Wilton Lopez to Philly

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

MLBTradeRumors saying it's a done deal, but no word yet on return.  Do the Phils even have any prospects worth poaching anymore?

[astrosfan76]

MLBTradeRumors saying it's a done deal, but no word yet on return.  Do the Phils even have any prospects worth poaching anymore?

Ethan Martin was a name that was floated in the nixed Lee deal, he was traded to Philly in the Victorino deal.  Josh Lindblom could be an option, though he's not technically a prospect any more.  Not a lot of blue-chip prospects, but pitching prospects is their strength.

[Bench]

MLBTradeRumors saying it's a done deal, but no word yet on return.  Do the Phils even have any prospects worth poaching anymore?

Maybe they'll send us Ed Wade. 

[mrpink]

So who does that leave worth a shit in the bullpen?  Wright?

[pots]

Wow, Luhnow must really like someone in the 2014 draft. 

[Reuben]

MLBTradeRumors saying it's a done deal, but no word yet on return.  Do the Phils even have any prospects worth poaching anymore?

dominic brown?

[juliogotay]

Wow, Luhnow must really like someone in the 2014 draft. 

Why do you say that? I don't follow since BB doesn't allow for trading draft picks.

[BudGirl]

Why do you say that? I don't follow since BB doesn't allow for trading draft picks.

I took it to mean #1 pick again.

[pots]

I took it to mean #1 pick again.

Yeah this is where I was going.  The pen was horrendous.  Lopez gone, Storey gone.  Going to lose a lot of games late. Still a long winter but the theme is still tear it down.

[MusicMan]

Wow, Luhnow must really like someone in the 2014 draft. 

Yes, Wilton Lopez would have made the difference.  We're an entire two wins worse without him, maybe.

[pots]

Yes, Wilton Lopez would have made the difference.  We're an entire two wins worse without him, maybe.

109 losses should lock up the #1 draft pick in 2014.  I'm not complaining here.  2013 has little chance anyways.  But it's interesting to see that they are still selling.

A great sell, highly doubtful Lopez will ever have as much worth. 

[astrosfan76]

Yeah this is where I was going.  The pen was horrendous.  Lopez gone, Storey gone.  Going to lose a lot of games late. Still a long winter but the theme is still tear it down.

I guess it depends on the return, but I was hoping that they were moving past that phase.  Maybe they pick up some valuable pieces in trade(s) and they've given the indication that they don't mind paying for free agents.  So, it's not a death blow, and they could still be a better team next season, it just may be with more new faces.

[astrosfan76]

109 losses should lock up the #1 draft pick in 2014.  I'm not complaining here.  2013 has little chance anyways.  But it's interesting to see that they are still selling.

Have....you met the Marlins?

[pots]

Phillies have 2 top catchers at AA and AAA. Maybe they are willing to part with an area of strength there.

[MusicMan]

Phillies have 2 top catchers at AA and AAA. Maybe they are willing to part with an area of strength there.

Not when their starter is one more piss test from being gone for the year.

[juliogotay]

Yeah this is where I was going.  The pen was horrendous.  Lopez gone, Storey gone.  Going to lose a lot of games late. Still a long winter but the theme is still tear it down.

Luhnow has his work cut out putting together a pen.

[pots]

Luhnow has his work cut out putting together a pen.

And Stoffel and Zeid weren't protected either.  So possibly less help for the pen coming from the minors next year. 

[juliogotay]

I was just on Orangebloods and Jeff Ketchum, a Phillie fan I believe, says he's heard a catcher named Valle mentioned as going to Houston. It seems he's pretty good.

[MusicMan]

I was just on Orangebloods and Jeff Ketchum, a Phillie fan I believe, says he's heard a catcher named Valle mentioned as going to Houston. It seems he's pretty good.

But can he tell us when Mack will "resign"?

[jaklewein]

But can he tell us when Mack will "resign"?

I don't even know who the Astros received in the trade and I'm fine with the deal.  I'll have more fun following the player(s) the team receives than watching Lopez pitch in the few meaningful games the big club will play in next year.

