Let the Stove be Heated

[Reuben]

Today at 5pm (ET?) is the deadline for teams to make Qualifying Offers to their eligible free agents. In the Astros' case, kazmir isn't eligible because he was traded mid-season. Sipp won't get one, because the QO amount is $15.8m. So the only suspense is whether Rasmus will get one. If the Astros do offer him one, and he rejects it and then signs elsewhere, the Astros will get an extra draft pick next year in the sandwich round.

Also, beginning tomorrow all teams are free to negotiate with any free agents.

I have a feeling the Astros won't offer Rasmus a QO. Anyone feel differently?

[Jacksonian]

Today at 5pm (ET?) is the deadline for teams to make Qualifying Offers to their eligible free agents. In the Astros' case, kazmir isn't eligible because he was traded mid-season. Sipp won't get one, because the QO amount is $15.8m. So the only suspense is whether Rasmus will get one. If the Astros do offer him one, and he rejects it and then signs elsewhere, the Astros will get an extra draft pick next year in the sandwich round.

Also, beginning tomorrow all teams are free to negotiate with any free agents.

I have a feeling the Astros won't offer Rasmus a QO. Anyone feel differently?

I agree on Rasmus.

[pots]

I'm not sure why you wouldn't.

[Reuben]

I'm not sure why you wouldn't.

They might want a different type of player for the OF (Gordon, for example), or want to focus their FA dollars on a different positional target (Chris Davis? wishful thinking...) and go with a Marisnick/Tucker/whoever combo for LF.

Or they might want Colby back, but only at something like 2 yrs/$20-24 mil, nowhere close to $16m per.

Basically, if I'm Rasmus I'd be very tempted to accept a QO. And the Astros may not feel the risk is worth the reward. I could see it going either way.

[pots]

They might want a different type of player for the OF (Gordon, for example), or want to focus their FA dollars on a different positional target (Chris Davis? wishful thinking...) and go with a Marisnick/Tucker/whoever combo for LF.

Or they might want Colby back, but only at something like 2 yrs/$20-24 mil, nowhere close to $16m per.

Basically, if I'm Rasmus I'd be very tempted to accept a QO. And the Astros may not feel the risk is worth the reward. I could see it going either way.

Cobly's Sept/Oct numbers: 289/385/614.  And then he had that post season.  I have not seen a Astros hitter be as feared as he was in the post season.  If Colby was a free agent and said to everyone, give me a 1 year deal.  I think he could get 15.8 easily

[BlownRanger]

It'll be interesting to see if there actually is this Royals-induced industry-wide move the media is predicting toward contact hitters.  And if so, how might that affect free agents like Rasmus that strike out a lot.  I'm guessing the Astros don't make a qualifying offer to Colby, but they'd probably welcome what Reuben proposed about a multi-year deal for less than the 15.8 annually.

It'll also be interesting to see how much Crane loosens the purse strings for Luhnow this winter.

[pots]

No doubt they could use Rasmus on multiyear deal.  Gomez has only one year left.  So for 2017 it's Springer and question marks.  And with a multi year deal you'd likely can keep it to 13-14 mil per (3 year minimum).

[Jacksonian]

No doubt they could use Rasmus on multiyear deal.  Gomez has only one year left.  So for 2017 it's Springer and question marks.  And with a multi year deal you'd likely can keep it to 13-14 mil per (3 year minimum).

As things are now.  I have no doubt that Luhnow will swing a deal that will affect the outfield.

[hostros7]

If prognostications that Gordon may get offers in the range of $20mm per for 4-6 years, Rasmus should not and probably will not sign the QO.  He won't get Gordon money of course, but even a steep discount is a lot more guaranteed cheddar than $15.8mm per, although some teams have been reluctant to sign non-tier 1 FAs with QOs due to the draft pick.


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[astrosfan76]

Some Luhnow-tes:

"Our rotation is fine, but in every area, you have to look at is there an opportunity to upgrade here? And push everybody down a spot," Luhnow said. "It's highly unlikely we're going to get a No. 1 ahead of Dallas (Keuchel). It really is (thinking about) … are there some options to get guys behind or pair with Dallas to be a kind of 1-2 punch? That seems to be really important in the postseason and important to getting into the postseason...Or is it a guy that fits more of the back of the rotation, that gives us more depth and insurance if one of our guys has a hiccup?

There's a lot of variables," Luhnow said of his payroll. "We've got a lot of arbitration players that we don't know where they're going to end up, and obviously, trades could change things right out of the gate. But we have resources to improve this team. That's not a constraint that I'm necessarily worried about right now.

In an informal poll, MLB Radio asked where several of the top free agents would land.  The Astros were picked to sign the following:
Cespedes (Lidge)
Davis (Mike Stanton, Jim Memelo, Mel Antonen)
Zimmerman (Stanton, again)

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/astros/article/External-upgrades-could-be-limited-for-Astros-6614287.php?t=4f007e373e438d9cbb&cmpid=twitter-premium

[JimR]

Sipp said he wants to return in no uncertain terms after the last KC game.

[Reuben]

Sipp said he wants to return in no uncertain terms after the last KC game.

Pay the man. I love Sipp.

[doyce7]

Sipp said he wants to return in no uncertain terms after the last KC game.

I fully expect sipp to be back. 2/7 sounds about right to me. Maybe a club option for about 4 million on a 3rd year

[Jacksonian]

Qualifying offer made to Rasmus.

[JimR]

Qualifying offer made to Rasmus.

outstanding!

[Reuben]

Qualifying offer made to Rasmus.

I'm surprised, but glad.

a) it shows that the budget isn't so tight that they can't risk overpaying a bit on a 1-year guarantee

b) I like Rasmus, and I'd be happy if he came back.

[hostros7]

I'm surprised, but glad.

a) it shows that the budget isn't so tight that they can't risk overpaying a bit on a 1-year guarantee

b) I like Rasmus, and I'd be happy if he came back.

I'll be more surprised if he accepts it. The Astros didn't have much to lose by offering it given that (a) it's a 1 year deal for around his market value for a contending team with a low payroll and no obvious player to supplant him in the OF and (b) if he declines, it's a first round pick in Luhnow's pocket.

[JimR]

I'll be more surprised if he accepts it. The Astros didn't have much to lose by offering it given that (a) it's a 1 year deal for around his market value for a contending team with a low payroll and no obvious player to supplant him in the OF and (b) if he declines, it's a first round pick in Luhnow's pocket.

I will not be surprised. he was happy for the first time in his baseball life.

[hostros7]

I will not be surprised. he was happy for the first time in his baseball life.

I'm pretty sure that no player has ever taken a qualifying offer, and, if he declines it, nothing prohibits him from re-signing with the Astros under different terms.

[Reuben]

I'll be more surprised if he accepts it. The Astros didn't have much to lose by offering it given that (a) it's a 1 year deal for around his market value for a contending team with a low payroll and no obvious player to supplant him in the OF and (b) if he declines, it's a first round pick in Luhnow's pocket.

I don't think his market value is around $16m per year. Keep in mind, while he was amazing in September and October, and very solid all year before that, he still batted .238 for the year, with a .314 OBP and a 113 OPS+. Some teams will look at the batting avg and dismiss him. Others will look at his up-and-down career and say "not on a multi-year deal, no thanks," or "good player, but he had issues with management in STL and Toronto; not worth the trouble" or whatever.

Again, I love Colby. And I think it's very possible that he could hit even better than what he did this year. But there's a lot of quality OFs on the market - Heyward, Upton, Cespedes, Gordon, Fowler, Span - and it seems, anecdotally, like a lot of teams have cheap young OFers they want to give playing time to. I'm just not sure some other team is gonna go crazy to sign Colby. Maybe more like $10-12m per year, 2-3 years.

And like Jim says, he seemed to love being on the Astros, and given that he sort of marches to his own drummer, maybe he'll break the mold and be the first FA to accept a QO.

[moriartp]

I'm pretty sure that no player has ever taken a qualifying offer, and, if he declines it, nothing prohibits him from re-signing with the Astros under different terms.

This is how I see it. If he wants to stay (and by all accounts he does), I still think it makes more sense for him to decline the initial offer then negotiate a 2 or 3 year deal. I would be happy to see him return.

[Reuben]

Free Agent Trivia Question:

Which current Free Agent ranks #1 among active pitchers in fewest BB/9? Min 1,000 IP.

[moriartp]

Free Agent Trivia Question:

Which current Free Agent ranks #1 among active pitchers in fewest BB/9? Min 1,000 IP.

Bartolo?

[doyce7]

Free Agent Trivia Question:

Which current Free Agent ranks #1 among active pitchers in fewest BB/9? Min 1,000 IP.

I wanna say I heard that Zimmerman had a really good rate?

[Reuben]

I wanna say I heard that Zimmerman had a really good rate?

Good guess.

Answer: Doug Fister, with 1.76 BB/9, just beats out fellow-FA Jordan Zimmermann. Greinke is 10th at 2.18 and Price is 16th at 2.32.

[pots]

Qualifying offer made to Rasmus.

Nice.  Really hoping this leads to a 3-4 year deal. 

[Ebby Calvin]

Good guess.

Answer: Doug Fister, with 1.76 BB/9, just beats out fellow-FA Jordan Zimmermann. Greinke is 10th at 2.18 and Price is 16th at 2.32.

I've always liked Fister, and it seems injuries have set him back a bit over his career.  I wouldn't mind Luhnow taking a flier on him.

[Matt]

Anyone think the mystery team could be our very own Astros?
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/11/nexen-heros-accept-12-85mm-posting-fee-for-byung-ho-park.html

[moriartp]

Anyone think the mystery team could be our very own Astros?
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/11/nexen-heros-accept-12-85mm-posting-fee-for-byung-ho-park.html

It would not surprise me. He could replace Carter (hopefully with better production) as a real RH power option at a controlled cost for 4 years or so.

[Reuben]

I bet it's the Pirates. They need a better 1B than Alvarez, and they've got Kang and obviously have scouted that team extensively.

[Matt]

I bet it's the Pirates. They need a better 1B than Alvarez, and they've got Kang and obviously have scouted that team extensively.

It sounds like they'll announce it tomorrow morning Korea time. He hit a lot of home runs here but the stadiums are generally pretty small so I don't know how much of that power will translate.

[Reuben]

It sounds like they'll announce it tomorrow morning Korea time. He hit a lot of home runs here but the stadiums are generally pretty small so I don't know how much of that power will translate.

So you mean like 10 or so hours from now? That's rather inconsiderate, to keep us all in suspense that long.

[VirtualBob]

So you mean like 10 or so hours from now? That's rather inconsiderate, to keep us all in suspense that long.

Depends on the definition of "tomorrow". It is already after dinner Monday here in Thailand. If they had to decide by Monday we should already know.

[HudsonHawk]

Depends on the definition of "tomorrow". It is already after dinner Monday here in Thailand. If they had to decide by Monday we should already know.

What part of Thailand are you?

[pots]

According to MLBTR, not the Pirates.  Why would a team not want to everyone to know they made the offer?  Or are they just trying to avoid NFL Sunday?

[juliogotay]

According to MLBTR, not the Pirates.  Why would a team not want to everyone to know they made the offer?  Or are they just trying to avoid NFL Sunday?

Olney tweeted he has heard it is the A's.

[moriartp]

Multiple reporters all saying Twins now.

[Jacksonian]

I'm expecting it to not be the Astros.  I can't help but think Luhnow is really hoping Reed steps forward and takes the job.  Power hitting 1b who can also hit for average command sizable salaries.  If he continues what he's been doing he is exactly that and extremely cost controlled.

[Matt]

I'm expecting it to not be the Astros.  I can't help but think Luhnow is really hoping Reed steps forward and takes the job.  Power hitting 1b who can also hit for average command sizable salaries.  If he continues what he's been doing he is exactly that and extremely cost controlled.

I think I'm just hoping for an increase in Houston Astros coverage here in Korea.

[Matt]

Yep the media here is reporting its the Twins which is funny since one of the Seoul teams is actually the LG Twins so that works out for those fans. Sounds like there's another player being posted soon by the KBO though.

[VirtualBob]

What part of Thailand are you?

กรุงเทพฯ or as it is more widely known outside of Thailand, Bangkok.

[MusicMan]

กรุงเทพฯ or as it is more widely known outside of Thailand, Bangkok.

Are you a hard man, and has your time there made you humble?

[HudsonHawk]

กรุงเทพฯ or as it is more widely known outside of Thailand, Bangkok.

I'll be there in December.  I love Bangkok.  There's a lot going on. 

[Dark Star]

Are you a hard man, and has your time there made you humble?

It is probably hard to say, there being so little between despair and ecstasy.

[pots]

I've never been on the Gattis bandwagon, but non-tendering him seems extremely unlikely

[VirtualBob]

Are you a hard man, and has your time there made you humble?

I'm either missing that reference or having a frieda moment

[moriartp]

I'm either missing that reference or having a frieda moment

It's a drag,  it's a bore, it's really such a pity to be looking at (this) board, not looking at the city.

[chuck]

I'm either missing that reference or having a frieda moment

I had to google it and was deeply sorry that I did.

[Jacksonian]

I had to google it and was deeply sorry that I did.

Not nearly as sorry than if you hadn't needed too.

[chuck]

Not nearly as sorry than if you hadn't needed too.

True. But now I find myself in the don't need to group, a pitiable lot.

[Jacksonian]

True. But now I find myself in the don't need to group, a pitiable lot.

Welcome.

Kill me.

[Bench]

I had to google it and was deeply sorry that I did.

I googled it and still don't know what y'all are talking about.

[VirtualBob]

I googled it and still don't know what y'all are talking about.

I guess I'll just file it under "ignorance is bliss".

[Jacksonian]

So I'm looking at the roster and I don't know that Luhnow has to be very creative to improve the starting 8.  At catcher Castro is fine and hits 9th anyway.  I'd lose Conger and install Stassi.  At 1b I'd go with a platoon of Valbuena and Duffy.  Duffy's inexperienced but would only see the field against lefties.  His minor league history says he hits them well.  2b Altuve. SS Correa.  3b I'd give the job to Marwin full-time.  He's an excellent defender and was good enough with the bat last year against lefties and righties.  RF Springer.  CF Gomez.  LF I'd get Rasmus signed and use a pseudo platoon with Marisnick.  At DH I'd get a little radical and install Tyler White.  If he's the hitter he demonstrated last year as primarily a DH he should be better than Gattis.  So my batting order would then be:
Altuve
Springer
Correa
Valbuena/Duffy
Gomez
Rasmus/Marisnick
Gonzalez
White
Castro

That's as good a defensive team as last year and what looks to me like a better offensive team.

That would free up deals to include Conger, Carter, Lowrie, Singleton, Tucker, and Gattis.  Tucker especially could help land a closer.

A lineup thus would not require a free agent signing.  The focus could then be on the pitching staff and shoring up the thinner parts of the prospect pool.

[MusicMan]

Rasmus will become the first player ever to accept the qualifying offer, per Rosenthal.


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[moriartp]

He's giving up a fair chunk of guaranteed change with that decision. Glad to have him back.

[Uncle Charlie]

He's giving up a fair chunk of guaranteed change with that decision. Glad to have him back.

Sort of....

1. There is no guarantee he gets more (see Nelson Cruz, et al)
2. $15+ MM is quite a bit of guarantee - more than most people will make in a lifetime

Great to have him on this team.

[roadrunner]

I'm a little surprised.  Luhnow probably has mixed feelings.

[Mike S.]

That would close the door on a potential Gordon signing:

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/houston-astros-kansas-city-royals-alex-gordon-free-agency-interest-possibility-111115

[Jacksonian]

That would close the door on a potential Gordon signing:

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/houston-astros-kansas-city-royals-alex-gordon-free-agency-interest-possibility-111115

I'd have been shocked if he gave up a first round pick for him.

[Reuben]

Cheers to another year of Colby Jacks!

