Carlos to Miami?

[Navin R Johnson]

According to Buster Olney on twitter:  Source: The Marlins are deep into talks with the Astros for Carlos Lee; he has indicated a willingness to play for Miami.

[Bench]

Gammons follows up with the fact that Florida is the second highest cattle producer in the country.

[Ron Brand]

Cabrera lives - where else? - in the GZ.

[Bench]

Cabrera lives - where else? - in the GZ.

I Cabrerad myself there after cabreraing myself here. Happy Cinco de Mayo America!

[Ron Brand]

Cabrera squared.

[Navin R Johnson]

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN "Am told that the Lee deal is not completely done, but there has been a whole lot of progress. As much as HOU wants to move Lee,seems likely."

[Bench]

Lee's locker has been cleared out.

[Navin R Johnson]

Brian McTaggart ‏@brianmctaggart

Lee's locker has been cleaned out and he is gone

[Bench]

Lee's locker has been cleared out.

According to the same people on twitter everyone else is watching too.

[Navin R Johnson]

Sources: The Marlins are trading Matt Dominguez and P Rob Rasmussen for Carlos Lee.

[Bench]

Olney says Dominguez and Rasmussen coming back from the marlins.

[Navin R Johnson]

Scouting for Dominguez

Statistically speaking: Dominguez turned on the power in the second half after shaking off the aftereffects of mono. The third baseman slugged .513 after the All-Star break, hitting 16 homers and driving in 63 runs in 265 at-bats.

Scouting report: Outstanding defensively, Dominguez also has a polished and advanced approach at the plate. He has plenty of ceiling and should hit for average and power. He's extremely coachable and has worked hard on establishing a better hitting base.

Upside potential: All-Star-caliber third baseman who is a run-producer and Gold Glover; a Scott Rolen type.

They said it: "He's a complete player, other than not running. He's a baseball player who's very far along. He's been in the baseball eye for a long time. There's no question his bat was underrated. He does everything well and he's just a real smart player. He understands the game well." -- Jim Fleming, Marlins VP of Player Development and Scouting

[Bench]

If Luhnow traded Carlos Lee for the next incarnation of Scott Rolen I'm going to have to reconsider this whole atheism thing.

[Ron Brand]

Olney: Dodgers are talking to Astros about a trade that would send Jed Lowrie to the Dodgers,with minor-leaguers Zach Lee and Garrett Gould to HOU.

[jbm]

Olney: Dodgers are talking to Astros about a trade that would send Jed Lowrie to the Dodgers,with minor-leaguers Zach Lee and Garrett Gould to HOU.

Wow.  Deja vu all over again.

[MusicMan]

Luhnow just got the Marlins' #4&7 prospects for half a year of Carlos Lee.

I like this guy.

[Mr. Happy]

Luhnow just got the Marlins' #4&7 prospects for half a year of Carlos Lee.

I like this guy.

According to Jim Bowden, the 3B will never hit enough to be there, so there is a divergence of opinion on that kid.

[Ron Brand]

Luhnow just got the Marlins' #4&7 prospects for half a year of Carlos Lee.

I like this guy.

Well, half a year and the bulk, if not all of Lee's pay but yeah, I like this guy too.

[moriartp]

Luhnow just got the Marlins' #4&7 prospects for half a year of Carlos Lee.

I like this guy.

Marlins' 4th and 7th best prospects doesn't mean that much. Fernandez and Yelich are the top talents in that system by far, and there's a very steep dropoff afterward. Still, getting anything in return for Carlos is impressive.

[jbm]

Evaluating trades an hour after they are completed is folly.  Nice to move on though and see how Wallace does.

[Mr. Happy]

Tags confirms that the deal is done.

[BudGirl]

If Luhnow traded Carlos Lee for the next incarnation of Scott Rolen I'm going to have to reconsider this whole atheism thing.

Footer tweeted:  Jeff Luhnow pulls off the impossible, finding two trade partners for Carlos Lee in one week.  I shall now refer to him as Moses.

[BudGirl]

Tags confirms that the deal is done.

and Lowrie removed in double switch, not traded.

But that sounds odd when Mills wouldn't comment on why Lowrie came out of the game.  Granted the question was asked why Carlos and Jed came out, but he could have said Jed came out in a double switch.

