Porter has to go

[Mr. Happy]

I don't say that lightly. I've been thinking about this for a while. Today's fuck up call on Qualls for the blown save has pushed me over the edge. You ease a guy who hasn't worked in eight fucking days back in by using him in an easy game, like yesterday's blowout, not in a save situation like today. Last night's stupid tantrum didn't help him either. I've questioned Porter's batting orders and in-game decisions on several occasions too.

[Fredia]

in total agreement 
send someone with experience to ease those  without

[morningwood75]

Anyone starting to worry that this rebuilding plan may fail miserably? I think our farm might be overrated honestly...a lot of our top prospects have pretty big flaws (strike out a lot or unrefined secondaries). I really hope that the number one overall picks live up to the hype and that Luhnow can swing some decent trades in the next couple of years. The free agent class looks pretty weak when it comes to position players after this season which really sucks (Rasmus, Hanley who is a douche and will probably get big money from LAD, Sandoval who has major weight issues, Headley). It was why I was not opposed to trying to bring in Choo and would not have minded if they had spent big for Abreu. There should be some decent pitching, though (Shields, Scherzer, Masterson, possibly Lester, etc).

[jbm]

Anyone starting to worry that this rebuilding plan may fail miserably? I think our farm might be overrated honestly...a lot of our top prospects have pretty big flaws (strike out a lot or unrefined secondaries). I really hope that the number one overall picks live up to the hype and that Luhnow can swing some decent trades in the next couple of years. The free agent class looks pretty weak when it comes to position players after this season which really sucks (Rasmus, Hanley who is a douche and will probably get big money from LAD, Sandoval who has major weight issues, Headley). It was why I was not opposed to trying to bring in Choo and would not have minded if they had spent big for Abreu. There should be some decent pitching, though (Shields, Scherzer, Masterson, possibly Lester, etc).

As someone who has always been baffled by the "Luhnow is god" sentiment, I think the recent worrying, while healthy and deserved, is over-shooting in the opposite direction. In other words, while I think Luhnow is having some growing pains, the long-term trajectory still looks positive to me.  I'm more worried about the long-term financial health of the club than I am about the rebuilding plan.

[Mr. Happy]

As someone who has always been baffled by the "Luhnow is god" sentiment, I think the recent worrying, while healthy and deserved, is over-shooting in the opposite direction. In other words, while I think Luhnow is having some growing pains, the long-term trajectory still looks positive to me.  I'm more worried about the long-term financial health of the club than I am about the rebuilding plan.

I certainly don't share the "Luhnow is God" sentiment, but I do have a lot of respect and admiration for what he accomplished with his drafts in St. Louis and hope that he can replicate that here. I've liked his drafts so far. However, I share your concern about the finances of the team as well as the rest of MLB, which seems to be banking on major television money that isn't materializing in several big markets.

[David in Jackson]

Porter's complaints about Lowery yesterday were bush league.  He's also shown he doesn't know the rules for replacing pitchers or how to challenge a call correctly using reply.  I've been a true believer on the complete overhaul rebuild and know that we hired a manager to lose 100 games for a year or two (at least I hope it's a year or two), but I'm starting to worry about everything and it's only April.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

FWIW, Porter's decision making was questionable from the moment he chose to take the reigns of Crane's wheeless burning wagon, that was dumb. Game decisions pale in comparison. Who is going to be better? It's so easy to second guess game decisions. Porter has made his share of mistakes but this is a historically bad team. Joe Maddon couldn't win 65 games with this roster. It's got to be excruciatingly frustrating trying to get a bad team to play well.

Who else are you going to get to Captain a rudderless sinking ship but the guy you already have? He's a kamikaze pilot, they're not easy to find. I can't bag on him too much for that, instead I choose to honor him for that sacrifice, that disregard for the long term health of his career.

[chuck]

I think the manager is a perfect fit given the quality of the team's players and the professionalism of the team's ownership.

Thinking that a couple of 19 years olds in A-ball are going to keep the Astros from turning into an all-time joke of a franchise, the Bengals of baseball but worse, seems insane to me.

[Mr. Happy]

FWIW, Porter's decision making was questionable from the moment he chose to take the reigns of Crane's wheeless burning wagon, that was dumb. Game decisions pale in comparison. Who is going to be better? It's so easy to second guess game decisions. Porter has made his share of mistakes but this is a historically bad team. Joe Maddon couldn't win 65 games with this roster. It's got to be excruciatingly frustrating trying to get a bad team to play well.

Who else are you going to get to Captain a rudderless sinking ship but the guy you already have? He's a kamikaze pilot, they're not easy to find. I can't bag on him too much for that, instead I choose to honor him for that sacrifice, that disregard for the long term health of his career.

