Author Topic: FTC (Read 42521 times)

Savage · « **on:** November 17, 2012, 08:48:53 pm »

I am so not ok with the idea of JD calling Cubs games.

OregonStrosFan · « **Reply #1 on:** November 17, 2012, 09:01:43 pm »

I'm a firm believer in the phrase 'ignorance is bliss.' I could've gone without knowing this little tidbit of information for a lifetime or so... FML!

jbm · « **Reply #2 on:** November 17, 2012, 09:06:12 pm »

Why haven't those jackasses locked him in by now?

OregonStrosFan · « **Reply #3 on:** November 17, 2012, 09:06:32 pm »

And if this were actually somehow to happen (which surely it won't), I wouldn't so much be saying FTC as I'd be saying FTA(stros)...

OregonStrosFan · « **Reply #4 on:** November 17, 2012, 09:32:23 pm »

I was kinda hoping this was pure BS... but...now Berman is reporting it as well...

Mark Berman ‏@MarkBermanFox26
Comcast SportsNet Chicago reports Astros long-time television analyst Jim Deshaies has interviewed to join the Chicago Cubs broadcast team.

Ebby Calvin · « **Reply #5 on:** November 17, 2012, 09:34:17 pm »

No. Please no.

Savage · « **Reply #6 on:** November 17, 2012, 09:39:38 pm »

Article now updated that the frontrunner, Dan Plesac, has withdrawn his name from consideration.

austro · « **Reply #7 on:** November 17, 2012, 09:47:14 pm »

I will fucking quit listening/watching if JD goes to the Cubs. I used to think that chuck was going over the top, but I'm no longer so sure. A very good friend of mine dropped dead from a heart attack this week, and that's causing me to re-evaluate a lot of my priorities, including my propensity to spend a lot of evenings watching the Astros.

remy · « **Reply #8 on:** November 17, 2012, 09:59:51 pm »

There will be blood.

Navin R Johnson · « **Reply #9 on:** November 17, 2012, 10:37:05 pm »

This isn't good.

subnuclear · « **Reply #10 on:** November 17, 2012, 10:42:56 pm »

Maybe he just wants a pay raise.

chuck · « **Reply #11 on:** November 18, 2012, 12:07:48 am »

You pussies.

In all seriousness, I am very sorry for your loss, austro.

Col. Sphinx Drummond · « **Reply #12 on:** November 18, 2012, 06:02:35 am »

As the dismantling proceeded, and the history and the tradition were defecated upon, maybe JD got a bit frustrated with the Astros, too. I can't get very worked up over this. If it makes him happy, good for him. I wish him nothing but the best. Still, FTC.

Mr. Happy · « **Reply #13 on:** November 18, 2012, 08:01:02 am »

Quote from: austro on November 17, 2012, 09:47:14 pm

I will fucking quit listening/watching if JD goes to the Cubs. I used to think that chuck was going over the top, but I'm no longer so sure. A very good friend of mine dropped dead from a heart attack this week, and that's causing me to re-evaluate a lot of my priorities, including my propensity to spend a lot of evenings watching the Astros.

i'm sorry for your loss. Life is precious.

roadrunner · « **Reply #14 on:** November 18, 2012, 09:34:47 am »

Fuck me. This can't happen.

juliogotay · « **Reply #15 on:** November 18, 2012, 12:00:01 pm »

Quote from: roadrunner on November 18, 2012, 09:34:47 am

Fuck me. This can't happen.

As much as I hate to think it, I'd bet JD's as good as gone. Clearly he's open to looking and not under contract. If I were him and didn't have a contract by now I'd be really pissed. there are only so many of these jobs and as much as we all hate the FTC this is a good one where he would get more exposure on WGN and surely a bigger paycheck. Hell, they'll make him a fuckin' star. And he likes working in the daytime, he's said many time how much he enjoys having his evenings off.

To whomever is responsible for not having him under contract, "Fuck you and the horse you rode in on."

juliogotay · « **Reply #16 on:** November 18, 2012, 01:18:52 pm »

If you want to voice your opinion about this impending thumb in the eye http://whattheheckbobby.blogspot.com/2012/11/stupid-is-as-stupid-does.html

Reuben · « **Reply #17 on:** November 18, 2012, 01:40:40 pm »

I sent McTaggart the following email this morning:

Quote

Hi Brian,

I am writing in hopes that you can help convey to the Astros that they absolutely cannot let Jim Deshaies leave. I'm sure you heard the report that he has interviewed for the Cubs analyst opening. This is extremely disconcerting news. JD has always been a pleasure to listen to - he is one of the very best analysts in baseball, period - but especially these last few years when the team has been terrible, he has been brilliant in the face of some wretched baseball. He has made it all bearable.

Please tell me how I can help prevent the Astros from letting Deshaies go. It is not even a question of "they need to try their best to keep him from going to the Cubs". No, they simply need to do it, I don't want to hear about "try".

Is there someone with the Astros, Postolos or someone else more directly connected with the hiring of the broadcast team, who I, and other disgruntled Astros fans, could contact directly to make our feelings on this matter known?

To his credit, he wrote back within an hour or so, albeit not quite with the info or empathy I was hoping for:

Quote

As far as I know, Deshaies was coming back. Sounds like his decision to interview with Cubs.

Anyone know Postolos' email? I think we need to make our voices heard on this, and fast. I'm not letting JD go without a fuckin' fight.

Reuben · « **Reply #18 on:** November 18, 2012, 01:50:52 pm »

Quote from: juliogotay on November 18, 2012, 01:18:52 pm

If you want to voice your opinion about this impending thumb in the eye http://whattheheckbobby.blogspot.com/2012/11/stupid-is-as-stupid-does.html

I tried calling the phone number listed there -713-259-800- it's a general "Astros" greeting, that then transfers back to itself; didn't connect to a voice mailbox.

OregonStrosFan · « **Reply #19 on:** November 18, 2012, 02:07:55 pm »

Quote from: Reuben on November 18, 2012, 01:40:40 pm

I sent McTaggart the following email this morning:

Hi Brian,

I am writing in hopes that you can help convey to the Astros that they absolutely cannot let Jim Deshaies leave. I'm sure you heard the report that he has interviewed for the Cubs analyst opening. This is extremely disconcerting news. JD has always been a pleasure to listen to - he is one of the very best analysts in baseball, period - but especially these last few years when the team has been terrible, he has been brilliant in the face of some wretched baseball. He has made it all bearable.

Please tell me how I can help prevent the Astros from letting Deshaies go. It is not even a question of "they need to try their best to keep him from going to the Cubs". No, they simply need to do it, I don't want to hear about "try".

Is there someone with the Astros, Postolos or someone else more directly connected with the hiring of the broadcast team, who I, and other disgruntled Astros fans, could contact directly to make our feelings on this matter known?

Excellent email Rueben, thank you.

Quote

Anyone know Postolos' email? I think we need to make our voices heard on this, and fast. I'm not letting JD go without a fuckin' fight.

I'll join wholeheartedly. but let me just add that I am f***ing pissed that this has somehow even become an issue in the first place. After all the crap Astros fans have had to deal with already to add even this possibility to the mix?!? F***ing ridiculous.

OregonStrosFan · « **Reply #20 on:** November 18, 2012, 02:13:53 pm »

Quote from: Reuben on November 18, 2012, 01:50:52 pm

I tried calling the phone number listed there -713-259-800- it's a general "Astros" greeting, that then transfers back to itself; didn't connect to a voice mailbox.

I'm hoping that it'll be of more use tomorrow 'during regular business hours.'... Perhaps in the interim some of the season ticket holders (or people more in the know) can provide us with better numbers to get hold of folks with...

Navin R Johnson · « **Reply #21 on:** November 18, 2012, 04:21:43 pm »

JD isn't from Havard and didn't work for BP, so I guess he doesn't fit into the new Astros model.

Reuben · « **Reply #22 on:** November 18, 2012, 04:34:01 pm »

Quote from: Navin R Johnson on November 18, 2012, 04:21:43 pm

JD isn't from Havard and didn't work for BP, so I guess he doesn't fit into the new Astros model.

Nor is he a former 1st-round draft pick...

Sarcasm aside, I hope no one thinks that the GM is the one who hires or negotiates with the TV analysts. Postolos would be my guess.

Bench · « **Reply #23 on:** November 18, 2012, 06:15:20 pm »

According to Berman: @MarkBermanFox26: Jim Deshaies on interviewing 4 Cubs analyst job: "It's WGN, the Cubs. It's a big job. I wasn't looking. They called me. No offer made."

OregonStrosFan · « **Reply #24 on:** November 18, 2012, 06:16:55 pm »

More from Berman via Twitter: (THIS LINK is to Berman's Twitter page, not these specific quotes):

Mark Berman ‏@MarkBermanFox26
Jim Deshaies on interviewing 4 Cubs analyst job: "It's WGN, the Cubs. It's a big job. I wasn't looking. They called me. No offer made."

Mark Berman ‏@MarkBermanFox26
Deshaies been with Astros for 16 years. If the Cubs job is offered: "It would be very hard, but I don't want to get that far down the road."

