Myers to the White Sox

[moriartp]

Rosenthal: Source: #WhiteSox acquire Brett Myers from #Astros.

[Fredia]

whoa they got someone to take him..i imagine the tension is thick enough to cut with a knife

[Ron Brand]

The wifebeater tweets are *hi-LAR-i-ous*!!!

[moriartp]

McTaggart confirms, but still no word on the return.

[roadrunner]

I think 110 losses is still achievable this year.

[Ron Brand]

I like the immediacy of Twitter, but it also reinforces the fact that the world is so full of morons with keypads and egos.

[OregonStrosFan]

I like the immediacy of Twitter, but it also reinforces the fact that the world is so full of morons with keypads and egos.

Alas, you've been reading my tweets I see... Good work!!!

BTW, per Levine

@zacharylevine
Astros get White Sox RHP Matt Heidenreich, LHP Blair Walters and a player to be named later in Myers deal

[Uncle Charlie]

FWIW this makes room for Keuch today.

[OregonStrosFan]

Sickels on Walters from his January Chicago White Sox Top 20 Prospects for 2012 (LINK)

21) Blair Walters, LHP, Grade C: 11th round pick from University of Hawaii relieved in college but moved to rotation in Pioneer League, showing 90+ fastball and better-than-expected slider. Like Snodgress, he could rank much higher next year once we get some full-season data.

[Mr. Happy]

Oh well, OSF caught Levine's tweet on the White Sox return slightly before me. Apparently, one of the guys, Walters, did well in low A but not so good in high A.

[Ron Brand]

Heidenreich was a 4th rounder, he's 21 and struggling in high A. 6'5", 185 righthander.

Walters was an 11th rounder, he's 22 and getting lit the fuck up in high A.

[Mr. Happy]

Heidenreich was a 4th rounder, he's 21 and struggling in high A. 6'5", 185 righthander.

Walters was an 11th rounder, he's 22 and getting lit the fuck up in high A.

I wonder how much salary the Astros had to eat. Since the haul doesn't look impressive, maybe the White Sox took on more salary.

[Ron Brand]

Walters their #21 guy in a very weak farm system.

[OregonStrosFan]

FutureSox reports on Heidrenreich: LINK

[Uncle Charlie]

Alas, you've been reading my tweets I see... Good work!!!

BTW, per Levine

@zacharylevine
Astros get White Sox RHP Matt Heidenreich, LHP Blair Walters and a player to be named later in Myers deal

So either they are sending very little money or the PTBNL is a reasonable prospect....Erik Johnson or Keenyn Walker?

[OregonStrosFan]

A tweet from Steve Campbell (neither here nor there but just misc. comment - remember, he left the writing gig and is on to other endeavors):

Steve Campbell ‏@ReformedWriter
Don't know anything about the players received in return for Brett Myers, but the Astros clubhouse just became a lot less cancerous.

[moriartp]

A tweet from Steve Campbell (neither here nor there but just misc. comment - remember, he left the writing gig and is on to other endeavors):

Steve Campbell ‏@ReformedWriter
Don't know anything about the players received in return for Brett Myers, but the Astros clubhouse just became a lot less cancerous.

Wasn't there something of a twitter spat between those two?

[OregonStrosFan]

Another neither here nor there, but...

Sean Pendergast ‏@SeanCablinasian
Good thing they waited till Carlos left -- RT @brianmctaggart Astros have claimed 25-year-old RHP Mark Hamburger off waivers from the Padres

[OregonStrosFan]

Wasn't there something of a twitter spat between those two?

No clue, but not the first time or person I've seen linking Myers to attitude issues in the clubhouse...

[OregonStrosFan]

So either they are sending very little money or the PTBNL is a reasonable prospect....Erik Johnson or Keenyn Walker?

Farmstros has been all over these PTBNLs...  I'll make sure and post the info when I see it.

[OregonStrosFan]

So either they are sending very little money or the PTBNL is a reasonable prospect....Erik Johnson or Keenyn Walker?

Per Heyman tweet:

Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS
#chisox only responsible for $1M of myers' deal this year. also received $ toward '13 salary or buyout.

[moriartp]

So either they are sending very little money or the PTBNL is a reasonable prospect....Erik Johnson or Keenyn Walker?

Seems like a pretty weak return if the PTBNL isn't someone decent, but this could just be a straight salary dump to enable them to eat more of Wandy's contract to facilitate a trade.

Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS
#chisox only responsible for $1M of myers' deal this year. also received $ toward '13 salary or buyout.

Okay, just hoping it's a good PTBNL now.

