Norris to be in high demand?

[Jose Cruz III]

One NL GM seems to think so.

The Orioles, Giants, and Pirates have kicked around the idea of acquiring Norris, but one National League exec says there will be about a dozen teams interested before all is said and done.

[Mr. Happy]

Why not? The guy has two plus pitches, is beginning to use his change up more and appears to have turned the corner. If Luhnow decides to move him, he better get a king's ransom for him.

[Texifornia]

The Astros' farm system has come a long way, but still has a long way to go. If the player personnel of a winning MLB club is to be supplied almost entirely from its farm system, then that farm system must be among the top five or so. The Astros' farm is not yet at that level.

I could easily see Norris being dealt for a cadre of top prospects from a team that needs an arm now.

[Jose Cruz III]

The Astros' farm system has come a long way, but still has a long way to go. If the player personnel of a winning MLB club is to be supplied almost entirely from its farm system, then that farm system must be among the top five or so. The Astros' farm is not yet at that level.

I could easily see Norris being dealt for a cadre of top prospects from a team that needs an arm now.

Veras is another one I could see being dealt for a prospect(s).

[Mr. Happy]

Veras is another one I could see being dealt for a prospect(s).

I agree, especially if he keeps pitching well.

[astrosfan76]

The Astros' farm system has come a long way, but still has a long way to go. If the player personnel of a winning MLB club is to be supplied almost entirely from its farm system, then that farm system must be among the top five or so. The Astros' farm is not yet at that level.

I could easily see Norris being dealt for a cadre of top prospects from a team that needs an arm now.

I don't know that it isn't. While we haven't promoted any of our top prospects (yet), several of the teams ahead of us (at least, according to BA) have graduated their top guys. Off the top of my head, St. Louis has graduated Miller; Texas, Profar; Miami, Fernandez; and Pittsburgh, Cole. The addition of Appel and rise of Folty is also big for the organization. So, we could be in that stratosphere once the newest rankings come out.

[OregonStrosFan]

I don't know that it isn't. While we haven't promoted any of our top prospects (yet), several of the teams ahead of us (at least, according to BA) have graduated their top guys. Off the top of my head, St. Louis has graduated Miller; Texas, Profar; Miami, Fernandez; and Pittsburgh, Cole. The addition of Appel and rise of Folty is also big for the organization. So, we could be in that stratosphere once the newest rankings come out.

I agree, and think HOU may pop up as a top-5 in a couple of the mid-season rankings.

[Jose Cruz III]

I agree, and think HOU may pop up as a top-5 in a couple of the mid-season rankings.

Especially if they can get a dozen teams vying for Norris and/or Veras. The more teams involved, the more astronomical (pun intended) the price.

[Fredia]

i understand business, professional players etc. but i hate to see him go.

[Reuben]

I like Bud, and it's been nice to see him make some real strides this year. If you throw out his one start where he didn't make it out of the first, his ERA drops to 2.84.

Like I've said before, I just hope if they do move him, it's for top quality, not quantity ala the Wandy trade.

[jbm]

I like Bud, and it's been nice to see him make some real strides this year. If you throw out his one start where he didn't make it out of the first, his ERA drops to 2.84.

Like I've said before, I just hope if they do move him, it's for top quality, not quantity ala the Wandy trade.

Agreed. I was wondering if they were still in this mode.  I heard Goldstein on a podcast and he certainly implied that they were.  Didn't mention anyone specifically of course, but said dont be surprised if there is more movement at the deadline.  However, I don't really understand the strategy: Is everyone approaching money-making time going to be dealt, or are there some they intend to keep?

[astrosfan76]

Agreed. I was wondering if they were still in this mode.  I heard Goldstein on a podcast and he certainly implied that they were.  Didn't mention anyone specifically of course, but said dont be surprised if there is more movement at the deadline.  However, I don't really understand the strategy: Is everyone approaching money-making time going to be dealt, or are there some they intend to keep?

I get the feeling that there are players in Houston now who they truly intend to build around. Altuve is one of those guys, Castro has moved into that category, along with Lyles. On the pre-game, Luhnow mentioned those guys as potential cornerstones. He also mentioned Barnes and Carter as players making the case to be around on the team while they are competing, though I don't see either starting as a position player on those teams.

As for Norris, I can see the logic if they do move him. If they hold on to him, they could be competing before he is eligible for free agency, but, it would be a small window. It just depends on what they can get in return, though.

[geezerdonk]

I would prefer to have him numbered among those that the Astros intend to build around. They have enough prospects; they don't need to trade him for more. If they must trade him, Texas might be a good partner. The Rangers are in a headlong panic and might make an advantageous trade partner. Profar is said to be available. Norris and Martinez might do the trick.

[pots]

I would prefer to have him numbered among those that the Astros intend to build around. They have enough prospects; they don't need to trade him for more. If they must trade him, Texas might be a good partner. The Rangers are in a headlong panic and might make an advantageous trade partner. Profar is said to be available. Norris and Martinez might do the trick.

The #1 prospect in all the minors (to start the season) for Norris and Martinez.  Done.  Quickly before Daniels wakes up.

[roadrunner]

Nah, forget Profar.  I'd rather have Puig.  Or maybe Trout.  Let's just send out offers for Puig, Trout and Harper and whoever says yes first gets Norris. 

That should do it.

[Navin R Johnson]

If they are getting a Hunter Pence type return, with at least 1 player that is on track to be MLB ready for the start of 2014, I am all for moving Bud.  But Bud is still under club control for 2 more seasons I wouldn't move him unless the deal is just way to good to pass up. 

[MusicMan]

If they are getting a Hunter Pence type return, with at least 1 player that is on track to be MLB ready for the start of 2014, I am all for moving Bud.  But Bud is still under club control for 2 more seasons I wouldn't move him unless the deal is just way to good to pass up. 

I'm with you, except there better be at least one arm with front-of-the-rotation potential.

[pots]

I'm with you, except there better be at least one arm with front-of-the-rotation potential.

Well unless you get yourself a Profar type guy.  Too bad that Carter's numbers weren't closer to last years.  Another 100 OPS and Norris & Carter might be intriguing enough to get some talks going.

ETA:
Carter's road numbers are oddly really good.  270/361/539 on the road versus 162/240/333 at home.  Perhaps that could be played up.  

[roadrunner]

I'm pretty sure Profar is untouchable.  A more realistic yet still highly unprobable deal would be Norris for Jackie Bradley Jr.

[juliogotay]

I'd be happy with a corner outfield with some punch. Seems to be a lacking area in the system.

[MusicMan]

I'd be happy with a corner outfield with some punch. Seems to be a lacking area in the system.

Santana, maybe Springer.

[jaklewein]

I'm pretty sure Profar is untouchable.  A more realistic yet still highly unprobable deal would be Norris for Jackie Bradley Jr.

All this trade talk...Where's Toddthebod when you need him?  Oh wait, rumor has it he showed up for a cup of coffee at the Bus Ride the other day.

[astrosfan76]

Some tweets from Brian Smith:

#Astros will be "open for business" as trade deadline approaches, Luhnow said. But club has a much different mindset than it did during 2012

Depth in #Astros' farm system is beginning to build up and club wants to give a fair chance to prospects at Class AAA to prove themselves.

In 2012, #Astros traded "100 for 50," in terms of #MLB value. This year, it could be 100 for 80. Club doesn't plan to take another step back

To bridge 2013 with 2014 and move rebuild forward, #Astros are already considering signing two- to three-year free agents during offseason.

Looks like quality over quantity will be the mindset this season.  I'm glad to see the last comment, as well.  They're not going to get a top-tier player at 2-3 years, but they could get target a decent reliever, or two, in that range.  If nothing else, it shows that the club sees themselves as progressing toward contention (or at least relevancy outside the draft).

[geezerdonk]

I wouldn't move him unless the deal is just way to good to pass up. 

I am hoping that this is their plan.

[Fredia]

correct me if i am wrong has there ever been a plan

[astrosfan76]

correct me if i am wrong has there ever been a plan

You're wrong.  They're executing the plan that they've been selling since the onset, even before Luhnow was hired.

[roadrunner]

correct me if i am wrong has there ever been a plan

sigh

[NeilT]

2-3 free agents to be signed this winter? Reuben, this looks like an excellent opportunity to dis Pena before tonight's game.

[toddthebod]

All this trade talk...Where's Toddthebod when you need him?  Oh wait, rumor has it he showed up for a cup of coffee at the Bus Ride the other day.

I'm here every day.  Every single mother-lovin day.  Just lurking. 


Trade Norris.  Trade him to the Yankees for Fernando Martinez.  Happy?


I actually love what the Astros are doing right now -- except for the fact that they are winning so much, they are hurting their chances of another #1 pick.  On a serious note, I really like the nucleus of young players and think that if the Astros had a better bullpen, the team's record would actually be quite respectable.  And I wouldn't trade Norris except for an amazing package of players because I think Norris is pretty talented. 

[Reuben]

2-3 free agents to be signed this winter? Reuben, this looks like an excellent opportunity to dis Pena before tonight's game.

In other words you want him to go on a torrid hot streak so the Astros sign him to a 3-year extension, giving Singleton some extended AAA seasoning?

[Limey]

And I wouldn't trade Norris except for an amazing package of players because I think Norris is pretty talented. 

Ahhh fuck it!  Time to cash in the retirement savings and head to Vegas to see out the apocalypse.

[pots]

The problem with Norris is the plan.  The plan is to start being competitve in 2015.  And Bud is 28 and will be 30 for the start of the 2015 season.  If you believe Norris is peaking and will be in decline in 2015 then trading him now (for the right offer) makes sense.  If you believe Bud is still improving and will be peaking in 2015 then trading him is a bad move.  

And by right offer I mean getting some can't miss prospect or 2 that should provide greater value in 2015 and beyond then Bud will be in 2015 and beyond.  

[jbm]

Some tweets from Brian Smith:

Regarding Smith.  Just wanted to give a shout-out to the guy.  He has provided quite a lot of informative articles lately.  Pretty impressive, IMO.

[jaklewein]

The problem with Norris is the plan.  The plan is to start being competitve in 2015.  And Bud is 28 and will be 30 for the start of the 2015 season.  If you believe Norris is peaking and will be in decline in 2015 then trading him now (for the right offer) makes sense.  If you believe Bud is still improving and will be peaking in 2015 then trading him is a bad move.  

And by right offer I mean getting some can't miss prospect or 2 that should provide greater value in 2015 and beyond then Bud will be in 2015 and beyond.  

I agree, plus I think a big reason he's rumored to be valued so highly is the low price tag and extended years of club control.  Year by year that becomes less of a factor.  He will have to continue to get better to hold his current value in the future.

