The Nolan Ryan thing

[Reuben]

I know this has been discussed elsewhere, but I can't remember where, and honestly, I think it's good to have a clearly labeled thread just in case the Astros are browsing fansites looking for fan opinions about this.

I found this quote pretty disturbing:

"He'd probably advise in all aspects of the business," Crane said. "He's been at it a long time and certainly has a lot of experience on the field. [Possibly] confirming some of Jeff's decisions and working with Jeff on the baseball side. He ran the business side of the Rangers.

(link)

It's one thing to have someone with a ton of baseball knowledge and experience offering an opinion - the Astros already have Roger Clemens, Craig Biggio, Jose Cruz, and others doing exactly that - but it's entirely another thing to bring in a guy like Nolan Ryan and give him potentially the power to override some of the decisions made by Luhnow.

Frankly, I don't want to see Ryan involved with the team in any capacity - I'm resentful because I think he had a lot to do with convincing Selig and the other owners to strong-arm the Astros into moving to the AL - but, in my opinion, the worst-case scenario would be a situation where he comes in and starts making baseball decisions according to his own beliefs. The Astros, with Luhnow as GM, are in the midst of executing what seems like a very good long-term plan. Mr. Crane, please stick to the plan.

Perhaps others disagree...?

[juliogotay]

Can't disagree. It wasn't working in Arlington apparantly.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

...I'm resentful because I think he had a lot to do with convincing Selig and the other owners to strong-arm the Astros into moving to the AL...

Of course the Rangers wanted the Astros to be division rivals. It has been advantageous for the Rangers. I resent it as well, but Nolan was doing his job. A job which I hated seeing him in. I'm not sure what he brings that can't be handled by DQ, Bagwell, Biggio, Cruz, and Reid Ryan. He doesn't need another job or more money. I think he made it clear he is a Ranger first when he wore their hat into the Hall of Fame. If he has renewed interest in the Astros, he should try being a fan--that's a job in itself.

[juliogotay]

Of course the Rangers wanted the Astros to be division rivals. It has been advantageous for the Rangers. I resent it as well, but Nolan was doing his job. A job which I hated seeing him in. I'm not sure what he brings that can't be handled by DQ, Bagwell, Biggio, Cruz, and Reid Ryan. He doesn't need another job or more money. I think he made it clear he is a Ranger first when he wore their hat into the Hall of Fame. If he has renewed interest in the Astros, he should try being a fan--that's a job in itself.

I think what he brings is credibility and P.R. value, something the Crane administration desperately needs. I'm not sure he wants to be too involved at least on a day-to-day basis. And he needs to keep out of Luhnow's way.

[Ron Brand]

I don't see anything in that quote at all that has any resemblance to 'overriding.' I'm sure that if they hired him for an advisory position, that they'd listen to what he has to say about whatever he says it about, but we're talking about a guy who trusts numbers and efficiency and how it relates to the bottom line. Adding Nolan Ryan to the team adds a guy who has been deeply involved in successful clubs in the AL and would have some insights. He'd also make a good inroad to bringing fans back and reconnecting his name with the Astros in a highly visible way, in probably his last stop in baseball. Plus, I think Jim Crane respects Ryan as a player. None of that equals anything more than a seat at the table, and certainly doesn't guarantee the power to overrride decisions.

Or, he might just relish the chance to hire him and fire his ass later on. I've got the popcorn ready.

[geezerdonk]

Maybe he can work on getting some games on television.

[Mr. Happy]

I don't see anything in that quote at all that has any resemblance to 'overriding.' I'm sure that if they hired him for an advisory position, that they'd listen to what he has to say about whatever he says it about, but we're talking about a guy who trusts numbers and efficiency and how it relates to the bottom line. Adding Nolan Ryan to the team adds a guy who has been deeply involved in successful clubs in the AL and would have some insights. He'd also make a good inroad to bringing fans back and reconnecting his name with the Astros in a highly visible way, in probably his last stop in baseball. Plus, I think Jim Crane respects Ryan as a player. None of that equals anything more than a seat at the table, and certainly doesn't guarantee the power to overrride decisions.

Or, he might just relish the chance to hire him and fire his ass later on. I've got the popcorn ready.

I personally favor the hire if made for the same reasons that RB eloquently articulated. I see little downside to bringing in a fan favorite as an advisor.

