Author Topic: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016  (Read 17657 times)

Mr. Happy

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Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« on: September 20, 2016, 05:38:54 pm »
Your lineups for tonight's late show:

Astros

RFGeorge Springer (R)
3BY. Gurriel (R)
2BJose Altuve (R)
SSCarlos Correa (R)
CEvan Gattis (R)
1BMarwin Gonzalez (S)
DHTyler White (R)
LFT. Hernandez (R)
CFJake Marisnick (R)

HOU: Joe Musgrove (R)  (3-4, 4.71)

Athletics

2B Joe Wendle (L)
SS Marcus Semien (R)
C Stephen Vogt (L)
RF Danny Valencia (R)
3B Ryon Healy (R)
1B Yonder Alonso (L)
CF Brett Eibner (R)
DH Renato Nunez (R)
LF Jake Smolinski (R)

OAK: Sean Manaea (L)  (6-9, 4.23)
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 06:59:39 pm by Mr. Happy »
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juliogotay

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2016, 05:41:50 pm »
IIRC Manea has been pretty tough against our side this year.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2016, 06:26:44 pm »
Your lineups for tonight's late show:

Astros

RFGeorge Springer (R)
3BY. Gurriel (R)
2BJose Altuve (R)
SSCarlos Correa (R)
CEvan Gattis (R)
1BMarwin Gonzalez (S)
DHTyler White (R)
LFT. Hernandez (R)
CFJake Marisnick (R)

HOU: Joe Musgrove (R)  (3-4, 4.71)

Athletics

2B Joe Wendle (L)
SS Marcus Semien (R)
C Stephen Vogt (L)
LF Khris Davis (R)
3B Ryon Healy (R)
1B Yonder Alonso (L)
CF Brett Eibner (R)
DH Renato Nunez (R)
RF Jake Smolinski (R)

OAK: Sean Manaea (L)  (6-9, 4.23)
Davis was scratched with an illness. Valencia in right, Smolinski to left.

Mr. Happy

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2016, 07:00:02 pm »
Davis was scratched with an illness. Valencia in right, Smolinski to left.

Fixed. Thanks.
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2016, 09:26:34 pm »
IIRC Manea has been pretty tough against our side this year.

I think Blum mentioned that Correa, Springer, and Altuve are a combined 1 for 20 against him.


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HudsonHawk

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2016, 09:41:07 pm »
So what the fuck are all those people waiting on?
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2016, 09:44:33 pm »
Teoscar with real boneheaded move on the base paths.


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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2016, 09:44:58 pm »
I don't really understand batting average on first pitch.  A pitcher can't get a K on the first pitch, so the denominator, I assume, is the number of times the first pitch is hit and the numerator is the number of hits.

So, say the pitcher #1 has thrown 100 first pitches, 90 of which are strikes, 10 are put in play and 3 are hits. He has a 300 average on the first pitch.

Pitcher #2 has thrown 100 first pitches, 90 of which are balls, 10 are put in play and 3 are hits.  Again, a 300 average on the first pitch.

Pitcher #3 has thrown 100 first pitches, all of which are hit, 30 for hits.  Again, a 300 average on the first pitch.

These pitchers are not similar at all with their first pitch.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2016, 09:47:09 pm »
Teoscar with real boneheaded move on the base paths.


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He gets away with it, but that's just being a dipshit.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2016, 09:48:07 pm »
A's now playing this game under protest.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2016, 09:49:36 pm »
He gets away with it, but that's just being a dipshit.
It is dumb in that there was no need, but he was simply reacting to the ump's call. 

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2016, 09:51:35 pm »
It is dumb in that there was no need, but he was simply reacting to the ump's call.

And it was still a really stupid move, one you're taught since Little League not to make, one the first base coach was yelling at him not to make. There is no way to spin that.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2016, 09:52:18 pm »
A's now playing this game under protest.

I don't understand how Teo was not given out, it seemed more obvious than Jake being called out?
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2016, 09:55:05 pm »
And it was still a really stupid move, one you're taught since Little League not to make, one the first base coach was yelling at him not to make. There is no way to spin that.

Really?  So, if Marisnick clearly makes it safely to first, and it is called as such by the ump, is it stupid for Hernandez to get off the base?  An ump's call means something.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2016, 09:56:52 pm »
I don't understand how Teo was not given out, it seemed more obvious than Jake being called out?