Did you even read about the past few days? Porter exhibits poor judgment regularly. I have seen enough to make this conclusion.

[HudsonHawk]

To everyone bitching about the manager...seriously, what in God's name made you think this team was not going to lead the league in strikeouts, lead the league in blown saves, lead the league in getting shut out, and lose 110 games? 

[Fredia]

hope

[subnuclear]

To everyone bitching about the manager...seriously, what in God's name made you think this team was not going to lead the league in strikeouts, lead the league in blown saves, lead the league in getting shut out, and lose 110 games? 

Well, someone with a deep knowledge of the game bet 70 wins on RFTL, so my hopes are up.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Did you even read about the past few days? Porter exhibits poor judgment regularly. I have seen enough to make this conclusion.

Did you know Qualls was going to blow the game? Do know something about the readiness of the bullpen that maybe the coaches and manager don't? I respect your opinion regarding baseball matters, you certainly know more about pitching than I ever will. But, I don't think Porter is as bad as you obviously do.

Any proven manager would tell Crane to go the fuck away and don't come back 'til you have a full team of MLB quality players. Until then, Crane's only going to be able to hire inexperienced and unproven guys. I don't know how much managers get paid but I would guess Porter is at the very bottom of the list because that is how the owner runs things. He would rather hire 10 more bean counters than a proven baseball man. All managers make dumb moves, Dierker made dumb moves, Williams made dumb moves, Garner, Cooper, Mills...

[Reuben]

Ron Washington... Tony LaRussa...

[Dark Star]

To everyone bitching about the manager...seriously, what in God's name made you think this team was not going to lead the league in strikeouts, lead the league in blown saves, lead the league in getting shut out, and lose 110 games? 

Wow. We didn't even make it to Easter.

[Mr. Happy]

Did you know Qualls was going to blow the game? Do know something about the readiness of the bullpen that maybe the coaches and manager don't? I respect your opinion regarding baseball matters, you certainly know more about pitching than I ever will. But, I don't think Porter is as bad as you obviously do.

Any proven manager would tell Crane to go the fuck away and don't come back 'til you have a full team of MLB quality players. Until then, Crane's only going to be able to hire inexperienced and unproven guys. I don't know how much managers get paid but I would guess Porter is at the very bottom of the list because that is how the owner runs things. He would rather hire 10 more bean counters than a proven baseball man. All managers make dumb moves, Dierker made dumb moves, Williams made dumb moves, Garner, Cooper, Mills...

Check out yesterday's Game Zone. I objected immediately upon his announcement. The man was weak with the flu bug and hadn't thrown in eight days, yet he was the logical choice to save a close game? Uh, no. That's my point. Of course, Fields might have blown it too, but I wouldn't have bitched near as much because this one was, in my opinion, definitely foreseeable.

I was already upset with Porter over the shitty example he set for the team by bitching to high heaven about Lowrie's attempted bunt into the shift the day before. The shift drives me crazy any way because it is so easily beaten. The defensive positions are where they are for a reason. I don't care what the fucking score is in the first inning. You score as much as you can because you don't know how many the other team will score. That's why Porter's position is indefensible.

I know that JimR is going to give me shit for being negative, and I don't do so lightly, so I don't care. Porter is bush league who, in my opinion, can't manage well either.

[roadrunner]

Porter is an idiot.

[subnuclear]

Wow. We didn't even make it to Easter.

We are a pretty messed up fan base at this point.

[Mr. Happy]

Wow. We didn't even make it to Easter.

In all fairness, Easter was late this year.

[NeilT]

We are a pretty messed up fan base at this point.

Yeah.

[pots]

Anyone starting to worry that this rebuilding plan may fail miserably? I think our farm might be overrated honestly...a lot of our top prospects have pretty big flaws (strike out a lot or unrefined secondaries).

No concern at all.  2015 has always been the target.  The big time talent all moved up a level.  High A, AA and AAA now are stacked where, Low A, High A and AA were stacked last year.  Next year Carter, Guzman and Presley won't have a chance of making the Astros roster. 

[Mr. Happy]

No concern at all.  2015 has always been the target.  The big time talent all moved up a level.  High A, AA and AAA now are stacked where, Low A, High A and AA were stacked last year.  Next year Carter, Guzman and Presley won't have a chance of making the Astros roster. 

Agreed on all scores. The future is bright.

[HudsonHawk]

Well, someone with a deep knowledge of the game bet 70 wins on RFTL, so my hopes are up.

Only because I didn't want to deal with the shit of predicting 38 wins.

[roadrunner]

I agree the future appears bright, but it is by no means a sure thing.  That is the most concerning/scary element of this entire Extreme Makeover: MLB Edition.  That and the entire TV operations piece of it.

