Which of these guys do you think will be inducted into the HOF?

[Houston]

http://baseballhall.org/news/press-releases/twelve-finalists-comprise-expansion-era-ballot-hall-fame-consideration-2014

[Bench]

I hate to say it, but La Russa.

[HudsonHawk]

Bobby Cox and Tony LaRussa should be automatic no-brainers. 

[NeilT]

Martin and Steinbrenner should go in together.

[MusicMan]

Tommy John's the only name where I immediately say "nope".
Quisenberry probably shouldn't make it, either.

Really, I think Marvin Miller should be the first name to go in from that list.

[OregonStrosFan]

Really, I think Marvin Miller should be the first name to go in from that list.

Should be, yes. Will be, not a chance...

[Mr. Happy]

Cox, Larussa, hopefully Tommy John and Torre.

[MusicMan]

Tommy John over Concepcion?  Seriously??

[HudsonHawk]

Cox, Larussa, hopefully Tommy John and Torre.

Torre will get in because he managed all those years in NY.  But when I look at him as a manager, he has no clothes on.  He was awful for the first half of his managerial career, and he was one of those "old white guy retreads" who people bemoaned until he got a shot at the HOF-caliber player laden Yankees.  When he had tremendous talent, he won.  When he had talent talent, he sucked. 

John...try as I might, I can't make a HOFer out of him.

[HudsonHawk]

Tommy John over Concepcion?  Seriously??

I can't get Concepcion anywhere *close* to being a HOFer.

[MusicMan]

I can't get Concepcion anywhere *close* to being a HOFer.

I can't get there with John.

[Bench]

Really, I think Marvin Miller should be the first name to go in from that list.

Absolutely.

[HudsonHawk]

I can't get there with John.

Me either.

[Mr. Happy]

I can't get there with John.

288 wins gets him past there for me. He was a medical miracle to boot.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

He was a medical miracle to boot.

So is Dolly Parton.

[Bench]

So is Dolly Parton.

She's in the HOF.

[Ty in Tampa]

John maybe as an artifact, like a historic home run ball or something.

[Ron Brand]

As long as Garvey doesn't get in, I don't care what they come up with.

[HudsonHawk]

As long as Garvey doesn't get in, I don't care what they come up with.

He didn't come close last time around, hopefully he won't this time either.

[MusicMan]

He didn't come close last time around, hopefully he won't this time either.

But once his kids are eligible to vote, we're in trouble.

[Texifornia]

Nobody else on that list (or almost any other list) comes close to Marvin Miller at overall historical effect on the game. He was possibly the most effective union head of any kind in U.S. history.

Love it or hate it, the man made a very big difference.

[JimR]

Nobody else on that list (or almost any other list) comes close to Marvin Miller at overall historical effect on the game. He was possibly the most effective union head of any kind in U.S. history.

Love it or hate it, the man made a very big difference.

agreed.

[Mr. Happy]

Nobody else on that list (or almost any other list) comes close to Marvin Miller at overall historical effect on the game. He was possibly the most effective union head of any kind in U.S. history.

Love it or hate it, the man made a very big difference.

+1 You speak the truth.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

He was possibly the most effective union head of any kind in U.S. history.

I respectfully disagree.  It's not even a real union. How many workers are in that association?

[morningwood75]

Torre will get in because he managed all those years in NY.  But when I look at him as a manager, he has no clothes on.  He was awful for the first half of his managerial career, and he was one of those "old white guy retreads" who people bemoaned until he got a shot at the HOF-caliber player laden Yankees.  When he had tremendous talent, he won.  When he had talent talent, he sucked. 

John...try as I might, I can't make a HOFer out of him.

I agree with you on Torre as a manager. I do think he gets underrated as a player, though. The guy had over 2,300 hits, an mvp, and an .817 career ops.

[Mr. Happy]

I agree with you on Torre as a manager. I do think he gets underrated as a player, though. The guy had over 2,300 hits, an mvp, and an .817 career ops.