The argument is that the call on Marisnick influenced Teo. When that call was ruled incorrect, they had to put Teo back where he was. You can't give the A's a double play because of an overturned call.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2016, 09:57:33 pm »
Really?  So, if Marisnick clearly makes it safely to first, and it is called as such by the ump, is it stupid for Hernandez to get off the base?  An ump's call means something.

Yes. It's incredibly stupid.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2016, 09:58:59 pm »
Yes. It's incredibly stupid.
Yeah, the more I think of it, and I hate to say it, but you are correct.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2016, 09:59:54 pm »
Altuve has scalded two balls tonight with nothing to show for it. I'm starting to wonder if he's going to get to 200.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2016, 10:00:23 pm »
Yeah, the more I think of it, and I hate to say it, but you are correct.

That's what everybody says.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2016, 10:01:15 pm »
A's now playing this game under protest.

Radio guys saying it is still being played under protest...  There was no score so what would be the basis for a protest?
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2016, 10:01:50 pm »
Rollie Fingers back at it again with the safari hat. Maybe in the later innings he'll don a trilby.
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HudsonHawk

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2016, 10:07:13 pm »
Radio guys saying it is still being played under protest...  There was no score so what would be the basis for a protest?

Rule applied incorrectly. Doesn't matter what the score is. Of course, they'll lose the protest.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2016, 10:08:03 pm »
Rollie Fingers back at it again with the safari hat. Maybe in the later innings he'll don a trilby.

I can't believe he doesn't wear a boater.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2016, 10:15:11 pm »
I can't believe he doesn't wear a boater.

I'm sure he does but at the moment a boater is not seasonally appropriate.
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2016, 10:16:48 pm »
Rule applied incorrectly. Doesn't matter what the score is. Of course, they'll lose the protest.

Did they protest strenuously?
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2016, 10:24:40 pm »
I'm sure he does but at the moment a boater is not seasonally appropriate.

I suppose today is the day to switch to felt. In that case, a homburg would be the  cold weather equivalent. Quite formal for the ball yard.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2016, 10:28:31 pm »
Did they protest strenuously?

They did, those A's, in their "faggoty-ass whites."

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2016, 10:38:27 pm »
And there goes Musgrove's no-no...lost it on the shift. Of course.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2016, 10:40:46 pm »
Another routine nubber ends up a hit due to the shift.
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2016, 10:44:14 pm »
And now Musgrove pitching his ass off but ground control insists on fucking him over. So he's out with the bases juiced and one out. Devenski in.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2016, 10:44:53 pm »
I believe these are exactly the circumstances under which Musgrove left his last start against the A's.

Hope Devenski handles this as well as Gregerson did.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2016, 10:49:00 pm »
Fuck!  Stop moving all the fucking infielders out of the fucking way!!!
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2016, 10:49:09 pm »
Food for thought: does or should a manager have an obligation to his team's fans to go kick dirt on a home plate umpire with a Jackson Pollack strike zone?

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2016, 10:51:07 pm »
Food for thought: does or should a manager have an obligation to his team's fans to go kick dirt on a home plate umpire with a Jackson Pollack strike zone?

No, but a pitcher should have free range to beat the living shit out of the manager for making him have to get five fucking routine groundball outs an inning.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2016, 10:52:17 pm »
Oh, were you annoyed by that? I couldn't tell.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2016, 10:52:50 pm »
A's hit five easy routine ground balls, but get a run. Lead 1-0.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2016, 10:52:56 pm »
No, but a pitcher should have free range to beat the living shit out of the manager for making him have to get five fucking routine groundball outs an inning.

Are you referring to the shift that has saved the Astros 20 runs this year to lead the league?

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2016, 10:53:49 pm »
Oh, were you annoyed by that? I couldn't tell.

It's just you're fighting for a playoff spot and you continue to fuck yourself in the ass.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2016, 10:54:57 pm »
Are you referring to the shift that has saved the Astros 20 runs this year to lead the league?

No, I'm referring to the shift that has cost them at least three games that I know of, and cost them the lead in this one.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2016, 10:56:32 pm »
A's get an out on a hard hit ball because got some inexplicable reason the second baseman wasn't playing in left field.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2016, 10:57:21 pm »
No, I'm referring to the shift that has cost them at least three games that I know of, and cost them the lead in this one.

Oh, that shift.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #41 on: September 20, 2016, 11:00:02 pm »
Kemp with a double off the pitcher's glove to plate the tying run.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #42 on: September 20, 2016, 11:01:05 pm »
A's get an out on a hard hit ball because got some inexplicable reason the second baseman wasn't playing in left field.