[NeilT]

In other words you want him to go on a torrid hot streak so the Astros sign him to a 3-year extension, giving Singleton some extended AAA seasoning?

Well then he'd be worth something in a trade, right?

[toddthebod]

The problem with Norris is the plan.  The plan is to start being competitve in 2015.  

I think that they can be competitive next season.  Lyles, Norris, Harrell might be a pretty solid base for a rotation.

Bedard has had 3 really good starts in June (with a stinker against KC).  If he keeps pitching like that, he might have some real value.

[Ron Brand]

The starting pitching has been unsustainably lights-out for five weeks or more. If they're able to keep up even some of that success it's going to be very, very interesting next month.

[pots]

I think that they can be competitive next season. 

You and I may have different meanings of competitive.  When I say competitive I expect them to be in a playoff hunt.  I think they could be around 500 next year. 

[Bench]

You and I may have different meanings of competitive.  When I say competitive I expect them to be in a playoff hunt.  I think they could be around 500 next year. 

I'd say .500 is competitive.  If you're beating more teams than you're losing to, that some pretty good competing. 

[JimR]

I'd say .500 is competitive.  If you're beating more teams than you're losing to, that some pretty good competing. 

a team can even be competitive without winning.

[Arky Vaughan]

The problem with Norris is the plan.  The plan is to start being competitve in 2015.  And Bud is 28 and will be 30 for the start of the 2015 season.  If you believe Norris is peaking and will be in decline in 2015 then trading him now (for the right offer) makes sense.  If you believe Bud is still improving and will be peaking in 2015 then trading him is a bad move.  

And by right offer I mean getting some can't miss prospect or 2 that should provide greater value in 2015 and beyond then Bud will be in 2015 and beyond.  

This. It would be a waste for them to divert their attention from contending in 2015 and beyond.

[pots]

This. It would be a waste for them to divert their attention from contending in 2015 and beyond.

Ah, thanks.  Contending.  Contending (for the playoffs) in 2015 and beyond. 

[juliogotay]

Just 5.5 games out of 3rd place in the division.

[pots]

Ugh, I hope "volume" doesn't mean quantity over quality.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9412832/mlb-trade-deadline-preview

Bud Norris: Astros GM Jeff Luhnow has the go-ahead from ownership to deal just about anyone, although local cult hero fave Jose Altuve and catcher Jason Castro will probably be priced too high to move. But of all the items in the Astros' showroom, no one is a better bet to get traded than Norris. He's 28. He's under control for 2½ more seasons. He's making $3 million a year. And while teams have noticed his strikeout rate is down and his WHIP is up, he remains an attractive commodity for clubs willing to give up multiple prospects. The Astros, said one NL exec, are looking for "volume" in any deal they make.

[astrosfan76]

Ugh, I hope "volume" doesn't mean qunatity over quality.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9412832/mlb-trade-deadline-preview

Based on Luhnow's comments, I'm going to guess that Stark is wrong, or at least not completely right. Luhnow doesn't give away his plans, but he's been pretty honest when he has revealed parts of it. I don't know what he can receive in a trade for Norris, but I would expect the emphasis to be quality.

[BUWebguy]

Perhaps the point was that he's looking not just for one quality player, but for multiple quality players?

[pots]

Perhaps the point was that he's looking not just for one quality player, but for multiple quality players?

Don't see how that is possible.  Norris's number are down slightly.  He's not giving up as many HRs and his walks are down some but he is getting hit a lot more and striking out a lot less.  Might look like he is pitching to contact more as he gets older and wiser but it has not led to him pitching any deeper into games.  The best thing he has going for him is he's not a rental and not too expensive.

[jaklewein]

The best thing he has going for him is he's not a rental and not too expensive.

Which is why I'm fine with him getting dealt.

[austro]

Don't see how that is possible.  Norris's number are down slightly.  He's not giving up as many HRs and his walks are down some but he is getting hit a lot more and striking out a lot less.  Might look like he is pitching to contact more as he gets older and wiser but it has not led to him pitching any deeper into games.  The best thing he has going for him is he's not a rental and not too expensive.

A good negotiator should be able to paint a convincing picture of an inept defense behind him. All you have to do is show 30 seconds of Carter and Cedeno clips and you should be golden.

[Reuben]

A good negotiator should be able to paint a convincing picture of an inept defense behind him. All you have to do is show 30 seconds of Carter and Cedeno clips and you should be golden.

Or 2 still photos of Paredes.

[jaklewein]

I'm starting to think Bedard's going to start garnering some interest as well if he continues to pitch well and stay off the DL.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I'm starting to think Bedard's going to start garnering some interest as well if he continues to pitch well and stay off the DL.

Yep.

[Reuben]

This headline is encouraging: Astros searching for more than quantity as trade deadline approaches

'“Because we feel like our minor league system is fairly well-stocked, we won’t be looking for quantity in return,” Luhnow said. “We’re really going to be focused …'

Shit. Goes behind the pay wall after that. We'll never know what they're going to be focused on.

[NeilT]

This headline is encouraging: Astros searching for more than quantity as trade deadline approaches

'“Because we feel like our minor league system is fairly well-stocked, we won’t be looking for quantity in return,” Luhnow said. “We’re really going to be focused …'

Shit. Goes behind the pay wall after that. We'll never know what they're going to be focused on.

Lunch.  That's what I'm focused on.

[MusicMan]

It's the same "we'll get at least 80%, not 50%" that he's used before.

[BudGirl]

Lunch.  That's what I'm focused on.

Me too.  Too bad it's hot for Frenchy's.

[Navin R Johnson]

The 10 Most Likely MLB Players To Be Traded This Month

Chris Carter, Astros: Typically, Carter might be the sort of player a rebuilding team like Houston should hold on to. The 26-year-old outfielder and first baseman isn't eligible for arbitration until 2015, meaning that he's under team control for another five seasons at what should be a relatively inexpensive cost.

Yet with the need for right-handed hitters among playoff contenders and his potential 30-homer power, Carter should attract trade offers. He strikes out too much and could challenge the single-season record. But Carter could fill a need for a club like the Rangers or Yankees. If the Phillies decide to buy at the deadline, he could be a fit with them too.

from: http://www.bloguin.com/theoutsidecorner/2013-articles/july/10-most-likely-mlb-players-to-be-traded-2013.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[geezerdonk]

The Rangers are primed to have their pockets picked - Darvish going on the DL to join a host of other pitchers; Berkman on the DL and running out of steam; Cruz about to start a 50 game vacation. And Reid Ryan is just the guy to do it.

[NeilT]

Me too.  Too bad it's hot for Frenchy's.

How about next week?  I'd go to Telephone Thai.

[BudGirl]

How about next week?  I'd go to Telephone Thai.

Totally!  Do you have a date in mind?

[Ty in Tampa]

Totally!  Do you have a date in mind?

Um, I think he asked you.

[BudGirl]

Um, I think he asked you.

My week at lunch time is open, he usually has scheduling problems.

[homer]

My week at lunch time is open, he usually has scheduling problems.

Whoosh.

[Bench]

My week at lunch time is open, he usually has scheduling problems.

Ty was referring to date = person, not date = day of the month. 

[JimR]

Whoosh.

at about 30,000 feet

[BudGirl]

obviously I don't think the same way you guys do, and i'm glad for that.

[astrosfan76]

Heyman reporting that the asking price is two top prospects.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-heyman/22733588/astros-asking-price-is-high-on-bud-norris-but-is-it-unreasonable

[sporadic]

I would greatly appreciate the input from the far more astute fans around here what the Braves have to offer for Bud.  Seems like they might not have the luxury of fucking around in light of last night's injury...

[jaklewein]

I would greatly appreciate the input from the far more astute fans around here what the Braves have to offer for Bud.  Seems like they might not have the luxury of fucking around in light of last night's injury...

Actually, I think they might be ok.  Prior to this injury the word was out there that they were considering moving Medlen to the bullpen as they have yet another young pitcher on the rise (can't remember his name of the top of my head) and Beachy coming back well from TJ.  I realize this doesn't mean they won't add another SP but this was what I'd heard just within the last couple days.

[pots]

I would greatly appreciate the input from the far more astute fans around here what the Braves have to offer for Bud.  Seems like they might not have the luxury of fucking around in light of last night's injury...

A quick look at their top prospects shows they don't have much.  Their top prospect (likely ex-top prospect) and only top 100 guy has missed over 2 months dealing with a shoulder strain.  Wouldn't touch him.  Most interesting pitching prospect is Lucas Sims.  Last years #1 pick for the Braves.  19 and doing well at low-A.

Here's their top 20, accoring to a fansite:
http://atlantabullpen.com/2013/06/24/braves-mid-season-top-20-prospects/

[MusicMan]

I would greatly appreciate the input from the far more astute fans around here what the Braves have to offer for Bud.  Seems like they might not have the luxury of fucking around in light of last night's injury...

Sickels just posted his mid-season review of the Braves' top 20.  I think you'd be looking at something like Wood and La Stella.

[pots]

Sickels just posted his mid-season review of the Braves' top 20.  I think you'd be looking at something like Wood and La Stella.

That was his preseason look.  Wood and Teheran are already with the MLB club and Graham broke. 

[MusicMan]

That was his preseason look.  Wood and Teheran are already with the MLB club and Graham broke. 

It's a re-evaluation of his preseason.  I'd still say Wood would be a candidate.

[pots]

It's a re-evaluation of his preseason.  I'd still say Wood would be a candidate.

Where is the re-evaluation?  It was originally published in November 2012 and revised on April 4th.  If it was a re-evaluation you'd think he'd mention Graham's injury

[sporadic]

Thanks.  I did not realize they were so thin in position players...or maybe even a potential corner outfielder/DH.  Fuck, that was hard to type...believe it is my first reference to a DH.  This shit is not getting any easier.

[Bench]

Where is the re-evaluation?  It was originally published in November 2012 and revised on April 4th.  If it was a re-evaluation you'd think he'd mention Graham's injury

The order of the list is the same, the blurb is updated with how they've done so far this season.

"J.R. Graham, RHP, Grade B: Posted 4.04 ERA with 28/10 K/BB in 36 innings for Double-A Mississippi before going down with a shoulder injury. Wait and see at this point."

[astrosfan76]

Schafer?  Anyone?

[MusicMan]

Schafer?  Anyone?

We're still weeding out the problem children.

[astrosfan76]

We're still weeding out the problem children.

He burned that bridge?

[pots]

The order of the list is the same, the blurb is updated with how they've done so far this season.

"J.R. Graham, RHP, Grade B: Posted 4.04 ERA with 28/10 K/BB in 36 innings for Double-A Mississippi before going down with a shoulder injury. Wait and see at this point."

my bad, didn't see that part

[jaklewein]

Sickels just posted his mid-season review of the Braves' top 20.  I think you'd be looking at something like Wood and La Stella.