[OregonStrosFan]

Seems like a pretty weak return if the PTBNL isn't someone decent, but this could just be a straight salary dump to enable them to eat more of Wandy's contract to facilitate a trade.

If Heyman is correct (yes, I know what I just said...), doesn't look like much of a salary dump...

[OregonStrosFan]

Farmstros (via Twitter): 

Mike Tauser ‏@farmstros
Only three of the White Sox 2011 draft picks signed LESS than one year ago (25th, 30th, and 33rd) #PTBNL  http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/team/draft.jsp?c_id=cws&year=2011

That would be:

RD 25 - Chris Devenski (RHP), R / R,   6' 3", 195, 11/13/1990
RD 30 - Brandon Parrent (LHP), L / L, 6' 3", 215, 07/14/1990
RD 33 - Bryce Mosier (C) R / R, 6' 2", 200, 05/21/1993

[Jacksonian]

PTBNL isn't always about a recent signee.  It could have to do with Myers performance the rest of the way.

[pots]

According to this:  http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120721&content_id=35308988&vkey=news_hou&c_id=hou

Heidenreich... He will be assigned to Double-A Corpus Christi.

Walters...He will be assigned to Class A Lancaster.

So Lancaster got a new starter and Corpus got 2 starters in the last 2 days.  Lot more moves in the minors is needed.  Not to mention Alaniz just came off the DL (for Lancaster)

[Navin R Johnson]

A tweet from Steve Campbell (neither here nor there but just misc. comment - remember, he left the writing gig and is on to other endeavors):

Steve Campbell ‏@ReformedWriter
Don't know anything about the players received in return for Brett Myers, but the Astros clubhouse just became a lot less cancerous.

From what I have heard.... Myers was an absolute ass, he punched out Jamie Quirk, and also got in a fight with Bud and ended up punching him in the face.  How Myers wasn't run out of town after the Quirk incident is beyond me, but I guess they were to worried about his trade value. 

That was all last season, this season he seemed to mature some and really took a liking to the BP roll.  Still, glad to have that turd out of here.

[Reuben]

From what I have heard.... Myers was an absolute ass, he punched out Jamie Quirk, and also got in a fight with Bud and ended up punching him in the face.  How Myers wasn't run out of town after the Quirk incident is beyond me, but I guess they were to worried about his trade value. 

That was all last season, this season he seemed to mature some and really took a liking to the BP roll.  Still, glad to have that turd out of here.

Wow. Where the hell did you hear all that? I know he had the issues back in his Phillies time, but I had gotten the impression he'd mellowed a lot and was possibly even a bit of a leader-type on this team.

[BUWebguy]

Wow. Where the hell did you hear all that? I know he had the issues back in his Phillies time, but I had gotten the impression he'd mellowed a lot and was possibly even a bit of a leader-type on this team.

Ditto.

[Mr. Happy]

From what I have heard.... Myers was an absolute ass, he punched out Jamie Quirk, and also got in a fight with Bud and ended up punching him in the face.  How Myers wasn't run out of town after the Quirk incident is beyond me, but I guess they were to worried about his trade value. 

That was all last season, this season he seemed to mature some and really took a liking to the BP roll.  Still, glad to have that turd out of here.

FWIW, I heard about the Quirk "incident," but I didn't know that Myers actually punched Quirk. It would surprise me if that actually happened and he didn't get disciplined publicly. That's almost like choking the GM, a/k/a Chacon.

[Navin R Johnson]

Surprises me too Mr Happy.  Only thing I can think was Wade and Drayton didn't want to eat the salary and were hoping to move him. 

Quirk showed up to one of the events, wive's gala or something like that with a shiner.

[austro]

I'm glad that scraggly-ass beard is gone.

[Mr. Happy]

Surprises me too Mr Happy.  Only thing I can think was Wade and Drayton didn't want to eat the salary and were hoping to move him. 

Quirk showed up to one of the events, wive's gala or something like that with a shiner.

Wow. I'm glad that he is gone, even if it means that we will lose more games. I Guess this means that Cordero or Lopez is the new closer?

[austro]

Wow. I'm glad that he is gone, even if it means that we will lose more games.

Given his recent performance, it's hard to imagine that we will lose more games.

[pots]

Per Heyman tweet:

Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS
#chisox only responsible for $1M of myers' deal this year. also received $ toward '13 salary or buyout.

Probably just the buyout money.  Myers' 2013 club option vests if he finishes games, which supposedly he will not be in Chicago

He leaves with class:


http://twitter.com/TheOutlaw39/status/226772121798467584

Brett Myers
 ‏@TheOutlaw39 I wanna thank the Astros organization and their fans for the support and opportunity to play in Houston! My and I family enjoyed it there!

