Now he can take his seat when he runs for the Senate

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1195 on: August 26, 2017, 11:12:14 am »
Trump has pardoned Arpaio. It's a new day in the nation, and it's not a good one.

With a stroke of his pen he has further emboldened his racist supporters and signaled to his staff that they needn't worry about Mueller.  Disgusting. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1196 on: September 05, 2017, 08:24:03 am »
Back to regularly scheduled terror:

Trump:  "...fire and fury like the world has never seen."
Kim Jong-Un:  "Hold my beer..."


Oh, and repealing DACA?  This clown's default setting is cruel.  It's also stupid because the US rakes in $800mm every two years in registration fees from the Dreamers.  91% of them are employed, 100% of them have no criminal record and they're buying cars and houses and shit.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1197 on: September 05, 2017, 08:44:10 am »
I thought I read a headline in the Chronicle that undocumented labor will likely be needed to rebuild Houston.  Or maybe droves of folks from the Midwest will be coming down.  I wonder which.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1198 on: September 05, 2017, 09:04:02 am »
I thought I read a headline in the Chronicle that undocumented labor will likely be needed to rebuild Houston.  Or maybe droves of folks from the Midwest will be coming down.  I wonder which.

Don't worry, Turmp is going to give Texas so much recovery money (Florida won't need any) that we won't need the undocumented workers.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1199 on: September 05, 2017, 09:45:33 am »
Don't worry, Turmp is going to give Texas so much recovery money (Florida won't need any) that we won't need the undocumented workers.

Not from his pocket, of course.

Oh, I forgot he "pledged" $1M - which, if ever paid, will come from the Trump Foundation, to which he doesn't contribute a dime.


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Bench

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1200 on: September 05, 2017, 09:58:27 am »
Oh, and repealing DACA?  This clown's default setting is cruel.  It's also stupid because the US rakes in $800mm every two years in registration fees from the Dreamers.  91% of them are employed, 100% of them have no criminal record and they're buying cars and houses and shit.

There is no policy reason for repealing DACA other than racist cruelty. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1201 on: September 05, 2017, 10:15:49 am »
Not from his pocket, of course.

Oh, I forgot he "pledged" $1M - which, if ever paid, will come from the Trump Foundation, to which he doesn't contribute a dime.

The Trump Foundation is currently embargoed while it tries to sort out legal issues around other charitable deeds such as paying off Donald's civil fines and buying him a painting of himself to hand in his own country club.

There is no way Trump coughs up out of his own pocket - he has a history of this.  Sarah Sanders was equivocating on this as early as last Friday when being pressed by reporters for when Trump would make good on his pledge from the previous Tuesday.  She refused to confirm that it would be his own money but, with the foundation shuttered, it seems that he has two options: pay up or take the heat.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 10:20:47 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1202 on: September 05, 2017, 10:21:47 am »
The Trump Foundation is currently embargoed while it tries to sort out legal issues around other charitable deeds such as paying off Donald's civil fines and buying him a painting of himself to hand in his own country club.

There is no way Trump coughs up out of his own pocket - he has a history of this.  Sarah Sanders was equivocating on this as early as last Friday when being pressed by reporters for when Trump would make good on his pledge from the previous Tuesday.  She refused to confirm that it would be his own money but, with the foundation shuttered, it seems that he has two options: pay up or take the heat.

He can't do it because there's an audit.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1203 on: September 05, 2017, 10:45:48 am »
There is no policy reason for repealing DACA other than racist cruelty.
The human race is the cruelest of them all.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1204 on: September 05, 2017, 12:14:15 pm »
There is no policy reason for repealing DACA other than racist cruelty.

It is so bizarrely economically idiotic that it amazes me that anyone would publicly express support for it. But then, it's cool to be racist again.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1205 on: September 05, 2017, 02:56:14 pm »
91% of them are employed, 100% of them have no criminal record

I think you've stepped in some fake news.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1206 on: September 05, 2017, 03:01:17 pm »
I think you've stepped in some fake news.

How so?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1207 on: September 05, 2017, 03:03:38 pm »
How so?

That's not what they said on Breitbart.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1208 on: September 05, 2017, 03:06:49 pm »
How so?

It is not a fact that zero DREAMers have a criminal record, nor that 91% are actually employed. These statistics came from an online poll.

The questionnaire was administered to an online panel of DACA recipients recruited by the partner organizations.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1209 on: September 05, 2017, 03:13:24 pm »
It is so bizarrely economically idiotic that it amazes me that anyone would publicly express support for it. But then, it's cool to be racist again.

Trump couldn't even muster the backbone to do this himself; he had Sessions announce the change which involves pulling the pin on the grenade and lobbing into Congress' butter-laced hands.  He hasn't even come out and said what he wants back from Congress, so there's no guarantee that he'll sign what they send him.  Such a weak, sad, cruel person. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1210 on: September 05, 2017, 03:38:45 pm »
It is not a fact that zero DREAMers have a criminal record, nor that 91% are actually employed. These statistics came from an online poll.

The questionnaire was administered to an online panel of DACA recipients recruited by the partner organizations.

This is lame.  It is a fact that in order to be eligible for DACA the applicant cannot have been convicted of a felony, significant misdemeanor or three misdemeanors.  It is a fact that in order to be eligible the applicant must be in high school or have a high school degree.  And the results of the survey regarding employment are the latest data points, and are in line with a 2014 UCLA study finding an 84% employment rate among DACA recipients. 

The program gives basic protection to people that have grown up knowing no other home than this country, who have worked hard, and have stayed out of trouble.  In addition to the fact that it's just fucking mean to ruin these people's lives for no reason (and the lives of their children who are US citizens), deporting them would reduce the national GDP by $433 billion over the next 10 years. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1211 on: September 05, 2017, 03:41:48 pm »
This is lame.

I agree. The poll and those who state the results of the poll as fact are both lame.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1212 on: September 05, 2017, 03:56:25 pm »
As are those who fail to address the issue head on, in an honest manner.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1213 on: September 05, 2017, 04:01:12 pm »
Jeff Sessions made a strong case that this is about the rule of law, so there's only one possible solution:  Trump must pardon all the Dreamers the same way he did Joe Arpaio.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1214 on: September 05, 2017, 04:05:29 pm »
Jeff Sessions made a strong case that this is about the rule of law, so there's only one possible solution:  Trump must pardon all the Dreamers the same way he did Joe Arpaio.

But for the fact there is no crime from which to pardon them ...
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1215 on: September 05, 2017, 04:10:20 pm »
As are those who fail to address the issue head on, in an honest manner.

Labeling everyone that has a different opinion cruel racists is pretty honest about any actual desire to address issues head on.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1216 on: September 05, 2017, 04:40:57 pm »
Labeling everyone that has a different opinion cruel racists is pretty honest about any actual desire to address issues head on.

The fact that supposedly pragmatic, bottom-line, business-minded Republicans are happy to do hundreds of billions of dollars of damage to the national economy tells me pretty clearly just exactly what the fuck is behind this.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1217 on: September 05, 2017, 04:51:57 pm »
Labeling everyone that has a different opinion cruel racists is pretty honest about any actual desire to address issues head on.

There are also assholes who may not be overtly cruel racists but are all too happy to defend and endorse the overtly cruel racists. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1218 on: September 05, 2017, 05:13:44 pm »
Labeling everyone that has a different opinion cruel racists is pretty honest about any actual desire to address issues head on.
Labeling aside, I've at least heard actual arguments and rebuttals on one side of the issue: moral, economic, no fault of their own, screened for criminality, etc.  What I haven't heard much of is arguments on the other side, other than "rule of law."  What are the other arguments?

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1219 on: September 05, 2017, 06:48:33 pm »
There are also assholes who may not be overtly cruel racists but are all too happy to defend and endorse the overtly cruel racists.
This probably wont make sense because it requires one to be able to make observations from multiple perspectives and abandon preconceived notions but there are the simpletons who so love to make race an issue that they can't see past the claims of "racial cruelty" to understand it's purely a political move. i.e. If the vast majority of "dreamers" were Republican voters instead of Democrat voters--Obama would never had issued the executive order. It's one of the reasons I hate the dogmatic insular absoluteness of the Us vs Them political agendas.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1220 on: September 05, 2017, 06:53:32 pm »
That post places you firmly in the racist asshole category - in perpetuity.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1221 on: September 05, 2017, 07:11:06 pm »
That post places you firmly in the racist asshole category - in perpetuity.
But I have Asperger's.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1222 on: September 05, 2017, 07:13:42 pm »
This probably wont make sense because it requires one to be able to make observations from multiple perspectives and abandon preconceived notions but there are the simpletons who so love to make race an issue that they can't see past the claims of "racial cruelty" to understand it's purely a political move. i.e. If the vast majority of "dreamers" were Republican voters instead of Democrat voters--Obama would never had issued the executive order. It's one of the reasons I hate the dogmatic insular absoluteness of the Us vs Them political agendas.
They weren't voters at all. More importantly, your cynicism apparently leaves no room that Obama may have done it out of simple decency.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1223 on: September 05, 2017, 07:19:42 pm »
They weren't voters at all. More importantly, your cynicism apparently leaves no room that Obama may have done it out of simple decency.
I know you are capable of seeing beyond the surface, you just have to try. They will be voters, they have family.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1224 on: September 05, 2017, 07:40:02 pm »
I know you are capable of seeing beyond the surface, you just have to try. They will be voters, they have family.

Not if this dickhead (who you apparently think is fine because you 'hate Hillary') has his way. He wants to fucking deport them. Did you not catch that?

I know you. Some. I know you can try less hard to be a total dumbass.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1225 on: September 05, 2017, 08:05:55 pm »
I know you. Some. I know you can try less hard to be a total dumbass.
I didn't mean to imply I want anyone deported or that I supported anything Trump is doing. I was just pointing out that Trump's motivation is political and about nationality, not race. The differences don't seem that subtle to me. I would be real surprised if they get deported. Pretty sure it wont ever come to that. God, I hope not.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1226 on: September 05, 2017, 08:20:54 pm »
He has no idea where these kids are from. He's doing it to appeal to the baser instincts of his supporters, a majority of whom tellingly self identify as Christian.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1227 on: September 05, 2017, 08:36:37 pm »
He has no idea where these kids are from. He's doing it to appeal to the baser instincts of his supporters, a majority of whom tellingly self identify as Christian.
Ugh. Damn Christians fuck everything up. Hehehe...
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1228 on: September 05, 2017, 08:40:36 pm »
Ugh. Damn Christians fuck everything up. Hehehe...

Take a stand for something, dude. Seriously. For once in your life. It certainly needn't be something I stand for. Just commit to something that strikes you as good and pure. I'm not speaking as my persona here but as me as the person you know. Some.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1229 on: September 05, 2017, 08:52:45 pm »
I stand for love, my brother. I stand for happiness. I bow down to Nature. I don't stand for Democrats or Republicans. That's just not how I'm wired. It's not something I need. The barrage makes me weary.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1230 on: September 06, 2017, 07:51:43 am »
Ugh. Damn Christians fuck everything up. Hehehe...

The pinnacle pejorative.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1231 on: September 06, 2017, 10:11:56 am »
So Congress has a bit of work to do now.  By the end of September, they will need to have passed a spending bill to keep the government’s lights on, raised the debt ceiling, reauthorized the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP), reauthorized the National Flood Insurance Program (NFIP), reauthorized the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), and approved at least one disaster-relief package (probably two).

Republicans also have to work on the National Defense Authorization Act, tax reform and, as of yesterday, immigration policy. Trump even wants Congress to take another crack at health care reform before its Sept. 30 deadline (after which the 50-vote reconciliation option goes away forever).

They have 16 working days scheduled for the rest of September.

As Al Franken has been saying for decades now:  Republicans run on a platform that government doesn't work and, if they get elected, they set about proving it.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1232 on: September 06, 2017, 10:13:57 am »
I didn't mean to imply I want anyone deported or that I supported anything Trump is doing. I was just pointing out that Trump's motivation is political and about nationality, not race. The differences don't seem that subtle to me. I would be real surprised if they get deported. Pretty sure it wont ever come to that. God, I hope not.

I really don't understand your point. Racist cruelty is fine if the purpose is to motivate one's white nationalistic political base? 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1233 on: September 06, 2017, 10:25:09 am »
At 11am yesterday, Session (disgustingly gleefully) announced the rescission of DACA.  Reports claim that, as late as 10am, Trump administration officials still thought Trump might change his mind because they didn't think he understood what he was doing and, when he did, he'd change his mind.  Well the 11am announcement was made and Trump lobbed this live grenade at Congress telling them to "do their job," giving them a 6-month deadline.  Later he clarified that he meant they should enact DACA into law.

In the meantime, the DHS sent our a primer telling DACA recipients, among other thing, to "prepare for and arrange their departure from the United States."  Last evening, Trump tweeted that if Congress fails to meet his arbitrary, unnecessary and self-imposed deadline, he would "revisit the issue."

What the fucking fuck?

So, DACA recipients have a stay of 6 months, but should prepare to be kicked out, but Congress might get this written into law in which case you will be able to stay, but they probably won't get it done so you're leaving, but Trump will revisit the issue if that happens, but he won't tell you what he's going to do so prepare to kicked out anyway.  Maybe.

It's like they refined cruelty in a lab.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1234 on: September 06, 2017, 11:55:38 am »
I really don't understand your point. Racist cruelty is fine if the purpose is to motivate one's white nationalistic political base?
That hysteria goes well with the hyperbole. That's right, you really don't understand my point.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1235 on: September 06, 2017, 12:01:33 pm »
The pinnacle pejorative.
At least when I'm around my "cruel racist Christian" friends I don't have to worry about having my head chopped off like I do around my loving Muslim friends.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1236 on: September 06, 2017, 02:23:46 pm »
At least when I'm around my "cruel racist Christian" friends I don't have to worry about having my head chopped off like I do around my loving Muslim friends.

Unless you're a doctor who performs legal abortion services, in which case a loving Christian will walk into your church and blow your fucking head off.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1237 on: September 06, 2017, 02:38:41 pm »
Unless you're a doctor who performs legal abortion services, in which case a loving Christian will walk into your church and blow your fucking head off.
Good point, though I'm usually pre-occupied with worrying one might be a Catholic Preist or Baylor Football player and might sexually abuse me to ever get to the abortion doctor thing.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1238 on: September 07, 2017, 09:53:20 am »
Back to Russia fake news.   There was a significant ad buy on Facebook during the election that promoted certain divisive messaging.  It was targeted, apparently down to the individual in some cases.  Facebook has (finally, after repeated denials) admitted that the buy was placed by a Russian company, which turns out to be a front for Russian Military Intelligence.

In addition to it being a crime for foreigners to spend money in US elections, it's also now a question - that Mueller appears to be trying to answer - as to whether Kushner's digital campaign operation helped with targeting the attack.  Facebook has handed over everything it has on the ad buys.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1239 on: September 11, 2017, 11:04:09 am »
You get a lawyer and you get a lawyer...everybody gets a lawyer...part deux.

Former WH counsel McGahn has hired the same lawyer as Priebus as both men are due to be interviewed by Mueller.  In other news, recently installed and credential-less communications director - Hope Hicks - has also lawyered up despite being on the job only for a week or two.

What I want to know is, who the fuck is paying for all these lawyers?

PS, Hicks lawyer is from the firm Trout, Cacheris and Janis.  Why oh why couldn't that last person be called "Ralis"?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1240 on: September 21, 2017, 08:35:16 am »
While most of Houston, most of Florida, half the Caribbean and 1/3rd of Bangladesh have been underwater, and Mexico has been shaken to the ground, Robert Mueller has been working on getting documents from the White House.  The special counsel has asked for:

1. Internal communications and documents related to Mike Flynn's FBI interview in January.
2. Documents related to Flynn`s conversations with the Russian ambassador in December.
3. Records on acting Attorney General Sally Yates' warnings to the White House about Flynn.
4. Materials related to Flynn's departure from the White House.
5. Communications on Trump's campaign foreign-policy team, which may have included at least one suspected Russian agent.
6. Documents related to Trump's meetings with former FBI Director James Comey before his firing.
7. Records of internal White House discussions about Comey's firing.
8. Documents related to external White House communications about Comey's firing.
9. Documents related to Sean Spicer's comments about Comey the week before his firing.
10. Materials related to Trump's Oval Office meeting with Russian officials the day after Comey's firing.
11. Records related to last summer's Trump Tower meeting between top members of Trump's team and Putin-connected Russians.
12. Documents related to the White House's response to media inquiries about the Trump Tower meeting.
13. Any email or document the White House holds that relates to Paul Manafort, Trump's former campaign chairman.

Remember when there was a question about whether or not Trump's actions were themselves the subject of a federal investigation? That no longer appears to be in doubt.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1241 on: September 22, 2017, 10:35:19 pm »
Remarkable. I don't even know what to say anymore.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1242 on: September 22, 2017, 10:54:48 pm »
What a buffoon. 
There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1243 on: September 23, 2017, 08:54:26 am »
Remarkable. I don't even know what to say anymore.

He then doubled down by "uninviting" the Warriors from their White House visit.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1244 on: September 23, 2017, 08:55:29 am »
He is a moron. Not sure how anyone can defend this dotard any longer.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1245 on: September 25, 2017, 09:04:13 am »
LOCK HIM UP!  LOCK HIM UP!  LOCK HIM UP!  LOCK HIM UP! 

Kushner used private email account for official White House business.

No, seriously, lock him the fuck up.


Meanwhile, Mnuchin got caught taking a "company" (i.e. tax-payer funded) jet on a boondoggle with his wife after which it was disclosed that he tried to get one for his honeymoon to Europe.  Then Tom Price - head of HHS - got outed for racking up $300,000 of private jets for "business" travel.  After getting caught, he put out a series of nonsensical excuses, all the while continuing the practice such that his travel bill is up to $400,000.

The point isn't these individual abuses.  The point is that those in the administration seem to think it's ok.  This free-spending environment couldn't be the result of the boss taking the company jet to his Florida retreat every weekend at the cost of $3mm, could it?

Lock them all the fuck up.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 09:09:55 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1246 on: September 25, 2017, 11:21:07 am »
Did y'alls President just declare war on North Korea?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1247 on: September 25, 2017, 11:22:41 am »
Did y'alls President just declare war on North Korea?

He was trying to tweet at "Colin Kapernick" but it came out as "North Korea".

#Covfefe
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1248 on: September 25, 2017, 01:09:19 pm »
Did y'alls President just declare war on North Korea?

The sad thing is I have no idea if you're kidding.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1249 on: September 25, 2017, 02:03:02 pm »
The sad thing is I have no idea if you're kidding.

