Author Topic: National or Regional?  (Read 8715 times)

Uncle Charlie

  • Should Have Quit 500 Posts Ago
  • Posts: 1072
    • View Profile
National or Regional?
« on: July 14, 2014, 10:46:31 am »
This morning while driving to work I listened to an interesting discussion (to which they had no answer) as to what MLB needs to do to regain its prominence among the big sports as it relates to its stars.  It's clear that both the NFL and NBA, and to a lesser extent even Golf, have their stars.  Everyone knows them - Manning, Brady, Labron, Kobe, Tiger, to name a few but its not the same with MLB, with the exception of maybe Jeter, who is retiring.  They are instantly recognizable and in the press year round (commercials, interviews, etc).  The question is, can MLB do anything to reshape themselves to build up some of their stars to a national level?  Is it a holdover from the steroid issue?  It seems that Bonds, Big Mac and Drama Queen were huge stars - everyone knew their names, even those not "into" the game we all love.  Before them it was George Brett, Henry Aaron, Mickey Mantle...  So as we know it, is baseball bound to be a regional sport point forward, with little national enthusiasm?  If so, is that a bad thing?  Should MLB try to alter the image?

Personally, I like much of the regional aspects of baseball though I do wish there was a better job of promoting its stars, and thus the game, on a national level.  The number of games MLB plays makes this hard, as does the fundamentals of the game and how its played (an Ace pitcher only plays every five days, at best).  There are, of course, radical ideas which would certainly boost the importance of games and its stars but those are likely unworkable both from an economic perspective and integrity of the game as we know it.
The test of a true champion is how he reacts to adversity on days when it is bound to come.

roadrunner

  • Should Have Quit 500 Posts Ago
  • Posts: 2164
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2014, 11:15:37 am »
I think it's becoming more of a niche sport, in similar ways to soccer in America.  On a national level it will never compete with the NFL (nothing can in all of entertainment) or the NBA due to the fact that the NBA centers the entire sport around superstars.  Hate on players like Puig and Harper all you want, but those guys are true superstar personalities and keep the game interesting.  I am a big fan of both.

I'm not worried about the long term viability of the sport because it is too engrained in our culture, and on a regional level it's as strong as ever.  However, I would like to see some changes made to the pace of the game (cut down on mound visits, eliminate throwing 4 intentional balls for intentional walks, etc.).  I am the biggest baseball fan I know and I can't even sit through an entire game without thinking about leaving.  It's also eye-opening watching soccer during the world cup how efficient the games are without commercials.  Yeah, the game can be kind of slow, but it's only 2.5 hours and you are guaranteed at least a few truly exciting plays.  You can't say that about baseball.


subnuclear

  • Pope
  • Posts: 6116
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2014, 12:34:13 pm »
Meh, do we really want more of the riff-raff? NBA and NFL are like male soap opera. I like the fact that two of the best players in baseball, Mike Trout and Troy Tulowitzki, are kind of low profile.

My sister, who doesn't follow baseball at all, knows who Justin Verlander is because she reads about him and Kate Upton in People magazine. So there is another avenue for marketing.

I agree with the shortening of games, which has been an issue for a long time, though, so I'm not sure what can be done.

NeilT

  • Fantasy Team Owner
  • Double Super Secret Pope
  • Posts: 11670
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2014, 12:35:45 pm »
Meh, do we really want more of the riff-raff? NBA and NFL are like male soap opera. I like the fact that two of the best players in baseball, Mike Trout and Troy Tulowitzki, are kind of low profile.

My sister, who doesn't follow baseball at all, knows who Justin Verlander is because she reads about him and Kate Upton in People magazine. So there is another avenue for marketing.

I agree with the shortening of games, which has been an issue for a long time, though, so I'm not sure what can be done.

Who's Kate Upton?
"I think not having the estate tax recognizes the people that are investing... as opposed to those that are just spending every darn penny they have, whether it’s on booze or women or movies.”  Charles Grassley

jbm

  • Pope
  • Posts: 6615
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2014, 12:40:48 pm »
They could easily address the time between pitches.  That would help a lot.  