Mark Berman ‏@MarkBermanFox26
More Deshaies:"If there's an offer & I have to make that decision, that's one of the things that I'll think long & hard & lose sleep over."

Mr. Happy · « **Reply #25 on:** November 18, 2012, 07:52:17 pm »

Quote from: OregonStrosFan on November 18, 2012, 06:16:55 pm

More from Berman via Twitter: (THIS LINK is to Berman's Twitter page, not these specific quotes):

Mark Berman ‏@MarkBermanFox26
Jim Deshaies on interviewing 4 Cubs analyst job: "It's WGN, the Cubs. It's a big job. I wasn't looking. They called me. No offer made."

Mark Berman ‏@MarkBermanFox26
Deshaies been with Astros for 16 years. If the Cubs job is offered: "It would be very hard, but I don't want to get that far down the road."

Mark Berman ‏@MarkBermanFox26
More Deshaies:"If there's an offer & I have to make that decision, that's one of the things that I'll think long & hard & lose sleep over."

Let's face it: JD is the best TV color man in baseball. It's not surprising that some team would come calling when the previous holder of that job dragged up. Let's just hope that the Astros realize what they have and up the ante to keep him.

Reuben · « **Reply #26 on:** November 18, 2012, 08:22:29 pm »

The Chronicle finally has something.
...

Quote

He said he has no time frame to make a decision and that it’s “a matter of working through the process, seeing if the Cubs make an offer and talking to the Astros and evaluating. I don’t want to get too far ahead of myself. There’s no guarantee the Cubs are going to make an offer, and there are other guys they are talking to.”

...
I don't like the way this is heading. At all. It sounds like the Astros were very blase about bringing him back, which is fucking idiotic.

juliogotay · « **Reply #27 on:** November 18, 2012, 08:43:49 pm »

The FTC would be just as idiotic not to offer him. He has a track record and his style would play very well in Chicago.

Savage · « **Reply #28 on:** November 18, 2012, 08:51:29 pm »

Quote from: juliogotay on November 18, 2012, 08:43:49 pm

The FTC would be just as idiotic not to offer him. He has a track record and his style would play very well in Chicago.

He actually may not be enough of a homer. They ran Steve Stone off when he was critical of some shenanigans the Cubs pulled.

Mr. Happy · « **Reply #29 on:** November 18, 2012, 09:04:26 pm »

Quote from: Savage on November 18, 2012, 08:51:29 pm

He actually may not be enough of a homer. They ran Steve Stone off when he was critical of some shenanigans the Cubs pulled.

But wasn't that under prior ownership?

Lefty · « **Reply #30 on:** November 18, 2012, 09:09:44 pm »

Quote from: Savage on November 18, 2012, 08:51:29 pm

He actually may not be enough of a homer. They ran Steve Stone off when he was critical of some shenanigans the Cubs pulled.

Does he drink heavily during games? If not, that can be fixed.

Savage · « **Reply #31 on:** November 18, 2012, 09:35:31 pm »

Quote from: Mr. Happy on November 18, 2012, 09:04:26 pm

But wasn't that under prior ownership?

It was. I spoke with the guy running Cubs for Tribune at the time - who is still part of team management and he described it as driven by the WGN guys. Believe the dynamic is WGN / CSN sets the broadcasters with team input. Tribune ownership still in flux (supposed to exit bankruptcy finally in a few weeks) but it's the same operating guys making the decisions. Either way, Chicago fans like their homer announcers (see Harrelson, Ken).

Limey · « **Reply #32 on:** November 19, 2012, 09:15:55 am »

Quote from: Mr. Happy on November 18, 2012, 07:52:17 pm

Let's face it: JD is the best TV color man in baseball. It's not surprising that some team would come calling when the previous holder of that job dragged up. Let's just hope that the Astros realize what they have and up the ante to keep him.

The Cubs job is higher profile, and thus will be a springboard for a national job. Just as soon as someone kills McCarver.

Mr. Happy · « **Reply #33 on:** November 19, 2012, 10:33:26 am »

Quote from: Limey on November 19, 2012, 09:15:55 am

The Cubs job is higher profile, and thus will be a springboard for a national job. Just as soon as someone kills McCarver.

JD with JoBu? That would be interesting.

moriartp · « **Reply #34 on:** November 19, 2012, 11:11:49 am »

I am hoping the intensity of the fans' response will be enough to compel the brass to work out a deal with JD. Perhaps I am just being naive.

Fredia · « **Reply #35 on:** November 19, 2012, 11:26:07 am »

ftcolorado rockies

Andyzipp · « **Reply #36 on:** November 19, 2012, 11:55:47 am »

Quote from: moriartp on November 19, 2012, 11:11:49 am

I am hoping the intensity of the fans' response will be enough to compel the brass to work out a deal with JD. Perhaps I am just being naive.

I don't think Postolos is not wanting to work out a deal with Deshaies. I think the national aspect of announcing for the Cubs, as well as the money are causing JD to take a look. As he should.

roadrunner · « **Reply #37 on:** November 19, 2012, 01:02:38 pm »

Quote from: Andyzipp on November 19, 2012, 11:55:47 am

I don't think Postolos is not wanting to work out a deal with Deshaies. I think the national aspect of announcing for the Cubs, as well as the money are causing JD to take a look. As he should.

Yeah. I just hope Crane/Postolos put up the $$ to answer whatever it is the Cubs offer.

Limey · « **Reply #38 on:** November 19, 2012, 01:19:10 pm »

From Lucas, via Footer's FB feed:

Quote from: Greg Lucas

All the folks tweeting and panicking about JD being courted by the Cubs are playing right into Chicago's hands--offering unofficial letters of recommendation to Chicago. Sportswriter Phil Rogers put it best, essentially saying, "If they like him so much in Houston he might be the right guy in Chicago." Rogers writes for the Chicago Tribune.

She added in reply:

Quote from: Alyson Footer

While that is true, Greg, it's just as important for the Astros to know how the fans feel. Public pressure will play a part in this as well, I believe. Fans have to make themselves heard now, not after the fact when it's too late.

Reuben · « **Reply #39 on:** November 19, 2012, 01:34:40 pm »

Wow. So I emailed the Astros via the "fan feedback" form on their website. Here's what I sent:

Quote

Please DO NOT let Jim Deshaies leave the Astros. I'm sure you've heard that he has interviewed with the Cubs. JD is probably second only to Vin Scully among current MLB broadcasters. Simply put, it would be extremely upsetting if he were not retained. Surely you must be aware how dearly he is loved by Astros fans. It would be a HUGE mistake to let him leave. The move to the AL is bad enough. Don't commit the unpardonable (and avoidable) sin of letting JD leave. Pay him whatever you have to, give him whatever freedoms you have to. Just bring him back

And today I got this response:

Quote

Thank you for write we will take you comment into consideration.

It's good to know the fans' feedback is going straight to someone who's obviously got a lot of credibility and influence there. As opposed to, say, an unpaid intern, or perhaps the 5-year-old son of the unpaid intern.

Reuben · « **Reply #40 on:** November 19, 2012, 01:38:42 pm »

Quote from: roadrunner on November 19, 2012, 01:02:38 pm

Yeah. I just hope Crane/Postolos put up the $$ to answer whatever it is the Cubs offer.

Exactly. How much are the best-paid broadcasters making a year? Half a million? Even if its 5 times that, they certainly can't claim that they can't afford it. You really want your organization to be first-class? Fucking pay him.

Andyzipp · « **Reply #41 on:** November 19, 2012, 01:40:42 pm »

Quote from: Reuben on November 19, 2012, 01:34:40 pm

Wow. So I emailed the Astros via the "fan feedback" form on their website. Here's what I sent:
And today I got this response:It's good to know the fans' feedback is going straight to someone who's obviously got a lot of credibility and influence there. As opposed to, say, an unpaid intern, or perhaps the 5-year-old son of the unpaid intern.

My 7-year old daughter is taking keyboarding. She said that perhaps, "their keyboard is broken, because that happens sometimes."

Mr. Happy · « **Reply #42 on:** November 19, 2012, 04:16:47 pm »

Quote from: Reuben on November 19, 2012, 01:34:40 pm

Wow. So I emailed the Astros via the "fan feedback" form on their website. Here's what I sent:
And today I got this response:It's good to know the fans' feedback is going straight to someone who's obviously got a lot of credibility and influence there. As opposed to, say, an unpaid intern, or perhaps the 5-year-old son of the unpaid intern.

I just e-mailed them too. I expect an equally illiterate response.

juliogotay · « **Reply #43 on:** November 19, 2012, 06:44:45 pm »

Quote from: Mr. Happy on November 19, 2012, 04:16:47 pm

I just e-mailed them too. I expect an equally illiterate response.

There is something incredibly dissatisfying about those canned bullshit responeses. Honestly, and this isn't directly solely at the the Astros, if that is the best they can do they shouldn't have a response mechanism. Those always make me more agitated than before I "got it off my chest".