[Reuben]

"Possibly confirming some of Jeff's decisions" doesn't sound like overriding? Or at least potential owner-speak-code that indicates he might be given the power to override?

[Ron Brand]

No, that sounds to me more like this.

"I think we should spend money on X."

"Yeah, I do too."

"I think we should spend money on Y."

"I don't know about that, Jim."

"You raise some good points. Made me think. I'm gonna do it anyway."

Input, not override.

[HudsonHawk]

Fuck Nolan Ryan.  He had a choice to be an Astro or a Ranger.  He chose Ranger.  Emphatically.  The Astros are not his backup girlfriend, just in case the one he really wants to fuck tells him to get lost. 

[Reuben]

Fuck Nolan Ryan.  He had a choice to be an Astro or a Ranger.  He chose Ranger.  Emphatically.  The Astros are not his backup girlfriend, just in case the one he really wants to fuck tells him to get lost. 

SFN

[Jose Cruz III]

Fuck Nolan Ryan.  He had a choice to be an Astro or a Ranger.  He chose Ranger.  Emphatically.  The Astros are not his backup girlfriend, just in case the one he really wants to fuck tells him to get lost. 

Actually he has screwed the Astros plenty. He was making love to the Rangers. Until, of course, they kicked him out of bed.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I hope I never have to sit next to someone at an Astros game who bought their ticket based on Nolan Ryan being re-associated with the Astros.

[Ebby Calvin]

I like Reid Ryan. I'm not surprised he brought his dad aboard when the opportunity presented itself.
As others have said - as long as Nolan doesn't have substantial influence over Luhnow I'm fine with it.  Raises the national profile of the Astros and quite honestly I'm tired of being made fun of.  Could even help lure free agents when the time is right.

As a person/player, though, I agree with HH.

[OldBlevins]

I hope the all the Ryan influences bring the Astros AAA team back to Round Rock.  It's harder to enjoy a game when it's a Rangers farm team.

[Fredia]

so agree with you..

[HudsonHawk]

I hope the all the Ryan influences bring the Astros AAA team back to Round Rock.  It's harder to enjoy a game when it's a Rangers farm team.

While I understand the Austin folks' wish to have the local team be an Astros affiliate, this is exactly the kind of crap I'm talking about.  The Express were once an Astros affiliate, but Ryan wanted them to be associated with the Rangers.  So be it.  But don't jerk them, and the people of OKC, around just because Ryan needs to get his ego stroked.  He made his choice. 

[JimR]

While I understand the Austin folks' wish to have the local team be an Astros affiliate, this is exactly the kind of crap I'm talking about.  The Express were once an Astros affiliate, but Ryan wanted them to be associated with the Rangers.  So be it.  But don't jerk them, and the people of OKC, around just because Ryan needs to get his ego stroked.  He made his choice. 

actually, Reid was seriously pissed at the Astros two years before the switch.

[Duman]

RR wasn't the only one at odds with the old regime. Lexington was unhappy with the talent and dealing with the previous front office folks.   

[Kit]

If I remember correctly it was the Astros that quit on Nolan (to begin with) not the other way around...No way in the world he would have power over Lunhow's decisions...My guess is Crane's just exaggerating Ryan's job of an adviser ....I say bring him on he's a good guy, he'd be good for the franchise and doggon it (most) people like him.....

[Mr. Happy]

If I remember correctly it was the Astros that quit on Nolan (to begin with) not the other way around...No way in the world he would have power over Lunhow's decisions...My guess is Crane's just exaggerating Ryan's job of an adviser ....I say bring him on he's a good guy, he'd be good for the franchise and doggon it (most) people like him.....

You are absolutely correct. The Astros made little effort to re-sign Ryan. He went to the stRangers because he wanted to continue pitching.

[rpntex]

"Possibly confirming some of Jeff's decisions" doesn't sound like overriding? Or at least potential owner-speak-code that indicates he might be given the power to override?

I agree here.  Why should Luhnow needs his decisions "confirmed"? 

I'm okay with the hire, as long as it's strictly in an ADVISORY ROLE.  If he comes into Houston with any decision-making authority, I'd just as soon he keep on enjoying the retired life.  Luhnow has built the #1 farm system in baseball without Nolan Ryan's help.  If it ain't broke...

