The Shift

[Ron Brand]

Interesting article, unfortunately bereft of hard evidence, about the Astros' use of defensive shifts.

"I think it's natural and human nature when you turn around and you see a ball go through a spot where all your life you've seen an infielder there, you're going to feel like something's wrong," Luhnow said. "When you turn around and you see an infielder catch a ball where in the past it wouldn't have been a catch, you're happy, but you don't really give it the same amount of credit as you deduct credit for the one that goes through.

"It's human nature. We all do it. I just think it's part of it. We're going to have some players that are going to resist it, and we're just going to have work through it."

[Reuben]

I'm glad that he realizes "You have to be flexible, because some hitters are going to figure out a way to adjust to it, and some aren't. You have to continue to learn, but we do feel like it's been a benefit to us and will continue to be a benefit."

[jbm]

As long as they are being intellectually honest with themselves, then all is good. 

[Mr. Happy]

The shift would irritate me, but I'd definitely fall into the camp that Luhnow references, expressly noting when the shift didn't work and giving short shrift to the times when it did.

[HudsonHawk]

I understand it can make sense with certain hitters. You're willing to risk a certain part of the field to place fielders where those guys hit the ball most often. But traditional fielding positions are where they are for a reason. 

[VirtualBob]

I understand it can make sense with certain hitters. You're willing to risk a certain part of the field to place fielders where those guys hit the ball most often. But traditional fielding positions are where they are for a reason. 

This is starting to look like cricket. Now we just need to bring the SS in to play silly mid-on.

[NeilT]

This is starting to look like cricket. Now we just need to bring the SS in to play silly mid-on.

Isn't that where the SS started?

[Limey]

Isn't that where the SS started?

FWIW, Silly Mid On is closer to being a charging 3Ber than a SS - about 45 degrees off the line of the pitch, and about 20 feet from the batter.

Also, when the hitter is left-handed, the "on" part of the position shifts to the other side; "on" being behind the batter's legs and "off" being in front.

Lastly, most images you'll see for someone fielding so close to the batter that it's "silly", is usually Forward Short Leg.  In comparison, Silly Mid On is quite sensible.

[ValpoCory]

I was pleasantly surprised how often the shift worked perfectly for Houston in the Rangers series.  I think it's here to stay, at least until hitters adjust.

[jaklewein]

I was pleasantly surprised how often the shift worked perfectly for Houston in the Rangers series.  I think it's here to stay, at least until hitters adjust.

Most of the shifts I've seen continue to play the OF straight away.  I don't know how many hitters (especially your middle of the order hitters with power) will want to adjust.  Their payoff for doing so is basically a single.

[astrosfan76]

I was pleasantly surprised how often the shift worked perfectly for Houston in the Rangers series.  I think it's here to stay, at least until hitters adjust.

Bonds was particularly adept at being able to make adjustments.  In his case, though it was more of seeing fielders (even outfielders) begin to cheat and reading what the pitch should be: CF leans toward LF, look away.  I don't really remember seeing him face shifts where the fielders were already stationed in a different area than they would traditionally be, though.  I'm sure he did (and it may have happened frequently), but I do remember him being able to read the defense and make adjustments accordingly.   

[Mr. Happy]

Bonds was particularly adept at being able to make adjustments.  In his case, though it was more of seeing fielders (even outfielders) begin to cheat and reading what the pitch should be: CF leans toward LF, look away.  I don't really remember seeing him face shifts where the fielders were already stationed in a different area than they would traditionally be, though.  I'm sure he did (and it may have happened frequently), but I do remember him being able to read the defense and make adjustments accordingly.   

Barry Bonds may have been the finest hitter I ever saw play. He had hand-eye coordination out the wazoo. You can say or think what you want about Bonds and whether he juiced, but the juice doesn't improve hand-eye. You either have it or you don't.

[Limey]

Barry Bonds may have been the finest hitter I ever saw play. He had hand-eye coordination out the wazoo. You can say or think what you want about Bonds and whether he juiced, but the juice doesn't improve hand-eye. You either have it or you don't.

(1)  He did juice, and

(2)  The juice helps you
(a)  train harder
(b)  recover quicker
(c)  be stronger

Strength and endurance mean that you will hit the ball harder, and be able to do it when you may otherwise have been injured or be recovering from injury.  Yes, you have to hit the ball, but the juice helps you hit it farther, and keeps you at the plate when you might otherwise not be fit to hit.

[Mr. Happy]

(1)  He did juice, and

(2)  The juice helps you
(a)  train harder
(b)  recover quicker
(c)  be stronger

Strength and endurance mean that you will hit the ball harder, and be able to do it when you may otherwise have been injured or be recovering from injury.  Yes, you have to hit the ball, but the juice helps you hit it farther, and keeps you at the plate when you might otherwise not be fit to hit.

Proof? My point was that the juice, even if he used it, didn't help him hit .328 to .370 at ages 36-39. You could juice me up to the moon and I wouldn't hit .050 because I can't hit.

[Reuben]

Proof? My point was that the juice, even if he used it, didn't help him hit .328 to .370 at ages 36-39. You could juice me up to the moon and I wouldn't hit .050 because I can't hit.

Obviously Bonds had HOF talent, and probably Top-10-ever talent, but the juice elevated him from that to Babe Ruth level in the early 2000's, and then probably allowed him to keep playing at a very high level as he approached 40. I think we're past the point of doubting whether he actually used steroids, aren't we?

[Mr. Happy]

Obviously Bonds had HOF talent, and probably Top-10-ever talent, but the juice elevated him from that to Babe Ruth level in the early 2000's, and then probably allowed him to keep playing at a very high level as he approached 40. I think we're past the point of doubting whether he actually used steroids, aren't we?