[Duman]

How much of the farm do you think we would have to give away for both Chapman & Fraizer from the Reds?

[Jacksonian]

How much of the farm do you think we would have to give away for both Chapman & Fraizer from the Reds?

Most of it

[astrosfan76]

Sort of....

1. There is no guarantee he gets more (see Nelson Cruz, et al)
2. $15+ MM is quite a bit of guarantee - more than most people will make in a lifetime

Great to have him on this team.

Plus, it doesn't guarantee that he makes $15.8M this season, just that his worst-case scenario is a one-year deal for $15.8M. He could still work out a multi-year deal, so accepting the QO gives him some bargaining power.

[Nate Colbert]

So I'm looking at the roster and I don't know that Luhnow has to be very creative to improve the starting 8.  At catcher Castro is fine and hits 9th anyway.  I'd lose Conger and install Stassi.  At 1b I'd go with a platoon of Valbuena and Duffy.  Duffy's inexperienced but would only see the field against lefties.  His minor league history says he hits them well.  2b Altuve. SS Correa.  3b I'd give the job to Marwin full-time.  He's an excellent defender and was good enough with the bat last year against lefties and righties.  RF Springer.  CF Gomez.  LF I'd get Rasmus signed and use a pseudo platoon with Marisnick.  At DH I'd get a little radical and install Tyler White.  If he's the hitter he demonstrated last year as primarily a DH he should be better than Gattis.  So my batting order would then be:
Altuve
Springer
Correa
Valbuena/Duffy
Gomez
Rasmus/Marisnick
Gonzalez
White
Castro

That's as good a defensive team as last year and what looks to me like a better offensive team.

That would free up deals to include Conger, Carter, Lowrie, Singleton, Tucker, and Gattis.  Tucker especially could help land a closer.

A lineup thus would not require a free agent signing.  The focus could then be on the pitching staff and shoring up the thinner parts of the prospect pool.

Pretty bold to count on Marwin and White as everyday players, I'll give you that. Seems like you'd have to hold on to both Lowrie and Gattis in case either player faltered.

Other than catcher and lefty pitchers, what do you regard as "thinner parts of the prospect pool"?

[JimR]

I'm a little surprised.  Luhnow probably has mixed feelings.

No, he does not. He wanted this.

[Jacksonian]

Pretty bold to count on Marwin and White as everyday players, I'll give you that. Seems like you'd have to hold on to both Lowrie and Gattis in case either player faltered.

Other than catcher and lefty pitchers, what do you regard as "thinner parts of the prospect pool"?

I think Marwin had enough at bats last season to show he can hit enough.

Upper level outfield, middle infield, third base, catcher, lefties.

[pots]

Pretty bold to count on Marwin and White as everyday players, I'll give you that. Seems like you'd have to hold on to both Lowrie and Gattis in case either player faltered.

Other than catcher and lefty pitchers, what do you regard as "thinner parts of the prospect pool"?

I don't have a problem with White getting a full time shot.  He's had no problem moving up each level so far.  If he keeps his same approach he'll at least give you a good at bat each time.  I think Gattis has some trade value as well as Lowrie.  Lowrie's contract was front loaded.  And with Colby accepting you now can look to move Tucker.  Just 7 days left to make the rule 5 40 man decisions.  I would guess Singleton, Tucker, Gattis, Lowrie and Carter are all on the block.  Expect they will trade/release at least 2 of them if not 3.

[HudsonHawk]

I don't have a problem with White getting a full time shot.  He's had no problem moving up each level so far.

Not that he can't do it, but...moving up to the big leagues is a HUGE leap.  The biggest jump in baseball is from AAA to the Majors. 

[Mr. Happy]

Not that he can't do it, but...moving up to the big leagues is a HUGE leap.  The biggest jump in baseball is from AAA to the Majors.

This is the truth. Ask Jon Singleton.

[pots]

This is the truth. Ask Jon Singleton.

There are players that succeeded immediately at every level then bombed out in the majors.  But Singleton is not one of them.

[Nate Colbert]

It's a "flood": Matt Wieters and Brett Anderson also accepted their QOs today.

So will this quiet all the talk that the QO system needs to be changed?

[hostros7]

@PeteAbe: #RedSox sent Margot, Guerra, infielder Carlos Asuaje and LHP Logan Allen to Padres for Kimbrel.


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[JimR]

Chapman still in play.

[moriartp]

FWIW, a few weeks back Drellich reported that the Astros could have had Kimbrel at the deadline for Martes, Hader, and Musgrove (deal would have changed obviously after Hader went to Milwaukee). So that gives us an idea at least of what Luhnow isn't willing to part with to get one of these guys.

[Reuben]

Red Sox get 3 years of Kimbrel. The price for chapman would presumably be much less, considering he's only got one year left on his contract.

[JimR]

Chapman was my first choice all along.

[roadrunner]

As much as I want Chapman, it would be nice to convert some of these pitchers coming up to relievers...seems like the best way to build a bullpen.

[JimR]

As much as I want Chapman, it would be nice to convert some of these pitchers coming up to relievers...seems like the best way to build a bullpen.

You think anyone can pitch relief?

[Nate Colbert]

Comes with a $118MM price tag ($12MM in 2016 and roughly $21MM owed each year from 2017-2021) but Rosenthal reporting the Braves are shopping Freddie Freeman.

Just 26, lotsa walks, lefty bat.

[toddthebod]

Freeman had one great year.  His last two years have just been okay.  He does get a lot of walks, but he also strikes out a ton.  Given his tremendous salary, I would pass.

[pots]

He does get a lot of walks, but he also strikes out a ton. 

Um, what team do you watch?  Freeman doesn't even make the top 5 in K rate on the Astros.  I mean if you are going to describe Freeman as strikes out a ton, how do you plan on describing the Astros players?

That being said, Freeman doesn't make sense for the Stros.  Ton of money to lock up for that long when Reed will be ready soon.  Then again if you trade Reed for Freeman, that problem goes away.  Wouldn't give up much more though. Freeman is being payed full value with that backloaded contract the Braves set up.  Also have to be ready to rip open the purse strings if you made a move like that.  Which I don't think Crane and company are interested in.

[doyce7]

Villar gone. Traded to the brewers for minor league pitcher Cy Sneed

[VirtualBob]

Villar gone. Traded to the brewers for minor league pitcher Cy Sneed

Sounds good to me. His offense and speed make him valuable to some, but I will be glad to see his defense (sic) be somebody else's albatross. And his boneheaded base running will be amusing instead of infuriating.

[pots]

So I guess this was a yes

Also Grossman and Luis Cruz released

40 man at 34. 

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Sounds good to me. His offense and speed make him valuable to some, but I will be glad to see his defense (sic) be somebody else's albatross. And his boneheaded base running will be amusing instead of infuriating.

Never forget.

[juliogotay]

Remember who is now GM in sudsville. Former Asst GM to Luhnow (Godfrey?). I predict Villar will have a nice career and play at the ML level for several years as a utility guy.

[Uncle Charlie]

40-man down to 34...making quite a bit of room for contracts being purchased ahead of Rule 5 and then FAs.

[hostros7]

Remember who is now GM in sudsville. Former Asst GM to Luhnow (Godfrey?).

Stearns

[Uncle Charlie]

Villar gone. Traded to the brewers for minor league pitcher Cy Sneed

From MLBTR: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/11/brewers-acquire-jonathan-villar-astros.html

The 23-year-old Sneed spent this past season, his age-22 campaign, pitching for the Brewers’ Class-A affiliates in the Midwest and Florida State Leagues. The 2014 third-rounder posted a combined 2.58 ERA with 7.9 K/9 against 1.8 BB/9 in 139 1/3 innings of work. MLB.com didn’t rank Sneed among Milwaukee’s Top 30 prospects, and J.J. Cooper of Baseball America tweets that Sneed is a “three-pitch right-haner who competes with fringe-average stuff.”

I find it hard to believe that a 3rd round pick from two years ago has "fringe-average stuff"

[BUWebguy]

Here's a Brewers SB Nation review from when he was drafted:
http://www.brewcrewball.com/2014/6/6/5786540/brewers-cy-sneed-2014-mlb-draft

And here's MLB's video review:
http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/67565098/v33270427/draft-report-cy-sneed-college-pitcher
(Short version: Maintains 90-92 deep into games; capable of reaching 95; heater is a bit straight; changeup and curve are below average)

[VirtualBob]

Cooper of Baseball America tweets that Sneed is a “three-pitch right-haner who competes with fringe-average stuff.

From MLBTR: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/11/brewers-acquire-jonathan-villar-astros.html
I find it hard to believe that a 3rd round pick from two years ago has "fringe-average stuff"

Sound a bit like Keuchel?  That would be nice.

[Jacksonian]

From MLBTR: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/11/brewers-acquire-jonathan-villar-astros.html
I find it hard to believe that a 3rd round pick from two years ago has "fringe-average stuff"

That's about right.  He was kind of a low-risk but bonus money saver pick.

[pots]

Sneed pitched well late last year.  August+ was 35 innings over 6 starts.  35 Ks to just 9 walks and  33 hits.  Only gave up 4 homeruns in 139+ innings last year. 

Last game was stellar.  Write up mentions a splitter

[Jacksonian]

Sound a bit like Keuchel?  That would be nice.

From the right side.  The Astros have a number of low-90's/average secondary right-handed pitchers.

[jbm]

From the right side.  The Astros have a number of low-90's/average secondary right-handed pitchers.

I get the feeling that the Astros generally target strike throwers first, and hope to develop something off that base to make them special.  Sure, they grab and value pure arms also, but that's not where the inefficiencies lie.  The organization seems capable of churning out 4s and 5s (and hope a few eventually become 2s or 3s) without expending much.  This strategy seems to work well.

[Astro1959]

Somehow it feels like a trade made to free up spots on the 40 more than it was to add talent to the system. Or put better, Snead may be less valuable than the 40 man roster spot we freed up.

As a total homer, I have to admit that it seems like limited return on a young middle infielder with proven bat and great legs. I'm even afraid of Grossman coming back to be a solid #4 outfielder for some MLB team.

But again 40 man for Houston is harder to make than some major league rosters.

[Jacksonian]

I get the feeling that the Astros generally target strike throwers first, and hope to develop something off that base to make them special.  Sure, they grab and value pure arms also, but that's not where the inefficiencies lie.  The organization seems capable of churning out 4s and 5s (and hope a few eventually become 2s or 3s) without expending much.  This strategy seems to work well.

AAAA players are valuable particularly because they can help AAA and AA teams win games as well.

[toddthebod]

Um, what team do you watch?  Freeman doesn't even make the top 5 in K rate on the Astros. 

Freeman struck out 145 times in 2014 and almost 100 times in 2015 in only about 400 at bats.

[pots]

Freeman struck out 145 times in 2014 and almost 100 times in 2015 in only about 400 at bats.

I prefer to consider strikeout rate with plate appearances, but either way my statement holds true


Interesting how close it apparently came

[Reuben]

I prefer to consider strikeout rate with plate appearances, but either way my statement holds true


Interesting how close it apparently came

Doesn't sound all that close, but it is interesting.

" Three sources told Yahoo Sports that Freeman’s name came up in conversations with the Houston Astros as part of a mega-trade that would’ve included more than five players. It went nowhere"

[Nate Colbert]

A bit more on Mr. Sneed from BA along a similar vein to what was posted above:

As a durable innings-eater with three fringe-average to average offerings, he has the makings of a fifth starter if he reaches his ceiling, although he’s more likely to be a “sixth starter” who sits at Triple-A and gets called on when injuries arise. He fills the strike zone with strikes and has above-average control, which is vital as none of his offerings–a 90-92 mph fastball, curveball and change–are plus pitches.

Link

[Jacksonian]

A bit more on Mr. Sneed from BA along a similar vein to what was posted above:

Link

At AAA and AA: Wojo, Straily, Hauschild, Rodgers, Devenski.  They at least help you win there.

This is more about a 40-man spot.

[pots]

So the Dodgers are having issues with Puig.  Due just 27 million over the next three years.  The Astros currently have only Springer locked up in the outfield past this year.  Would a trade say involving Gomez make sense?  Maybe something like Gomez, Feldman, and Appel? 

And is Puig just too much a pain in the ass or would the quieter environment of the Astros fit him well(as others have benefited from before)? 

[doyce7]

So the Dodgers are having issues with Puig.  Due just 27 million over the next three years.  The Astros currently have only Springer locked up in the outfield past this year.  Would a trade say involving Gomez make sense?  Maybe something like Gomez, Feldman, and Appel? 

And is Puig just too much a pain in the ass or would the quieter environment of the Astros fit him well(as others have benefited from before)?

I don't want anything to do with puig.

[pots]

yikes, no thanks.

The Reds and Red Sox discussed a trade for Aroldis Chapman, but Cincinnati wanted more from Boston than the Sox eventually sent to the Padres to land Craig Kimbrel.

[Reuben]

yikes, no thanks.

The Reds and Red Sox discussed a trade for Aroldis Chapman, but Cincinnati wanted more from Boston than the Sox eventually sent to the Padres to land Craig Kimbrel.

Yeah, fuck that. Now, this is kinda interesting:

The Astros have (Andrew) Miller atop their list for a closer, according to a major league source, and Melancon is also on that list. The Astros have several prospects they could deal for a top reliever.

link

[pots]

Dallas setting up free agents not on the radar

There’s a rich free-agent starting pitching market out there, and Dallas Keuchel wouldn’t mind if the Astros add from it.

“The baseball fan in me definitely would like to see an upgrade but that’s not in my control,” Keuchel said. “I know I’ve made pitches to David Price — it’s just the baseball fan in me at the end of the day. I just play. … I think (the bosses) know that we’re in a good position.”

[JimR]

Yeah, fuck that. Now, this is kinda interesting:link

Melancon is who I told my friend Dan I thought might want to return.

[juliogotay]

Melancon is who I told my friend Dan I thought might want to return.

Melancon lives  in Houston.

[VirtualBob]

Melancon lives  in Houston.

But does he have a ranch?

[moriartp]

Melancon gets outs, but he may not be the Astros' favorite option considering their desire for a hard thrower.

Then again, he gets outs.

[juliogotay]

Melancon gets outs, but he may not be the Astros' favorite option considering their desire for a hard thrower.

Then again, he gets outs.

It seems that the hard-thrower is what they are looking for.

[Reuben]

It seems that the hard-thrower is what they are looking for.

We'll see how important that is to them. If they were totally obsessed with velocity out of the pen, they probably would've protected Reymin Guduan for the Rule 5.

[Jacksonian]

Hoes dealt back to Baltimore.

[MusicMan]

Hoes dealt back to Baltimore.

Just another area code.

[Nate Colbert]

Non-tender deadline is Wednesday. MLBTR with their list of guys who may be on the bubble.

[Nate Colbert]

Can he sing? Aroldis Chapman now represented by Magnus Sports (along with traditional sports agent Praver Shapiro), a newly-formed company run by Jay Z wannabe Marc Anthony.

Read the PR Flackery

[pots]

Non-tender deadline is Wednesday. MLBTR with their list of guys who may be on the bubble.

It will be interesting with Carter.  Unloading Lowrie may have opened the door back up for him.  Still think he has a good chance of being non-tendered though.  With both White and Reed waiting in the wings. 

[Reuben]

It will be interesting with Carter.  Unloading Lowrie may have opened the door back up for him.  Still think he has a good chance of being non-tendered though.  With both White and Reed waiting in the wings.

I can't see them non-tendering Carter. They had plenty of reasons to dump his ass this past season and never did. Surely even if they don't see him as their 1B next year, they can at least get something in trade for him. Lots of teams looking for power hitters, flawed or not.

[MusicMan]

The #Astros are shopping Chris Carter in advance of tender deadline, sources say. They're focusing on AL clubs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WVastro]

The #Astros are shopping Chris Carter in advance of tender deadline, sources say. They're focusing on AL clubs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

MLBTR also mentions they're listening to offers on Marisnick:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/12/astros-shopping-chris-carter.html

[JimR]

MLBTR also mentions they're listening to offers on Marisnick:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/12/astros-shopping-chris-carter.html

hard for me to believe they'd pursue another high strikeout guy while unloading Carter, and I hope Marisnick stays.

