HOF Voting 2015 Class

[Nate Colbert]

Time to make fun of the HOF voting.

First up, Garry Brown of the Springfield Republican posts his ballot. Does vote for Bagwell & Biggio (I believe he also voted for both the last 2 years). But no Randy Johnson, no Smoltz and not even a hometown vote for Pedro.

If you've forgotten, here's the full list of candidates this year.

The Golden Era Committee releases its voting results next Monday. The 10 candidates on that ballot are D. Allen, K. Boyer, Hodges, Bob Howsam, Kaat, Minoso, Oliva, B. Pierce, Tiant and Wills.

[subnuclear]

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell

I think the ballot has cleared up enough to get plenty of votes for Biggio and Bagwell.

[Uncle Charlie]

Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
Johnson
Martinez
Piazza
Raines
McGuire
Smoltz

[VirtualBob]

The Golden Era Committee releases its voting results next Monday. The 10 candidates on that ballot are D. Allen, K. Boyer, Hodges, Bob Howsam, Kaat, Minoso, Oliva, B. Pierce, Tiant and Wills.

I like this list better than the other one. Wills changed the game. Ken Boyer had the misfortune of being compared to Brooks. Kaat's omission has always stumped me. And cases could be made for Minoso, Hodges & Allen (at least).

Or maybe that's just my baseball card collection nostalgia talking.

[juliogotay]

I don't see a HOFer on that list. Some good players but not HOFers.

[Mr. Happy]

I don't see a HOFer on that list. Some good players but not HOFers.

I think that you're right, but my heart is pulling for Jim Kaat.

[Bench]

Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
Johnson
Pedro
Piazza
Raines
Trammell

[Nate Colbert]

Jack McCaffery of the Delaware County Daily Times: Biggio, no Bagwell. Also Bonds, Clemens, Johnson, Martinez, McGwire, Piazza, Smoltz and Trammell.

Says at least 17 guys on the ballot could be HOFers but only votes for 9 instead of maxing out at the full 10 (apparently his "write-in vote" for Rose was his 10th vote in his mind). Steroids obviously not the issue for him. Not saying he's not a HOFer but Trammell over Bagwell? Geez...

[Uncle Charlie]

Not saying he's not a HOFer but Trammell over Bagwell? Geez...

I am - I don't think Trammell is an HOF'er.  Very good player, but not a "great".

What I do hate about this season is how writers use it as a soap box.  This guys entire article about his vote revolves around how he thinks Sheffield is a loser - a "hate" piece.  He comments about how Sheffield made an "real error" to prove a point...so the guy includes Rose.  Anyone else see irony in that?

[geezerdonk]

It's the annual perversity one-upmanship contest.

[MusicMan]

I am - I don't think Trammell is an HOF'er.  Very good player, but not a "great".

Trammell was better than Larkin, who cruised into the HOF.

[VirtualBob]

Trammell was better than Larkin, who cruised into the HOF.

Exactly

[Mr. Happy]

Trammell was better than Larkin, who cruised into the HOF.

+1

[Nate Colbert]

Jay Dunn of The Trentonian: Biggio, not Bagwell. Picks the full 10: Bidge, Johnson, Martinez, Smoltz, McGriff, Lee Smith, Schilling, Garciaparra and Sheffield.

Dunn voted for Bagwell last year. In effect, dropped him (and Tim Raines) to vote for Garciaparra and Sheffield. Garciafuckinparra?

[Bench]

Jay Dunn of The Trentonian: Biggio, not Bagwell. Picks the full 10: Bidge, Johnson, Martinez, Smoltz, McGriff, Lee Smith, Schilling, Garciaparra and Sheffield.

Dunn voted for Bagwell last year. In effect, dropped him (and Tim Raines) to vote for Garciaparra and Sheffield. Garciafuckinparra?

And how do you vote for McGriff over Bagwell?  That's insane.

[BizidyDizidy]

It's the nicknames

[HudsonHawk]

Jack McCaffery of the Delaware County Daily Times: Biggio, no Bagwell. Also Bonds, Clemens, Johnson, Martinez, McGwire, Piazza, Smoltz and Trammell.

Says at least 17 guys on the ballot could be HOFers but only votes for 9 instead of maxing out at the full 10 (apparently his "write-in vote" for Rose was his 10th vote in his mind). Steroids obviously not the issue for him. Not saying he's not a HOFer but Trammell over Bagwell? Geez...

Anyone who wastes a vote on a player who is not eligible should be stripped of his voting privilege.  He obviously doesn't take it seriously. 

[HudsonHawk]

Jay Dunn of The Trentonian: Biggio, not Bagwell. Picks the full 10: Bidge, Johnson, Martinez, Smoltz, McGriff, Lee Smith, Schilling, Garciaparra and Sheffield.

Dunn voted for Bagwell last year. In effect, dropped him (and Tim Raines) to vote for Garciaparra and Sheffield. Garciafuckinparra?

How the fuck does John Smoltz get in the HOF without a ticket, let alone "breeze" his way in as a no-brainer as this guy claims?  He was great one year.  He was very good one year.  He doesn't even belong in the "Hall of Very Good".  If he was the only guy on the ballot, I can't imagine ever voting for him.  

And Garciaparra???  He was an everyday player for six seasons.  He was good, but hardly a HOF career. 

[BudGirl]

How the fuck does John Smoltz get in the HOF without a ticket, let alone "breeze" his way in as a no-brainer as this guy claims?  He was great one year.  He was very good one year.  He doesn't even belong in the "Hall of Very Good".  If he was the only guy on the ballot, I can't imagine ever voting for him. 

Just as there is the association of steroids I would assume there is an association with Greg Maddux.

[Nate Colbert]

Bill Ballou of the Worcester Telegram & Gazette: Bagwell, not Biggio. The minor league hockey writer (and sometime Red Sox reporter) has never voted for Biggio in the three years he's been on the ballot.

[austro]

Bill Ballou of the Worcester Telegram & Gazette: Bagwell, not Biggio. The minor league hockey writer (and sometime Red Sox reporter) has never voted for Biggio in the three years he's been on the ballot.

But he'll be all over Pedroia in 10 years or so.

[Nate Colbert]

Golden Age Committee vote: nada, zip, zilch.

Dick Allen and Tony Oliva were the closest to getting elected, each receiving 11 of the 16 committee votes (12 was necessary for election). Kaat missed by 2 votes, Wills by 3 and Minoso by 4.

[Nate Colbert]

Lynn Jennings of the Detroit News joins Buster Olney and announces he will be boycotting this year's HOF vote. Objecting to the 10-man limit, Mr. Jennings says:

Not after I personally wrote last January to the Baseball Writers Association of America leadership asking that we do away with the absurd 10-man limit and was basically ignored in terms of even cursory feedback.

Be interesting to have President Ortiz (who was Vice President at the time) go on the record with a response to the above.

Olney and Jennings' boycott hurts both Bagwell and Biggio*. Both voted for the Killer B's the last two years and presumably would have done so again. In particular, Biggio with his 2-vote miss last year shows how crucial single votes might be. The interesting question is how many other writers (who are likely to be Biggio/Bagwell voters) join their boycott because of their unhappiness over the the 10-man limit.

*though mitigated somewhat by the fact that the 75% threshold is based on votes cast.

[chuck]

What the fuck is wrong with these people?

[BizidyDizidy]

What the fuck is wrong with these people?

Did you miss the part where they elected Jose Ortiz as their president?

[HudsonHawk]

It's time the HOF restored a little sanity and dignity to their institution and strip these slapdicks of this privilege. Voting for the HOF should be an honor, something done with thought and respect. These clowns have turned it into a circle jerk.

[chuck]

They appear to think that the process is about them rather than the players.

[Mr. Happy]

They appear to think that the process is about them rather than the players.

And, we have a winner.

[ValpoCory]

Baseball Think Factory hasn't started their 2015 Hall of Fame Ballot Collecting Gizmo.  Of course, their final one last year had Bidge cruising in with 79.4% of the vote.  Clearly those who left Biggio off their ballots were more ashamed and didn't release their ballots.

[Nate Colbert]

A couple of tweets from Jayson Stark (ye shall follow him @jaysonst):

Baseball Writers Assn votes to recommend to Hall of Fame that voters be allowed to vote for up to 12 candidates instead of 10.