I went and looked at his Twitter feed to find out.

Fortunately for the species Honky Cat hasn't been tweeting very much about Rocket Man over the last couple of days. There was quite a bit about the NFL in there, though. So much so that all of his tweets about the devastation in Puerto Rico were well down the page, far enough to where I didn't even see them.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1250 on: September 25, 2017, 02:32:45 pm »
So much so that all of his tweets about the devastation in Puerto Rico were well down the page, far enough to where I didn't even see them.

Foreigners need to look after their own.

Eh?  Oh.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1251 on: September 25, 2017, 02:36:56 pm »
Graham-Cassidy is dead; long live Graham-Cassidy!

The new version is, of course, even worse than the previous, taking even more money out of Medicaid to pay for...carve-outs for Alaska and Maine.

We need to invent a new word that supersedes "craven", because this is beyond the scope of the current lexicon to describe.  How about "unpresidented"?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1252 on: September 25, 2017, 02:49:36 pm »
Graham-Cassidy is dead; long live Graham-Cassidy!

The new version is, of course, even worse than the previous, taking even more money out of Medicaid to pay for...carve-outs for Alaska and Maine.

We need to invent a new word that supersedes "craven", because this is beyond the scope of the current lexicon to describe.  How about "unpresidented"?

It amuses me to watch this collection of ass scratching, shit smearing monkeys dance to the lurching tune of their Kansan organ grinders.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1253 on: September 25, 2017, 03:28:37 pm »
It amuses me to watch this collection of ass scratching, shit smearing monkeys dance to the lurching tune of their Kansan organ grinders.

I thought Kansas had outlawed organ grinding?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1254 on: September 25, 2017, 05:16:44 pm »
It amuses me to watch this collection of ass scratching, shit smearing monkeys dance to the lurching tune of their Kansan organ grinders.

It reminds me of watching a toddler attempt a complicated jigsaw puzzle.  No sense of what the overall picture should look like or even how the individual pieces fit together.  They just keep spinning random pieces around and hopefully looking up expecting to be told that they did it right. 
"Holy shit, Mozart. Get me off this fucking thing."

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1255 on: September 25, 2017, 06:42:54 pm »
I thought Kansas had outlawed organ grinding?

Not if you do it Brownback.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1256 on: September 26, 2017, 03:06:00 pm »
Graham-Cassidy has been pulled from the floor.  Repeal is dead...for now.  Trump will continue to sabotage it as much as possible, but Obamacare remains the law of the land.

Now they're moving on to tax reform.  I'm sure it'll be fine.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1257 on: September 26, 2017, 03:22:22 pm »
Now they're moving on to tax reform.  I'm sure it'll be fine.

Hey, I've got a good idea! Let's lower taxes on rich people!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1258 on: September 26, 2017, 04:39:30 pm »
Graham-Cassidy has been pulled from the floor.  Repeal is dead...for now.  Trump will continue to sabotage it as much as possible, but Obamacare remains the law of the land.

Now they're moving on to tax reform.  I'm sure it'll be fine.

Post NFL-BS, any bets on what his next diversionary tactic is?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1259 on: September 26, 2017, 06:28:22 pm »
Post NFL-BS, any bets on what his next diversionary tactic is?
He hasn't fucked with Mexico with a week or two.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1260 on: September 26, 2017, 07:21:41 pm »
He hasn't fucked with Mexico with a week or two.

Sure, he sent hurricane relief supplies there today!


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1261 on: September 26, 2017, 07:53:40 pm »
That reminds me, Trump's not waiving the Jones Act (which is a fucking stupid law to begin with and needs to be abolished completely) for Puerto Rico is as vile as it is predictable.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1262 on: September 26, 2017, 07:54:43 pm »
That reminds me, Trump's not waiving the Jones Act (which is a fucking stupid law to begin with and needs to be abolished completely) for Puerto Rico is as vile as it is predictable.

I'm sure he's got friends in shipping.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1263 on: September 26, 2017, 07:56:40 pm »
I'm sure he's got friends in shipping.

Steinbrenner's dead.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1264 on: September 26, 2017, 09:26:44 pm »
Steinbrenner's dead.

but does he remember that?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1265 on: September 26, 2017, 09:42:15 pm »
George is an example of somebody who’s done an amazing job and is getting recognized more and more, I notice.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1266 on: September 27, 2017, 11:41:34 am »
Jared Kushner is so smart that he's been tasked with solving most of the world's problems, including the Middle East.  Simples.  However, he seems to have an Achilles heel when it comes to filling out forms, because he made so many mistakes on his security application that it's almost criminal (spoiler alert: it's actually criminal).  But new revelations suggest that there is nothing nefarious about Kushner's failure to disclose dozens of meetings with foreign officials or hundreds of millions of dollars of overseas investments or hundreds of millions of dollars in loans that he personally guaranteed.  No, it's just paperwork that he's bad at.

Jared Kushner is registered to vote in New York as a woman.

Jared Kushner's previous voter registration in New Jersey has his gender as "unknown".

I'm now going to go and laugh myself to death like a weasel in Roger Rabbit.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1267 on: September 27, 2017, 12:28:18 pm »

Jared Kushner's previous voter registration in New Jersey has his gender as "unknown".

Maybe he didn't have gender fluid as an option.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1268 on: September 27, 2017, 01:10:59 pm »
Maybe he didn't have gender fluid as an option.

Nor squeaky man-child.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1269 on: September 29, 2017, 08:53:58 am »
So, about the new "Friends and Family (of Trump) tax plan.  It would increase taxes on many middle-class American families.  In addition, it would have reduced Trump's tax burden - in the one year of tax returns he leaked - by 83%.  A saving of $30mm.

Here's what Government Sachs adviser Gary Cohn said about tax savings under the plan:  "If we allow a family to keep another $1,000 of their income, what does that mean? They can renovate their kitchen, they can buy a new car, they can take a family vacation, they can increase their lifestyle."  For a grand?  What fucking planet is he on?  Oh, that's right, Planet So Rich I Have No Idea of the Value of Money.

In a later interview he was pressed about whether this plan would reduce taxes for many middle-income families.  He could not say that it would.  Giver him a gold star (and probably a pink slip) for not lying.

This plan was cooked up by 6, like-minded Republicans, behind closed doors.  Paul Ryan lied his ass off as usual by volunteering that they'd done the "heavy lifting" on this, which is patently false.  All they've done is collate a basket of wish list tax cuts for the wealthy, without even bothering to do the math on whether it hurts everyone else and not suggesting a single balance elsewhere to pay for the massive drop in tax revenue.

They aren't even trying very hard to hide their intentions.  The plan increases the tax rate in the lowest tax bracket by 20%.    This is how yours (and my) taxes go up, because if you have deductions that exceed the standard deduction (because you have kids and/or a mortgage) then you're paying 20% more from dollar one.

This is even more of a sick fucking joke than even I expected.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 08:59:00 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1270 on: September 29, 2017, 08:58:13 am »
Meanwhile, Mnuchin got caught taking a "company" (i.e. tax-payer funded) jet on a boondoggle with his wife after which it was disclosed that he tried to get one for his honeymoon to Europe.  Then Tom Price - head of HHS - got outed for racking up $300,000 of private jets for "business" travel.  After getting caught, he put out a series of nonsensical excuses, all the while continuing the practice such that his travel bill is up to $400,000.

The point isn't these individual abuses.  The point is that those in the administration seem to think it's ok.  This free-spending environment couldn't be the result of the boss taking the company jet to his Florida retreat every weekend at the cost of $3mm, could it?

Lock them all the fuck up.

So Price's tax-payer funded private jet bill took a big jump this week, when it was unearthed that he'd used military jets to fly to Europe.  His private travel bill is now over $1mm.  Further, it turns out that he was taking "business" trips to where he had family and/or property.  How convenient.  Well, it's got to the point where even Price is feeling the heat, so he has agreed to pay back the cost of his seat.  Not the whole cost of the jets he hired for himself, just the cost of his individual seat...commercial.  That's about $50k.  By my reckoning, he's about $950k short.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1271 on: September 29, 2017, 09:02:56 am »
So Price's tax-payer funded private jet bill took a big jump this week, when it was unearthed that he'd used military jets to fly to Europe.  His private travel bill is now over $1mm.  Further, it turns out that he was taking "business" trips to where he had family and/or property.  How convenient.  Well, it's got to the point where even Price is feeling the heat, so he has agreed to pay back the cost of his seat.  Not the whole cost of the jets he hired for himself, just the cost of his individual seat...commercial.  That's about $50k.  By my reckoning, he's about $950k short.

He says he will reimburse only the portion that the government should have reasonably covered in the first place, leaving the tax payers on the hook for the portion that is giant waste and not the sliver that was legitimate.   
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1272 on: September 29, 2017, 09:09:20 am »
He says he will reimburse only the portion that the government should have reasonably covered in the first place, leaving the tax payers on the hook for the portion that is giant waste and not the sliver that was legitimate.

Of course this is completely insane, yet expected from this group.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1273 on: September 29, 2017, 12:20:46 pm »
This is even more of a sick fucking joke than even I expected.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Any minute now the Freedom Caucus will come galloping in to declare that they will not support any bill that does not fully eradicate the EITC.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1274 on: September 29, 2017, 12:22:22 pm »
He says he will reimburse only the portion that the government should have reasonably covered in the first place, leaving the tax payers on the hook for the portion that is giant waste and not the sliver that was legitimate.

Oh, and by the way, we don't have any money for Medicaid. Sorry about that.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1275 on: September 29, 2017, 01:18:39 pm »
Oh, and by the way, we don't have any money for Medicaid. Sorry about that.

Well, to be fair, how can they possibly pay for it in light of a trillion dollar tax cut that primarily benefits the richest Americans?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1276 on: September 29, 2017, 01:32:40 pm »
Well, to be fair, how can they possibly pay for it in light of a trillion dollar tax cut that primarily benefits the richest Americans?

They should change the name from Trickle Down to Bukkake.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1277 on: September 29, 2017, 01:52:29 pm »
Here's the The Tax Policy Center's preliminary analysis of the proposed tax plan.

Bottom line is it would reduce federal revenues by $2.4 trillion in the first decade and an additional $3.2 trillion in the second decade. 

And, of course, the top 1% of the income distribution would receive half of the total tax benefit.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1278 on: September 29, 2017, 02:18:39 pm »
Oh, and by the way, we don't have any money for Medicaid. Sorry about that.

The did get around to adding seven hundred billion unwanted dollars to the Pentagon's budget.  But, while they were farting around with another ACA repeal this week, they let the Children's Health Insurance Program - the covers 9 million kids - expire.  Because...freedom?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1279 on: September 29, 2017, 02:19:10 pm »
They should change the name from Trickle Down to Bukkake.

This is perfect.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1280 on: September 29, 2017, 02:34:39 pm »
I'm a fan of referring to it as a Golden Shower
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1281 on: September 29, 2017, 03:57:04 pm »
HHS Secretary Price is stepping down to spend more time on private jets.  Mnuchin is another jet-setter who may be in the crosshairs, along with Interior Secretary Zinke - he who tried to blackmail Alaska over Sen. Murkowski's TrumpCare no vote - has also been caught riding a chartered private jet.

At this point, it might also be worth noting that, among the 100s of positions for which the Trump administration has failed to even proffer a nominee, the head of the Department of Homeland Security - which includes FEMA - is one of them.  He can't afford to lose too many more cabinet members as there are so many empty chairs already.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1282 on: September 29, 2017, 04:27:20 pm »
Drain the swamp!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1283 on: September 29, 2017, 11:17:22 pm »
Drain the swamp!

Im not sure what is more amazing/sad, people (idiots) who thought Trump would drain the swamp or people who thought Trump would get Mexico to pay for a wall.   Or people that thought Trump wasnt a complete moron.

Sad!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1284 on: September 30, 2017, 12:47:13 am »
Im not sure what is more amazing/sad, people (idiots) who thought Trump would drain the swamp or people who thought Trump would get Mexico to pay for a wall.   Or people that thought Trump wasnt a complete moron.

Two things - first, the pathetic shitstains who object to public figures using their First Amendment rights to highlight police brutality are exactly the same vile motherfuckers who would have in decades past run people out of the Woolworths lunch counter in Greensboro, who would have opened a high pressure water hose on peaceful marchers in Birmingham, who would have screamed in Elizabeth Eckford's face as she went to school, on and on. You dickheads were on the wrong side of history then, and to continue with the same openly racist bullshit in 2017, well, it's a fucking disgrace and you'd be shameless freaks if you had any shame, but you don't, so fuck you. Don't try to make it into some bullshit about the fucking flag or the troops or dividing the country or any of the other fucking bullshit you try to spin. It's plantation level control that you're after, and you can't have it so you go fucking crazy. Fuck you.

Second, when the inevitable hammer comes down on this fucking cocksucker I cannot wait, CANNOT WAIT, to see the Trumpspunkers deny it all. Mueller? Deep state! Manafort? 2012! Felix Slater? Don't know him!  Pee tape/snuff tape? Fake news! Evidence of actual vote tampering? Bernie!

It's going to be great. Of course these are the same people who think that the earth is 5,000 years old and that global warming is a Chinese hoax. Or an Al Gore hoax. Or a plot by people like me who hate money. You know, who knows. These hypocritical intellectual mollusks are capable of all sorts of bizarre yogic contortions at the behest of their minders.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1285 on: September 30, 2017, 08:52:50 am »
So President Dotard is attacking the San Juan mayor this morning.   It is amazing people still support this clown.   
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1286 on: September 30, 2017, 01:25:58 pm »
You'd think that since Jared's got the whole Middle East situation sorted out he'd now have enough free time to figure out how to get water and diesel fuel to a nearby island.

Boy, I'm really looking forward to these outstanding organizational skills being put to work in the upcoming war with Iran.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1287 on: September 30, 2017, 02:10:44 pm »
You'd think that since Jared's got the whole Middle East situation sorted out he'd now have enough free time to figure out how to get water and diesel fuel to a nearby island.

Boy, I'm really looking forward to these outstanding organizational skills being put to work in the upcoming war with Iran.

He could have started his Pax Trumpicana in the Western Hemisphere at least.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1288 on: October 02, 2017, 08:45:12 am »
So "warmest condolences" tweeted to the over 400 killed and injured in Las Vegas last night.  Not a word about the shooter - a 64-year old resident of a Nevada golf course retirement community named Stephan Pollock. Newly installed as the U.S's most deadly mass shooter, having killed over 50 people and injured over 400 more - mind-boggling numbers.

Not.  A.  Word.

Anyone think the President's response (other than to cancel his trip to PR because he didn't want to go anyway) would have been very much different if the shooter's background had been a little different?

These are the extraneous tests that were always going to come - the ones not created by his own ego and impetuousness - Harvey, Irma, Maria, North Korea and Las Vegas.  He has failed each one spectacularly and tragically.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1289 on: October 02, 2017, 08:59:59 am »
It's the old "practice to deceive" saying.  He might not be in such a tangled web if he'd just treat all motherfuckers the same, whether they be "them" or "us."

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1290 on: October 02, 2017, 11:24:42 am »
Death toll now 58, maybe 59, with 515 recorded as injured. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1291 on: October 02, 2017, 12:44:07 pm »
Let me guess, "This isn't the time to talk about gun control."
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1292 on: October 02, 2017, 01:33:51 pm »
Let me guess, "This isn't the time to talk about gun control."

Saw a guy on the news just now say that he wasn't sure if there was anything that could be done to prevent things like this.

Not booking that fucktard on the news ever again would a good start.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1293 on: October 02, 2017, 02:06:57 pm »
Saw a guy on the news just now say that he wasn't sure if there was anything that could be done to prevent things like this.

Not booking that fucktard on the news ever again would a good start.

'No Way to Prevent This' Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens.

The Onion has run that story 5 times in the last two and a half years.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1294 on: October 02, 2017, 02:22:16 pm »
There's a toll booth here that costs 90 cents to go through. I know of another one on the coast of Colombia that costs 20,100 pesos. I can imagine the quarterly meetings. Say, fellas, it's costing us a fortune to ship these 200 kilo bags of coins to and from these toll booths, I tell ya, it's a real problem! Yeah, boss, and the cajeros tell me that dealing with all that change really slows things down! Well, boys, what to do, what to do - anyone got any bright ideas? No? Anyone? No? Okey-dokey, then, I guess this is just one of those things. Let's break for lunch!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1295 on: October 02, 2017, 02:40:45 pm »
The next shoe to drop, of course, is that the guns used were fully automatic and thus illegal.  So, we don't need to change gun laws because the illegal actions of one madman... etc. etc. ad nauseam.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1296 on: October 02, 2017, 03:50:51 pm »
Let me guess, "This isn't the time to talk about gun control."

That is apparently the only waiting period that can be considered.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1297 on: October 02, 2017, 04:00:10 pm »
That is apparently the only waiting period that can be considered.




I just want to talk about Sandy Hook but, dammit, by the time I've waited long enough to politely bring it up there's already been another mass shooting. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1298 on: October 02, 2017, 04:47:14 pm »
I just want to talk about Sandy Hook but, dammit, by the time I've waited long enough to politely bring it up there's already been another mass shooting.

As I have seen it succinctly put on Twitter, the debate about gun control ended when we were cool with kids being slaughtered.

Oh, and there was another mass shooting last night, this one in Kansas.  Only one tenth the victims, though, so nothing to see there.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1299 on: October 02, 2017, 05:15:34 pm »
As I have seen it succinctly put on Twitter, the debate about gun control ended when we were cool with kids being slaughtered.


If 20 murdered six-year-olds didn't move the needle I don't know--or even want to imagine--what would.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1300 on: October 02, 2017, 05:54:43 pm »
If 20 murdered six-year-olds didn't move the needle I don't know--or even want to imagine--what would.

False flag, deep state, sheeple, fake news, conspiracy to repeal the Second Amendment.

Imagine what Alex Jones crossed with Bon Iver would sound like. Wait, you don't have to imagine.

https://youtu.be/uWd6XgBVIcg
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1301 on: October 03, 2017, 08:43:19 am »
If 20 murdered six-year-olds didn't move the needle I don't know--or even want to imagine--what would.

Looks some some in Congress are trying to jump on this and strike while the barrel's iron's hot, and dismissing the "now's not the time" obfuscation for what it is.  They face a strong headwind, so we'll see how that goes.  I think the sheer number of victims - and the insane number of guns (23 in the hotel, another 19 at home) - might be a factor here. 