[BUWebguy]

Baseball America on Dominguez this past winter:

Dominguez and Chatsworth (Calif.) High teammate Mike Moustakas were both firstround picks in 2007, with Dominguez signing for $1.8 million as the No. 12 choice. The No. 1 prospect on this list a year ago, he entered spring training favored to win a starting job. But he batted just .190 before he was reassigned to minor league camp, where a pitch fractured his left elbow and cost him the first five weeks of the season. Dominguez's calling card always has been his defense. He possesses Gold Glove ability, with good anticipation, quick feet, smooth hands and a strong, accurate arm. He has yet to make the same kind of impact at the plate, however. Dominguez's hand-eye coordination works against him, as he believes he can put the bat on pitches he needs to let go. He gets tied up on the inner half and rarely drives the ball with authority. If he can become more selective and repeat his swing, he could become an average hitter with average power. He has below-average speed but good instincts. After making his big league debut in September, Dominguez will challenge for the third-base job again in spring training. He'll likely need some more time at Triple-A New Orleans before his bat is ready.

[BUWebguy]

BA on Rasmussen:

Rasmussen was the No. 3 starter on UCLA's College World Series runner-up team in 2010, pitching behind Gerrit Cole and Trevor Bauer, the first and third picks in the 2011 draft. Rasmussen pitched just seven innings after signing and essentially made his pro debut in 2011, when he posted a 5.91 ERA in April and a 3.26 mark afterward. Rasmussen owns four solid-average pitches with a 90-93 mph fastball, a slider, a curveball and a changeup. His fastball command was poor early in the season, when he worked up in the zone too frequently and wasn't able to get away with it like he did in college. He learned to keep his fastball down and move it all around the zone, and he also did a better job of pitching off his heater. Rasmussen's 84-87 mph slider is his best secondary pitch, though he still needs to improve the angle on it. He gets nice two-plane break on his upper-70s curve. He isn't afraid to work inside. Rasmussen will move up to Double-A Jacksonville in 2012 and may not need much more than another year in the minors. Some Marlins officials see his future as a situational lefty, but he'll continue to start for now.

[BUWebguy]

Rosenthal says Astros are paying all but the pro-rated minimum on Lee's contract.

[austro]

Rosenthal says Astros are paying all but the pro-rated minimum on Lee's contract.

They would have been paying it anyway. This doesn't bother me. I'm happy to get some more talent in the farm system. Although Rasmussen sounds like he might be Happ 2.0, which will give Mr. Happy an aneurysm.

[Reuben]

Apparently the Marlins were NOT one of the teams Lee could veto trades to; AstrosCounty passing on twitter from a Miami reporter. I wonder how Lee feels about it.

[Mr. Happy]

They would have been paying it anyway. This doesn't bother me. I'm happy to get some more talent in the farm system. Although Rasmussen sounds like he might be Happ 2.0, which will give Mr. Happy an aneurysm.

It sounds as if Rasmussen learned his lesson (hello? JA Happ? Anybody to home?) and is keeping the ball down now, so he might be better, but I don't know how much ceiling he has if the Fish saw him only as a situational lefty.

[Fredia]

at least things  are being shook up.

[Mr. Happy]

Apparently the Marlins were NOT one of the teams Lee could veto trades to; AstrosCounty passing on twitter from a Miami reporter. I wonder how Lee feels about it.

It's irrelevant how Lee feels about it. If he was so adamant about not getting traded without his consent, he could have held on to his 10/5 rights, but he bartered them for something different. Now, the Astros bartered him. It's part of the game.  Lee's been traded before, so he'll adjust, for however much longer he intends to play. My sense is that he's going to hang 'em up at the end of this season.

[JimR]

i liked Carlos. he was a good Astro.

[Fredia]

they seemed to be heading young and cheap
was interesting to seem him mentor altuve

[jbm]

i liked Carlos. he was a good Astro.

I did too.  I realize why he is gone, but he never deserved the crap he took.  

[austro]

i liked Carlos. he was a good Astro.

People diss him because of his lack of a hustle face (sound familiar?). I wish him well in Miami.

[Mr. Happy]

i liked Carlos. he was a good Astro.

+1 Lee strikes me as a real good clubhouse guy too. He didn't seem to get full of himself after his big Astros payday and seems to be a very balanced, fun-loving nice guy. I wish him all the best.

[Gizzmonic]

I did too.  I realize why he is gone, but he never deserved the crap he took.  