[JimR]

If I remember correctly it was the Astros that quit on Nolan (to begin with) not the other way around...No way in the world he would have power over Lunhow's decisions...My guess is Crane's just exaggerating Ryan's job of an adviser ....I say bring him on he's a good guy, he'd be good for the franchise and doggon it (most) people like him.....

I agree bring him on, but he is not a good guy.

[ValpoCory]

I hope the all the Ryan influences bring the Astros AAA team back to Round Rock.  It's harder to enjoy a game when it's a Rangers farm team.

Yep.  I hate going to the Dell Diamond now.  It's the Rangers, junior.  When the Express were the Astros affiliate, you never saw an Astros logo anywhere except on one "Road to the Show" t-shirt in the team store.  Now, it's Rangers logos everywhere.  It's like when a normal husband who becomes this super, PDA husband with his new wife.  Fuck them.

[BizidyDizidy]

I agree bring him on, but he is not a good guy.

They brought him on, Special Assistant to Jim Crane

http://blog.chron.com/ultimateastros/2014/02/11/nolan-ryan-to-return-to-astros-as-special-assistant-to-jim-crane/

[Fredia]

bring back the express to the astros please...lost in austin

[94CougarGrad]

Maybe he can work on getting some games on television.

This. I'd take this.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I can't stand Crane. But that's all I'm going to say, I'm going to try to not be so negative. Even though he is a pathetic dickless fuckwad who hired one of the dudes, who not too long ago left his gaping asshole winking like a cyclops in a rainstorm, I'm going to stay positive.

[Ebby Calvin]

I can't stand Crane. But that's all I'm going to say, I'm going to try to not be so negative. Even though he is a pathetic dickless fuckwad who hired one of the dudes, who not too long ago left his gaping asshole winking like a cyclops in a rainstorm, I'm going to stay positive.

True poetry, good sir.

[Craig]

I can't stand Crane. But that's all I'm going to say, I'm going to try to not be so negative. Even though he is a pathetic dickless fuckwad who hired one of the dudes, who not too long ago left his gaping asshole winking like a cyclops in a rainstorm, I'm going to stay positive.

That's just beautiful, right there. I'm going to have to nominate this.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Credit where credit is due. Sorry, but I appropriated the "winking like a cyclops in a rainstorm" from Doug Stanhope. Very funny man. One of the top three working today. Because of him, I can no longer think about any gaping asshole without also thinking about a cyclops.

[Mr. Happy]

I can't stand Crane. But that's all I'm going to say, I'm going to try to not be so negative. Even though he is a pathetic dickless fuckwad who hired one of the dudes, who not too long ago left his gaping asshole winking like a cyclops in a rainstorm, I'm going to stay positive.

If that is your positive, then I definitely do not want to see your negative self!

[Duke]

Because of him, I can no longer think about any gaping asshole without also thinking about a cyclops.

Nor will I.  That imagery is etched in my mind forever.

[Fredia]

good thing this site is not illustrated

[Nate Colbert]

I hope the all the Ryan influences bring the Astros AAA team back to Round Rock. 

If it happens, it won't be anytime soon:

...but the Rangers' contract with Round Rock was recently extended through the 2018 season.

So 2019 unless Crane in the meantime proceeds with his Woodlands/Conroe idea.

[BUWebguy]

Doesn't Reid Ryan's quote in that article suggest it may not be that cut and dry?

"There are rules in place, things in place, that enable an organization to switch during an active PDC, and so, are those things something we would look at? As the season nears an end, we probably would," Reid Ryan said. "That doesn't mean it's going to happen, and we always look to keep all our options open to find out the best for the Houston Astros."

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/hou/nolan-ryans-return-to-houston-astros-may-impact-triple-a-round-rock?ymd=20140213&content_id=67747586&vkey=news_hou

[Ron Brand]

I join my brethren in raising a hopeful middle finger and pointing it toward north central Texas.

[Nate Colbert]

Doesn't Reid Ryan's quote in that article suggest it may not be that cut and dry?

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/hou/nolan-ryans-return-to-houston-astros-may-impact-triple-a-round-rock?ymd=20140213&content_id=67747586&vkey=news_hou

Have to admit I overlooked that quote, but at the same time I"ve never heard of a minor league team switching affiliation prior to the expiration of a PDC. So I'm puzzled at this comment. At the very least, it would seem as if the Rangers would have to agree to the switch and what possible reason would they have to agree to that?