[juliogotay]

hard for me to believe they'd pursue another high strikeout guy while unloading Carter, and I hope Marisinick stays.

I hope they don't sell short on Marisnick. I really think this guy will breakout with the bat and he has the other tools. Gomez is signed for one more year and Marisnick could be ready for prime time by then. I don't see another CFer in the MiLs that is near ready with Phillips dealt in the Gomez deal.

[VirtualBob]

I hope they don't sell short on Marisnick. I really think this guy will breakout with the bat and he has the other tools. Gomez is signed for one more year and Marisnick could be ready for prime time by then. I don't see another CFer in the MiLs that is near ready with Phillips dealt in the Gomez deal.

I agree.  Andrew Aplin is not the answer.

[pots]

Marisnick has options.  No reason to unload him at all unless you get a surprise offer.  This just doesn't make any sense.  Marisnick will be needed if any of Springer, Gomez, or Rasmus misses time next year.  And neither Rasmus or Gomez are locked up beyond 2016. 

[pots]

I agree.  Andrew Aplin is not the answer.

Trying to find out more information on Aplin and whether or not that OBP could possibly carry over to the majors... Most of the links for Alpin are for this catch

[Jacksonian]

Trying to find out more information on Aplin and whether or not that OBP could possibly carry over to the majors... Most of the links for Alpin are for this catch

Maybe but the bigger question is can he hit major league pitching.  His comps are more in line with Grossman and Presley than, say, a Michael Bourn type player.

[Nate Colbert]

7yr/$217MM contract being reported between David Price and Boston.

[JimR]

7yr/$217MM contract being reported between David Price and Boston.

obscene

[das]

7yr/$217MM contract being reported between David Price and Boston.

Ties Miggy as the highest per year MLB contract at $31M per.  Agree with Jim, that's just obscene.

[Nate Colbert]

Some of today's speculation re Carter involved Baltimore as a possible destination but the Orioles have apparently just pulled the trigger on a deal for Trumbo.

[Reuben]

Ties Miggy as the highest per year MLB contract at $31M per.  Agree with Jim, that's just obscene.

"Miggy" still makes me think of Miguel Tejada first. Especially on this site.

[JimR]

"Miggy" still makes me think of Miguel Tejada first. Especially on this site.

Same here

[Nate Colbert]

Come on folks, let's get with the crazy-ass trade ideas. And I'll be the dumbass that kicks it off:

Send Chris Carter and Evan Gattis to the Mariners for Nelson Cruz. Carter has a .911 career OPS at Safeco and would fill the 1B vacancy created by the Trumbo trade. Gattis replaces Cruz at DH. Seattle also gets financial relief, shedding nearly $43MM ($14.3MM annual salary owed Cruz for the next 3 years) while taking on $9MM of 2016 combined salary (MLBTR estimate) in Carter/Gattis thru arbitration (Carter/Gattis both of course will be under club control thru 2018). Frees up money to re-sign Iwakuma (whose cost to re-sign just got a lot higher in the past week as we now know what starting pitcher prices are this off-season). They'll also be getting younger.

No need to discuss what Cruz has done the last two seasons. His career OPS at MMP is .969 (vs just .836 at Safeco). Risk for Houston is his age as he turns 36 in July. Another possible issue is his offensive numbers throughout his career are less robust when DHing than when playing the OF.

Almost certainly some prospects would need to go in the deal. Maybe a Joe Musgrove and a Nolan Fontana?

Is Nelson Cruz available? Dunno, although this Seattle Times columnist writes that trading Cruz is not a ridiculous idea for the Ms to consider as his trade value is unlikely to get any higher.

Flame on.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Come on folks, let's get with the crazy-ass trade ideas. And I'll be the dumbass that kicks it off:

Send Chris Carter and Evan Gattis to the Mariners for Nelson Cruz. Carter has a .911 career OPS at Safeco and would fill the 1B vacancy created by the Trumbo trade. Gattis replaces Cruz at DH. Seattle also gets financial relief, shedding nearly $43MM ($14.3MM annual salary owed Cruz for the next 3 years) while taking on $9MM of 2016 combined salary (MLBTR estimate) in Carter/Gattis thru arbitration (Carter/Gattis both of course will be under club control thru 2018). Frees up money to re-sign Iwakuma (whose cost to re-sign just got a lot higher in the past week as we now know what starting pitcher prices are this off-season). They'll also be getting younger.

No need to discuss what Cruz has done the last two seasons. His career OPS at MMP is .969 (vs just .836 at Safeco). Risk for Houston is his age as he turns 36 in July. Another possible issue is his offensive numbers throughout his career are less robust when DHing than when playing the OF.

Almost certainly some prospects would need to go in the deal. Maybe a Joe Musgrove and a Nolan Fontana?

Is Nelson Cruz available? Dunno, although this Seattle Times columnist writes that trading Cruz is not a ridiculous idea for the Ms to consider as his trade value is unlikely to get any higher.

Flame on.

I'll take the bait.  Where would you play Cruz?  I'm guessing DH, since his OF defense doesn't hold a candle to any of the incumbents.  Which leaves 1B wide open, so you're assuming that one of the kids (White/Reed) steps up or you've got Marwin over there on a regular basis.

[juliogotay]

obscene

Very similar to numbers to Kershaw's deal. Neither of whom have been especially dominant in the post-season.

[Nate Colbert]

I'll take the bait.  Where would you play Cruz?  I'm guessing DH, since his OF defense doesn't hold a candle to any of the incumbents.  Which leaves 1B wide open, so you're assuming that one of the kids (White/Reed) steps up or you've got Marwin over there on a regular basis.

Cruz at DH. If (as Drellich seems to believe) Carter is pretty much gone anyway at this point, 1B is wide open whether you acquire Cruz or not. But yeah it's gonna be a pecking order along these lines:

1. Marwin/Valbuena (whoever's not manning 3rd)
2. Singleton
3. Duffy/White/Reed

Personally I would have kept Lowrie and had him in the 1B/3B mix. If one of the younger guys seize the day later in the year, that's when I would have (perhaps) traded Lowrie

[JimR]

Very similar to numbers to Kershaw's deal. Neither of whom have been especially dominant in the post-season.

big understatement

[Nate Colbert]

1. Marwin/Valbuena (whoever's not manning 3rd)
2. Singleton
3. Duffy/White/Reed

Or maybe that pecking order looks like this (so as not to leave out anyone with 1B experience at some level, be it however limited):

1. Marwin/Valbuena (whoever's not manning 3rd)
2. Singleton/Tucker
3. Duffy/White/Reed

[astrosfan76]

Or maybe that pecking order looks like this (so as not to leave out anyone with 1B experience at some level, be it however limited):

1. Marwin/Valbuena (whoever's not manning 3rd)
2. Singleton/Tucker
3. Duffy/White/Reed

As many times as Hinch as shot down Tucker at 1B (when even Conger was getting reps there during the summer), I think you were closer the first time.

[pots]

Or maybe that pecking order looks like this (so as not to leave out anyone with 1B experience at some level, be it however limited):

1. Marwin/Valbuena (whoever's not manning 3rd)
2. Singleton/Tucker
3. Duffy/White/Reed

I honestly think if Carter is gone that first base is White's to lose come spring training.  Just seems like he has a real good shot of translating to the bigs well. 

[Nate Colbert]

The news about the Astros supposed interest in PHillies closer Ken Giles has been out there for several weeks now. But Jerry Crasnick adds a bit more in a tweet earlier today:

Jerry Crasnick ‏@jcrasnick  2 hours ago
#Astros and #Phillies recently discussed Ken Giles. #Phillies brought up Lance McCullers and Vincent Velasquez, sources say.

[pots]

Jerry Crasnick ‏@jcrasnick  2 hours ago
#Astros and #Phillies recently discussed Ken Giles. #Phillies brought up Lance McCullers and Vincent Velasquez, sources say

Velasquez I could see.  But McCullers is insane.   And both would be ludicrous

[Jacksonian]

Velasquez I could see.  But McCullers is insane.   And both would be ludicrous

I'd just as soon they install Velasquez as closer.  He throws nearly as hard as Giles and can get major league hitters out.

[Nate Colbert]

Luhnow (per McTaggart):

"I think I'd be disappointed if we didn't have at least one, if not two transactions between now and the end of the Winter Meetings." (that would be Dec 10)

"...so naturally, [corner infield] would be an area where there could be some possible moves."

[JimR]

Velasquez I could see.  But McCullers is insane.   And both would be ludicrous

crazy talk. the Phillies are nuts.

[Duman]

crazy talk. the Phillies are nuts.

+1

[Nate Colbert]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal  8 minutes ago
Two non-tender candidates who have been offered in trades today, according to sources: #Astros’ Hank Conger and #SFGiants’ Yusmeiro Petit.

[Nate Colbert]

If Conger is non-tendered (or traded), will the Astros go after this guy?

C Tyler Flowers was non-tendered earlier today by the ChiSox. He's an excellent pitch framer (see this article citing the FG stats). He threw out 25% of baserunners this past season (and 27% in his career). 29 years old. Hit .239/.295/.356 in 2015 (in line with career numbers). Righty swinger. Big boy at 6'4" 245 lbs.

Phil Rogers ‏@philgrogers  2 minutes ago
Tyler Flowers, who was non-tendered by the #WhiteSox, will be missed by Chris Sale and the pitcher's staff. He'd be fine in better lineup.

[BlownRanger]

crazy talk. the Phillies are nuts.

I suspect Jerry Crasnick and his sources are the ones who are nuts.

[hostros7]

The Tags Twitter feed:
Can confirm Chris Carter has been non-tendered by the Astros.

[pots]

The Tags Twitter feed:
Can confirm Chris Carter has been non-tendered by the Astros.

Should be noted that White has been playing a lot of first recently down in the Dominican.   Every game since his Thanksgiving break and a couple before that. 

[Jacksonian]

Conger dealt to the Rays for cash.

[Uncle Charlie]

Conger dealt to the Rays for cash.

Well, that acquisition didn't work out. Oh well, much more good than bad thus far. Next.

[JimR]

Well, that acquisition didn't work out. Oh well, much more good than bad thus far. Next.

Agree. He supplied some power and seemed to be a good, fun guy.

[Reuben]

Well, that acquisition didn't work out. Oh well, much more good than bad thus far. Next.

Hey, you never know. Maybe the cash is a cool 20 mil.

[David in Jackson]

Have to agree with Conger and Carter moves.  Props to both - the 2015 team would bot have made the playoffs without Carter's amazing finish.

[HudsonHawk]

Have to agree with Conger and Carter moves.  Props to both - the 2015 team would bot have made the playoffs without Carter's amazing finish.

This cuts both ways.  Perhaps the Astros have another couple games in their pocket had Carter played better earlier in the season.  Still, he played well at the end, as did the entire team, after they'd been struggling, and I wasn't sure they still had anything left in tank.  I wish them both well, but the Astros are at a point that they simply cannot afford the ups and downs with these guys.

[juliogotay]

Agree. He supplied some power and seemed to be a good, fun guy.

He will be missed in the clubhouse.

[Fredia]

sad about konger

[mrpink]

Obviously, Conger's problem was his defense.  Which is puzzling because isn't that something that could be improved upon with work and proper instruction?  Or is the general consensus that once you're 27 years old you're too old to learn new tricks?

[gundy315]

Obviously, Conger's problem was his defense.  Which is puzzling because isn't that something that could be improved upon with work and proper instruction?  Or is the general consensus that once you're 27 years old you're too old to learn new tricks?

Transforming a noodle arm to a cannon at age 27 would be one hell of a trick.

[doyce7]

I've never hid my feelings about the Conger, he should never have been on the team at all. He seemed like a good guy and I know he was well liked in the clubhouse, but this is great for the team.

[jaklewein]

I've never hid my feelings about the Conger, he should never have been on the team at all. He seemed like a good guy and I know he was well liked in the clubhouse, but this is great for the team.

Dude could do the robot dance like no other.

[HudsonHawk]

Transforming a noodle arm to a cannon at age 27 would be one hell of a trick.

Exactly.  Can he improve?  Probably.  But he's no spring chicken for a catcher.  He's a mid-career guy, and making a project out of such a guy is not a luxury this team has. 

[Knoxbanedoodle]

Dude could do the robot dance like no other.

Will the Congerbot resurface in whatever dugout he finds himself next year? Or was that, like, a you-had-to-be-there 2015 Astros thing?

[toddthebod]

I'm quite happy about the Conger deal because this hopefully means that Stassi can get at bats.  I've only been impressed from what I've seen from Stassi in his MLB at bats.

I understood the Comger deal when it happened.  I think that the Astros wanted to trade Castro and they saw Conger as a very good defensive catcher who also had pop.  But Conger couldn't throw out a baserunner.  And Castro was a very good defensive catcher (he deserved to be a gold glove finalist).  And even though Conger hit some home runs, I thought he looked totally overmatched at the plate.  The better option going forward is Castro.

I'm a little disappointed that the Astros got nothing for Carter.  I think that every team knew that the Astros were going to nontender him.  So why make a trade.  I think he'll do well in free agency.  What I don't understand are the articles that I have read that say that Carter is a defensive liability at first.  I thought that he was a very good defensive firstbaseman.  I don't think the Astros are going to go outside the org for a replacement.  Between Singleton, Duffy, Gonzalez, White and Reed, there are plenty of options who should be able to produce at least what the Astros got from Carter last season. 

[juliogotay]

Exactly.  Can he improve?  Probably.  But he's no spring chicken for a catcher.  He's a mid-career guy, and making a project out of such a guy is not a luxury this team has.

I wonder if he always had a poor arm or if there was an injury? If his arm was always poor it was no secret around the league and the club still dealt for him. Just an odd trade to me in the first place and it cost them a young catcher that could have a  nice  career in the league.

[mrpink]

Transforming a noodle arm to a cannon at age 27 would be one hell of a trick.

He doesn't need a cannon to be an effective catcher, just needs to be effective enough to deter baserunners from running at will.  So my question should have been, did anyone detect bad footwork/lack of followthrough, or did his sudden inability to control the running game (he wasn't bad before he came here) develop because he's got a weak-ass arm?

The injury thing could be a possibility too.

[moriartp]

I wonder if he always had a poor arm or if there was an injury? If his arm was always poor it was no secret around the league and the club still dealt for him. Just an odd trade to me in the first place and it cost them a young catcher that could have a  nice  career in the league.

His CS rate was 24% in both '13 and '14. It was pretty good in the minors. For it to drop all the way to 2% this year, it seems likely that he was injured.

[juliogotay]

His CS rate was 24% in both '13 and '14. It was pretty good in the minors. For it to drop all the way to 2% this year, it seems likely that he was injured.

Thanks for the stats. I agree that injury seems likely.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

I'm quite happy about the Conger deal because this hopefully means that Stassi can get at bats.  I've only been impressed from what I've seen from Stassi in his MLB at bats.

I understood the Comger deal when it happened.  I think that the Astros wanted to trade Castro and they saw Conger as a very good defensive catcher who also had pop.  But Conger couldn't throw out a baserunner.  And Castro was a very good defensive catcher (he deserved to be a gold glove finalist).  And even though Conger hit some home runs, I thought he looked totally overmatched at the plate.  The better option going forward is Castro.

I'm a little disappointed that the Astros got nothing for Carter.  I think that every team knew that the Astros were going to nontender him.  So why make a trade.  I think he'll do well in free agency.  What I don't understand are the articles that I have read that say that Carter is a defensive liability at first.  I thought that he was a very good defensive firstbaseman.  I don't think the Astros are going to go outside the org for a replacement.  Between Singleton, Duffy, Gonzalez, White and Reed, there are plenty of options who should be able to produce at least what the Astros got from Carter last season.