Col. Sphinx Drummond

  • Fantasy Team Owner
  • Illuminati
  • Posts: 16760
  • art is a bulwark against the irrationality of man
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2014, 01:38:26 pm »
Who's Kate Upton?
The gal that ruined Verlander's fastball.
Everyone's talking, few of them know
The rest are pretending, they put on a show
And if there's a message I guess this is it
Truth isn't easy, the easy part's shit

Mr. Happy

  • Fantasy Team Owner
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 23232
  • It's a beautiful day; let's play two
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2014, 01:40:53 pm »
The gal that ruined Verlander's fastball.

Says the guy who has Verlander on his fantasy league team..
People who cannot recognize a palpable absurdity are very much in the way of civilization. Agnes Rupellier

Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius

roadrunner

  • Should Have Quit 500 Posts Ago
  • Posts: 2164
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2014, 01:49:45 pm »
They could easily address the time between pitches.  That would help a lot.  

There is actually a clock rule or something in the rulebook, it's just never enforced.

What kills me are the multiple pitching changes/mound visits in the last 3 innings of the game.  I would implement a rule that a manager can only visit the mound once per game with every other visit requiring a pitching change.  The catcher can visit the mound on his own no more than twice per game.

I'm not sure what else you can do to improve the pace without having a substantial effect on the way the game is played.  Experimenting with pitch clocks in the minors probably isn't a bad idea, if anything just to encourage faster pace before they reach the big leagues.

austro

  • Fantasy Team Owner
  • Illuminati
  • Posts: 19637
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2014, 08:47:00 pm »
There is actually a clock rule or something in the rulebook, it's just never enforced.

What kills me are the multiple pitching changes/mound visits in the last 3 innings of the game.  I would implement a rule that a manager can only visit the mound once per game with every other visit requiring a pitching change.  The catcher can visit the mound on his own no more than twice per game.

I'm not sure what else you can do to improve the pace without having a substantial effect on the way the game is played.  Experimenting with pitch clocks in the minors probably isn't a bad idea, if anything just to encourage faster pace before they reach the big leagues.

I think you could have a substantial effect just by insisting that the batters stay in the damn box.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
Up and down the M1 in some luminous yo-yo toy
But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

Ron Brand

  • Contributor
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 22329
  • Smoke 'em inside.
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2014, 12:19:43 am »
I think you could have a substantial effect just by insisting that the batters stay in the damn box.

I was just looking at this the other day and was struck by the same thing. Mantle stays in the box between pitches, and the pitcher gets the ball around the rubber and goes right back to pitching. Man, I miss that.
I'm in love with rock and roll and I'll be out all night.

chuck

  • Contributor
  • Double Super Secret Pope
  • Posts: 12495
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2014, 01:03:11 am »
I was just looking at this the other day and was struck by the same thing. Mantle stays in the box between pitches, and the pitcher gets the ball around the rubber and goes right back to pitching. Man, I miss that.

He wasn't wearing batting gloves so there was nothing to stand there and dick with after every pitch. Jim Bouton said you could shave an hour off of each game if you'd just outlaw velcro.
Y todo lo que sube baja
pregúntale a Pedro Navaja

mrpink

  • Prime Time Player
  • Posts: 915
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2014, 07:02:42 am »
The gal that ruined Verlander's fastball.
I'd make that trade.

VirtualBob

  • Pope
  • Posts: 5630
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2014, 11:12:27 am »
I was just looking at this the other day and was struck by the same thing. Mantle stays in the box between pitches, and the pitcher gets the ball around the rubber and goes right back to pitching. Man, I miss that.
Exactly!
Up in the Air

roadrunner

  • Should Have Quit 500 Posts Ago
  • Posts: 2164
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2014, 07:00:09 pm »
Atlantic League adopting some rules to speed up the game.  I'd be fine if all of these were transitioned to MLB.

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/story/26048784/atlantic-league-implementing-revolutionary-rules-to-quicken-pace-of-games

jbm

  • Pope
  • Posts: 6615
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2014, 07:27:25 pm »
I can't imagine that automatically substituting a substitute runner for the catcher will ever be adopted.