I remember Torre as a player. The dude was a solid hitter for a high batting average with primarily gap power. Don't forget that he spent part of his career behind the dish, which is the most physically demanding position in my opinion. If it's up to me, he's a HOFer.

[Houston]

Ted Simmons deserves votes.

[MusicMan]

Ted Simmons deserves votes.

I remember him coming off the bench to hit a walk-off grand slam for the Braves back when I lived in ATL.

That said, the entry of either Torre or Simmons would please the BFIB, so I vote nay.

[HudsonHawk]

Ted Simmons deserves votes.

Not in my world.  He's simply not a HOFer.

[Houston]

Not in my world.  He's simply not a HOFer.

Compare his numbers to Carlton Fisk's.

[HudsonHawk]

Compare his numbers to Carlton Fisk's.

I have.  More importantly, I watched both of them play.  Fisk was head and shoulders a better catcher than Simmons was. 

[geezerdonk]

Who had better hair?

[Mr. Happy]

I have.  More importantly, I watched both of them play.  Fisk was head and shoulders a better catcher than Simmons was. 

This is correct. Simmons was stick first glove second. Fisk had both.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Who had better hair?

Wiley Wiggins' character in Dazed and Confused was going for the Simba Simmons look.

[Texifornia]

I respectfully disagree.  It's not even a real union. How many workers are in that association?

A Union is a Union irrespective of the number of it's members. The lot of the Major League player was exponentially improved over the course of Miller's MLBPA career. The course of the industry was irrevocably changed and rapidly so.

I did not say his efforts had the greatest effect on Americans as a whole. The lot of the average American worker has not paralleled the progress of Major League Players; however, I am at a loss to think of another labor leader that made as many gains for their Union that Miller did for the MLBPA.

[Bench]

I did not say his efforts had the greatest effect on Americans as a whole. The lot of the average American worker has not paralleled the progress of Major League Players; however, I am at a loss to think of another labor leader that made as many gains for their Union that Miller did for the MLBPA.

The players still have to work weekends. 

[Texifornia]

The players still have to work weekends. 

You're assuming that was a management demand, rumor has it that occasionally players don't mind being out of town on the weekends. Also, the vacation time is substantial.

Joking aside, guaranteed contracts are the biggest thing. Ask any professional football player that was cut for any reason.

[Bench]

Cox, LaRussa, and Torre.  All unanimously elected because none of their successes occurred while managing suspected steroid users that they didn't blow the whistle on.

[geezerdonk]

Mrs. Cox is grateful.

[Mr. Happy]

Mrs. Cox is grateful.

Are you saying that Bobby wouldn't have taken a snub very well?

[Reuben]

Cox, LaRussa, and Torre.  All unanimously elected because none of their successes occurred while managing suspected steroid users that they didn't blow the whistle on.

I am actually having a hard time thinking of significant players who were revealed to be juicers from Cox's teams. I'm probably forgetting someone, but the pitchers all had a squeaky-clean image, and guys like McGriff, Chipper, et al seem to as well. I can't even remember if there's been "whispers" about any of the other stars... guys like Javy Lopez, Klesko, Andruw, McCann, Furcal, and so on.

Of course, there was Otis Nixon and his coke habit, but who cares about that? All that matters is the drugs that could be harmful to people, like steroids, right?

[Ron Brand]

Of course, there was Otis Nixon and his coke habit, but who cares about that? All that matters is the drugs that could be harmful to people, like steroids, right?

Tell that to Dave Parker and Tim Raines.

[subnuclear]

I am actually having a hard time thinking of significant players who were revealed to be juicers from Cox's teams. I'm probably forgetting someone, but the pitchers all had a squeaky-clean image, and guys like McGriff, Chipper, et al seem to as well. I can't even remember if there's been "whispers" about any of the other stars... guys like Javy Lopez, Klesko, Andruw, McCann, Furcal, and so on.

Of course, there was Otis Nixon and his coke habit, but who cares about that? All that matters is the drugs that could be harmful to people, like steroids, right?

John Rocker?

[Reuben]

John Rocker?