[mrpink]

I was just on Orangebloods and Jeff Ketchum, a Phillie fan I believe, says he's heard a catcher named Valle mentioned as going to Houston. It seems he's pretty good.

Well, if they get Sebastian Valle (who is the son of Dave Valle I think), this may not be that bad of a trade in my eyes.  Unfortunately he's the "catcher of the future" on my NL-only fantacrap team.  So thanks for that Amaro.

ETA: Nevermind..looks like Sebastian is from Mexico and Dave is from NY.  So it's doubtful they're kin.

[astrosfan76]

And Stoffel and Zeid weren't protected either.  So possibly less help for the pen coming from the minors next year. 

Rule 5 draft is coming soon, so we could see a bullpen arm or two that way.

[jbm]

I don't even know who the Astros received in the trade and I'm fine with the deal.  I'll have more fun following the player(s) the team receives than watching Lopez pitch in the few meaningful games the big club will play in next year.

Crazy talk, IMO.  We now aspire to be Pirates fans?

[JackAstro]

I don't even know who the Astros received in the trade and I'm fine with the deal.  I'll have more fun following the player(s) the team receives than watching Lopez pitch in the few meaningful games the big club will play in next year.

Not sure I understand the thinking here. Lopez is a very good at his job, cheap, and under club control for quite a while, I believe. That's the sort of player the Astros should be acquiring, not sending away. Shouldn't it matter if the club gets good value in return, or is the team reduced to being entertaining only insofar as it keeps introducing us to new players?

[moriartp]

I've been wondering for the past couple of hours if Luhnow's willingness to trade Lopez had anything to do with a risk of him getting hurt next year. Kiley McDaniel (ESPN) tweets: This Wilton Lopez physical with Philly isn't a slam dunk. Some clubs have been scared off by his medicals in the recent past.

Also, if Luhnow is serious about trying to win more games next year, he has to make an effort to restock the bullpen. As disastrous as the rest of the team was, a better bullpen might have meant a double-digit increase in wins last season. It'd be the quickest and cheapest way of turning the Astros into a run-of-the-mill shitty team (as opposed to the clusterfuck they are).

[juliogotay]

I've been wondering for the past couple of hours if Luhnow's willingness to trade Lopez had anything to do with a risk of him getting hurt next year. Kiley McDaniel (ESPN) tweets: This Wilton Lopez physical with Philly isn't a slam dunk. Some clubs have been scared off by his medicals in the recent past.

Also, if Luhnow is serious about trying to win more games next year, he has to make an effort to restock the bullpen. As disastrous as the rest of the team was, a better bullpen might have meant a double-digit increase in wins last season. It'd be the quickest and cheapest way of turning the Astros into a run-of-the-mill shitty team (as opposed to the clusterfuck they are).

I, too,  wondered about the injury aspect as being an impetus to a trade. But you have to believe it also reduces is value.

[jaklewein]

Crazy talk, IMO.  We now aspire to be Pirates fans?

Why?  This team won't sniff .500 for at least another season or two.  I've accepted that and am ok with that so long as the club continues to try and improve its future.  The Astros will only be the Pirates when they start sniffing .500 and then decide to start trading stars like Singleton, etc. after their first year of arbitration instead of paying them and adding more talent to a youthful core via FAgency.  Am I wrong to think that the team won't be competitive until players like Springer and Singleton start making thier way to the big leagues?

[jaklewein]

Not sure I understand the thinking here. Lopez is a very good at his job, cheap, and under club control for quite a while, I believe. That's the sort of player the Astros should be acquiring, not sending away. Shouldn't it matter if the club gets good value in return, or is the team reduced to being entertaining only insofar as it keeps introducing us to new players?

I went a little overboard with my comments.  Yes, is should matter if the club gets good value in return.  If they don't then it was a bad deal.  I guess I'm assuming Luhnow will make a good deal.

[Bench]

Not sure I understand the thinking here. Lopez is a very good at his job, cheap, and under club control for quite a while, I believe. That's the sort of player the Astros should be acquiring, not sending away. Shouldn't it matter if the club gets good value in return, or is the team reduced to being entertaining only insofar as it keeps introducing us to new players?