No, I'm not past that point at all. We all just assume that. Bonds eclipsed 40 home runs eight times in his career, beginning in 1993 at 28. He declined precipitously at age 41, whcih you'd expect even if he was still juicing.

[Bench]

Obviously Bonds had HOF talent, and probably Top-10-ever talent, but the juice elevated him from that to Babe Ruth level in the early 2000's, and then probably allowed him to keep playing at a very high level as he approached 40. I think we're past the point of doubting whether he actually used steroids, aren't we?

Using Roger Clemens' reasoning, a unanimous jury of his peers found beyond a reasonable doubt that Barry Bonds never used steroids. 

[mrpink]

Proof? My point was that the juice, even if he used it, didn't help him hit .328 to .370 at ages 36-39. You could juice me up to the moon and I wouldn't hit .050 because I can't hit.

In my mind the juice may not help him hit the ball on the barrel, but it would quicken his bat speed, which would increase the velocity of the ball off the bat, which makes the ball more difficult to field, which leads to a high batting average.

In essence, I disagree.

[Mr. Happy]

In my mind the juice may not help him hit the ball on the barrel, but it would quicken his bat speed, which would increase the velocity of the ball off the bat, which makes the ball more difficult to field, which leads to a high batting average.

In essence, I disagree.

I get that you disagree with me. Have you ever tried to actually hit a baseball? It is very hard if you have no hand-eye. How many hits could have been caused by being a little stronger and a little quicker? I submit that it wasn't enough to be able to hit .328-.370 in your late 30's.

[Limey]

No, I'm not past that point at all. We all just assume that. Bonds eclipsed 40 home runs eight times in his career, beginning in 1993 at 28. He declined precipitously at age 41, whcih you'd expect even if he was still juicing.

He also inflated shockingly in his late 30's, and I'm not just talking about his hat size.

[Limey]

I get that you disagree with me. Have you ever tried to actually hit a baseball? It is very hard if you have no hand-eye. How many hits could have been caused by being a little stronger and a little quicker? I submit that it wasn't enough to be able to hit .328-.370 in your late 30's.

I don't think anyone is denying that Bonds had incredible talent.  Conversely, only you appear to be claiming that his late-career explosion was achieved naturally.

[Mr. Happy]

He also inflated shockingly in his late 30's, and I'm not just talking about his hat size.

Again, where's your proof that Bonds juiced?

/crickets chirping/

[Mr. Happy]

I don't think anyone is denying that Bonds had incredible talent.  Conversely, only you appear to be denying that his late-career explosion was achieved naturally.

I'm not alone either.

[Limey]

Again, where's your proof that Bonds juiced?

/crickets chirping/

How about official court documents?

[Mr. Happy]

How about official court documents?

That still doesn't prove that the drugs being taken actually helped him.

[mrpink]

I get that you disagree with me. Have you ever tried to actually hit a baseball? It is very hard if you have no hand-eye. How many hits could have been caused by being a little stronger and a little quicker? I submit that it wasn't enough to be able to hit .328-.370 in your late 30's.

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like a dick.  I just realized I typed a severely run-on sentence and wanted to summarize.

Ted Williams hit .328 when he was 40 presumably without any juice.  If Bonds was Teddy's equal and just 10 extra hits are created because he juiced over 500 at bats, his average would jump 20 points.  That's significant.

[Mr. Happy]

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like a dick.  I just realized I typed a severely run-on sentence and wanted to summarize.

Ted Williams hit .328 when he was 40 presumably without any juice.  If Bonds was Teddy's equal and just 10 extra hits are created because he juiced over 500 at bats, his average would jump 20 points.  That's significant.

I can't say that I disagree with you. However, I don't think that it fully explains .370 or his .362 seasons. If the extra weight became a factor, wouldn't that actually hurt his performance too?

[Limey]

That still doesn't prove that the drugs being taken actually helped him.

He thought so.  Do I need to quote Crash?

Actually, you just need to look at his stats after hitting age 35 - i.e. the period during which there is much evidence and testimony that he was on an expansive juicing regimen.  Instead of continuing the gentle slide backwards that he was on and that age dictates, he exploded dramatically in all categories, most notably SLG and HR.

In his career, prior to the (alleged) juicing years, his SLG had never topped .700, despite his God-given hand-eye coordination.  In his 30s, it barely scraped above .600.  Then he went .863, .799, .749, .812 between age 36 and 39.  Ignoring those 4 seasons, he posted his second highest career SLG at age 40 (.667).

[subnuclear]

Here is a very good 2004 analysis of how Bonds' hitting changed in the early 2000s. 

[geezerdonk]

What evidence is there that Pope Francis I is a Roman Catholic? I want to see it and I want to see it now.

[Sleepy]

And of course, hitting a warning track fly vs. hitting it to the 10th row tends to help your batting average.

This is a really weird conversation to be having in 2014.

[Limey]

This is a really weird conversation to be having in 2014.

Very true.

Now, about this Pete Rose, Hall of Fame thing...

[Mr. Happy]

What evidence is there that Pope Francis I is a Roman Catholic? I want to see it and I want to see it now.

Fuck off.

[NeilT]

Fuck off.

Hah, he doesn't even live at the Vatican!

He's still my favorite Pope though.

[Mr. Happy]

Hah, he doesn't even live at the Vatican!

He's still my favorite Pope though.

He's definitely not mine. I loved Benedict XVI and Blessed John Paul II.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Which was the one that shat in the woods and where is your proof?

[NeilT]

Which was the one that shat in the woods and where is your proof?

That was Bear Bryant.