His glove is what I'll miss the least.

[HudsonHawk]

He doesn't need a cannon to be an effective catcher, just needs to be effective enough to deter baserunners from running at will.  So my question should have been, did anyone detect bad footwork/lack of followthrough, or did his sudden inability to control the running game (he wasn't bad before he came here) develop because he's got a weak-ass arm?

The injury thing could be a possibility too.

He may be injured, but the result is that he just has a noodle arm. I don't think it's mechanical, he just doesn't have the arm strength to throw the ball that far effectively. A rotator cuff issue would be the first injury or think of.  But even beyond that, he's a poor defensive catcher in most other aspects as well.

[BizidyDizidy]

He may be injured, but the result is that he just has a noodle arm. I don't think it's mechanical, he just doesn't have the arm strength to throw the ball that far effectively. A rotator cuff issue would be the first injury or think of.  But even beyond that, he's a poor defensive catcher in most other aspects as well.

Except pitch framing.

[HudsonHawk]

Except pitch framing.

Not sure if you're being facetious or not, but I don't know how he got the reputation of being good at framing pitches. He's particularly bad at it.

[mrpink]

Not sure if you're being facetious or not, but I don't know how he got the reputation of being good at framing pitches. He's particularly bad at it.

I think he was being facetious with regards to the importance of framing, but Conger is not bad at it, much less particularly bad at it.

[BlownRanger]

What I don't understand are the articles that I have read that say that Carter is a defensive liability at first.  I thought that he was a very good defensive firstbaseman.

Carter was pretty good at snaring ground balls hit his way, but I thought he was woefully deficient in all other aspects of playing first base.  He couldn't pick low throws, he stretched with the wrong leg, and by the end of the year it seemed only a matter of time before he got Correa killed with a bad throw to second base.

[mrpink]

And right on cue Fangraphs comes up with an article discussing this.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/hank-congers-jon-lester-season-behind-the-plate/

[HudsonHawk]

And right on cue Fangraphs comes up with an article discussing this.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/hank-congers-jon-lester-season-behind-the-plate/

I don't see what you guys see in Conger's glove.

[gundy315]

And right on cue Fangraphs comes up with an article discussing this.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/hank-congers-jon-lester-season-behind-the-plate/

That article - the Scioscia quote, in particular - pretty much nailed it.  It's all about the pop time.  Long exchange and long arm sweep combined with low throwing velocity (and I'd add fairly slow footwork) is a recipe for disaster.  You can mask a deficiency in one or two of those areas if you are excellent in others.  Conger may have been better at one of those areas in 2013/14, and may have been working with "quicker" pitchers.  When the difference between an excellent and terrible pop time is about 0.3 seconds there is no room for regression.

[BizidyDizidy]

Not sure if you're being facetious or not, but I don't know how he got the reputation of being good at framing pitches. He's particularly bad at it.

I am profoundly unqualified to evaluate catchers, but that was always the story with him. I find the whole thing a bit funny.

For the more complicated way, we turn to Baseball Prospectus. Their framing numbers are based on more intricate formulas, controlling for a great number of variables. In 2013, out of regular and semi-regular catchers, Conger ranked tied for fifth in framing runs expressed as a rate stat. He was third in extra strikes per game. In 2014, Conger ranked first in runs as a rate stat, and second in extra strikes per game. Let’s combine the last two years. Let’s set a minimum of 5,000 so-called “framing opportunities”. We’re left with a pool of 56 catchers. Within that pool, Conger ranks second in extra strikes per game, and second in framing runs per game. The only catcher better: Jose Molina, who wasn’t better in the season that just ended.

Take the BP numbers at face value, and the last two years, Conger’s framing has been worth more than 30 runs alone. People quibble with the magnitudes of these things, and people debate over how to distribute responsibility, but it makes sense that the Astros would be believers in this, just as the Rays have been and just as the Brewers obviously are. The Astros, presumably, see Conger as an elite-level framer, and though he doesn’t have too many other skills, Nelson Cruz doesn’t have too many other skills aside from clobbering dingers, and the dingers make him valuable. It doesn’t matter how a guy’s good, as long as he’s good. The Astros identified and got a good player, according to the ways they evaluate players.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-astros-get-their-jose-molina/

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/111627786/astros-catcher-hank-conger-adept-at-pitch-framing

This article suggests statistical fluke:

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2014/11/5/7164887/hank-congers-suspect-framing-numbers

[BizidyDizidy]

This is oddly mesmerizing:

http://cdn.fangraphs.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/catcherszones.gif

[HudsonHawk]

This article suggests statistical fluke:

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2014/11/5/7164887/hank-congers-suspect-framing-numbers

Statistical fluke or not, watching him tells me he's poor at pitch framing and other areas of catcher defense.  He routinely cost his pitchers strikes last year. He moves around way too much, snatches at the ball, reaches and doesn't turn the glove over when he should.  His blocking skills are ok, and as far as I know he had no trouble "handling" pitchers. But receiving and throwing were really bad.

[Kit]

I may be the only one around here who (will be)  is sad to see Carter go. I know his  K's were a major problem but that kind of power doesn't grow on trees and his defense had improved. Oh well.  Lunhow has been so solid that I have stopped 2nd guessing them anymore. Go Stros!

[jbm]

I don't see what you guys see in Conger's glove.

I also get a little irritated about the pitch framing crap and the fangraphs article.  Notwithstanding the method of measuring pitch framing, and whether the measured skill is real or valuable, nor whether Conger is or isn't a master at it, one will never convince me that it is "probably the most important skill for a catcher to have!" (fangraphs article).  Seriously? 

The Astros were damn smart to limit Conger to teams without many plus base-stealers, but that was a huge fucking liability.  It meant that Castro couldn't be pinch for against a team with some base-stealers, and it meant that Conger was basically worthless against KC.  Did he even play in the post season?

I liked the guy and I will always fondly remember his interaction with the Ranger's jackoff, but the reason he is gone is precisely because he is a defensive liability, whether he possesses some magical skill or not.

[HudsonHawk]

The Astros were damn smart to limit Conger to teams without many plus base-stealers, but that was a huge fucking liability.  It meant that Castro couldn't be pinch for against a team with some base-stealers, and it meant that Conger was basically worthless against KC.  Did he even play in the post season?

Conger caught the last inning of the infamous Game 4. He didn't bat.

[Lefty]

But receiving and throwing were really bad.

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln....

[juliogotay]

I read something interesting today about the Astros pitchers holding guys on 1B.  Astros staff attempted 23 pickoffs per 100 stolen base opportunities, last in the AL. MLB ave. per 100 = 40.
That doesn't really excuse Congers' poor throwing performance as Castro did pretty well but it is worth noting. Makes me wonder if the front office has some stat that holding a guy on is overrated or something.

[pots]

Seriously, 1 out of 43.  Stassi might have had the #2 spot coming out of camp anyways.  They saved 1.8ish million plus whatever the Rays gave for him and have another spot open on the 40 man.  You're not carrying 3 catchers and you can't send him down.  Was his bot routine that intoxicating to the fan base?

[das]

Was his bot routine that intoxicating to the fan base?

Yes.
https://media.giphy.com/media/xTiTnLEFbMFovvL4IM/giphy.gif

[Fredia]

your picture is mesmerizing

[Bench]

I may be the only one around here who (will be)  is sad to see Carter go. I know his  K's were a major problem but that kind of power doesn't grow on trees and his defense had improved. Oh well.  Lunhow has been so solid that I have stopped 2nd guessing them anymore. Go Stros!

I'll miss Carter too.  In addition to the power, I enjoyed his personality and demeanor.  Very calm, surprisingly introspective.  I won't miss the baserunning though.  God that was maddening.   

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Yes.
https://media.giphy.com/media/xTiTnLEFbMFovvL4IM/giphy.gif

How long do I have to wait after viewing before I can get in the car and drive?

[JimR]

I'll miss Carter too.  In addition to the power, I enjoyed his personality and demeanor.  Very calm, surprisingly introspective.  I won't miss the baserunning though.  God that was maddening.   

I liked Carter too, but he made Mark apoplectic.

[moriartp]

Oliver Perez signed with the Nats for 2 years, $7 million. I'm curious to see how Luhnow addresses the lack of lefties in the pen.

[JimR]

Oliver Perez signed with the Nats for 2 years, $7 million. I'm curious to see how Luhnow addresses the lack of lefties in the pen.

Tony Sipp should be one. He said he wanted to return.

[BlownRanger]

Oliver Perez signed with the Nats for 2 years, $7 million. I'm curious to see how Luhnow addresses the lack of lefties in the pen.

I'm liking the chances of a deal with Tampa for Boxberger and lefty McGee.  If Chapman was meant to be an Astro, I think it would have already happened.

[Reuben]

I'm liking the chances of a deal with Tampa for Boxberger and lefty McGee.  If Chapman was meant to be an Astro, I think it would have already happened.

I'm not that impressed with Boxberger. McGee has put up some awesome numbers though.

I hope SIPPERSTAR comes back, but the inferior Perez getting 2/$7m isn't encouraging. Sipp might want something like 3/$12, and while I'm happy to spend Crane's money in that way, Luhnow might not be so eager.

[Waldo]

Tony Sipp should be one. He said he wanted to return.

Yeah, I don't know why they wouldn't bring Sipp back.  He was pretty solid all year - without looking at numbers it seemed like he was more immune to the bullpen collapse than the others.

[doyce7]

Yeah, I don't know why they wouldn't bring Sipp back.  He was pretty solid all year - without looking at numbers it seemed like he was more immune to the bullpen collapse than the others.

Sipp, if I remember correctly, had his struggles mid-season when the rest of the pen was pretty good. He was one of the most reliable down the stretch.

[Fredia]

sometimes the plans for the team for next year seem a bit fuzzy. a sipp of something might help

[Jacksonian]

Greinke to the Dbacks.

[doyce7]

Greinke to the Dbacks.

Apparently 206 for 6 years. Damn, that's a hunk of change

[juliogotay]

Sipp, if I remember correctly, had his struggles mid-season when the rest of the pen was pretty good. He was one of the most reliable down the stretch.

That is my recollection as well.

[WVastro]

Luhnow has remained remarkably silent throughout frankly a pretty active signing period. This is good. Why pay when you can trade? I like that the Astros haven't paid out the ass for starting pitching that will be good for two years and then be unfathomably shitty. Trade young for young and hope your analysis and scouts get it right. Lunhow has a plan and it seems to me at least to not involve high priced free-agents.

 Highly priced trade targets however.... The team gives up a lot and gets a lot. I like that "roll of the dice".

[Jacksonian]

Samalphabet signs with the Giants, 5 years/90 mil. And he's not a difference maker in the rotation.

[Uncle Charlie]

Samalphabet signs with the Giants, 5 years/90 mil. And he's not a difference maker in the rotation.

Crazy valuation.

[hostros7]

Keuchel hasn't had a bad last few days.


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[austro]

Keuchel hasn't had a bad last few days.

No shit. That's going to be an interesting situation.

[Mr. Happy]

Samalphabet signs with the Giants, 5 years/90 mil. And he's not a difference maker in the rotation.

I don't know what's going on in SFO. That looks like a desperation signing after missing out on Price and Greinke, which is unlike Sabean.

[Reuben]

I don't know what's going on in SFO. That looks like a desperation signing after missing out on Price and Greinke, which is unlike Sabean.

Exactly. It's one thing to sign a guy like that on a 1-2 year make-good deal, and reasonably say "Hey, he had a rough 2015, but this guy still has the upside of a #2 starter and could really help us".

It's quite another to say "Hey, this guy has a 50/50 chance to pitch like a #2 starter, so we're gonna wager $90m on that and pay him like one." And this is the Giants we're talking about. They don't have to pay guys extra to sign there, because they're a legit contender year-in, year-out.

[mrpink]

I don't know what's going on in SFO. That looks like a desperation signing after missing out on Price and Greinke, which is unlike Sabean.

That's exactly what I thought when he signed Barry Zito and Aaron Rowand. 

He makes bad decisions every year, IMO, and somehow Bochy turns them into World Series rings.

[Nate Colbert]

Kenley ain't gonna be happy...

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal  1 hour ago
Sources: #Dodgers making progress on Chapman deal with #Reds.

[JimR]

Kenley ain't gonna be happy...

We are supposed to be in this too.

[roadrunner]

2 prospects that are not Seager, Urias, or DeLeon....sounds like a deal the Astros could have made without too much pain.

[JimR]

2 prospects that are not Seager, Urias, or DeLeon....sounds like a deal the Astros could have made without too much pain.

I wonder who our primary target is.

[juliogotay]

I wonder who our primary target is.

I keep reading they are still in on Chapman but maybe not the favorite. 1B slugger Chris Davis is getting tied to Houston lately as a FA.
I personally hope Houston does not give up a top-shelf player for a one-year guy like Chapman. McCullers and Reed are names that keep coming up as leaving. I can see Reed if Davis is signed but McCullers in a Chapman deal I am not for.
 

[JimR]

I keep reading they are still in on Chapman but maybe not the favorite. 1B slugger Chris Davis is getting tied to Houston lately as a FA.
I personally hope Houston does not give up a top-shelf player for a one-year guy like Chapman. McCullers and Reed are names that keep coming up as leaving. I can see Reed if Davis is signed but McCullers in a Chapman deal I am not for.

I have read elsewhere the Chapman to the Dodgers deal is done.

[toddthebod]

I'm happy we didn't overpay for one year of Chapman.  And we don't need Chris Davis.  We have plenty of good fist base options, ultimately leading to AJ Reed.

Find guys under team control.  Make a deal with the Rays.

Don't abandon the plan. 

[juliogotay]

Reliever Drew Storen of Washington is on the market apparently with Houston as a possible.

[Nate Colbert]

Crasnick says Sipp looking for 3 year deal at $5/6MM per.

[das]

I personally hope Houston does not give up a top-shelf player for a one-year guy like Chapman. McCullers and Reed are names that keep coming up as leaving. I can see Reed if Davis is signed but McCullers in a Chapman deal I am not for.

I can't think of too many players that I'd like to have that would be worth McCullers.  Legit potential #1 if he can stay healthy with his (seemingly) unorthodox delivery.

[das]

Crasnick says Sipp looking for 3 year deal at $5/6MM per.

I'd gladly pay Crane's $$ for this.  I like Sipp.  Very good in '14, total workhorse in '15.

Edited to add:  look at his nums from the last two years.  Very similar except for ERA.  The value of having an improved D behind you. 

http://m.mlb.com/player/448609/tony-sipp

[pots]

1B slugger Chris Davis is getting tied to Houston lately as a FA.

Do you have a source on this?

[toddthebod]

Reliever Drew Storen of Washington is on the market apparently with Houston as a possible.

Heyman tweets that chapman, Miller, and Melancon are the Astros top three targets and that Storen is fallback.

I really like the Miller idea.  And the Yankees are definitely looking to get younger so I would think the Astros are a good trading partner.

[BlownRanger]

Do you have a source on this?

There was one ESPN guy who predicted Davis to Houston, but he also predicted Chapman to Houston.  It looks like he was one of a bunch of dudes who were asked to make bold predictions.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/page/wintermeetings15_predictions/2015-winter-meetings-predictions

[pots]

Crasnick says Sipp looking for 3 year deal at $5/6MM per.

Well that would explain why the Astros haven't wrapped him up yet.  Pretty steep for 50 middle relief innings innings. 

[Fredia]

everyone seems to be a bit pricy in the offseason

[JimR]

Heyman tweets that chapman, Miller, and Melancon are the Astros top three targets and that Storen is fallback.

I really like the Miller idea.  And the Yankees are definitely looking to get younger so I would think the Astros are a good trading partner.

I like Miller too, and agree Luhnow should not have overpaid for Chapman.

[ValpoCory]

I like Miller too, and agree Luhnow should not have overpaid for Chapman.