It's the poster child situation showing the need for a gun registry and ammunition purchase registry.  The shooter bought all his guns - and thousands of rounds of ammunition - legally, passing a background check along the way.  But, if he had to register all those guns, there would at least have been a red flag flown high over his head.  Why would a single man need over 40 guns?  Why does one individual need a couple o' thousand semi-automatic rounds?

Think about it:  1 idiot tried to mix chemicals on a plane to make explosives, and now no one can take usable toiletries onto a plane.  1 idiot tried to blow up his shoes, and now we have to kick off our shoes to get through airport security.  1 idiot set his underpants on fire, and now we have to be subjected to a naked body scan or let the TSA get to 2nd base.  No one died in any of those botched attacks.

Here, 1 idiot stockpiled enough guns and ammunition to start a small war, and then shot nearly 600 people with them.  That's the equivalent of the passenger capacity of three 737s.  I think we can all take a small inconvenience of registering guns in an effort to make this much less likely to be repeated; like the liquids bomber, like the shoe bomber, like the underpants bomber.

Of course, it would be a good first step simply to designate this terrorism.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1302 on: October 03, 2017, 09:09:05 am »

Of course, it would be a good first step simply to designate this terrorism.

Another good first step would be to devote federal funds to studying the issue and developing science-based policy recommendations to evaluate, but that itself would require a significant change in law and policy that has continually been resisted by the NRA and its congressional puppets. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1303 on: October 03, 2017, 09:59:29 am »
Another good first step would be to devote federal funds to studying the issue and developing science-based policy recommendations to evaluate, but that itself would require a significant change in law and policy that has continually been resisted by the NRA and its congressional puppets.

I'm waiting for the "it's a mental health, not gun control, issue" talking point.  Oh yeah?  Well then, where's all the money for mental health in your healthcare bill and/or budget?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1304 on: October 03, 2017, 12:12:19 pm »
Trump hails Las Vegas as a "miracle" and tells Puerto Ricans that they've really thrown his budget out of whack.

Is there anything over which he cannot pick the wrong side, words and tone?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1305 on: October 04, 2017, 01:45:35 pm »
So Rex Tillerson had to have a press conference today to confirm that he wasn't resigning after reports came out that he called Trump a "fucking moron".  What Tillerson never said today, though, was that he'd never called Trump a "fucking moron". 

Meanwhile, it turns out that the Kushners, in addition to using their personal emails for official White House business, had been using a third unauthorised email to conduct White House business - one that was shared with their household staff.  It's not just that all of these people get caught doing what they've accused their opponents of doing.  It's that they do it 10x worse.

Mick Mulvaney - White House Budget Director - for example, once said it would be better for the U.S. to default on its debt and crash the world economy, rather than pass a clean debt ceiling bill.  Now, with Trump's tax cuts (a phrase that can be read both ways and be correct both ways), he has stated the need to allow new deficits in the budget to promote growth.  Really?  Like a stimulus package?

And, with Trump in Vegas today, he was about as Trumpian as he could be when he said that "it's a very, very sad day for me."

Also, today, Mulveiny (because he's a prick) said that there would be no debt relief for Puerto Rico.  So, the 1% need relief from taxes but brown people who are 99% devastated by a natural disaster can go fuck themselves.  At least they're consistent on this theme.  Maybe he's sending out invoices for those rolls of paper towels that Trump lobbed at them yesterday.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 02:07:41 pm by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1306 on: October 24, 2017, 10:27:25 am »
What a week it was last week.  Trump made up shit about how he's the best President at calling the families of those killed in combat - something that was demonstrably and demonstrated to be false - in order to avoid answering the question that he has continued to avoid for about three weeks now:  what the fuck happened in Niger?

He then had to play catch up on his consoling duties, so he called the widow of Sgt. La David Johnson while she was riding with family and close friends - including Rep. Frederica Wilson - to collect her husband's remains, and told her that her husband "knew what he signed up for."  Rep. Wilson jumped all over this appallingly tone deaf comment, at which point the shit got turned up to 11...thousand...with Trump calling everyone a liar and sending General Kelly out to deflect attention by using his own personal tragedy of losing his son in combat as a shield and then flat-out lying about Rep. Wilson to make her look bad.  Trump insulted Wilson by saying that her attire is ridiculous while confusing her with Maxine Walters.  Later reports stated that Trump seemed to be struggling to remember the name of Sgt. Johnson on the original call, something that gained credence when he could not remember Myeisha Johnson's name when insulting her in the press - referring to her as "the wife" and "the widow" but not by name.

Remember; this all started because Trump does not want to talk about Niger.

What we know about Niger is that a squad of Green Berets got ambushed by a significantly larger force of ISIS-friendly combatants - perhaps a 4-1 advantage - and 4 US soldiers were killed, including Sgt. Johnson whose remains were not recovered until 48 hours after the fight.  I have seen claims that he put up a beacon after everyone else had been evacuated - suggesting they left him out there still alive - and also that his remains were heavily mutilated, but I have not seen any confirmation of this.  At best, this is as bad a fuck up as Benghazi...at best!

Those troops were sent into harm's way without air cover and without back-up, save some French forces who were under orders not to open fire.  They were in pick-up trucks, not armored Humvees.  Reports now state that they were lured into a meeting and duped into staying longer than safety allowed, allowing the ISIS forces to set up not only the main ambush, but a secondary ambush site on their escape route.  When the Green Berets retreated from the initial ambush, they ran smack bang into the secondary force.  Sgt. Johnson appears to have been left at the original combat site and so was not evacuated when help finally arrived, some hours later.

So about that help and support.  Chad, a neighboring country to Niger's east - has been the most competent and cooperative ally in the fight against ISIS and al Qaeda-inspired groups in the region - including Boko Haram.  Most (if not all) the international operations combating these militant forces are based in Chad for this very reason, including that of the US.  Chad was very active in Niger...until very recently.

In September, the Trump administration added Chad to the list of countries on his latest iteration of the Muslim ban.  The decision shocked and confused almost everyone, the decision to ban Chad being described as "puzzling" and "inexplicable".  It turns out that it was due to them not supplying a fresh sample of a passport for review by us - because they were awaiting new supplies of the special paper used for passports - so on the banned list they went.  Venezuela was added too, presumably so that the banned list looks a lot less Muslimy.

Within days of hitting the banned list, Chad began withdrawing its troops from Niger - an action that coincided with a steadily increasing rate of attacks by militant forces in that country.  Chad had completely exited Niger about a week before the attack on the Green Berets.  So, we still have massive gaps in knowledge about what the fuck happened in Niger.  But we do have some strong indications as to why Trump doesn't want to talk about it; his domestic political bullshit may have lead directly to the deaths of US troops in combat.

The Russian scandal is way worse than Watergate, and now this is shaping up to be way worse than Benghazi.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1307 on: October 24, 2017, 10:48:49 am »
Well, Benghazi was complete bullshit, as small organizational decisions in a military event were amplified by dipshits into supposed criminal failures of Obama and Clinton.  The bullshitness on this is likely similar, but nothing will come of it because of course, the tribal right wing is completely without integrity.

The more interesting and important aspect, the ripple effects of his demagoguery, will never be discussed due to the same lack of integrity.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1308 on: October 24, 2017, 11:07:23 am »
Well, Benghazi was complete bullshit, as small organizational decisions in a military event were amplified by dipshits into supposed criminal failures of Obama and Clinton.  The bullshitness on this is likely similar, but nothing will come of it because of course, the tribal right wing is completely without integrity.

The more interesting and important aspect, the ripple effects of his demagoguery, will never be discussed due to the same lack of integrity.

Embattled Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke awarded a $300 million contract for the repair of Puerto Rico's power grid to a fledgling company in Whitefish, Montana that - at the time of the award - had two employees.  Zinke is from Whitefish, Montana.

This is happening up and down the government.  Pretty much everyone has been flying private on the taxpayers' dime and it's clearly so pervasive that Mneuchin thought it appropriate to request a military private jet (the most expensive kind) for his honeymoon in Europe.  EPA director Pruitt has been using paid for private jets in service of his upcoming Gubernatorial campaign, and has upped his personal security detail to 30.  Thirty!  Why the fuck does he need even one?

They are spending our dollars on their friends, families and themselves, and very few if any will see any consequences because no one is in charge of this particular asylum.  It's a full-blown kleptocracy at this point. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1309 on: October 24, 2017, 11:26:28 am »
Embattled Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke awarded a $300 million contract for the repair of Puerto Rico's power grid to a fledgling company in Whitefish, Montana that - at the time of the award - had two employees.  Zinke is from Whitefish, Montana.

This is happening up and down the government.  Pretty much everyone has been flying private on the taxpayers' dime and it's clearly so pervasive that Mneuchin thought it appropriate to request a military private jet (the most expensive kind) for his honeymoon in Europe.  EPA director Pruitt has been using paid for private jets in service of his upcoming Gubernatorial campaign, and has upped his personal security detail to 30.  Thirty!  Why the fuck does he need even one?

They are spending our dollars on their friends, families and themselves, and very few if any will see any consequences because no one is in charge of this particular asylum.  It's a full-blown kleptocracy at this point. 

What's your point?  That people should be held accountable to how they are spending my lower-middle-class tax dollars.  That would be great but I have low expectations.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1310 on: October 24, 2017, 11:52:58 am »
What's your point?  That people should be held accountable to how they are spending my lower-middle-class tax dollars.  That would be great but I have low expectations.

Yes.  There should be oversight on such things by Congress, but that is looking patchy at best.

Low expectations is exactly what they want you to have, so that you stop caring and they can get away with whatever they want.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1311 on: October 24, 2017, 12:05:17 pm »
Of course, it is terrible but I am grateful for the recent eight year hiatus in government profligacy. If only the era assiduous stewardship of public funds hadn't been interrupted. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1312 on: October 24, 2017, 03:41:50 pm »
You forgot to mention that Chad fined Exxon $74 billion.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1313 on: October 25, 2017, 10:06:17 am »
You forgot to mention that Chad fined Exxon $74 billion.

Thank you.  Yes.

It's hard not to sound like a tin foil hat wearing super conspiracy theorist these days, but it's what happens when you put pure business interests in charge of the public coffers and levers of power.  It's only by following the money that you get to make sense of any of it.

Also, Trump update:  still has not said jack-shit about the combat deaths in Niger.  He's golfed multiple times and tweeted hundreds of times, but still has not released - for example - the official statement that was written for him the day after the battle.  It's been cheekily suggested that "Niger" might trigger an unfortunate auto-correct on his BlackBerry, but as time goes on, it becomes more and more bizarre and by leaving a vacuum he opens the door to all kinds of speculation.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1314 on: October 25, 2017, 01:00:37 pm »
Quote
still has not said jack-shit about the combat deaths in Niger

Niger was a golden opportunity for Trump to change the subject from all his other problems: "Fuck your hurricane... WHAT ABOUT THE TROOPS?" "Radical Islamic Terror!" "WARTIME PRESIDENT!" But he stayed dead silent. The only reason I can think of is that the truth about how and why it happened is truly horrific.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1315 on: October 25, 2017, 01:50:20 pm »
Niger was a golden opportunity for Trump to change the subject from all his other problems: "Fuck your hurricane... WHAT ABOUT THE TROOPS?" "Radical Islamic Terror!" "WARTIME PRESIDENT!" But he stayed dead silent. The only reason I can think of is that the truth about how and why it happened is truly horrific.

Well the inference is that Chad was punished by the US government for fining Exxon $74 billion, and was put on the immigration banned list; so Chad decided to pull their well trained and competent forces from Niger, which left the US troops woefully exposed.  So, yeah, if true, that's pretty horrific.  In fact, settling Exxon's scores with the blood of US servicemen is about as horrific as it gets, because that is very much not what they signed up for.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1316 on: October 25, 2017, 05:50:18 pm »
Well the inference is that Chad was punished by the US government for fining Exxon $74 billion, and was put on the immigration banned list; so Chad decided to pull their well trained and competent forces from Niger, which left the US troops woefully exposed.  So, yeah, if true, that's pretty horrific.  In fact, settling Exxon's scores with the blood of US servicemen is about as horrific as it gets, because that is very much not what they signed up for.

The $74 billon fine was a shakedown of absurd Dr. Evil proportions, and even Chad knew it.  They settled that deal six months ago.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1317 on: October 26, 2017, 08:40:05 am »
The $74 billon fine was a shakedown of absurd Dr. Evil proportions, and even Chad knew it.  They settled that deal six months ago.

This is the problem with the information vacuum; it gives space for speculation.

Yes, the Chadian govt is horribly corrupt and almost all the oil money goes into the pocket of Idriss Déby, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there wasn't some element of payback on the decision to add them to the immigration ban.  There is no credible explanation for that, and there is so little information about the deadly mission that all we can do is ask questions.  Questions which Trump - when asked to his face - flat out ignores.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1318 on: October 30, 2017, 10:28:10 am »
Happy Muellerwe'en!

Manafort indicted for a whole bunch of money, fraud and tax offenses, and also for "conspiracy against the United States".  Another Trump campaign aide - George Papadopoulos - already has plead guilty to lying to the FBI.

This probably explains Trump's extended Tweet-storm over the weekend about Clinton and Russia (WTF?), as well as Roger Stone's unhinged rantings that got him suspended from that service.  The noose is tightening....
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1319 on: October 30, 2017, 10:34:31 am »
Happy Muellerwe'en!

Manafort indicted for a whole bunch of money, fraud and tax offenses, and also for "conspiracy against the United States".  Another Trump campaign aide - George Papadopoulos - already has plead guilty to lying to the FBI.

This probably explains Trump's extended Tweet-storm over the weekend about Clinton and Russia (WTF?), as well as Roger Stone's unhinged rantings that got him suspended from that service.  The noose is tightening....

All weekend I figured it would be Manafort or somebody we've never heard of.  Good ol' Mueller with the WHY NOT BOTH? special. 

The Clinton-Russia urananium/dossier conspiracy theories are exceedingly bizzare and this is coming in a week where the JFK papers were released.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1320 on: October 30, 2017, 11:08:29 am »
Papadopoulos is a kid who Trump lauded as a foreign policy adviser when pressed about who he had on his team by the press.  He was part of the list that included Russian stooge Carter Page.  Part of Papadopoulos' resume in this regard is that he'd participated in a "Model U.N.".  I shit you not.

What's interesting is that Papadopoulos was charged secretly months ago, and has been cooperating with the investigation ever since.  Papadopoulos famously initiated an email thread around the campaign higher ups about trying to set up a meeting between the campaign and Putin.  Literally.  His cooperation could be quite revealing; I'm sure he didn't make enough money and has too much of his life left to want to go to jail to protect anyone else.

Quote from: Fake News
Papadopoulos was arrested in July 2017 and pleaded guilty on Oct. 5. His plea agreement says the government will inform the sentencing judge of his "efforts to cooperate with the Government, on the condition that your client continues to respond and provide information regarding any and all matters as to which the Government deems relevant."
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 11:12:03 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1321 on: October 30, 2017, 11:29:41 am »
The Clinton-Russia urananium/dossier conspiracy theories are exceedingly bizzare and this is coming in a week where the JFK papers were released.

This is the most bizarre manifestation to date of something I have noticed over the past six or eight years - if you want to know what underhanded or illegal shit the Republicans are up to, just refer to whatever they're accusing the Democrats of and you'll end up with a pretty complete picture.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1322 on: October 30, 2017, 12:00:19 pm »
A thorough analysis of the indictments in twitter thread form.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1323 on: October 30, 2017, 12:14:28 pm »
A thorough analysis of the indictments in twitter thread form.

I just went from six to midnight.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1324 on: October 30, 2017, 12:50:01 pm »
A thorough analysis of the indictments in twitter thread form.

That guy is a world class badass.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1325 on: October 30, 2017, 03:29:41 pm »
Papadopoulos was charged on July 27, plead guilty on October 5 but all such records were sealed until today.  He was described by prosecutors as a "proactive cooperator" which is cop-speak for "wore a wire".  Potentially for three months...

I'm buying popcorn!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1326 on: October 30, 2017, 05:09:57 pm »
Pretty amazed they kept that arrest quiet until today.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1327 on: October 31, 2017, 08:38:05 am »
Pretty amazed they kept that arrest quiet until today.

The unsealing of the arrest/charges/plea yesterday means that the "proactive cooperation" is over.  That means either they listened for weeks/months and got nothing, or they listened for weeks/months and got what they needed.  I'm leaning towards the latter, because if there's one thing that we can see in the behavior of Trump World so far is that no one can stop their lips from flapping.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1328 on: October 31, 2017, 11:14:29 am »
The unsealing of the arrest/charges/plea yesterday means that the "proactive cooperation" is over.  That means either they listened for weeks/months and got nothing, or they listened for weeks/months and got what they needed.  I'm leaning towards the latter, because if there's one thing that we can see in the behavior of Trump World so far is that no one can stop their lips from flapping.

If they got anything off a wire from this dumbass I'll be most interested to see what it was and by whom. What I mean is, who the hell would give this imbecile the time of day much less spill anything that is actionably illegal?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1329 on: October 31, 2017, 11:51:24 am »
If they got anything off a wire from this dumbass I'll be most interested to see what it was and by whom. What I mean is, who the hell would give this imbecile the time of day much less spill anything that is actionably illegal?

He was name-checked by Trump when he was asked to say who was advising him on foreign affairs.  This was after the famous "I have a very good brain" speech.  Trump knew him by name as a campaign adviser, he worked on the campaign, and he sent multiple emails to campaign colleagues about setting up a meeting with representatives of Putin's government, one of which, at least, was referenced by Manafort in an email he sent.

The fact that he's, at best, a babe in the woods is not surprising.  Trump World is full of know-nothings and incompetents.  Fealty to the Dear Leader is the only qualification required.

Here's an article from back in May which talks more about Carter Page, but it's now quite relevant in how it discusses also Papadopoulos:

Quote from: WaPo
Another unusual name on Trump’s list of foreign policy experts was a little-known figure named George Papadopoulos, whose inclusion may also have demonstrated the vulnerabilities that came with limited vetting.

“He’s an energy consultant,” Trump said. “Excellent guy.”

The news media soon reported that Papadopoulos seemed to have exaggerated elements of his résumé. And, touting his position as a Trump adviser, Papadopoulos began offering positive comments about Russian President Vladi­mir Putin to foreign audiences.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 11:57:22 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1330 on: November 01, 2017, 09:13:28 am »
Just something to remember - when facing the blizzard of lies, obfuscation and denials from Trump World - is that collusion is no longer "alleged".  George Papadopoulos, in pleading guilty to lying to the FBI, attested under oath to the veracity of a whole bunch of emails he sent and received in which - as a member of the Trump campaign - he was negotiating to meet with Russians, members of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and "Putin's people" in order to receive dirt on Clinton.  These negotiations were reported to, sanctioned and encouraged by Papadopoulos' supervisor - unnamed in the court filings but believed to be Sam Clovis - and also discussed in correspondence by Manafort.