Mr. Happy · « **Reply #44 on:** November 19, 2012, 09:14:38 pm »

Quote from: juliogotay on November 19, 2012, 06:44:45 pm

There is something incredibly dissatisfying about those canned bullshit responeses. Honestly, and this isn't directly solely at the the Astros, if that is the best they can do they shouldn't have a response mechanism. Those always make me more agitated than before I "got it off my chest".

+1

Col. Sphinx Drummond · « **Reply #45 on:** November 20, 2012, 07:48:19 am »

Quote from: juliogotay on November 19, 2012, 06:44:45 pm

There is something incredibly dissatisfying about those canned bullshit responeses. Honestly, and this isn't directly solely at the the Astros, if that is the best they can do they shouldn't have a response mechanism. Those always make me more agitated than before I "got it off my chest".

You're confusing the process. I find them affirming and assuring that any single opinion is none of their concern. That is their response.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #46 on:** November 20, 2012, 08:53:38 am »

Quote from: Sphinx Drummond on November 20, 2012, 07:48:19 am

You're confusing the process. I find them affirming and assuring that any single opinion is none of their concern. That is their response.

Personally, I'm glad they don't make any single opinion a top concern. I'm sure there are yahoos out there who want them to wear pink and purple and change their name to the "Muffins".

Limey · « **Reply #47 on:** November 20, 2012, 09:14:55 am »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on November 20, 2012, 08:53:38 am

Personally, I'm glad they don't make any single opinion a top concern. I'm sure there are yahoos out there who want them to wear pink and purple and change their name to the "Muffins".

I'm sure their inbox gets choked with pearls of wisdom from the same brain trust that posts in the Chronicle's comments sections.

Fredia · « **Reply #48 on:** November 20, 2012, 09:22:50 am »

the talk zone needs their own brain trust

Noe · « **Reply #49 on:** November 20, 2012, 09:23:46 am »

Quote from: Limey on November 20, 2012, 09:14:55 am

I'm sure their inbox gets choked with pearls of wisdom from the same brain trust that posts in the Chronicle's comments sections.

Or walk the concourse at Minute Maid still searching for Drayton McLane who has long since departed.

NeilT · « **Reply #50 on:** November 20, 2012, 10:08:10 am »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on November 20, 2012, 08:53:38 am

Personally, I'm glad they don't make any single opinion a top concern. I'm sure there are yahoos out there who want them to wear pink and purple and change their name to the "Muffins".

Who told you? And I resent being called a yahoo. Call me a google.

Bench · « **Reply #51 on:** November 20, 2012, 10:50:29 am »

Quote from: NeilT on November 20, 2012, 10:08:10 am

Who told you? And I resent being called a yahoo. Call me a google.

I thought it was Miss Lola Laloosh's idea!

Fredia · « **Reply #52 on:** November 20, 2012, 10:51:14 am »

if lance berkman came back he would have to be the muffin since the demise to the twinkie

NeilT · « **Reply #53 on:** November 20, 2012, 11:54:08 am »

Quote from: Bench on November 20, 2012, 10:50:29 am

I thought it was Miss Lola Laloosh's idea!

No, she wanted the Montrose StudMuffins, in leather and chains. Close though.

OregonStrosFan · « **Reply #54 on:** November 20, 2012, 12:06:49 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on November 20, 2012, 08:53:38 am

Personally, I'm glad they don't make any single opinion a top concern. I'm sure there are yahoos out there who want them to wear pink and purple and change their name to the "Muffins".

I agree with this for the most part. However, there are certain times/issues that are at least deserving of a specific and well thought out canned response. This would be one of times/issue IMO...

Limey · « **Reply #55 on:** November 20, 2012, 12:14:08 pm »

Quote from: OregonStrosFan on November 20, 2012, 12:06:49 pm

I agree with this for the most part. However, there are certain times/issues that are at least deserving of a specific and well thought out canned response. This would be one of times/issue IMO...

The Astros marketing dept have been typically horrific over the years. Here's another example.

Navin R Johnson · « **Reply #56 on:** November 20, 2012, 02:39:40 pm »

Another reply from the Astros

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i206/fe_sol_soul/hopeless.png

Gizzmonic · « **Reply #57 on:** November 20, 2012, 02:45:23 pm »

Quote from: Reuben on November 19, 2012, 01:34:40 pm

Wow. So I emailed the Astros via the "fan feedback" form on their website. Here's what I sent:
And today I got this response:It's good to know the fans' feedback is going straight to someone who's obviously got a lot of credibility and influence there. As opposed to, say, an unpaid intern, or perhaps the 5-year-old son of the unpaid intern.

Remember the fake FB updates? That brought to light the fact that MLB's entire internet presence is in the hands of some unpaid/low paid interns. I doubt that has changed, although it probably should!

Ron Brand · « **Reply #58 on:** November 20, 2012, 11:21:33 pm »

I also used the Fan Feedback page on Astros.com to send them a message about JD and I got the same illiterate reply. I did some hunting and some guessing and forwarded it on to George Postolos, who replied tonight:

Quote

Thank you Mike. This is very helpful to us as we work to improve every aspect of our organization. I will print your email, and discuss with our staff tomorrow as an opportunity to improve. Best, George

Reuben · « **Reply #59 on:** November 20, 2012, 11:27:33 pm »

Quote from: Ron Brand on November 20, 2012, 11:21:33 pm

I also used the Fan Feedback page on Astros.com to send them a message about JD and I got the same illiterate reply. I did some hunting and some guessing and forwarded it on to George Postolos, who replied tonight:

Well done, good sir! Hopefully during the course of the meeting they will also realize how bone-headed it would be if they let JD walk.

juliogotay · « **Reply #60 on:** November 21, 2012, 07:15:35 am »

Quote from: Reuben on November 20, 2012, 11:27:33 pm

Well done, good sir! Hopefully during the course of the meeting they will also realize how bone-headed it would be if they let JD walk.

In all fairness, JD has a say in this at this point. At least, if offered. He may deem it a career opportunity he can't pass up. That is my fear. I have felt, since this story broke, he's as good as gone. I think the Cubs will offer.

Reuben · « **Reply #61 on:** November 21, 2012, 07:52:14 am »

Quote from: juliogotay on November 21, 2012, 07:15:35 am

In all fairness, JD has a say in this at this point. At least, if offered. He may deem it a career opportunity he can't pass up. That is my fear. I have felt, since this story broke, he's as good as gone. I think the Cubs will offer.

You certainly may be right, and I don't mean to imply that JD is all about the $$$, but really, if the Astros offer to pay him as one of the very top broadcasters in baseball, would he still decline, and move his family far away from Houston, where he's lived for a long time? How much money do the top guys make in that line of work? I'm sure it is easily affordable for a club that's purged as much salary as the Astros have, with as much cash coming in directly from the TV deal as they will. Bottom line, if he leaves, it better come out that they offered him X dollars, but that he took less money to do the Cubs job.

Limey · « **Reply #62 on:** November 21, 2012, 09:12:21 am »

Quote from: Reuben on November 21, 2012, 07:52:14 am

You certainly may be right, and I don't mean to imply that JD is all about the $$$, but really, if the Astros offer to pay him as one of the very top broadcasters in baseball, would he still decline, and move his family far away from Houston, where he's lived for a long time? How much money do the top guys make in that line of work? I'm sure it is easily affordable for a club that's purged as much salary as the Astros have, with as much cash coming in directly from the TV deal as they will. Bottom line, if he leaves, it better come out that they offered him X dollars, but that he took less money to do the Cubs job.

Don't forget that Crane & Co. have completely turned over the organisation on and off the field. The only face JD recognises these days is when he looks in the bathroom mirror.

roadrunner · « **Reply #63 on:** November 21, 2012, 10:25:05 am »

Quote from: Reuben on November 21, 2012, 07:52:14 am

You certainly may be right, and I don't mean to imply that JD is all about the $$$, but really, if the Astros offer to pay him as one of the very top broadcasters in baseball, would he still decline, and move his family far away from Houston, where he's lived for a long time? How much money do the top guys make in that line of work? I'm sure it is easily affordable for a club that's purged as much salary as the Astros have, with as much cash coming in directly from the TV deal as they will. Bottom line, if he leaves, it better come out that they offered him X dollars, but that he took less money to do the Cubs job.

I think his youngest daughter is a senior in HS? If that's the case, it would just be him and his wife moving to Chicago to call day games on a platform that will give him the exposure he needs to move up to regional/network gigs.

It's easy to blame this on Crane and Postolos being "cheap" or "out of touch" or however you want to paint it, but at the end of the day even if the Astros offer more I could see JD taking the Chicago gig anyways. And I'd be happy for him. Of course I want JD to call the games I watch (assuming I get the network by baseball season), but the baseball broadcasting business is much different than the baseball business. What's best for his career isn't always about the $ he gets in the next 3 years.

Who knows, in the long run maybe JD takes over for McCarver. Then we wouldn't have to watch the playoffs on mute.

roadrunner · « **Reply #64 on:** November 21, 2012, 10:26:59 am »

Quote from: Limey on November 21, 2012, 09:12:21 am

Don't forget that Crane & Co. have completely turned over the organisation on and off the field. The only face JD recognises these days is when he looks in the bathroom mirror.

That too. And if Brownie retires his decision gets a little easier.