No one thinks that Luhnow should have overpaid for Chapman.  The real question is ... should Luhnow have given up the amount the Dodgers gave up in order to get Chapman. 

  "The two prospects have not yet been identified, but reports say it is not any of the Dodgers' top three prospects -- shortstop Corey Seager, left-hander Julio Urias or right-hander Jose De Leon."

That doesn't sound like overpaying to me, to get one of the best closers in baseball and solve a gaping hole in your team.

[pots]

That doesn't sound like overpaying to me, to get one of the best closers in baseball and solve a gaping hole in your team.

Dodgers #4 and #5 prospects are the #24 and #58 overall prospects.  That would be Bergman and Daz Cameron from the Astros. 

[JimR]

No one thinks that Luhnow should have overpaid for Chapman.  The real question is ... should Luhnow have given up the amount the Dodgers gave up in order to get Chapman. 

  "The two prospects have not yet been identified, but reports say it is not any of the Dodgers' top three prospects -- shortstop Corey Seager, left-hander Julio Urias or right-hander Jose De Leon."

That doesn't sound like overpaying to me, to get one of the best closers in baseball and solve a gaping hole in your team.

you know more than I know. As for me, I will rely on Luhnow's judgment 100% of the time.

ETA: closer was not a "gaping hole" in the 2015 Astros.

[ValpoCory]

Dodgers #4 and #5 prospects are the #24 and #58 overall prospects.  That would be Bergman and Daz Cameron from the Astros.

#56 Kyle Tucker is closer to their #58 prospect than #53 Daz Cameron.   But still, your point is valid.   The Dodgers' 4th and 5th best prospects are better than most teams' 4th and 5th best prospects.

[ValpoCory]

you know more than I know. As for me, I will rely on Luhnow's judgment 100% of the time.

ETA: closer was not a "gaping hole" in the 2015 Astros.

Agree on closer.  The gaping hole I was referring to was the late inning bullpen as a group, that Luhnow has been trying to address for months.

[Mr. Happy]

you know more than I know. As for me, I will rely on Luhnow's judgment 100% of the time.

ETA: closer was not a "gaping hole" in the 2015 Astros.

/ass kisser alert/ I agree with Coach. Outside of the Conger deal, I really like what Luhnow has done./ass kisser alert/ All I know is that I don't know.

[JimR]

Agree on closer.  The gaping hole I was referring to was the late inning bullpen as a group, that Luhnow has been trying to address for months.

he wants a flame thrower. the last pen had everything else. the key to the collapse was having to overwork the others because of Neshek's ineffectiveness. I wonder if he was injured or just tired. his pitches all lost their tilt and bite.

[pots]

I like Miller too, and agree Luhnow should not have overpaid for Chapman.

What bothers me about Miller is the Stros offered a tidbit more for his services.  And now thanks to his decision the Stros will have to give the Yankees a top prospect or 2 AND they missed out on his fantastic 2015 campaign.  Disappointing

[BlownRanger]

he wants a flame thrower. the last pen had everything else. the key to the collapse was having to overwork the others because of Neshek's ineffectiveness. I wonder if he was injured or just tired. his pitches all lost their tilt and bite.

It's complete 20/20 hindsight, but considering the lead was 4 runs, you have to wonder what would have happened if Hinch had just given the ball to Neshek for the eighth inning of game 4.

[JimR]

It's complete 20/20 hindsight, but considering the lead was 4 runs, you have to wonder what would have happened if Hinch had just given the ball to Neshek for the eighth inning of game 4.

I have thought that too.

[pots]

It's complete 20/20 hindsight, but considering the lead was 4 runs, you have to wonder what would have happened if Hinch had just given the ball to Neshek for the eighth inning of game 4.

Well that's just silly.  Given how bad that fateful inning worked out, just about any different decision would have likely worked out better.  Could have probably let Gattis pitch and it might have worked out better.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Chapman deal not official, per Jayson Stark.  Another writer in the twitterverse seems to think that other teams have upped their offer, causing Cincy to reopen the bidding.

[toddthebod]

Rosenthal just tweeted Reed and another prospect for chapman.  Fuck that.  I'm seriously pissed.

[toddthebod]

Rosenthal says it's a done deal.  Calls it a "stunning turn of events."

[JimR]

Rosenthal just tweeted Reed and another prospect for chapman.  Fuck that.  I'm seriously pissed.

if it is just two, I am not. We are deep in prospects, and there has to be another hitter among them. I am going to say again: I trust Luhnow.

[moriartp]

Rosenthal says it's a done deal.  Calls it a "stunning turn of events."

I don't think that's actually Ken Rosenthal. I'm looking at his feed. Might be a fake account, they pop up all the time during trade season.


Yeah, found it. Fake.

[toddthebod]

This feels a little like Larry Anderson for Bagwell to me. 

[Jacksonian]

Rosenthal says it's a done deal.  Calls it a "stunning turn of events."

Are you sure that's right?  I don't have that on Rosenthal's timeline.

[Reuben]

I don't think that's actually Ken Rosenthal. I'm looking at his feed. Might be a fake account, they pop up all the time during trade season.


Yeah, found it. Fake.

Yeah I follow Rosenthal and saw nothing.

[toddthebod]

I don't think that's actually Ken Rosenthal. I'm looking at his feed. Might be a fake account, they pop up all the time during trade season.


Yeah, found it. Fake.

Shit.  You are right.  I hate the Internet.  (This site notwithstanding.)

[Jacksonian]

Still, Chapman to the Dodgers isn't done so a deal to the Astros could still happen.

[pots]

What would the Reds need with Reed anyhow.  Votto is locked up till 2023

[moriartp]

Shit.  You are right.  I hate the Internet.  (This site notwithstanding.)

Someone made a fake Drellich account the other day and reported Giles to Houston. I think another reporter tweeted out "oh for fuck's sake, who makes a fake Evan Drellich account?"

[toddthebod]

if it is just two, I am not. We are deep in prospects, and there has to be another hitter among them. I am going to say again: I trust Luhnow.

As a general matter, I agree with you.  Except for Reed.  I think he needs to be untouchable.  Maybe the only untouchable in the Astros system. 

[JimR]

As a general matter, I agree with you.  Except for Reed.  I think he needs to be untouchable.  Maybe the only untouchable in the Astros system.

Maybe he is.

[pots]

As a general matter, I agree with you.  Except for Reed.  I think he needs to be untouchable.  Maybe the only untouchable in the Astros system.

Thought the same thing about Phillips in July

[Jacksonian]

As a general matter, I agree with you.  Except for Reed.  I think he needs to be untouchable.  Maybe the only untouchable in the Astros system.

Power/average lefty hitters aren't easy to find.  He might be a high enough leverage prospect in Luhnow's mind to make him untouchable.

[Reuben]

Thought the same thing about Phillips in July

The only way that deal begins to make any sense to me is if they project Phillips as more of a .280/ 10-15 HR RF with a poor SB rate, rather than a true 5-tool CF.

[toddthebod]

Reason #8634 I need to get a life:

Mike Hiserman, the deputy sports editor for the LA times, tweets that "stud reporter" Dylan Hernandez (Dodgers beat reporter) says Chapman to Astros. 

I think this is at least triple hearsay.

[pots]

Reason #8634 I need to get a life:

Mike Hiserman, the deputy sports editor for the LA times, tweets that "stud reporter" Dylan Hernandez (Dodgers beat reporter) says Chapman to Astros. 

I think this is at least triple hearsay.

It's easier just to follow mlbtr.  They filter twitter. 

[Fredia]

someone is stocking the stove with lots of cow chips...

[toddthebod]

It's easier just to follow mlbtr.  They filter twitter.

I do.  But damnit, I need more.  I'm a junkie.

[JimR]

My best baseball source says tap the brakes on Reed.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

My best baseball source says tap the brakes on Reed.

In terms of the enthusiasm that Astros fans have for him, or for the FO's willingness to trade him?

[Bench]

In terms of the enthusiasm that Astros fans have for him, or for the FO's willingness to trade him?

I'm assuming in terms of the expectations and projections of him as a major leaguer. 

[JimR]

I'm assuming in terms of the expectations and projections of him as a major leaguer.

Yes

[doyce7]

I'm assuming in terms of the expectations and projections of him as a major leaguer.

I want to see what Reed has got but what I don't want is to go into the season saying "it's Reed, singleton or bust"

[pots]

I want to see what Reed has got but what I don't want is to go into the season saying "it's Reed, singleton or bust"

cough White cough

[Nate Colbert]

Gunshots, girlfriend-choking = trade scuttling?

Passan tweeting about Chapman.

Link to article

[pots]

Gunshots, girlfriend-choking = trade scuttling?

Passan tweeting about Chapman.

Link to article

Wow, how is a story like that not known before now?

[toddthebod]

cough White cough

White is tearing it up in winter ball.  Dude can rake.

[Nate Colbert]

Luhnow talking 'bout pen help today:

"We've stated it's a priority for us this offseason to add an arm or two to the bullpen, but there are lots of avenues to get there, and we've got some guys in our system that may be able to help," Luhnow said. "Will Harris was not even on most peoples' penciled-in roster, and he ended up being a big part of our bullpen. Maybe [Minor Leaguer] James Hoyt is that guy, who knows? But we're going to continue to work hard to improve the bullpen one way or another."

Hoyt of course came in the Gattis deal from the Braves. Reported mid-90s FB. Had an excellent back half of the season with Fresno, with just 18 hits and 4 walks allowed in 28 IP while whiffing 40. Carried that over to winter ball with a 26/5 K to W ratio in 19 IP and 15 hits allowed in the VWL. 29 years-old after a late start in professional BB. Not on 40-man so he'll come to camp as an NRI (as he did last year).

[Nate Colbert]

I really like the Miller idea.  And the Yankees are definitely looking to get younger so I would think the Astros are a good trading partner.

Mentioned here is the health issue regarding Miller because of the month he spent on the DL due to the forearm strain in June. Maybe that's a factor as well if the Yankees are willing to part with him, being afraid that a TJ is in his near-future?

(FWIW, his K rate pre and post injury was about the same--57 Ks in 35.1 IP vs 43 Ks in 26.1 IP pre-injury.)

[Nate Colbert]

And the Chapman saga may get even more interesting:

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal  57 minutes ago
Sources: At least one team that spoke with #Reds believes that Chapman might have injured a hand in alleged domestic-violence incident.

[JimR]

Has Chapman become an albatross for the Reds?

[jbm]

And the Chapman saga may get even more interesting:

Attack the girlfriend, shoot up the joint, twelve cops at the house but more importantly, he might have fucked up his hand. 

[Ty in Tampa]

Find guys under team control.  Make a deal with the Rays.

I don't know about Boxberger but McGee would fit right nicely into the plan. He's got the flamethower/closer stuff.

[pots]

Was Walt Jocketty being deceitful in hiding Chapman's issue or were teams really going after him knowing all this crap was going on? 

Or perhaps the Dodgers are fixing their Puig issues by threatening to room him with Chapman

[Waldo]

My best baseball source says tap the brakes on Reed.

Was there a reason given for this?  I realize he hasn't yet taken an AB at AAA, but his production thus far speaks for itself.  Does he have problems in the clubhouse or off the field?

[Reuben]

Was there a reason given for this?  I realize he hasn't yet taken an AB at AAA, but his production thus far speaks for itself.  Does he have problems in the clubhouse or off the field?

Curious to hear what Jim says, but I feel like I've read that scouts are not impressed by his bat speed, despite the big numbers.

[BlownRanger]

I don't know about Boxberger but McGee would fit right nicely into the plan. He's got the flamethower/closer stuff.

I would love to get both these guys.  When you look at Boxberger's incredible 2014 season, and then consider that while his 2015 measurables were down he still managed to lead the league with 41 saves, I think getting both of them would be a MAJOR upgrade in the bullpen.

[juliogotay]

Curious to hear what Jim says, but I feel like I've read that scouts are not impressed by his bat speed, despite the big numbers.

I have read the bat speed concerns, too.

[pots]

Did I miss something?  Is Gomez on the block?  His name was mentioned as a possible trade piece in a Storen trade and now as a possible backup for the Cubs should they fail to sign Gordon.  I wasn't aware they were shopping him.  Odd

[JimR]

Was there a reason given for this?  I realize he hasn't yet taken an AB at AAA, but his production thus far speaks for itself.  Does he have problems in the clubhouse or off the field?

nothing off the field or clubhouse mentioned, and he talked to someone yesterday who saw him play every day. the big numbers were at a launching pad and are discounted somewhat.

the general opinion was Correa was untouchable, but Reed is not. this is not to say he is not a great prospect.

[Jacksonian]

I have read the bat speed concerns, too.

There were things like this written after the first month of the season while Reed was struggling.  When his bat took off those same writers were nowhere to be found.

[astrosfan76]

FWIW

Jayson Stark ‏@jaysonst 9m9 minutes ago

Sources: Mystery team making "very strong" bid for Jose Fernandez. Other clubs believe it's the Astros. More soon at http://ESPN.com

[JimR]

There were things like this written after the first month of the season while Reed was struggling.  When his bat took off those same writers were nowhere to be found.

my comments did not come from writers. again, the issue was "untouchable," not "great prospect."

[Jacksonian]

nothing off the field or clubhouse mentioned, and he talked to someone yesterday who saw him play every day. the big numbers were at a launching pad and are discounted somewhat.

Lancaster is one of the best hitters parks in all of minor league baseball.  Reed spent the majority of time there last season.

Corpus can be hitter friendly too.  But Reed's road hitting at AA was good over about 100 at-bats.

I don't know if Reed will be able to hit major league pitching, but his rapid rise in the system (he was drafted in 2014) tells me Luhnow and company think a lot of his bat.  Folks will know better in spring training when he faces major league pitchers.

[Jacksonian]

my comments did not come from writers. again, the issue was "untouchable," not "great prospect."

And my comment was not directed at what you wrote, only at the reports published about bat speed.

[Jacksonian]

FWIW

I would swear the Marlins brass are on record saying Fernandez was untouchable.

[JimR]

I would swear the Marlins brass are on record saying Fernandez was untouchable.

recently, too. maybe yesterday.

[pots]

Clearly the Marlins are expecting a haul as if he'll be healthy for the next 3 years.  But Tommy John, Biceps strain and hasn't seen the 7th inning since July. Man that's a huge risk.   

[toddthebod]

Crasnick tweets that Bregman would be involved. 

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Crasnick tweets that Bregman would be involved.

Link?  I don't see that on Crasnick's Twitter.  This is Christmas for Fake Ass Twitter Accounts.

[pots]

Drellich source says Astros not in on Fernandez

[juliogotay]

Drellich source says Astros not in on Fernandez

I hope Drelich is correct.

[Ebby Calvin]

I hope Drelich is correct.

I agree, but man that kid is good (when healthy).

[Ty in Tampa]

I would love to get both these guys.  When you look at Boxberger's incredible 2014 season, and then consider that while his 2015 measurables were down he still managed to lead the league with 41 saves, I think getting both of them would be a MAJOR upgrade in the bullpen.

Absolutely, I would just be concerned with what the Rays will want for both.

[Ebby Calvin]

Consider the source, PLEASE

Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanESPN  2m2 minutes ago
Astros offering Correa and Appel for Fernandez per report #Astros #Marlins

[Jacksonian]

Consider the source, PLEASE

Fake.  I believe his official account is @jonheymancbs.

[Ebby Calvin]

Fake.  I believe his official account is @jonheymancbs.

Thank you.
I'll go back to RMPL.

[juliogotay]

I agree, but man that kid is good (when healthy).

There were comments on MLB the other night that indicate he is a bit of an attitude problem. May contribute to why he is even rumored to be available.

[hostros7]

At least I got to learn what "RMPL" stands for in the midst of all the lunacy, which is nice.


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[JimR]

the Astros ain't offering Correa to anyone for anything.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

There were comments on MLB the other night that indicate he is a bit of an attitude problem. May contribute to why he is even rumored to be available.