That's collusion with Russians by the Trump campaign by dictionary definition.

Now they can weasel around whether Papadopoulos was important, but Manafort went in writing saying that Papadopoulos should attend such meetings, but no one more senior, which is hardly shutting down what was clearly inappropriate and illegal activity as any seasoned campaign manager (which he is) would know.  So three-passport Manafort is complicit here too.

So, to use a "Harvey" analogy, Trump is not underwater here, but it's right up to his fucking doorstep.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1331 on: November 01, 2017, 09:41:35 am »
From here on out, it's just like laying out evidence at a trial, without the drama since every rational person knows there was collusion, and every rational person knows there a quid pro quo as part of that collusion.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1332 on: November 01, 2017, 09:50:27 am »
“I will tell you this, Russia: If you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing."
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1333 on: November 07, 2017, 11:36:00 am »
There's a lot going on right now: the Paradise Papers are blowing up the lies about non-involvement in Russia for the likes of Ross and Kushner; Flynn's indictment is imminent (or done already but sealed); and Carter Page just implicated Lewandowski, Hicks and Sessions by telling congress that they knew about his trip to Russia before and after it happened.

Here's something really hilarious about billionaire Commerce Secretary Ross:  he's not actually a billionaire.  Forbes took the financial disclosures he gave as part of being vetted for a cabinet post, compared it to what they'd been told over the years, and concluded that Ross is a fucking liar and not a billionaire.

Quote from: Forbes
So began the mystery of Wilbur Ross' missing $2 billion. And after one month of digging, Forbes is confident it has found the answer: That money never existed. It seems clear that Ross lied to us, the latest in an apparent sequence of fibs, exaggerations, omissions, fabrications and whoppers that have been going on with Forbes since 2004.

...

"Wilbur doesn't have an issue with bending the truth," says David Wax, who worked alongside Ross for 25 years and served as the No. 3 person in his firm. Another former colleague, who requested anonymity, was less circumspect: "He's lied to a lot of people."

Only the best, right Donald?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1334 on: November 08, 2017, 12:01:56 pm »
The meltdown from the elections last night have been enjoyable to watch from the Trumpkins.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1335 on: November 08, 2017, 01:27:04 pm »
The meltdown from the elections last night have been enjoyable to watch from the Trumpkins.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1336 on: November 08, 2017, 01:56:33 pm »
Aint that the(ir) truth...
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1337 on: November 11, 2017, 11:29:10 pm »
Trump showing his ass again today. What a fucking embarrassment.  I can understand people not liking Clinton and voting against her. I am at a complete loss to understand how anyone with an IQ above 37 could watch what is going on now and think, yeah I support this Dotard.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1338 on: November 14, 2017, 09:13:32 am »
So Don Jr. has incriminated himself again by releasing a series of direct messages between him and the WikiLeaks Twitter account.  Amongst other things in those messages, WikiLeaks asked him to publicize a link to their website which hosted the stolen* DNC emails, which Jr. dutifully did.  So, having swept away any reasonable doubt about collusion with the Papadopoulos conviction, there is now no argument against coordination.

* Let's not overlook the fact that these emails were stolen.  The Russians broke into the DNC campaign's offices in the Watergate Hotel computers and took them, which is theft.

It's also worth noting that, during the time Don Jr. was palling around with cyber terrorists messaging WikiLeaks, Don Sr. was professing his blue-veined man-love for the organization at every opportunity on the stump, and sending his alien-baby Nigel Farage to the Ecuadorian embassy in London for reasons which Nigel - when confronted by a reporter immediately upon leaving the building - couldn't remember.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1339 on: November 14, 2017, 09:37:22 am »
From The Atlantic's article:

“Strongly suggest your dad tweets this link if he mentions us,” WikiLeaks went on, pointing Trump Jr. to the link wlsearch.tk, which it said would help Trump’s followers dig through the trove of stolen documents and find stories. “There’s many great stories the press are missing and we’re sure some of your follows [sic] will find it,” WikiLeaks went on. “Btw we just released Podesta Emails Part 4.”

Trump Jr. did not respond to this message. But just 15 minutes after it was sent, as The Wall Street Journal’s Byron Tau pointed out, Donald Trump himself tweeted, “Very little pick-up by the dishonest media of incredible information provided by WikiLeaks. So dishonest! Rigged system!”
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1340 on: November 14, 2017, 10:26:18 am »
From The Atlantic's article:

“Strongly suggest your dad tweets this link if he mentions us,” WikiLeaks went on, pointing Trump Jr. to the link wlsearch.tk, which it said would help Trump’s followers dig through the trove of stolen documents and find stories. “There’s many great stories the press are missing and we’re sure some of your follows [sic] will find it,” WikiLeaks went on. “Btw we just released Podesta Emails Part 4.”

Trump Jr. did not respond to this message. But just 15 minutes after it was sent, as The Wall Street Journal’s Byron Tau pointed out, Donald Trump himself tweeted, “Very little pick-up by the dishonest media of incredible information provided by WikiLeaks. So dishonest! Rigged system!”


Ironically, the day that Jr. was cahooting with WikiLeaks, Mike Pence was asked specifically about whether the campaign was in cahoots with WikiLeaks and he said "no".  Yesterday, he issued a statement saying that he was not aware of Jr's cahooting, such a denial being notable because it's the first such denial albeit in response to the nth time that he has been made a liar by the actions of himself and/or the campaign.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1341 on: November 14, 2017, 10:39:41 am »
Speaking of Alabama judges...no, not that one...Trump's pick for a lifetime appointment to the Federal bench in that state is running into some trouble.  Ignoring the fact that he's only 36, is a blogger, has never tried a case or even argued a motion in court (although he does have a law degree), received a unanimous assessment of "not qualified" from the American Bar Association*, and suggested - in response to the Sandy Hook massacre - that we need to sop being "pansies" and "man-up", Brett Talley failed to disclose some material details on some of his personal connections (I know, right?)

To wit, he's married to the White House counsel's Chief of Staff, Ann Donaldson.  That's the same Ann Donaldson who has been interviewed by Mueller as part of the Russia investigation.

As far as I know, Donaldson isn't actually Russian herself, so I guess that's an improvement.

Every Republican on the Judicial Committee has endorsed Talley.


* The ABA has issued only six unanimous "not qualified" assessments in its history; four of these six were Trump nominees.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1342 on: November 15, 2017, 09:54:20 am »
OK, my level of outright disgust is Harvian right now:

- The tax bill is being retrofitted to be an ACA repeal (and not replace), they're taking $338bn from Medicaid, giving it to corporations and throwing 13 million people off insurance in the process

- The WSJ's CEO Counsel put the lie to the Republican trickle down theory when the room was asked to show hands for those who would invest more once their taxes were cut; maybe two hands (out of dozens) went up and Gary Cohn was reduced to embarrassed laughter (corporations don't need tax cuts to invest, they need demand)

- "Friend of Russia" Rex Tillerson's State Department just gave a no-bid contract for security services at the Moscow embassy to company founded by a former KGB spy-master who worked with (at the KGB) and is a friend of Putin

- Trump retweeted himself to offer sympathy to the victims of the CA elementary school shooting without bothering to change the location from Sutherland Springs; if someone could give less than zero shits, this is what it would look like

- Jeff Sessions lied to the House Judiciary committee about lying to the Senate Judiciary committee about lies on his security disclosure form, and got pantsed frequently for being purely partisan and racist in his approach to law enforcement (Sessions has lied so many times about lying that they're going to use it as the basis for a sequel to "Inception")
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 10:26:28 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1343 on: November 15, 2017, 10:57:08 am »
And if all goes really well they will get a child molester elected to the senate so the perjured attorney general can take his spot allowing a new AG to curtail the investigation into the president.

...The Aristocrats!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1344 on: November 16, 2017, 08:26:15 am »
And if all goes really well they will get a child molester elected to the senate so the perjured attorney general can take his spot allowing a new AG to curtail the investigation into the president.

...The Aristocrats!

I careen wildly between believing them to be a scheming pile of Machiavellian geniuses, to them being a steaming pile of heartless retards.  I really have no idea if this is a grand scheme or if the media is conjuring plots to try and make sense of just a rolling set of disconnected fuck ups.

Meanwhile, 4 more accusers for Moore come forward and the Alabama GOP - who have the power to decertify Moore so that any votes for him have no meaning and he's ineligible for election - met last night and decided..."Meh."  They did nothing.

Moore is now down in a number of polls, but I don't believe a word of it.  People answering questions to pollsters will give one answer, and when they're in the privacy of the booth, they'll punch the card for the GOP candidate because otherwise Hillary Clinton is going to appoint Barack Obama to the Alabama Senate seat with one simple email sent from her private server in the basement of a pizza parlor and Sharia Law and no guns and stuff.  Now, where's my hammer...I've got a Keurig to smash.  Fucking Ikea!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1345 on: November 16, 2017, 09:26:20 am »
The GOP tax plan is massively unpopular.  Recent polling has it at 52% - 25% disapproval while 60+% think it will favor the wealthy and corporations.  This was before they retrofitted it to be also a repeal of Obamacare that will put up insurance premiums by 10% annually and result in 13 million people losing their coverage.

So, is the Moore stuff and Trump's general Twitter presence a planned distraction, or just situation normal...?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1346 on: November 16, 2017, 09:58:37 am »
Trump just lifted the ban on repatriating hunting trophies.

With every decision he lands on the side that is grotesque and cruel.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1347 on: November 16, 2017, 12:26:35 pm »
Trump just lifted the ban on repatriating hunting trophies.

With every decision he lands on the side that is grotesque and cruel.

Not just hunting trophies, elephant hunting trophies.  I've decided I'm opening a restaurant that serves nothing but golden retriever. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1348 on: November 16, 2017, 02:58:34 pm »
Al Franken is now caught in the harassment net.  He disputes Leann Tweeden's characterization of the kiss she claims Franken aggressively planted on her while the two were on a rehearsing a "bit" for on a VSO tour, but her claim that he had a photo taken of him touching her boobs (admittedly outside her flak jacket) while she was asleep on a flight is indisputable...because there's a photo.  Franken doesn't dispute the photo and apologizes for it.

I think it's great that sex pests galore are getting outed.  There's going to be some tough ones, though, like Franken, where the disappointment will be hard to swallow.  Shame on you, Al.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1349 on: November 16, 2017, 03:01:24 pm »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1350 on: November 16, 2017, 03:22:47 pm »
I'm just shocked me in powerful positions would take advantage of women.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1351 on: November 16, 2017, 03:49:09 pm »
I'm just shocked me in powerful positions would take advantage of women.

Not you too!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1352 on: November 16, 2017, 03:51:45 pm »
I think it's great that sex pests galore are getting outed.  There's going to be some tough ones, though, like Franken, where the disappointment will be hard to swallow.  Shame on you, Al.

Damn right.  There's no room for any of that shit. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1353 on: November 16, 2017, 04:11:14 pm »
Damn right.  There's no room for any of that shit.

Right.  And for every dollop of gleeful schadenfreude from when overt pigs like Moore or Weinstein get tagged, there's going to be a Spacey or Franken that's going to cause a sad.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1354 on: November 16, 2017, 04:26:57 pm »
Speaking of dicks that shouldn't be out in public, the House just passed its version of the tax bill with all Democrats and 13 Republicans voting against.  This bill is presumed to be DOA at the Senate and the Senate bill itself is already on the bubble.  Whatever happens, they are in a race to get the Senate bill resolved prior to the Alabama special election, because they may lose the ironically named Sen. Strange's vote to Moore's Democratic challenger as they are already running out of margin with the ironically named Sen. Johnson already saying he will break from his fellow Republicans and vote nay.  Lots of eyes on the uninterestingly-named Sens Collins, Murkowski and McCain to see how they will vote, now that a partial healthcare repeal has been grafted onto the bill.

It remains to be seen whether the Democrats lose Al Franken's vote in the short term (i.e. if he's forced to step down), but Minnesota's governor is a Democrat and so any appointed replacement will likely be a Democrat too.  Sen. Menendez' corruption trial has ended with the jury hung (ironically), so New Jersey's governor Krisp Krispy doesn't get to appoint Menendez' replacement.  Should a future trial find Menendez guilty, a the duty of replacing him would fall on New Jersey's new, Democratic, governor.  In both cases, a resultant special election would likely return a Democrat to the seat.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1355 on: November 16, 2017, 04:34:06 pm »
Votes missing from the minority don't matter.  49-50 is just as good as 49-51.  That has likely made it easier for the Democrats to say "Sure, let's rid the place of all of em."

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1356 on: November 16, 2017, 05:10:42 pm »
Votes missing from the minority don't matter.  49-50 is just as good as 49-51.  That has likely made it easier for the Democrats to say "Sure, let's rid the place of all of em."

Good point.  Seems the Dems might choose to make an example of Franken - or ask him to fall on his sword - so as to maintain a semblance of purity on this matter.  Of the current crop of harassers, those with left leanings all (I believe) have had some form of comeuppance (with Franken's fate still to be decided).  These being Weinstein, CK, Spacey and - going back a little way - Weiner.  Meanwhile, Moore is hanging around and making things uncomfortable for those on the right and, of course, the Pussy-Grabber-in-Chief is still in the White House (and keeping his dry lips tightly closed on this subject).
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1357 on: November 16, 2017, 08:14:11 pm »
I will eat my confederate flag do-rag if those Alabama pig fuckers don't vote for Moore in overwhelming numbers.

I would have paid good money to see those inbreds try to figure out if their percolator was a Keurig or not.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1358 on: November 17, 2017, 06:47:20 am »
Our pussy-grabber in chief - while still silent on Moore - just went after Al Franken in multiple tweets. 

I’m not shocked, but I’m almost overcome by shock.

This. Is.  Insane. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1359 on: November 21, 2017, 04:06:02 pm »
Trump has finally today responded to - instead of pretending not to hear - questions about Roy Moore:

Trump: "I can tell you one thing for sure. We don't need a liberal person in there, a Democrat. Jones."

Reporter: "Is an accused child molester better than a Democrat?"

Trump: "Well, he denies it. Look, he denies it. I mean, if you look at what is really going on. You look at all the things that have happened over the last 48 hours, he totally denies it. He says it didn't happen. And you know, you have to listen to him also."


One man vs. nine accusers, plus multiple contemporaneous corroborations of the accusers, plus further details such as his banning from a mall for bothering the schoolgirls there, a former police officer used to have to keep Moore away from the cheerleaders at high school football games and the bizarre, self-admitted anecdote that his wife first caught his eye at a high school dance recital. Sure, those are totally equal...

I'm not sure what's more creepy here: the fact that a grown man with no reason to be there was hanging around a high school dance recital, or that he first noticed - in that way - the girl he would later marry when she was 15 or 16 years old (people went back and checked the records).
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1360 on: November 21, 2017, 08:25:12 pm »
"Mr Trump, she misheard, I told that cheerleader I couldn't wait to see Justin Beiber, not Justine's beaver."
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1361 on: November 30, 2017, 04:10:00 pm »
Every day is a Shitnado of racism, bigotry, corruption and incompetence, so I won’t try to offer a digest of events since the last such digest.  I’ll just deal with today’s big story.

No, not the impending firing of Secretary of State Rex Tillerson.

No, not the Muslim-baiting that’s getting Trump uninvited to the UK (probably) and the Royal Wedding (definitely).

No, not Sessions being hauled in front of the House Judiciary Committee behind closed doors.

No, not the ever-expanding sexual harassment sinkhole.

No, it’s the tax bill.  It’s going to pass the Senate tonight, even though they haven’t even finished writing it yet.  They tried to get it done before the Congressional Joint Committee for Taxation issued its analysis, but the JCT rushed out its report today, and it’s everything we already knew and that Republicans have been denying.  Even using the controversial method of dynamic scoring – favored by Republicans because it incorporates the imaginary boost to the economy generated by tax cuts to the wealthy – the bill comes up a little short.  $1 trillion short, to be exact.

This bill is so fucking dishonest that it beggars belief, even for these crooks.  It gives the middle class tax breaks early on, but these breaks expire as time goes on such that those families making less than $100,000 a year will end up paying more in tax in perpetuity.  If you make less than $30,000 a year, you will more than likely start paying more tax right away.  Meanwhile, income tax breaks for the wealthy kick in later but are enshrined.  This has the effect of transferring trillions of dollars from hundreds of millions of Americans up to the 1%.  Oh, and the estate tax repeal, coupled with the “improvement” to carried interest and pass-through loopholes, means that the beneficiaries of inherited wealth can live off that money tax free forever.  Seriously.

Then there’s the corporation tax reduction – predicated entirely on the lie that the US has the highest corporate tax rate on Earth.  It doesn’t.  We’re 38th.  The supporting lie is that businesses will take the tax credit and give it to workers in the form of higher wages.  They won’t; the C-Suite would be voted out at the next AGM if they did.  No, they will take the tax break and do what they did with the last tax break (Bush’s tax amnesty), buy back shares which increases the stock price, making shareholders happy and ballooning CEO pay which is customarily these days tied to the stock price.

Oh, and it has the bonus of kicking 13 million people off health insurance while gutting Medicare / Medicaid to the point that expensive life-saving treatments will be scaled back.  Death panels, anyone?

I am incandescent with rage over this.   
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 04:12:41 pm by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1362 on: November 30, 2017, 05:03:57 pm »
You forgot the bit about Mike Flynn working with the Turks to help the Iranians avoid sanctions. I wonder just what Tom Cotton makes of that.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1363 on: November 30, 2017, 05:19:40 pm »
Every day is a Shitnado of racism, bigotry, corruption and incompetence, so I won’t try to offer a digest of events since the last such digest.  I’ll just deal with today’s big story.

No, not the impending firing of Secretary of State Rex Tillerson.

No, not the Muslim-baiting that’s getting Trump uninvited to the UK (probably) and the Royal Wedding (definitely).

No, not Sessions being hauled in front of the House Judiciary Committee behind closed doors.

No, not the ever-expanding sexual harassment sinkhole.

No, it’s the tax bill.  It’s going to pass the Senate tonight, even though they haven’t even finished writing it yet.  They tried to get it done before the Congressional Joint Committee for Taxation issued its analysis, but the JCT rushed out its report today, and it’s everything we already knew and that Republicans have been denying.  Even using the controversial method of dynamic scoring – favored by Republicans because it incorporates the imaginary boost to the economy generated by tax cuts to the wealthy – the bill comes up a little short.  $1 trillion short, to be exact.