I don't think Rocker was exactly instrumental in the Braves' success. Ditto Melky Cabrera for the year or two he played there.

[Bench]

I am actually having a hard time thinking of significant players who were revealed to be juicers from Cox's teams. I'm probably forgetting someone, but the pitchers all had a squeaky-clean image, and guys like McGriff, Chipper, et al seem to as well. I can't even remember if there's been "whispers" about any of the other stars... guys like Javy Lopez, Klesko, Andruw, McCann, Furcal, and so on.

Of course, there was Otis Nixon and his coke habit, but who cares about that? All that matters is the drugs that could be harmful to people, like steroids, right?

Well, Caminiti was on the Braves at some point which under prevailing "logic" means that no Brave is clean because if they weren't participating in the doping they should have turned him in because teammates know everything about each other. 

[Bench]

Also, if anyone should be a poster boy for receiving baseless accusations of steroid usage based only upon conjecture it would have to be Ryan Klesko.  

Meanwhile, former Braves players Gary Sheffield, David Justice, Denny Neagle, Todd Pratt, Kent Mercker, Mike Stanton, Paul Byrd, Matt Franco, and John Rocker were all identified in the Mitchell Report.  

[Reuben]

Also, if anyone should be a poster boy for receiving baseless accusations of steroid usage based only upon conjecture it would have to be Ryan Klesko.  

Meanwhile, former Braves players Gary Sheffield, David Justice, Denny Neagle, Todd Pratt, Kent Mercker, Mike Stanton, Paul Byrd, Matt Franco, and John Rocker were all identified in the Mitchell Report.  

Ah, I forgot about Justice, although that was probably years after his Braves period.

[Bench]

Ah, I forgot about Justice, although that was probably years after his Braves period.

The point is that when it comes to HOF selection they are painting with a very broad but inconsistent brush.     

[Reuben]

The point is that when it comes to HOF selection they are painting with a very broad but inconsistent brush.     

Oh, totally agreed. It's glaringly obvious with LaRussa, almost as much with Torre (ARod, Sheffield, Clemens, Pettitte...), but Cox actually has mostly avoided that perception, is all I'm saying.

[Bench]

Oh, totally agreed. It's glaringly obvious with LaRussa, almost as much with Torre (ARod, Sheffield, Clemens, Pettitte...), but Cox actually has mostly avoided that perception, is all I'm saying.

Sure, but if one were so inclined, regardless of perception, it's just as easy to drum up an argument indicting Cox as it is anyone else who was involved in Baseball from 1990 - 2010.  The picking and choosing based upon the subjective perception of the HOF decision makers is what I take issue with.  Frankly, the list of players who played for Cox in the Mitchell Report alone is a stronger case pointing toward's Cox's participation or at least complicity in doping than the one being advanced by the voters against Bagwell and Biggio.*  And that's ignoring the domestic abuse aspects of "character." 

*Yes, I'm aware that the groups of voters are different, but it's still the same destination.   

[SoonerJim]

Ah, I forgot about Justice, although that was probably years after his Braves period.

David Justice was married to Halle Berry, the stories of which indicate he should get a pass for any real or alleged behavior given her mental state as he reported it.

[jaklewein]

Julio Franco?  Guy played for the Braves in his mid 40s and was ripped.  I want to say he ended up playing till he was 50?

[Bench]

David Justice was married to Halle Berry, the stories of which indicate he should get a pass for any real or alleged behavior given her mental state as he reported it.

Sorry.  The pass for domestic abuse was already issued to Bobby Cox. 

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I'm glad Marvin Miller did not get in. Hate me, but I think players association heads have no more right to be included than player agents. Has Scott Boras not been great in raising salaries of ball players?

[HudsonHawk]

I'm glad Marvin Miller did not get in. Hate me, but I think players association heads have no more right to be included than player agents. Has Scott Boras not been great in raising salaries of ball players?

Why would they not have the right, both Miller and potentially Boras?  The HOF is a museum to document the history of professional baseball.  I'm not sure why you would leave out such a significant contribution to the development of the game, for better or for worse. 