He looks fat and doesn't always run out ground balls.  That's enough for some people to hate him.  I never really felt that much either way.  He was a fine hitter for many years, but that's it.  Glad that we got some prospects for him.

[Mr. Happy]

People diss him because of his lack of a hustle face (sound familiar?). I wish him well in Miami.

+1 The only problem that I really had with Carlos is that in the later years, he didn't seem to be in good enough physical shape and often got gassed after running the bases hard but once. However, that criticism could be leveled at any number of big league ballplayers, so it really isn't that much of a criticism.

[Mr. Happy]

Tags just tweeted that Dominguez reports to the parent club (so no Wallace for now) in pittsburgh tomorrow and Rasmussen to AA Corpus Christi.

[chuck]

I'm sorry they moved him so soon. I was hoping he'd stick around for the home series against the Brewers so the home crowd could boo him and I could lose my mind. Oh well.

Today Nutsie - y'all remember Nutsie, right? - Nutsie sent out a mass email to all of her contacts about the trade. She'd been sending out email messages about the goings-on with the Dodgers, too. I have no idea why she's doing this unless Carlos is a client of hers which I doubt strongly. Anyway, here you go:

WHILE CARLOS REJECTED L.A.- THE LAND OF ILLEGALS AND HIGH TAXES AND STATE BANKRUPTCY, HE ACCEPTED MIAMI AND WILL BE COMING TO FLORIDA-LAND OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, RISING TAXES ON EVERYTHING AND PLACE IN NEED OF A SLUGGER WITH GIANCARLO STANTON ON THE D.L. WITH KNEE INJURY.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120704&content_id=34453468&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb
YOU WILL HAVE TO COPY AND PASTE LINK!

[jbm]

Tags just tweeted that Dominguez reports to the parent club (so no Wallace for now) in pittsburgh tomorrow and Rasmussen to AA Corpus Christi.

That is strange. Maybe something else is up.  Maybe they really like him and feel he is ready.

[juliogotay]

Johnson to play first?

[Ron Brand]

Johnson to play first?

Maybe CJ is going somewhere.

[chuck]

Maybe CJ is going somewhere.

A fielding clinic perhaps.

[jbm]

To a room with Schafer where they scowl at each other for hours.

[Mr. Happy]

To a room with Schafer where they scowl at each other for hours.

That would be a scary staredown, as the two of them might grumble each other crazy.

[Mr. Happy]

Johnson to play first?

Quite possibly.

[pots]

You can't spell Luhnow without Hun.  #4 and #7? I know the Marlins have a bad system but damn that is amazing

[pots]

You can't spell Luhnow without Hun.  #4 and #7? I know the Marlins have a bad system but damn that is amazing

Hessman was not in the lineup today at OKC...

[Ron Brand]

Levine says Dominguez is up through the break to back up CJ because of his injury and then they'll decide where he goes.

[Mr. Happy]

The Fish sent Sanchez down to New Orleans today, so Lee must be expecting to report tomorrow for work instead of waiting the up to three days that the players have under the CBA. Ozzie took a parting shot at Sanchez's performance as the reason for the deal.  While everyone knows that, it takes Ozzie to be able to say it in a somewhat derogatory manner instead of putting a positive spin on it and saying something like "he needs to go down and play every day and work out the kinks."

[Mr. Happy]

Levine says Dominguez is up through the break to back up CJ because of his injury and then they'll decide where he goes.

omany backup 3B do they need? Downs, Bixler and Moore isn't sufficient?

[pots]

Hessman was not in the lineup today at OKC...

Scratch that Hessman pinch hitting as I type

[BUWebguy]

BP on the two prospects, FWIW:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=17576&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[juliogotay]

BP on the two prospects, FWIW:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=17576&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Pedro Feliz comp? That'll tempur your enthusiasm. 

[chuck]

Pedro Feliz comp? That'll tempur your enthusiasm. 

That's a bit of a cold shower, isn't it? Although I remember Feliz's defense being fairly suspect in his blessedly brief tenure with the team.

[Mr. Happy]

That's a bit of a cold shower, isn't it? Although I remember Feliz's defense being fairly suspect in his blessedly brief tenure with the team.

Your memory is correct, although in fairness to Feliz, he was at the end of his career, so it really wasn't a good time to assess his fielding. I seem to remember Feliz as a plus third sacker in the field.