This bill is so fucking dishonest that it beggars belief, even for these crooks.  It gives the middle class tax breaks early on, but these breaks expire as time goes on such that those families making less than $100,000 a year will end up paying more in tax in perpetuity.  If you make less than $30,000 a year, you will more than likely start paying more tax right away.  Meanwhile, income tax breaks for the wealthy kick in later but are enshrined.  This has the effect of transferring trillions of dollars from hundreds of millions of Americans up to the 1%.  Oh, and the estate tax repeal, coupled with the “improvement” to carried interest and pass-through loopholes, means that the beneficiaries of inherited wealth can live off that money tax free forever.  Seriously.

Then there’s the corporation tax reduction – predicated entirely on the lie that the US has the highest corporate tax rate on Earth.  It doesn’t.  We’re 38th.  The supporting lie is that businesses will take the tax credit and give it to workers in the form of higher wages.  They won’t; the C-Suite would be voted out at the next AGM if they did.  No, they will take the tax break and do what they did with the last tax break (Bush’s tax amnesty), buy back shares which increases the stock price, making shareholders happy and ballooning CEO pay which is customarily these days tied to the stock price.

Oh, and it has the bonus of kicking 13 million people off health insurance while gutting Medicare / Medicaid to the point that expensive life-saving treatments will be scaled back.  Death panels, anyone?

I am incandescent with rage over this.   

In addition to being a massive and wholly unjustified transfer of wealth from the professional, middle, and lower classes to the wealthy and crippling the individual health insurance market, it (1) makes graduate school oppressively expensive by taxing tuition waivers  (2)  imposes an endowment tax on universities who rely upon proceeds from endowment earnings to subsidize tuition for lower income students (3) repeals deductions for student loan interest (3) will make it harder for state and local governments to provide social services, transportation, and education by double taxing dollars that go to state and local taxes (4) repeals the Johnson amendment which prevents untraceable money being funneled into politics through tax-exempt churches and (5) prevents immigrants from claiming the child tax credit.

It hits hardest at the most vulnerable in the two most fundamental aspects of their ability to pursue the American dream:  education and healthcare. 

And it's being done without hearings, testimony, analysis, amendment or anything resembling democratic order.  It is utterly despicable. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1364 on: December 01, 2017, 09:44:49 am »
You forgot the bit about Mike Flynn working with the Turks to help the Iranians avoid sanctions. I wonder just what Tom Cotton makes of that.

Flynn to plead guilty to lesser charges of lying to the FBI.  It is presumed that this is a plea deal in return for cooperation in other things.

The noose tightens...
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1365 on: December 01, 2017, 09:50:08 am »
In addition to being a massive and wholly unjustified transfer of wealth from the professional, middle, and lower classes to the wealthy and crippling the individual health insurance market, it (1) makes graduate school oppressively expensive by taxing tuition waivers  (2)  imposes an endowment tax on universities who rely upon proceeds from endowment earnings to subsidize tuition for lower income students (3) repeals deductions for student loan interest (3) will make it harder for state and local governments to provide social services, transportation, and education by double taxing dollars that go to state and local taxes (4) repeals the Johnson amendment which prevents untraceable money being funneled into politics through tax-exempt churches and (5) prevents immigrants from claiming the child tax credit.

It hits hardest at the most vulnerable in the two most fundamental aspects of their ability to pursue the American dream:  education and healthcare. 

And it's being done without hearings, testimony, analysis, amendment or anything resembling democratic order.  It is utterly despicable.

This needs to be included in any future obituary of Orrin Hatch.

Today, Hatch was challenged by Sherrod Brown to take up renewal of the Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP).  Republicans have let slide this piece of admin since October 1.  The program costs $15bn annually.  Hatch bristled at the suggestion that it wouldn't get done, but admonished Brown that he should remember that there just isn't the money to do these things.

To.  Day.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1366 on: December 01, 2017, 10:06:53 am »
You forgot the bit about Mike Flynn working with the Turks to help the Iranians avoid sanctions. I wonder just what Tom Cotton makes of that.

Or conspiring to kidnap an American resident and transport him to an authoritarian regime in exchange for $15 million. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1367 on: December 01, 2017, 10:53:12 am »
ABC is reporting that Flynn will testify that Trump instructed him to reach out to the Russians in 2016 - during the campaign.

I'll let that sink in for a moment...

Given that there are currently 19 known individual Russians who were in contact with the Trump campaign and/or transition team, it seems that this is tip of the iceberg.  The dominoes will start falling now.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1368 on: December 01, 2017, 11:23:49 am »
Here's a somewhat lengthy but informative analysis of what Flynn 's plea bargain means.

Meanwhile, this puts into perspective the urgency to get the tax bill passed this week, when it's still isn't finished being drafted (as of last night, at least).  Direct allegations against Trump will serve also to highlight the complicity of Congressional Republicans, and this will only increase the stink on anything that Congress has passed - which will be basically just this bill.

I have no doubt that there will be a shameless push to get this passed today, and that's its likely to succeed.  What happens to the Republican Party afterwards will be a case study for centuries.  Assuming anyone is left alive then, of course.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1369 on: December 01, 2017, 11:35:51 am »
Flynn has fingered Trump and Kushner according to the court documents filed today.  Finally, an unwanted fingering that we can all get behind!

The White House just described Flynn as an "Obama official".  I shit you not.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1370 on: December 01, 2017, 11:52:59 am »
The White House just described Flynn as an "Obama official".  I shit you not.

One that Obama specifically warned Trump against keeping around. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1371 on: December 01, 2017, 12:10:22 pm »
Or conspiring to kidnap an American resident and transport him to an authoritarian regime in exchange for $15 million.

Yeah, that was cute, too. You know, I've read in many places (and have observed) that Trump takes pages if not full chapters from the dictator's playbook. Nowhere is this more evident than when you compare Trump with Erdogan. Trump's FAKE NEWS is Erdogan's Gulen. That is one powerful motherscratcher, that Gulen, able as he is to be a global mastermind from a futon in a hunting shack in the Poconos somewhere. It's amazing that Gulen is able to control every facet of Turkish life in a place with such spotty cell service. Just wait until they do away with net neutrality and Gulen has to pay extra to get on the fast lane to memurlar.net.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1372 on: December 01, 2017, 12:15:19 pm »
The White House just described Flynn as an "Obama official".  I shit you not.

They tried this shit back in April, too. I think they said that it's all Obama's fault because he didn't vet Flynn properly, something like that.

When the whip comes down on Trumpy it's going to be hilarious to watch him ping pong between fake news and it's Obama's fault.

And it's going to be depressing to watch the pigfucking Trumpspunkers slurp up every dripping syllable.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1373 on: December 01, 2017, 12:24:58 pm »
Yeah, that was cute, too. You know, I've read in many places (and have observed) that Trump takes pages if not full chapters from the dictator's playbook. Nowhere is this more evident than when you compare Trump with Erdogan. Trump's FAKE NEWS is Erdogan's Gulen. That is one powerful motherscratcher, that Gulen, able as he is to be a global mastermind from a futon in a hunting shack in the Poconos somewhere. It's amazing that Gulen is able to control every facet of Turkish life in a place with such spotty cell service. Just wait until they do away with net neutrality and Gulen has to pay extra to get on the fast lane to memurlar.net.

I believe "Fethullah Gülen" is Turkish for "Emmanuel Goldstein".
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1374 on: December 01, 2017, 12:27:04 pm »
And it's going to be depressing to watch the pigfucking Trumpspunkers slurp up every dripping syllable.

What a delightful mental image.  Thanks!  You just saved me from having to get lunch today.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1375 on: December 02, 2017, 10:54:04 pm »
ABC is reporting that Flynn will testify that Trump instructed him to reach out to the Russians in 2016 - during the campaign.

I'll let that sink in for a moment...


You were lied to. Again.

Does this cause a sad?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1376 on: December 03, 2017, 09:17:07 am »
I'm just excited about my tax break!  What?  Oh. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1377 on: December 03, 2017, 12:56:27 pm »
You were lied to. Again.

Does this cause a sad?

That guy, rightfully so was suspended.

Meanwhile the President of the United States lies over and over and over, and his own party/backers refuse to hold him accountable

Does this cause a sad?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1378 on: December 03, 2017, 03:29:32 pm »
That guy, rightfully so was suspended.

Meanwhile the President of the United States lies over and over and over, and his own party/backers refuse to hold him accountable

Does this cause a sad?
If I have always expected politicians to lie, should I expect more from their enablers in the press?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1379 on: December 05, 2017, 01:59:35 pm »
John Dowd, Trump's lawyer who for some reason which I cannot fathom is claiming that he authored Trump's twitter confession to obstruction of justice, is the same John Dowd of the Dowd Report which summarized the investigation into Pete Rose's gambling.  He has other baseball connections too:

He’s most famous, however, for leading Major League Baseball’s investigation into Pete Rose after allegations emerged that Rose bet on baseball. The first reports of Rose’s gambling came in Sports Illustrated in March of 1989. Dowd was hired as Special Counsel on April 3. He delivered his report on Rose’s gambling to Commissioner Bart Giamatti in May. By August Rose realized that Dowd had him dead to rights. Rose agreed to the permanent ban, essentially pleading no contest to Dowd’s damning report. With that, Rose’s time in baseball was over. Dowd, however, would continue to handle investigations for Major League Baseball, looking into gambling allegations against Lenny Dykstra and some umpires and into George Steinbrenner’s hiring of a gambler named Howie Spira to dig up dirt on outfielder Dave Winfield. Dowd’s work got Steinbrenner banned for a time too.



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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1380 on: December 05, 2017, 05:10:07 pm »
John Dowd, Trump's lawyer who for some reason which I cannot fathom is claiming that he authored Trump's twitter confession to obstruction of justice, is the same John Dowd of the Dowd Report which summarized the investigation into Pete Rose's gambling.  He has other baseball connections too:

I have seen pundits make the point that the tweet being authored by Trump's attorney gives it more weight, not less.  Also, the tweet and the public statements about who wrote it are not subject to privilege, so Mueller can put Dowd under oath and ask him if he really did write it.   Either way it appears he's in a no win situation ethically.  Also, if he really wrote it, he would've been fired by now.

Once again, a Trump lawyer may need a lawyer.  They're going to run out of people prepared to jump into this legal minefield.  I saw a tweet that reminded those in Trump's orbit that, while 15 of Nixon's staff went to jail over Watergate, Nixon himself walked scott free...
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1381 on: December 06, 2017, 12:53:09 pm »
I have seen pundits make the point that the tweet being authored by Trump's attorney gives it more weight, not less.  Also, the tweet and the public statements about who wrote it are not subject to privilege, so Mueller can put Dowd under oath and ask him if he really did write it.   Either way it appears he's in a no win situation ethically.  Also, if he really wrote it, he would've been fired by now.

Once again, a Trump lawyer may need a lawyer.  They're going to run out of people prepared to jump into this legal minefield.  I saw a tweet that reminded those in Trump's orbit that, while 15 of Nixon's staff went to jail over Watergate, Nixon himself walked scott free...

Someone pointed out last night that the language of the tweet - "pled guilty" - pretty much rules out Dowd authoring it; any 1L would say "pleaded guilty".
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1382 on: December 06, 2017, 04:02:40 pm »
Someone pointed out last night that the language of the tweet - "pled guilty" - pretty much rules out Dowd authoring it; any 1L would say "pleaded guilty".

Is anyone really falling for the "my lawyer wrote it" defense?

SNL had it right that every week is so chock full of front page, administration-ending news that 75% of it gets bumped to the social pages.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1383 on: December 07, 2017, 09:41:35 am »
Trump Jr. spent 8 hours on Capitol Hill yesterday, testifying to the House Intelligence Committee.  It was a closed-door session, so there's not going to be a transcript or any discussion of what he said, but that doesn't mean that committee members can't talk about what he didn't say.

Jr. was asked if he'd ever discussed the June '16 meeting with various Bond villains Russians.  He said he had, but that he would not say what he discussed because of Attorney-Client privilege;  there were attorneys in the room at the time, apparently.

TZ lawyers......GO!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1384 on: December 07, 2017, 10:23:25 am »
Those Hill hearings don't mean shit.  The fucking jokes in charge of the committee could care less.  Just going through the motions.  "OK, Donnie, can't remember on that one, check, next question."  Lame ass theater.

It's all up to Mueller's investigation, and the fuckers ruining the country are now trying to tear him down.  All in the name of propping up this piece of shit called Trump.  History will be very unkind to the cowards who failed to oversee, and to all their citizen enablers (Trump's base).

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1385 on: December 07, 2017, 03:34:05 pm »
Trump Jr. spent 8 hours on Capitol Hill yesterday, testifying to the House Intelligence Committee.  It was a closed-door session, so there's not going to be a transcript or any discussion of what he said, but that doesn't mean that committee members can't talk about what he didn't say.

Jr. was asked if he'd ever discussed the June '16 meeting with various Bond villains Russians.  He said he had, but that he would not say what he discussed because of Attorney-Client privilege;  there were attorneys in the room at the time, apparently.

TZ lawyers......GO!

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1386 on: December 07, 2017, 03:48:16 pm »
Trump Jr. spent 8 hours on Capitol Hill yesterday, testifying to the House Intelligence Committee.  It was a closed-door session, so there's not going to be a transcript or any discussion of what he said, but that doesn't mean that committee members can't talk about what he didn't say.

Jr. was asked if he'd ever discussed the June '16 meeting with various Bond villains Russians.  He said he had, but that he would not say what he discussed because of Attorney-Client privilege;  there were attorneys in the room at the time, apparently.

TZ lawyers......GO!

I hope they asked him who the lawyer was and they bring him in next.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1387 on: December 07, 2017, 03:54:44 pm »
I hope they asked him who the lawyer was and they bring him in next.

He wouldn't be able to tell because it was confidential.  And anyway nobody can tell lawyers apart. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1388 on: December 07, 2017, 07:05:10 pm »
Trump Jr. spent 8 hours on Capitol Hill yesterday, testifying to the House Intelligence Committee.  It was a closed-door session, so there's not going to be a transcript or any discussion of what he said, but that doesn't mean that committee members can't talk about what he didn't say.

Jr. was asked if he'd ever discussed the June '16 meeting with various Bond villains Russians.  He said he had, but that he would not say what he discussed because of Attorney-Client privilege;  there were attorneys in the room at the time, apparently.

TZ lawyers......GO!

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1389 on: December 13, 2017, 08:07:16 am »
I will eat my confederate flag do-rag if those Alabama pig fuckers don't vote for Moore in overwhelming numbers.


I think a pairing with ranch is appropriate.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1390 on: December 14, 2017, 09:50:16 am »
I think a pairing with ranch is appropriate.

To be fair, white people still voted for Moore in overwhelming numbers.  I think that's who chuck was referencing.

It was the overwhelming turnout and overwhelming support for Jones from the African-American communities that tipped the balance.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1391 on: December 14, 2017, 09:51:36 am »
And anyway nobody can tell lawyers apart.

Roy Moore makes his Jew lawyer wear a yellow star so he knows which one it is.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1392 on: December 14, 2017, 10:50:03 am »
So glad he lost. This is a giant step in the proper direction. Southern change gonna come at last. Hallelujah!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1393 on: December 14, 2017, 11:15:17 am »
So glad he lost. This is a giant step in the proper direction. Southern change gonna come at last. Hallelujah!

One thing I think I haven't seen discussed much is the failure of the Voter ID law to continue suppressing the minority vote.  Alabama's has been in place since 2011 and so it's been through a number of election cycles already.  With African-Americans making up 25% of the population but 30% of the electorate on Tuesday, it seems that the effectiveness of the law has an expiry date.  Those who were originally disenfranchised by it appear to have obtained an approved ID and are using it against those who took away their vote in the first place.

If the same is true in Texas, Ted Cruz is in a lot of trouble.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1394 on: December 15, 2017, 07:38:39 am »
One thing I think I haven't seen discussed much is the failure of the Voter ID law to continue suppressing the minority vote.  Alabama's has been in place since 2011 and so it's been through a number of election cycles already.  With African-Americans making up 25% of the population but 30% of the electorate on Tuesday, it seems that the effectiveness of the law has an expiry date.  Those who were originally disenfranchised by it appear to have obtained an approved ID and are using it against those who took away their vote in the first place.

If the same is true in Texas, Ted Cruz is in a lot of trouble.

While African-Americans don't make up 30% of the electorate in Texas, Hispanics do.  I think Teddy is in a heap of trouble.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1395 on: December 15, 2017, 08:46:13 am »
While African-Americans don't make up 30% of the electorate in Texas, Hispanics do.  I think Teddy is in a heap of trouble.

Yeah, we're a majority-minority state.  HIspanics aren't the reliable 90+% Democratic voting bloc that African-Americans are, but DACA repeal, border walls and general racist shit-baggery coming from the White House is a stank that's going to be hard to run clear of.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1396 on: December 15, 2017, 08:53:55 am »
Profiles in Courage:  Paul Ryan

He's not going to run for re-election in 2018.  So, he's going to ram through this deeply unpopular tax bill (that gets more unpopular by the day and will be a disaster if implemented) and then run for the hills.  What a humongous douchebag.  The expectation is that he's trying to avoid getting too much Trump on him so that he can run for Prez in 2020 or, more likely, 2024.  In the meantime, he can sit and snipe from the sidelines like the spineless piece of shit he truly is.

Ideally for Ryan, Trump will lose in 2020 to a Democrat who - being a grown up like Obama and Clinton before that - will try and fix the black hole at the center of the federal budget called the Tax and Jobs Act - and then Ryan can run against said Democrat as someone who will cut the job-killing tax increases just implemented by the Democrat-in-Chief.  It may well work too.  It's so weird that he has this reputation of being a wonk and a thinker, when he's really not at all bright; just craven, baby-faced and the tallest pygmy in the GOP.

I fucking hate Paul Ryan.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1397 on: December 15, 2017, 09:14:27 am »
2018 arithmetic:

Trump appears to be all out of political juice.  He's backed three losers in a row and is more underwater in the polls than the Titanic.  The spectre of Doug Jones has just handed the levers of power to any number of moderate Republican senators who will be able to torpedo any bill going forward and so will be able to extract maximum compensation for a "yes" vote.  Ryan's apparent decision not to run for re-election in 2018 means that his House caucus has little or no reason to support him.