BBWAA HOF committee told members it got strong indications from Hall officials that they would not approve voting for unlimited candidates.

[Nate Colbert]

David Borges of the New Haven Register who primarily covers the UConn men's basketball team (he was last a MLB beat writer for all of three years back in 2004-2006) casts his first HOF ballot: No Bagwell, No Biggio. Voted for 8 players, including Schilling naturally.

Of Bagwell:

Sorry Connecticut folks, but the Xavier High and University of Hartford product doesn’t quite do it for me. A very good player for many years, but never must-see TV. A career .226 postseason hitter with two homers in 106 October at-bats. Not to diminish a terrific career, but not a Hall-of-Famer to me — and I couldn’t care less about his PED suspicions.

Of Biggio, his logic is specious particularly given the short-term nature of his baseball beat-writing career:

As for some others on the ballot: Craig Biggio had over 3,000 career hits, and I can’t remember a single one of them...

He twists himself into a pretzel with all the logical inconsistencies: big believer in "transcendent moments" but votes McGwire and not Sosa. Doesn't vote for Edgar Martinez because he was a DH but will vote for (of course, another Red Sox) David Ortiz.

[chuck]

When reporting on the HOF voting of the fuckwits among the association (of which there is no apparent lack) it is in my view important to include his or her contact information in the event that one would like to share one's thoughts.

[email protected]

[BudGirl]

When reporting on the HOF voting of the fuckwits among the association (of which there is no apparent lack) it is in my view important to include his or her contact information in the event that one would like to share one's thoughts.

[email protected]

I am assuming Biggio will miss again.  Why?  Because someone is either too lazy to look at the stats of the eligible players and will only vote for those he saw on ESPN and whining because he can only pick 10 players.  Bunch of freaking idiots.

[BudGirl]

When reporting on the HOF voting of the fuckwits among the association (of which there is no apparent lack) it is in my view important to include his or her contact information in the event that one would like to share one's thoughts.

[email protected]

He will respond if you email him.

[HudsonHawk]

He will respond if you email him.

Even if you address it "Dear Witless Fucktard..."?

[BudGirl]

Even if you address it "Dear Witless Fucktard..."?

No, I was trying to be cordial.  I did call him a liar, but he did admit to lying.  He wrote one thing in his article and then told me something different in response to my email.  He's an idiot and I do believe I would tell him to his face, but I just don't have the time to go to CT.

[HudsonHawk]

No, I was trying to be cordial.  I did call him a liar, but he did admit to lying.  He wrote one thing in his article and then told me something different in response to my email.  He's an idiot and I do believe I would tell him to his face, but I just don't have the time to go to CT.

We could do a Christmas Vacation thing and get Cousin Eddie to drag him to your house so you can tell him in person.

[BudGirl]

We could do a Christmas Vacation thing and get Cousin Eddie to drag him to your house so you can tell him in person.

Do it.  He's an idiot.

Here's his response to me. 

I did plenty of research for my vote. In fact, I've been thinking about who I'd vote for for the past five years, at least. My point was that I didn't scour statistics for hours on end, comparing one player to another, because when you do that, you can often find certain stats that could justify a guy being a Hall of Famer. Bagwell had a terrific career, but my threshold for the Hall of Fame is a little bit higher.

As for the Biggio line, I was running out of space in the column and basically jammed my reasoning for my non-votes for six or seven guys in one paragraph. I could have gone on much longer about Biggio, and how he was never a great player but just a very good one who compiled a lot of hits over a lot of years (which is to be commended, but doesn't say "Hall of Fame" to me). Or that he  never did much in the postseason either. Again, not to diminish him as a player. But in my eyes, not a HoFer.

If a player has certain stats that justify him being a Hall of Famer, then shouldn't he be one?

And his comment about Biggio, really???  He seems to think Biggio only had 3,000 hits.

I don't know why this idiot prompted me to engage when I normally do not, but seriously, how stupid?

[HudsonHawk]

I believe this is Borges's first year to be eligible to vote for the HOF.  So natuarlly, he thinks it's all about him. 

Seriously, if the HOF wants to maintain any sort of resemblance to accuracy and legitimacy, they need to shitcan these morons now. 

[Limey]

I believe this is Borges's first year to be eligible to vote for the HOF.  So natuarlly, he thinks it's all about him.  

I flip-flop between thinking that these guys are fucking idiots, or that they are being deliberately specious and inconsistent to engender outrage that results in their article being shared and commented upon which count as hits on the website which makes advertisers happy which makes the idiots' bosses happy.

Either way, it's deserving of a beating with a rubber hose.

[HudsonHawk]

I flip-flop between thinking that these guys are fucking idiots, or that they are being deliberately specious and inconsistent to engender outrage that results in their article being shared and commented upon which count as hits on the website which makes advertisers happy which makes the idiots' bosses happy.

Writers have always done dubious things to get readership.  It's just that voting for the HOF was never one of them until people insisted that the writers discuss it months before counting the votes.  I blame our need to bludgeon the discussion to death as much as anything. 

[chuck]

He will respond if you email him.

Oh, I know.

[chuck]

Even if you address it "Dear Witless Fucktard..."?

Yes.

[BudGirl]

Yes.

Did he say you were angry?

[chuck]

Did he say you were angry?

No. He told me that no one cares about my opinions (he has a point I suppose) and he wished me happy holidays, sardonically I assume.

[BudGirl]

No. He told me that no one cares about my opinions (he has a point I suppose) and he wished me happy holidays, sardonically I assume.

He's wrong.  I care about your opinions.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Chuck, I too care about your opinions.

[VirtualBob]

We could do a Christmas Vacation thing and get Cousin Eddie to drag him to your house so you can tell him in person.

I volunteer to play the part of Cousin Eddy. Not that much of a stretch.

[Lefty]

I flip-flop between thinking that these guys are fucking idiots, or that they are being deliberately specious and inconsistent to engender outrage that results in their article being shared and commented upon which count as hits on the website which makes advertisers happy which makes the idiots' bosses happy.

Either way, it's deserving of a beating with a rubber hose.

This.  All of it.

[NeilT]

Chuck, I'm have a schizophrenic breakdown trying to decide whether I care about your opinions.

[homer]

No. He told me that no one cares about my opinions (he has a point I suppose) and he wished me happy holidays, sardonically I assume.

Your opinions are very good, but not great. I don't remember a single one of them, so therefore I will not care.

[BudGirl]

Your opinions are very good, but not great. I don't remember a single one of them, so therefore I will not care.

That's because you only read Astrosdaily.

(Is that even around anymore?)

[Bench]

No. He told me that no one cares about my opinions (he has a point I suppose) and he wished me happy holidays, sardonically I assume.

It's "merry christmas" motherfucker. 

[Fredia]

or a rubber hose with a sign saying insert here

[chuck]

Your opinions are very good, but not great. I don't remember a single one of them, so therefore I will not care.

You know, homer, I'm just going out there and giving my opinions every day, trying to make the board better. I'm just focusing on the next take, I'm going to treat it like it's my last take. I'm going to leave it all up here on the board, you know, but at the end of the day it's just internet posting.

[Mike S.]

Sometimes it rains.

[Mr. Happy]

You know, homer, I'm just going out there and giving my opinions every day, trying to make the board better. I'm just focusing on the next take, I'm going to treat it like it's my last take. I'm going to leave it all up here on the board, you know, but at the end of the day it's just internet posting.

You're appreciated here, Chuck, even myself, who disagrees with you on many things.

[HudsonHawk]

You know, homer, I'm just going out there and giving my opinions every day, trying to make the board better. I'm just focusing on the next take, I'm going to treat it like it's my last take. I'm going to leave it all up here on the board, you know, but at the end of the day it's just internet posting.

You forgot to thank God for the opportunity to post here. 

[BudGirl]

You forgot to thank God for the opportunity to post here. 

Also known as HH.

[Nate Colbert]

Baseball Think Factory hasn't started their 2015 Hall of Fame Ballot Collecting Gizmo.

Here's an alternative.

[chuck]

You're appreciated here, Chuck, even myself, who disagrees with you on many things.

You know what, Hap? I've been thinking about your post all day. Really. And maybe I'm touched by the spirit of the holidays but I've concluded that I'm a better person for knowing you. Even if you're immune to the sarcasm and other fonts of silliness that are pervasive around here. Especially if, probably.