[moriartp]

I seem to remember Feliz as a plus third sacker in the field.

That was certainly his reputation, though I didn't see him play much at all before he joined the Astros. He seems like a reasonable comp for what we've read about Dominguez: good defense, occasional pop, not much else.

[pots]

It's a buy low on Dominguez.  He's only 22.  


http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=16250

While there is no guarantee that Dominguez will improve with the bat, his age and demonstrated skills provide tangible anchors for hope. Even if this is what he is—Pedro Feliz with a touch less power and a bit more on-base ability—that has value to a major-league roster. It’s all but guaranteed that he won’t develop into a star in Miami, but there is still a chance he could blossom under the tutelage of another organization’s coaching staff.

[astrosfan76]

It's a buy low on Dominguez.  He's only 22.  His poor AAA numbers this year are supposedly due to getting over mono.


http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=16250

Are you sure mono was this year? He already had it back in '08.

[pots]

Are you sure mono was this year? He already had it back in '08.

Nope read that somewhere.  Could have been an error.

ETA.  Looks like it was an error, striking it.

[Mr. Happy]

That was certainly his reputation, though I didn't see him play much at all before he joined the Astros. He seems like a reasonable comp for what we've read about Dominguez: good defense, occasional pop, not much else.

I just refreshed my memory of Feliz by looking at his fielding stats. Dominguez hopefully fields as well as Feliz, who fielded at 3B to a.963 fielding percentage, which is very good like they're seeming to paint Dominguez as being. Feliz had some real fine years at 3B, and he is tied for 35th in all-time fielding percentages as a 3B. Contrast that to CJ's career .927, which is horrible.

[Duman]

What was the dugout reaction when Lee came out of the game?  I remember last year when Pence came out, it was hugs all around.  This year the initial reaction I saw to the trade reaction was "He is gone and his locker is cleaned out." Maybe just a difference in player personality but it makes me wonder about how he was viewed buy the team.

[juliogotay]

What was the dugout reaction when Lee came out of the game?  I remember last year when Pence came out, it was hugs all around.  This year the initial reaction I saw to the trade reaction was "He is gone and his locker is cleaned out." Maybe just a difference in player personality but it makes me wonder about how he was viewed buy the team.

To my knowledge Carlos was a very popular teammate.

[pots]

To my knowledge Carlos was a very popular teammate.

Carlos may have been a good player and teammate.  The problem was the ridiculous contract he was under.  I'd like to think this officially ends the backlash from the Purpura era.  Only up from here. 

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Carlos may have been a good player and teammate.  The problem was the ridiculous contract he was under.  I'd like to think this officially ends the backlash from the Purpura era.  Only up from here. 

I didn't care about his contract or his lack of hustle face.  As a matter of face, once he was moved to 1B, I saw him as nothing but a positive contributor to this team.  It was not his fault that this team put him in LF with the full knowledge that he is not a fast man.  But as others have pointed out, he caught the balls he could get to and he always tried even if he lacked a hustle face to make that effort more obvious.

[Andyzipp]

I didn't care about his contract or his lack of hustle face.  As a matter of face, once he was moved to 1B, I saw him as nothing but a positive contributor to this team.  It was not his fault that this team put him in LF with the full knowledge that he is not a fast man.  But as others have pointed out, he caught the balls he could get to and he always tried even if he lacked a hustle face to make that effort more obvious.

And it was a stupid perception.  "Fast" is not a qualification for left field.

[subnuclear]

He was a big factor in that 2008 run. That was fun year until it wasn't.

[sporadic]

Carlos may have been a good player and teammate.  The problem was the ridiculous contract he was under.  I'd like to think this officially ends the backlash from the Purpura era.  Only up from here. 

Was his contract really all that ridiculous?  Guys that hit for average, get on base and have 100RBI/year aint going to come cheap.  Then again, I have always like Carlos and that might be clouding my judgment

[MusicMan]

Was his contract really all that ridiculous? 

It was known as ridiculous the moment it was announced.  The $16M/yr wasn't the problem, it was the 6 years.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

And it was a stupid perception.  "Fast" is not a qualification for left field.

This argument has played out too many times for me to have any desire to re-hash the topic.  It is not an issue with him playing 1B. 