[jbm]

Why all this shit about Myers now, but not before?  Either really crappy reporting, or a really tight ship. If a tight ship, then there is at least something this club does well. 

[astrosfan76]

Another neither here nor there, but...

Sean Pendergast ‏@SeanCablinasian
Good thing they waited till Carlos left -- RT @brianmctaggart Astros have claimed 25-year-old RHP Mark Hamburger off waivers from the Padres

Sounds like a natural for those Whataburger appearances.

[Mr. Happy]

Wow. I'm glad that he is gone, even if it means that we will lose more games. I Guess this means that Cordero or Lopez is the new closer?

According to a Chron tweet, Cordero is the new closer. A washed up 37 year old closer who is living on a slider pitching for a washed up team. It fits.

[Ron Brand]

According to a Chron tweet, Cordero is the new closer. A washed up 37 year old closer who is living on a slider pitching for a washed up team. It fits.

I was surprised at that too. He sure hasn't shown anything this season.

[austro]

According to a Chron tweet, Cordero is the new closer. A washed up 37 year old closer who is living on a slider pitching for a washed up team. It fits.

I don't understand why this is surprising. They gave up one of their two remaining tradeable pieces, and got a nominal closer back (and, really, how often does this team need a closer?). We're just going to have to suck it up and suffer through the next couple of years.

[Mr. Happy]

I was surprised at that too. He sure hasn't shown anything this season.

You never know. Maybe pitching for this travelin' horseshit show may reinvigorate his career. Of course, at 52, I could work on my knuckleball and pitch in the big leagues. Anything (but that) is possible.

[Ron Brand]

Cordero has pretty much sucked this year, and Lopez has been fairly effective, more so than Cordero anyway.

[Mr. Happy]

I don't understand why this is surprising. They gave up one of their two remaining tradeable pieces, and got a nominal closer back (and, really, how often does this team need a closer?). We're just going to have to suck it up and suffer through the next couple of years.

fasten your seatbelts, gentlemen. It's about to get even uglier.

[chuck]

Why all this shit about Myers now, but not before?  Either really crappy reporting, or a really tight ship. If a tight ship, then there is at least something this club does well. 

Believe it or not Pinwheel said last year something to the effect of if the Astros are ever going to improve there is one cancer in the clubhouse they will surely have to remove. (He probably did it without the Johnny Cochran rhetorical flourish, but anyway.) At the time I thought that it could not possibly be Myers because that would have been too obvious; why not just come out and name him? So from then on I have wondered almost on a daily basis who that cancer could be. I guess now I know. Apparently everyone knew but me and Reuben.

I remember when they signed Myers Alkie said something like, Well, this is the end of the Astros that we used to know. I thought it hyperbolic at the time but have come to see that he was right. I'm all for giving a guy a break and all but there are some things that are so obviously, so repugnantly wrong that in my view there exists a very slim chance for redemption.

This may be addition by subtraction. I too think the Astros will lose 110 or more games (I said this months ago), but it won't be because they don't have Myers to lock things down anymore. If anything his absence will help the team. I am disappointed that they named Cordero the closer. I was hoping that they'd take a closer by committee approach. Lopez is obviously far and away the most effective reliever they have. Rather than make him the closer (which I'm sure his agent is lobbying hard for) I'd like to see him inserted in the most perilous situations and sort of build around that. On a team in this sort of disarray I think it's crazy to have a designated closer.

But I think Luhnow is doing a great job. He's getting return for players that won't be around in the surprising event that the team does not suck in three, four, five years. He's jettisoning dead weight. His draft was an absolute home run, at least as far as we can tell today.

And since I'm in a good mood I'll give credit to my old friend Ed Wade for drafting Springer. I think that he's going to be a star. One good player in four years of drafts isn't asking too much I don't think.

[chuck]

And I was in a perfectly good mood until the plastic bag of the four beers I was carrying broke and reflexively trying to catch them one bottle hit my hand and inexplicably shattered fucking slashing both hands and making a worrisome cut to the base of my right thumb.

This is not the first time I've cut my hand in a beer related incident but it is certainly the first time I've done so before I've actually drunk the beer. I guess we all age.

I have the bleeding under control now and I doubt I'll need stitches. As I mention I have some lamentable experience in these matters.

[Ron Brand]

Dammit Chuck, take care of yourself.