But I do think that it's best that you and I continue our Facebook detente, you know, same as I maintain with Biz. I mean, all sorts of weird shit gets shared on Facebook that jars you. For example just the other day a fellow I know fondly posted a picture of a smirking Dick Cheney. See, I had no idea that this guy is a practicing Satanist, and frankly I'd have preferred to believe otherwise. But those are the dangers of social media, aren't they?

[Nate Colbert]

Broken-down, ink-stained wretch Mike "Duffy" Dyer casts his ballot: Bagwell, not Biggio. Or NO CRAIG BIGGIO!!!!!! as he expresses it (did I get the number of exclamation points right?).

Duff Man has never voted for Biggio (did max out his ballot for 2014 and 2015 classes but could have voted for him in 2013 class when he voted for just 8 players). His prior voting record on Bagwell? 2011 class-no, 2012 class-no record, 2013 class-yes, 2014 class-no.

Dyer spent most of newspaper career writing for such august publications as the Troy Record and the Middletown Times Herald Record. The last 8 years of his career were spent solely covering the local golf and bowling scene in upstate New York. Oh, and that column he refers to? Well, you can read it if you happen to be in the Buffalo area. Proceed to the nearest Kwik-E-Mart and pick up your copy of Sports & Leisure Magazine. Yeah, one of those free publications in the wire racks.



 

[Mr. Happy]

You know what, Hap? I've been thinking about your post all day. Really. And maybe I'm touched by the spirit of the holidays but I've concluded that I'm a better person for knowing you. Even if you're immune to the sarcasm and other fonts of silliness that are pervasive around here. Especially if, probably.

But I do think that it's best that you and I continue our Facebook detente, you know, same as I maintain with Biz. I mean, all sorts of weird shit gets shared on Facebook that jars you. For example just the other day a fellow I know fondly posted a picture of a smirking Dick Cheney. See, I had no idea that this guy is a practicing Satanist, and frankly I'd have preferred to believe otherwise. But those are the dangers of social media, aren't they?

I know that I'm a better person for having known you too. It was really a pleasure to have met you at OD last season. I'm planning on returning in 2015, and i hope that you are too. Good luck with your family. Children change your life, for the better in my opinion. It didn't stop me from doing what I used to do, at least initially, but it did have an impact eventually. I am blessed by having had two awesome sons, who haven't yet shown signs of the mental issues and addiction that plagued me, for which I am grateful.

[Nate Colbert]

Dave Krieger, ex-columnist for the Denver Post and defunct Rocky Mountain News: Bagwell, not Biggio. Had previously voted for Biggio the last two years. Does fill up the ballot with the full 10 names.

The usual hypocrisy and mind-boggling mental gymnastics abounds. Last year "Blitzkrieg" voted for Biggio and not for ex-Rockie Larry Walker. He reverses course and switches votes on the two this time round. To justify his pinwheeling, spends 17 paragraphs to tear down Biggio using Jay Jaffe's JAWS system (never mind that Jay Jaffe himself believes Biggio belongs in the HOF). He even tries to show Biggio was a bad defensive 2B by bringing up wrongly his career defensive WAR number of -3.9 (except that number included his time spent at catcher and in the OF).

So after using these advanced metrics to downgrade Bidge, here's what he had to say about Walker: "I don’t know how to compensate for the effects of Coors Field. I’m not that into the mathematics of baseball." Well shit, Dave, you might have told us that before using 2,500 words to denigrate Biggio in a purely statistical argument. Also tosses Mussina and Schilling onto this year's ballot ahead of Biggio.

[chuck]

[email protected]

[juliogotay]

Dave Krieger, ex-columnist for the Denver Post and defunct Rocky Mountain News: Bagwell, not Biggio. Had previously voted for Biggio the last two years. Does fill up the ballot with the full 10 names.

The usual hypocrisy and mind-boggling mental gymnastics abounds. Last year "Blitzkrieg" voted for Biggio and not for ex-Rockie Larry Walker. He reverses course and switches votes on the two this time round. To justify his pinwheeling, spends 17 paragraphs to tear down Biggio using Jay Jaffe's JAWS system (never mind that Jay Jaffe himself believes Biggio belongs in the HOF). He even tries to show Biggio was a bad defensive 2B by bringing up wrongly his career defensive WAR number of -3.9 (except that number included his time spent at catcher and in the OF).

So after using these advanced metrics to downgrade Bidge, here's what he had to say about Walker: "I don’t know how to compensate for the effects of Coors Field. I’m not that into the mathematics of baseball." Well shit, Dave, you might have told us that before using 2,500 words to denigrate Biggio in a purely statistical argument. Also tosses Mussina and Schilling onto this year's ballot ahead of Biggio.

What an idiot. Someone not into the mathematics of baseball should not be selecting the HOFers.

[Nate Colbert]

Ex-WSJ columnist Fred Klein weighs in: Biggio, not Bagwell. Voted for the full ten candidates including guys with *much* better HOF credentials than Baggy such as Edgar Martinez, Lee Smith, Schilling, Mussina and Trammell. Bizarre.

Klein has voted for Bidge in all of his three years on the ballot. He's never voted for Bagwell. And as far as I can tell he's never explained why (someone asked him one year about that in blog comments but he didn't respond). Given the anti-pedder stance vis-a-vis the Hall expressed on his blog, one might presume he bought in to the innuendo surrounding Bagwell. But his votes for Piazza this year and last suggest a highly selective reading of such rumors.

[HudsonHawk]

Ex-WSJ columnist Fred Klein weighs in: Biggio, not Bagwell. Voted for the full ten candidates including guys with *much* better HOF credentials than Baggy such as Edgar Martinez, Lee Smith, Schilling, Mussina and Trammell. Bizarre.

Klein has voted for Bidge in all of his three years on the ballot. He's never voted for Bagwell. And as far as I can tell he's never explained why (someone asked him one year about that in blog comments but he didn't respond). Given the anti-pedder stance vis-a-vis the Hall expressed on his blog, one might presume he bought in to the innuendo surrounding Bagwell. But his votes for Piazza this year and last suggest a highly selective reading of such rumors.

Perhaps he just doesn't see Bagwell as a HOFer.  And I'm cool with that.  I think he's an idiot, especially if he voted for Martinez, Schilling and Mussina, but if he simply thinks Bags was "very good, not great", so be it.  It's the idiots who use the process as their own personal soapbox that irritate me much more.

[ValpoCory]

Here's an alternative.

Thanks.  Part of me wishes they'd issue a gag order to shut down these soap boxes the way the Heisman Trust did for those voters, crippling the StiffArmTrophy website.

[Nate Colbert]

Dan Shaughnessy of the Boston Globe: No Bagwell, no Biggio. Inconsistency and hypocrisy: knocks out Biggio for being merely "very good" but has no problem voting for local boy Schilling (and curiously, while voting for Raines and Trammell this time round did not vote for either last year). And is an anti-pedder so buys into the guilt by innuendo mob and doesn't vote for Bagwell.

Also voted for Johnson, Pedro and Smoltz for a total of six on his ballot.

[email protected]

[HudsonHawk]

Dan Shaughnessy of the Boston Globe: No Bagwell, no Biggio. Inconsistency and hypocrisy: knocks out Biggio for being merely "very good" but has no problem voting for local boy Schilling (and curiously, while voting for Raines and Trammell this time round did not vote for either last year). And is an anti-pedder so buys into the guilt by innuendo mob and doesn't vote for Bagwell.

Also voted for Johnson, Pedro and Smoltz for a total of six on his ballot.

[email protected]

Anyone who votes for Smoltz ahead of Biggio should be in an institution.  Smoltz wasn't even "very good". 

[MusicMan]

Anyone who votes for Smoltz ahead of Biggio should be in an institution.  Smoltz wasn't even "very good". 

Any man still wearing a perm should be in an institution.

[MusicMan]

Thanks.  Part of me wishes they'd issue a gag order to shut down these soap boxes the way the Heisman Trust did for those voters, crippling the StiffArmTrophy website.

Heisman ratings were lowest in 10 years.  I'd say they cut off their nose to spite their face.

[Bench]

Heisman ratings were lowest in 10 years.  I'd say they cut off their nose to spite their face.