Me too. I can't decide which result is funnier, though, between "Rocky Mountain Philatelic Library" and the other thing.

[Nate Colbert]

Not that this would be news:

Evan Drellich ‏@EvanDrellich  2 hours ago
Jeff Luhnow said the Astros are going to explore possibilities at backup catcher and first base. Rival scout confirms they're indeed looking.

[JimR]

I am way past ready for something to happen.

[pots]

I think the Marlins are just having fun with this:

Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria says there’s “nothing I am thinking about doing at the moment” with Fernandez, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports

[Reuben]

the Astros ain't offering Correa to anyone for anything.

That seems rather closed-minded of them. I think they should consider trading Correa in a 3-team deal that brings back Trout, Harper, and a Brinks truck.

Otherwise though, I think he should be off-limits.

[pots]

That seems rather closed-minded of them. I think they should consider trading Correa in a 3-team deal that brings back Trout, Harper, and a Brinks truck.

Otherwise though, I think he should be off-limits.

Out of boredom,
What if the Dodgers called and offered Coery Seager, Julio Urias, Jose De Leon, Jose Peraza and Grant Holmes for Correa?

[juliogotay]

I am way past ready for something to happen.

I would not be surprised if nothing happens this week.  Seems like more and more the Winter Meets are about seeing what is available.

[doyce7]

I am way past ready for something to happen.

I keep thinking something will have happened every time I get on twitter or this site.

[BudGirl]

Out of boredom,
What if the Dodgers called and offered Coery Seager, Julio Urias, Jose De Leon, Jose Peraza and Grant Holmes for Correa?

No

[juliogotay]

No

Wow.

[juliogotay]

I would swear the Marlins brass are on record saying Fernandez was untouchable.

Shelby Miller seems to be available. No doubt the Braves want a lot back but Houston could probably satisfy them.
Any takers?

[Duman]

Crasnick tweets that Bregman would be involved.

If you see any 2015 draft picks in a rumor.  Ignore it.  You can't trade someone until a year after they have been drafted. 

[moriartp]

If you see any 2015 draft picks in a rumor.  Ignore it.  You can't trade someone until a year after they have been drafted.

I believe this was changed after the Trea Turner mess and that players can now be traded after the end of the WS in their draft year.

On the other hand, no player can be listed as a PTBNL before he is eligible to be traded.

[doyce7]

I believe this was changed after the Trea Turner mess and that players can now be traded after the end of the WS in their draft year.

On the other hand, no player can be listed as a PTBNL before he is eligible to be traded.

I THINK this is correct

[Nate Colbert]

C Tyler Flowers was non-tendered earlier today by the ChiSox. He's an excellent pitch framer (see this article citing the FG stats). He threw out 25% of baserunners this past season (and 27% in his career). 29 years old. Hit .239/.295/.356 in 2015 (in line with career numbers). Righty swinger. Big boy at 6'4" 245 lbs.

Signed 2 year/$5.3MM deal with the Braves.

[Fredia]

in the words of the great charlie brown and i quote "AUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG"

[Nate Colbert]

I believe this was changed after the Trea Turner mess and that players can now be traded after the end of the WS in their draft year.

On the other hand, no player can be listed as a PTBNL before he is eligible to be traded.

Just to illustrate this point, #1 overall pick Dansby Swanson just got traded from the D-Backs to the Braves in a package for Shelby Miller.

[Jacksonian]

Stay the course Jeff!  Don't overpay for anything.

[JJxvi]

Are the dbacks taking crazy pills?

[austro]

Starlin Castro going to the Yankees. I can't really think of another player more ill-suited to the pressure and microscope of NY. It will be interesting watch that play out.

[Fredia]

qualls to the rockies for two years..go figure

[WVastro]

The Diamondbacks are nuts. Hopefully Jeff will be there waiting when they have a fire sale in August and buys low.

[Duman]

You guys are right. I was operating off old info. Happening more often these days. As I get older, so does my info apparently.


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[WVastro]

Does anyone here pull the trigger on Bregman, Appel, and Marisnick for Miller and Speier?

[toddthebod]

The NY Post says that the Yankees are interested in VV for Miller.  Sounds about right. 

http://nypost.com/2015/12/08/yankees-eyeing-astros-young-righty-flame-thrower/

[JimR]

The NY Post says that the Yankees are interested in VV for Miller.  Sounds about right. 

http://nypost.com/2015/12/08/yankees-eyeing-astros-young-righty-flame-thrower/

I would do that.

[juliogotay]

I would do that.

Seems very reasonable.

[Nate Colbert]

Heyman just tweeted the Astros are "still trying" to acquire Ken Giles.

[das]

Heyman just tweeted the Astros are "still trying" to acquire Ken Giles.

...and Drellich reports that the Astros / Kazmir talks have started up again.
http://blog.chron.com/ultimateastros/2015/12/07/astros-scott-kazmir-have-mutual-interest-in-reunion/

At what point does this start to make sense to the Astros given the makeup and trajectory of this team?  2 years, $30M?  3 years, $45M?  One year deal only?

[JimR]

...and Drellich reports that the Astros / Kazmir talks have started up again.
http://blog.chron.com/ultimateastros/2015/12/07/astros-scott-kazmir-have-mutual-interest-in-reunion/

At what point does this start to make sense to the Astros given the makeup and trajectory of this team?  2 years, $30M?  3 years, $45M?  One year deal only?

I hope we resign him.

[toddthebod]

I really don't understand the need for Kazmir.  The Astros have Keuchel, McHugh, and McCullers as their top three starters.  Then they have Feldman, Fiers, Velasquez, and Appel as potential 4-5 starters.  And they have Straily, Oberholtzer, Wojo, and maybe Peacock in AAA.  And there are other prospects as well.  It seems to me that paying a shitload of money for an old starting pitcher makes no sense.

[pots]

Seems to be a bunch of pitchers that should be running out of options.  Perhaps someone with better option calculation skills can check this list:

Seems to be out:
Straily
Peacock

Might have one left?
Oberholtzer

Already have these starters who you have to and want them to stay:
Keuchel
McHugh
McCullers
Fiers
Feldman

Velasquez can go to pen or back down
Wojciechowski has at least one option left

Seems like signing another starter would jam it up even more.

[Fredia]

what happened to the major request for a closer

[das]

I hope we resign him.

I tend to agree.  A proven 4-5 starter (that pokes up to a 2-3 starter for periods each year) and runs out a 3.50 ERA and keeps the ball in the park is a useful part of most playoff-caliber teams.  The $15m per year (my total WAG on what he'd likely receive) seems steep considering what is in the pipeline but I'd wager Kazmir would equal more AIS (and other tangible benefits such as vet leadership to younger emerging pitchers and a + on team chemistry).  That, plus, if he is signed for 2-3 years, that gives Lunhow additional trading chips from that stocked pipeline to fill other needs on the team.

[pots]

Astros Fielding Interest In Numerous Key Players, Including George Springer

That would have to be one sweet haul.  Springer has 5 years of club control including at least one year pre-arbitration

[Jacksonian]

Astros Fielding Interest In Numerous Key Players, Including George Springer

That would have to be one sweet haul.  Springer has 5 years of club control including at least one year pre-arbitration

Well, it makes sense that other teams are calling about the Astros best players.  Of course it doesn't mean Luhnow isn't laughing after hanging up the phone.

[JimR]

I tend to agree.  A proven 4-5 starter (that pokes up to a 2-3 starter for periods each year) and runs out a 3.50 ERA and keeps the ball in the park is a useful part of most playoff-caliber teams.  The $15m per year (my total WAG on what he'd likely receive) seems steep considering what is in the pipeline but I'd wager Kazmir would equal more AIS (and other tangible benefits such as vet leadership to younger emerging pitchers and a + on team chemistry).  That, plus, if he is signed for 2-3 years, that gives Lunhow additional trading chips from that stocked pipeline to fill other needs on the team.

McCullers gave him credit last season for mentoring him.

[pots]

Well, it makes sense that other teams are calling about the Astros best players.  Of course it doesn't mean Luhnow isn't laughing after hanging up the phone.

Same article mentions Carlos Carrasco.  That's something that likely would require a Springer to jar loose.  But then you leave a gaping hole in the outfield.  But last check Gordon and Chris Davis are still available. 

You install Chris Davis in left, move Rasmus to right and a starting rotation of:
Keuchel
Carrasco
McCullers
McHugh
Fiers/Feldman

Flip Velasquez for Miller, sign Sipp and you are sitting pretty. 

And what the heck if I'm spending all of Crane's money get both Gordon and Chris Davis.
Altuve - R
Gordon - L
Correa - R
Davis - L
Gomez - R
Rasmus - L
White (trade Gattis to save a buck) - R
Valbueana/Gonzalez - L/S
Castro - L

That's an amazing line up., kick ass rotation and a solid bullpen

[toddthebod]

Has anyone heard if the Astros have any interest in Seung-Hwan Oh, who is an international free agent.  How much would it cost to bring a 33 year old Japanese closer.  He does have the best nickname -- "the final boss".

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/11/seung-hwan-oh-free-agent.html

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Has anyone heard if the Astros have any interest in Seung-Hwan Oh, who is an international free agent.  How much would it cost to bring a 33 year old Japanese closer.  He does have the best nickname -- "the final boss".

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/11/seung-hwan-oh-free-agent.html

Well, there was this.  Killer nickname, though.

[pots]

Yikes, not sure why this just makes me nervous


CSNPhilly.com’s Jim Salisbury: Hearing talks between Phillies and Astros on Ken Giles are heating up.

[pots]

CSNPhilly.com’s Jim Salisbury:  Phillies media session pushed back. Sign of something coming? Sources say talks w Astros on Giles are hot

Jayson Stark: Hearing the same. One name who won't be in any deal is Lance McCullers. Astros seem dug in on not moving him

[moriartp]

Stark also says the Phillies want pitching and more pitching.

I assume one of Appel or VV would be the centerpiece.

[pots]

Stark also says the Phillies want pitching and more pitching.

I assume one of Appel or VV would be the centerpiece.

With the price of closers right now that will likely be AND

[Ebby Calvin]

Giles is under control for several years, right?

[BUWebguy]

Giles is under control for several years, right?

Yep; BBRef says arbitration eligible in 2018, free agency in 2021.

[juliogotay]

With the price of closers right now that will likely be AND

That would seem like way overpaying to me.

[pots]

That would seem like way overpaying to me.

Phillies have been said to be looking for 2 or 3 high ceiling prospects.  Highly doubt just one of VV and Appel will close the deal. 

[JimR]

That would seem like way overpaying to me.

do you want a flame throwing closer or not?

[Jacksonian]

Phillies have been said to be looking for 2 or 3 high ceiling prospects.  Highly doubt just one of VV and Appel will close the deal.

I've heard nothing that says Giles is worth that much.  Any deal for Giles is based on hope not track record.

[VirtualBob]

do you want a flame throwing closer or not?

My only concern is that VV seems like a candidate for flame throwing closer.

[VirtualBob]

I've heard nothing that says Giles is worth that much.  Any deal for Giles is based on hope not track record.

Exactly. And VV has almost as much of the former and not that much less of the latter.

[Jacksonian]

My only concern is that VV seems like a candidate for flame throwing closer.

I was thinking Feliz but who knows.

[das]

do you want a flame throwing closer or not?

Yes, but...  What is the typical shelf life of young guns throwing 100mph?  Giles has 2 years on the odometer. Perennial heaters like Wagner and Chapman are the exception. I wonder if VV would have any interest in making the transition to closer if the Giles thing does not work out.

Edited to add: get outa my head, VB...

[BudGirl]

do you want a flame throwing closer or not?

I want one that makes out.  Hoffman wasn't a flame thrower, was he?

[JimR]

Luhnow was a hard thrower.

I was NOT supporting VV and Appel. I was saying we will have to give up someone we hate to give up.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

Luhnow was a hard thrower.

I was NOT supporting VV and Appel. I was saying we will have to give up someone we hate to give up.

I just get more and more conservative the closer these things get. At the mere mention of Springer's name in trade talks I want to hold myself and rock and cry like a baby. There's tons of gas in the farm. Let's build our own bad ass closer.

[mrpink]

I want one that makes out. 

Like a swingman?

[WVastro]

Stark reporting that the deal centers around VV and "two prospects" for Giles. The trade market seems pretty overly favorable to rebuilding teams this year but depending on the two prospects this deal might be decent.

[Reuben]

From Rosenthal:
Sources: #Astros continue to work on deal for #Phillies’ Giles and much more. Looking at SPs, RPs, hitters - the full gamut.

Drellich also tweeted that they're looking at Yovani Gallardo, who's a free agent.

[mrpink]

Please no on Gallardo.

[juliogotay]

Justice was just on MLBnetwork on he thought a deal on Giles to Houston could happen very soon. He also added Houston is still on Kazmir.

[Nate Colbert]

Philly beat writer says Oberholtzer may be part of Giles deal.

[BlownRanger]

Exactly. And VV has almost as much of the former [hope] and not that much less of the latter [track record].

Unless I'm looking at stats on a different Ken Giles, I'm a little confused by the suggestion that Giles hasn't proven much more than VElazquez at the big league level.  Giles has had two excellent seasons and appears to be a stud who would be under club control for several years.

[WVastro]

Unless I'm looking at stats on a different Ken Giles, I'm a little confused by the suggestion that Giles hasn't proven much more than VElazquez at the big league level.  Giles has had two excellent seasons and appears to be a stud who would be under club control for several years.

If Velazquez were to reach a Giles ceiling next season I'd be thrilled. Giles is a very good late inning arm. It's not like there's a ton of room in the rotation right now seeing as The Astros are looking at Kazmir or Gallardo. Vince would need to make it in the pen. Depending on the third piece from Houston.....

[HudsonHawk]

Philly beat writer says Oberholtzer may be part of Giles deal.

I'm all for getting whatever you can for Oberholtzer. If he makes a deal happen, pull the trigger.

[Jacksonian]

Unless I'm looking at stats on a different Ken Giles, I'm a little confused by the suggestion that Giles hasn't proven much more than VElazquez at the big league level.  Giles has had two excellent seasons and appears to be a stud who would be under club control for several years.

Is that the same Giles who was just 15 out of 20 on save opportunities last season?

[Jacksonian]

Please no on Gallardo.

Did Gallardo reject a qualifying offer?

[Nate Colbert]

Philly writer again:

Jim Salisbury ‏@JSalisburyCSN  4 minutes ago
Source on Giles to Houston trade: "It's close but not done."

[Nate Colbert]

Did Gallardo reject a qualifying offer?

Yes.

[Jacksonian]

Yes.

Then it's unlikely Luhnow goes after him.

[WVastro]

Is that the same Giles who was just 15 out of 20 on save opportunities last season?

It's also the same Giles who had 40% of his runs allowed last season be of the unearned variety on a 99 loss team. Anybody here seen him pitch regularly?

[Reuben]

Is that the same Giles who was just 15 out of 20 on save opportunities last season?

He was the setup man before they traded Papelbon. Setup guys blow saves but never earn saves. Apples/oranges.

[Jacksonian]

He was the setup man before they traded Papelbon. Setup guys blow saves but never earn saves. Apples/oranges.

I'm not a fan of rolling some big dice on a guy who has 1/2 a season of closer duties on an awful team as his major league experience.

I'm not saying I wouldn't get him but is he really worth a guy like VV plus more talent.  VV's proven he can get outs for a contending team.  But at the same time I'm with HH dumping Oberholtzer would be good.

[Nate Colbert]

Berman says "Brian" Fisher 3rd name in deal along w/VV and Obie. Derek?

ETA:

Mark Berman ‏@MarkBermanFox26  18 seconds ago
Correction on the #Astros trade with Phillies for Ken Giles includes pitcher Derek Fisher from MLB sources.

Got the position wrong.

[hostros7]

If Berman proclaims it, then it is so.