Luhnow has always talked about organizational depth being a priority.  If they are getting a decently regarded catching prospect in return, that would beef up a position of need from one that is generally a pu pu platter to begin with.  That's just speculation of course, given that we don't really know who's coming back. 

[David in Jackson]

Not sure I understand the thinking here. Lopez is a very good at his job, cheap, and under club control for quite a while, I believe. That's the sort of player the Astros should be acquiring, not sending away. Shouldn't it matter if the club gets good value in return, or is the team reduced to being entertaining only insofar as it keeps introducing us to new players?

I agree. 

[Limey]

If they are getting a decently regarded catching prospect in return, that would beef up a position of need from one that is generally a poou poou splatter to begin with.  

FIFY

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Lopez was a good Astro stuck in a shitty era. I hope nothing but the best for him.

[Reuben]

Lopez was a good Astro stuck in a shitty era. I hope nothing but the best for him.

Bummed to hear about this. I liked Lopez a lot. He was more than your run-of-the-mill quality set-up guy: Had that great, hard sinker, could give you 2 innings if you needed it, some flair to him, but not quite a hot-dogger, and I loved the way he would just sling the ball up there. And of course, walked guys about as often as Brian Bogusevic avoided grounding out to 2nd.

Looking at the Phils' top prospects list on mlb.com, it's hard to get excited about any of their "high minors" guys who are supposedly coming in exchange for Wilton. I don't think the Astros need more marginal 40-man types (ala Krauss) right now.

[juliogotay]

Bummed to hear about this. I liked Lopez a lot. He was more than your run-of-the-mill quality set-up guy: Had that great, hard sinker, could give you 2 innings if you needed it, some flair to him, but not quite a hot-dogger, and I loved the way he would just sling the ball up there. And of course, walked guys about as often as Brian Bogusevic avoided grounding out to 2nd.

Looking at the Phils' top prospects list on mlb.com, it's hard to get excited about any of their "high minors" guys who are supposedly coming in exchange for Wilton. I don't think the Astros need more marginal 40-man types (ala Krauss) right now.

Middle relievers just don't bring back alot. Of course, there was this Larry Anderson guy...

[OregonStrosFan]

Lopez was a good Astro stuck in a shitty era. I hope nothing but the best for him.

One of the many reasons to like Wilton Lopez.

[Reuben]

Middle relievers just don't bring back alot. Of course, there was this Larry Anderson guy...

Is Wilton not a more valuable pitcher than Melancon was at this time last year? That trade brought a nice return. Both had good stuff and less than a full season of closing experience. But Lopez has a much more impressive track record now than Melancon did a year ago.

Just saw this article, which seems to offer some new info:

While nothing is official and names won’t be divulged until then, a source said the cost is a pair of prospects close to ready for big-league action.

One of the prospects discussed was catcher Sebastian Valle, who became expendable when the Phils acquired another backstop, Tommy Joseph,
...

The safe money for the other prospect is one of the handful of relievers the Phils brought up last season — Justin DeFratus, Mike Stutes, Michael Schwimer or Jake Diekman.

De Fratus seems interesting. Great FB and slider, good control, projects as a very good set-up man or closer. Valle was rated their #3 prospect by BA last year, and has a rep as a very good catcher, and he has power, but he seems to have horrible plate discipline- 13 BB to 114 SO this year in AA/AAA. He is only 21 though.

[juliogotay]

Is Wilton not a more valuable pitcher than Melancon was at this time last year? That trade brought a nice return. Both had good stuff and less than a full season of closing experience. But Lopez has a much more impressive track record now than Melancon did a year ago.

Just saw this article, which seems to offer some new info:De Fratus seems interesting. Great FB and slider, good control, projects as a very good set-up man or closer. Valle was rated their #3 prospect by BA last year, and has a rep as a very good catcher, and he has power, but he seems to have horrible plate discipline- 13 BB to 114 SO this year in AA/AAA. He is only 21 though.