[Ebby Calvin]

And I was in a perfectly good mood until the plastic bag of the four beers I was carrying broke and reflexively trying to catch them one bottle hit my hand and inexplicably shattered fucking slashing both hands and making a worrisome cut to the base of my right thumb.

This is not the first time I've cut my hand in a beer related incident but it is certainly the first time I've done so before I've actually drunk the beer. I guess we all age.

I have the bleeding under control now and I doubt I'll need stitches. As I mention I have some lamentable experience in these matters.

See what happens when you praise Ed Wade?

[chuck]

See what happens when you praise Ed Wade?

Man, you're not kidding. If I ever happen to say anything nice about that goon again I'll have to remember to buy cans for the duration of the immediate karmic aftermath. Or get the bitch to double bag it at least.

[remy]

See what happens when you praise Ed Wade?

sfn

[drew corleone]

Well I hope the surviving beers help ease the pain, Chuck.

[chuck]

Well I hope the surviving beers help ease the pain, Chuck.

There was some awful 80's movie, Fast Times at Ridgemont High, something like that, I'm sure one of our many 80's movie experts will know immediately, that had a sort of labored masturbation joke - one of the guys beat off so much that hair grew on the palms of his hands requiring him to shave and of course he subsequently cut himself and had band-aids on the palms of his hands. Well, that's me, wandering around with band-aids on the palms of my hands (and beyond) like some sort of massive pajón.

The beer by the way was Club Colombia Negro which is pretty good if you like watery dark beers like Heineken Dark or Becks Dark. It's nowhere near as heavy or deep as a porter but it's an agreeable change from the regular Club Colombia. They have a Rojo, also, which to me is terrible as I despise all redish and most brownish beers but the regular Club is quite good for an unassuming sort of pilsner.

There wasn't really any pain, just a lot of blood, but thanks. That reminds me, I'm going to go change my dressings.

[austro]

There was some awful 80's movie, Fast Times at Ridgemont High, something like that, I'm sure one of our many 80's movie experts will know immediately, that had a sort of labored masturbation joke - one of the guys beat off so much that hair grew on the palms of his hands requiring him to shave and of course he subsequently cut himself and had band-aids on the palms of his hands. Well, that's me, wandering around with band-aids on the palms of my hands (and beyond) like some sort of massive pajón.

The beer by the way was Club Colombia Negro which is pretty good if you like watery dark beers like Heineken Dark or Becks Dark. It's nowhere near as heavy or deep as a porter but it's an agreeable change from the regular Club Colombia. They have a Rojo, also, which to me is terrible as I despise all redish and most brownish beers but the regular Club is quite good for an unassuming sort of pilsner.

There wasn't really any pain, just a lot of blood, but thanks. That reminds me, I'm going to go change my dressings.

I take issue with the characterization of "Fast Times at Ridgemont High" as "awful". Next you'll tell me that "Rock and Roll High School" is dreck.

[Ron Brand]

P J Soles means it cannot be dreck.

It goes without saying that the Ramones mean the same thing.

[austro]

P J Soles means it cannot be dreck.

It goes without saying that the Ramones mean the same thing.

Thank you.

[Mr. Happy]

P J Soles means it cannot be dreck.

It goes without saying that the Ramones mean the same thing.

I have several Ramones songs on both of my ipods.

[Ron Brand]

I have several Ramones songs on both of my ipods.

I have failed at many things, but my daughters are Ramones fans.

[strosrays]

And I was in a perfectly good mood until the plastic bag of the four beers I was carrying broke and reflexively trying to catch them one bottle hit my hand and inexplicably shattered fucking slashing both hands and making a worrisome cut to the base of my right thumb.

This is not the first time I've cut my hand in a beer related incident but it is certainly the first time I've done so before I've actually drunk the beer. I guess we all age.

I have the bleeding under control now and I doubt I'll need stitches. As I mention I have some lamentable experience in these matters.

What I like is that through all this, you never stopped typing.

[OregonStrosFan]

PTBNL isn't always about a recent signee.  It could have to do with Myers performance the rest of the way.

To the extent that it is a player on the DL, here is your list (in White Sox and Blue Jays trades: LINK to Farmstros

[chuck]

What I like is that through all this, you never stopped typing.

I can do any number of things with one hand.

[Mr. Happy]

I can do any number of things with one hand.

Must. Resist. Urge. To. Slam. This. One. HOme.

[Jose Cruz III]

I can do any number of things with one hand.

Shaving your palms not being one, apparently.

[Reuben]

To the extent that it is a player on the DL, here is your list (in White Sox and Blue Jays trades: LINK to Farmstros

Would being on the DL keep a minor leaguer from being named, though? Schafer was on the DL at the time of the Bourn trade.