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Why would they not have the right, both Miller and potentially Boras?  The HOF is a museum to document the history of professional baseball.  I'm not sure why you would leave out such a significant contribution to the development of the game, for better or for worse. 

Other than player mobility and salaries, what contribution of significance did they add to the development of the game?

I'm just of the opinion that the HoF should be limited to players, managers/coaches, and player personnel executives. I think there are quite a number of people who helped the business side of baseball, the money making side, but did nothing to make the game on the field better. However, if enough voters someday feel differently, then so be it. Where would you stop? HOK built a lot of MLB facilities, should they be considered for their significant contribution?

[HudsonHawk]

Other than player mobility and salaries, what contribution of significance did they add to the development of the game?

Isn't that enough?  Do you not think that free agency and the huge gap in player salary/team payrolls has had an effect on the game?  Are you suggesting that Roy Halladay made significant contributions to the development of the game?  That the game would not be the same without him?

I'm just of the opinion that the HoF should be limited to players, managers/coaches, and player personnel executives. I think there are quite a number of people who helped the business side of baseball, the money making side, but did nothing to make the game on the field better. However, if enough voters someday feel differently, then so be it. Where would you stop? HOK built a lot of MLB facilities, should they be considered for their significant contribution?

If HOK materially changed the game on the field, then yes, they should be considered.  And it's not about making it "better". 

[Mr. Happy]

I'm glad Marvin Miller did not get in. Hate me, but I think players association heads have no more right to be included than player agents. Has Scott Boras not been great in raising salaries of ball players?

This is wrong-headed. Marvin Miller was the driving force behind obliteration of the reserve clause and the implementation of the minimum salary, both of which fundamentally changed baseball forever. You can't write a history of MLB without including a chapter on Marvin Miller. He belongs in the HOF in my opinion. Shame on the former players on that selection committee who didn't vote for him.

[Jose Cruz III]

Why would they not have the right, both Miller and potentially Boras?  The HOF is a museum to document the history of professional baseball.  I'm not sure why you would leave out such a significant contribution to the development of the game, for better or for worse. 

Pete Rose?

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

This is wrong-headed. Marvin Miller was the driving force behind obliteration of the reserve clause and the implementation of the minimum salary, both of which fundamentally changed baseball forever. You can't write a history of MLB without including a chapter on Marvin Miller. He belongs in the HOF in my opinion. Shame on the former players on that selection committee who didn't vote for him.

Of course Marvin Miller did all those thing. He was a very great man. No one else could have done what he did. No one. Timing and proximity had nothing to do with his greatness. No one helped him and none of his ideas were ever thought of before he thought them. I'm surprised he is not already in the Basketball HoF, they let people in for lesser reasons.

[HudsonHawk]

Pete Rose?

1.  Rose is not eligible.
2.  I don't view Rose as having any major impact on how the game.  He was a nice player, likely a HOF career.  But the game does not look significantly different without his contributions.

[HudsonHawk]

Of course Marvin Miller did all those thing. He was a very great man. No one else could have done what he did. No one. Timing and proximity had nothing to do with his greatness. No one helped him and none of his ideas were ever thought of before he thought them. I'm surprised he is not already in the Basketball HoF, they let people in for lesser reasons.

By that logic, has anyone ever influenced the game in your opinion? 

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

By that logic, has anyone ever influenced the game in your opinion? 

By any logic, sarcastic or not, I believe that players, managers/coaches, and contributors are considered by different measures. I really don't like umpires being in there either.

[Randy Watson]

I know three I would vote for off the top of my head, Raines, Biggio, and Bagwell.  All should be no brainers.

[Bench]

By any logic, sarcastic or not, I believe that players, managers/coaches, and contributors are considered by different measures. I really don't like umpires being in there either.

Just as long as Milo's Hall of Fame spot remains secure...

[HudsonHawk]

By any logic, sarcastic or not, I believe that players, managers/coaches, and contributors are considered by different measures. I really don't like umpires being in there either.