Good point about Melancon.

[moriartp]

Is Wilton not a more valuable pitcher than Melancon was at this time last year? That trade brought a nice return. Both had good stuff and less than a full season of closing experience. But Lopez has a much more impressive track record now than Melancon did a year ago.

Just saw this article, which seems to offer some new info:De Fratus seems interesting. Great FB and slider, good control, projects as a very good set-up man or closer. Valle was rated their #3 prospect by BA last year, and has a rep as a very good catcher, and he has power, but he seems to have horrible plate discipline- 13 BB to 114 SO this year in AA/AAA. He is only 21 though.

Diekman (one of the pitchers mentioned) made his debut against the Astros. Gotta work on the walks, but I wouldn't mind having him. A trade for Valle & Diekman would also help with Luhnow's goal of adding catching and LHP to the system.

[hostros7]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal

Status of trade between #Phillies, #Astros unclear. One source insists deal not done and multiple teams remain in mix for Wilton Lopez...

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal

Another source says deal would be 2-for-1. RHP Tyler Cloyd could go to #Astros. Teams also have discussed #Phillies' young catchers.

[Limey]

One of the many reasons to like Wilton Lopez.

Fun story, and a fabulous quote from Batshit Guillen:

“Very mature,” Marlins manager Ozzie Guillen said sarcastically when asked about the incident. “He’s lucky I wasn’t Hanley. I would have chased his [rear] all the way to Puerto Rico.”

Yes.  Mature indeed.

[astrosfan76]

Cloyd scouting report:

He returned to Reading to begin 2012 and was excellent in four starts (1.80 ERA, 20/3 K/BB in 25 innings). Promoted to Triple-A Lehigh Valley, he's continued to perform well against International League competition, going 12-1, 2.35 in 22 starts. Overall this year, he is 15-1, 2.26 in 26 starts, with a 113/41 K/BB ratio in 167 innings, allowing only 127 hits.

Obviously his numbers are very good, but Cloyd doesn't show up highly on prospect lists. You can guess the reason: he doesn't throw hard. He can top out at 92 on his best days, but usually works in the 86-89 range. Scouts rate his slider and changeup as merely adequate, but the combination of the three pitches has worked well in the minors since he throws strikes and locates his pitches well. If his location is off, he usually misses high, which can result in excessive home runs.

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/8/29/3276929/minor-league-prospect-report-tyler-cloyd-philadelphia-phillies-scouting

[JackAstro]

Fun story, and a fabulous quote from Batshit Guillen:

“Very mature,” Marlins manager Ozzie Guillen said sarcastically when asked about the incident. “He’s lucky I wasn’t Hanley. I would have chased his [rear] all the way to Puerto Rico.”

Yes.  Mature indeed.

And, as noted at the time, Lopez is from Nicaragua, Ozzie is from Venezuela, Ramirez is from the Dominican Republic.

[Bench]

The trade has hit "hit a roadblock:

Lopez, who was in Philadelphia on Wednesday for a physical, remains with the Astros on Thursday. The two teams were working on a deal to send Lopez to Philadelphia in exchange for a pair of Minor League prospects, but the Astros are exploring other options.

Tags doesn't say it right out, but it appears to be an issue with the physical as speculated earlier. 

[BUWebguy]

Another reporter on Twitter (can't remember who) was saying this morning it just may be a difference in approach  -- that the Phillies were pressing to make the deal, while the Astros were simply exploring their options and not necessarily interested in a deal right now, today. That could be the roadblock, as well.

[cougar]

And, as noted at the time, Lopez is from Nicaragua, Ozzie is from Venezuela, Ramirez is from the Dominican Republic.

I always thought Ozzie was from Mars.  Or Uranus.

[BUWebguy]

CSN Philly says the Phillies have "put the brakes" on the deal. Unclear if it's the physical or something else.
http://www.csnphilly.com/baseball-philadelphia-phillies/phillies-talk/Phillies-stop-pursuit-of-reliever-Wilton?blockID=807723&feedID=704

[pots]

http://blog.chron.com/ultimateastros/2012/11/29/astros-luhnow-discusses-lopez-berkman-martinez-trades-rule-5/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

The Astros will likely select either a pitcher or position player with the first pick in the Rule 5 draft.