That was Marwin hitting lefty. Had the A's been shifting it'd have been a routine grounder. (Kemp!) Much for that reason, my beef with the shift is mostly aesthetic. It is unbeautiful. Ditto the yawning acceptance of egregious quantities of strike-outs. Modern baseball is unbeautiful.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #43 on: September 20, 2016, 11:14:05 pm »
That was Marwin hitting lefty. Had the A's been shifting it'd have been a routine grounder. (Kemp!) Much for that reason, my beef with the shift is mostly aesthetic. It is unbeautiful. Ditto the yawning acceptance of egregious quantities of strike-outs. Modern baseball is unbeautiful.

I have had the same thoughts about the shift. It doesn't look like Baseball. I wish they would outlaw it. Unless they do it will only increase.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #44 on: September 20, 2016, 11:18:46 pm »
Devo is a weapon. So good.
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #45 on: September 20, 2016, 11:21:20 pm »
Keep raking, Jose.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #46 on: September 20, 2016, 11:24:31 pm »
Jeez, Correa, did you forget you brought a bat to the plate?
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2016, 11:26:00 pm »
I have had the same thoughts about the shift. It doesn't look like Baseball. I wish they would outlaw it. Unless they do it will only increase.

I don't want it outlawed, I just want the Astros to stop using it on every fucking two-bit Punch and Judy hitter out there.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #48 on: September 20, 2016, 11:35:49 pm »
I don't want it outlawed, I just want the Astros to stop using it on every fucking two-bit Punch and Judy hitter out there.
I thought it was interesting in that Cubs series they showed the stats on the shift and it said the Cubs use it the least in the MLB and the Astros use it the most by a huge number.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #49 on: September 20, 2016, 11:43:15 pm »
Does he not pitch?
He is Devo.
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #50 on: September 20, 2016, 11:43:27 pm »
Astros should be celebrating a win and a no-hitter right now. But we get extra innings on the road. Fucking shift.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #51 on: September 20, 2016, 11:47:11 pm »
Double by Kemp, Jake sacrifices him to 3B. Go ahead run at 3B with one out for top of the order
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #52 on: September 20, 2016, 11:48:43 pm »
Way to wake up Springer.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #53 on: September 20, 2016, 11:48:45 pm »
Springer with a single past the drawn in infield...Astros grab a 2-1 lead in the 10th.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 11:50:49 pm by HudsonHawk »
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #54 on: September 20, 2016, 11:50:27 pm »
Altuve continuing to roll over on everything. But...2-1 Astros. Giles will try to close it out.
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #55 on: September 20, 2016, 11:51:02 pm »
I thought it was interesting in that Cubs series they showed the stats on the shift and it said the Cubs use it the least in the MLB and the Astros use it the most by a huge number.

that does not jive with these numbers from Bill James. Cubs with the 2nd most Runs Saved in the NL with the shift. Somebody is wrong. http://www.crawfishboxes.com/2016/9/15/12924406/astros-pitchers-helped-by-elite-defense
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 11:54:14 pm by juliogotay »

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #56 on: September 20, 2016, 11:57:02 pm »
that does not jive with these numbers from Bill James. Cubs with the 2nd most Runs Saved in the NL with the shift. Somebody is wrong. http://www.crawfishboxes.com/2016/9/15/12924406/astros-pitchers-helped-by-elite-defense

They have 10 runs saved by the shift. That's not even the most on that list of two teams.
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #57 on: September 20, 2016, 11:57:35 pm »
And here we go...walk and a single...winning run on base.
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #58 on: September 21, 2016, 12:00:28 am »
And another walk loads the bases with one out.
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #59 on: September 21, 2016, 12:01:02 am »
Oh for Fuck's sakes, Giles.
He breezed him, one more time!

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #60 on: September 21, 2016, 12:02:40 am »
In the end it;s this offense that's killing us. There's no reason they should even be in this situation.
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #61 on: September 21, 2016, 12:05:19 am »
Two outs.
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #62 on: September 21, 2016, 12:08:45 am »
Ponche!! 

Astros win 2-1 in 10
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #63 on: September 21, 2016, 12:09:21 am »
High blood pressure medication anyone?

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #64 on: September 21, 2016, 12:09:50 am »
Piece of cake.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #65 on: September 21, 2016, 12:10:29 am »
Well, that was a lot more nerve wracking than it needed to be...  nice to win though.
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #66 on: September 21, 2016, 12:11:25 am »
Tony Kemp comes in as a pinch hitter and ends up the player of the game. Game tying RBI double, then a lead off double and scored the winning run in the 10th.
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #67 on: September 21, 2016, 12:12:13 am »
High blood pressure medication anyone?