Meanwhile, the average swing to Democrats in recent elections - even in races they lost because the existing deficit was too large to overcome - is 10%.  That puts about 40 House Republicans in serious danger of being ousted by an energized electorate and a Democratic Party that finds itself awash with quality candidates.  For example, in 2018 Democrats will contest every district in Texas; the first time this has happened in 25 years.  When they did this in the Virginia state races, they erased an unassailable Republican majority with a 32% swing - partly the result of many counties having a Democrat to vote for on the ballot for the first time in forever.

So, the tax bill is the canary in this coalmine.  Corker has already balked and now Rubio - likely trying to preserve credibility for another Presidential run - is now saying he's out because they took the 1% he wanted added back to the corporate tax rate that he wanted to use to expand the child tax credit and used it to lower the top tax rate; yeah, they're that cunty.  Flake has been getting shit on this while Collins and Murkowski must be seeing how this story ends for them if they go along.  Also, John McCain is in hospital in Arizona although he says he expects to be able to attend the vote next week. 

(That will be a towering moment of juxtaposition as a man receiving tax-payer funded cancer treatment rises from his hospital bed to cast a vote to take away cancer treatment from Medicaid patients and throw 13 million people off health insurance.  Will McCain really seal the death of his reputation in support of these clowns?)

McConnell et al are now on life-support, and also now have an actual time crunch (as opposed to the self-imposed time crunch of trying to get this bill passed before the year ends and before people had a chance to read it) as he won't be able to deny Doug Jones his senate seat forever.  Mike Pence cancelled an official visit (to India, I think) in order to be around to break a tie - so as to add this to the long list of bills crashed through 51/50, 5/4 or 3/2 (in the case of net neutrality).  Because...democracy.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 09:16:47 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1398 on: December 15, 2017, 09:28:31 am »
One more thing for the day:  uber-Christian Mike Pence is a pariah in the Middle East because of Trump's decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.  This has thrown a giant wrench into his Middle East tour such that Christian leaders are refusing to meet with him and his planned visit to the subterranean shrine in Bethlehem said to be the birthplace of Jesus...has been cancelled.

Awesome!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1399 on: December 15, 2017, 10:45:38 am »

(That will be a towering moment of juxtaposition as a man receiving tax-payer funded cancer treatment rises from his hospital bed to cast a vote to take away cancer treatment from Medicaid patients and throw 13 million people off health insurance.  Will McCain really seal the death of his reputation in support of these clowns?)


Let's not forget the venality of someone with a likely fatal medical condition who happens to be worth over $20 million dollars voting for a bill that will (1) throw 13 million people off health insurance (2) make graduate school significantly if not prohibitively more expensive for the very people researching cures for that condition that could benefit others in the future and (3) either scrap the estate tax altogether or extend it to $20 million for his soon to be heirs (assuming he bequeaths directly to his kids and not his wife who herself is worth over $100 million). 
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 10:51:16 am by Bench »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1400 on: December 15, 2017, 10:54:09 am »
Let's not forget the venality of someone with a likely fatal medical condition who happens to be worth over $20 million dollars voting for a bill that will (1) throw 13 million people off health insurance (2) make graduate school significantly if not prohibitively more expensive for the very people researching cures for that condition that could benefit others in the future and (3) either scrap the estate tax altogether or extend it to $20 million for his soon to be heirs (assuming he bequeaths directly to his kids and not his wife who herself is worth over $100 million).

Shit.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1401 on: December 15, 2017, 11:32:32 am »
The expectation is that he's trying to avoid getting too much Trump on him so that he can run for Prez in 2020 or, more likely, 2024.

I'm sure he'll receive tremendous support from the fellows on his cell block.

Meanwhile, Roy Moore is claiming voter suppression. Many of the polling places in Alabama of course are schools, and a significant portion of his base is not allowed within 100 yards.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1402 on: December 15, 2017, 11:50:04 am »
Meanwhile, Roy Moore is claiming voter suppression. Many of the polling places in Alabama of course are schools, and a significant portion of his base is not allowed within 100 yards.

* Rimshot*

I think it's pretty funny that - presumably anticipating a squeaker win for Moore - Alabamian election officials fought to the State Supreme Court to get a ban on counties retaining electronic images of electronic ballots, which would make a recount damn near impossible.  So, even if Moore gets close enough to trigger a recount (he cannot order one as has been reported, that's only an avenue for in-state elections, not Federal), they won't be able to do one.  Genius!

As to his refusal to concede...so effing what?!!  The vote will be certified, he will have lost and Jones will be sat when McConnell is good and ready (sometime in 2023).
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1403 on: December 15, 2017, 12:09:23 pm »
As to his refusal to concede...so effing what?!!  The vote will be certified, he will have lost and Jones will be sat when McConnell is good and ready (sometime in 2023).

Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.

Oh yeah, someone remind Yertle of Scott Brown.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1404 on: December 15, 2017, 01:17:23 pm »
Oh yeah, someone remind Yertle of Scott Brown.

That Republicans are terrified of the routine functioning of a democracy tells you all you need to know.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1405 on: December 15, 2017, 02:21:18 pm »
Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.

The horse doesn't deserve that.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1406 on: December 15, 2017, 02:50:32 pm »
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1407 on: December 15, 2017, 03:57:10 pm »
Corker and Rubio just flipped to "yes" on the tax bill.  Game over.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1408 on: December 15, 2017, 04:35:55 pm »
Corker and Rubio just flipped to "yes" on the tax bill.  Game over.

Mrs. MM's firm expects passage tonight.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1409 on: December 16, 2017, 04:39:15 pm »
Mrs. MM's firm expects passage tonight.

It's going to the House floor early next week, then back to the Senate then to Trump's desk.  It'll be implemented on 1/1 with no rules written and no ability for employers to adjust withholdings accordingly.  It's going to be an administrative mess for the first year at least.

FYI, in addition to dropping the top tax rate from 39% to 37.5%, they added a special tax break for real estate LLCs.  Trump and Corker have real estate LLCs.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1410 on: December 18, 2017, 11:39:40 am »
The ridiculous freakout by TrumpWorld over Mueller's acquisition of emails sent from government servers is as hilarious as it is telling.  There is nothing wrong with Mueller's approach here, because the emails in question are the property of the US government, not the Trump campaign (which is why they bitched to Congress instead of going to court, because they have no legal leg on which to stand).  It's unusual for prosecutors to get a data dump like this - usually preferring to get curated records from those being investigated - but this just shows how little Mueller trusts TrumpWorld to give a complete rendering of the email correspondence.

TrumpWorlders found out about this email acquisition rather abruptly when they sauntered into interviews with Mueller's team, confident that Mueller didn't have the email goods, only to find out how wrong they were.  Hopefully, somewhere, there's a montage of shit-eating grins getting wiped off eminently punchable faces.

This will only infuriate / terrify Trump further, and speed his inevitable firing on Mueller.  The RWNM is already working on destroying the reputation of this dedicated public servant, war hero and lifelong Republican.  Word is that Trump is going to drop the hammer once Congress recesses to count its money from the tax bill heist.  He has three options to get this done:  (1) replace Sessions as AG and recess-appoint someone who is not recused from the Russia investigation who will do it; (2) demand Rosenstein fire Mueller and engage in "Saturday night massacre" serial firing until he finds his Robert Bork; or (3) claim authority to do it himself, and have Mueller forcibly removed from his office when he refuses to accept Trump's pink slip.

Any of these three will ignite a firestorm of a constitutional crisis, that Congressional Republicans will do their best to ignore.  Maybe they'll ban the words "constitution" and "crisis" and hide under their desks until it's over.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 11:41:56 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1411 on: December 19, 2017, 08:53:52 am »
Something to put a pin in for when the indictments really start flying:  the Trump campaign was warned by the FBI in July 2016 - just after he became the nominee - that Russia would likely try and infiltrate his campaign (Clinton got the same warning).  By the time Trump got this warning, however, his campaign staff and family members had already had at least half-a-dozen meetings with Russian that we know of, yet no one seemed motivated to mention this to the FBI.

So, when they claim that they didn't think there was anything wrong (while violating any number of campaign and national security regulations), they were actually fully aware that this was a threat, the nature of the threat, and from where it would come.  Instead of guarding against the threat and/or reporting the attempted contacts, they decided that it was a good idea to see what was in it for themselves.

An interesting aside, based on when the FBI opened its investigation into collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, it's likely that the agents giving the Russia briefing to Trump already knew that contacts had taken place.  It must have been very surreal to give the briefing, expecting some amount of fessing up, and getting nothing.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1412 on: December 21, 2017, 11:34:38 am »
Here's a handy-dandy calculator, to see how much of the $1.5 trillion giveaway you're getting.

Me, I'm saving $1,000 in 2018, which will be eroded overtime as the brackets don't keep up with inflation and the personal tax rate cuts sunset in a few year.  Meanwhile, if my health insurance goes up by 10% more a year (compounding) as is projected because of the repeal of the individual mandate, it'll cost me $500 more in 2019, $1,050 more in 2020 (and there goes my tax saving) and I'm properly underwater and getting worse in 2021 and beyond.

Most people will save in 2018, because it's designed specifically that way being an election year.  It's why the bill was rushed through, but will now sit on Trump's desk until January because, if signed before the end of the year, the automatic cuts to Medicaid that this bill creates would start right away.  By delaying signing until next year, the cuts don't come until 2019.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1413 on: December 21, 2017, 01:25:20 pm »
I own an office building I rent back to myself at an exorbitant rate via a pass-through LLC so fuck you and your healthcare you goddamn plebe.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1414 on: December 21, 2017, 01:27:28 pm »
Here's a handy-dandy calculator, to see how much of the $1.5 trillion giveaway you're getting.

Me, I'm saving $1,000 in 2018, which will be eroded overtime as the brackets don't keep up with inflation and the personal tax rate cuts sunset in a few year.  Meanwhile, if my health insurance goes up by 10% more a year (compounding) as is projected because of the repeal of the individual mandate, it'll cost me $500 more in 2019, $1,050 more in 2020 (and there goes my tax saving) and I'm properly underwater and getting worse in 2021 and beyond.

Most people will save in 2018, because it's designed specifically that way being an election year.  It's why the bill was rushed through, but will now sit on Trump's desk until January because, if signed before the end of the year, the automatic cuts to Medicaid that this bill creates would start right away.  By delaying signing until next year, the cuts don't come until 2019.

Wow. I’m saving almost 3 grand next year.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1415 on: December 21, 2017, 01:57:37 pm »
Wow. I’m saving almost 3 grand next year.

Multiply that by 5...and then add three zeros...and you're up with Trump.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1416 on: December 21, 2017, 02:09:24 pm »
I own an office building I rent back to myself at an exorbitant rate via a pass-through LLC so fuck you and your healthcare you goddamn plebe.

Mrs Limey is a realtor, which means she's self-employed in real estate.  We're seriously going to look into setting up an LLC for her so that she can take advantage of the pass-through loophole.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1417 on: December 21, 2017, 02:16:41 pm »
Mrs Limey is a realtor, which means she's self-employed in real estate.  We're seriously going to look into setting up an LLC for her so that she can take advantage of the pass-through loophole.

Let me know if you desire any assistance in selecting a monocle and a cravat. Also, you can never go far wrong in one of those money bag shirts designed by that fat fucking idiot son of one of those Koch suckers.

Although to be honest his shirts are a little loud, which makes the cravat pairing trickier than it otherwise might be. But what the hell, in Monaco the rules are just different, wouldn't you say?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1418 on: December 21, 2017, 02:33:45 pm »
Let me know if you desire any assistance in selecting a monocle and a cravat. Also, you can never go far wrong in one of those money bag shirts designed by that fat fucking idiot son of one of those Koch suckers.

Although to be honest his shirts are a little loud, which makes the cravat pairing trickier than it otherwise might be. But what the hell, in Monaco the rules are just different, wouldn't you say?

I am still a little confused why that pudgy waste of space is the poster child for the tax bill, when we already have Don Jr., Erik and Ivanka, who are all as useful as a chocolate teapot.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1419 on: December 21, 2017, 02:43:22 pm »
Little Koch and the Trump kids will be examples of how wealth trickles down and then evaporates.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1420 on: December 21, 2017, 03:21:19 pm »
I follow politics, but haven't followed this tax bill other than headlines.

By the calculator I get to save around $4000.  That's just my individual case, but it's not the doom and gloom I've been hearing from the media.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1421 on: December 21, 2017, 03:52:28 pm »
Little Koch and the Trump kids will be examples of how wealth trickles down and then evaporates.

It doesn't evaporate; it gets enshrined in tax-free inheritance and tax-free carried interest thereafter (oh yeah, they left the carried interest loophole in there too).  What it doesn't do, is create jobs.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1422 on: December 21, 2017, 03:55:58 pm »
I follow politics, but haven't followed this tax bill other than headlines.

By the calculator I get to save around $4000.  That's just my individual case, but it's not the doom and gloom I've been hearing from the media.


I am happy for you.  But, unless your income is from carried interest or a pass-through, all your tax cuts will erode over time and expire completely in 2025.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1423 on: December 21, 2017, 04:00:47 pm »
I realize it gets passed down with little to no government cut, but after that, in those incompetent hands, it basically evaporates.  My inarticulate point is that it is a bad misuse if capital, sort of the opposite of the theory they use to justify this shit. It trickles down to bad shirts and shitty real estate investments.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1424 on: December 21, 2017, 04:14:56 pm »
I realize it gets passed down with little to no government cut, but after that, in those incompetent hands, it basically evaporates.  My inarticulate point is that it is a bad misuse if capital, sort of the opposite of the theory they use to justify this shit. It trickles down to bad shirts and shitty real estate investments.

Gotcha.

Yes, there is the potential for inheritance to be wasted but, in reality, the dynastic fortunes that have been accumulated by the 0.1% - one of the things the estate tax is meant to prevent - are pretty much impossible to blow.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1425 on: December 21, 2017, 04:41:33 pm »
Yes, there is the potential for inheritance to be wasted but, in reality, the dynastic fortunes that have been accumulated by the 0.1% - one of the things the estate tax is meant to prevent - are pretty much impossible to blow.

That depends largely on how many defense attorneys you have to hire.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1426 on: December 21, 2017, 11:10:50 pm »
I follow politics, but haven't followed this tax bill other than headlines.

By the calculator I get to save around $4000.  That's just my individual case, but it's not the doom and gloom I've been hearing from the media.

The difference is you could save much more than that and it not be temporary and more people get healthcare and disability insurance and food stamps and public education and higher education and social security and public radio and arts and infrastructure and defense and all the shit that government should exist for without compromising those values so that wealthy layabout heirs can be even more wealthy.

The entire point of this country is that all people are created equally and should be afforded an equal chance.  The only way that promise can be met is if everyone is given a legitimate chance to succeed on their own, regardless of the circumstances of their birth.  If you think that government exists to make society better and to give everyone an equal chance of accomplishing all they are capable of then you are against this tax bill.  If you think that the sperm lottery should decide everyone's fate then this tax bill will increase the multitude of benefits that you have already received by luck and birth. 
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 11:19:42 pm by Bench »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1427 on: December 22, 2017, 12:26:52 am »
I follow politics, but haven't followed this tax bill other than headlines.

By the calculator I get to save around $4000.  That's just my individual case, but it's not the doom and gloom I've been hearing from the media.

I’m so happy that you were one of the lucky peasants that received one of the gold coins tossed out of the wagon on its way to the castle. Congrats....

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1428 on: December 22, 2017, 06:34:53 am »
I follow politics, but haven't followed this tax bill other than headlines.

By the calculator I get to save around $4000.  That's just my individual case, but it's not the doom and gloom I've been hearing from the media.

Generally there are winners in every tax brackets, and losers in every tax bracket.  It seems to largely depend on whether you're in a high local tax state.  The largest winners are in high tax brackets--1% means more to someone making $40,000,000 than to someone making $4,000.  For me there are three real questions.  Why, when the economy is doing relatively well, do we need to increase the deficit by $1.5 billion?  How do the corporate tax cuts and the change in taxation of offshore income incentivize US corporations to invest in US jobs?  Why were some special interest advantages like real estate development added?

I can probably think of more.   
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1429 on: December 22, 2017, 08:23:39 am »
Generally there are winners in every tax brackets, and losers in every tax bracket.  It seems to largely depend on whether you're in a high local tax state.  The largest winners are in high tax brackets--1% means more to someone making $40,000,000 than to someone making $4,000.  For me there are three real questions.  Why, when the economy is doing relatively well, do we need to increase the deficit by $1.5 billion?  How do the corporate tax cuts and the change in taxation of offshore income incentivize US corporations to invest in US jobs?  Why were some special interest advantages like real estate development added?

I can probably think of more.

More study of this bill is unearthing more ridiculous double-standards.  For example, for you lawyers out there, the pass-through provisions for partners gives very generous tax breaks whereas a similarly remunerated employee will be paying full freight income tax.  It's now expected that many individuals will become LLCs, employees will "resign" to become consultants - under LLCs - and, the holy grail, firms will incorporate to lock in the 21% corporate tax rate.

I doubt very much that any of this was considered when the plans were written, so expect such tax avoidance schemes to further erode the already thin revenue going forward.  Once again, one rule for the rich...
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1430 on: December 22, 2017, 08:25:45 am »
That depends largely on how many defense attorneys you have to hire.

Well, until recently at least, the RNC - i.e. campaign donors - were paying the legal bills of Big Donnie and Little Donnie...
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1431 on: December 22, 2017, 10:22:25 am »
Once again, one rule for the rich...
It's always been like that. Sad.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1432 on: December 22, 2017, 10:52:04 am »
Meanwhile, Trump is still dispatching his flying monkeys to throw shit around in different parts of the world.  Peter Hoekstra is a raving wingnut, founder member of the Tea Party caucus and finder of non-existent WMDs in Iraq when on the House "Intelligence" Committee.  As a Dutch-born American, he would seem to be the perfect choice to be the US Ambassador to The Netherlands, and he was duly sworn in as such by chief presidential fluffer Mike Pence on December 11.  So far, it's gone about as expected.

Hoekstra was asked by a Dutch reporter why he'd said that there are no-go areas in The Netherlands because Muslims are burning cars and politicians - a claim that's ridiculously untrue. Pete said he'd never said those things and called the report fake news.  The reporter then played Hoekstra a video clip of him saying that there are no-go areas in The Netherlands because Muslims are burning cars and politicians, and asked why he called it fake news.  Hoekstra then denied having used the term "fake news".

Another former Republican Congressman, Scott Brown, is under investigation by the State Department for, basically, creeping out the entire South Pacific while trying to fulfill his duties as Ambassador to New Zealand.