So what would be the consideration, in your mind, for an executive/contributor? 

[Reuben]

Just as long as Milo's Hall of Fame spot remains secure...

Broadcasters at least are a different wing, and not even technically "Hall of Famers" IIRC. Whereas umps, managers, and executives have plaques side by side with the players, again IIRC.

To me, it gets tricky when you talk about "significant historical impact." Well, they have the HOF Museum to highlight the history. The Hall itself, in my mind, should be for honoring the players who really excelled at playing the game.

[HudsonHawk]

Broadcasters at least are a different wing, and not even technically "Hall of Famers" IIRC. Whereas umps, managers, and executives have plaques side by side with the players, again IIRC.

To me, it gets tricky when you talk about "significant historical impact." Well, they have the HOF Museum to highlight the history. The Hall itself, in my mind, should be for honoring the players who really excelled at playing the game.

So you think they should just not induct managers, umpires or executives, at all?

[Jose Cruz III]

1.  Rose is not eligible.
2.  I don't view Rose as having any major impact on how the game.  He was a nice player, likely a HOF career.  But the game does not look significantly different without his contributions.

Even though I think that he should be eligible because I think you're dead on with the post I replied to originally, we do agree that he is in fact ineligible. But, are you serious with 2.

[HudsonHawk]

Even though I think that he should be eligible because I think you're dead on with the post I replied to originally, we do agree that he is in fact ineligible. But, are you serious with 2.

Absolutely serious.  There are a handful of players in history who changed the game...that without them (or someone in their place), the game would look significantly different than it does today.  Babe Ruth is one.  Jackie Robinson is one.  Pete Rose is not one of them.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

So what would be the consideration, in your mind, for an executive/contributor? 

Branch Rickey.

[Mr. Happy]

Branch Rickey.

What's your rationale? Because he signed Jackie Robinson? Marvin Miller did two things that were at least as important to the history of baseball.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

What's your rationale? Because he signed Jackie Robinson? Marvin Miller did two things that were at least as important to the history of baseball.

I don't think anything Miller did compares with ending the exclusion of black players. Rickey also started the first farm system and also drafted Roberto Clemente, he introduced the batting helmet. I don't think anyone ever bought a a ticket to see Miller or Rickey do their things and I think it should be a players and managers hall mostly anyway, Hudson asked for an example and I gave one.

[Jose Cruz III]

Absolutely serious.  There are a handful of players in history who changed the game...that without them (or someone in their place), the game would look significantly different than it does today.  Babe Ruth is one.  Jackie Robinson is one.  Pete Rose is not one of them.

He will never get in, but he had a huge impact on the game of baseball. Certainly not of the magnitude that Jackie Robinson did, but a huge impact nonetheless.

[Mr. Happy]

I don't think anything Miller did compares with ending the exclusion of black players. Rickey also started the first farm system and also drafted Roberto Clemente, he introduced the batting helmet. I don't think anyone ever bought a a ticket to see Miller or Rickey do their things and I think it should be a players and managers hall mostly anyway, Hudson asked for an example and I gave one.

Of course it is. Don't you remember baseball under the reserve clause and minimum salaries? Marvin Miller was a gutsy visionary who changed the game forever. Every player since Andy Messersmith and Dave McNally owes a significant debt to Marvin Miller.

[HudsonHawk]

He will never get in, but he had a huge impact on the game of baseball. Certainly not of the magnitude that Jackie Robinson did, but a huge impact nonetheless.

Like what?

[HudsonHawk]

I don't think anyone ever bought a a ticket to see Miller or Rickey do their things

And no one would have ever bought a ticket without guys like Miller and Rickey.  The HOF is a historical museum dedicated to documenting professional baseball.  I just don't see why one should limit that to players only.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

...Don't you remember baseball under the reserve clause and minimum salaries? Marvin Miller was a gutsy visionary who changed the game forever. Every player since Andy Messersmith and Dave McNally owes a significant debt to Marvin Miller.