I believe Wood was the other SP the Braves were considering for the rotation, along with Beachy.

[mrpink]

I believe Wood was the other SP the Braves were considering for the rotation, along with Beachy.

He started this afternoon and even though he got knocked around a bit by the Mets (having Evan Gattis in LF didn't help), his stuff looked nasty.  There's a ton of deception in his delivery and Ron Darling (or James Woods) said he was a Chris Sale-lite.

Ralph Kiner said he reminded him of Warren Spahn.

[MusicMan]

I believe Wood was the other SP the Braves were considering for the rotation, along with Beachy.

I had just assumed they would slot Beachy in.

[jaklewein]

I had just assumed they would slot Beachy in.

Frankly, I'm surprised they'd even consider messing with Medlen.  I know he's got the experience but he took off the 2nd half of last year and had pitched well in '13 minus the last handful of starts.  Then again, that's ATL.  It seems they've always had an embarrassment of riches when it comes to SPs....going on 20+ years now.  Remember that they traded away Wainwright as well.

[Mr. Happy]

Frankly, I'm surprised they'd even consider messing with Medlen.  I know he's got the experience but he took off the 2nd half of next year and had pitched well in '13 minus the last handful of starts.  Then again, that's ATL.  It seems they've always had an embarrassment of riches when it comes to SPs....going on 20+ years now.  Remember that they traded away Wainwright as well.

You're absolutely right. I wouldn't touch Medlen. However, I think that with Tim Hudson being now out for the year, Beachy will slot into his start as early as monday.

[NeilT]

Schafer?  Anyone?

Not in high demand, just high.

[jaklewein]

Nevermind my previous thoughts...I know, this is probably standard practice around there anyhow.  See link below regarding the Braves need to add SP...possibly Norris.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/07/braves-considering-trades-for-rotation-help.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Duke]

Nevermind my previous thoughts...I know, this is probably standard practice around there anyhow.  See link below regarding the Braves need to add SP...possibly Norris.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/07/braves-considering-trades-for-rotation-help.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

The last time we made a trade with the Braves it didn't work out that well.  Tread cautiously.

[MusicMan]

The last time we made a trade with the Braves it didn't work out that well.  Tread cautiously.

Excuse me, would you like this large collection of crap for your speedy leadoff man?

[Duke]

Excuse me, would you like this large collection of crap for your speedy leadoff man?

Yes please.  Oh and you can have the conerstone back.  You're welcome!

[subnuclear]

People's expectation for that trade still way out of wack I see.

[hostros7]

Yes please.  Oh and you can have the cornerstoned back.  You're welcome!

FIFY

[jaklewein]

The last time we made a trade with the Braves it didn't work out that well.  Tread cautiously.

Exactly.  No matter what others think of the Bourn trade my belief is that the Braves generally don't get burned in trades very often.  Earlier this year they had Minor, Teheran & Delgado to deal.  They traded Delgado.  He's been pretty good but I'd say Minor and Teheran easily look like the better pitchers to this point in the season.  Not saying I know for sure it was their choice...maybe AZ really liked Delgado.  Again, as much as I hate to say it, I feel like ATL's front office always has their shit together.

[MusicMan]

People's expectation for that trade still way out of wack I see.

If that's the shit you're getting back, YOU DON'T TRADE HIM.

[Reuben]

If that's the shit you're getting back, YOU DON'T TRADE HIM.

Exactly. What should our expectations have been for a Gold Glove CF who's one of the most dynamic leadoff men in baseball, and has (at that time) a year and a half left on his contract?? Would a future quality MLB regular have been too much to ask?

[jaklewein]

If that's the shit you're getting back, YOU DON'T TRADE HIM.

Yeah, but the way that trade went down I have the following thoughts:

1.  There was little interest from teams outside ATL (most team were looking for middle of the order hitters).
2.  Atlanta was really in limbo...they wanted to add a piece but weren't really willing to give up talent.  I think it was one of those deals where if a player could be had for little to nothing then fine...if not they play the hand out that they were dealt.
3.  Ownership didn't give management the option of NOT trading Bourn (sucks but...)

Hence the shitty haul of players the Astros got.

[homer]

1.  There was little interest from teams outside ATL (most team were looking for middle of the order hitters).

That's not correct. I'm too lazy to find the article, but the report afterwards was that Ed Wade didn't even consider other offers (not sure why). The other team that was making a last minute bid was Arizona I think.

[Reuben]

Yeah, but the way that trade went down I have the following thoughts:

1.  There was little interest from teams outside ATL (most team were looking for middle of the order hitters).
2.  Atlanta was really in limbo...they wanted to add a piece but weren't really willing to give up talent.  I think it was one of those deals where if a player could be had for little to nothing then fine...if not they play the hand out that they were dealt.
3.  Ownership didn't give management the option of NOT trading Bourn (sucks but...)

Hence the shitty haul of players the Astros got.

You sure about #3? I've never heard that Wade was ordered to trade Bourn, by the deadline, period.

[subnuclear]

That's not correct. I'm too lazy to find the article, but the report afterwards was that Ed Wade didn't even consider other offers (not sure why). The other team that was making a last minute bid was Arizona I think.

He did shop around, but no one offered him a top prospect. Once he lowered his price to something else, which he did at the last minute, then yes there were other "offers". There is no evidence of better or even very good offers were available.

Clemens and Oberholtzer might be ok middle relievers at some point, maybe when the Astros are competitive again, so its not like the Astros got nothing out the deal.

[Reuben]

He did shop around, but no one offered him a top prospect. Once he lowered his price to something else, which he did at the last minute, then yes there were other "offers". There is no evidence of better or even very good offers were available.

Clemens and Oberholtzer might be ok middle relievers at some point, maybe when the Astros are competitive again, so its not like the Astros got nothing out the deal.

I'm sorry, but this is just plain wrong. It was a shitty trade, then and now, one of Wade's lows, and there's no other way to frame it, unless you have evidence that McLane ordered him to trade Bourn by the deadline.

[MusicMan]

According to Stark, in his Rumblings column:

One exec's description of the gap between how his club valued Norris and what the Astros asked for: "We weren't in the same street, the same neighborhood, the same town or the same ZIP code. I'm not going to say we needed a passport, but you could say we were definitely a few states apart."

[MusicMan]

Clemens and Oberholtzer might be ok middle relievers at some point, maybe when the Astros are competitive again, so its not like the Astros got nothing out the deal.

Nope.  N-O, no.  If you get two middle relievers, then you should have just kept him and collected a draft pick.

[Jacksonian]

Nope.  N-O, no.  If you get two middle relievers, then you should have just kept him and collected a draft pick.

IMO, Wade and his staff truly believed they'd stolen Clemens.  They saw him as a potential 2-3 starter.

[MusicMan]

IMO, Wade and his staff truly believed they'd stolen Clemens.  They saw him as a potential 2-3 starter.

Then they were idiots.  NOBODY gets over on the Braves in pitching evaluation.

[Jacksonian]

Then they were idiots.  NOBODY gets over on the Braves in pitching evaluation.

The Cardinals do.

[Jose Cruz III]

The Cardinals do.

Wow. They violated the Braves on that one.

[Jacksonian]

From Stark (via MLBTR):

"Three clubs with interest in the Astros' Bud Norris tell Stark that they have a feeling that Houston may just be gauging the hurler's trade value and could be waiting to move him this winter.  Those execs said it reminds them of how the Rays used to gauge interest in pitchers like Matt Garza and James Shields in July so they could focus on those teams' systems before dealing them the following offseason."

[jaklewein]

You sure about #3? I've never heard that Wade was ordered to trade Bourn, by the deadline, period.

Absolutely not.  It was the only explanation I could come up with.  Jacksonian's assumption that Clemens was the key may be true.

I am however fairly certain about #2.  That's because I remember hearing Frank Wren explain it this away after the deal had been made...which in turn made me want to vomit in the trash can.  I remember thinking he almost sounded embarrassed about the deal he pulled off.

[juliogotay]

Absolutely not.  It was the only explanation I could come up with.  Jacksonian's assumption that Clemens was the key may be true.

I am however fairly certain about #2.  That's because I remember hearing Frank Wren explain it this away after the deal had been made...which in turn made me want to vomit in the trash can.  I remember thinking he almost sounded embarrassed about the deal he pulled off.

I still think trading Bourne was the correct move. Wade just got fleeced on it. Boras being the biggest factor in the deal.

[Bench]

Wow. They violated the Braves on that one.

I miss Ray King.

[austro]

Wow. They violated the Braves on that one.

Interesting AA line for Wainwright from that article:

Wainwright, a 22-year-old righty, was 10-8 with a 3.37 ERA in 27 starts for Double-A Greenville last season and probably will start next season at Triple-A.

If you were just looking at numbers, those certainly wouldn't portend what he has become.

[pots]

Interesting AA line for Wainwright from that article:

If you were just looking at numbers, those certainly wouldn't portend what he has become.

Yeah, minor league win-loss record and ERA are extremely meaningless.

He was the #18 prospect overall in 2003. That should have been in there.

 

[Fredia]

astros always do bad trade imagine what they gave up for bagwell. i still shudder

[subnuclear]

Nope.  N-O, no.  If you get two middle relievers, then you should have just kept him and collected a draft pick.

I don't the difference between a draft pick and two more developed middle relievers as worth getting worked up about, but that's just me.

[BlownRanger]

Yeah, minor league win-loss record and ERA are extremely meaningless.

He was the #18 prospect overall in 2003. That should have been in there.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with the first point.  For SP prospects, I've always thought K/9 was the best minor league barometer, with opponents' BA probably next.

I'm not wild about getting caught up in prospect ratings.  I think the D-Backs had two or three pitchers rated ahead of Webb when he was called up.  Of course, that could be an overreaction on my part to how fucking pissed I get when college football and basketball fans get bent out of shape because their favorite team "is playing a 3-star recruit ahead of a 4-star recruit! WTF!".

[pots]

I agree wholeheartedly with the first point.  For SP prospects, I've always thought K/9 was the best minor league barometer, with opponents' BA probably next.

I'm not wild about getting caught up in prospect ratings.  I think the D-Backs had two or three pitchers rated ahead of Webb when he was called up.  Of course, that could be an overreaction on my part to how fucking pissed I get when college football and basketball fans get bent out of shape because their favorite team "is playing a 3-star recruit ahead of a 4-star recruit! WTF!".

Prospect Ratings take into account other things than statistics.  Often containing projection.  They are also less ractionary.  For example Olt is still on lists despite struggling this year with eye issues.    Or Bundy having Tommy John surgery.  Or a guy having a hot year.

Who would you rather have, a top 20 rated prospect or a guy in AAA with a 1.00 ERA who is not even considered a top 200 prospect?