Sure, but the most important thing is to respect the candidates' finals schedule. 

[Nate Colbert]

The 2015 Hall of Fame Ballot Collecting Gizmo that ValpoCory referred to above has gone live. That one is run by Darren Viola.

I previously linked to another vote tabulator here called BBHoFTracker which is run by Ryan Thibs. The latter is much more detailed and shows individual ballots by voter. As far as the discrepancy in # of ballots, here's what Ryan said on his twitter feed:

@NotMrTibbs  15m
For those new to the program, Gizmo includes ballots that are anonymous (for now!), which is why his totals are higher than #BBHoFTracker's.

[Nate Colbert]

Anti pedder ass Marty Noble writes like someone in his late 80's or early 90's but is actually just 66. Doesn't like all those kids on his lawn all those guys cluttering up the Cooperstown stage. So for that reason chooses to only vote for Johnson, Pedro and Smoltz. Also "senses" that Jeff Kent is HOF-worthy (suggesting he will vote for him in the future) but makes no mention of Biggio. Unsurprisingly, has never voted for Bagwell or Biggio.

[Nate Colbert]

Barry Rozner of the Chicago Daily Herald (The Tribune? Sure. The Sun-Times? Yep. The Daily Herald? Who knew?) votes a whole boat-ful which includes Biggio but not Bagwell. The boat includes not just Johnson, Pedro, Smoltz, Piazza and Bonds but also Mussina, Schilling, Raines and Lee Smith. Has never voted for Bagwell even in years when he had blank spaces on his ballot.

[email protected]

[Duman]

Marc Topkin from tampa bay times posted his ballot on twitter. Bagwell, Biggio, Bonds, Clemens, Big Unit, Pedro, Crime Dog, Piazza, Sheffield & Smoltz.

[Dark Star]

Marc Topkin from tampa bay times posted his ballot on twitter. Bagwell, Biggio, Bonds, Clemens, Big Unit, Pedro, Crime Dog, Piazza, Sheffield & Smoltz.

I have found Topkin over the years to be fairly eloquent, thoughtful and reasonable (for a sportswriter, which is apparently not saying much.)

[Nate Colbert]

Take it for what it's worth, but noted sabermetrician "Tom Tango" looks at the early voting trends among the publicly-identified ballots to date (representing roughly 15% of the expected vote) and suggests Biggio (80%) will join Johnson, Pedro, Smoltz and possibly Piazza on the dais.

Projects Bagwell to finish at 70% (up 15 points over last year).

[Reuben]

I have found Topkin over the years to be fairly eloquent, thoughtful and reasonable (for a sportswriter, which is apparently not saying much.)

Maybe it's just me, but I'm still baffled by those who don't think Tim Raines, and especially Alan Trammell, are Hall of Famers. Or, at the very least, better HOF candidates than the likes of Gary Sheffield and John Smoltz.

[Limey]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm still baffled by those who don't think Tim Raines, and especially Alan Trammell, are Hall of Famers. Or, at the very least, better HOF candidates than the likes of Gary Sheffield and John Smoltz.

Gary Sheffield was a class act who never courted controversy and never had even a whiff of PED use.

Eh?  Oh.

[VirtualBob]

Gary Sheffield was a class act who never courted controversy and never had even a whiff of PED use.

Eh?  Oh.

No wonder everybody's sarc-o-meter is broken. That kind of input exceeds the design specs.

[Nate Colbert]

With 21% (or 119 votes) of the expected vote tabulated, the 2015 Hall of Fame Ballot Collecting Gizmo currently showing Biggio and Bagwell running at 84% and 70% respectively (82% and 71% per BBHoFTracker).

Just to recap Bagwell's past final voting results:

• 2011 (41.7%)
• 2012 (56.0%)
• 2013 (59.6%)
• 2014 (54.3%)

Bagwell was polling at 55.5% per BBHoFTracker (56.5% per the Gizmo) last year prior to announcement of the final voting results.

Make-or-break HOF election for Jeff Bagwell

The good news for Bagwell: Every player who received at least 50 percent of the vote from the BBWAA -- and isn't still on the ballot -- has eventually been elected to Cooperstown, with the exception of Gil Hodges and Jack Morris. The bad news for Bagwell: His vote total dropped last year to 54.3 percent. The other bad news is the rule change that now limits a player to 10 years on the ballot instead of 15. In rare cases, it takes years to develop Hall of Fame momentum. Rice got elected in his 15th year on the ballot, Blyleven on his 14th, Bruce Sutter on his 13th. Bagwell is already four years in and now has fewer years to regain back his lost momentum. That's why getting back up to 60 percent is critical. [T]he average number of years from 60 percent to election has been 2.3, with a max of four (and excluding Morris). When you get to 60 percent, momentum seems to really ramp up, even more so than getting to 50 percent. I can't attempt to understand the collective psychology of the BBWAA here, but my prediction is if Bagwell gets to 60 percent he'll get elected in three years.

[Nate Colbert]

One man's opinion of the best "5 percenters" who lasted only one year on the Hall ballot.

[Nate Colbert]

Check out the breakdown by BBWAA chapter of the first 106 public ballots from the very hard-working Ryan Thibs (@NotMrTibbs).

39% of the vote coming from the NY & Boston chapters vs. 4% from Houston & Dallas chapters!

[HudsonHawk]

One man's opinion of the best "5 percenters" who lasted only one year on the Hall ballot.

Someone needs to tell this doofus that there is no Veteran's Committee anymore.

[Nate Colbert]

Thought I'd share this with those like me who are former readers of the old Houston Post. I'm sure you recall the name Ivy McLemore. When I saw his name on the BBHoFTracker (yes, he did vote for the B's), I was curious and looked him up. Since the Post's defunctitude, he's been in the field of corporate flackery for the last 2+ decades. He notes in his Linked In page that he has "voted in the last 29 annual ballots for Baseball's Hall of Fame". Before raising the question as to why someone who hasn't held a newspaper or reporting job of any kind for the last 22 years (and didn't retire as such) is still entitled to a HOF vote, note also that Ivy (many in Houston may already know this) has "served as an official scorer for Major League Baseball in five decades, starting at the age of 19". So there's that.

[Nate Colbert]

Someone needs to tell this doofus that there is no Veteran's Committee anymore.

Yeah, I'm sure the doofus was completely ignorant of that fact.

[Nate Colbert]

Whitey on Larry Walker, Coors and Cooperstown:

One former teammate, Brad Ausmus, fondly recalls...

Brad and Walker were teammates???

One thing that has hurt Walker is that in his 17 year career, he played 145 games in a season once. He averaged 123 games. Granted, he opened his career in Montreal and wound down in St. Louis, but his peers and his general manager, O’Dowd, maintain a major factor in that games played —aside from his reckless, fearless style—is the recovery difficulties because of the altitude.

So nearly half of his career was spent in a non-Rockies uniform and you *still* want to raise the recovery/altitude issue?

########################################################

Per BBHoFTracker currently, 6 of the voters have cast ballots for Walker in lieu of either Biggio or Bagwell.

[Nate Colbert]

Steve Buckley of the Boston Herald:

In case you’re wondering, Berardino also voted for Jeff Bagwell, Jeff Biggio, Edgar Martinez, Mike Mussina, Mike Piazza, Tim Raines, Curt Schilling and John Smoltz. This hits home with me, for the simple reason that Berardino and I submitted the same ballots — except that I voted for Martinez and Johnson and he left them off in order to support Trammell and Walker.

Hopefully they're voting for Craig Biggio and not that Jeff Biggio guy.

[HudsonHawk]

So nearly half of his career was spent in a non-Rockies uniform and you *still* want to raise the recovery/altitude issue?

Over half his career (60%) was in Colorado, but the point is, it's only the Colorado numbers that even remotely come to HOF levels.  In the 40% of his career outside of Colorado, he belongs in the Hall of Mediocre.  If he plays his whole career in Montreal or St. Louis, he's not even on the ballot anymore.   

[Uncle Charlie]

Over half his career (60%) was in Colorado, but the point is, it's only the Colorado numbers that even remotely come to HOF levels.  In the 40% of his career outside of Colorado, he belongs in the Hall of Mediocre.  If he plays his whole career in Montreal or St. Louis, he's not even on the ballot anymore.   