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[doyce7]

Deal is official pending physicals. According to mctaggart it is VV and Obie plus minor leaguer

[Uncle Charlie]

Would have loved to see VV mature in an Astros unit but excited to see 5 years of Giles. Astros now have one helluva pen and someone to slam the door.

[Jacksonian]

Deal is official pending physicals. According to mctaggart it is VV and Obie plus minor leaguer

That's a lot less than they'd have to give up for Miller or Boxberger.

[Uncle Charlie]

That's a lot less than they'd have to give up for Miller or Boxberger.

...and less expensive monetarily.

[Nate Colbert]

Philly writers saying it's a four for one deal w/one additional pitcher.

[pots]

Sounds like a good deal if the 4th player is nobody.  Adds a closer and no extra money.

[Nate Colbert]

Jayson Stark ‏@jaysonst  43 seconds ago
Just talked to an AL exec who thinks that if the Phillies shift Vincent Velazquez to the bullpen, he could be "just as good as (Ken) Giles".

[Fredia]

on astros site

[juliogotay]

Sounds like a good deal if the 4th player is nobody.  Adds a closer and no extra money.

Fisher may turn out to be a pretty good OFer but I think he'll be limited to LF.
Luhnow is thinning out the OF core from the MiLs. If Gomez and Rasmus are both gone after this season he is going to have to bring some talent into the organization.

[VirtualBob]

Jayson Stark ‏@jaysonst  43 seconds ago
Just talked to an AL exec who thinks that if the Phillies shift Vincent Velazquez to the bullpen, he could be "just as good as (Ken) Giles".

Exactly my thoughts.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Exactly my thoughts.

+1

[roadrunner]

Fisher may turn out to be a pretty good OFer but I think he'll be limited to LF.
Luhnow is thinning out the OF core from the MiLs. If Gomez and Rasmus are both gone after this season he is going to have to bring some talent into the organization.

P-Tuck, K-Tuck, Daz, Maris, Kemp

And Springer of course.   Not too concerned at the moment.

[roadrunner]

Exactly my thoughts.

Giles was really really good last year.  Look at the numbers.  I like VV, but I would be shocked if he is that good next year.

[hostros7]

@darenw: Here's another fun one... #Astros have thrown 29 pitches 99 MPH+ since 2008. Ken Giles did it 37 times last year.


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[Uncle Charlie]

Sidebar, but this takes the 40-man down to 36. Assuming a lefty RP and SP FA signing / allocation, that leaves 2 more spots. Would they take someone in the rule 5? Who do the other spots go to? Do they leave one open in case a youngster makes a push in ST for a starting spot?

[Jacksonian]

P-Tuck, K-Tuck, Daz, Maris, Kemp

And Springer of course.   Not too concerned at the moment.

An off injured right fielder, 2 children, a rookie with mediocre defense, and a AAA player.  I trust Luhnow to make sure they have the talent necessary.

[hostros7]

P-Tuck, K-Tuck, Daz, Maris, Kemp

And Springer of course.   Not too concerned at the moment.

Something to keep in mind is that if the Astros find players who can consistently produce at the plate from 1B and or 3B, whether it be Reed, Singleton, White, Moran or anyone else, it's easier to plug Jake into CF every day and any value he creates at the plate is gravy. Would be awesome if that's the situation the team is facing after this season.  It's a luxury to have silver slugger caliber hitters at SS and 2B, which also provides a great deal of flexibility.


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[WVastro]

I'm sure there will be hand wringing about this trade but I think it makes the 2016 opening day roster better. I'm ready for more of that.

[ValpoCory]

Is that the same Giles who was just 15 out of 20 on save opportunities last season?

3 of those blown saves came as a setup guy, so he was really 15 out of 17 in save opportunities. 

Side note ... both his blown saves as a closer came in the season's last two weeks against the Marlins, so in relatively meaningless games for both teams.  Hopefully he won't be pitching in too many of those next year.


ETA:  Reuben beat me to it.   My bad.

[ValpoCory]

I'm sure there will be hand wringing about this trade but I think it makes the 2016 opening day roster better. I'm ready for more of that.

Agreed.  Can't wait to see how he adjusts to the AL.  But a high strikeout pitcher who has only given up 3 HR in over 115 IP is a nice pickup.

[doyce7]

Thomas eshelman is being pegged as the final piece of the trade according to drellich

[JimR]

VV has a great arm but he struggled to put hitters away. You hand wringers want to trade our nothing for their something. I trust the plan.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

It sure makes opening day roster better. I'm curious to see how VV evolves, I think he has potential to be a good closer but I trust that the Astros "Brain Trust" have seen enough of the data and the mound work to determine that Giles is the better option going forward. No hand wringing here.

[mrpink]

Thomas eshelman is being pegged as the final piece of the trade according to drellich

I'm disappointed it's Eshelman.  I was really looking forward to seeing how he would fare this year and how long it would take him to get called up, but I guess he was expendable considering how many rotation options we have already.

[moriartp]

The bullpen is looking good. Giles, Gregerson, Neshek, Harris, Fields... maybe throw in Feliz and bring back Sipp and hey baby, you got a stew goin'.

[JimR]

He probably wants more than one LHP in the pen. Every time there is a name in a trade, someone is disappointed. I am glad we have such a deep system and Luhnow drafting each year. We can absorb the loss of VV and not notice it much. The folks who count had seen enough of him to determine if he was expendable in order to obtain a missing piece for the team. I trust their evaluation and judgment.

[mrpink]

He probably wants more than one LHP in the pen.

Internal lefty options:
Kevin Chapman - I used to loathe this guy, but he really seems to be improving
Reymin Guduan - struggled at Corpus but throws 100
Chris Cotton - smaller than Wesley Wright but has done nothing but impress through AA

That's pretty thin, I bet they grab someone a la Thatcher before spring training even if they resign Sipp (which I really hope they do).

[Jacksonian]

I'm disappointed it's Eshelman.  I was really looking forward to seeing how he would fare this year and how long it would take him to get called up, but I guess he was expendable considering how many rotation options we have already.

Soft-tossing righthanders are commonplace.  Losing him doesn't bother me at all.

[toddthebod]

I'm not upset at all about the names that went to Philly.  My only concern is that by trading 4 players (and presumably, the Astros are going to lose more in the draft today), the Astros will not have sufficient players to trade mid-season if we need to pick someone up without "mortgaging the future."  This trade does thin the system.

Plus, we now need a starting pitcher.  With Feldman being a question mark coming back from injury, the 4-5 slots in the rotation are potentially left to Appel, Fiers, Wojo, Straily, and Peacock. 

[Fredia]

none of which seem to rise to the occassion

[Jacksonian]

I'm not upset at all about the names that went to Philly.  My only concern is that by trading 4 players (and presumably, the Astros are going to lose more in the draft today), the Astros will not have sufficient players to trade mid-season if we need to pick someone up without "mortgaging the future."  This trade does thin the system.

Plus, we now need a starting pitcher.  With Feldman being a question mark coming back from injury, the 4-5 slots in the rotation are potentially left to Appel, Fiers, Wojo, Straily, and Peacock.

I'm expecting to see Kazmir back.

[pots]

I'm not upset at all about the names that went to Philly.  My only concern is that by trading 4 players (and presumably, the Astros are going to lose more in the draft today), the Astros will not have sufficient players to trade mid-season if we need to pick someone up without "mortgaging the future."  This trade does thin the system.

Plus, we now need a starting pitcher.  With Feldman being a question mark coming back from injury, the 4-5 slots in the rotation are potentially left to Appel, Fiers, Wojo, Straily, and Peacock.

At this point Fiers has locked up a spot.  I'd say it's more like Appel, Wojo, Straily, Peacock and Feliz fighting for the 5th spot until Feldman is ready.

Not excited about Kazmir.  Really fell off when they needed him the most and didn't exactly hit an extra level when it came to his postseason start.  Just hate to think we'd be stuck with him at 15 mil per year getting 4-5th starter results.  Now if he comes closer to Feldman salary then I'd jump on it. 

[mrpink]

Plus, we now need a starting pitcher.  With Feldman being a question mark coming back from injury, the 4-5 slots in the rotation are potentially left to Appel, Fiers, Wojo, Straily, and Peacock.

Drellich reported that Feldman has resumed his normal offseason routine.  I think there's a decent amount of depth there, especially if they resign Kazmir.  I think Rodgers, Hauschild, and Buchanan could be candidates as well, and of course Feliz as pots mentioned.

[pots]

Round 1 of Rule 5 draft over and the Astros went unscathed.  Can add Devenski to the backup pool of Feldman.  Though he probably needs to stew in AAA for a while first

[pots]

Brian McTaggart:
Sipp deal could be announced tomorrow

Source: Astros have reached a deal with left-handed pitcher Tony Sipp to return to the bullpen, pending physical.

Drellich:
Tony Sipp could have deal soon as today. Closing in. Expected to be Astros, & if so, they have definite upgrade w Sipp back & Giles added

Tony Sipp has an agreement with the Astros on a three year deal. Big, important move.

[pots]

Astros take Octavio Acosta, RHP from Mets' Double-A roster (Minor league portion of Rule 5 draft)

[mrpink]

Brian McTaggart:
Sipp deal could be announced tomorrow

Source: Astros have reached a deal with left-handed pitcher Tony Sipp to return to the bullpen, pending physical.

Drellich:
Tony Sipp could have deal soon as today. Closing in. Expected to be Astros, & if so, they have definite upgrade w Sipp back & Giles added

Tony Sipp has an agreement with the Astros on a three year deal. Big, important move.

Great news!

[Reuben]

Round 1 of Rule 5 draft over and the Astros went unscathed.  Can add Devenski to the backup pool of Feldman.  Though he probably needs to stew in AAA for a while first

Outstanding news. And now with Sipp re-signed, an all-around excellent 16 hours or so for the Astros.

[pots]

Sipp got paid.

Source: Sipp with #Astros is three years, $18M.

[Fredia]

good news made it to check...now hope to get to check mate

[toddthebod]

Really glad to hear about Sipp.  This is a very solid bullpen -- especially if Harris can continue off what he was doing until basically the end of the season.

I really don't want Kazmir back.  I don't think he showed very much after his first couple of starts with the Astros. 

[Jacksonian]

Astros take Octavio Acosta, RHP from Mets' Double-A roster (Minor league portion of Rule 5 draft)

Not a single Astros farmhand picked in any phase of the draft.

[mrpink]

Sipp got paid.

Source: Sipp with #Astros is three years, $18M.

To put that in perspective, it's only 20% more than Brandon Lyon got 6 years ago.  That's less of an increase than the average MLB salary over that time.

[Duman]

I will gladly take limited proven production over could be production.  I like the trade. 

I also don't worry about the depth. We had the top farm system in depth during the years we were loosing 100 games.  You can't have both a stacked farm and top production in the majors.  I will "settle" for competing for a world series and a top 15 farm system.

[JimR]

I want Kazmir back if Luhnow likes the contract numbers.

He pitched very well in Game 2. That loss was Royals' magic.

[BlownRanger]

I want Kazmir back if Luhnow likes the contract numbers.

He pitched very well in Game 2. That loss was Royals' magic.

I think there are two ways to look at Kazmir.  I believe he's had a history of good first halves and poor second halves.  That would portend good things through July.  Then there's the fact that he's a flyball pitcher who does better in large parks - like KC in Game 2 and Oakland for the first half last season.

[pots]

He probably wants more than one LHP in the pen.

At this point I don't see why Chapman is not your second lefty out of the pen.  He's dominated lefties at all levels. 

[MusicMan]

Sipp was DFA'd 2 years ago and just got $18M guaranteed.

Mommas, make your babies grow up left handed.


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[JimR]

Is Luhnow through or is he still shopping?

[Jacksonian]

Is Luhnow through or is he still shopping?

IIRC he's still looking for a starting pitcher and a corner infielder.

[hostros7]

Is Luhnow through or is he still shopping?

Brian McTaggart ⚾️ ‏@brianmctaggart  19h19 hours ago
Astros have turned their attention to starting pitching now.

[astrosfan76]

That's a lot less than they'd have to give up for Miller or Boxberger.

Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS 1h1 hour ago

Astros had talked to yanks about miller, but nyy seeks big SP (mccullers type). Houston solved closer with Giles deal now.

As disappointed as I was to see VV go in a trade for Giles, the alternative was worse.  I like Miller, but not at the cost of McCullers.

[astrosfan76]

Please no on Gallardo.

Why?

[WVastro]

Reports are that Jason Heyward has a 200 million dollar offer on he table.

Wtf

[moriartp]

Reports are that Jason Heyward has a 200 million dollar offer on he table.

Wtf

He's really good.

[Reuben]

Reports are that Jason Heyward has a 200 million dollar offer on he table.

Wtf

Just like those reports that Ben Zobrist had a 4-year, $80m offer on the table? Or that samarzjdja had a $100m offer?

[mrpink]

Why?

He was incredibly lucky last year.  In the first half (ERA = 2.62) he was able to keep the ball in the park, but couldn't continue the trend in the second half (ERA = 4.69).  He's basically a fastball/slider guy now with a 90MPH fastball.  No thanks, I'd rather see Feliz or Straily get a shot...and he's got Ranger taint all over him. 

[hostros7]

and he's got Ranger taint all over him.

Particularly in his chin region.

[Jacksonian]

Why?

I can't imagine Luhnow thinks he's worth giving up his first round pick this year.

[HudsonHawk]

I want Kazmir back if Luhnow likes the contract numbers.

He pitched very well in Game 2. That loss was Royals' magic.

My problem with Kazmir is he seemed to be running on fumes the last half of the season. And he ain't getting any younger. I'm not against bringing him back for a shot, if the numbers work, but I don't think he should be any sort of priority, nor should the Astros be counting on him.

[Mr. Happy]

My problem with Kazmir is he seemed to be running on fumes the last half of the season. And he ain't getting any younger. I'm not against bringing him back for a shot, if the numbers work, but I don't think he should be any sort of priority, nor should the Astros be counting on him.

If Kazmir can pitch like he did in the first half, he'd be a welcome addition. However, his second halves concern me. If the numbers work, then bring him back, but if they don't, i won't cry about it.

[juliogotay]

My problem with Kazmir is he seemed to be running on fumes the last half of the season. And he ain't getting any younger. I'm not against bringing him back for a shot, if the numbers work, but I don't think he should be any sort of priority, nor should the Astros be counting on him.

I think the same. I was really excited about getting him and he was outstanding for two games. And then not so much. I remember he pitched his ass off in his second start, in KC I believe, and it was really hot and he labored and battled out there and I wondered if that didn't take the starch out of him.

[astrosfan76]

He was incredibly lucky last year.  In the first half (ERA = 2.62) he was able to keep the ball in the park, but couldn't continue the trend in the second half (ERA = 4.69).  He's basically a fastball/slider guy now with a 90MPH fastball.  No thanks, I'd rather see Feliz or Straily get a shot...and he's got Ranger taint all over him.

So did/do Nolan, Pudge, El Caballo, and a slew of other players/execs we've had over the years.

His second half ERA was largely fueled by a 3 start string in late July and a couple of bad outings in September.  Did he make mechanical adjustments after those starts in July?  I don't know, but his ERA was under 2 in August.  He's had seasons where his ERA was better in the first half, he's had seasons where it was better in the second half. 

I'm not saying we should break the bank for him (though that seems like a relative term this offseason), but there is value in a 29-year old pitcher who you can count on to give you 190 innings of mid-3 ERA baseball. 

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I like Gallardo, and Kazmir, but $14 to $15 million per year just seems like a lot of money, to me anyway, for a number 4 or 5 starter. Is that what it has come to? They wont pitch for $9 or $10 million per? At least with Kazmir there is no loss of draft pick.

[hostros7]

I like Gallardo, and Kazmir, but $14 to $15 million per year just seems like a lot of money, to me anyway, for a number 4 or 5 starter. Is that what it has come to? They wont pitch for $9 or $10 million per? At least with Kazmir there is no loss of draft pick.