And then there's the whole Jerusalem debacle, the pathetic schoolyard bullying tactic - that was completely ignored as only 7 countries other than the US and Israel were prepared to say that it was ok to flip a giant middle finger to the Palestinians.  Ambassador Haley's whining speech to the UN was a complete embarrassment, as was the decision to throw a party for everyone who didn't go against the US in the recent vote.  Basically throwing a losers' party after getting excluded from the cool kids' party.  Something else the US is excluded from now, is any further involvement in the Middle East peacemaking process.

It took Trump less than a year to topple the US' from its position as leader of the free world.  With Trudeaux in Canada, we're not even the leader of the north American continent.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1433 on: December 22, 2017, 11:25:01 am »
To me the tax plan is just Republicans finding another way to grab me by the pussy.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1434 on: December 22, 2017, 11:28:38 am »
More study of this bill is unearthing more ridiculous double-standards.  For example, for you lawyers out there, the pass-through provisions for partners gives very generous tax breaks . . ..

Wait, wait, are you saying this is a problem?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1435 on: December 22, 2017, 11:55:20 am »
I'm wondering if, when I retire, I can establish an LLC for my investment activity and then use the pass-through provisions for distributions. Sphinx, research that for me, will you?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1436 on: December 22, 2017, 12:47:56 pm »
I'm wondering if, when I retire, I can establish an LLC for my investment activity and then use the pass-through provisions for distributions. Sphinx, research that for me, will you?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1437 on: December 22, 2017, 01:31:24 pm »
Wait, wait, are you saying this is a problem?

It's a feature, not a bug.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1438 on: December 22, 2017, 01:33:01 pm »
I'm wondering if, when I retire, I can establish an LLC for my investment activity and then use the pass-through provisions for distributions. Sphinx, research that for me, will you?

If it's real estate investment...absolutely.  Other investment might work, if you live of carried interest or dividends.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1439 on: December 23, 2017, 10:17:30 am »

I am happy for you.  But, unless your income is from carried interest or a pass-through, all your tax cuts will erode over time and expire completely in 2025.

I'm a draftsman in petrochemical engineering.  Middle class...dad retired as a pipefitter.  I'm sure I'll inherit a welding machine though!

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1440 on: December 23, 2017, 10:26:42 am »
Generally there are winners in every tax brackets, and losers in every tax bracket.  It seems to largely depend on whether you're in a high local tax state.  The largest winners are in high tax brackets--1% means more to someone making $40,000,000 than to someone making $4,000.  For me there are three real questions.  Why, when the economy is doing relatively well, do we need to increase the deficit by $1.5 billion?  How do the corporate tax cuts and the change in taxation of offshore income incentivize US corporations to invest in US jobs?  Why were some special interest advantages like real estate development added?

I can probably think of more.

I agree, there is no need to increase the deficit.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1441 on: December 23, 2017, 10:40:28 am »
I’m so happy that you were one of the lucky peasants that received one of the gold coins tossed out of the wagon on its way to the castle. Congrats....

So are the amounts from this tax bill not benefiting the middle class or not? It did for my family. I passed the calculator to a few friends...they got tossed gold coins too. 

I've only seen myself and one other poster share what the calculators findings are in this thread.  Both are a benefit in savings...at least in the short term.  I'll have to read a bit more on the effects in the years to come.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1442 on: December 23, 2017, 11:34:31 am »
So are the amounts from this tax bill not benefiting the middle class or not? It did for my family. I passed the calculator to a few friends...they got tossed gold coins too. 

I've only seen myself and one other poster share what the calculators findings are in this thread.  Both are a benefit in savings...at least in the short term.  I'll have to read a bit more on the effects in the years to come.

I think the bottom line is that middle class tax cuts are temporary, corporate tax cuts are permanent, so it's the fact that middle class taxes go up in a few years is what's paying for the corporate tax cut.  Otherwise, this could not be passed using the reconciliation process.

At the same time, it's creating an extra $5,000 of debt for every man, woman and child in the country.  Who is going to pay that bill when it comes due?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1443 on: December 23, 2017, 03:28:45 pm »
At the same time, it's creating an extra $5,000 of debt for every man, woman and child in the country.  Who is going to pay that bill when it comes due?

The same people who will have to pay the $20 trillion or so of already existing debt?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1444 on: December 23, 2017, 03:38:19 pm »
The same people who will have to pay the $20 trillion or so of already existing debt?

yeah.  them.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1445 on: December 23, 2017, 03:39:05 pm »
I think the bottom line is that middle class tax cuts are temporary, corporate tax cuts are permanent, so it's the fact that middle class taxes go up in a few years is what's paying for the corporate tax cut.  Otherwise, this could not be passed using the reconciliation process.

At the same time, it's creating an extra $5,000 of debt for every man, woman and child in the country.  Who is going to pay that bill when it comes due?

That's clearly stated and helps me understand, thanks!

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1446 on: December 24, 2017, 09:24:05 am »
I've only seen myself and one other poster share what the calculators findings are in this thread.  Both are a benefit in savings...at least in the short term.  I'll have to read a bit more on the effects in the years to come.

According to the calculator, I will benefit quite a bit next year.  However; 1) there are the long-term implications, and 2) it's not all about me. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1447 on: December 24, 2017, 02:57:44 pm »
According to the calculator, I will benefit quite a bit next year.  However; 1) there are the long-term implications, and 2) it's not all about me.

Hear here.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1448 on: December 24, 2017, 04:36:09 pm »
2) it's not all about me.
Too bad, I think you would be a benevolent Dictator and things would be better across the spectrum of humanity for all.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1449 on: December 24, 2017, 05:37:53 pm »
Too bad, I think you would be a benevolent Dictator and things would be better across the spectrum of humanity for all.

I was assuming that he said that because he knew it was all about me. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1450 on: January 03, 2018, 05:03:11 pm »
So, after 10 days off and 7 rounds of golf (breaking the record for Presidential golf outings in just one year), Trump returned to watching Fox News with full gusto.  As identified by the Toronto Star's Daniel Dale, Trump's day consisted of:

Quote
7:48 a.m.: Attacks Justice Dept., Abedin after Fox segment
8:44 a.m.: Tweets to Fox
8:49 a.m.: Tweets about taxes after Fox segment
9:08 a.m.: Talks North Korea after Fox segment
9:13 a.m.: Takes credit for aviation safety after Fox segment
7:49 p.m.: Mocks Kim Jong-un after Fox segment
8:16 p.m.: Urges people to watch Fox show
11:03 p.m.: Live-tweets Fox Business

The "my button is bigger than your button" tweet got a lot of very appropriate attention, i.e. it scared the living shit out of rational people.  But it's important in this context because KJI's statement was almost 2 days prior to Trump's witty rejoinder, meaning he responded to it after seeing the report on Fox, not because he had been briefed on it.  He is getting his intel direct from Fox News and not from the US intelligence services.  More proof is that he claimed China was selling oil to North Korea, not because the CIA told him but because Fox reported it.

Add this to the unhinged, rambling NYT interview over the holidays, and we must be getting close to a 25th amendment remedy.  Right?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1451 on: January 03, 2018, 07:25:03 pm »
I thought he didn't have time to watch TV because documents.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1452 on: January 04, 2018, 04:12:35 pm »
Michael Wolff's salacious book was due out on January 9th.  Trump issued a cease and desist letter, threatening a lawsuit if they didn't stop publication, so the publishers moved up the release to tomorrow.  It shot to #1 on the Amazon best-sellers list.

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Bench

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1453 on: January 04, 2018, 04:37:08 pm »
Michael Wolff's salacious book was due out on January 9th.  Trump issued a cease and desist letter, threatening a lawsuit if they didn't stop publication, so the publishers moved up the release to tomorrow.  It shot to #1 on the Amazon best-sellers list.

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Two really remarkable stories about abuse of power today.  First, Trump cajoled the DOJ into reopening the investigation into Hillary's fucking email server and second the President of the United States is trying to prevent the publication of book that makes him look bad.  This is banana republic shit. 
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MusicMan

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1454 on: January 04, 2018, 04:39:56 pm »
Two really remarkable stories about abuse of power today.  First, Trump cajoled the DOJ into reopening the investigation into Hillary's fucking email server and second the President of the United States is trying to prevent the publication of book that makes him look bad.  This is banana republic shit.

I have never been so certain of anything as I am that Trump will take credit for the record sales of the book whose publication he tried to prevent.


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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1455 on: January 05, 2018, 11:03:16 am »
With everything else going on, I think my favorite moment from the last couple of days is his Wizard of Oz cameo, whereby he projected himself remotely into the press briefing, which is about 50 feet from the desk at which he was sitting.  He is becoming a caricature of his own caricature.

He's also demonstrably mental.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1456 on: January 06, 2018, 08:50:10 am »
I have never been so certain of anything as I am that Trump will take credit for the record sales of the book whose publication he tried to prevent.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1457 on: January 07, 2018, 05:33:12 pm »
Bannon now crawfishing on his comments.  Apologizes, says his comments were not about Trump, but rather about Manafort.  He's essentially groveling at Trump's feet.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1458 on: January 08, 2018, 08:57:15 am »
It's amazing how the shit is flying so fast that you barely have time to process one giant dungheap before the next one comes plopping down.

For example, the fact that Trump is spitting out poorly written tweets about being a stable genius - while also tweeting that his presidency is "consensual" and linking someone's email address instead of a URL, which somewhat undercuts the original tweet - overshadowed the fact that the first referral from Congress to the DoJ for criminal prosecution arising out of the Russia scandal was made on Friday.  Almost a year to the day when the entirety of the US intelligence services agreed that Russia had illegally acted upon our election in favor of Trump, Senate Republicans - and Senate Republicans only, done without even telling Senate Democrats - sent the name Christopher Steele to the DoJ.

Apparently, there's some discrepancy in some of the dates he'd provided to the FBI, and so they want him prosecuted for it.  Ignoring the simple lunacy of the charges - Jared Kushner has been forced to correct his security disclosure about a dozen times and yet still has security clearance - it's clear that they're not even pretending to be doing a proper job any more.  Steele has enough shit to fertilize the Sahara, and Republicans don't want him testifying.  Referring him for prosecution does two things"  (1) it undermines his credibility as a witness should that ever come to pass; and (2) it pressures him into staying out of the U.S. for fear of arrest on trumped up (pun intended) charges (I don't think U.S. courts can compel a foreign citizen to show for an interview but they certainly can arrest him if on U.S. soil).

This is getting off-the-charts scary now.  In addition to the malicious prosecution of Steele, Congress also re-opened investigations into the dead horses of Clinton's emails and the Uranium One deal.  Yes, the United States Federal Government is prosecuting its political enemies.

Trump hasn't even completed one year in office.
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1459 on: January 09, 2018, 02:15:25 pm »
Congressional committees took over 21 hours of testimony from the heads of Fusion GPS, relating to the its commissioning of Trump-Russia dossier.  The chair of the Senate Committee - Chuck Grassley - was asked by a constituent if he'd agree to release the transcript, to which Grassley said he could see no reason why he wouldn't vote to release the transcript.  Fusion GPS, for their part, waived any opportunity to review the transcript and urged the committee to release it asap.  That was all a few months ago now.

Since then, Grassley and his Republican colleagues have both refused to release the transcript while simultaneously making derogatory comments about the testimony therein and, just last week, referring the file's author - Christopher Steele - to the DoJ for prosecution on lying to the FBI (he mixed up some dates, apparently).  The Fusion GPS guys aren't backing down and say they're 100% behind everything in the Steele report (yep, including the watersports) and wrote an op-ed in the (failing) NY Times to that effect and, again, calling for the release of the transcript of their testimony.

Bizarrely, Grassley countered by saying if they want their testimony public, they should come back and testify in open session.  Ummm, why?  They didn't ask for a closed hearing (they clearly wanted it to be open) and the transcript of the closed testimony exists so why the need for an open do-over?

Anyway, today Diane Feinstein had enough of this bollocks and dumped the whole 312 pages on the interwebs for all to see.

The first major revelation I've seen so far is that someone in the Trump campaign - back in mid-2016 - had seen enough of the Russian involvement and made a call into the FBI.  I suspect this testimony will have more smoking guns in it than the toll booth scene in The Godfather.  And now that it's out there, the (dishonest) press can set about validating the contents.

Popcorn, anyone?
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Bench

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1460 on: January 09, 2018, 02:25:52 pm »
Congressional committees took over 21 hours of testimony from the heads of Fusion GPS, relating to the its commissioning of Trump-Russia dossier.  The chair of the Senate Committee - Chuck Grassley - was asked by a constituent if he'd agree to release the transcript, to which Grassley said he could see no reason why he wouldn't vote to release the transcript.  Fusion GPS, for their part, waived any opportunity to review the transcript and urged the committee to release it asap.  That was all a few months ago now.

Since then, Grassley and his Republican colleagues have both refused to release the transcript while simultaneously making derogatory comments about the testimony therein and, just last week, referring the file's author - Christopher Steele - to the DoJ for prosecution on lying to the FBI (he mixed up some dates, apparently).  The Fusion GPS guys aren't backing down and say they're 100% behind everything in the Steele report (yep, including the watersports) and wrote an op-ed in the (failing) NY Times to that effect and, again, calling for the release of the transcript of their testimony.

Bizarrely, Grassley countered by saying if they want their testimony public, they should come back and testify in open session.  Ummm, why?  They didn't ask for a closed hearing (they clearly wanted it to be open) and the transcript of the closed testimony exists so why the need for an open do-over?

Anyway, today Diane Feinstein had enough of this bollocks and dumped the whole 312 pages on the interwebs for all to see.

The first major revelation I've seen so far is that someone in the Trump campaign - back in mid-2016 - had seen enough of the Russian involvement and made a call into the FBI.  I suspect this testimony will have more smoking guns in it than the toll booth scene in The Godfather.  And now that it's out there, the (dishonest) press can set about validating the contents.

Popcorn, anyone?

Simson also said that one person had already been killed in connection with the dossier.

ETA:  Apparently the "walk in informant" was a reference to the Australian diplomat who alerted the FBI after drinks with Papadapalous.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 02:37:58 pm by Bench »
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chuck

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1461 on: January 09, 2018, 02:48:47 pm »
Fuck that corn fed fuckwit and his little fop friend.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1462 on: January 09, 2018, 03:41:26 pm »
It appears that the major "revelation" is simply that the dossier didn't start the investigation.  In some respects, this isn't much of a reveal, but it makes you wonder why the republicans were so bent on keeping this covered up.  I was sort of assuming that the reveal would be more support for the dossier, but it appears that it simply undercuts the lame republican narrative that the investigation sprung from poisonous fruit. 

So Grassley and all the pricks spent this much capital and credibility just to prop up a convoluted lie that they figured would be a workable defense of Trump?  They really assumed no one would make it public?  Just shows their hubris in that they really think the USA is some authoritarian state where their fiction will become reality.  Pretty pathetic. 

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1463 on: January 09, 2018, 03:58:24 pm »
It appears that the major "revelation" is simply that the dossier didn't start the investigation.  In some respects, this isn't much of a reveal, but it makes you wonder why the republicans were so bent on keeping this covered up.  I was sort of assuming that the reveal would be more support for the dossier, but it appears that it simply undercuts the lame republican narrative that the investigation sprung from poisonous fruit. 

So Grassley and all the pricks spent this much capital and credibility just to prop up a convoluted lie that they figured would be a workable defense of Trump?  They really assumed no one would make it public?  Just shows their hubris in that they really think the USA is some authoritarian state where their fiction will become reality.  Pretty pathetic.


Right now, the entire Republican Party is working to protect it's Dear Leader.  For example, the FBI and DOJ cratered to Nunez and agreed to hand over all materials related to the Mueller investigation - mid-investigation!  This doesn't ever happen because such things tend to derail investigations, which is exactly what the DOJ was told, yet they did it anyway.  Nunez is a Trump-puppet, so Mueller will now be playing poker with all his cards face up.

I can only think that their trying to keep this lid closed until after the 2018 mid-terms.  If they can survive 2018 with majorities intact, maybe they think they will all get to scoot; Trump included.  I can only hope that this will damn the lot of them.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1464 on: January 09, 2018, 04:07:11 pm »
Simson also said that one person had already been killed in connection with the dossier.

Was that the bag-over-the-head guy?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1465 on: January 09, 2018, 04:09:12 pm »

Right now, the entire Republican Party is working to protect it's Dear Leader.  For example, the FBI and DOJ cratered to Nunez and agreed to hand over all materials related to the Mueller investigation - mid-investigation!  This doesn't ever happen because such things tend to derail investigations, which is exactly what the DOJ was told, yet they did it anyway.  Nunez is a Trump-puppet, so Mueller will now be playing poker with all his cards face up.

I can only think that their trying to keep this lid closed until after the 2018 mid-terms.  If they can survive 2018 with majorities intact, maybe they think they will all get to scoot; Trump included.  I can only hope that this will damn the lot of them.

Better than even odds that people like Nunez are either complicit in the crime, thus protecting their own ass, or compromised by something Trump or Putin knows.  It's no coincidence that Roy Cohn is a Trump hero and provided an ideal on how to operate in the circle of power.

No guarantee, but I'm optimistic that many things will come to light, and that a lot of Republicans will eventually realize that continually doubling down on a three-legged horse was a very bad bet.  Most of the loudest supporters will be out of office and disgraced.

Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1466 on: January 10, 2018, 08:38:49 am »
CNN is reporting that National Security Adviser McMaster and - perhaps more notably - White House Legal Counsel McGahn (the lawyer who famously hired lawyers) are leaving the administration adding two more names to the long, long, loooooong list of senior White House staff who didn't make it to Trump's first anniversary.  The McGahn thing is interesting, because he may have realized the extent of the peril he is in hanging around the Trumps as they grift their way through a Presidency.  McMaster will be the second NSA Trump has lost.

Also, from CNN, Gen. Kelly has been organizing a loyalty pledge drive with White House staff, getting them to promise to stay on at least through the mid-terms.  With a significant number of vacancies unfilled in the administration - with the list growing daily, it seems - perhaps they are realizing that somebody need to be doing something other than enjoying "Executive Time" in the White House.

The schadenfreude of watching Trump and all the best people flail and disintegrate is tempered, of course, with the terror of an unsupervised Trump in office.

My analogy to Star Wars (of which I am very proud so I'll bring it up again) becomes more and more apt every day.  Trump will bring balance to U.S. politics in the same way the Anakin Skywalker brought balance to the Force.  The latest star of conservative politics to get picked up and lobbed down a bottomless stairwell is Steve Bannon.  Trump is torching everyone around him and his toxicity is spreading.  Now the likes of Grassley and Graham have been shown to be craven sycophants, suppressing testimony expressly to protect a White House lie.

This will not end well for any of them.
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1467 on: January 10, 2018, 10:31:12 am »
Fuck that corn fed fuckwit and his little fop friend.