The guy kinda reminds me of Moises Alou.  Very good, even great at times, but did not dominate his position.

[Nate Colbert]

The 17 ESPN HOF voters release their ballots.

Double fuck you's to Howard Bryant**, Pedro Gomez*, Dan Graziano*** and Barry Stanton**** who didn't vote for either Biggio or Bagwell. And fuck you to Jim Caple*****, Michael Knisley******, Paul Gutierrez******* and Nick Pietruszkiewicz******** who voted for Bidge but not Baggs.

Writers who voted for both B's: Jerry Crasnick, Gordon Edes, Tim Kurkjian, Ian O'Connor, Peter Pascarelli, Brendan Roberts, Adam Rubin, Mark Saxon and Jayson Stark.

*Gomez of course is the Bill Mueller jackass from 2012 who has never voted for Biggio or Bagwell in their years on the ballot.

**Bryant submitted a blank ballot back in 2013 thereby canceling out multiple votes of his peers. Abstain, moron.

***Graziano is all over the damn place. Didn't vote for either Baggy or Fred McGriff in 2011, voted for Bagwell but not McGriff in 2012, and in the three years since has voted for McGriff but not Baggs.

****Like Graziano, Stanton's voting shows no rhyme or reason. Voted no on Bagwell in 2011 and 2012, yes in 2013, and no again in 2014 and 2015 (had blank spaces on his ballot in those years so that wasn't the issue). Voted for Biggio in 2013 and 2014 but no this year (to reiterate: blank spaces on ballot). Just plain jackassery.

*****Caple voted for Bagwell in 2011-2013 but not the last 2 years when he voted the full boat. Presumably he'll go back to voting for Jeff next year as the backlog begins to clear up some.

******Knisley has never voted for Jeff (including the last couple of years when he's had blank spots on his ballot). He has voted for Edgar Martinez and Lee Smith every single year they've been on the ballot.

*******Like Knisley, an Edgar Martinez/Lee Smith lover but not a Baggy fan.

********First time voter who voted for Edgar Martinez but left Bagwell off his ballot despite three blank spots.

[Reuben]

Voted no on Bagwell in 2011 and 2012, yes in 2013, and no again in 2014 and 2015 (had blank spaces on his ballot in those years so that wasn't the issue). Voted for Biggio in 2013 and 2014 but no this year (to reiterate: blank spaces on ballot).

This is perhaps the most idiotic, fucked-up, egregious kind of voting; when someone, after presumably serious thought and diligent research, decides a player deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, then the next year, decides he doesn't. What exactly does he think has changed? It just makes the voter look like they don't take the process seriously (which, clearly, many of them don't).

[Uncle Charlie]

I don't have insider, but what is the synopsis of why Onley abstained?  Also, doesn't he technically have to put in a blank ballot to have the ability to continue voting thus nullifying 3 yes votes for every player?

[Nate Colbert]

I don't have insider, but what is the synopsis of why Onley abstained?  Also, doesn't he technically have to put in a blank ballot to have the ability to continue voting thus nullifying 3 yes votes for every player?

See this Deadspin article for his position (essentially he and Lynn Jennings are protesting the 10-man limit). And no there is no requirement that a voter must submit a blank ballot rather than merely abstaining in order to continue voting in future elections.

[geezerdonk]

All three Dallas Morning News writers voted for Biggio and Bagwell.

[MusicMan]

Over half his career (60%) was in Colorado, but the point is, it's only the Colorado numbers that even remotely come to HOF levels.  In the 40% of his career outside of Colorado, he belongs in the Hall of Mediocre.

Career home vs. road: .348/.431/.637 vs. .278/.370/.495

Compare to Bagwell:
.303/.417/.560 vs. .291/.398/.521

It's a big split, but the road numbers are better than I thought for Walker.

[HudsonHawk]

Career home vs. road: .348/.431/.637 vs. .278/.370/.495

Compare to Bagwell:
.303/.417/.560 vs. .291/.398/.521

It's a big split, but the road numbers are better than I thought for Walker.

Walker was a fine hitter.  I'm not trying to say he wasn't.  But take away Coors, and he's Shawn Green...not in the HOF discussion and no longer on the ballot.

[Duman]

Keith Law called out Pedro Gomez on twitter for voting for McGriff over Bagwell - long twitter thread but worth the read.

[Nate Colbert]

3 hours to the announcement (on MLB Network) with the 2 ballot tabulators showing Biggio currently at 84% and Bagwell at 62%.

[Fredia]

I am nervous as a cat

[Reuben]

Biggio now at 84.8%. Would it be too petty and/or greedy to want to see him finish higher than Smoltz (currently at 85.?

[jaklewein]

Biggio now at 84.8%. Would it be too petty and/or greedy to want to see him finish higher than Smoltz (currently at 85.?

Yes.  Just hope he gets in.  Last year was a real kick in the nuts.

[HudsonHawk]

Harold Reynolds is splooging all over Curt Schilling on MLB Network.

[Reuben]

Yes.  Just hope he gets in.  Last year was a real kick in the nuts.

Oh I don't think either one is a sure bet to make it this year. Those polling numbers are always high.

[HudsonHawk]

WooHoo!!

[Waldo]

Hell yeah!

[Nate Colbert]

About fucking time!

[Alkie]

About fucking time.

[Fredia]

he is in. there is a baseball god

[HudsonHawk]

Neither Bagwell (55%) or Piazza (69%) particularly close. 

[ValpoCory]

Yes!   Congratulations to Bidge.   Now to hear a boat load of people mispronounce his last name over and over again.

[BudGirl]

I feel the need to go and just do the BGO chant over and over and over and over....

[ValpoCory]

Neither Bagwell (55%) or Piazza (69%) particularly close.  

Little disappointing to see such little movement on Bagwell's number.  Piazza and Griffey will be in next year.   It will be interesting to see where Bagwell and Hoffman land in the voting.

[ValpoCory]

I feel the need to go and just do the BGO chant over and over and over and over....

I prefer "Bidge-E-O! Bidge-E-O!" so as not to encourage Chris Berman to say "Mantinee on the B-G-O".

[HudsonHawk]

Little disappointing to see such little movement out of Bagwell.  Piazza and Griffey will be in next year.   It will be interesting to see where Bagwell and Hoffman land in the voting.

I can't imagine Bagwell ever getting in, at least not by the writers.  He's maxed out his support. 

[Ebby Calvin]

Congrats Bidge!

[BudGirl]

I prefer "Bidge-E-O! Bidge-E-O!" so as not to encourage Chris Berman to say "Mantinee on the B-G-O".

One is pretty easy to type. 

[ValpoCory]

I can't imagine Bagwell ever getting in, at least not by the writers.  He's maxed out his support.  

Every single player to have received at least 51% of a vote is in the Hall of Fame or currently on the ballot.   Bagwell may be the first to be left out.  But eventually, I believe he'll get in one way or another.

Next year will be a less clogged ballot, with less "I only had 10 votes so I couldn't vote for Bagwell" voters.

[HudsonHawk]

Every single player to have received at least 51% of a vote is in the Hall of Fame or currently on the ballot.   Bagwell may be the first.  But eventually, he'll get in one way or another.

Next year will be a less clogged ballot, with less "I only had 10 votes so I couldn't vote for Bagwell" voters.

He's going to continue to be on the ballot with Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGwire, Sheffield, etc.  There's never going to be a point where he's the best player on the ballot.  He's halfway through his eligibility and his support has remained the same, and actually gone down a bit, in the last few years. 

[Limey]

He's going to continue to be on the ballot with Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGwire, Sheffield, etc.  There's never going to be a point where he's the best player on the ballot. 

...and all those others being there too will allow those who tarnish Bagwell with the PED brush to keep doing so.

[ValpoCory]

He's going to continue to be on the ballot with Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGwire, Sheffield, etc.  There's never going to be a point where he's the best player on the ballot, and he's now half-way through his chances. 

One third of the way through his chances you mean (5 of 15).

[ValpoCory]

82.7% of the vote for Craig.   I like it.


"Johnson, a five-time Cy Young Award winner, was selected on 97.3 percent of the 549 ballots cast this year.

Martinez, who won three Cy Young Awards, was on 91.1 percent of the ballots while Smoltz and Biggio received 82.9 and 82.7 percent of the votes, respectively."