[Reuben]

So, I'm confused. Dominguez is being called up, to take Lee's spot on the roster? But CJ is still the 3B starter? And Wallace is staying in AAA? So... who's playing 1B tonight? Moore? Downs? I don't understand why they wouldn't promote Wallace now, when you've already got Downs, Moore, and Bixler who can play 3rd in addition to Johnson (whom I assume they're trying to trade).

[Mr. Happy]

So, I'm confused. Dominguez is being called up, to take Lee's spot on the roster? But CJ is still the 3B starter? And Wallace is staying in AAA? So... who's playing 1B tonight? Moore? Downs? I don't understand why they wouldn't promote Wallace now, when you've already got Downs, Moore, and Bixler who can play 3rd in addition to Johnson (whom I assume they're trying to trade).

I read something that said it was temporary while CJ is on the mend.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Most multi-year free agent contracts have been ridiculous. Some more than others. Soriano, Wells, Fielder, Pujols, Zito, Werth... all, one way or another, ridiculous. If you're bidding against others to acquire a player and the money per year is close, adding years is what closes the deal.

Since they weren't spending my money, I was happy when Carlos was signed.

[pots]

I read something that said it was temporary while CJ is on the mend.

Plus I read that the All-Star break was a factor.  They wanted to make more permanent decisions during the break.   (Could be that they have other trades that might occur before then as well)

[MusicMan]

Since they weren't spending my money, I was happy when Carlos was signed.

As I've said before, I was pissed the moment I saw it on the crawl.

[pots]

Most multi-year free agent contracts have been ridiculous. Some more than others. Soriano, Wells, Fielder, Pujols, Zito, Werth... all, one way or another, ridiculous. If you're bidding against others to acquire a player and the money per year is close, adding years is what closes the deal.

Since they weren't spending my money, I was happy when Carlos was signed.

Wasn't just a matter of money.   It was for too many years, heavily backfilled AND had a no trade clause.  Was very shortsighted.  I don't blame Lee for the contract, that's all Purpura and Drayton.  

[mrpink]

As I've said before, I was pissed the moment I saw it on the crawl.

That was my reaction too.  If six years and $100MM is what it takes to get a player like Carlos Lee, then I think the prudent move is to let another team make that mistake and get handcuffed financially halfway through the deal.

[pots]

He was a big factor in that 2008 run. That was fun year until it wasn't.

Lee broke his finger.  He wasn't a part of the run

[subnuclear]

Lee broke his finger.  He wasn't a part of the run

For some reason, I thought the injury was earlier in the year. My brain is poop.

[MusicMan]

For some reason, I thought the injury was earlier in the year. My brain is poop.

As I recall, he was scorching hot (and carrying the offense) when he got hurt.

[HudsonHawk]

That was my reaction too.  If six years and $100MM is what it takes to get a player like Carlos Lee, then I think the prudent move is to let another team make that mistake and get handcuffed financially halfway through the deal.

This would be a good rant, if only it were true.  The Astros were not "hamstrung" by Lee's contract.  He was a very good hitter for them, for the duration of the contract.  He gave them exactly what they expected.  As Jim said, he was a good Astro.  The abuse he takes around here is in no way deserved.

[hostros7]

As I recall, he was scorching hot (and carrying the offense) when he got hurt.

Fact.  I think the winni g continued for a bit after, but Carlos had never swung the bat better than he was during that stretch.

[Ebby Calvin]

So, if you're a Marlins fan, how happy are you with this deal?  I'm having a hard time understanding their logic here.
And I'll agree with Coach and HH, I liked Carlos.

[pots]

As I recall, he was scorching hot (and carrying the offense) when he got hurt.

As true as that may be, the club was 3 games under 500 (56-59) going into that game.  And 30-16 after.  He did have a hand in the beginning of "the streak" though.  As they were 9-3 int the 12 games prior to his injury

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

 If six years and $100MM is what it takes to get a player like Carlos Lee, then I think the prudent move is to let another team make that mistake and get handcuffed financially halfway through the deal.

In the years following the deal, the previous owner continued to cut back on the budget, dump veterans, and fuck up the draft. If "handcuffed financially" means Lee made it harder to do that, I guess you're right.

[sporadic]

In any event, he will be one of the few guys I go out of my way to check box scores on every night.  Best of luck, El Caballo!

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

So, if you're a Marlins fan, how happy are you with this deal?  I'm having a hard time understanding their logic here.