Have they estimated how much time these proposals will save?  I doubt it is much.

austro

  • Fantasy Team Owner
  • Illuminati
  • Posts: 19637
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2014, 07:50:12 pm »
Roland Hemond is still around? He was with the White Sox during my HS years in Chicago in the early 70s.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
Up and down the M1 in some luminous yo-yo toy
But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

roadrunner

  • Should Have Quit 500 Posts Ago
  • Posts: 2164
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2014, 09:26:13 pm »
I can't imagine that automatically substituting a substitute runner for the catcher will ever be adopted.

Have they estimated how much time these proposals will save?  I doubt it is much.

The catcher is the thing I can't see changing.  If they could shave off 10 minutes I think it would be a big success.  The main thing is they are cutting down on break time with no action.

HudsonHawk

  • Administrator
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 42689
  • Gentleman About Town
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2014, 10:46:42 pm »
The catcher is the thing I can't see changing.  If they could shave off 10 minutes I think it would be a big success.  The main thing is they are cutting down on break time with no action.

I can't imagine having an attention span so short that 10 minutes either say would make a difference.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

roadrunner

  • Should Have Quit 500 Posts Ago
  • Posts: 2164
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2014, 07:28:33 am »
I can't imagine having an attention span so short that 10 minutes either say would make a difference.

I think it's more about keeping the fans engaged.  Mound visits, pitching changes, etc. are perfect opportunities for you to discuss whether or not you should leave the game early.

juliogotay

  • Pope
  • Posts: 8738
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2014, 09:17:31 am »
I can't imagine having an attention span so short that 10 minutes either say would make a difference.

I agree with you but I think that may be where we are today.

NeilT

  • Fantasy Team Owner
  • Double Super Secret Pope
  • Posts: 11670
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2014, 09:38:36 am »
I can't imagine having an attention span so short that 10 minutes either say would make a difference.

Gotta start somewheres.

How 'bout this.  All that stuff, plus a shot clock with a loud buzzer to time pitches.
"I think not having the estate tax recognizes the people that are investing... as opposed to those that are just spending every darn penny they have, whether it’s on booze or women or movies.”  Charles Grassley

Uncle Charlie

  • Should Have Quit 500 Posts Ago
  • Posts: 1072
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2014, 10:29:04 am »
Speeding the game up:
1. Create a finite number of times that a player or coach may call time (or time out) to visit the mound. 
2. Enforce the 12-second pitch rule which already exists.  Call the ball and if that's not enough make it a balk when runners are on base.
3. Allow each batter to only step out of the box once in an AB, with the exception for medical attention or broken equipment.

These are very simple rules and will speed the game up tremendously, as discussed in numerous posts above.

Back to the question about regional vs. national.  I'm okay with regional because I don't want to see the game change much - which I think would have to happen to truly make it national.  The one change I do think would help make the game a bit more exciting through the year is a national tournament, played during the season, similar to that of the NCAA tourney or FA cup in soccer.  Cut the games back down to 154 games from 162, introduce short, 3 game series in a 5-round elimination tournament played over the course of 5 months, with one round per month.  This would likely incorporate some Cinderella type stories, while also forcing teams doing well in league play and tournament play to make some choices regarding pitching - throw an Ace in the tournament give an extra days rest and focus on the league?  Also creates some form of playoff atmosphere at least one weekend a month through the entire season.
The test of a true champion is how he reacts to adversity on days when it is bound to come.

Ty in Tampa

  • Contributor
  • Pope
  • Posts: 9111
  • You just gotta keep livin' man, L-I-V-I-N
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2014, 12:38:37 pm »
Speeding the game up:
1. Create a finite number of times that a player or coach may call time (or time out) to visit the mound. 
2. Enforce the 12-second pitch rule which already exists.  Call the ball and if that's not enough make it a balk when runners are on base.
3. Allow each batter to only step out of the box once in an AB, with the exception for medical attention or broken equipment.

These are very simple rules and will speed the game up tremendously, as discussed in numerous posts above.