I remember well. Before Messersmith and McNally, there was Miller's sacrificial lamb, Curt Flood. Curt Flood had the vision and took the risk. Curt Flood got Miller behind him and got the ball rolling. As head of the association, Miller was paid to do what needed to be done. That didn't take guts, it took conviction to do a job one is hired to do. He was a hired gun. A mercenary. And a damn good one but he had nothing to lose.

If that's your argument, put Curt Flood in, leave Miller out.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Like what?

Hustle!

[Jose Cruz III]

Like what?

The all time hits leader for one.

[Ron Brand]

The all time hits leader for one.

Leading in a category is not changing the game. If everyone started running to first on a walk, that would be changing the game.

[HudsonHawk]

The all time hits leader for one.

There would still be an all-time hits leader without Rose. 

[Reuben]

There would still be an all-time hits leader without Rose. 

And there would still be a hitting streak record without DiMaggio. I forget what the point of this discussion was?

[Lefty]

I forget what the point of this discussion was?

You being wrong. /HH

[HudsonHawk]

And there would still be a hitting streak record without DiMaggio. I forget what the point of this discussion was?

The discussion was whether or not Pete Rose significantly changed the game of baseball.  Some think baseball would look a whole lot different had he not played.  I don't.

[JimR]

The discussion was whether or not Pete Rose significantly changed the game of baseball.  Some think baseball would look a whole lot different had he not played.  I don't.

nor do I.

[Reuben]

The discussion was whether or not Pete Rose significantly changed the game of baseball.  Some think baseball would look a whole lot different had he not played.  I don't.

Ok, sure. But there's a lot of great players you can say that about. Would the game look a whole lot different without Lou Gehrig? Probably not, but that doesn't mean he wasn't extremely important and historically significant.

[Jose Cruz III]

Ok, sure. But there's a lot of great players you can say that about. Would the game look a whole lot different without Lou Gehrig? Probably not, but that doesn't mean he wasn't extremely important and historically significant.

I guess that's what I am trying to say, Reuben. He is very important in a historical sense to the game of baseball. But without a doubt, he screwed it all up. But I do think some folks disregard him because they just didn't like him. But if you were to ask the heirs of Ty Cobb I think they would say he is historically significant to the game.

On another note, even though Rick Reilly needs to proof read, he writes an interesting piece on the 3 managers inducted to the HOF recently and  he throws a little love toward Biggio at the end of the article.

[HudsonHawk]

Ok, sure. But there's a lot of great players you can say that about. Would the game look a whole lot different without Lou Gehrig? Probably not, but that doesn't mean he wasn't extremely important and historically significant.

Exactly.

[HudsonHawk]

I guess that's what I am trying to say, Reuben. He is very important in a historical sense to the game of baseball. But without a doubt, he screwed it all up. But I do think some folks disregard him because they just didn't like him. But if you were to ask the heirs of Ty Cobb I think they would say he is historically significant to the game.

I know of no one who disregards Rose because they don't like him.  I've never even *heard* of anyone disregarding him because they don't like him.    Steve Carlton is the ace of the All-Time Dickhead All-Star Team, yet he was a near unanimous first-ballot HOFer.  Rose is not eligible for the HOF because he got caught gambling on games in which he had a duty to perform.  Period.  It's not a personal grudge against him, and any attempt to make it sound that way just undermines any credibility of the argument that his gambling ban should be lifted.

[BizidyDizidy]

I know of no one who disregards Rose because they don't like him.  I've never even *heard* of anyone disregarding him because they don't like him.    Steve Carlton is the ace of the All-Time Dickhead All-Star Team, yet he was a near unanimous first-ballot HOFer.  Rose is not eligible for the HOF because he got caught gambling on games in which he had a duty to perform.  Period.  It's not a personal grudge against him, and any attempt to make it sound that way just undermines any credibility of the argument that his gambling ban should be lifted.

Isn't that just a dumb rule that the HoF has though?

[HudsonHawk]

Isn't that just a dumb rule that the HoF has though?