Scott Feldman makes $10mm per, and the contract was signed in a slightly less frothy FA environment. Pitching is esspensive.


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[jbm]

So did/do Nolan, Pudge, El Caballo, and a slew of other players/execs we've had over the years.

His second half ERA was largely fueled by a 3 start string in late July and a couple of bad outings in September.  Did he make mechanical adjustments after those starts in July?  I don't know, but his ERA was under 2 in August.  He's had seasons where his ERA was better in the first half, he's had seasons where it was better in the second half. 

I'm not saying we should break the bank for him (though that seems like a relative term this offseason), but there is value in a 29-year old pitcher who you can count on to give you 190 innings of mid-3 ERA baseball.

Agreed.  I was surprised at his performance last year, but that level of production sure helped the Rangers.

[JimR]

I like Gallardo, and Kazmir, but $14 to $15 million per year just seems like a lot of money, to me anyway, for a number 4 or 5 starter. Is that what it has come to? They wont pitch for $9 or $10 million per? At least with Kazmir there is no loss of draft pick.

not your money.
trust Luhnow.

[Fredia]

working well so far ...agreed

[pots]

not your money.
trust Luhnow.

The money comments are more of an expected constraint that will effect the team should too much be paid to the wrong people.  So from a fan discussion perspective, I don't see where it is out of line to discuss when fans discuss a potential signing.

[Reuben]

I like Gallardo, and Kazmir, but $14 to $15 million per year just seems like a lot of money, to me anyway, for a number 4 or 5 starter. Is that what it has come to? They wont pitch for $9 or $10 million per? At least with Kazmir there is no loss of draft pick.

Kazmir and Gallardo are both solid #3 starters, in my opinion. Certainly nowhere near #5 level. You could even argue Kazmir has pitched like a #2 the last couple years.

That said, I think McHugh and McCullers give the Astros two pitchers of that caliber to go behind Keuchel. And Fiers is probably on that #3/4 bubble. I don't see the point in adding another SP, assuming Feldman is healthy enough to be the 5th starter. Unless you're talking about a legit #2 type guy.

[JimR]

The money comments are more of an expected constraint that will effect the team should too much be paid to the wrong people.  So from a fan discussion perspective, I don't see where it is out of line to discuss when fans discuss a potential signing.

affect?

wasted time. the team hires professionals to make those decisions.

[Mike S.]

Kazmir and Gallardo are both solid #3 starters, in my opinion. Certainly nowhere near #5 level. You could even argue Kazmir has pitched like a #2 the last couple years.

That said, I think McHugh and McCullers give the Astros two pitchers of that caliber to go behind Keuchel. And Fiers is probably on that #3/4 bubble. I don't see the point in adding another SP, assuming Feldman is healthy enough to be the 5th starter. Unless you're talking about a legit #2 type guy.

That's who I thought Shelby Miller could be for this team, but that trade was effing ridiculous and and I'm glad the Astros had no part in it.

[VirtualBob]

The money comments are more of an expected constraint that will effect the team should too much be paid to the wrong people.  So from a fan discussion perspective, I don't see where it is out of line to discuss when fans discuss a potential signing.

Right. Especially since Luhnow et al have Absolutely No Clue about how spending too much in one area might limit their options somewhere else.

[JimR]

Right. Especially since Luhnow et al have Absolutely No Clue about how spending too much in one area might limit their options somewhere else.

right. fans need to ride herd on these decisions.

[Nate Colbert]

Certainly has been an entertaining day to be following the @BestFansStLouis twitter feed.

Also disturbing--lotsa racist, homophobic shit.

[JimR]

Certainly has been an entertaining day to be following the @BestFansStLouis twitter feed.

Also disturbing--lotsa racist, homophobic shit.

good grief

[moriartp]

A BFiB mentioned somewhere (maybe in a fangraphs chat or something else I was reading to pass the time at work) that STL had an advantage because Heyward understood, after playing there, "what it means to be a Cardinal."

I'm going to assume the guy who said it is one of the clowns featured in the link above.

[Fredia]

well he wants give him the bird please

[hostros7]

A BFiB mentioned somewhere (maybe in a fangraphs chat or something else I was reading to pass the time at work) that STL had an advantage because Heyward understood, after playing there, "what it means to be a Cardinal."

I'm going to assume the guy who said it is one of the clowns featured in the link above.

BFIB heads will blow when they read this:

@Ken_Rosenthal: Sources: #Nationals bid $200M for Heyward. Another team, believed to be #STLCards, also was at $200M. Heyward took less to play for #Cubs.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

right. fans need to ride herd on these decisions.

Sure, but it's okay to ponder.

[Nate Colbert]

BFIB heads will blow when they read this:

@Ken_Rosenthal: Sources: #Nationals bid $200M for Heyward. Another team, believed to be #STLCards, also was at $200M. Heyward took less to play for #Cubs.

Oh that is hilarious...

[EasTexAstro]

Right. Especially since Luhnow et al have Absolutely No Clue about how spending too much in one area might limit their options somewhere else.

Would it give fans a clue as to where the FO might see their internal priorities?

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Right. Especially since Luhnow et al have Absolutely No Clue about how spending too much in one area might limit their options somewhere else.

YOU SHOULD HAVE TYPED IT IN ALL CAPS TOO.

[pots]

Right. Especially since Luhnow et al have Absolutely No Clue about how spending too much in one area might limit their options somewhere else.

No one is saying that.  Some people actually find it fun to talk about what players are worth and which ones might be good fits for the Astros.  I don't think anyone expects their discussions to affect any decision.  Nor do they feel they know more than Luhnow. 

[Reuben]

No one is saying that.  Some people actually find it fun to talk about what players are worth and which ones might be good fits for the Astros.  I don't think anyone expects their discussions to affect any decision.  Nor do they feel they know more than Luhnow.

Agreed.

[Ron Brand]

Now it's Giles and Jonathan Arauz for Appel, Harold Arauz, Eshelman, Velasquez and Obie.

[Navin R Johnson]

Now it's Giles and Jonathan Arauz for Appel, Harold Arauz, Eshelman, Velasquez and Obie.

That seems like an awful lot to give up.  VV & Appel?   I guess the Astros were as down on Appel as many of the fans were, despite them trying to tell everyone he was fine...

[JimR]

Someone explain the changes, please.

ETA we got Fisher back and a Phillies infielder for Appel and some guy with the same name.

Not interested in second-guessing. Just want to know about the players.

[Navin R Johnson]

Alyson Footer ‏@alysonfooter 3m3 minutes ago
I’ve never been a true believer in Appel being a ML starter so to be honest at this point I think it’s better that they hung onto Fisher.

[Navin R Johnson]

 Jayson Stark ‏@jaysonst 2m2 minutes ago
Inside the industry, Appel is no longer viewed as a future star. But I like the idea of adding him as an intriguing rotation option

[Bench]

Someone explain the changes, please.

Add two Arauzes and swap Appel for Fisher.

Are the Arauzes related or is it just coincidence?

[Navin R Johnson]

So like many of us thought, Appel was trending towards bust.  His numbers sure said that.  Luhnow has been blowing smoke about Appel the last year hoping to keep his trade value up.  Appears nobody was buying it, now he is a throw in on a deal to get a relief pitcher.   

[hostros7]

@Ken_Rosenthal: #Phillies get RHP Harold Arauz, 20, in Giles trade, #Astros get IF Jonathan Arauz, 17. HOU views its Arauz as legit, toolsy SS who can hit.


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[VirtualBob]

YOU SHOULD HAVE TYPED IT IN ALL CAPS TOO.

I was showing restraint.

[hostros7]

So like many of us thought, Appel was trending towards bust.  His numbers sure said that.  Luhnow has been blowing smoke about Appel the last year hoping to keep his trade value up.  Appears nobody was buying it, now he is a throw in on a deal to get a relief pitcher.

If there is a reason for the masses to bitch, it's that the Astros drafted Appel over Bryant, who would now be a perfect fit on this club, whereas Appel, as you said, is a throw in. Hindsight is always 20-20 though, and it's better to focus on the management's entire body of work, which has been strong.

Let's hope the club is ready to back up the Brinks for Dallas because the organization pitching depth has been depleted over the last year.


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[JimR]

@Ken_Rosenthal: #Phillies get RHP Harold Arauz, 20, in Giles trade, #Astros get IF Jonathan Arauz, 17. HOU views its Arauz as legit, toolsy SS who can hit.


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and we keep Fisher. Appel for Fisher, and same names for each other.

[VirtualBob]

Let's hope the club is ready to back up the Brinks for Dallas because the organization pitching depth has been depleted over the last year week.

Fixed.



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[VirtualBob]

and we keep Fisher. Appel for Fisher, and same names for each other.

I like Fisher, and it looks like we may have gotten the better of the Arauz swap too.

[JimR]

If there is a reason for the masses to bitch, it's that the Astros drafted Appel over Bryant, who would now be a perfect fit on this club, whereas Appel, as you said, is a throw in. Hindsight is always 20-20 though, and it's better to focus on the management's entire body of work, which has been strong.

Let's hope the club is ready to back up the Brinks for Dallas because the organization pitching depth has been depleted over the last year.


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I have slept since then, but I do not remember wholesale bitching when we drafted Appel.

[moriartp]

Now-Astro-Arauz appears to be more highly regarded than now-Phillie-Arauz.

The FO has done pretty well with their low-level pickups (Martes, David Paulino). Fingers crossed that they managed another good snag here.

[Navin R Johnson]

Let's hope the club is ready to back up the Brinks for Dallas because the organization pitching depth has been depleted over the last year.

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Last 12 months the Astros have traded away, Velaquez, Appel, Tropeano, Foltynewicz, Mengden, Hader, & Houser.

[moriartp]

Last 12 months the Astros have traded away, Velaquez, Appel, Tropeano, Foltynewicz, Mengden, Hader, & Houser.

Thurman and Eshelman too, plus Junior Garcia in the Ollie Perez deal. That's a lot of talent to lose but I find it hard to argue that hard against any particular move.

[JimR]

Last 12 months the Astros have traded away, Velaquez, Appel, Tropeano, Foltynewicz, Mengden, Hader, & Houser.

This is the kind of stuff that drives me crazy. How did the big club do?

[Navin R Johnson]

I'm not saying it is bad thing, just pointing out how depth has been hit.  But  in most of those cases,  you needed to either move them or convert them to relievers, as there is no room in the current rotation.   Getting rid of AAA/MLB ready minor leaguers was sort of a must do.   Now lets hope the returns are good.

[Jose Cruz III]

If there is a reason for the masses to bitch, it's that the Astros drafted Appel over Bryant, who would now be a perfect fit on this club, whereas Appel, as you said, is a throw in. Hindsight is always 20-20 though, and it's better to focus on the management's entire body of work, which has been strong.

Let's hope the club is ready to back up the Brinks for Dallas because the organization pitching depth has been depleted over the last year.


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The left side of the infield with Correa and Bryant would be unreal. But Bryant has exceeded expectations to some degree and Appel has seemed to go backwards. Seemed like a good pick at the time. As Pat Dye used to say, hindsight is 50/50

[JimR]

I'm not saying it is bad thing, just pointing out how depth has been hit.  But  in most of those cases,  you needed to either move them or convert them to relievers, as there is no room in the current rotation.   Getting rid of AAA/MLB ready minor leaguers was sort of a must do.   Now lets hope the returns are good.

Agree

[juliogotay]

The SS coming back if 16, a switch-hitter with gap power, strong arm and good hands. Considered one of the top players in Panama.

McTaggert reporting the Phils had a problem with a physical of one of the incoming (had to Fisher).

[Reuben]

The SS coming back if 16, a switch-hitter with gap power, strong arm and good hands. Considered one of the top players in Panama.

McTaggert reporting the Phils had a problem with a physical of one of the incoming (had to Fisher).

You sure about the failed physical thing? I haven't seen that on McT's twitter.

[juliogotay]

You sure about the failed physical thing? I haven't seen that on McT's twitter.

3rd Paragraph. http://m.astros.mlb.com/news/article/159500100/astros-acquire-closer-ken-giles-from-phillies

[Reuben]

Interesting, thanks. Hope it's not a serious issue with Fisher.

Here's mlb pipeline's report on the new Arauz:

Arauz landed the largest bonus of any Panamanian during the 2014-15 international signing period, joining the Phillies for $600,000. They thought enough of his skills and maturity to send him to the United States for his pro debut at age 16 in 2015. The Astros also were impressed, enough to make sure they acquired him as part of the Ken Giles trade in December.

Philadelphia envisioned Aruaz developing into a Freddy Galvis-esque defender with a more potent bat, while Houston was thrilled to get him as a secondary piece in the Giles deal. He isn't flashy or fast, but he's quick and athletic enough to stay at shortstop after playing a lot of second base in 2015 in deference to $900,000 bonus baby Arquimedes Gamboa. A relatively polished defender for his age, Arauz has a strong arm and quality actions.

He also has some intriguing offensive upside. Arauz is a switch-hitter who already makes line-drive contact from both sides of the plate. He needs to get stronger but could develop into a 10-12 home-run threat once he matures physically.

[VirtualBob]

3rd Paragraph. http://m.astros.mlb.com/news/article/159500100/astros-acquire-closer-ken-giles-from-phillies

That says that concerns about "one of the players" caused the deal to be "augmented". It does not identify which player. And given that both Appel and VV have had so e injury problems, it is by no means certain that Fisher was the one with problems. The Phillies may just have wanted to increase their chances of a near-MLB-ready starter and willing to give up a top rookie league infielder to do so.

[WVastro]

This was a disappointing end to Appel's tenure with the Astro org. I'm happy about the Giles acquisition for sure but I remember being so excited when they drafted Appel. Just goes to show that hopefully the days of following the MiLB rosters closer than the parent club rosters are hopefully over.

[JimR]

This was a disappointing end to Appel's tenure with the Astro org. I'm happy about the Giles acquisition for sure but I remember being so excited when they drafted Appel. Just goes to show that hopefully the days of following the MiLB rosters closer than the parent club rosters are hopefully over.

You used hopefully twice in one sentence. Some sort of penalty will ensue.

[pots]

Well no more devising trades that include Appel.  Wonder what percentage of fan proposed trades included Appel over the last 2 years.  Got to be over half easily.

[WVastro]

You used hopefully twice in one sentence. Some sort of penalty will ensue.

Yikes! Scary thing is I read that over before posting. My 8 year old is writing better than daddy already. Thanks Rice U. !

[Mr. Happy]

Well no more devising trades that include Appel.  Wonder what percentage of fan proposed trades included Appel over the last 2 years.  Got to be over half easily.

When people with the club are even telling JdJO that they questioned Appel's intestinal fortitude, it was not a good sign. My only regret about this deal is that I hated to part with VV.

[Navin R Johnson]

When people with the club are even telling JdJO that they questioned Appel's intestinal fortitude, it was not a good sign.

For the last 2 years I have heard this a bunch from a current and a former Astros writer.   I think Luhnow and company did all they could publicly to try and prop up Appel.  Thus while the talking heads still ranked Appel as a top line prospect, nobody that was actually in baseball believed it.   Which is why at the end of the day, he ended up being a throw in on a trade.
 
Is there a place that someone with intestinal fortitude issues is less likely to succeed than Philly? At least now he doesn;t have the, #1 overall pick of his current org expectations on his shoulders.

[Fredia]

i know ball players are professional. i know it is a business. that said could they mess up the chemistry of the team and would that affect play.  i saw the comparability and the joyful dances.   it stands to reason that a working situation that works is better than one that there is little comfort and no happiness

[Reuben]

i know ball players are professional. i know it is a business. that said could they mess up the chemistry of the team and would that affect play.  i saw the comparability and the joyful dances.   it stands to reason that a working situation that works is better than one that there is little comfort and no happiness

What are you talking about?

[Mr. Happy]

What are you talking about?

Is this a rhetorical question? It's Fredia for crissakes!