And they are perfectly reasonable.
"You want me broken. You want me dead.
I'm living rent-free in the back of your head."

austro

  • Fantasy Team Owner
  • Illuminati
  • Posts: 19637
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2014, 09:00:47 pm »
My change to #3 would be that you can step out after a foul ball, or if evading the previous pitch caused you to leave the box. That takes care of fouling balls off your shin, foot, or whatever, and collecting your wits after diving out of the way of a chin ball. Everybody else stays in the damn box, which means that the pitcher can pitch as soon as he's ready. I'll bet that's good for 30 minutes/game.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
Up and down the M1 in some luminous yo-yo toy
But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

roadrunner

  • Should Have Quit 500 Posts Ago
  • Posts: 2164
    • View Profile

Mr. Happy

  • Fantasy Team Owner
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 23232
  • It's a beautiful day; let's play two
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2014, 09:21:22 am »
My change to #3 would be that you can step out after a foul ball, or if evading the previous pitch caused you to leave the box. That takes care of fouling balls off your shin, foot, or whatever, and collecting your wits after diving out of the way of a chin ball. Everybody else stays in the damn box, which means that the pitcher can pitch as soon as he's ready. I'll bet that's good for 30 minutes/game.

This is a great idea. Hitters try to achieve maximum prep for every pitch by stepping out, which is bullshit.
People who cannot recognize a palpable absurdity are very much in the way of civilization. Agnes Rupellier

Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius

subnuclear

  • Pope
  • Posts: 6116
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2014, 09:33:19 am »
http://deadspin.com/baseball-will-test-out-six-new-rules-to-speed-up-the-ga-1641283166

Some of these are good, eliminating some commercial time would help too.

Most of what slows the game down is bad pitching.

Mr. Happy

  • Fantasy Team Owner
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 23232
  • It's a beautiful day; let's play two
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2014, 09:44:05 am »
Some of these are good, eliminating some commercial time would help too.

Most of what slows the game down is bad pitching.

You have lurched into the truth, and why the games won't speed up-time is money in the form of advertising.
People who cannot recognize a palpable absurdity are very much in the way of civilization. Agnes Rupellier

Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius

HudsonHawk

  • Administrator
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 42689
  • Gentleman About Town
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2014, 10:12:05 am »
Some of these are good, eliminating some commercial time would help too.

Most of what slows the game down is bad pitching.

Call the strike zone then.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

Reuben

  • Pope
  • Posts: 8852
    • View Profile
    • art
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2014, 11:19:36 am »
http://deadspin.com/baseball-will-test-out-six-new-rules-to-speed-up-the-ga-1641283166

Only 3 non-pitching-change mound visits per game, including catcher visits? That seems rather extreme.
"Come check us out in the Game Zone. We don’t bite. Unless you say something idiotic." -Mr. Happy

NeilT

  • Fantasy Team Owner
  • Double Super Secret Pope
  • Posts: 11670
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2014, 11:26:13 am »
Only 3 non-pitching-change mound visits per game, including catcher visits? That seems rather extreme.

Put a radio in their new padded pitcher's cap. Is that against the rules?
"I think not having the estate tax recognizes the people that are investing... as opposed to those that are just spending every darn penny they have, whether it’s on booze or women or movies.”  Charles Grassley

juliogotay

  • Pope
  • Posts: 8738
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2014, 11:44:24 am »
Call the strike zone then.

I think this would be step #1. Especially with the increased emphasis on hitters to "work the pitcher". Or just clone Hunter Pence 400xs.

roadrunner

  • Should Have Quit 500 Posts Ago
  • Posts: 2164
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2014, 12:47:14 pm »
Only 3 non-pitching-change mound visits per game, including catcher visits? That seems rather extreme.

Really?  I think over 2 is already sort of excessive.

jbm

  • Pope
  • Posts: 6615
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2014, 12:58:01 pm »
Put a radio in their new padded pitcher's cap. Is that against the rules?

To streamline communication, clubs just need those big pictures football teams use on the sideline.  When a Astro hurler is having trouble, Hinch can raise a picture of an egg frying on a Fresno sidewalk.