[jbm]

I know what you are saying, but you put too much faith in published rankings, IMO.  I remember Goldstein recently saying how surprised he was in seeing that the Astros' ranking of both their prospects and other team's prospects didn't exactly mirror the commonly referenced rankings.   I got the impression he was just being polite, implying that there was a big difference between inside and outside opinions.

How much different they are we will never know.

[BlownRanger]

Prospect Ratings take into account other things than statistics.  Often containing projection.  They are also less ractionary.  For example Olt is still on lists despite struggling this year with eye issues.    Or Bundy having Tommy John surgery.  Or a guy having a hot year.

Who would you rather have, a top 20 rated prospect or a guy in AAA with a 1.00 ERA who is not even considered a top 200 prospect?

I wouldn't be able to answer your question without knowing more about both players, but I suspect you and I are in more agreement than you think.  I don't want my GM just looking at stats.  I want him looking at command, velocity, makeup, and all sorts of shit.  What I don't want him doing when offered the #75 or #150 prospect in a trade is assuming that the former is better than the latter.

[pots]

I wouldn't be able to answer your question without knowing more about both players, but I suspect you and I are in more agreement than you think.  I don't want my GM just looking at stats.  I want him looking at command, velocity, makeup, and all sorts of shit.  What I don't want him doing when offered the #75 or #150 prospect in a trade is assuming that the former is better than the latter.

Not saying that we fully disagree, but if the list is put together ocrrectly is takes into account "command, velocity, makeup, and all sorts of shit"

A prospect list is not the be all end all.  But it weighs a whole lot more heavier than stats from one year.  Which was the only point I was making in the original post. 

[Randy Watson]

Norris is scratched from the start tonight.  Have to think it's a trade.  Source is a friend of mine who has some connections (agent).  No link.

[jaklewein]

Passan saying Norris is likely to get dealt and that PIT could be the landing spot.

[Randy Watson]

Passan saying Norris is likely to get dealt and that PIT could be the landing spot.

Josh Bell maybe?

[astrosfan76]

Norris is scratched from the start tonight.  Have to think it's a trade.  Source is a friend of mine who has some connections (agent).  No link.

McTaggart, Smith, and Berman confirming Harrell starting tonight.

[Ron Brand]

Josh Bell maybe?

Some reports of a package including Tyler Glasnow.

[pots]

Norris is scratched from the start tonight.  Have to think it's a trade.  Source is a friend of mine who has some connections (agent).  No link.

and there goes my afternoon

[Ebby Calvin]

and there goes my afternoon

No kidding. Looks like Peavy was pulled from his start tonight, too.

[chuck]

Well, the Marlins are truly fucked now.

[Ebby Calvin]

Well, the Marlins are truly fucked now.

Norris and Veras for Rodon?

[NeilT]

Well, the Marlins are truly fucked now.

Not when Luhnow trades Norris for Scherzer.

[pots]

Norris and Veras for Rodon?

Pretty sure Rodon was locked up before either trade.  But this ices it

[pots]

I got to think it's the Orioles.  I'm sure they'd prefer to not have him start tonight.

[chuck]

Norris and Veras for Rodon?

Rodon, some left handed batting outfielder and who the hell cares who else.

The Norris trade surprises me. I'd bought into the speculation that the Astros were gauging his value to move in the offseason and that the team was demanding far more than anyone wanted to pay. I guess they were made a surprising offer.

[Randy Watson]

Some reports of a package including Tyler Glasnow.

That would be very nice.

[Randy Watson]

Harrell will start tonight.

[pots]

Rodon, some left handed batting outfielder and who the hell cares who else.

The Norris trade surprises me. I'd bought into the speculation that the Astros were gauging his value to move in the offseason and that the team was demanding far more than anyone wanted to pay. I guess they were made a surprising offer.

There was rumors that the Orioles were contemplating Bundy as a trade chip.  Maybe they get a prospect in return to soften the blow.  (Cause I doubt anything on the MLB roster could get him even with TJ surgery)

[geezerdonk]

Is West Virginia high A or low A?

[homer]

Well, the Marlins are truly fucked now.

The teams were both 30-51 through 81 games (approximately the first of July). The Marlins then messed around and won 10 games in July. The Astros have only won 5.

[Ron Brand]

Is West Virginia high A or low A?

Low.

[MusicMan]

Take with the appropriate heaping helpings of salt:

Jose de Jesus Ortiz ‏@OrtizKicks 6m
Keep in mind that one of the Orioles' top folks has been tailing Bud Norris for a month.

[Matt]

Take with the appropriate heaping helpings of salt:

Creepy

[jbm]

There was rumors that the Orioles were contemplating Bundy as a trade chip.  Maybe they get a prospect in return to soften the blow.  (Cause I doubt anything on the MLB roster could get him even with TJ surgery)

If they are contemplating Bundy as a trade chip, you don't want him.  

[MusicMan]

Preemptive links:

Sickels: Pirates Preseason Top 20 prospects - midseason review

Sickels: Orioles Preseason Top 20 prospects - midseason review

[MusicMan]

Rumor mill in full swing.

Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan 2m
RT @TBrownYahoo: Red Sox feel a trade for Cliff Lee is highly unlikely. Peavy or Norris still in play.

[astrosfan76]

Rumor mill in full swing.

Pirates also being mentioned. 

[Ebby Calvin]

Rumor mill in full swing.

If any of this is true, I like the bidding war between three teams.

[Jacksonian]

The other possibility, though unlikely, is that he's being pulled because it's so close to the deadline rather than there being a deal in place.  With all the activity Luhnow must be engaged in it makes sense to me to not have Norris pitch until after the deadline.

[MusicMan]

Some reports of a package including Tyler Glasnow.

FYI - Glasnow, 2013:

92.1 IP 47H 31R 23ER 8HR 50BB 128K .149 BAA 2.24 ERA

[jaklewein]

The other possibility, though unlikely, is that he's being pulled because it's so close to the deadline rather than there being a deal in place.  With all the activity Luhnow must be engaged in it makes sense to me to not have Norris pitch until after the deadline.

Is it possible this is also a tactic?  Luhnow scratches Norris in an effort to make it look like a deal is imminent.  "Last call boys."

[Randy Watson]

FYI - Glasnow, 2013:

92.1 IP 47H 31R 23ER 8HR 50BB 128K .149 BAA 2.24 ERA

BP has him as a top 50 prospect. 

[MusicMan]

BP has him as a top 50 prospect. 

at 46; Gregory Polanco, who was also rumored but now said to not be involved, was at 12 with a bullet.

[Ebby Calvin]

Danny Knobler ‏@DannyKnoblerCBS 51s
Orioles haven't even made an offer on Bud Norris as of now, have talked about Jason Vargas. http://cbsprt.co/1bGe8qx

[subnuclear]

Is it possible this is also a tactic?  Luhnow scratches Norris in an effort to make it look like a deal is imminent.  "Last call boys."

I'm assuming this.

[MusicMan]

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 4m
Pirates definitely are discussing Bud Norris acc to source. Whether that manifests in a deal is unclear

[Ebby Calvin]

Brian T. Smith ‏@ChronAstros 6m
Bud Norris still in #Astros gear and hanging with team in clubhouse, weight room. Speaking with media at 3:15 p.m. CT. General interview.

[BlownRanger]

at 46; Gregory Polanco, who was also rumored but now said to not be involved, was at 12 with a bullet.

There are rarely trade-for-prospects deals done in which the rumor mill does not contain players way better than those that end up in the trade.

[MusicMan]

Gotta love the trade deadline.

David Murphy ‏@ByDavidMurphy 7m
Jeff Francoeur just saw Michael Young walk onto the field and yelled, "Jesus Christ! You're still here?"

[Ebby Calvin]

Brian McTaggart ‏@brianmctaggart 2m
Bud Norris says he was scratched "for a lot of reasons."

[Limey]

Brian McTaggart ‏@brianmctaggart 2m
Bud Norris says he was scratched "for a lot of reasons."

He's a tobacconist.

[pots]

From what I gather it's mostly the Orioles at this point (in negotiations).

ETA Who mightbe feeling a little extra pressure with Boston landing Peavy

[VirtualBob]

This is a public service announcement.  Please protect your IQ by remembering NOT to read the comments on any of the news items posted on the official Astros site.  I forgot, and am now much dummer.

[MusicMan]

From what I gather it's mostly the Orioles at this point (in negotiations).

ETA Who mightbe feeling a little extra pressure with Boston landing Peavy

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 1m
#Orioles a team to watch today. Still would like to improve SP or find DH. #Astros’ Norris, others, have been discussed.

[pots]

Still think Bedard is gone today.  ERA in the 3s for the past 3 months.  Not going to pitch deep in games, but could be a useful addition to a team like the Diamondbacks.

[Reuben]

Still think Bedard is gone today.  ERA in the 3s for the past 3 months.  Not going to pitch deep in games, but could be a useful addition to a team like the Diamondbacks.

Hopefully Luhnow would do better than the CJ for Krauss/Borchering deal looks right now.

[jbm]

Do they have a team option for next year with Bedard?

[pots]

Do they have a team option for next year with Bedard?

Not according to BaseballReference.  Veras has the team option

[pots]

I could see Norris to the DBacks in a 3 way.  Kennedy going to another team.  Norris going to the DBacks.  And the Stros getting a good prospect from each.

Bedard would make good sense with the Orioles.  With that offense he could pitch deeper into games.

[jbm]

Well, if there isn't a team option, is he really worth much?

They might as well move him; it will speed up his would-be starts and get this season over quicker. 

[MusicMan]

With that offense he could pitch deeper into games.

Not understanding relevance of the offense.  Bedard is pitch-count limited, by his own admission.

[Fredia]

anytime a three way is mentioned on the talk zone gets my heart fluttering

[pots]

Not understanding relevance of the offense.  Bedard is pitch-count limited, by his own admission.

The assumption is with a lead he could attack hitters more.  Not to mention a better defense behind him will record more outs earlier.  

[Ebby Calvin]

Brian T. Smith ‏@ChronAstros 26s
#Astros have standing offers for Bud Norris, league source with knowledge of negotiations says. Holding out for increased offer.

[MusicMan]

Jayson Stark ‏@jaysonst 1m
#Astros seem to be collecting final offers on Bud Norris. Price still high. #Orioles still interested. One dark horse could be #SFGiants

[MusicMan]

anytime a three way is mentioned on the talk zone gets my heart fluttering

TMI

[MusicMan]

And, for the very, very little it's worth:

Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS 2m
dbacks, pirates dont seem to be aggressively pursuing norris. chance stros keep him. not big impetus to move -- $3M salary

[JimR]

TMI

MM, I thought we had discussed this.

[MusicMan]

MM, I thought we had discussed this.