Don't believe in it, I relieve hypertension by yelling at the TV.
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #68 on: September 21, 2016, 12:12:23 am »
Tony Kemp comes in as a pinch hitter and ends up the player of the game. Game tying RBI double, then a lead off double and scored the winning run in the 10th.

Clutch Kemp!
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #69 on: September 21, 2016, 12:13:09 am »
Tony Kemp comes in as a pinch hitter and ends up the player of the game. Game tying RBI double, then a lead off double and scored the winning run in the 10th.
That was a nice swing! I was thinking he had a three bagger off the bat.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #70 on: September 21, 2016, 03:07:47 am »
High blood pressure medication anyone?

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #71 on: September 21, 2016, 06:55:37 am »
That was Marwin hitting lefty. Had the A's been shifting it'd have been a routine grounder. (Kemp!) Much for that reason, my beef with the shift is mostly aesthetic. It is unbeautiful. Ditto the yawning acceptance of egregious quantities of strike-outs. Modern baseball is unbeautiful.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #72 on: September 21, 2016, 08:16:00 am »
In the end it;s this offense that's killing us. There's no reason they should even be in this situation.

The batters are worn out from all the walking back and forth to shift in the field.


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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #73 on: September 21, 2016, 08:34:02 am »
If you were a pitcher, you would not think strikeouts are unbeautiful.

I'm sure you're right. But when nine Astros strike out every day, the K has lost some of its currency.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #74 on: September 21, 2016, 08:38:10 am »
I generally am in favor of the shift, but I am not a proponent of shifting against marginal hitters and then pitching to the weakness in the defense (e.g. throwing an outside fastball when the traditional 2B fielding area is unoccupied). In the early shift era when it primarily deployed against only the best hitters in the league, that was less of an issue because the calculus involved making a guy like Bonds consider changing his approach and taking a single through a hole instead of hitting the ball 500 ft.  The Smolinski at bat last night was the shift at its worst. The Astros left a gaping hole on the right side and Musgrove worked away. If I'm a weak hitter facing a guy with a no hitter and the right side is open, I'm looking for anything on the outer half shoot through the right side.


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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #75 on: September 21, 2016, 08:53:23 am »
I am sure there are times when even I would use the shift, but being a slave to it, especially in a crucial DP situation, is crazy, imo.
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #76 on: September 21, 2016, 08:59:04 am »
I am sure there are times when even I would use the shift, but being a slave to it, especially in a crucial DP situation, is crazy, imo.

I couldn't agree more. If I was pitching, I'd feel exposed and vulnerable about the shift.
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #77 on: September 21, 2016, 09:07:29 am »
Just want to emphasize how good Musgrove looked last night.  I realize we will see some inconsistency, but he might be our best starter now and a big piece for the future. 

Kudos to Gattis also, his pitch calling is far different than Castro's, and it really seems to instill confidence in the pitcher and uncertainty in the hitter.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #78 on: September 21, 2016, 09:16:05 am »
If you were a pitcher, you would not think strikeouts are unbeautiful.

From a pitcher's perspective, other than perhaps an inning-ending double play, a strikeout is the most beautiful thing in baseball. 
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #79 on: September 21, 2016, 09:22:32 am »
I generally am in favor of the shift, but I am not a proponent of shifting against marginal hitters and then pitching to the weakness in the defense (e.g. throwing an outside fastball when the traditional 2B fielding area is unoccupied). In the early shift era when it primarily deployed against only the best hitters in the league, that was less of an issue because the calculus involved making a guy like Bonds consider changing his approach and taking a single through a hole instead of hitting the ball 500 ft.  The Smolinski at bat last night was the shift at its worst. The Astros left a gaping hole on the right side and Musgrove worked away. If I'm a weak hitter facing a guy with a no hitter and the right side is open, I'm looking for anything on the outer half shoot through the right side.