[jaklewein]

Would being on the DL keep a minor leaguer from being named, though? Schafer was on the DL at the time of the Bourn trade.

I think it depends on the deal.  It was a while back, but I remember reading an article that discussed PlayersTBNL.  One of the uses for such was with guys that were injured.  Sometimes part of the deal is an alloted amount of time to get to see said player come off the DL (or not) and play prior to making your decision.  Assuming you decide against that player there would a short list of others players that you could plug into the deal in that players place.

[OregonStrosFan]

I think it depends on the deal.  It was a while back, but I remember reading an article that discussed PlayersTBNL.

Here is an old Neyer primer on the subject: ESPN LINK

[moriartp]

Dempster appears to be headed to Atlanta. Reports say Randall Delgado is in the deal.

[astrosfan76]

Hey Brad,

Leave Wandy in tonight.  That is all.

[astrosfan76]

Morosi reporting Anibal Sanchez + Omar Infante to the Tigers for Jacob Turner plus.  Plus what, who knows, but hey, he's first.

[moriartp]

Morosi reporting Anibal Sanchez + Omar Infante to the Tigers for Jacob Turner plus.  Plus what, who knows, but hey, he's first.

Anibal Sanchez, Omar Infante, and Miami's competitive balance pick are headed to Detroit in exchange for Jacob Turner, Rob Brantly, Brian Flynn, and Detroit's competitive balance pick. It's an interesting trade.

Levine pointed this out the other day: good job by Luhnow of moving early on trades. If he'd waited toward closer to the deadline, the Marlins would obviously not have been a suitor for Carlos. By July 31, the White Sox might feel less like buyers. I'm fascinated to see what happens with Wandy.

[astrosfan76]

Anibal Sanchez, Omar Infante, and Miami's competitive balance pick are headed to Detroit in exchange for Jacob Turner, Rob Brantly, Brian Flynn, and Detroit's competitive balance pick. It's an interesting trade.

Those picks are now dead, so neither team can use their pick for future trades.

[OregonStrosFan]

Anibal Sanchez, Omar Infante, and Miami's competitive balance pick are headed to Detroit in exchange for Jacob Turner, Rob Brantly, Brian Flynn, and Detroit's competitive balance pick. It's an interesting trade.

Forget this trade... Ichiro to the Yankees?!?  WOW, didn't see that coming...

‏@JackCurryYES
 
The Yankees have acquired Ichiro Suzuki for RHPs DJ Mitchell and Danny Fahrquar, a source said. Yanks also get undisclosed cash in deal.

[jbm]

Shit, I liked Ichiro.

[moriartp]

Forget this trade... Ichiro to the Yankees?!?  WOW, didn't see that coming...

‏@JackCurryYES
 
The Yankees have acquired Ichiro Suzuki for RHPs DJ Mitchell and Danny Fahrquar, a source said. Yanks also get undisclosed cash in deal.

That is very surprising. But as @jonbernhardt points out, it makes sense on one very important level: "The most important thing the Mariners acquired in this trade was an excuse not to extend Ichiro"

[Ebby Calvin]

Shit, I liked Ichiro.

First thing I thought, too.

[Reuben]

Morosi reporting Anibal Sanchez + Omar Infante to the Tigers for Jacob Turner plus.  Plus what, who knows, but hey, he's first.

I thought Turner was supposed to be a big deal... the Tigers gave him up for two slightly-above-average players, neither of whom will be around for long (Sanchez is a FA this winter, Infante next)? Makes me wonder what they would've offered for Wandy.

[austro]

Makes me wonder what they would've offered for Wandy.

I think people need to prepare themselves to be underwhelmed by the return for Wandy. I absolutely think he'll be moved, but I don't expect anything interesting in return.

[jbm]

If they don't get offered anything worthwhile, why deal him?

[austro]

If they don't get offered anything worthwhile, why deal him?

Sell high?

[Fredia]

wandy tonight could affect the trade value

[Reuben]

If they don't get offered anything worthwhile, why deal him?

Agree. I hope they don't. Meaning, I hope Crane hasn't told Luhnow to get Wandy's salary off the books no matter what.

Sell high?

I think you're joking... I expect Wandy to get over his slump sooner or later. Maybe they can work out a waiver deal in August, since so many people seem to think his salary is so outrageous.

[austro]

I think you're joking... I expect Wandy to get over his slump sooner or later. Maybe they can work out a waiver deal in August, since so many people seem to think his salary is so outrageous.