No, sir.  We never discussed a threeway.

[NeilT]

No, sir.  We never discussed a threeway.

You probably just suppressed the memory.

[MusicMan]

Nick Cafardo ‏@nickcafardo 5m
As promised Bud Norris Action picking up big time in last hour.  Multiple teams involved   Orioles and Braves being two according to source

[Ebby Calvin]

No, sir.  We never discussed a threeway.

SFN

[JimR]

No, sir.  We never discussed a threeway.

we did, but you said you did not want to share.

[Ebby Calvin]

Trade imminent?

Houston Astros ‏@astros 11s
.@Erik_Bedard gets the ball against former team as #Astros take on Orioles at 6:05 CT: http://atmlb.com/12FGNYL

I thought I read Norris would pitch tonight if not traded.

[hostros7]

Trade imminent?

I thought I read Norris would pitch tonight if not traded.

Who pitches if Norris and Bedard are traded?

[JimR]

Who pitches if Norris and Bedard are traded?

I am warming up as we speak.

[MusicMan]

I am warming up as we speak.

ENOUGH.  I said no!

[Jacksonian]

Trade imminent?

I thought I read Norris would pitch tonight if not traded.

A detail from astros.com preview of tonight's game, "If Norris isn't moved before Wednesday's 4 p.m. ET Trade Deadline, he could possibly step back in and make the start. Otherwise, it'll be the lefty Bedard..."

[mrpink]

Hopefully Luhnow would do better than the CJ for Krauss/Borchering deal looks right now.

We've got a long way to go before anyone can fairly evaluate that trade.  Krauss hit just fine in OKC this year after looking like a disaster in 22 games last year.  He alone could make that trade worthwhile.

I'm a CJ fan, but no one saw him hitting .341 this year, and I'll take the under on it next year.

[MusicMan]

We've got a long way to go before anyone can fairly evaluate that trade.  Krauss hit just fine in OKC this year after looking like a disaster in 22 games last year.  He alone could make that trade worthwhile.

I'm a CJ fan, but no one saw him hitting .341 this year, and I'll take the under on it next year.

His BABIP is over .420.  Not. Sustainable.

[Ty in Tampa]

ENOUGH.  I said no!

So THAT'S what diet coke through the nose feels like.

[Ebby Calvin]

A detail from astros.com preview of tonight's game, "If Norris isn't moved before Wednesday's 4 p.m. ET Trade Deadline, he could possibly step back in and make the start. Otherwise, it'll be the lefty Bedard..."

You expect me to read past the headline?
Thanks for the clarification.

[MusicMan]

From ESPN chat:

jerrycrasnick
Truby, Bud Norris has been out there for a while now, obviously. I think the teams that have had interest in him -- like the Giants and Indians -- view him as more of a No. 4 type, innings eating starter. So far, Astros GM Jeff Luhnow is asking for the kind of talent you'd expect when you're dealing a staff ace. Unless he drops the price significantly today, it's going to be difficult for him to move Norris. He's certainly waiting to the last minute.

[pots]

From ESPN chat:
jerrycrasnick
Truby, Bud Norris has been out there for a while now, obviously. I think the teams that have had interest in him -- like the Giants and Indians -- view him as more of a No. 4 type, innings eating starter. So far, Astros GM Jeff Luhnow is asking for the kind of talent you'd expect when you're dealing a staff ace. Unless he drops the price significantly today, it's going to be difficult for him to move Norris. He's certainly waiting to the last minute.

That's silly.  Name one true ace you can land for just 2 top prospects?  That is under team control for 2 more years and is fairly cheap

[MusicMan]

Round and round we go.

eff Passan ‏@JeffPassan 4m
Latest on Bud Norris: Atlanta has jumped into foray. Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Arizona still possibilities. General sense: He'll be dealt.

[MusicMan]

Or:

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 2m
Sources: #Braves are not on Bud Norris. Never have been.

[Ebby Calvin]

Round and round we go.

Indeed.

Danny Knobler ‏@DannyKnoblerCBS 23s
Trade chatter definitely picking up today on Bud Norris. Braves, Diamondbacks may now have interest. Orioles not in on him, though.

[Noe]

The latest:

Freak @Number1AstrosFan
Who is Bud Norris?

[geezerdonk]

Luhnow shouldn't trade Norris unless he is overwhelmed. I am glad to see him holding out.

[MusicMan]

Luhnow shouldn't trade Norris unless he is overwhelmed. I am glad to see him holding out.

He can afford to play chicken on this.

[homer]

The natural rivals also appear to be interested.

Some talk of Rangers interest in Norris, possibly to spin off for a hitter

[Reuben]

His BABIP is over .420.  Not. Sustainable.

BABIP? Dude, it's all about the line-drive %.

Seriously, though, at the time I thought they were lucky to get anything for CJ, whose 3B play made me retch and who I thought was lucky to even hit .270. On the other hand, the Astros will be lucky if Krauss hits enough to be a DH, and Borchering has been a complete disaster. Bad trade only in present-day hindsight.

[Reuben]

He can afford to play chicken on this.

I thought the same thing with Wandy last year, but...

[pots]

Luhnow shouldn't trade Norris unless he is overwhelmed. I am glad to see him holding out.

As far as I can tell, stances have not changed.  Luhnow will only trade if overwhelmed and teams wanting him are not willing to do that.  Unless somebody cracks in the next 3 hours.  Bud is pitching tonight for the Astros.

[Reuben]

@DannyKnoblerCBS
Correcting earlier tweet: Braves are not in on Bud Norris. Sorry, misunderstood a text message.

[Ebby Calvin]

Bud is pitching tonight for the Astros.

I'm starting to lean this way too, which means he'll get dealt.

[pots]

@DannyKnoblerCBS
Correcting earlier tweet: Braves are not in on Bud Norris. Sorry, misunderstood a text message.

Again odd since Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports was credited with the Braves rumor according to MLBTR

[Jacksonian]

That's silly.  Name one true ace you can land for just 2 top prospects?  That is under team control for 2 more years and is fairly cheap

Calling him a #4 is silly too.  His ERA is below 4 and better than Verlander's at this point.  All with the trade deadline weighing on him for the first time in his career.

[Reuben]

Again odd since Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports was credited with the Braves rumor according to MLBTR

Knobler seems like a tool.

[jaklewein]

Again odd since Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports was credited with the Braves rumor according to MLBTR

I still don't the that the Braves are in on Norris.  They currently have Medlen, Teheran, Minor, Beachy, Maholm and Wood (the kid).  I see a need for them to add an ace but little more.  Norris doesn't fit that bill.

[Reuben]

It seems like if you're the Pirates, after all these years of losing, you've gotta go all-in (or close to it) to try to make it happen this year. Ditto for the Orioles, although they at least made the playoffs last year. Pittsburgh, of course, has a deep farm system to draw from, the O's do not.

[jaklewein]

I'm kind of surprised Bedard isn't being talked about more.

[Matt]

The natural rivals also appear to be interested.

Some talk of Rangers interest in Norris, possibly to spin off for a hitter

Probably because they're about to lose Nelson Cruz for the rest of the season.

[Reuben]

@Joelsherman1
A top exec thinks #Astros Bud Norris definitely gets moved (#Indians, #Orioles), #Twins Morneau does not

@DannyKnoblerCBS
Astros have had some contact with Indians on Bud Norris. Not clear yet how strong the interest is.

[jbm]

Calling him a #4 is silly too.  His ERA is below 4 and better than Verlander's at this point.  All with the trade deadline weighing on him for the first time in his career.

Well, his career ERA, all earned at 24 and older, is north of 4.  

I have no way of knowing, but it wouldn't surprise me if most teams view him as a 4 that can eat innings.  

[BudGirl]

thought this was funny.

Matt Jackson ‏@MJ4Sports  32m 
Source: Despite last night's retirement of Scott Elarton, the Sugar Land Skeeters are NOT in on Bud Norris.

[pots]

Traded or not, this has been entertaining

[Reuben]

Well, his career ERA, all earned at 24 and older, is north of 4.  

I have no way of knowing, but it wouldn't surprise me if most teams view him as a 4 that can eat innings.  

That's funny. Never thought of Bud as an "innings-eater". To me, he's a #3 or 4 who still has some upside if he can ever figure how to get lefties out. Or, he could potentially be a really good closer.

[Jacksonian]

Well, his career ERA, all earned at 24 and older, is north of 4.  

I have no way of knowing, but it wouldn't surprise me if most teams view him as a 4 that can eat innings.  

This year he's going out every 5th day and giving up 3 runs over 6 -7 innings.  If that's your #4 you've got a hell of a deep staff.

[Jacksonian]

That's funny. Never thought of Bud as an "innings-eater". To me, he's a #3 or 4 who still has some upside if he can ever figure how to get lefties out. Or, he could potentially be a really good closer.

He's 27th overall in innings pitched this year in the AL.  That's #2-3 level innings.

[Reuben]

He's 27th overall in innings pitched this year in the AL.  That's #2-3 level innings.

I stand corrected, didn't realize that. Still, you'd think an "innings-eater" would have at least 1 career complete game.

Looks like the Dbacks are gonna trade Ian Kennedy, seems like they would need another starter...

[Reuben]

@DannyKnoblerCBS
With two hours to go, Astros still believe they have 4 teams interested in Bud Norris.

[Jacksonian]

They believe!?  Either they're talking to teams or they aren't.

[jbm]

That's funny. Never thought of Bud as an "innings-eater". To me, he's a #3 or 4 who still has some upside if he can ever figure how to get lefties out. Or, he could potentially be a really good closer.

That's kind of how I view him also, but I don't ever see this dog learning new tricks.

[pots]

First interesting Bedard tweet

Lee White‏@Lee_White732m
.@ChronAstros Any news on Erik Bedard? Hearing Brett Oberholtzer will start in his place.

[Reuben]

hmmm, yep:

@brianmctaggart 2m

#Astros have scratched Erik Bedard and LHP Brett Oberholtzer will start tonight. Bedard has not been traded.

[Jacksonian]

hmmm, yep:

So, as of right now, neither Norris nor Bedard to start.

[pots]

Thought this one was funny:

Gruber's Mullet‏@GrubersMullet5m
This tweet canceled itself out. "@DannyKnoblerCBS: Hearing that a Bud Norris deal is becoming more likely, but still not at all certain."

[MusicMan]

They believe!?  Either they're talking to teams or they aren't.

And I belieeeeeve that in 2013 Neil Huntington changed his mind about Bud Norris...
I am and Astros fan,
and an Astros fan just believes.

[Noe]

Maybe Luhnow is channeling Brad Pitt from Moneyball and doing all sorts of frenetic phone calling right now. Where is Jonah Hill when you need him?!?

[Reuben]

rinse, repeat...