BTW, your mate Issa isn't running for re-election.  Add him to the long list of prominent Republicans who are quitting rather than getting smoked in November.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1468 on: January 10, 2018, 10:34:44 am »
Add him to the long list of prominent Republicans who are quitting rather than getting smoked in November.

Careful with the "smoked" talk.  2 years ago you were laughing at the idea that any Republican would beat Hillary.  That kind of talk leads to arrogance which diminishes voter passion.
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chuck

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1469 on: January 10, 2018, 10:47:12 am »
BTW, your mate Issa isn't running for re-election.  Add him to the long list of prominent Republicans who are quitting rather than getting smoked in November.

The clear winner in this scenario is Gohmert.
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1470 on: January 10, 2018, 11:07:38 am »
Careful with the "smoked" talk.  2 years ago you were laughing at the idea that any Republican would beat Hillary.  That kind of talk leads to arrogance which diminishes voter passion.

I don't think that was me.  I thought nominating Clinton was a big mistake because it was handing Republicans a hymn sheet of attack lines with which they were already very familiar.

I do hear you about getting complacent about November, though.  Enthusiasm seems to be off the charts, however, notably with there being an unpresidented (sic) number of first-time candidates running for House seats, almost entirely on the Democratic side.  Maddow had a short segment on this last month, and it's worth a quick look.  The "Red Wave" in 2010 followed a jump in new candidates on the Republican side - 78 up from 49 in the previous cycle - compared to a falling number of Democrats - 40 vs. 57 from the previous cycle.  That Republican enthusiasm translated into a game-changing wipeout for Democrats in 2010.

Fast-forward to 2017, and new Republican registrants remains constant from the prior cycle - 28.   On the Democratic side, though, the 44 new candidates they got in the prior cycle has been blown away - 209 new candidates for the 2018 midterms.  It was a glut of good candidates that saw the Republican majority in the Virginia House of Delegates all-but erased - it only surviving by one delegate and that was achieved only by dint of lawsuits and the luck of the draw.  Gone are the days when Republicans ran unopposed in House districts -they'll be facing Democratic challengers and an angry electorate.

I'm not complacent; I'm amped.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1471 on: January 10, 2018, 11:29:36 am »
I don't think that was me.  I thought nominating Clinton was a big mistake because it was handing Republicans a hymn sheet of attack lines with which they were already very familiar.

I do hear you about getting complacent about November, though.  Enthusiasm seems to be off the charts, however, notably with there being an unpresidented (sic) number of first-time candidates running for House seats, almost entirely on the Democratic side.  Maddow had a short segment on this last month, and it's worth a quick look.  The "Red Wave" in 2010 followed a jump in new candidates on the Republican side - 78 up from 49 in the previous cycle - compared to a falling number of Democrats - 40 vs. 57 from the previous cycle.  That Republican enthusiasm translated into a game-changing wipeout for Democrats in 2010.

Fast-forward to 2017, and new Republican registrants remains constant from the prior cycle - 28.   On the Democratic side, though, the 44 new candidates they got in the prior cycle has been blown away - 209 new candidates for the 2018 midterms.  It was a glut of good candidates that saw the Republican majority in the Virginia House of Delegates all-but erased - it only surviving by one delegate and that was achieved only by dint of lawsuits and the luck of the draw.  Gone are the days when Republicans ran unopposed in House districts -they'll be facing Democratic challengers and an angry electorate.

I'm not complacent; I'm amped.

Right.  The you wasn't Limey specific.  More dems/lefts in general.

It's typical that mid-term elections go against the party in the White House.  Not always as big a swing as 10 though.
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1472 on: January 10, 2018, 11:35:15 am »
Right.  The you wasn't Limey specific.  More dems/lefts in general.

It's typical that mid-term elections go against the party in the White House.  Not always as big a swing as 10 though.

Looking at the special elections that have occurred since 2016's general, the swing to Democrats - even in races they lost (because of a seemingly unassailable Republican advantage) - has been massive, and far greater than the swing to the right in 2010.  It's averaging about 20 points.  If that holds in November, it will be a bloodbath of historic proportions.  The swing to Republicans in 2010 was 9%.

As another aside, Devin Nunes is one of 7 California Republicans from districts that Clinton won in 2016...
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1473 on: January 10, 2018, 11:36:35 am »
Looking at the special elections that have occurred since 2016's general, the swing to Democrats - even in races they lost (because of a seemingly unassailable Republican advantage) - has been massive, and far greater than the swing to the right in 2010.  It's averaging about 20 points.  If that holds in November, it will be a bloodbath of historic proportions.  The swing to Republicans in 2010 was 9%.

As another aside, Devin Nunes is one of 7 California Republicans from districts that Clinton won in 2016...

Because of November 2016 I'm ignoring all polls.
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1474 on: January 10, 2018, 02:55:32 pm »
Because of November 2016 I'm ignoring all polls.

These are actual votes in elections for national office.  Trump likes to tout that Republicans are 5-0 in special elections - which isn't true, of course, because they're 5-2 - but this hides the underlying truth: in these elections, and also the elections for state office in New Jersey and Virginia, the swing to Democrats has been huge.  Republicans won 5 special elections because they happened to be in ultra-conservative districts where their majority was such that they could withstand such a swing and still prevail.

So these aren't opinion polls, they're actual polls.  Moreover, they're actual polls that are one-offs where turnout is usually even worse than off-year mid-terms.  If Republicans are getting overrun by Democratic turnout in these elections, it sets up very nicely for the full-on vote in November.

FYI, the link above to fivethirtyeight.com has the average swing to Democrats at 16%, not the 20% I said (but still pretty handsome).  The swing to Republicans in 2010 was 7%.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 02:59:58 pm by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1475 on: January 15, 2018, 10:58:02 am »
Every day, the Trump administration coughs up a scandal that would bring down most administrations, all the while enduring the worst scandal any administration has ever had: Russia.  But while Mueller is in place and doing his thing, I think it's worth focusing on the cadre of enablers and excusers for this President: Congressional Republicans.

This weekend, numerous Republicans were on TV attempting to normalize racism.  The whole porn star pay-off scandal didn't even merit a mention, there was no room to discuss his blatant lies about his rationale for cancelling his visit to the UK, while the Hawaii mess - where we learned that the DHS has no plan to respond to a missile attack and Trump thought it appropriate to finish his round of golf rather than deal with a potentially catastrophic error - was shrugged off.  Where are the strong on defense, family values Republicans on all of this?  Trying to blame Clinton for Haiti and something something...emails.

Rand Paul, for example, presumably wanting attention after being upset that no one gave a shit that he was quite ill after getting beaten up by a neighbor, claimed that immigrants don't want to work and have to be forced to do so.  Ryan condemned the President in the weakest terms possible - which is terrifying given that he's third in line to the Oval Office.  Cotton and Perdue - who where in the room when shitholes were being discussed - say that they didn't hear what the President said but that Durbin is lying.  This makes no sense (how can they deny what Durbin heard when they were both suffering from temporary deafness) even before you realize that they are ignoring Lyndsey Graham who said that he "said his piece" to the President at the time and will discuss it no further.

What a disgusting bunch of tools.

DHS Secretary - the very Normegian-looking Kirstjen Nielsen - was also in the room when Trump was insulting almost half the countries in the world (and the entire African-American population of the U.S.), and she too suffered from the same temporary deafness that addled Sens Cotton and Perdue.  It seems impossible that the moment could have gone unnoticed given that both Sens Durbin and Graham claim to have dressed down the President at the time.  It would be a moment in a meeting that would stand out, you'd think.  Well, Nielsen's hearing / memory is going to be put on the spot as she's due to give testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee this week; the ranking member of that committee is one Sen. Dick Durbin.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 11:00:01 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1476 on: January 15, 2018, 02:22:42 pm »
If you thought that 2018 has been exhausting already, you're not alone.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1477 on: January 18, 2018, 02:13:57 pm »
My analogy to Star Wars (of which I am very proud so I'll bring it up again) becomes more and more apt every day.  Trump will bring balance to U.S. politics in the same way the Anakin Skywalker brought balance to the Force.  The latest star of conservative politics to get picked up and lobbed down a bottomless stairwell is Steve Bannon.  Trump is torching everyone around him and his toxicity is spreading.  Now the likes of Grassley and Graham have been shown to be craven sycophants, suppressing testimony expressly to protect a White House lie.

This will not end well for any of them.


The NRA may have been laundering illegal campaign contributions from Russians to the Trump campaign.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 02:15:56 pm by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1478 on: January 23, 2018, 09:31:10 am »
The NRA may have been laundering illegal campaign contributions from Russians to the Trump campaign.

A complaint has been filed with the FEC that the hush-money payment to Stormy Daniels violates Federal Election laws as it was a benefit in kind to the Trump campaign which was not declared.

The real story here has always been the source of the money for the payment, made by Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen through a Delaware  LLC established solely for this one purpose.  Trump has a history of using his charity vehicle to pay his personal bills - including settling lawsuits - so it would be very much in character for him to direct campaign funds to pay off his one-time side piece.

Interestingly though, the FEC complaint claims that the source of the funds doesn't matter.  The complaint is that the pay-off was of benefit to the campaign so - even if Trump ponied up himself - it's still a violation of campaign finance laws.  This smacks strongly of fishing to find the source of the money, which is a good idea because there's no way Trump paid this himself. 

In related news, the Trump campaign still has not accounted for how they distributed the $107 million it raised for Trump's inauguration.  The money is not treated the same as campaign contributions - it's basically a gift - so they can spend it pretty much how they want.  However, what they can't do is simply trouser it, because that has tax implications for whomever gets the money, so they are required to say where it all ended up.

That $107 million was literally double the amount raised by Obama for his first inauguration, and that party was off the hook - awash with A-List stars.  Obama raised about $50 million, spent about $25 million - the most expensive inauguration to date - and donated the remainder to charities.  Trump's headline acts were some Irish dancers, some baton twirlers and Three Doors Down.  Also, he had only 3 balls compared to Obama's 8 (also Trump's were smaller etc. etc.).  So there's no way there wasn't, oh, about $100 million left over.

Where is it?  They aren't saying.  And those who should make them say, aren't.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1479 on: January 23, 2018, 09:52:52 am »
In other news, Jeff Sessions took time off - from pressuring FBI Director Wray to fire FBI Deputy Director McCabe - to go and have a chat with Robert Mueller.  For a few hours.

Given his struggles with the truth during Senate testimony, I'm sure it went well.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1480 on: January 23, 2018, 10:20:26 am »
A complaint has been filed with the FEC that the hush-money payment to Stormy Daniels violates Federal Election laws as it was a benefit in kind to the Trump campaign which was not declared.

The real story here has always been the source of the money for the payment, made by Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen through a Delaware  LLC established solely for this one purpose.  Trump has a history of using his charity vehicle to pay his personal bills - including settling lawsuits - so it would be very much in character for him to direct campaign funds to pay off his one-time side piece.

Interestingly though, the FEC complaint claims that the source of the funds doesn't matter.  The complaint is that the pay-off was of benefit to the campaign so - even if Trump ponied up himself - it's still a violation of campaign finance laws.  This smacks strongly of fishing to find the source of the money, which is a good idea because there's no way Trump paid this himself. 



Here you go:

 President Trump is accused of paying $130,000 in hush money to porn star Stormy Daniels to hide an affair a month before the election. In what is probably just a coincidence, the Trump campaign transferred $130K to the Trump businesses a month after the election.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1481 on: January 23, 2018, 10:32:05 am »
Here you go:

 President Trump is accused of paying $130,000 in hush money to porn star Stormy Daniels to hide an affair a month before the election. In what is probably just a coincidence, the Trump campaign transferred $130K to the Trump businesses a month after the election.

For all the randomness of the man, he is actually quite predictable:  just think of the dumbest, most obvious, self-enriching thing he could do...and that's what he did.  #StupidWatergate
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1482 on: January 23, 2018, 10:38:37 am »
For all the randomness of the man, he is actually quite predictable:  just think of the dumbest, most obvious, self-enriching thing he could do...and that's what he did.  #StupidWatergate

The most galling aspect of his myriad ethical abuses is that they are entirely obvious but the GOP congress will not uphold their part of the separation of powers bargain struck in the Constitution. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1483 on: January 23, 2018, 10:43:21 am »
Here you go:

 President Trump is accused of paying $130,000 in hush money to porn star Stormy Daniels to hide an affair a month before the election. In what is probably just a coincidence, the Trump campaign transferred $130K to the Trump businesses a month after the election.

There's a broader picture here too:  the fact that Trump is so easily compromised and so willing to break laws to save his skin, it's impossible to think that the Russians don't have his tiny orange balls in a vice.  He's basically proving the naughty bits of the Steele Dossier all on his own.

He'll fuck anything that moves (even raw-dogging with a porn star which has to be terrifying for Melania from back when they used to have sex) and he'll pay up when someone threatens to spill the beans.  He paid off Daniels, he had his buddy at the National Enquirer "catch and kill" the story of another affair involving a Playboy model, and he has Jessica Drake in an NDA following her accusation of sexual assault against him.

His was overheard being offered hookers in Russia, and his bodyguard claimed to have fended them off and then remained outside Trump's room for a couple of hours to make sure they didn't come back.  Sure...right!  Or to make sure they left once Trump was done.  The Russians are experts at this, and Trump is a grotesque pig of a man.  I have no doubt that he walked into their honey trap with his flies wide open, and they've been yanking him around ever since.

Well that, plus the hundreds of millions of dollars they've laundered through his properties over the years.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1484 on: January 23, 2018, 02:13:28 pm »
Because the President and First Lady - whoever they are - essentially are America's royal family, it's hard to ignore the personal drama playing out alongside the political one.  The confluence of the anniversary of their first year in office, their 13th wedding anniversary, the planned trip to the economic summit in Davos and the Stormy Daniels revelations are hard to ignore.

As I mentioned above [Gross Mental Image Alert] Trump raw-dogged it with a porn star, for about a year, right after he and Melania got married and she bore his son.  That's just horrendous news on so many levels.  I have limited sympathy for Melania - she admitted to marrying him for money and he wasn't exactly an unknown quantity when she met him - but even still that's pretty cold, cruel, callous and dangerous behavior on his part.

So, how are things going?  They spent their 13th wedding anniversary apart - he was stuck in Washington, hiding under his bed while the slightly more grown-up folks there tried to re-open the government.  But she celebrated their political anniversary by tweeting a photo of herself - not with Donald but with a square-jawed Marine (who looked like he was actually 6' 3", 239lbs).  Her tweet didn't even mention Donald.  They have not been seen together in public recently, and she just announced that she's not now going to be joining him on the Davos trip.

Trump doesn't read, so I doubt he's read the legend of Icarus.  It's too late for him to do so now.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1485 on: January 23, 2018, 04:25:00 pm »
Melania being pissed at him is the least of his problems.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1486 on: January 23, 2018, 04:33:08 pm »
Melania being pissed at him is the least of his problems.

In the movies, she’d roll on him to Mueller in retribution. But this is all crazier than any movie.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1487 on: January 24, 2018, 08:54:13 am »
Melania being pissed at him is the least of his problems.

I suspect she knows a lot...
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1488 on: January 24, 2018, 09:43:34 am »
I suspect she knows a lot...

I suspect she doesn't. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1489 on: January 24, 2018, 06:42:29 pm »
I suspect she doesn't.

Michelle knows a lot, therefore Melania knows a lot.  QED.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1490 on: January 24, 2018, 08:10:21 pm »
Michelle knows a lot, therefore Melania knows a lot.  QED.

Clearly they're similar power couples.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1491 on: January 24, 2018, 08:56:53 pm »
Melania knows she should have negotiated a better prenup.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1492 on: January 24, 2018, 11:05:03 pm »
Melania knows she should have negotiated a better prenup.

She should also know that his subcontractors often have a hard time getting paid.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1493 on: January 25, 2018, 09:45:10 am »
She should also know that his subcontractors often have a hard time getting paid.
Apparently all you need is a story to tell, in order to get paid.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1494 on: January 25, 2018, 06:32:54 pm »
Melania knows she should have negotiated a better prenup.

The book and movie deals will leave her and Barron set for life...
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1495 on: January 26, 2018, 11:17:01 am »
Melania skipped traveling to Davos with Donald in order to do something less depressing, apparently.  She visited the Holocaust Museum.

In other news, the right-wing freakout about the FBI's secret society is absolutely hilarious as every single element of it was completely debunked in a matter of a day or two.  It was a single text out of 50,000, which was in jest, there were no meetings, no other texts about meetings and no "deleted" texts because they were lost temporarily - not deleted - when about 3500 agents switched from iPhone to Android (or the other way around) and those messages have all since been recovered.

Hannity had to switch from stoking this particular fire to a car chase video because the whole thing was crumbling around him as he poked.  Literally, "Hey!  Squirrel!"  But therein lies the rub.  The story was out there, being signal-boosted by the right-wing media and the likes of Senate Homeland Committee Chairman Ron Johnson, who claimed to have seen classified information that added credence to the burgeoning scandal, but which of course did not...could not...have existed.  Now it's a complete non-story, and Fox et al are just letting it drop.  No retraction, no mea culpa, no correction.  Johnson has walked back his bullshit, but that too goes unreported on right-wing media.

So now we can add this to the ever-lengthening list of "Zombie Lies", that are completely false but will live forever in the hearts and minds of Republicans everywhere and be impossible to kill.  They know it to be true because they've never been told anything to the contrary.  Also, Hannity et al will dig this up again in the future once it's had time to fester and become weaponized.  Like kimchi.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1496 on: January 26, 2018, 05:02:51 pm »
Why won't the Democrats release the memo??? RELEASE THE MEMO!!!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1497 on: January 27, 2018, 12:08:32 am »
how about this, the “memo” gets released along with Trump’s tax returns.  You game you fucking republican pussies?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1498 on: January 27, 2018, 12:08:59 am »
Narrator: They aren’t game


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #1499 on: January 29, 2018, 11:51:59 am »
I'm tired of hearing the press talk about the "memo."  Calling it a memo is misleading as it implies it is a FBI memo.  It's not a memo, but a Devin Nunes talking point.  So stop being so fucking lazy and getting spoonfed by the Republicans, and start clamoring about whether Nunes will release his talking point.

Besides, it appears that his talking point is in essence that Carter Page's apparently damning conversation(s) are tainted because the FISA warrant shouldn't have been issued.  In other words, "The dead body you found in the trunk can't be used in court, cause the driver didn't really cross the yellow line."  This is the argument that they have been reduced to? 

Many Americans will want to know about the dead body, and how it got there.