[Ron Brand]

One third of the way through his chances you mean (5 of 15).

Isn't it ten years now?

[MusicMan]

One third of the way through his chances you mean (5 of 15).

It's ten years now.

[ValpoCory]

...and all those others being there too will allow those who tarnish Bagwell with the PED brush to keep doing so.

The non-public ballots agree with you.

205 Full Ballots ~ (35.9% of vote ~ based on last year)
Biggio's public ballots -- 84.9% Yes
Biggio's non-public ballots -- 81.5% Yes  

Bagwell's public ballots -- 62.4% Yes
Bagwell's non-public ballots -- 50.9% Yes


So those who want to avoid judgment are significantly more against Bagwell than Biggio.

[ValpoCory]

It's ten years now.

Thanks.  I wasn't sure which players were grand fathered in to the 15 year rule.

"That change will not affect the three players currently in years 11-15 on the ballot. Don Mattingly (15th year in 2015), Alan Trammell (14th) and Lee Smith (13th) will be grandfathered in and remain on the ballot for the full 15 years."

[HudsonHawk]

One third of the way through his chances you mean (5 of 15).

It's only 10 years now.  Bagwell has 5 more. 

[ValpoCory]

ESPN.com frontpage using a picture of the other three Hall of Famers. 

[BudGirl]

ESPN.com frontpage using a picture of the other three Hall of Famers. 

They probably never saw him hit a baseball and didn't have a picture of him.

[ValpoCory]

Voting totals on Baseball-reference now.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_2015.shtml#BBWAA

[HudsonHawk]

They probably never saw him hit a baseball and didn't have a picture of him.

Probably the same reason MLB Network didn't have a camera crew at his house like they did with the others.  The didn't know if he'd make it or not. 

[ValpoCory]

The non-public ballots agree with you.

205 Full Ballots ~ (35.9% of vote ~ based on last year)
Biggio's public ballots -- 84.9% Yes
Biggio's non-public ballots -- 81.5% Yes  

Bagwell's public ballots -- 62.4% Yes
Bagwell's non-public ballots -- 50.9% Yes


So those who want to avoid judgment are significantly more against Bagwell than Biggio.

Updating with exact numbers ...

Bagwell's public ballots -- (128 of 205) 62.4% Yes
Bagwell's non-public ballots -- (178 of 344) 51.7% Yes

Bagwell fell 106 votes short (306 of 412 needed).

[HudsonHawk]

Schilling continuing to be an asswipe on ESPN, denigrating Biggio.

[ValpoCory]

It's only 10 years now.  Bagwell has 5 more. 

That rule change may end up getting Bagwell enshrined earlier now, as the Veteran's Committee can put him in the class of 2021-2023, depending on which of those 3 years they meet.

[Andyzipp]

So in 2016, in addition to the holdovers (Piazza, Bagwell, Raines, Schilling, Clemens, Bonds, L. Smith, E. Martinez, Trammell, Mussina, Kent, McGriff, Walker, Sheffield, McGwire, Sosa, Garciaparra) the ballot will add Griffey Jr., Edmonds, Kendall, Glaus, Castillo, Winn, Anderson, Lowell, Hoffman, Grudzielanek, Sweeney, Park, Eckstein, Weaver, Matthews, Guzman, Guillen, Howry, B. Molina, Tatis, and former Astros Mike Hampton, Billy Wagner, Brad Ausmus, Russ Ortiz, and Russ Springer.

Are Griffey Jr. and Hoffman the only real candidates out of that group?

[ValpoCory]

So in 2016, in addition to the holdovers (Piazza, Bagwell, Raines, Schilling, Clemens, Bonds, L. Smith, E. Martinez, Trammell, Mussina, Kent, McGriff, Walker, Sheffield, McGwire, Sosa, Garciaparra) the ballot will add Griffey Jr., Edmonds, Kendall, Glaus, Castillo, Winn, Anderson, Lowell, Hoffman, Grudzielanek, Sweeney, Park, Eckstein, Weaver, Matthews, Guzman, Guillen, Howry, B. Molina, Tatis, and former Astros Mike Hampton, Billy Wagner, Brad Ausmus, Russ Ortiz, and Russ Springer.

Are Griffey Jr. and Hoffman the only real candidates out of that group?

Yep.   Piazza will likely get the 28 votes he was short this year.  And next year is McGwire's 10th and final year on the ballot.   Sosa was lucky to survive the 5% cut this year.

[BudGirl]

So in 2016, in addition to the holdovers (Piazza, Bagwell, Raines, Schilling, Clemens, Bonds, L. Smith, E. Martinez, Trammell, Mussina, Kent, McGriff, Walker, Sheffield, McGwire, Sosa, Garciaparra) the ballot will add Griffey Jr., Edmonds, Kendall, Glaus, Castillo, Winn, Anderson, Lowell, Hoffman, Grudzielanek, Sweeney, Park, Eckstein, Weaver, Matthews, Guzman, Guillen, Howry, B. Molina, Tatis, and former Astros Mike Hampton, Billy Wagner, Brad Ausmus, Russ Ortiz, and Russ Springer.

Are Griffey Jr. and Hoffman the only real candidates out of that group?

Some think Billy Wagner is a real candidate.

[Andyzipp]

Some think Billy Wagner is a real candidate.

Besides Mr. & Mrs. Wagner?

[Kit]

so thankful Biggio got in......Bags next....should be real interesting next year..I think he'll jump up in to the high 60%'s and hopefully get in another couple years.

[94CougarGrad]

YAWP! Good to see him in there.

[ValpoCory]

In case you missed it ... video of a phone interview with Bidge.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/105667738/longtime-houston-astros-star-craig-biggio-elected-to-hall-of-fame

Loved to hear how emotional he was today.  So proud of him.

[HudsonHawk]

So in 2016, in addition to the holdovers (Piazza, Bagwell, Raines, Schilling, Clemens, Bonds, L. Smith, E. Martinez, Trammell, Mussina, Kent, McGriff, Walker, Sheffield, McGwire, Sosa, Garciaparra) the ballot will add Griffey Jr., Edmonds, Kendall, Glaus, Castillo, Winn, Anderson, Lowell, Hoffman, Grudzielanek, Sweeney, Park, Eckstein, Weaver, Matthews, Guzman, Guillen, Howry, B. Molina, Tatis, and former Astros Mike Hampton, Billy Wagner, Brad Ausmus, Russ Ortiz, and Russ Springer.

Are Griffey Jr. and Hoffman the only real candidates out of that group?

Edmonds.  He's already being talked up as a no-brainer in many circles.  I'd look for him to get at least 40%.

[Fredia]

agreed major heat (remember the shooting flames they had for a while)

[Craig]

Underneath his plaque in Cooperstown, Bidge should have one of those push-button speakers. And each time someone pushes the button, Biggio pronounces his name correctly.

My favorite Biggio hit was the homer off Billy Wagner in Philly. I only have one link that still works, and it's pretty shitty quality. But still, what a great homer.

[Fredia]

would love to be a mmpus Friday. sigh

http://blog.chron.com/ultimateastros/2015/01/06/former-astros-star-craig-biggio-elected-to-hall-of-fame/#29543101=0

[ValpoCory]

The Veteran's Committee would vote on Bagwell 3 years after his 10th ballot.  The part of the Veteran's committee that votes on Expansion Era players votes in December 2019 (Baggy's last writers' ballot) and then again not until December 2022.

So while Bidge is in the Class of 2015, Bags may not be in until the Class of 2023, if he doesn't get in with the writers.

[jaklewein]

Underneath his plaque in Cooperstown, Bidge should have one of those push-button speakers. And each time someone pushes the button, Biggio pronounces his name correctly.

My favorite Biggio hit was the homer off Billy Wagner in Philly. I only have one link that still works, and it's pretty shitty quality. But still, what a great homer.

I remember that homerun Craig.  Thanks for the link.

[ValpoCory]

Probably the same reason MLB Network didn't have a camera crew at his house like they did with the others.  The didn't know if he'd make it or not. 

Somebody had a camera crew there.  Anyone have a link to the video?

When the phone call came, a call he played 20 years with the Houston Astors to earn and waited three years to get, Craig Biggio cried.

“I ain’t going to lie,” Biggio said. “They got it on film.”