Mighty fine line there Brian.  That journalism school really paid off

[pots]

http://blog.chron.com/ultimateastros/2012/11/29/astros-luhnow-discusses-lopez-berkman-martinez-trades-rule-5/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Mighty fine line there Brian.  That journalism school really paid off

oops forgot about dh. 

[pots]

Rule 5 choices:
http://www.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2012/#list=rule5

[astrosfan76]

Rule 5 choices:
http://www.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2012/#list=rule5

Since we're probably not looking for a 1B with Wallace and Singleton, Fields looks like as good of a candidate as any.  Stuff's there, close to the majors, and fills a need. 

[juliogotay]

Since we're probably not looking for a 1B with Wallace and Singleton, Fields looks like as good of a candidate as any.  Stuff's there, close to the majors, and fills a need. 

Luhnow does find 1st Rounders attractive.

[Reuben]

Rule 5 choices:
http://www.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2012/#list=rule5

It took me a minute to realize this list was in alphabetical order, not by talent or potential.

[astrosfan76]

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck

Rockies continue looking to add relief help and have talked with Astros about Wilton Lopez. If health fine, and told is OK, he'd help

[pots]

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck
#Rockies closing in on acquiring reliever Wilton Lopez from Astros... Know that the Astros like AA pitcher Parker Frazier

Not sure why they would trade for him when they can just nab him in the rule 5 draft.  Odd

ETA.  Cool, he replied to my tweet. 

[Reuben]

Not sure why they would trade for him when they can just nab him in the rule 5 draft.  Odd

New tweet says: Rockies would look to send two young pitchers to Houston for Lopez, a proven setup man. Parker Frazier would not be in deal

[pots]

Tags is saying done deal

Brian McTaggart ‏@brianmctaggart
Wilton Lopez to the Rockies. More to come. #Astros

[pots]

Hmmm.  Confidence is lowering:

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck
@brianmctaggart who covers for Astros for http://atmlb.com/12CYWy  said it's done... Rox say not official. Brian knows stuff. Expect done soon

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck
As wrote earlier, I expect Rockies to land Lopez...Teams ironing out last few wrinkles.
 

[pots]

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck
Rox acquire Lopez for Alex White and a minor league pitcher

Retweeted by MLB Trade Rumors

[pots]

Houston Astros ‏@astros
#Astros acquire RHPs Alex White and Alex Gillingham from Colorado in exchange for RHP Wilton Lopez and a player to be named later.

[Reuben]

Another former #1 pick. This one with actual MLB experience, although the stats ain't pretty. Ranked #47 prospect overall by BA in 2011.

[moriartp]

Badler: Alex White's stock has tumbled. Perception isn't as good as reality here.

More Badler: Sure, I could see that RT @crapshoot101 tumbled to being a middle reliever, tumbled?

Yowch.

[pots]

Brian McTaggart ‏@brianmctaggart
Luhnow said Alex White is in rotation. Team will explore closer options internally and externally. Ambriz, Cosart among possibilities.

[Ebby Calvin]

Looks like White was one of the centerpieces of the Ubaldo Jiminez trade with CLE.

[Mr. Happy]

I'm unimpressed with White. Luhnow better know what he's doing.

[pots]

This was definitely a sell high buy low trade but we still don't know who the other piece the Stros gave up is

[juliogotay]

I'm unimpressed with White. Luhnow better know what he's doing.

Can you elaborate a little? Have you seen him or looking at his stat lines? I don't remember seeing him pitch.

[pots]

Read a couple of scouting reports.  This one is old but seems to contain everything the other ones had:
http://projectprospect.com/article/2009/07/30/alex-white-scouting-report

[Tralfaz]

Wind-up looks a little like the Rocket. Sans the bat throw at Piazza of course.