Jayson Stark ‏@jaysonst 3m

Now hearing chances of Bud Norris getting traded today are up to about 75 percent. But not there yet. Multiple teams still in it.

[das]

rinse, repeat...

When is the deadline?

[subnuclear]

When is the deadline?

4 pm today.

[Ty in Tampa]

rinse, repeat...

This is like a 48-hour microcosm of watching the stocks in your retirement plan.

[Reuben]

When is the deadline?

4 pm, or 3 for those hicks in the Central time zone.

OK, here we go... acceleration...

Ken Rosenthal@Ken_Rosenthal
Finally some movement on Norris: #Pirates, #Orioles, #DBacks in touch with #Astros, talks have accelerated in last hour.

[das]

4 pm today.

That's EST, right?

[pots]

Now that the DBacks have unloaded Kennedy you would have to think they are getting somebody.

[Ty in Tampa]

That's EST, right?

Yes.

*extends pinky and sips tea*

[MusicMan]

And heeeeere weeeeeee go:

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 4m
Finally some movement on Norris: #Pirates, #Orioles, #DBacks in touch with #Astros, talks have accelerated in last hour.

[MusicMan]

Jayson Stark ‏@jaysonst 3m

Now hearing chances of Bud Norris getting traded today are up to about 75 percent. But not there yet. Multiple teams still in it.

60% of the time, it will work every time.

[Jacksonian]

2 Cabrera posts in a row. Impressive.

[BudGirl]

And heeeeere weeeeeee go:

Dude, Reuben got you a couple minutes ago.  I expect better of you.

4 pm, or 3 for those hicks in the Central time zone.

OK, here we go... acceleration...

[Ty in Tampa]

2 Cabrera posts in a row. Impressive.

Not taking his required triple espresso I see.

[Limey]

60% of the time, it will work every time.

Except that Norris would smell like bigfoot's dick.

[MusicMan]

2 Cabrera posts in a row. Impressive.

Nah, the second one was commenting on Reuben's, you just can't quote a quote.

[geezerdonk]

All this back and forth is the trade deadline rumor version of recon by fire. Someone who has no idea what is going on throws out baseless speculation hoping to provoke a return from someone who has good information.

[Ebby Calvin]

All this back and forth is the trade deadline rumor version of recon by fire. Someone who has no idea what is going on throws out baseless speculation hoping to provoke a return from someone who has good information.

Welcome to the internet.  Take a while and look around.

[Ebby Calvin]

Jayson Stark ‏@jaysonst 29s
Orioles still alive on Bud Norris. Giants looking "doubtful," one source says.

[pots]

Kudos to Luhnow for creating this big of a buzz. 

[Ebby Calvin]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 28s
Sources: #Royals acquire OF Justin Maxwell from #Astros.

[Ty in Tampa]

All this back and forth is the trade deadline rumor version of recon by fire. Someone who has no idea what is going on throws out baseless speculation hoping to provoke a return from someone who has good information.

Shit. Wall. Stick.

[MusicMan]

Maxwell? WTF?

[BudGirl]

Was he working on his pitching?  I'm not sorry to see him go.  Good luck to him though.

[pots]

Ha, Maxwell from left field

[subnuclear]

Did the Astros get anything in particular in return for Maxwell?

[MusicMan]

Did the Astros get anything in particular in return for Maxwell?

George Springer to the majors?

[NeilT]

Kudos to Luhnow for creating this big of a buzz. 

Just a reminder, you are hanging out watching an Astros fansite.  This may well be the only place this big of buzz exists.

[NeilT]

Maxwell? WTF?

Great to unload that salary.

[MusicMan]

Just a reminder, you are hanging out watching an Astros fansite.  This may well be the only place this big of buzz exists.

I've had MLB Network on all day.  They've spent literally at least 40% of their time on him.  Of course, Harold Reynolds is the only one talking him up, so that's an issue.

[BudGirl]

If Norris/Bedard get traded, does Appel get called up?

[Ebby Calvin]

Of course, Harold Reynolds is the only one talking him up, so that's an issue.

That's because he wants Appel to replace him in the rotation.

[Matt]

If Norris/Bedard get traded, does Appel get called up?

I'm guessing Asher and/or Peacock.

[pots]

I've had MLB Network on all day.  They've spent literally at least 40% of their time on him.  Of course, Harold Reynolds is the only one talking him up, so that's an issue.

Yeah, MLBTR, twitter, etc. 

[BudGirl]

I was trying to be silly since Reynolds said Appel could be in Houston by July.  Of course, he probably was when he signed but I think he meant pitching.

[MusicMan]

If Norris/Bedard get traded, does Appel get called up?

Only if it's the apocalypse.  In which case, I hope Hermione doesn't steal all my shit.

[Matt]

I was trying to be silly since Reynolds said Appel could be in Houston by July.  Of course, he probably was when he signed but I think he meant pitching.

Ah okay.

[NeilT]

I was trying to be silly since Reynolds said Appel could be in Houston by July.  Of course, he probably was when he signed but I think he meant pitching.

You're being way too subtle for this group.

[BudGirl]

How weird would it be if Norris was traded to the Orioles and then pitched against the Astros tomorrow? Has that happened before?

[MusicMan]

How weird would it be if Norris was traded to the Orioles and then pitched against the Astros tomorrow? Has that happened before?

I recall a story of a player switching teams between games of a doubleheader.

(Kids, a doubleheader was this thing where they used to play two games in one day.)

[Reuben]

Ha:

Ted Berg@OGTedBerg
Bud Norris trade talks continue accelerating, now sound like a Micro Machines commercial.

(no idea who Ted Berg is).

[jbm]

Ha:(no idea who Ted Berg is).

I feel even stupider, as I have no idea what a Micro Machines commercial sounds like.

[MusicMan]

Jon Heyman on air saying that the O's are most serious for Norris.

[MusicMan]

I feel even stupider, as I have no idea what a Micro Machines commercial sounds like.

My lawn.  Get off it.

[mrpink]

I feel even stupider, as I have no idea what a Micro Machines commercial sounds like.

Like this....

IfeelevenstupiderasIhavenoideawhataMicroMachinescommercialsoundslike!!!!!!

I don't miss them.

[subnuclear]

I feel even stupider, as I have no idea what a Micro Machines commercial sounds like.

For your edification.

[BudGirl]

Someone better shit soon because the automatic toilet is about to flush.

Anyone know what the Astros got for Maxwell? 

[NeilT]

Someone better shit soon because the automatic toilet is about to flush.

Anyone know what the Astros got for Maxwell? 

Salary relief, I tells ya!

[jaklewein]

I recall a story of a player switching teams between games of a doubleheader.

(Kids, a doubleheader was this thing where they used to play two games in one day.)

Joel Youngblood?

[jwhudson]

The Astros receive minor league pitcher Kyle Smith, tweets Bob Dutton of the Kansas City Star.

[OregonStrosFan]

Someone better shit soon because the automatic toilet is about to flush.

Anyone know what the Astros got for Maxwell?

Royals (via Twitter):

Kansas City Royals ‏@Royals
#Royals acquire outfielder @JustinMaxwell44 from the Astros for minor league pitcher Kyle Smith, who was with the @WilmBlueRocks.

[MusicMan]

Rosenthal says Orioles close to concluding a Norris deal.

[BudGirl]

where's the scouting report?  I am surprised the Bus Ride guys don't have that already.

[BudGirl]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal  11s 
Sources: #Orioles agree to acquire Norris from #Astros for Hoes and another piece. Finalizing now.

[Jacksonian]

where's the scouting report?  I am surprised the Bus Ride guys don't have that already.

I'm working on it.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

The Astros receive minor league pitcher Kyle Smith, tweets Bob Dutton of the Kansas City Star.

From a quick perusal of his Baseball-Reference page, he's a 21 yr old righty who's averaging almost a K an inning in High A ball.

[JackAstro]

Jon Heyman on air saying that the O's are most serious for Norris.

Of note: Bud would be the 4th best pitcher in the Oriole's rotation, statistically.

[Limey]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal  11s 
Sources: #Orioles agree to acquire Norris from #Astros for Hoes and another piece. Finalizing now.

Funny.  I thought that Houston had Hoes already.

[Ebby Calvin]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal  11s 
Sources: #Orioles agree to acquire Norris from #Astros for Hoes and another piece. Finalizing now.

I'm assuming the other piece is Bitches

[homer]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal  11s 
Sources: #Orioles agree to acquire Norris from #Astros for Hoes and another piece. Finalizing now.

Snoop does not love this deal.

[NeilT]

The Astros receive minor league pitcher Kyle Smith, tweets Bob Dutton of the Kansas City Star.

High A, 3.31 SO/BB.  From my reading of the Bus Ride, that's what I think I'm supposed to look at.

[OregonStrosFan]

where's the scouting report?  I am surprised the Bus Ride guys don't have that already.

Mayo's updated rankings dubbed him as the Royals 11th best prospect (was 16th at the beginning of the season).  Here is Mayo's scouting report on him:

Scouting Grades* (present/future): FB: 5/6 | Curve: 4/5 | Slider: 4/5 | Changeup: 5/5 | Control: 5/6 | Overall: 4/5
The Royals gave Smith an over-slot bonus to sign in 2011, but he signed too late to make his pro debut. While he didn't get started until short-season play began in 2012, the right-hander's timetable was moved up as he was bumped up to the full-season Midwest League and pitched exceptionally well there. Though he was drafted out of high school, he pitches more like a polished college arm. His fastball tops out at 92-93 mph, but he can move it in and out. His breaking stuff and his changeup both should be at least Major League average and play up because of his command. He repeats his delivery very well and that should help him move up the ladder fairly quickly, even if his ceiling is that of a No. 3 or 4 starter.

[jaklewein]

From a quick perusal of his Baseball-Reference page, he's a 21 yr old righty who's averaging almost a K an inning in High A ball.

and almost a 4/1 K/BB ratio.  Was a 4th round pick out of HS.  Just looking at stats and the fact that he was a 4th rounder, but I'm actually surprised by the get on this one.

[Limey]

I'm assuming the other piece is Bitches Boats

FIFY

[OregonStrosFan]

Funny.  I thought that Houston had Hoes already.

I thought the selling point was 'Baby Mommas'...

[NeilT]

I'm assuming the other piece is Bitches

Always useful for the Offshore Technology Conference.

[BudGirl]

Snoop does not love this deal.

the responses to his tweet are rather amusing.

[pots]

Wow, all this hype for a no-pop corner outfielder?

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

I thought the selling point was 'Baby Mommas'...

We're not talking about Dwight Howard.

[Ron Brand]

Wow, all this hype for a no-pop corner outfielder?

Really. The O's #7 prospect is a long way down from that tease yesterday.