A sense of urgency and Sanchez is pretty bad.

[BizidyDizidy]

He was a big factor in that 2008 run. That was fun year until it wasn't.

Everything's going along fine, then all of a sudden you turn into Horse

[chuck]

The abuse he takes around here is in no way deserved.

It's amazing. They sign a guy and he drives in 100 runs a year and except for the goons out by the Conoco pump in the decidedly incorrect hats everybody wants to vilify him. Yet Berkman is a hero.

[JimR]

As I've said before, I was pissed the moment I saw it on the crawl.

then you need a life.

[MusicMan]

It's amazing. They sign a guy and he drives in 100 runs a year and except for the goons out by the Conoco pump in the decidedly incorrect hats everybody wants to vilify him. Yet Berkman is a hero.

Things like routinely showing up late to Spring Training and/or all-star break will color thinking that way.

[MusicMan]

then you need a life.

Gee, thanks Jim.  I'll take that under advisement.

[JimR]

Gee, thanks Jim.  I'll take that under advisement.

it may be too late.

[chuck]

Things like routinely showing up late to Spring Training and/or all-star break will color thinking that way.

If by routinely you mean once, then yeah, good point. I can see that by spending 44 rather than 45 days in Kissimmee in 2008 he deserved all the scorn he got.

[MusicMan]

If by routinely you mean once, then yeah, good point. I can see that by spending 44 rather than 45 days in Kissimmee in 2008 he deserved all the scorn he got.

ASB in either 2009 and 2010, and I'm pretty sure spring training was at least twice.

[MusicMan]

it may be too late.

I have young children... it's too soon.

[chuck]

ASB in either 2009 and 2010, and I'm pretty sure spring training was at least twice.

The return from the break was as you surely know due to some pilot-related license fuck-up to which Carlos took responsibility and caused him to miss a voluntary workout.

You've said it yourself. You were pissed at his contract. You have every right to feel however you want to feel but don't pretend that it's logical.

[mrpink]

This would be a good rant, if only it were true.  The Astros were not "hamstrung" by Lee's contract.  He was a very good hitter for them, for the duration of the contract.  He gave them exactly what they expected.  As Jim said, he was a good Astro.  The abuse he takes around here is in no way deserved.

You know, I wanted to write "hamstrung" but wasn't 100% sure I had the right definition and was too lazy to google it. 

I agree wholeheartedly with the last two things you said, but he didn't give them what they expected for the past three years.  He's a below average hitting first baseman and he was a well below average hitting left fielder in 2010. 

[Bench]

It's amazing. They sign a guy and he drives in 100 runs a year and except for the goons out by the Conoco pump in the decidedly incorrect hats everybody wants to vilify him. Yet Berkman is a hero.

Yeah but he looks lazy.  Nothing to do with race, of course.

[subnuclear]

Yeah but he looks lazy.  Nothing to do with race, of course.

There were a lot of fat insults around here for Berkman, too.

[MusicMan]

Yeah but he looks lazy.  Nothing to do with race, of course.

As someone who had issues with Berkman's ethic too, compared to Bagwell and Biggio, let's just back the fuck off the race baiting.

[Bench]

As someone who had issues with Berkman's ethic too, compared to Bagwell and Biggio, let's just back the fuck off the race baiting.

Or compared Moises Alou and many other non-whites who didn't "look" lazy.  Like I said, nothing to do with race. 

But Berkman had a translatable sense of humor and affability that reached the public.

[Mr. Happy]

As I've said before, I was pissed the moment I saw it on the crawl.

I don't remember being pissed about it, but I do recall being very concerned that we'd overspent for a player like Lee for too long a period of time and that it would come back to bite us, which happened.

[chuck]

But Berkman had a translatable sense of humor and affability that reached the public.

He's a dumbass. Apparently a lot of people relate to that.

[Mr. Happy]

He's a dumbass. Apparently a lot of people relate to that.

But he's an Owl?

[chuck]

But he's an Owl?

So was Ricky Pierce.

[Mr. Happy]

So was Ricky Pierce.

Good point. Anyone can get in to any "elite" school with enough gold-plated athletic prowess. /ducks from Bizidy Dizidy/

[MusicMan]

So was Ricky Pierce.

Hoo?

[Gizzmonic]

He's a dumbass. Apparently a lot of people relate to that.

I know I do!