NeilT · « **Reply #65 on:** November 21, 2012, 10:29:19 am »

Can Do-Ray do television?

JimR · « **Reply #66 on:** November 21, 2012, 10:29:54 am »

Quote from: NeilT on November 21, 2012, 10:29:19 am

Can Do-Ray do television?

they be gone.

juliogotay · « **Reply #67 on:** November 21, 2012, 11:09:55 am »

Quote from: JimR on November 21, 2012, 10:29:54 am

they be gone.

And no. They can't do television. They talk too much for radio, I can't imagine their incessant, mindless chirping on television.

Noe · « **Reply #68 on:** November 21, 2012, 11:11:44 am »

I wonder what good ol' Jerry Trupiano is doing nowadays?

juliogotay · « **Reply #69 on:** November 21, 2012, 11:17:11 am »

Quote from: Noe in Austin on November 21, 2012, 11:11:44 am

I wonder what good ol' Jerry Trupiano is doing nowadays?

I think he'd be good doing PBP on radio. I hope he's on the list even though I don't get Astros radio in north Tx (except satellite).

Reuben · « **Reply #70 on:** November 21, 2012, 11:21:13 am »

Quote from: Noe in Austin on November 21, 2012, 11:11:44 am

I wonder what good ol' Jerry Trupiano is doing nowadays?

I'm a big Trupiano fan. Heard a lot of him when I lived in Massachusetts. I hope he gets the radio gig, although he did a fine job on the Astros game he called on TV late in the season (for MLB Network I think).

Noe · « **Reply #71 on:** November 21, 2012, 11:34:27 am »

Quote from: Reuben on November 21, 2012, 11:21:13 am

I'm a big Trupiano fan. Heard a lot of him when I lived in Massachusetts. I hope he gets the radio gig, although he did a fine job on the Astros game he called on TV late in the season (for MLB Network I think).

Count me in as a big fan of Troop as well. Hopefully something can happen along those lines. I mean, with all this retro going on, it would be a fit.

BudGirl · « **Reply #72 on:** November 21, 2012, 02:09:04 pm »

Quote from: JimR on November 21, 2012, 10:29:54 am

they be gone.

Reason I'm thankful this year #452.

Mr. Happy · « **Reply #73 on:** November 21, 2012, 02:24:17 pm »

Quote from: BudGirl on November 21, 2012, 02:09:04 pm

Reason I'm thankful this year #452.

+1 And I never got to listen to them. But Ron Brand's descriptions were vivid enough to cause me to revile them too.

Navin R Johnson · « **Reply #74 on:** November 21, 2012, 02:57:26 pm »

Quote from: roadrunner on November 21, 2012, 10:25:05 am

I think his youngest daughter is a senior in HS? If that's the case, it would just be him and his wife moving to Chicago to call day games on a platform that will give him the exposure he needs to move up to regional/network gigs.

His middle daughter goes to college in Illinois too and Chicago is his favorite road city . Brownie very well may end up calling home games only. Then add in the fact that basically all his coworkers he was friends with are now gone....

BudGirl · « **Reply #75 on:** November 21, 2012, 03:15:15 pm »

This isn't the first time there are new people in charge for the Astros. I wish JD would stay, but if an opportunity for bigger things presents itself he's an idiot for not taking it.

austro · « **Reply #76 on:** November 21, 2012, 03:30:00 pm »

Quote from: roadrunner on November 21, 2012, 10:25:05 am

Of course I want JD to call the games I watch (assuming I get the network by baseball season), ...

If you live in Central Texas, it's entirely possible that next year you'll see more Astros games on WGN than anywhere else.

EasTexAstro · « **Reply #77 on:** November 21, 2012, 03:33:58 pm »

OK, if the Astros are playing the Rangers, will the games be on FSN?

austro · « **Reply #78 on:** November 21, 2012, 04:22:47 pm »

Quote from: EasTexAstro on November 21, 2012, 03:33:58 pm

OK, if the Astros are playing the Rangers, will the games be on FSN?

Good point. I forgot that the Astros are moving out of the NL Central (yes, I'm getting old). I think I'll go put my head in the oven now.

chuck · « **Reply #79 on:** November 21, 2012, 05:27:24 pm »

Quote from: austro on November 21, 2012, 04:22:47 pm

Good point. I forgot that the Astros are moving out of the NL Central (yes, I'm getting old). I think I'll go put my head in the oven now.

I see that the reality is finally starting to set in.

Ty in Tampa · « **Reply #80 on:** November 24, 2012, 01:26:55 pm »

Quote from: Noe in Austin on November 21, 2012, 11:34:27 am

Count me in as a big fan of Troop as well. Hopefully something can happen along those lines. I mean, with all this retro going on, it would be a fit.

I think Jim Brockmire deserves another chance.

Navin R Johnson · « **Reply #81 on:** November 25, 2012, 10:26:50 am »

Heard last night that it is looking good on Brownie returning. He will likely work about ~100 games next year.

Fredia · « **Reply #82 on:** November 25, 2012, 11:57:00 am »

sounds better than thanksgiving turkey and burbon

juliogotay · « **Reply #83 on:** November 25, 2012, 02:39:08 pm »

Quote from: Navin R Johnson on November 25, 2012, 10:26:50 am

Heard last night that it is looking good on Brownie returning. He will likely work about ~100 games next year.

That's interesting. I guess cutting down on road-time was very important to him. I figuered he'd want to get to all of the jr. circuit cities and stadiums at least once through. So, a part-time PBP guy to be needed.

BUWebguy · « **Reply #84 on:** November 26, 2012, 01:45:38 pm »

Quote from: juliogotay on November 25, 2012, 02:39:08 pm

So, a part-time PBP guy to be needed.

With that guy being groomed to eventually replace him, right? Man, this feels familiar...

Bench · « **Reply #85 on:** November 26, 2012, 02:54:56 pm »

Hopefully JD knows not to follow the coyotes: Drawn By The Scent Of Death And Decay, Coyotes Prowl Wrigley Field.

Uncountable twolegs gather here every afternoon during the summer to yell in unison in some strange ritual, but it is deserted. It is deserted almost every autumn. The smell is the same: hopelessness, emotional decay.

juliogotay · « **Reply #86 on:** November 30, 2012, 07:09:19 am »

I don't think this has been posted here. http://blog.chron.com/ultimateastros/2012/11/18/say-it-aint-so-deshaies-departure-would-be-pr-fiasco-for-astros/

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #87 on:** November 30, 2012, 07:42:00 am »

Quote from: juliogotay on November 30, 2012, 07:09:19 am

I don't think this has been posted here. http://blog.chron.com/ultimateastros/2012/11/18/say-it-aint-so-deshaies-departure-would-be-pr-fiasco-for-astros/

Chip Bailey is usually a bit of a dimwit, but he's spot on in that article.

Waldo · « **Reply #88 on:** November 30, 2012, 09:14:14 am »

What if JD wants to leave? Is it automatically Crane's fault regardless of the intentions of both sides?

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #89 on:** November 30, 2012, 09:16:15 am »

Quote from: Waldo on November 30, 2012, 09:14:14 am

What if JD wants to leave? Is it automatically Crane's fault regardless of the intentions of both sides?

Yes. That's how whining works.

Ty in Tampa · « **Reply #90 on:** November 30, 2012, 09:28:44 am »

Quote from: Waldo on November 30, 2012, 09:14:14 am

What if JD wants to leave? Is it automatically Crane's fault regardless of the intentions of both sides?

He can't want to leave, so yes.

hostros7 · « **Reply #91 on:** November 30, 2012, 09:51:58 am »

Quote from: Ty in Tampa on November 30, 2012, 09:28:44 am

He can't want to leave, so yes.

How could you want to leave when there are NEW UNIFORMS?!?

roadrunner · « **Reply #92 on:** November 30, 2012, 12:31:34 pm »

Quote from: Waldo on November 30, 2012, 09:14:14 am

What if JD wants to leave? Is it automatically Crane's fault regardless of the intentions of both sides?

Crane should've signed JD to a Pujols-type contract as soon as he bought the team so we wouldn't have to even be discussing this. They traded everyone so they can afford to do it!!

I think that's the argument being made.

chuck · « **Reply #93 on:** November 30, 2012, 01:29:05 pm »

Quote from: roadrunner on November 30, 2012, 12:31:34 pm

Crane should've signed JD to a Pujols-type contract as soon as he bought the team so we wouldn't have to even be discussing this. They traded everyone so they can afford to do it!!

I think that's the argument being made.

I don't think anyone is arguing that at all. Among fans JD is more popular than any player with the possible exception of Altuve. People are surprised that the club does not seem to recognize this and respond accordingly.

I don't see what difference it makes though since hardly anyone's going to be able to watch the games next year anyway.

roadrunner · « **Reply #94 on:** November 30, 2012, 02:14:11 pm »

Quote from: chuck on November 30, 2012, 01:29:05 pm

I don't think anyone is arguing that at all. Among fans JD is more popular than any player with the possible exception of Altuve. People are surprised that the club does not seem to recognize this and respond accordingly.

I don't see what difference it makes though since hardly anyone's going to be able to watch the games next year anyway.