[Jacksonian]

and almost a 4/1 K/BB ratio.  Was a 4th round pick out of HS.  Just looking at stats and the fact that he was a 4th rounder, but I'm actually surprised by the get on this one.

Most impressive considering Maxwell's track record and that he was a waiver pick up.

[NeilT]

I can't wait to see Hoes fangroup in the outfield.  Wonder how the Astros will market it?

[Jacksonian]

Mayo's updated rankings dubbed him as the Royals 11th best prospect (was 16th at the beginning of the season).  Here is Mayo's scouting report on him:

Scouting Grades* (present/future): FB: 5/6 | Curve: 4/5 | Slider: 4/5 | Changeup: 5/5 | Control: 5/6 | Overall: 4/5
The Royals gave Smith an over-slot bonus to sign in 2011, but he signed too late to make his pro debut. While he didn't get started until short-season play began in 2012, the right-hander's timetable was moved up as he was bumped up to the full-season Midwest League and pitched exceptionally well there. Though he was drafted out of high school, he pitches more like a polished college arm. His fastball tops out at 92-93 mph, but he can move it in and out. His breaking stuff and his changeup both should be at least Major League average and play up because of his command. He repeats his delivery very well and that should help him move up the ladder fairly quickly, even if his ceiling is that of a No. 3 or 4 starter.

And he's still 20 (September birthday).

[mrpink]

Mayo's updated rankings dubbed him as the Royals 11th best prospect (was 16th at the beginning of the season).  Here is Mayo's scouting report on him:

Marc Hulet had him ranked #10 on KC's preseason list.  He had this to say:

The contact I spoke with said that he needs to continue to pitch aggressively and trust his stuff

Uh-oh.

[OregonStrosFan]

Baseball Reference page on Hoes lists his positions as "Leftfielder, Pinch Hitter and Pinch Runner"...

[pots]

Baseball Reference page on Hoes lists his positions as "Leftfielder, Pinch Hitter and Pinch Runner"...

Waiting on the other piece...

[OregonStrosFan]

And he's still 20 (September birthday).

Honestly, seems like a pretty good pick-up in exchange for Maxwell.

[NeilT]

So is Bedard back in the lineup tonight?

[Jacksonian]

Really. The O's #7 prospect is a long way down from that tease yesterday.

Reminds me of a 2 years younger version of this guy.

[Ron Brand]

Waiting on the other piece...

Better be one charming motherfucking piece.

[pots]

Making more sense...

2:44pm: The two sides are still debating over a third piece in the deal, Rosenthal tweets. The tentative structure, for now, is Hoes, a Competitive Balance draft pick and a potential third piece. The Orioles won the second pick of Comp Round A in this year's Competitive Balance lottery.

Basically just landed a late first round pick in a deep draft

[jwhudson]

2:47pm: The Orioles will also send Josh Hader and their Competitive Balance pick to the Astros, according to Dan Connolly of the Baltimore Sun (on Twitter).

[pots]

That's more like it.  Nice left handed prospect (Hader).  #5 on the Orioles list

[BudGirl]

Hader  The kid is 19.  Young.

[pots]

Scouting Grades* (present/future): Fastball: 6/6 | Curveball: 4/5 | Changeup: 4/5 | Control: 4/5 | Overall: 4/5
 The Orioles clearly like finding talent in their own backyard and Hader has the chance to be the best success story among the locals. The tall, skinny lefty saw his velocity take a huge leap forward during his summer debut in the organization. He was throwing his fastball in the 89-93 mph range and there could be room for more as he continues to get stronger. His curveball and changeup both have the chance to be at least Major League average and it looks like he'll have pretty good control of all three pitches. He's very athletic, which helps him repeat his delivery, fields his position and holds runners well. Because of his body type and potential for his stuff, he draws comparisons to White Sox lefty Chris Sale, something the Orioles wouldn't mind seeing at all.

 

[Ron Brand]

That's more like it.  Nice left handed prospect (Hader).  #5 on the Orioles list

Much better.

[BudGirl]

So, the O's gave up their #5, #7 and a draft pick for Norris? 

[pots]

Hader  The kid is 19.  Young.

Wow:
Height: 6' 3", Weight: 160 lb.

[subnuclear]

Norris and Maxwell were good Astros! Good luck to them!

[Ebby Calvin]

johnsickels ‏@MinorLeagueBall 6m
Working on trade reactions. But Maxwell for Smith.WTF is that?Maxwell is 29 and has never hit MLB pitching well. Smith is a solid prospect.

[OregonStrosFan]

So is Bedard back in the lineup tonight?

McTaggart (via Twitter)

Brian McTaggart ‏@brianmctaggart
Bedard has not been traded. Said his shoulder was sore, just needs a couple of days.

[BudGirl]

Norris and Maxwell were good Astros! Good luck to them!

+1

[JackAstro]

So... Hader's to the left, Hoes' to the right?

[NeilT]

McTaggart (via Twitter)

Brian McTaggart ‏@brianmctaggart
Bedard has not been traded. Said his shoulder was sore, just needs a couple of days.

Sounds like Luhnow soreness syndrome to me.

[pots]

uh oh

2:49pm: An issue with Hader's medicals could lead to a switch in the second prospect headed to Houston, tweets Danny Knobler of CBS Sports.

[OregonStrosFan]

More from Sickels:

johnsickels ‏@MinorLeagueBall 5m
Smith/Maxwell is shocking. Really. That would get vetoed by some fantasy commissioners

[pots]

McTaggart (via Twitter)

Brian McTaggart ‏@brianmctaggart
Bedard has not been traded. Said his shoulder was sore, just needs a couple of days.

bad timing

[OregonStrosFan]

More from Sickels:

johnsickels ‏@MinorLeagueBall 5m
Smith/Maxwell is shocking. Really. That would get vetoed by some fantasy commissioners

Then again, there is Parks' take (via Twitter) on the trade... (Take it away in 3.. 2.. 1...)

Jason Parks ‏@ProfessorParks
Kyle Smith has good numbers, but the scouting reports don't match the drapes. Diminutive RHP with fringe FB and plus CB. It's only okay.

[MusicMan]

So... Hader's to the left, Hoes' to the right?

Stealing. This.

[MusicMan]

Mayo:
"When all is said and done, we may be talking about Josh Hader as the best player to move today."

[Ron Brand]

Then again, there is Parks' take (via Twitter) on the trade... (Take it away in 3.. 2.. 1...)

Jason Parks ‏@ProfessorParks
Kyle Smith has good numbers, but the scouting reports don't match the drapes. Diminutive RHP with fringe FB and plus CB. It's only okay.

Maxwell had been at his ceiling for a while already, and there's not going to be any room for him in the Astros' outfield pretty soon - if there was now.

[MusicMan]

More from Sickels:

johnsickels ‏@MinorLeagueBall 5m
Smith/Maxwell is shocking. Really. That would get vetoed by some fantasy commissioners

And his instant react on Minor League Ball:

WTF
That’s shocking. Smith is a fine prospect

[Limey]

So... Hader's to the left, Hoes' to the right?

Here I am, stuck in the middle with you.

[pots]

So, the O's gave up their #5, #7 and a draft pick for Norris? 

Gausman might not count as a prospect anymore so #4 and #6 plus the pick

[jbm]

Maxwell had been at his ceiling for a while already, and there's not going to be any room for him in the Astros' outfield pretty soon - if there was now.

I'm impressed he got anything at all for him.  

So, is this Hoes guy gonna fill the spot, or might it be one of the AAA guys?  

[pots]

So does Hoes take Maxi's spot?

[Reuben]

mlb.com story says Hoes was in O's lineup tonight.

[pots]

Peacock, Stassi and possibly Thurman just fell off the top 20 list for the Stros. 

[Ebby Calvin]

mlb.com story says Hoes was in O's lineup tonight.

So does Mr. Happy.

[OregonStrosFan]

Gausman might not count as a prospect anymore so #4 and #6 plus the pick

Unless the Astros suddenly go on a hot streak, looks like they'll have 3 of the top 40 picks (1, 33, 38) in the (deep) 2014 draft.

[MusicMan]

Jim Callis ‏@jimcallisBA 3m
Wasn't good there. Not an option. @garrett_white: any idea why Hoes moved off second for Baltimore? Any chance #Astros would move him back?

[MusicMan]

Peacock, Stassi and possibly Thurman just fell off the top 20 list for the Stros. 

Stassi discovered his bat.  He stays.

[pots]

Unless the Astros suddenly go on a hot streak, looks like they'll have 3 of the top 40 picks (1, 33, 38) in the (deep) 2014 draft.

Why the 33rd?

[Ty in Tampa]

MLB Network: "The rich get richer, from an organizational standpoint."

[pots]

Stassi discovered his bat.  He stays.

Mayo won't re-weight, he'll fall

[OregonStrosFan]

Why the 33rd?

The Norris deal included the Orioles competitive balance lottery pick for the 2014 draft.

[kevwun]

uh oh

Same guy who said the Orioles definitely weren't after Norris.

[Ebby Calvin]

Jonathan Mayo ‏@JonathanMayoB3 40s
Have been told Josh Hader is definitely now a member of the @Astros #tradedeadline

[Ebby Calvin]

Danny Knobler ‏@DannyKnoblerCBS 2m
L.J. Hoes in lineup for Astros tonight.

[OregonStrosFan]

Julia Morales (via Twitter):

Julia Morales ‏@JuliaMoralesCSN
Hoes just walked into Astros clubhouse.

[pots]

The Norris deal included the Orioles competitive balance lottery pick for the 2014 draft.

Ah so the 38th is the 2nd round pick.  Isn't there possible qualifying offer picks before round 2?

[Jacksonian]

Ah so the 38th is the 2nd round pick.  Isn't there possible qualifying offer picks before round 2?

Those numbers are for the current status.  Of course there will be updates.  The question is how many?

[MikeyBoy]

Julia Morales (via Twitter):

Julia Morales ‏@JuliaMoralesCSN
Hoes just walked into Astros clubhouse.

Don't be a player Hader, Julia.

[Limey]

Hoes just walked into Astros clubhouse.

For the first time, I am starting to regret my boycott of baseball.  Some many jokes*!


* Actually, the same joke, but endlessly rehashable.

[geezerdonk]

How do you get L. J. from Jerome O'Bryan?

[hostros7]

For the first time, I am starting to regret my boycott of baseball.  Some many jokes*!


* Actually, the same joke, but endlessly rehashable.

He's already been inserted into the 2-hole tonight. 

[BudGirl]

Maybe his dad is also named Jerome, so he was Little Jerome?

[roadrunner]

I can't wait for next year's draft.  Weird how early June and late July are the most exciting times to be an Astros fan.  Who cares about October?