[Fredia]

twinkies for everyone

[Bench]

He's a dumbass. Apparently a lot of people relate to that.

You didn't appreciate his lecture on the plague of "tolerance" destroying American society?

[jaklewein]

I don't remember being pissed about it, but I do recall being very concerned that we'd overspent for a player like Lee for too long a period of time and that it would come back to bite us, which happened.

I tend to believe that it was understood by all parties that the last couple years of Lee's contract were going to hurt.  I think a conscious decision was made that his production in years 1-3 might very well put the club over the top, and that was worth whatever they'd be stuck with on the flipside.  

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

You didn't appreciate his lecture on the plague of "tolerance" destroying American society?

It was intolerable, no?

[Bench]

It was intolerable, no?

On just about every level.

[Mr. Happy]

I tend to believe that it was understood by all parties that the last couple years of Lee's contract were going to hurt.  I think a conscious decision was made that his production in years 1-3 might very well put the club over the top, and that was worth whatever they'd be stuck with on the flipside.  

That had to be it, but if the last years of Lee's contract were going to "hurt," and they did, just imagine the pain the Halos are going to be in for the last years of Pujol's ridiculously long contract!

[MusicMan]

That had to be it, but if the last years of Lee's contract were going to "hurt," and they did, just imagine the pain the Halos are going to be in for the last years of Pujol's ridiculously long contract!

And in time for us to compete in that division!

[JackAstro]

Count me among those who really enjoyed Carlos Lee as an Astro, contract notwithstanding. Hasta luego, Flapjack.

[Mr. Happy]

Count me among those who really enjoyed Carlos Lee as an Astro, contract notwithstanding. Hasta luego, Flapjack.

+1

[Reuben]

+1

Me too. I feel like many people hold the contract against him (it's a tendency I wrestle with in regard to lots of players, or rather modern players in general). No, he wasn't "worth" $16mil a year (whatever it averaged out to) because he wasn't a complete, well-rounded player, but teams always have to "overpay" to get the free agents they want/need- that's just the way it works with high-level, consistent players. Lee did what he was supposed to do. Yes, he declined the last 2 years, but like jaklewein said above, it was pretty much a given that the last couple years weren't going to be as valuable as the first 3-4. That's just the nature of signing big-ticket free agents.

It's not Lee's fault Drayton and Purpura gave him so much money. He did what everyone should've expected him to do, hitting-wise, and in my opinion he was a good Astro. One of my favorite to watch hit with two outs and a man on 2nd.

[Mr. Happy]

Me too. I feel like many people hold the contract against him (it's a tendency I wrestle with in regard to lots of players, or rather modern players in general). No, he wasn't "worth" $16mil a year (whatever it averaged out to) because he wasn't a complete, well-rounded player, but teams always have to "overpay" to get the free agents they want/need- that's just the way it works with high-level, consistent players. Lee did what he was supposed to do. Yes, he declined the last 2 years, but like jaklewein said above, it was pretty much a given that the last couple years weren't going to be as valuable as the first 3-4. That's just the nature of signing big-ticket free agents.

It's not Lee's fault Drayton and Purpura gave him so much money. He did what everyone should've expected him to do, hitting-wise, and in my opinion he was a good Astro. One of my favorite to watch hit with two outs and a man on 2nd.

+1 And one of the best two strike hitters I have ever seen. I haven't looked at any stats to back that up, but my anecdotal memory certainly has him putting balls in play with two strikes.

[Mr. Happy]

+1 And one of the best two strike hitters I have ever seen. I haven't looked at any stats to back that up, but my anecdotal memory certainly has him putting balls in play with two strikes.

I don't have any comparison stats for other players, but Lee's BA with two strikes for his career is .226, which is pretty good since hitters who fall to two strikes hit for a much lower BA than when the hitter is ahead in the count. For example, Lee's career BA ahead in the count is .307, while his BA behind in the count drops to .246.

[chuck]

He paid some immediate dividends for the Marlins.

[jbm]

He paid some immediate dividends for the Marlins.

Saw that.  Good for him

[Mr. Happy]

He paid some immediate dividends for the Marlins.

That's much more than Gaby Sanchez was producing. He was very instrumental in the 4-0 win, and the Fish, who are in a division that is ripe for the taking because I still don't believe in the steM, need to start stringing together some W's fast because time is of the essence here at the midway point.