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Asking a pitcher to "pitch to the shift" is completely assbackwards.  You position fielders where you think you have the greatest chance of fielding a batted ball, based on the pitcher and hitter.  You don't ask the pitcher to try to induce an outcome based on where you've pre-determined your fielders should be.  Traditional infield positioning is not random.  It's not drawn out of a hat with no reasoning behind it.  It's designed to cover the most amount of the infield ground.  Leaving 2/3rds of it uncovered and then asking your pitcher to alter *his* approach to accommodate it is simply asinine.  I get that there are certain hitters who are far less likely to hit to a certain spot, no matter where you pitch them.  With that, I'm OK moving fielders.  But to slavishly adhere to a shift, no matter the hitter, no matter the pitcher, no matter the situation...well, you know how I feel. 
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #80 on: September 21, 2016, 09:23:59 am »
Kudos to Gattis also, his pitch calling is far different than Castro's, and it really seems to instill confidence in the pitcher and uncertainty in the hitter.

I haven't noticed any particular pitch-calling advantage for Gattis.  Examples?
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #81 on: September 21, 2016, 09:30:49 am »
I haven't noticed any particular pitch-calling advantage for Gattis.  Examples?

my guess is Hinch calls pitches.
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #82 on: September 21, 2016, 09:31:28 am »
Asking a pitcher to "pitch to the shift" is completely assbackwards.  You position fielders where you think you have the greatest chance of fielding a batted ball, based on the pitcher and hitter.  You don't ask the pitcher to try to induce an outcome based on where you've pre-determined your fielders should be.  Traditional infield positioning is not random.  It's not drawn out of a hat with no reasoning behind it.  It's designed to cover the most amount of the infield ground.  Leaving 2/3rds of it uncovered and then asking your pitcher to alter *his* approach to accommodate it is simply asinine.  I get that there are certain hitters who are far less likely to hit to a certain spot, no matter where you pitch them.  With that, I'm OK moving fielders.  But to slavishly adhere to a shift, no matter the hitter, no matter the pitcher, no matter the situation...well, you know how I feel.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #83 on: September 21, 2016, 09:39:04 am »
yes, Lord

Just trying to explain my position on the shift.   
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #84 on: September 21, 2016, 09:52:25 am »
Just trying to explain my position on the shift.

with which I agree 1000%
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #85 on: September 21, 2016, 09:54:26 am »
I haven't noticed any particular pitch-calling advantage for Gattis.  Examples?
IIRC, last night, first batter, lefty, 2-1 count.  Musgrove on the mound, who normally competes with his FB command and his slider.  I'm expecting a FB to get back in the count, maybe the slider if they want to go backwards.  Instead, Gattis calls a change, which for Musgrove is a pitch he can command, but is easily inferior to his other offerings and is pretty squarable in a lot of situations.  The hitter makes solid contact, but is off balance and flies to center.

Later in the first inning, he called the change against a righty, which IMO, is unexpected by Musgrove first time through the order to a righty.  The hitter was also off-balance and fouled it, IIRC.  The long bat to Vogt seemed to feature a lot of pitches I did not expect.

In general, Gattis seems unafraid to call pitches multiple times in a row.  There have been a number of times with McHugh where he will call the hook many times in succession to a hitter who looks have trouble with it.  Rarely does Castro go to it more than twice in a row. 

IMO, Gattis calls a game like a hitter who is thinking "what pitch would I either not want to see at this moment, or not expect" whereas Castro is more conventional, based on the pitcher's strengths.  In other words, I am not often surprised by a pitch Castro calls (he calls like most catchers I see), but am often surprised by what Gattis calls. 

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #86 on: September 21, 2016, 10:03:26 am »
Asking a pitcher to "pitch to the shift" is completely assbackwards.  You position fielders where you think you have the greatest chance of fielding a batted ball, based on the pitcher and hitter.  You don't ask the pitcher to try to induce an outcome based on where you've pre-determined your fielders should be.  Traditional infield positioning is not random.  It's not drawn out of a hat with no reasoning behind it.  It's designed to cover the most amount of the infield ground.  Leaving 2/3rds of it uncovered and then asking your pitcher to alter *his* approach to accommodate it is simply asinine.  I get that there are certain hitters who are far less likely to hit to a certain spot, no matter where you pitch them.  With that, I'm OK moving fielders.  But to slavishly adhere to a shift, no matter the hitter, no matter the pitcher, no matter the situation...well, you know how I feel.

This. 1,000,000%. Let the pitcher pitch to his strengths, not the other way around.
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #87 on: September 21, 2016, 10:15:22 am »
with which I agree 1000%

OK.  Sounded like you were busting my chops.  My bad. 
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #88 on: September 21, 2016, 10:21:51 am »
IIRC, last night, first batter, lefty, 2-1 count.  Musgrove on the mound, who normally competes with his FB command and his slider.  I'm expecting a FB to get back in the count, maybe the slider if they want to go backwards.  Instead, Gattis calls a change, which for Musgrove is a pitch he can command, but is easily inferior to his other offerings and is pretty squarable in a lot of situations.  The hitter makes solid contact, but is off balance and flies to center.