Half-joking, half not. Clearly there's value in being able to run out a veteran every five days, and I don't think that they're so desperate to shed salary that they'd let him go for nothing. But I *do* think that Wandy is in decline, and I think that what you've seen this year (which isn't all that great) is all you're likely to see in the future. At this point he's just an average starter.

[juliogotay]

Half-joking, half not. Clearly there's value in being able to run out a veteran every five days, and I don't think that they're so desperate to shed salary that they'd let him go for nothing. But I *do* think that Wandy is in decline, and I think that what you've seen this year (which isn't all that great) is all you're likely to see in the future. At this point he's just an average starter.

Wandy may benefit by a change of scenery. He seems like a guy that has concentration problems at times and pitching in the current situation may not be keeping him mentally sharp.

[jbm]

Wandy could put two more years of mid three ERA for almost 200 innings and people will still act like you can just pick that up at the corner store. 

[Bench]

Agree. I hope they don't. Meaning, I hope Crane hasn't told Luhnow to get Wandy's salary off the books no matter what.

When he was interviewed during last night's game, Luhnow said there was no salary need to move Wandy, only for prospects. 

[moriartp]

When he was interviewed during last night's game, Luhnow said there was no salary need to move Wandy, only for prospects. 

Levine also put up a post yesterday in which Luhnow said that with all the money coming off the books, they'll be active in free agency (no big long-term contracts, but more active than last offseason). I don't know how much that will be contingent on clearing Wandy's salary, but the payroll will be very low in either case.

[MusicMan]

Wandy could put two more years of mid three ERA for almost 200 innings and people will still act like you can just pick that up at the corner store. 

/checks last two months
//looks for mid three ERA
///sees only Chris Holt-level performance

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Wandy may benefit by a change of scenery. He seems like a guy that has concentration problems at times and pitching in the current situation may not be keeping him mentally sharp.

I don't see many teams lining up to hand over high quality prospects for a pitcher with "concentration problems".  At best, high-ceiling, low floor types.  Most likely, reliever-type prospects with Houston picking up a hefty portion of the salary. 

[jbm]

/checks last two months
//looks for mid three ERA
///sees only Chris Holt-level performance

Sure, there are arguments that support the Wandy is a middling pitcher argument and I've heard many different ones for years, yet he continues to produce.

As to this specific one, I don't doubt you could cull out periods in any of those years and have made the same argument, as you most likely could for a lot of pitchers with similar stats.  If he continues on his recent pace for the rest of the year, let me know.  Until then, I'll judge him by what he has done over a much longer period. 

[MusicMan]

Sure, there are arguments that support the Wandy is a middling pitcher argument and I've heard many different ones for years, yet he continues to produce.

As to this specific one, I don't doubt you could cull out periods in any of those years and have made the same argument, as you most likely could for a lot of pitchers with similar stats.  If he continues on his recent pace for the rest of the year, let me know.  Until then, I'll judge him by what he has done over a much longer period. 

The problem is that teams that need immediate help will judge him on recent performance.  Or at least will say they are in establishing price.

[jbm]

You are no doubt correct.  It is obvious that he does not have much value in the open market, and it just baffles me as to why.  It also baffles me why people want to deal him just to deal him because then you are faced with signing his production on the open market and paying a price similar to his current salary.  Thankfully, if Luhnow wasn't just BS-ing on the broadcast, he won't deal him just to deal him, and will demand a fair price to deal him. 

[juliogotay]

I don't see many teams lining up to hand over high quality prospects for a pitcher with "concentration problems".  At best, high-ceiling, low floor types.  Most likely, reliever-type prospects with Houston picking up a hefty portion of the salary. 

I never argued that teams would have to break the bank to get Wandy. My point is that he could turn out to be a good value for a new team.

[Mr. Happy]

You are no doubt correct.  It is obvious that he does not have much value in the open market, and it just baffles me as to why.  It also baffles me why people want to deal him just to deal him because then you are faced with signing his production on the open market and paying a price similar to his current salary.  Thankfully, if Luhnow wasn't just BS-ing on the broadcast, he won't deal him just to deal him, and will demand a fair price to deal him. 

I don't know that he doesn't have much value in the open market; desperate teams looking for arms will take a flyer on a proven lefty starter. I just suspect that no one values him as highly as Luhnow right now in terms of what Luhnow wants in exchange. Give it a few more days. If Oswalt's back is still out and Feliz isn't coming back yet, even the stRangers could be in the hunt for Wandy. Just my own hunch.