The film crew was there with Biggio to document the historic moment when he was told: Welcome to Cooperstown.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimateastros/2015/01/06/former-astros-star-craig-biggio-elected-to-hall-of-fame/#29543101=0

[Waldo]

My favorite Biggio hit was the homer off Billy Wagner in Philly. I only have one link that still works, and it's pretty shitty quality. But still, what a great homer.

Delicious Philly phan shrieks and boos start as soon as the ball leaves the bat.

[Navin R Johnson]

Speaking of Billy. Interesting bio he has on his twitter page.

https://twitter.com/wagsk13wjs_e

[NeilT]

Speaking of Billy. Interesting bio he has on his twitter page.

https://twitter.com/wagsk13wjs_e

phillies, mets, red sox's, and BRAVES!

[Fredia]

didn't he get hit in the head?

[Nate Colbert]

Callback to one of the great games from Biggio's HS football career--scores 40 of his team's 46 points on 3 rushing TDs, threw a TD pass and caught another, 2 pick sixes (one called back by penalty) and 4 PATs. All in one half.

[L.I. Bill]

Congrats to the Astros org and the Long Island boy.

[Nate Colbert]

The Bishop @BillBishopKHOU  ·  31 minutes ago
Craig #Biggio & his fellow 2015 Hall of Famers will pitch the Top Ten List on the Late Show with David Letterman on Wed. Jan. 7.

[ValpoCory]

I wish the announcement would have mentioned Matt Galante instead of or in addition to Yogi Berra as the coach who was most influential to Biggio's conversion to 2nd base.  

"Craig had great talent, but the way he played the game made him a Hall of Famer. He made himself a great player. He was a terrific teammate and has been a great friend. He played three positions, all of them well, and nobody worked harder. I worked with him when he made the switch to second base. We went to Spring Training before the rest of the club, and worked one hour every morning at 7:00 a.m. I admired his attitude and willingness to make the switch, even though he had never played second base. I also admired that his goal from day one was not to be average, but to be great. To his credit, he accomplished that, winning four Gold Gloves. I'm very proud of him."

-Matt Galante, who served several seasons as an Astros coach, including for most of Biggio's career.

Various comments:
http://m.astros.mlb.com/news/article/105721420/comments-on-craig-biggio

[Reuben]

I posted this rant on another message board - one that's basically a general baseball message board, although most of the regular posters seem to be NY, SF, and PHI fans for some reason. In case anyone has some East-coast moron(s) in their life who need shit spelled out for them, but you don't have the time to look up all the stats, feel free to cut n' paste:

"-kjeverhart replied (5 hours ago): New York Yankee Craig Biggio would have been the grizzled legend first-ballot guy. Houston Astro Craig Biggio is far from the limelight, and took too many ballots. "

This comment, from the "Hall of Fame day" thread, was spot-on. I read way too many quotes from shitty, lazy writers/voters who basically said "I can't remember anything about Craig Biggio's career, so he must not be a Hall of Famer". As if it's Biggio's fault that a writer lived in the Northeast and was too myopic in his ESPN-vision to bother to follow NL Central pennant races, or do some actual damn RESEARCH on the candidates on the HOF ballot.

Biggio's career numbers are actually pretty similar to Jeter's.

Biggio 12,504 PA; 1,844 R; 3,060 H; 668 2B, 291 HR, 1,175 RBI; 414 SB, 112 OPS+

Jeter 12,602 PA; 1,923 R; 3,465 H; 544 2B, 260 HR, 1,311 RBI; 358 SB, 115 OPS+

Or, put another way, per 162 Games:

Biggio .281/.363/.433 with 105 R, 38 2B, 17 HR, 67 RBI, 24 SB, 7 CS, 66 BB, 100 K, 9 GIDP.

Jeter .310/.377/.440 with 113 R, 32 2B, 15 HR, 77 RBI, 21 SB, 6 CS, 64 BB, 109 K, 17 GIDP.

Keep in mind that Biggio played in the Astrodome from 1988-99, and in the NL his whole career. Jeter played in Yankee Stadium, for the Yankees. Biggio was an AS catcher before becoming an AS 2B. He won 4 Gold Gloves. Jeter won 5, but, well, you know.

Yes, Jeter has an amazing postseason stat record. He played 158 playoff games, and basically matched his seasonal averages. Biggio did poorly - .234/.295/.323 - in 40 career playoff games, spread over 6 seasons. You could probably find 40 games' worth of playoff series where Jeter hit poorly; in 2001, he hit .118/.200/.118 in the ALCS, then .148/.179/.259 as the Yanks lost the WS. 1998, .111 in the ALDS, .200 ALCS. 2004 ALCS, .200/.333/.233. 5 of Biggio's 9 postseason series were vs. the Braves - that's a lot of ABs vs. Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz.

Some think Biggio was a "compiler" who was never truly great. Wrong. Biggio is not a HOF'er because he reached 3,000 hits, or even because he's 5th all-time in doubles, with more than any other right-handed batter ever; nor is it because he holds the modern-day HBP record, or the NL leadoff HR record. He had a fantastic peak - from 1993-98, he averaged 126 R, 42 2B, 20 HR, 80 RBI, 38 SB, 81 BB/96 K, .304/.399/.476, good for a 135 OPS+. He had fantastic single seasons: In 1994, he was on pace to hit .318/.411/.483 with 63 doubles and 55 steals when the strike happened. In 1995, he scored 123 R, and hit 22 HR in 141 games, with a 142 OPS+. In 1997, he scored *146* Runs, with a 143 OPS+ and zero GIDP, and was worth 9.4 WAR according to bb-ref. In 1998, he batted .325, set an Astros record with 210 Hits, and became the first player since Tris Speaker to collect 50 2B and 50 SB in the same season.

He wasn't quite the same after a takeout slide by Preston Wilson tore his ACL in 2000, but from 2001-05 he still averaged 102 R, 40 2B, 20 HR, and 10/13 SB, with a .788 OPS/101 OPS+.

Biggio and Robin Yount are the only middle infielders ever with 3,000 Hits and 1,000 extra-base hits. Biggio, Barry Bonds, and Rickey Henderson are the only players in history with more than 2,500 Hits, 500 doubles, 400 steals, and 250 HR.

Another thing the lazy East-coast sportswriter might not know is that Biggio, throughout his whole career, was the definition of a hard-nosed, hard-running, classy ballplayer who played the game the right way. He was a clubhouse leader who, along with Jeff Bagwell, made sure his teammates did what they were supposed to do and acted the way a major-league ballplayer should act. He was revered and respected by teammates and opponents and local media.

In other words, he was a lot like Derek Jeter (minus a few dozen actresses and models). If Biggio had been a career Yankee, and Jeter a career Astro... the HOF voting for both might have gone a lot differently.

****
Most of the responses so far have been very agreeable/positive, although one of the first was "Trying to compare him to jeter is laughable. State your case that he is a hof, but to compare the two is laughable at best." Guess where that guy is from...

[subnuclear]

Great rant!

[NeilT]

I wonder whose cap he'll wear?

[HudsonHawk]

I wonder whose cap he'll wear?

Speaking of that...Johnson...Mariner or Diamondback?  I'm guessing the latter. 

[subnuclear]

Speaking of that...Johnson...Mariner or Diamondback?  I'm guessing the latter. 

4 straight Cy Youngs and his only World Series = Diamondback.

[subnuclear]

I don't see how someone can look at Pedro's and Johnson's career and not wonder what John Smoltz is doing there.

[Nate Colbert]

Planning on attending the induction ceremony? Astros County has you covered with all the travel logistics.

[HudsonHawk]

I don't see how someone can look at Pedro's and Johnson's career and not wonder what John Smoltz is doing there.

This is me.  It's mindboggling to me the "no-brainer" attitude for Smoltz.  Some yahoo was on the CBSSports Minute yesterday explaining why Biggio should not be a HOFer.  His reasoning was, if you you have to stop and think at all about a guy, the answer is "no".  He said "look at the other guys...Johnson...of course...Pedro...no-brainer...Smoltz...you don't even have to think about it...all three are sure-fire HOFers beyond question...but Biggio...eh..."  Really? You don't have to think about Smoltz?  Seriously?  Even after thinking about it, he's not a HOFer to me.  He's not even in the Hall of Very Good to me.