[Matt]

For the first time, I am starting to regret my boycott of baseball.  Some many jokes*!


* Actually, the same joke, but endlessly rehashable.

Hoes becoming an Astro could be the highlight of the season.

[BudGirl]

I can't wait for next year's draft.  Weird how early June and late July are the most exciting times to be an Astros fan.  Who cares about October?

I am praying to care about October in 2 years.

[Limey]

He's already been inserted into the 2-hole tonight. 

Hoes goes at the front, big guy.

[VirtualBob]

Hoes goes at the front, big guy.

Hoes must have something going for him other than stats ... he is hitless in two major league seasons.

[JimR]

Hoes must have something going for him other than stats ... he is hitless in two major league seasons.

0-4 over 2 years. Carter does that in 1 day.

[Jose Cruz III]

I'm assuming the other piece is Bitches

Nominated

[VirtualBob]

0-4 over 2 years. Carter does that in 1 day.

Yeah ... but Hoes went a whole season without striking out.

[Limey]

Yeah ... but Hoes went a whole season without striking out.

If you strike out with Hoes, you may as well give up.

[NeilT]

If you strike out with Hoes, you may as well give up.

This will just never get old.

[Noe]

There is no truth to the rumor that Hoes came into the Houston clubhouse screaming "Show me the money!"

[jaklewein]

Hoes must have something going for him other than stats ... he is hitless in two major league seasons.

So far he's walked more than he's struckout in AAA (58/56), helping to yield an OBP over .400.  It's obviously Luhnow values this.  Reminds me of the kid they got from the Cubs a month or so ago.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

There is no truth to the rumor that Hoes came into the Houston clubhouse screaming "Show me the money!"

Crane just told him to write himself a check.

[VirtualBob]

So far he's walked more than he's struckout in AAA (58/56), helping to yield an OBP over .400.  It's obviously Luhnow values this.  Reminds me of the kid they got from the Cubs a month or so ago.

Actually that is 92 BB and 99 K over two years at AAA ... as long as we are going to ditch the [sarc] flag, lets get the data right.  Still, a .391 AAA OBP is not bad.

[VirtualBob]

There is no truth to the rumor that Hoes came into the Houston clubhouse screaming "Show me the money!"

I think he did arrange to get cash up front, though.

[BudGirl]

Kyle Smith has been removed from Mayo's Twins top 20 prospect list (#11) and did not make the Astros top 20.   Twins were number 2 on Ketih Law's preseason list, #4 on BP's list and #10 on BA's list.

Why would Smith be on the Twins list?  Wouldn't he be on the Royals list?

[pots]

Why would Smith be on the Twins list?  Wouldn't he be on the Royals list?

Doh, my bad.  Nothing to see here

[NeilT]

Why would Smith be on the Twins list?  Wouldn't he be on the Royals list?

Both "Smith" and "Twins" are popular aliases.

[BudGirl]

Maybe his dad is also named Jerome, so he was Little Jerome?

Steve Sparks ‏@SteveSparks37  12m 
.@astros LJ Hoes stands for "Little Jerome." His dad's the big one.

[pots]

Maybe his dad is also named Jerome, so he was Little Jerome?



Quote

Steve Sparks ‏@SteveSparks37  12m 
.@astros LJ Hoes stands for "Little Jerome." His dad's the big one.

So is his dad BJ Hoes?

[moriartp]

So is his dad BJ Hoes?

I LOVE THIS TRADE

[Fredia]

hoes bitches and threeways.. never imagined that it would all come down on this site

[Matt]

Bud starts for the Orioles tomorrow.

[VirtualBob]

Hitless streak continues.  We got hoesed.

[Limey]

Bud starts for the Orioles tomorrow.

Hoes and bud - sounds like a crazy night!

[Randy Watson]

Nice to see Altuve and Castro heat up.

Really love the trades we have made.  Especially the fleecing of the Royals.

[MusicMan]

Hoes and bud - sounds like a crazy night!

Did the O's Bros get informed of the deal first?

[Reuben]

Did the O's Bros get informed of the deal first?

Of course. Bros before Hoes.

[astrosfan76]

The Norris deal included the Orioles competitive balance lottery pick for the 2014 draft.

This money could come in handy next year if Rodon is selected. 

[jbm]

This money could come in handy next year if Rodon is selected. 

I was thinking the same.  If Rodon is the second coming as people claim, and just a junior, they may well need to go over slot.  In a way, that kind of limits the value of the pick. 

[pots]

I was thinking the same.  If Rodon is the second coming as people claim, and just a junior, they may well need to go over slot.  In a way, that kind of limits the value of the pick. 

Likely just get full slot (~8 million).  Anything more than that is highly unlikely with the current CBA.  To pick up a guy who falls due to signability, you'd have to combine the 2nd and 3rd pick though.  With some college senior getting a thanks for playing bonus.

[jbm]

Likely just get full slot (~8 million).  Anything more than that is highly unlikely with the current CBA. 

Have you forgotten Appel already?

[pots]

Have you forgotten Appel already?

Yeah he accepted an underslot bonus.  I just don't see a team ever giving anyone more than full slot for 1-1.  Unless it's part of the 5% you are allowed to go over. 

[jbm]

I meant circa 2012, when he, as a college junior, held out for more than slot.  I understand that the new CBA makes it less likely, but if Rodon comes in with the hype he presently has, it wouldn't be surprising for him to test something much higher than 1-1 slot.  

edited to correct the year and poor grammar.

[Reuben]

I meant circa 2012, when he, as a college junior, held out for more than slot.  I understand that the new CBA makes it less likely, but if Rodon comes in with the hype he presently has, it wouldn't be surprising for him to test something much higher than 1-1 slot.  

edited to correct the year and poor grammar.

You mean how Appel held out for more than the 8th overall slot money after the Pirates drafted him? I don't recall reading anything about wanting more than 1/1 slot from the Astros - the way I understand it, they offered him $6m (well under slot) and he didn't jump on it, so they moved on.

[pots]

You mean how Appel held out for more than the 8th overall slot money after the Pirates drafted him? I don't recall reading anything about wanting more than 1/1 slot from the Astros - the way I understand it, they offered him $6m (well under slot) and he didn't jump on it, so they moved on.

Yeah, full slot 1-1 hasn't even happened yet.  I think Rodon might be the first.  Asking for more is just a huge risk with little reward.  If you get injured your looking at throwing away a minimum of 4-5 million (on the assumption you can be fixed).   If you do stay healthy you are going to have to land 1-1 the next year and then hope that team will give you more than 1-1 money with you having nearly almost no leverage.  It's just not going to happen short of them cloning Babe Ruth from some DNA.

[jbm]

Yes, I am aware it was the 8th slot, and what Appel might have asked from the Astros in 2012 for 1-1 is not comparable to what Rodon, a player with tons more hype, might ask for in 2014 for 1-1.  My point, probably inartfully made, is simple: even under the new CBA, a college junior can hold out for over slot, like Appel did, and the Astros might need to scavenge from other picks if that scenario arises.    

[Reuben]

Yes, I am aware it was the 8th slot, and what Appel might have asked from the Astros in 2012 for 1-1 is not comparable to what Rodon, a player with tons more hype, might ask for in 2014 for 1-1.  My point, probably inartfully made, is simple: even under the new CBA, a college junior can hold out for over slot, like Appel did, and the Astros might need to scavenge from other picks if that scenario arises.    

Great Scott, you're right! The Astros are doomed! DOOMED!!!

[pots]

Yes, I am aware it was the 8th slot, and what Appel might have asked from the Astros in 2012 for 1-1 is not comparable to what Rodon, a player with tons more hype, might ask for in 2014 for 1-1.  My point, probably inartfully made, is simple: even under the new CBA, a college junior can hold out for over slot, like Appel did, and the Astros might need to scavenge from other picks if that scenario arises.    

1-1 next year given a similar increase in bonuses to this year would be 8.4 million.  That would be 25% more than the highest bonus paid out so far under the new CBA.  If he scares off the team holding 1-1 with a high demand then the next team has to come up with 1.2 milion just to match 8.4 million.  Most I could sanely seeing Rodon asking for is 8.4 million plus 5% ( 8.8 ).  The lesson Appel taught everyone is don't scare off 1-1.  

[astrosfan76]

1-1 next year given a similar increase in bonuses to this year would be 8.4 million.  That would be 25% more than the highest bonus paid out so far under the new CBA.  If he scares off the team holding 1-1 with a high demand then the next team has to come up with 1.2 milion just to match 8.4 million.  Most I could sanely seeing Rodon asking for is 8.4 million plus 5% ( 8.8 ).  The lesson Appel taught everyone is don't scare off 1-1.  

The rate of increase for this year's slots was 8.2% which was based on the rise in revenue for MLB.  I don't know if that's up again this year or how much.  If revenue were to decrease, I don't see them lowering slot, but it would probably stay the same.  I don't know if it will even continue going up based on revenue, either. 

In the scenario you list, you see Rodon asking for as much as $8.8M, 5% over slot.  In that scenario, doesn't having the extra supplemental pick play into that?  It gives you more available cap to sign guys for a little under slot.  So, instead of having to take $400K off of rounds 2-10, you get an extra $1.6+-$1.8M from that slot to work with. 

[pots]

In the scenario you list, you see Rodon asking for as much as $8.8M, 5% over slot.  In that scenario, doesn't having the extra supplemental pick play into that?  It gives you more available cap to sign guys for a little under slot.  So, instead of having to take $400K off of rounds 2-10, you get an extra $1.6+-$1.8M from that slot to work with. 

The 5% over slot I was referring to was just from the 4.99999% you are allowed to go over without taking the draft pick hit.  Not from any other pick

[astrosfan76]

The 5% over slot I was referring to was just from the 4.99999% you are allowed to go over without taking the draft pick hit.  Not from any other pick

Right, but the 5% is cumulative for the first 10 rounds, so getting an extra $1.6-1.8M adds even more room. There's no reason the player/agent can't say they want $9M and if the Astros don't give it, someone in the top 3 will. The other teams won't have as much extra for other picks, though how much depends on how many extra picks they have. If they feel Rodon is heads above everyone else, they can make a case for going all-out on him.

[austro]

Maxwell paid off for KC today with a walk-off, extra-innings HR to beat the Mets.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Maxwell paid off for KC today with a walk-off, extra-innings HR to beat the Mets.

Good for him.

[Fredia]

fine as long as the astros are not playing them

[Mr. Happy]

Maxwell paid off for KC today with a walk-off, extra-innings HR to beat the Mets.

I'm pulling for them to overtake the Tigers.

[Fredia]

wonder how long the tigers will stay in  detroit

[juliogotay]

wonder how long the tigers will stay in  detroit

they aren't going anywhere.

[BudGirl]

Tigers go to Chicago on Tuesday.