A changeup is exactly what I'd expect in that situation.  The hitter is looking for a fastball, and if you can command a change, it's the no-brainer pitch to go with. 

Quote
Later in the first inning, he called the change against a righty, which IMO, is unexpected by Musgrove first time through the order to a righty.  The hitter was also off-balance and fouled it, IIRC.  The long bat to Vogt seemed to feature a lot of pitches I did not expect.

I hadn't noticed any particular pattern with Musgrove, but then I've only seen him pitch a few times. 

Quote
In general, Gattis seems unafraid to call pitches multiple times in a row.  There have been a number of times with McHugh where he will call the hook many times in succession to a hitter who looks have trouble with it.  Rarely does Castro go to it more than twice in a row.

I see this as a flaw, not a strength.  Obviously if a hitter can't hit a certain pitch, you keep throwing it.  But keep throwing the same pitch over and over is a bad habit.   I think Gattis sometimes falls in love with the same pitch over and over. 

Quote
IMO, Gattis calls a game like a hitter who is thinking "what pitch would I either not want to see at this moment, or not expect" whereas Castro is more conventional, based on the pitcher's strengths.  In other words, I am not often surprised by a pitch Castro calls (he calls like most catchers I see), but am often surprised by what Gattis calls.

Fair enough.  I guess I just don't see what you see. 
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #89 on: September 21, 2016, 10:24:29 am »
OK.  Sounded like you were busting my chops.  My bad.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #90 on: September 21, 2016, 12:12:55 pm »
IIRC, last night, first batter, lefty, 2-1 count.  Musgrove on the mound, who normally competes with his FB command and his slider.  I'm expecting a FB to get back in the count, maybe the slider if they want to go backwards.  Instead, Gattis calls a change, which for Musgrove is a pitch he can command, but is easily inferior to his other offerings and is pretty squarable in a lot of situations.  The hitter makes solid contact, but is off balance and flies to center.

Later in the first inning, he called the change against a righty, which IMO, is unexpected by Musgrove first time through the order to a righty.  The hitter was also off-balance and fouled it, IIRC.  The long bat to Vogt seemed to feature a lot of pitches I did not expect.

In general, Gattis seems unafraid to call pitches multiple times in a row.  There have been a number of times with McHugh where he will call the hook many times in succession to a hitter who looks have trouble with it.  Rarely does Castro go to it more than twice in a row. 

IMO, Gattis calls a game like a hitter who is thinking "what pitch would I either not want to see at this moment, or not expect" whereas Castro is more conventional, based on the pitcher's strengths.  In other words, I am not often surprised by a pitch Castro calls (he calls like most catchers I see), but am often surprised by what Gattis calls.
I find this all a very interesting take, but I couldn't help but laugh at that one part, envisioning Gattis calling for "slider two feet outside, in the dirt" on every single pitch of the game.
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #91 on: September 21, 2016, 12:43:15 pm »
I find this all a very interesting take, but I couldn't help but laugh at that one part, envisioning Gattis calling for "slider two feet outside, in the dirt" on every single pitch of the game.

I kind of had the same thought...Gattis...a pitch he wouldn't want to see?  He's never met a pitch he didn't like. 
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MusicMan

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #92 on: September 21, 2016, 01:29:05 pm »
I get that there are certain hitters who are far less likely to hit to a certain spot, no matter where you pitch them.  With that, I'm OK moving fielders.  But to slavishly adhere to a shift, no matter the hitter, no matter the pitcher, no matter the situation...well, you know how I feel. 

That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought out position.

It's also exactly what the Astros do.
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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #93 on: September 21, 2016, 01:58:45 pm »
That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought out position.

It's also exactly what the Astros do.

Yes, I know.  That's my problem with it.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #94 on: September 21, 2016, 02:19:18 pm »
Yes, I know.  That's my problem with it.

The first part is what that do.  Or did I miss the part where they slavishly shift for every single hitter?
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

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Re: Astros @ Athletics September 20, 2016
« Reply #95 on: September 21, 2016, 03:33:42 pm »
The first part is what that do.  Or did I miss the part where they slavishly shift for every single hitter?

You must have missed it. Every game. Geez, they shifted for fucking slap hitting Jake Smolinski last night and it almost cost them the game.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.