What makes you believe the club doesn't recognize JD's popularity?

chuck · « **Reply #95 on:** November 30, 2012, 02:18:56 pm »

Quote from: roadrunner on November 30, 2012, 02:14:11 pm

What makes you believe the club doesn't recognize JD's popularity?

RIF, cuello.

Col. Sphinx Drummond · « **Reply #96 on:** November 30, 2012, 09:07:50 pm »

Quote from: roadrunner on November 30, 2012, 02:14:11 pm

What makes you believe the club doesn't recognize JD's popularity?

There's no equivalent WAR for announcers.

hostros7 · « **Reply #97 on:** December 03, 2012, 02:15:34 pm »

Quote

DKnobler ‏@DKnobler

More broadcasting news: Jim Deshaies leaving Astros TV to replace Bob Brenly on Cubs TV (Brenly went to Arizona)

Navin R Johnson · « **Reply #98 on:** December 03, 2012, 02:19:44 pm »

well that really blows.

hostros7 · « **Reply #99 on:** December 03, 2012, 02:20:50 pm »

Quote from: Navin R Johnson on December 03, 2012, 02:19:44 pm

well that really blows.

Really gets you fired up to stay up late to watch those west coast games, doesn't it?

drew corleone · « **Reply #100 on:** December 03, 2012, 02:24:10 pm »

Fuck.

subnuclear · « **Reply #101 on:** December 03, 2012, 02:25:16 pm »

Quote from: hostros7 on December 03, 2012, 02:20:50 pm

Really gets you fired up to stay up late to watch those west coast games, doesn't it?

Up yours.

AtascAstro · « **Reply #102 on:** December 03, 2012, 02:34:25 pm »

I can't hold it against J.D., bigger gig, more money, closer to home. Just really sucks to be us right now.

hostros7 · « **Reply #103 on:** December 03, 2012, 02:36:58 pm »

If there was any doubt:

Quote

Alyson Footer ‏@alysonfooter

Reports are starting to stream in and they are accurate: Jim Deshaies has accepted job as color analyst for Chicago Cubs telecasts.

It's been an absolute pleasure to listen to JD every game. Wish him the best. His experience filling the massive void of suck for the last couple years as an Astros broadcaster will serve him well in his future role with the Cubs.

roadrunner · « **Reply #104 on:** December 03, 2012, 02:49:09 pm »

well, fuck me

Ebby Calvin · « **Reply #105 on:** December 03, 2012, 02:49:59 pm »

Dammit all to hell.

AtascAstro · « **Reply #106 on:** December 03, 2012, 02:54:08 pm »

Quote from: Ebby Calvin on December 03, 2012, 02:49:59 pm

Dammit all to hell.

I think that is pretty much exactly what just happened.

Arky Vaughan · « **Reply #107 on:** December 03, 2012, 03:02:22 pm »

The Astros didn't even offer him a contract, did they?

juliogotay · « **Reply #108 on:** December 03, 2012, 03:04:47 pm »

Fuck, shit, piss. I was sure this was coming but it's not any easier to stomach.

hostros7 · « **Reply #109 on:** December 03, 2012, 03:10:05 pm »

Quote from: Arky Vaughan on December 03, 2012, 03:02:22 pm

The Astros didn't even offer him a contract, did they?

Not really sure what this means, but fwiw:

Quote

Mark Berman ‏@MarkBermanFox26

More Postolos: "We value Jim highly & did everything in our power to retain him. While we r sorry to c him go, we respect the decision....

Limey · « **Reply #110 on:** December 03, 2012, 03:10:27 pm »

Quote from: Arky Vaughan on December 03, 2012, 03:02:22 pm

The Astros didn't even offer him a contract, did they?

The Chron report is non-enlightening on that element. Apparently, though, the Astros have binders full of broadcasters.

BUWebguy · « **Reply #111 on:** December 03, 2012, 03:10:43 pm »

I feel like I should be incredibly upset about this, but knowing that I likely won't be able to see Astros games in Waco any time soon anyways, I'm surprisingly calm.

astrosfan76 · « **Reply #112 on:** December 03, 2012, 03:14:26 pm »

Quote

Alyson Footer ‏@alysonfooter

Deshaies' Cubs deal is for four years. Astros counter-offered. Source said counter-offer was very fair for market value.

Mr. Happy · « **Reply #113 on:** December 03, 2012, 03:15:23 pm »

Well, fuck me.

moriartp · « **Reply #114 on:** December 03, 2012, 03:26:59 pm »

I'd offer my thoughts, but this link puts them far more eloquently than I ever could.

AtascAstro · « **Reply #115 on:** December 03, 2012, 03:30:10 pm »

Perhaps an unfair expectation of the club and a dangerous position to be in for sure, but what I wanted to hear was that the Astros offer was way beyond market-value and ultimately Jim chose significantly less money to be closer to home and greater national exposure.

chuck · « **Reply #116 on:** December 03, 2012, 03:41:05 pm »

Thank you for write we will take you comment into consideration.

Fredia · « **Reply #117 on:** December 03, 2012, 03:41:46 pm »

another bend over and assume the posiiton

pots · « **Reply #118 on:** December 03, 2012, 04:19:32 pm »

At some point you have to do something to keep the fans...right?

Bench · « **Reply #119 on:** December 03, 2012, 04:25:01 pm »

Quote from: pots on December 03, 2012, 04:19:32 pm

At some point you have to do something to keep the fans...right?

That's what the new uniforms are for.

Limey · « **Reply #120 on:** December 03, 2012, 04:34:12 pm »

Quote from: Bench on December 03, 2012, 04:25:01 pm

That's what the new uniforms are for.

...and the old name.

Otherwise, how the fuck would you know it's the Astros?

BudGirl · « **Reply #121 on:** December 03, 2012, 05:12:37 pm »

The man is GREAT at what he does. Why wouldn't he want a bigger audience that can help him move up in his career? I wish him well. I don't think he'll stay with the Cubs long, he'll get snatched up before long.

Reuben · « **Reply #122 on:** December 03, 2012, 05:28:09 pm »

Quote from: AtascAstro on December 03, 2012, 03:30:10 pm

Perhaps an unfair expectation of the club and a dangerous position to be in for sure, but what I wanted to hear was that the Astros offer was way beyond market-value and ultimately Jim chose significantly less money to be closer to home and greater national exposure.

My feelings exactly. All the comments and facts coming out make it sound like they tried, sort-of. Fuck them. How much money does a fucking broadcaster make? How many decades of Jim Deshaies would Crane's $70mil AL discount have paid for? The Astros blew it on this one.

pots · « **Reply #123 on:** December 03, 2012, 06:03:54 pm »

And now the only broadcast person they have left is the guy they tricked into doing it for free

Savage · « **Reply #124 on:** December 03, 2012, 07:07:12 pm »

Comcast Sports Chicago just retweeted some shit from @lenandjd into my feed. This is just... unnatural. No doubt it's a great career move for JD and my only solace is that maybe one day we can listen to JD instead of Buck / McCarver.

MusicMan · « **Reply #125 on:** December 03, 2012, 07:25:31 pm »

Quote from: Arky Vaughan on December 03, 2012, 03:02:22 pm

The Astros didn't even offer him a contract, did they?

Footer says they offered him a "very competitive" deal.

Navin R Johnson · « **Reply #126 on:** December 03, 2012, 07:33:11 pm »

Quote from: MusicMan on December 03, 2012, 07:25:31 pm

Footer says they offered him a "very competitive" deal.

FWIW She said, "Source said counter-offer was very fair for market value."

So if the Astros, knowing JD's contract was expiring had signed him months ago, would this have even been an issue?

MusicMan · « **Reply #127 on:** December 03, 2012, 08:04:51 pm »

Quote from: Navin R Johnson on December 03, 2012, 07:33:11 pm

FWIW She said, "Source said counter-offer was very fair for market value."

So if the Astros, knowing JD's contract was expiring had signed him months ago, would this have even been an issue?

Still could have been. Jumping to national exposure is hard to pass up, when the alternative is covering such a shitty team.

NeilT · « **Reply #128 on:** December 03, 2012, 09:14:14 pm »

aaahhh, fuck him. and to hell with best wishes.

juliogotay · « **Reply #129 on:** December 03, 2012, 09:18:27 pm »

Footer: http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20121203&content_id=40500590&vkey=news_hou&c_id=hou

OregonStrosFan · « **Reply #130 on:** December 03, 2012, 09:27:54 pm »

Quote from: juliogotay on December 03, 2012, 09:18:27 pm

Footer: http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20121203&content_id=40500590&vkey=news_hou&c_id=hou

The Astros expressed to Deshaies their hope he would remain in Houston, and they presented what has been categorized by sources as a fair market-value offer.

FY Jim (and George)

Arky Vaughan · « **Reply #131 on:** December 03, 2012, 11:38:33 pm »

Quote from: Navin R Johnson on December 03, 2012, 07:33:11 pm

FWIW She said, "Source said counter-offer was very fair for market value."

So if the Astros, knowing JD's contract was expiring had signed him months ago, would this have even been an issue?