[Reuben]

No concern at all.  2015 has always been the target.  The big time talent all moved up a level.  High A, AA and AAA now are stacked where, Low A, High A and AA were stacked last year.  Next year Carter, Guzman and Presley won't have a chance of making the Astros roster. 

I had been looking forward to 2015 as well, because there's a very good chance Springer, Singleton, Folty, Stassi and perhaps Appel will all start the year on the roster, with Santana likely called up during the season and Correa, DeShields, and (draft pending) Rodon possibilities as well. But even great, All-Star caliber players often don't click right away in the majors. It could take a year or two or three of playing together at the MLB level before they really start to hit their stride. That would be a huge bummer - not to mention the fact that some of them likely won't ever amount to much, or will be derailed by injuries - but taking a realistic view, you have to acknowledge it very easily could be the case.

There's also the issue of whether the whole franchise is just fuckin' cursed, and mired in an inescapable quicksand of suck that causes every single player in uniform to slump at once, sometimes for an entire season or more.

[geezerdonk]

Poor Bo. No one will ever know whether he can manage at the major league level. He will be long gone before the Astros will have a roster that could play .500 ball in the PCL and his record will be so bad that he will probably never get another shot. But, as SD pointed out, his judgment is highly suspect based on him talking the job in the first place. Any one with an ounce of baseball savy had to know that this is a dead end job with no hope. Bo is going to be miserable for as long as he is associated with this team. Firing him might qualify as a Corporal Act of Mercy.

[geezerdonk]

Ruiz might be in that group to get a call up during 2015.

[JimR]

WFW, all of you.

[Mr. Happy]

WFW, all of you.

I'm so glad that you weighed in, Coach!!!

[Fredia]

at least astros fans can blame him and not the team.. brillant

[OregonStrosFan]

WFW, all of you.

And once again, all seems right with the world.  Thanks Coach!

[NeilT]

WFW, all of you.

Yeah.

[das]

This all makes my hair hurt. Did anyone expect Porter to make lemon aid out of these lemons?  He was well regarded by the Nats and was a Manager finalist in three other MLB club searches. The MLB community knows what he has had to deal with. Anyone that thinks his career will be mortally wounded by the experience is not paying attention to MLB history or the business of management in general.

Likewise, it's not reasonable to expect normal management machinations from Porter. He does not have the same set of tools that his peers have so we should not expect to see similar moves. Some will be desperation, some will be motivation, some will be smart and some won't be but the way a leader manages when consistently at a distinct disadvantage is very different than how a leader manages from a position of strength.

Regarding his outburst, anyone here talk to him about his motivations?  Anyone ever see a manager "manufacture" a scene to motivate his team?  I've been very impressed with how Porter has kept his cool during an exceedingly trying time. In my mind, he still has a significant backlog of pent up irrational outbursts to work through before I even begin to think poorly of the guy.

[NeilT]

This all makes my hair hurt. Did anyone expect Porter to make lemon aid out of these lemons?  He was well regarded by the Nats and was a Manager finalist in three other MLB club searches. The MLB community knows what he has had to deal with. Anyone that thinks his career will be mortally wounded by the experience is not paying attention to MLB history or the business of management in general.

Likewise, it's not reasonable to expect normal management machinations from Porter. He does not have the same set of tools that his peers have so we should not expect to see similar moves. Some will be desperation, some will be motivation, some will be smart and some won't be but the way a leader manages when consistently at a distinct disadvantage is very different than how a leader manages from a position of strength.

Regarding his outburst, anyone here talk to him about his motivations?  Anyone ever see a manager "manufacture" a scene to motivate his team?  I've been very impressed with how Porter has kept his cool during an exceedingly trying time. In my mind, he still has a significant backlog of pent up irrational outbursts to work through before I even begin to think poorly of the guy.

Yeah.

[Mr. Happy]

This all makes my hair hurt. Did anyone expect Porter to make lemon aid out of these lemons?  He was well regarded by the Nats and was a Manager finalist in three other MLB club searches. The MLB community knows what he has had to deal with. Anyone that thinks his career will be mortally wounded by the experience is not paying attention to MLB history or the business of management in general.

Likewise, it's not reasonable to expect normal management machinations from Porter. He does not have the same set of tools that his peers have so we should not expect to see similar moves. Some will be desperation, some will be motivation, some will be smart and some won't be but the way a leader manages when consistently at a distinct disadvantage is very different than how a leader manages from a position of strength.

Regarding his outburst, anyone here talk to him about his motivations?  Anyone ever see a manager "manufacture" a scene to motivate his team?  I've been very impressed with how Porter has kept his cool during an exceedingly trying time. In my mind, he still has a significant backlog of pent up irrational outbursts to work through before I even begin to think poorly of the guy.