Dark Star

  • Veteran Role Player
  • Posts: 483
  • Stella Obscura
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2014, 02:09:10 pm »
You cannot change it, but it seems to me there are (a lot?) more in-game pitching changes than there used to be.

Every one of those is several mind-numbing minutes long.
Shall we go, you and I, while we can,
Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds?

juliogotay

  • Pope
  • Posts: 8738
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2014, 03:26:52 pm »
To streamline communication, clubs just need those big pictures football teams use on the sideline.  When a Astro hurler is having trouble, Hinch can raise a picture of an egg frying on a Fresno sidewalk.

Funny.

rpntex

  • Disappointing Rookie
  • Posts: 48
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #36 on: October 02, 2014, 03:44:22 pm »
The gal that ruined Verlander's fastball.

That's what he gets for giving her the high hard one...

NeilT

  • Fantasy Team Owner
  • Double Super Secret Pope
  • Posts: 11670
    • View Profile
"I think not having the estate tax recognizes the people that are investing... as opposed to those that are just spending every darn penny they have, whether it’s on booze or women or movies.”  Charles Grassley

BlownRanger

  • Prime Time Player
  • Posts: 661
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2014, 04:04:54 pm »
You cannot change it, but it seems to me there are (a lot?) more in-game pitching changes than there used to be.

Every one of those is several mind-numbing minutes long.

Managers used to have the interesting idea that when George Brett strode to the plate, they might be better off leaving the decent right-handed reliever in the game instead of going to the lousy left-hander.  That kind of thinking will now get them fired.
"He hit that one right up the poop chute, Bill" - Enos Cabell

subnuclear

  • Pope
  • Posts: 6116
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #39 on: October 02, 2014, 04:18:11 pm »
You cannot change it, but it seems to me there are (a lot?) more in-game pitching changes than there used to be.

Every one of those is several mind-numbing minutes long.

I don't know if it takes up that much time, but it kills the flow of the game. There must be something they can do.

subnuclear

  • Pope
  • Posts: 6116
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #40 on: October 02, 2014, 04:19:51 pm »
You have lurched into the truth, and why the games won't speed up-time is money in the form of advertising.

You also get more money for more people watching/attending.

Duman

  • Contributor
  • Pope
  • Posts: 5446
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #41 on: October 02, 2014, 06:23:17 pm »
I don't know if it takes up that much time, but it kills the flow of the game. There must be something they can do.

It is not the pitching change that slows the game down as much as the full commercial break they take. 
Always ready to go to a game.

Mr. Happy

  • Fantasy Team Owner
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 23232
  • It's a beautiful day; let's play two
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #42 on: October 02, 2014, 07:15:57 pm »
It is not the pitching change that slows the game down as much as the full commercial break they take. 

Bingo.
People who cannot recognize a palpable absurdity are very much in the way of civilization. Agnes Rupellier

Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius

Dark Star

  • Veteran Role Player
  • Posts: 483
  • Stella Obscura
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2014, 08:29:06 am »
It is not the pitching change that slows the game down as much as the full commercial break they take.  

Well, I mean, really.  Would you rather watch some fat, overpaid reliever throw 8-9 warm up tosses? Or, find out how you are a man who makes choices nowadays, and fixes things when they are broke? All set to an all-time classic blues song ("Smokestack Lightning"), that, whenever I find out who is responsible for the decision to use the Howlin' Wolf oeuvre to advertise male ED products, is going to be responsible for one dead ad man.
Shall we go, you and I, while we can,
Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds?

HudsonHawk

  • Administrator
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 42689
  • Gentleman About Town
    • View Profile
Re: National or Regional?
« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2014, 09:16:25 am »
Well, I mean, really.  Would you rather watch some fat, overpaid reliever throw 8-9 warm up tosses? Or, find out how you are a man who makes choices nowadays, and fixes things when they are broke? All set to an all-time classic blues song ("Smokestack Lightning"), that, whenever I find out who is responsible for the decision to use the Howlin' Wolf oeuvre to advertise male ED products, is going to be responsible for one dead ad man.

Wait a second...Viagra is a boner pill? 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.