That's my thought. Had they just re-upped him and Brownie to begin with, would he even have tested the market? Maybe so.

Mr. Happy · « **Reply #132 on:** December 04, 2012, 08:44:46 am »

Quote from: Arky Vaughan on December 03, 2012, 11:38:33 pm

That's my thought. Had they just re-upped him and Brownie to begin with, would he even have tested the market? Maybe so.

+1

AtascAstro · « **Reply #133 on:** December 04, 2012, 11:13:24 am »

If my objective was this -

Quote

and did everything in our power to retain him

I would hope that it wouldn't later be described like this -

Quote

they presented what has been categorized by sources as a fair market-value offer.

I'm sure they offered him a great deal for what the position was worth, the problem is that he was worth more than the position that he held.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #134 on:** December 04, 2012, 11:22:30 am »

Quote from: AtascAstro on December 04, 2012, 11:13:24 am

If my objective was this -

I would hope that it wouldn't later be described like this -

I'm sure they offered him a great deal for what the position was worth, the problem is that he was worth more than the position that he held.

I know it's fashionable to bash the new ownership at every turn, but I guess it never occurred to any of you that the Astros weren't kicking JD out the door, that the Cubs actually recruited him, not to mention that JD may actually *like* the idea of a higher profile/higher paying gig.

MusicMan · « **Reply #135 on:** December 04, 2012, 11:26:55 am »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on December 04, 2012, 11:22:30 am

I know it's fashionable to bash the new ownership at every turn, but I guess it never occurred to any of you that the Astros weren't kicking JD out the door, that the Cubs actually recruited him, not to mention that JD may actually *like* the idea of a higher profile/higher paying gig.

Agreed.

Waldo · « **Reply #136 on:** December 04, 2012, 11:42:03 am »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on December 04, 2012, 11:22:30 am

I know it's fashionable to bash the new ownership at every turn, but I guess it never occurred to any of you that the Astros weren't kicking JD out the door, that the Cubs actually recruited him, not to mention that JD may actually *like* the idea of a higher profile/higher paying gig.

Yep. He may have seen the writing on the wall re: CSN Houston's distribution issues and didn't want to take a step backward in exposure.

jbm · « **Reply #137 on:** December 04, 2012, 11:57:03 am »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on December 04, 2012, 11:22:30 am

I know it's fashionable to bash the new ownership at every turn, but I guess it never occurred to any of you that the Astros weren't kicking JD out the door, that the Cubs actually recruited him, not to mention that JD may actually *like* the idea of a higher profile/higher paying gig.

Maybe, but maybe the Astros just showed disinterest. Just another replacable commodity.

Astros County had a link from the Chicago Tribune writer who wrote:

Quote

The Astros never were really competitive with their offer, one source said, believing Deshaies' ties to the organization would keep him from leaving.

I realize there was another unnamed source who basically said the Astros offered a fair market offer, but I don't think things are entirely clear at this point. Probably never will be. Besides, what the hell is "fair market" anyway? If you value him, you lock him in early, and if you can't and later find yourself in a bidding war, you let him know how much you value him by continually outbidding the competition.

AtascAstro · « **Reply #138 on:** December 04, 2012, 11:59:35 am »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on December 04, 2012, 11:22:30 am

I know it's fashionable to bash the new ownership at every turn, but I guess it never occurred to any of you that the Astros weren't kicking JD out the door, that the Cubs actually recruited him, not to mention that JD may actually *like* the idea of a higher profile/higher paying gig.

I think they missed the mark. It is possible that no offer could have been good enough, which is what they want us to belive with "everything in our power." However, I don't think that is what they did. They made a "fair market value" offer, which conceded that they were willing to pay a certain amount for someone to broadcast Astros baseball and no more and that some combination of plus factors in the Chicago job exceeded the value of that offer to JD. Business.

But if everybody here can recognize that the Chicago job had certain non-financial advantages, then "everything in our power" would certainly have to exceed fair market value to have any hope at success. Call it what it is.

It is the Astros that chose to roll with 1-year contracts for the broadcast crew. Brown's comments indicate that it wasn't the talent that was hesitant to commit to a longer term. I believe it is absolutely fair to criticize the indecisiveness/presumptuousness that allowed this to happen in the first place. That is my major gripe. I would have liked them to over-pay for JD when the cubs were in play, and I think that in hindsight they'll wish they had. I can understand the business decision of that moment while disagreeing with its premise. I will not ignore the negligence that led us to that.

Limey · « **Reply #139 on:** December 04, 2012, 12:08:48 pm »

Quote from: jbm on December 04, 2012, 11:57:03 am

I realize there was another unnamed source who basically said the Astros offered a fair market offer, but I don't think things are entirely clear at this point. Probably never will be. Besides, what the hell is "fair market" anyway? If you value him, you lock him in early, and if you can't and later find yourself in a bidding war, you let him know how much you value him by continually outbidding the competition.

"Fair market" is not incompatible with "not competitive". It could mean that the Cubs went high to guarantee their man. At least they can be sure that JD is a free agent who they can over-pay for and be comfortable that he won't be a bust. That's a rarity for them.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #140 on:** December 04, 2012, 12:12:47 pm »

Quote from: jbm on December 04, 2012, 11:57:03 am

If you value him, you lock him in early, and if you can't and later find yourself in a bidding war, you let him know how much you value him by continually outbidding the competition.

Lock him in? He's not a player signing a long-term contract. Has your employer "locked you in" so that you can't take a better job if one is offered to you?

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #141 on:** December 04, 2012, 12:14:59 pm »

Quote from: AtascAstro on December 04, 2012, 11:59:35 am

I believe it is absolutely fair to criticize the indecisiveness/presumptuousness that allowed this to happen in the first place. That is my major gripe.

Except that you have no fucking clue whether this is the case or not. Not to mention that you still completely fail to recognize that JD had a say in this as well.

Navin R Johnson · « **Reply #142 on:** December 04, 2012, 12:18:58 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on December 04, 2012, 12:12:47 pm

Lock him in? He's not a player signing a long-term contract. Has your employer "locked you in" so that you can't take a better job if one is offered to you?

I am curious about that part. The Cubs signed JD to a 4 year deal. Does that mean that if Fox came calling he is bound by his contract to stay with Chicago? I assume their is some sort of out, I wonder how significant it is.

If the Astros had signed JD to a 4 year contract, say 6 months ago, would he still have left for Chicago?

pots · « **Reply #143 on:** December 04, 2012, 12:22:44 pm »

Quote from: Navin R Johnson on December 04, 2012, 12:18:58 pm

I am curious about that part. The Cubs signed JD to a 4 year deal. Does that mean that if Fox came calling he is bound by his contract to stay with Chicago? I assume their is some sort of out, I wonder how significant it is.

If the Astros had signed JD to a 4 year contract, say 6 months ago, would he still have left for Chicago?

I would assume it depends on the terms of the contract.

jbm · « **Reply #144 on:** December 04, 2012, 12:28:35 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on December 04, 2012, 12:14:59 pm

Except that you have no fucking clue whether this is the case or not. Not to mention that you still completely fail to recognize that JD had a say in this as well.

I have seen no reporting indicating that the Astros were decisive in retaining JD. If they were, he would have had to break a long-term contract to go to FTC.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #145 on:** December 04, 2012, 12:50:46 pm »

Quote from: jbm on December 04, 2012, 12:28:35 pm

I have seen no reporting indicating that the Astros were decisive in retaining JD. If they were, he would have had to break a long-term contract to go to FTC.

Exactly. You've seen nothing.

chuck · « **Reply #146 on:** December 04, 2012, 12:57:30 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on December 04, 2012, 12:50:46 pm

Exactly. You've seen nothing.

Because there was nothing.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #147 on:** December 04, 2012, 12:58:19 pm »

Quote from: chuck on December 04, 2012, 12:57:30 pm

Because there was nothing.

So all this speculation and complaining is just that.

Bench · « **Reply #148 on:** December 04, 2012, 01:09:28 pm »

Quote from: Navin R Johnson on December 04, 2012, 12:18:58 pm

I am curious about that part. The Cubs signed JD to a 4 year deal. Does that mean that if Fox came calling he is bound by his contract to stay with Chicago? I assume their is some sort of out, I wonder how significant it is.

If the Astros had signed JD to a 4 year contract, say 6 months ago, would he still have left for Chicago?

Footer notes that "[t]he Astros have always operated on one-year deals re: broadcasters. It is a huge risk b/c that makes these guys free agents every year."

BudGirl · « **Reply #149 on:** December 04, 2012, 01:09:54 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on December 04, 2012, 11:22:30 am

I know it's fashionable to bash the new ownership at every turn, but I guess it never occurred to any of you that the Astros weren't kicking JD out the door, that the Cubs actually recruited him, not to mention that JD may actually *like* the idea of a higher profile/higher paying gig.

I agreed with this yesterday.

Bench · « **Reply #150 on:** December 04, 2012, 01:10:26 pm »

Quote from: jbm on December 04, 2012, 12:28:35 pm

I have seen no reporting indicating that the Astros were decisive in retaining JD. If they were, he would have had to break a long-term contract to go to FTC.