No, Rule 21 is a Major League Rule.  And many don't think not betting on your own team is a dumb rule.

[BizidyDizidy]

No, Rule 21 is a Major League Rule.  And many don't think not betting on your own team is a dumb rule.

Why can't an ineligible person be in the hall of fame?

[geezerdonk]

Why can't an ineligible person be in the hall of fame?

If you can't read the name, how do you know who you are voting for?

[HudsonHawk]

Why can't an ineligible person be in the hall of fame?

Because the HOF says so.

[BizidyDizidy]

Because the HOF says so.

Isn't that just a dumb rule that the HoF has though?

[HudsonHawk]

So because the HOF has a rule, it's by definition "dumb"?

[Bench]

Dick Justice published his votes:Here's my Hall of Fame ballot: Bagwell, Biggio, Glavine, Maddux, Morris, Mussina, Raines, Schilling, Thomas, Trammell.

He explained later that he identified "16+ players in the conversation" for his vote.

[Duke]

Dick Justice published his votes:Here's my Hall of Fame ballot: Bagwell, Biggio, Glavine, Maddux, Morris, Mussina, Raines, Schilling, Thomas, Trammell.

He explained later that he identified "16+ players in the conversation" for his vote.

Come on Beeg and Baggs!!!

[HudsonHawk]

Dick Justice published his votes:Here's my Hall of Fame ballot: Bagwell, Biggio, Glavine, Maddux, Morris, Mussina, Raines, Schilling, Thomas, Trammell.

He explained later that he identified "16+ players in the conversation" for his vote.

I would not have voted for Morris, Schilling or Mussina.  But if you vote for Schilling, a popular choice, how can you justify not voting for the other two?

Glad to see Trammell get some love.  He needs more.

[Reuben]

I would not have voted for Morris, Schilling or Mussina.  But if you vote for Schilling, a popular choice, how can you justify not voting for the other two?

Glad to see Trammell get some love.  He needs more.

Agreed about Trammell. He's very similar to Barry Larkin, really - Larkin stole more bases, but otherwise, very similar career totals, they both played great defense at SS, both led their teams to World Series titles, both one of the top 2 or 3 SS of their time.

[Jose Cruz III]

I know of no one who disregards Rose because they don't like him.  I've never even *heard* of anyone disregarding him because they don't like him.    Steve Carlton is the ace of the All-Time Dickhead All-Star Team, yet he was a near unanimous first-ballot HOFer.  Rose is not eligible for the HOF because he got caught gambling on games in which he had a duty to perform.  Period.  It's not a personal grudge against him, and any attempt to make it sound that way just undermines any credibility of the argument that his gambling ban should be lifted.

Not what I am saying at all. He is not in the HOF because he royally screwed up. His fault and only his. I just don't ever see the love coming for him like there is on occasion for Shoeless Joe. Not till this generation passes at least. And most of that, IMO, is because he is a butthead. Butthead or not, though, he is the all time hits leader.

[Ron Brand]

Bill Deane says only Maddux gets in this year.

[subnuclear]

Bill Deane says only Maddux gets in this year.

If there aren't at least 5 players this year there should be riots.

[NeilT]

If there aren't at least 5 players this year there should be riots.

The Hall controls the procedures for voting as I recall.  I can't imagine changes in the procedures if things turn out the way they did last year.

[MusicMan]

Bill Deane says only Maddux gets in this year.

That would be the last straw in my tenuous caring about the HOF voting.

[Jose Cruz III]

Bill Deane says only Maddux gets in this year.

If he is right, then it will only prove that the voters have their own agenda and their voting privileges should be taken away. But I think he is wrong.

[Limey]

Leading in a category is not changing the game. If everyone started running to first on a walk home run, that would be changing the game.

FIFY

[HudsonHawk]

The Hall controls the procedures for voting as I recall.  I can't imagine changes in the procedures if things turn out the way they did last year.

They did this with the Veteran's Committee, after they consistently voted in guys like Phil Rizzuto.  I would hope they'd do the same with the writers if they continue their witch hunt.