I certainly didn't intend to hurt your precious hair. I'm not saying that you are wrong. However, to excuse the obvious mistake in bringing in Qualls on saturday is asking forgiveness of a significant sin. In my opinion, Qualls should have been used, if at all prior to his getting back to health, in the blowout that happened friday night, not trying to save a game that the Astros needed to win in order to break a losing streak after having not been out there for eight days. Wins are too hard to come by for this team to piss any away, whcih Porter certainly did. Moreover, Porter compounded his mistake by sitting on his hands and not having anyone else warming up in the bully after he ran Qualls out there. He was literally playing with himself while Qualls imploded and blew the game. It was epic. I saw it coming from the minute that Qualls was announced and said so in the GZ.

I'll go ahead and give Porter the benefit of the doubt that he was simply trying to bolster the troops. However, did you see Lowrie's comments after the friday game? He said that he was "flabbergasted" by the outburst. On its face, irrespective of any purposeful attempt to rally the troops, Porter looked very foolish to me for lecturing Lowrie about the game. It was the fucking first inning, and Porter had put on the shift. Did it ever occur to Porter that someone, anyone, even David Fucking Ortiz, might attempt to bunt their way on to beat the shift? To me, that is very foreseeable. It was way too early in the game to be pissing and moaning about the A's piling on. Code schmode. It was the god damn first frame for crying out loud.

[BudGirl]

For all purposes, it is the same team that was there last season, with a few exceptions.  I question why I really had different expectations. 

[geezerdonk]

Any player who uses the word flabbergasted deserves to get dusted.

[Mr. Happy]

For all purposes, it is the same team that was there last season, with a few exceptions.  I question why I really had different expectations. 

In RFTL, I said 65 wins because I was wishing and hoping for a 14 game improvement, which looks pretty foolish 19 games into the season. My original prediction, 59, may be a long shot too. Perhaps our "gentleman about town" is correct about 38 wins.

[pots]

For all purposes, it is the same team that was there last season, with a few exceptions.  I question why I really had different expectations. 

Because this year's team is slightly better than last year's team.  They are way under-performing right now.  Way way under-performing.  Under-performing at ridiculous rates.  

The sample size is poor.  One would assume they are about to beat the living snot out of some random team to offset their current performance.

[juliogotay]

I figured just cutting down on the blown saves with a better pen would give them maybe ten more wins. Crain being out has hurt. I think he needs to settle on a closer.

[astrosfan76]

Because this year's team is slightly better than last year's team.  They are way under-performing right now.  Way way under-performing.  Under-performing at ridiculous rates.  

The sample size is poor.  One would assume they are about to beat the living snot out of some random team to offset their current performance.

Yep. Offense still sucks, but not quite as bad as last season. Rotation still has question marks, but not as many as last season, with guys like Wojo and White not far away from rehabbing. Bullpen is better and should end up as a plus, adding Crain will help, also. Defensively, they've been better this year, with the only detrimental piece having already been sent down.

[jbm]

I agree. Luhnow assembled a better team this year, IMO. I expect their record, by the end of the year, will be significantly better than last year, but I do sometimes worry about Reuben's quicksand of suck scenario.

[Fredia]

Reuben's quicksand of suck scenario.     maybe post all negativity under this site

[HudsonHawk]

Because this year's team is slightly better than last year's team.  They are way under-performing right now.  Way way under-performing.  Under-performing at ridiculous rates.  

The sample size is poor.  One would assume they are about to beat the living snot out of some random team to offset their current performance.

Why would you assume that?  What in the history of the last few years makes you think they are capable of such a feat?

[juliogotay]

Are they due for some hits to drop in. Their BABIP can't stay this low much longer.

[chuck]

Their BABIP can't stay this low much longer.

I think it can since other teams don't employ a shift 80% of the time like the Astros do.

[austro]

I think it can since other teams don't employ a shift 80% of the time like the Astros do.

What kind of shift would you employ against the Astros? Bring all of the outfielders into the infield?

[juliogotay]

What kind of shift would you employ against the Astros? Bring all of the outfielders into the infield?

Save one for backing up the catcher in case the ball gets through on strike three.

[hostros7]

Save one for backing up the catcher in case the ball gets through on strike three.

Gold

[Mr. Happy]

Save one for backing up the catcher in case the ball gets through on strike three.

Or, the fielders could do like the King & His Court and go sit down while the King pitched.

[NeilT]

Save one for backing up the catcher in case the ball gets through on strike three.

Strike three?

[Ty in Tampa]

Great thread. I don't know whether to be happy people care or disgusted that they care.

[Fredia]

some addictions you just cant break