Footer: Friends, regarding Jim Deshaies going to Cubs -- the Astros did make a fair counter-offer to him, mostly in terms of length of contract....The report out of Chicago that the offer was not competitive is not accurate. JD made a sound career decision that is totally justifiable.

BudGirl · « **Reply #151 on:** December 04, 2012, 01:12:20 pm »

Quote from: Navin R Johnson on December 04, 2012, 12:18:58 pm

I am curious about that part. The Cubs signed JD to a 4 year deal. Does that mean that if Fox came calling he is bound by his contract to stay with Chicago? I assume their is some sort of out, I wonder how significant it is.

If the Astros had signed JD to a 4 year contract, say 6 months ago, would he still have left for Chicago?

I thought all contracts were made to be broken.

AtascAstro · « **Reply #152 on:** December 04, 2012, 01:47:30 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on December 04, 2012, 12:14:59 pm

Except that you have no fucking clue whether this is the case or not. Not to mention that you still completely fail to recognize that JD had a say in this as well.

Stop being so dramatic. Everybody here has acknowledged that the Cubs gig had quantifiable advantages. Nobody blames JD for taking the job. Footer and/or Brown mentioned the Astros preference for 1 year contracts. It isn't absurd to think that he would have signed a longer deal 6 months ago. They took a business risk and got burned.

Furthermore it is also clear that Houston didn't even match Chicago's offer financially (only length), so clearly they didn't exactly make it much of a choice for him. The only way that you could be certain that he was leaving no matter what is if the Astros had made a better offer and he declined or if he comes out and says it himself. The first didn't happen and the second probably won't, so stop presuming that your "clue" is any closer to truth than anyone else's.

Management decided that the market value for JD exceeded what they beleived he contribution to the organization was worth. Most of us seem to believe that their valuation was wrong.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #153 on:** December 04, 2012, 02:08:00 pm »

Quote from: AtascAstro on December 04, 2012, 01:47:30 pm

Furthermore it is also clear that Houston didn't even match Chicago's offer financially (only length), so clearly they didn't exactly make it much of a choice for him.

Clear to whom? The voices in your head? You know absolutely nothing about the circumstances as to why JD took the job, yet you're pillorying the Astros. You're just whining. Plain. And. Simple.

Bench · « **Reply #154 on:** December 04, 2012, 02:13:15 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on December 04, 2012, 02:08:00 pm

Clear to whom? The voices in your head? You know absolutely nothing about the circumstances as to why JD took the job, yet you're pillorying the Astros. You're just whining. Plain. And. Simple.

Footer: "the Astros did make a fair counter-offer to him, mostly in terms of length of contract"

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #155 on:** December 04, 2012, 02:16:09 pm »

Quote from: Bench on December 04, 2012, 02:13:15 pm

Footer: "the Astros did make a fair counter-offer to him, mostly in terms of length of contract"

So from that, it's clear to you that the Astros gave JD no choice but to leave?

Bench · « **Reply #156 on:** December 04, 2012, 02:18:54 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on December 04, 2012, 02:16:09 pm

So from that, it's clear to you that the Astros gave JD no choice but to leave?

To me? No.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #157 on:** December 04, 2012, 02:22:10 pm »

Quote from: Bench on December 04, 2012, 02:18:54 pm

To me? No.

See...I like the voices in *your* head.

OregonStrosFan · « **Reply #158 on:** December 04, 2012, 02:30:26 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on December 04, 2012, 11:22:30 am

I know it's fashionable to bash the new ownership at every turn, but I guess it never occurred to any of you that the Astros weren't kicking JD out the door, that the Cubs actually recruited him, not to mention that JD may actually *like* the idea of a higher profile/higher paying gig.

I don't fault JD for going elsewhere (and agree that JD may actually *like* the idea of a higher profile/higher paying gig). I do fault the Astros for ever letting it get to that point however.

In any event, my disillusionment with (the non-baseball operations portion of) the organization is not a result of their failure to retain JD. That event may, however, end up as the determining (or defining) event regarding whether or not I chose to continue supporting the Astros franchise. And in complete honesty, whether I will choose to support Jim Crane's American League baseball franchise is in doubt...

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #159 on:** December 04, 2012, 02:32:55 pm »

Quote from: OregonStrosFan on December 04, 2012, 02:30:26 pm

I don't fault JD for going elsewhere (and agree that JD may actually *like* the idea of a higher profile/higher paying gig). I do fault the Astros for ever letting it get to that point however.

Let him want a better job? How did they get that much power over him?

Bench · « **Reply #160 on:** December 04, 2012, 02:42:03 pm »

Here's what JD has to say:

"This isn't a disgruntled guy leaving because of all the changes," [Deshaies] said. "This is an opportunity that came along. The Astros made me an offer that I would consider fair in this market, but it's a different market. They made a strong commitment in terms of years."

The article also notes the added benefit that JD has a daughter attending the University of Illinois. Maybe she plans on doing summer school at a Chicago satellite campus? I don't know; that seems to sound more relevant than it actually is.

AtascAstro · « **Reply #161 on:** December 04, 2012, 02:48:43 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on December 04, 2012, 02:32:55 pm

Let him want a better job? How did they get that much power over him?

Yet strangely, the Cubs offered more money. I wonder why? Is it your opinion that he would have taken the Cubs job for half the salary and contract length the Astros offered?

AtascAstro · « **Reply #162 on:** December 04, 2012, 02:54:17 pm »

From the same article.

Quote

but most likely because the Cubs offered more money.

Should have interviewed Hudson first.

Bench · « **Reply #163 on:** December 04, 2012, 03:10:11 pm »

Quote from: AtascAstro on December 04, 2012, 02:54:17 pm

From the same article.

That's just Balke's cynicism showing through, not that it isn't true.

Quote from: AtascAstro on December 04, 2012, 02:48:43 pm

Yet strangely, the Cubs offered more money. I wonder why?

JD: "But it's a different market." Bigger stage, bigger contract.

subnuclear · « **Reply #164 on:** December 04, 2012, 03:23:15 pm »

The better way to judge the front office will be who they hire to replace him and DoRay. JD was great, but there are other good people out there.

Limey · « **Reply #165 on:** December 04, 2012, 03:42:13 pm »

Quote from: subnuclear on December 04, 2012, 03:23:15 pm

The better way to judge the front office will be who they hire to replace him and DoRay. JD was great, but there are other good people out there.

They won't be able to recruit anyone known to be good here: a last place team with a tiny audience for their broadcast. They may get lucky and hire someone good on the way up, a bit like how they are recruiting the on-field staff.

Navin R Johnson · « **Reply #166 on:** December 04, 2012, 03:49:37 pm »

I vote for Bill Spiers.

Limey · « **Reply #167 on:** December 04, 2012, 03:56:17 pm »

Quote from: Navin R Johnson on December 04, 2012, 03:49:37 pm

I vote for Bill Spiers.

Morgan Ensberg.

Bench · « **Reply #168 on:** December 04, 2012, 04:02:12 pm »

Quote from: Limey on December 04, 2012, 03:56:17 pm

Morgan Ensberg.

I would be fine with that.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #169 on:** December 04, 2012, 04:42:55 pm »

Quote from: AtascAstro on December 04, 2012, 02:48:43 pm

Yet strangely, the Cubs offered more money. I wonder why? Is it your opinion that he would have taken the Cubs job for half the salary and contract length the Astros offered?

No. It's my opinion that the Cubs are a larger market than the Astros and offered him a better deal. And that the combination of a step up pay and exposure possibly played into his decision to leave.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #170 on:** December 04, 2012, 04:44:32 pm »

Quote from: AtascAstro on December 04, 2012, 02:54:17 pm

From the same article.

Should have interviewed Hudson first.

According to you, he would have gone to the Cubs for minimum wage because the Astros shoved him out the door

NeilT · « **Reply #171 on:** December 04, 2012, 04:52:24 pm »

Alkie. And HH.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #172 on:** December 04, 2012, 04:55:39 pm »

Quote from: NeilT on December 04, 2012, 04:52:24 pm

Alkie. And HH.

Now yer chunkin' it in there!

OregonStrosFan · « **Reply #173 on:** December 04, 2012, 05:04:11 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on December 04, 2012, 02:32:55 pm

Let him want a better job? How did they get that much power over him?

I apologize of my lack of eloquence (or clarity). I did not mean to suggest that "the Astros had mystical mind altering powers over JD" (or the "power" to "make him" do anything for that matter). The point (my opinion) I attempted to make, however in-artfully or inarticulately stated, was that JD should have been locked-up contractually well before the Cubs offer was even a pipe-dream. And for whatever reason, be it willfully or 'dicksteppingly,' the Astros failed to do so.*

[*I realize that I am not privy to 'ultimate facts' on which to base this opinion. I am comfortable, however, in the knowledge that I have weighed sufficient circumstantial / pattern and practice 'evidence' to believe this opinion to be valid.]