[juliogotay]

I don't know that he doesn't have much value in the open market; desperate teams looking for arms will take a flyer on a proven lefty starter. I just suspect that no one values him as highly as Luhnow right now in terms of what Luhnow wants in exchange. Give it a few more days. If Oswalt's back is still out and Feliz isn't coming back yet, even the stRangers could be in the hunt for Wandy. Just my own hunch.

My gut tells me that the Rangers will shoot, and get because of their organizational strength, higher than Wandy. Maybe Greinke, Hamels? They have said only the hot-shot SS at Frisco is unavailable in the right deal and they really need a top-of-the-rotation guy they feel comfortable with starting game one or two of a playoff/WS. Lewis probably would have been that guy before the season-ending injury. Feliz may go back to the pen when he's well. It will be interesting to see if they dangle Olt, a 3Bman with 20+ HRs.

[ferret]

Levine also put up a post yesterday in which Luhnow said that with all the money coming off the books, they'll be active in free agency (no big long-term contracts, but more active than last offseason). I don't know how much that will be contingent on clearing Wandy's salary, but the payroll will be very low in either case.

Free agents? To do what with? Two years and an option bullshit? If they also buy a monkey to ride on the guys head while he runs in circles that might at least draw a crowd.

[BizidyDizidy]

Free agents? To do what with? Two years and an option bullshit? If they also buy a monkey to ride on the guys head while he runs in circles that might at least draw a crowd.

Trade at the deadline?

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Free agents? To do what with? Two years and an option bullshit? If they also buy a monkey to ride on the guys head while he runs in circles that might at least draw a crowd.

Because having someone to play 3B adequately for the next three/four years until Correa's ready might be worthwhile.

[ferret]

Trade at the deadline?

That's what I was thinking.  Adding to the endless round of 2 minor leaguers for 1 major leaguer trades.  It does not take freeing up free agent money to find someone to catch a ground ball at 3rd for a couple years.

[Bench]

That's what I was thinking.  Adding to the endless round of 2 minor leaguers for 1 major leaguer trades.  It does not take freeing up free agent money to find someone to catch a ground ball at 3rd for a couple years.

To be fair, the trades are the most entertaining thing about this team these days.

[Gizzmonic]

Because having someone to play 3B adequately for the next three/four years until Correa's ready might be worthwhile.

Have they already given up on Correa at short? (frowny face)

[ferret]

To be fair, the trades are the most entertaining thing about this team these days.

The cult of the GM is not entertaining.

[juliogotay]

Have they already given up on Correa at short? (frowny face)

No. Everything I've heard from Luhnow is that he is a SS.

[moriartp]

Have they already given up on Correa at short? (frowny face)

I haven't heard anyone say Correa lacks the skills to stay there. Those who think he'll have to move base their position on the assumption that a 6'4" 17-year-old is going to grow out of the position as he fills out. Personally, I don't have a fucking clue, but everyone seems to agree that he'll be a good defender at whichever position his body allows him to play.

[Arky Vaughan]

/checks last two months
//looks for mid three ERA
///sees only Chris Holt-level performance

Chris Holt was unfairly maligned.

[Arky Vaughan]

Free agents? To do what with? Two years and an option bullshit? If they also buy a monkey to ride on the guys head while he runs in circles that might at least draw a crowd.

Excellent post.

[Arky Vaughan]

Those who think he'll have to move base their position on the assumption that a 6'4" 17-year-old is going to grow out of the position as he fills out.

Just like the 6'4" 200-lb. Cal Ripken or the 6'3" 225-lb. Alex Rodriguez?

[JimR]

Chris Holt was unfairly maligned.

he was not maligned nearly enough.

[MusicMan]

Chris Holt was unfairly maligned.

This is where I have a problem with ERA+.  As Bill James said, if you come up with a metric and it gives you results that are glaringly false, re-evaluate the metric.

ERA+ is telling me Chris Holt was a league-average pitcher for his career.  If that were true, his career would have lasted longer than 4 years.

[Mr. Happy]

This is where I have a problem with ERA+.  As Bill James said, if you come up with a metric and it gives you results that are glaringly false, re-evaluate the metric.

ERA+ is telling me Chris Holt was a league-average pitcher for his career.  If that were true, his career would have lasted longer than 4 years.

If they're going to go all statty on us, his career WHIP was 1.5, which sucks. We chronicled here, because I was a party to it, all of the many levels of his suckitude.

[subnuclear]

This is where I have a problem with ERA+.  As Bill James said, if you come up with a metric and it gives you results that are glaringly false, re-evaluate the metric.