[Ron Brand]

Have to admit I overlooked that quote, but at the same time I"ve never heard of a minor league team switching affiliation prior to the expiration of a PDC. So I'm puzzled at this comment. At the very least, it would seem as if the Rangers would have to agree to the switch and what possible reason would they have to agree to that?

"Huh, look what fell out of Mr. Ryan's desk when we were moving it. Looks like some kind of contract, approving...what?"

[Nate Colbert]

ICYMI, Reid Ryan's comments yesterday about the expiration of the PDC with OKC at the end of the season:

"Obviously the Round Rock club was (with the) Astros for a long time,” Ryan said. “We switched it because of our family’s relationship with the Rangers at the time. That relationship’s now switched to the Astros. People can make the natural guess that, ‘Hey, wouldn’t those guys want to have their own club?’ But it’s not just my decision (alone).”

“We were in New Orleans at one time before Round Rock, we were in Tucson,” Ryan said. “Where is the right fit for the Houston Astros? The Tucson franchise has now moved to El Paso and they’ll be opening up this year. We feel like there’s options.”

The Zephyrs and Chihuahuas (that's El Paso) PDCs both expire at the end of 2014 as well, according to Evan Dreillich (again reiterating that the RR PDC with the Rangers doesn't expire until the end of 2018). He also notes that the Conroe area idea "doesn't seem to be gaining steam".

 

[Nate Colbert]

The Express returning to the Astros fold (and sooner rather than later) is sounding more plausible now according to the Austin American Statesman today (article is behind a paywall). Here are some excerpts:

Multiple sources within minor league or major league baseball have told the American-Statesman they expect Round Rock to change affiliations, perhaps in September...

The driving forces behind a switch, the sources said, are the Ryan family’s strong desire to tie its business interests to the same major league club and the Rangers’ interest in buying Oklahoma City, which is up for sale.

Mandalay Baseball Properties owns five minor league teams, including the RedHawks and the Rangers’ Double-A team in Frisco, but it has been trying to sell them as a package deal. If Mandalay were willing to parcel out Oklahoma City and Frisco, that could entice the Rangers to buy.

It’s a growing trend for major league teams to own their affiliates. St. Louis recently purchased Triple-A Memphis and also owns Double-A Springfield. The Astros own Double-A Corpus Christi and a rookie league club in Greeneville, Tenn.; the Braves own all but one of their affiliates; and the Yankees have a stake in four clubs. More than 20 affiliates have been purchased by MLB clubs.

Astros owner Jim Crane has made no secret of his desire to buy a Triple-A franchise and move it to The Woodlands, but big hurdles must be cleared to move a team, and Reid Ryan reportedly has convinced Crane that the better option involves trying to re-establish ties in Central Texas.

[Ron Brand]

Fuck The Woodlands.

[Mr. Happy]

The Express returning to the Astros fold (and sooner rather than later) is sounding more plausible now according to the Austin American Statesman today (article is behind a paywall). Here are some excerpts:
 

For our sake, I hope that RR returns to being Astros country.

[astrosfan76]

For our sake, I hope that RR returns to being Astros country.

Yeah, I don't get the preference for OKC over Austin.  It would seem that it would be a much more valuable market for them (and for us, as well).

[Fredia]

daughter went when rr played okc lots of houston  jerseys

[roadrunner]

Yeah, I don't get the preference for OKC over Austin.  It would seem that it would be a much more valuable market for them (and for us, as well).

I don't think anyone in the Astros org prefers OKC to Austin.

[Ron Brand]

daughter went when rr played okc lots of houston  jerseys

Good.

[Bench]

Yeah, I don't get the preference for OKC over Austin.  It would seem that it would be a much more valuable market for them (and for us, as well).

Once RR went to the Rangers, the Astros had to make do.  It's not like the Astros sought OKC was a better opportunity than RR.

[jbm]

I think he was referring to the Rangers supposed preference for OKC over Austin. 

Anyways, I don't think major league affiliation means much to most fans out at Dell Diamond.  I went to one of the OKC games and almost all were Rangers fans, not because the Express are affiliated with the Rangers, but because they have had recent success and the Astros have become a joke.  They, like many fans, are frontrunners and will swing with the fortunes of the teams. 

[Bench]

I think he was referring to the Rangers supposed preference for OKC over Austin. 