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #174 on:** December 04, 2012, 05:26:32 pm »

Quote from: OregonStrosFan on December 04, 2012, 05:04:11 pm

I apologize of my lack of eloquence (or clarity). I did not mean to suggest that "the Astros had mystical mind altering powers over JD" (or the "power" to "make him" do anything for that matter). The point (my opinion) I attempted to make, however in-artfully or inarticulately stated, was that JD should have been locked-up contractually well before the Cubs offer was even a pipe-dream. And for whatever reason, be it willfully or 'dicksteppingly,' the Astros failed to do so.*

[*I realize that I am not privy to 'ultimate facts' on which to base this opinion. I am comfortable, however, in the knowledge that I have weighed sufficient circumstantial / pattern and practice 'evidence' to believe this opinion to be valid.]

So one should never be able to leave the employ of the Astros? Seriously...what's wrong with "JD's outstanding skill at his job earned him a promotion"? Why does it have to be that the Astros somehow fucked up?

Reuben · « **Reply #175 on:** December 04, 2012, 05:55:02 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on December 04, 2012, 05:26:32 pm

So one should never be able to leave the employ of the Astros? Seriously...what's wrong with "JD's outstanding skill at his job earned him a promotion"? Why does it have to be that the Astros somehow fucked up?

Deshaies was under contract until February, and thus the Cubs had to ask the Astros for permission to interview him. It is certainly conceivable, is it not, that if his contract ran through February 2017, they wouldn't have bothered?

I think the basic viewpoint being expressed by some here (myself included) which you seem to so vehemently disagree with, is this: the Astros should be bending over backwards to retain the fans that they have right now. The fans clearly love JD and clearly did not want to see him leave. Therefore, they should have gone all-out to attempt to keep him, either by signing him to a long-term contract earlier (as Footer notes, their practice of giving out 1-year contracts is risky), or by making an overwhelming counter-offer to what the Cubs offered him.

Would that have guaranteed JD accepted it? No, of course not. It is certainly plausible that they could have offered twice the salary the Cubs did, and he still would have gone to the Cubs. The point is that, from EVERY report out there, they made a "fair" counter-offer. Not an "extremely generous" counter-offer, which, to me, is what they owed the fans, and what would have been smart from a business standpoint.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #176 on:** December 04, 2012, 07:42:13 pm »

Quote from: Reuben on December 04, 2012, 05:55:02 pm

I think the basic viewpoint being expressed by some here (myself included) which you seem to so vehemently disagree with, is this: the Astros should be bending over backwards to retain the fans that they have right now.

The basic viewpoint from most of you is: I didn't get what I want; therefore, the only explanation is the Astros are trying to screw me. It's ridiculous. Even after all the reports, the comments from JD himself, you're so blinded by rage that you can't even accept the possibility that Deshaies simply took a career promotion.

Reuben · « **Reply #177 on:** December 04, 2012, 08:13:49 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on December 04, 2012, 07:42:13 pm

The basic viewpoint from most of you is: I didn't get what I want; therefore, the only explanation is the Astros are trying to screw me. It's ridiculous. Even after all the reports, the comments from JD himself, you're so blinded by rage that you can't even accept the possibility that Deshaies simply took a career promotion.

Boy, you really love to jump on people griping about things on the internet (imagine that!) and brand them as selfish, self-absorbed, rage-engulfed crybabies, don't you? As opposed to people who simply react to something differently than you did.

Why don't you bother responding to the specific points I made above? Or are you not actually interested in having a real discussion about this?

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #178 on:** December 04, 2012, 08:39:04 pm »

Quote from: Reuben on December 04, 2012, 08:13:49 pm

Boy, you really love to jump on people griping about things on the internet (imagine that!) and brand them as selfish, self-absorbed, rage-engulfed crybabies, don't you? As opposed to people who simply react to something differently than you did.

Why don't you bother responding to the specific points I made above? Or are you not actually interested in having a real discussion about this?

You haven't made any points. You've complained based entirely on speculation and preconceived bitterness.

roadrunner · « **Reply #179 on:** December 04, 2012, 08:50:51 pm »

Nobody cares, but I'm in the middle of each side. I'm not going to blame Cranestolos because for all I know they wanted to keep him and tried, but it does burn that he is leaving and I wish they would have at least communicated their efforts to keep him better.

I wish the best for JD and hope we get an entertaining replacement.

AtascAstro · « **Reply #180 on:** December 04, 2012, 09:06:05 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on December 04, 2012, 08:39:04 pm

You haven't made any points. You've complained based entirely on speculation and preconceived bitterness.

Yeah, keep it straight, this conversation has nothing to do with Gary Kubiak. There is not a single thing that the Astros could have done differently to change this outcome. JD would have taken this job for half the pay and a club option to can him any day. Even if he had already signed an extension with the Astros last year, he would have walked away from it. It is simply that good of a job.

AtascAstro · « **Reply #181 on:** December 04, 2012, 09:21:19 pm »

Quote

The Astros made me an offer that I would consider fair in this market, but it's a different market.

Damning with faint praise. I'm sorry, but this is the kind of verbiage that you use when you don't want to burn bridges. I think it clearly implies that the Astros have a set valuation of that position based on the market and they weren't going to pay anybody more than what they believe that to be. As I've said before, JD's marketable value exceeded the value of the position he was in and the club simply decided that is was not going to overpay.

It is a defensible position from a business standpoint, but baseball isn't just business. They freely trade in the emotional attachment of fans to "their" team and therefore should not be at all surprised when the same fans form an irrational attachment to the personality that narrates the majority of that experience.

Reuben · « **Reply #182 on:** December 04, 2012, 09:44:28 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on December 04, 2012, 08:39:04 pm

You haven't made any points. You've complained based entirely on speculation and preconceived bitterness.

I think you've got preconceived bitterness about my preconceived bitterness.

moriartp · « **Reply #183 on:** December 04, 2012, 09:47:14 pm »

Quote from: Reuben on December 04, 2012, 09:44:28 pm

I think you've got preconceived bitterness about my preconceived bitterness.

I think they make a cream for that.

OregonStrosFan · « **Reply #184 on:** December 05, 2012, 12:59:29 am »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on December 04, 2012, 07:42:13 pm

The basic viewpoint from most of you is: I didn't get what I want; therefore, the only explanation is the Astros are trying to screw me. It's ridiculous. Even after all the reports, the comments from JD himself, you're so blinded by rage that you can't even accept the possibility that Deshaies simply took a career promotion.

Perhaps you should consider a transrectal lobotomy and then re-read his (and my) comments. Based on your responses in this thread, its safe to wager that you would greatly benefit from such a procedure...

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #185 on:** December 05, 2012, 06:25:54 am »

Quote from: OregonStrosFan on December 05, 2012, 12:59:29 am

Perhaps you should consider a transrectal lobotomy and then re-read his (and my) comments. Based on your responses in this thread, its safe to wager that you would greatly benefit from such a procedure...

Right. Because they really *are* out to get you.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #186 on:** December 05, 2012, 06:37:58 am »

Quote from: Reuben on December 04, 2012, 09:44:28 pm

I think you've got preconceived bitterness about my preconceived bitterness.

I can't help it. You guys get me all worked up.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #187 on:** December 05, 2012, 06:40:30 am »

Quote from: AtascAstro on December 04, 2012, 09:06:05 pm

Yeah, keep it straight, this conversation has nothing to do with Gary Kubiak. There is not a single thing that the Astros could have done differently to change this outcome. JD would have taken this job for half the pay and a club option to can him any day. Even if he had already signed an extension with the Astros last year, he would have walked away from it. It is simply that good of a job.

Speaking of someone who's yet to make a logical point in this thread...

NeilT · « **Reply #188 on:** December 05, 2012, 07:34:24 am »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on December 05, 2012, 06:37:58 am

I can't help it. You guys get me all worked up.

Too much information.

Mr. Happy · « **Reply #189 on:** December 05, 2012, 08:19:00 am »

Quote from: NeilT on December 05, 2012, 07:34:24 am

Too much information.

+1

Bench · « **Reply #190 on:** December 05, 2012, 09:55:05 am »

Quote from: NeilT on December 05, 2012, 07:34:24 am

Too much information.

He will get off like he's never gotten off before.

/alwayssunnied

Navin R Johnson · « **Reply #191 on:** December 05, 2012, 10:04:16 am »

Seeing as Deshaies "left for the $$money$$" I wonder if our dumbass fans will boo JD when he comes back to MMP with the Cubs.

ValpoCory · « **Reply #192 on:** December 05, 2012, 10:10:28 am »

I remember one Astros-Cubs game in Wrigley last year that wasn't on Astros TV. It was on WGN though, and for an inning or two, JD stood between Len and Brenly and added color to their broadcast. It was of course very natural and entertaining. It saddens me to think how that was an indication of what was to come.

Mr. Happy · « **Reply #193 on:** December 05, 2012, 12:38:58 pm »

Quote from: ValpoCory on December 05, 2012, 10:10:28 am

I remember one Astros-Cubs game in Wrigley last year that wasn't on Astros TV. It was on WGN though, and for an inning or two, JD stood between Len and Brenly and added color to their broadcast. It was of course very natural and entertaining. It saddens me to think how that was an indication of what was to come.

I watched that game too. Deshaies has a real talent for the color analyst spot.