ERA+ is telling me Chris Holt was a league-average pitcher for his career.  If that were true, his career would have lasted longer than 4 years.

The league average ERA was 4.96 and 5.03 in 1999 and 2000 respectively. Holt had ERAs of 4.66 and 5.35 with an ERA+ of 96 and 93 those two years. (2012 ERA average in NL is 3.95 for reference.) So steroids are the problem, not so much the stat.

[Arky Vaughan]

You guys need to switch on the sarc-o-meter.

[chuck]

You guys need to switch on the sarc-o-meter.

Luhnow traded it.

[BizidyDizidy]

Luhnow traded it.

For three mildly promising gaydars.

[Mr. Happy]

The league average ERA was 4.96 and 5.03 in 1999 and 2000 respectively. Holt had ERAs of 4.66 and 5.35 with an ERA+ of 96 and 93 those two years. (2012 ERA average in NL is 3.95 for reference.) So steroids are the problem, not so much the stat.

What I remember most about Holt was that he always seemed to pitch just well enough to lose. With a 28-51 career record, he had plenty of experience losing.

[geezerdonk]

Free agents? To do what with? Two years and an option bullshit? If they also buy a monkey to ride on the guys head while he runs in circles that might at least draw a crowd.

How many free agents worth having are going to want to sign with a team that has a maximum upside of 50 wins?

[ferret]

How many free agents worth having are going to want to sign with a team that has a maximum upside of 50 wins?

End of a career guy playing out the string maybe?  I think the monkey on the head thing will scare off a few too.  Why even say something like that in the press?  Get the fans hopes up?

[Bench]

How many free agents worth having are going to want to sign with a team that has a maximum upside of 50 wins?

Someone who wants a job and money?

[Waldo]

What I remember most about Holt was that he always seemed to pitch just well enough to lose. With a 28-51 career record, he had plenty of experience losing.

Even when he pitched well he didn't get any run support.  On the 1999 team, at least.

[Mr. Happy]

Even when he pitched well he didn't get any run support.  On the 1999 team, at least.

It sounds as if your recollection is similar to mine. I remember Holt getting blown out as well as losing 3-2. He just always seemed to lose the ball game.

[JimR]

Even when he pitched well he didn't get any run support.  On the 1999 team, at least.

A pitcher's job is to give up fewer runs than his team scores. WFW to no run support.

[Waldo]

A pitcher's job is to give up fewer runs than his team scores. WFW to no run support.

Not arguing that point at all.  The guy clearly knew how to lose ballgames.

[NeilT]

A pitcher's job is to give up fewer runs than his team scores. WFW to no run support.

Has anyone told Cordero? 

[Arky Vaughan]

I see we're still arguing like its 1999.

[MusicMan]

I see we're still arguing like its 1999.

They say two thousand zero zero party on the roofs, out of time...

[hostros7]

Zachary Levine ‏@zacharylevine

Astros acquire Class A RHP Chris Devenski from White Sox as PTBNL in Brett Myers trade. Still one coming from Jays too.

25th rounder from 2011. 

BA

So does Devenski, a converted shortstop who transferred from Golden West JC. He fell out of favor early in the year before coming on again a bit in the second half, though he had a 4.98 ERA in 22 innings through 15 appearances on the spring. Devenski ran his fastball up to 94 mph in the fall, but he’s been more 90-92 and straight this spring, and there were outings when he worked in the high 80s. His slider and changeup are serviceable.

we'll see, but not what I had in mind when Luhnow suggested PBTNL as "key piece"

[Duman]

He started the year as a reliever and even closed two games before becoming a starter. This source says he was slated between a 5-15 round pick but fell to 25 due to sign-ability issues.

In time, maybe we will see what Lunhow saw.

[BudGirl]

I check in and see someone trying to defend Holt? WTF?

[Mr. Happy]

I check in and see someone trying to defend Holt? WTF?

It didn't work very well.

[juliogotay]

He started the year as a reliever and even closed two games before becoming a starter. This source says he was slated between a 5-15 round pick but fell to 25 due to sign-ability issues.

In time, maybe we will see what Lunhow saw.

Do you know if he was drafed as a pitcher or SS? I'm too lazy to look it up.

[Fynn]

Anyone who subscribes to MILB videos can watch Devenski pitch against Lexington back on July 11. 

[Duman]

Do you know if he was drafed as a pitcher or SS? I'm too lazy to look it up.

As a pitcher.  He converted from SS to P while in college.

[juliogotay]

As a pitcher.  He converted from SS to P while in college.

Ok, good. Thanks.