[astrosfan76]

I'd give him a chance.  Moving away from Coors never hurts and the thicker air could do wonders for the movement on his two-seamer (along with his other pitches).  For a groundball pitcher, that could be huge. 

If you want to get nerdier, here's a writeup of his MLB debut with some numbers from Mike Fast.

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2011/5/2/2148790/hello-alex-white

[juliogotay]

I'm not getting real excited reading about White. Odd that Colorado would give up on a "ground ball pitcher".

[Mr. Happy]

Can you elaborate a little? Have you seen him or looking at his stat lines? I don't remember seeing him pitch.

I only saw him throw once and it was against the Astros (we lit him up), and he really struggled with his command, so it's a limited sample size. I like how he throws a two-seam fastball and gets a lot of ground balls when he's on. I love that he throws a pretty good splitter too, but I'm very partial to both the two-seamer and splitter. I guess that, now that I think about it, he has a chance to be like Harrell if he develops, but he's got to work on that command. I guess that the deal is okay. Lopez wasn't going to be much of a factor for this club this season anyway.

[pots]

So he signs in 2009 doesn't pitch

2010:
 - 8 starts in high A - Dominated hitters but walked a few too many
 - Then 17 starts at AA - Dominated there.  Walks were down but so were strikeouts

2011:
 - 4 starts at AAA where he dominated (not pitching deep into games yet)
 - Then 3 in the majors for Cleveland was pitching okay but ended up on the disabled list with a strained finger in the middle of his 3rd start
 - Then traded to Colorado in July while still on the disabled list
 - Then 4 starts at AA where he dominated while once again building back up the arm strength
 - Then 4 starts in AAA where he slapped around the competition striking out 28 while walking only 5 in 23.2 innings
 - Then to the majors again for a 7 game stint he'd probably rather forget.  Getting bashed around.  12 HRs and 16 walks over 36 innings.  One game he got the win giving up 5 HRs over 6 innings.

2012:
 - Started 2012 in AAA where he pitched well for 5 games
 - Got called up in early May.  Got slapped around
 - Back to AAA for July.  6 game stint this time.  Pitched well but walked a few too many
 - Called back up in early August for another beating
 - Finshed the season with 3 relief appearances that didn't go well either


If you remove the 3 beatings he took with the Rockies major league team, he's done pretty well.

[jbm]

Still don't understand the rush to deal Lopez, but Luhnow sures seems high on White.  I like that Luhnow saw him years back, was struck by the talent, and is hanging on to that assessment (not a stat-driven assessment).  Of course, he might be dead wrong, but I like that he has a strong, confident opinion and is willing to deal on that opinion. 

[subnuclear]

Read a couple of scouting reports.  This one is old but seems to contain everything the other ones had:
http://projectprospect.com/article/2009/07/30/alex-white-scouting-report

He has the "Inverted W"! Run for your lives!

[ValpoCory]

Lopez wasn't going to be much of a factor for this club this season anyway.

Had he remained an Astro in 2013, why don't you think he was going to be much of a factor?

[NeilT]

Had he remained as Astro in 2013, why don't you think he was going to be much of a factor?

Clearly because the Astros bullpen never loses a game, and good pitching out of the bullpen is irrelevant.  Plus the American League doesn't actually use relief pitching.

[Bench]

Luhnow is the anti-Wade.  He eschews relievers and collects starters. 

[juliogotay]

Luhnow is the anti-Wade.  He eschews relievers and collects starters. 

He certainly collects 1st rounders.

[Mr. Happy]

Had he remained an Astro in 2013, why don't you think he was going to be much of a factor?

All I meant was that the Astros are going to suck this season, so the closer, had it been Lopez, wouldn't have had much work anyway. It's probably worth the gamble to get an inning eating starter. Lopez would have languished oout there.

[hostros7]

fwiw

Probably reliever. Still a great deal for HOU. RT @cheltrack: @keithlaw Believe Alex White can still be a capable 3/4 Sp or future reliever?

[jaklewein]

I watched an interview with Luhnow in which he smiled and kind of had a gleam in his eye when asked about Gillingham, as if to say, "We stole him."