[Limey]

Or, put another way, per 162 Games:
Biggio .281/.363/.433 with 105 R, 38 2B, 17 HR, 67 RBI, 24 SB, 7 CS, 66 BB, 100 K, 9 GIDP.
Jeter .310/.377/.440 with 113 R, 32 2B, 15 HR, 77 RBI, 21 SB, 6 CS, 64 BB, 109 K, 17 GIDP.

I'm surprised that Bidge's power superiority didn't get more attention from the BBWAA.  After all, pricks dig the long ball.  Eh?  Oh.

[HudsonHawk]

I'm surprised that Bidge's power superiority didn't get more attention from the BBWAA.  After all, pricks dig the long ball.  Eh?  Oh.

You're obviously missing the biggest factor: Jeter literally willed his team to seven World Series, singlehandedly winning five of them with his aura alone.  That doesn't show up in the box score. 

[Limey]

You're obviously missing the biggest factor: Jeter literally willed his team to seven World Series, singlehandedly winning five of them with his aura alone.  That doesn't show up in the box score. 

His aura?  I thought he threatened his teammates that he'd secretly wipe his dick on their towels if they lost.  No one wants what Jeter's carrying.

[HudsonHawk]

His aura?  I thought he threatened his teammates that he'd secretly wipe his dick on their towels if they lost.  No one wants what Jeter's carrying.

That was his "mojo".  He tried to bottle and sell it, but the USEPA got wind of it and said it was a violation of RCRA Subtitle C. 

[Bench]

I don't see how someone can look at Pedro's and Johnson's career and not wonder what John Smoltz is doing there.

I don't see how someone can look at Mussina's career and not wonder what Smoltz is doing there.

[ValpoCory]

I wonder whose cap he'll wear?

The one Bidge wore for his first 6 seasons, his second 6 seasons, or his last 8 seasons?

[Fredia]

none of the caps have pinstripes
do they

[Ebby Calvin]

Speaking of that...Johnson...Mariner or Diamondback?  I'm guessing the latter. 

Astro

[Jacksonian]

Biggio's career numbers are actually pretty similar to Jeter's.

IMO, the better comparison is to Roberto Alomar with Alomar being the better on base guy while Biggio was the better power hitter.

[HudsonHawk]

IMO, the better comparison is to Roberto Alomar with Alomar being the better on base guy while Biggio was the better power hitter.

When you look at Bill James's "similarity scores", Jeter's number one comparison is....*drumroll*....wait for it....Craig Biggio. 

[NeilT]

When you look at Bill James's "similarity scores", Jeter's number one comparison is....*drumroll*....wait for it....Craig Biggio. 

I think I've heard Biggio had a wild youth, but I thought he'd settled into a pretty quiet family guy?

[Limey]

I think I've heard Biggio had a wild youth, but I thought he'd settled into a pretty quiet family guy?

If he hadn't, his wife would've beaten the shit out of him.

[HudsonHawk]

I don't see how someone can look at Mussina's career and not wonder what Smoltz is doing there.

Curt Schilling has the answer:  Political Party Affiliation

[chuck]

I've got Schilling at the top of my list for the Dumbfuck Hall of Fame. He's a no-brainer first ballot.

[Navin R Johnson]

Curt Schilling has the answer:  Political Party Affiliation

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

It really is amazing that he failed so miserably in business.   He seems so well grounded in reality.

[Bench]

I've got Schilling at the top of my list for the Dumbfuck Hall of Fame. He's a no-brainer first ballot.

Every member is a no-brainer.

[Mike S.]

Curt Schilling has the answer:  Political Party Affiliation

Interesting, always thought Smoltz was a Republican. 

ETA: I know he at least campaigned for several Republican candidates in Georgia.

[NeilT]

I think he was joking. 

[HudsonHawk]

I think he was joking. 

You're assuming facts not in evidence, counselor.

[Nate Colbert]

In case you're interested and missed it last night, Letterman Top Ten video.

[ValpoCory]

In case you're interested and missed it last night, Letterman Top Ten video.

I suffered through the Letterman monologue before that.  Sheesh, Martha Stewart and Barbara Walters jokes?  Man he can't leave soon enough.

I will give him points for correctly pronouncing Biggio's last name though.

[Fredia]

I noticed that and wondered if he got coaching

[juliogotay]

In case you're interested and missed it last night, Letterman Top Ten video.

This board could have written funnier lines than Letterman's writers.

[Nate Colbert]

All those Biggio cards you hoarded? Sell, sell, sell.

[Nate Colbert]

Always room for another Bidge story (even if it doesn't involve much more than a bruise the size of an eggplant).

[Limey]

All those Biggio cards you hoarded? Sell, sell, sell.

My limited items of baseball memorabilia are mostly Biggio-related, including a signed ball.  I think I'll keep 'em, though.

[MusicMan]

My limited items of baseball memorabilia are mostly Biggio-related, including a signed ball.  I think I'll keep 'em, though.

Mrs. MM would never allow me to sell my autographed jersey.

[BudGirl]

One day I will frame my autographed picture and tickets from Game 4 of the WS, 3000 hit game and his last game.

[ValpoCory]

Always room for another Bidge story (even if it doesn't involve much more than a bruise the size of an eggplant).

One more Bidge story from a fan on a college message board I frequent ...

Way to go, VOTERS! GREAT SELECTIONS!

    I'm truly pleased with the results...especially about Biggio, of course. GREAT!

    When my 6 year old nephew was dying of a brain tumor, Biggio on several occasions had a plane fly from Houston to Temple...get the boy and my brother...then fly them to Houston for the treatments. He was on each flight himself, too. They couldn't save little Jesse's life...but no famous person in the world could be more generous and personally wonderful than was/is Craig Biggio. He belongs in the HALL OF FAME FOR ALL HUMANITY...not just for pro baseball.

    Thank you forever from our family, Mr Biggio.

Just amazing.  Something tells me this kid wasn't the only one that Craig did this or something similar for.

[juliogotay]

One more Bidge story from a fan on a college message board I frequent ...

Just amazing.  Something tells me this kid wasn't the only one that Craig did this or something similar for.

Thanks for sharing. THAT makes me more proud of his being an Astro than all of his on-field accomplishments.

[Duman]

Baseball tonight pod cast was telling their fav. stories of the new inducties. One of the talking heads told a story about Biggio in an All Star game in High school.  He was playing second and the kid at SS was struck by lightening and was killed.  Biggio said he was afraid of going outside if lighting was in the area for at least 6 months.  The writer/talker then stated that that is the only time he has known of Biggio to be afraid of anything. 

[Nate Colbert]

Yes, RSSW, I am thrilled to be able to see Astros games this season on your network. But wouldn't it make a helluva lot of sense to carry events such as the Biggio ceremony going on right now?

[Nate Colbert]

I liked this article comparing the voting process of the baseball HOF to those of the hockey, football and basketball HOFs.

Widely criticized, the Basketball Hall of Fame not only votes secretly but also keeps secret who is actually on the selection committee.

[Nate Colbert]

New commish weighs in on the PED witch-hunt in the HOF voting:

During a half-hour Q-and-A with a group of ESPN.com reporters, Manfred didn't name players such as Jeff Bagwell and Mike Piazza, whose Hall candidacies have been hurt because some voters have connected them with PED use despite a lack of definitive proof. However, he made it clear he does not believe that voters should withhold votes from players who meet [Bagwell's and Piazza's] description. Asked what he would tell the Hall of Fame about how it should handle the PED era, Manfred replied: "The only piece of advice that I'm comfortable giving is that I think that everyone should keep in mind the difference between players who tested positive and were disciplined on the one hand, and players where somebody has surmised that they did something on the other. And I think, based on what you read in the media, sometimes those lines get blurred. And I think it gets really important to keep that distinction in mind. "I think it's unfair," Manfred said, in answer to a follow-up question, "for people to surmise that Player A did X, Y or Z, absent a positive test, or proof that we produced in an investigation, or whatever. I just think it runs contrary to a very fundamental notion in our society, that you're innocent until somebody proves you're guilty."

Good for him. He obviously has more credibility on the issue than FYB did. Whether this prompts the HOF to issue guidelines which many voters have been whining for of course remains to be seen. Still, definitely cannot hurt Bagwell's chances.