I realize that.... now.

[astrosfan76]

I think he was referring to the Rangers supposed preference for OKC over Austin. 

Anyways, I don't think major league affiliation means much to most fans out at Dell Diamond.  I went to one of the OKC games and almost all were Rangers fans, not because the Express are affiliated with the Rangers, but because they have had recent success and the Astros have become a joke.  They, like many fans, are frontrunners and will swing with the fortunes of the teams. 

Yes on the first part.  On the second, I will preface my response by saying that I have never been to Dell Diamond, so I don't know the environment.  But, I will say that there are advantages for us moving there.  A good product on the field will win support; we will have a good product at that level for the foreseeable future.  We won't match the Rangers major-league success this year and probably not next, but our AAA teams have the ability to be at least as good as what the Rangers could run out.  Second, we will eventually be able to match their MLB product. 

Now, if your point is that the Rangers will own the market as long as they have the better MLB club, and that the market would swing once we become the more dominant team, that's a different issue.  I would just say that it can't hurt if we are the team being broadcast there and having that continuity in market (Houston to Austin to CC) is more valuable than the big gap from Houston to OKC that we currently have.  For the Rangers part, I don't see why they would want to willingly swap the market for OKC, even if they think they can keep the fans' attention a little longer.  Once the teams start to even out, they lose the benefit of the fans having seen the players "grow up" with them.  Just my thoughts, though.

[VirtualBob]

The Express returning to the Astros fold (and sooner rather than later) is sounding more plausible now according to the Austin American Statesman today (article is behind a paywall).

From the Stateman:

It’s a growing trend for major league teams to own their affiliates. St. Louis recently purchased Triple-A Memphis and also owns Double-A Springfield. The Astros own Double-A Corpus Christi and a rookie league club in Greeneville, Tenn.; the Braves own all but one of their affiliates; and the Yankees have a stake in four clubs. More than 20 affiliates have been purchased by MLB clubs.

When did the Astros buy CC?  I thought it was part of the Ryan group that also owns RR?

[BUWebguy]

When did the Astros buy CC?  I thought it was part of the Ryan group that also owns RR?

Last fall:
http://www.keyetv.com/sports/features/sports/stories/astros-purchase-corpus-christi-hooks-ryansanders-baseball-758.shtml

[ValpoCory]

For our sake, I hope that RR returns to being Astros country.

Exactly.   The fallating over the Rangers has soured me from attending games.   When the Express was an Astros affiliate, they were very respectful of all MLB fans in central Texas.   You could hardly tell they were the Astros affiliate. Now, it's really hard as an Astros fan to support the Express.  Trying to be Rangers, Jr., right down to the font on the uniforms. 

[flysig]

I haven't been to an Express game at Dell since the Washington Senators who now play baseball in north texas took over the affiliation, nor have I wanted to. It disgusts me to see the proliferation in the number of stRangers fans the past several years here in Austin and Central Texas and obviously having their AAA franchise here north of Austin has helped (our beloved Astros not faring well has also helped, no doubt).
I would love to see the resurgence of the Astros being the state of Texas' rightful and preeminent baseball franchise as this is a big mess that needs to be fixed, so bringing back RR is something I'd love to see. A step in the right direction in winning hearts and minds? Hope so.

And yes, a better TV deal for fuck's sake.

[ValpoCory]

Oklahoma scene: Texas Rangers tried to buy RedHawks, according to report
Mandalay Baseball Properties, which owns the Oklahoma City franchise, wanted more than $20 million. The Rangers turned down the deal.



The Texas Rangers have had an interest in buying the Oklahoma City RedHawks, but the asking price was too high, according to a report by ballparkdigest.com.

The Rangers, who served as the parent team of the RedHawks over the 1983 through 2010 seasons, turned down a deal with Mandalay Baseball Properties because of a price tag exceeding $20 million for the Pacific Coast League franchise.

Reports have been circulating that the Rangers, who currently have their Triple-A prospects based in Round Rock, Texas, might be interested in returning to Oklahoma City. The RedHawks are currently in their fourth season as the Houston Astros affiliate.

The Astros and RedHawks’ affiliation agreement ends at the close of this season. The Rangers and Round Rock’s agreement expires in 2018. Ballparkdigest.com reported that affiliation deals can be broken if both sides agree.

Link