Author Topic: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12  (Read 16780 times)

EasTexAstro

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some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« on: June 07, 2012, 07:08:26 pm »
I'll try to comment
It's my estimation that every man ever got a statue made of 'em was one kinda sombitch or another.

Ron Brand

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2012, 07:09:06 pm »
I don't believe it, but I just saw Happ fool a batter for strike three.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2012, 07:10:01 pm »
You beat me by a hair. We'll use your thread. Here are the lineups:

SSRafael Furcal
RFCarlos Beltran
LFMatt Holliday
1BAllen Craig
3BDavid Freese
CYadier Molina
2BTyler Greene
CFShane Robinson
PLance Lynn

CF Jordan Schafer 
2B Jose Altuve 
SS Jed Lowrie 
LF Fernando Martinez 
1B Brett Wallace 
3B Chris Johnson 
RF Brian Bogusevic 
C Chris Snyder 
P J.A. Happ 
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EasTexAstro

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2012, 07:13:28 pm »
Happ gets the first 3. Give me a few to get all this together
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EasTexAstro

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2012, 07:14:12 pm »
You beat me by a hair. We'll use your thread. Here are the lineups:

SSRafael Furcal
RFCarlos Beltran
LFMatt Holliday
1BAllen Craig
3BDavid Freese
CYadier Molina
2BTyler Greene
CFShane Robinson
PLance Lynn

CF Jordan Schafer 
2B Jose Altuve 
SS Jed Lowrie 
LF Fernando Martinez 
1B Brett Wallace 
3B Chris Johnson 
RF Brian Bogusevic 
C Chris Snyder 
P J.A. Happ 


Thanks
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2012, 07:14:54 pm »
Lynn has a funky slot and wrist snap but it's effective.
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EasTexAstro

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2012, 07:15:00 pm »
Schreefer Ks

1 out, btm 1st
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austro

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2012, 07:16:15 pm »
Apparently we were so hard on Jaime Garcia that he wound up on the DL.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
Up and down the M1 in some luminous yo-yo toy
But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
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EasTexAstro

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2012, 07:17:35 pm »
After JD and Brownie talks about how rarely Altuve swings and misses, Altuve swings and misses twice for K 2
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2012, 07:17:58 pm »
Lowrie!
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EasTexAstro

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2012, 07:18:27 pm »
Lowrie finds the boxes.

1-0 Astros
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2012, 07:18:43 pm »
Lynn has a funky slot and wrist snap but it's effective.

You're right. I don't understand how he gets so much speed on the pitch because he short-arms it. He must be very strong.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2012, 07:19:38 pm »
After JD and Brownie talks about how rarely Altuve swings and misses, Altuve swings and misses twice for K 2

They do that a lot. It gets annoying.
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EasTexAstro

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2012, 07:20:22 pm »
Grounder to ss makes it 3 down.

end of 1st, 1-0 Astros
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EasTexAstro

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2012, 07:22:27 pm »
You're right. I don't understand how he gets so much speed on the pitch because he short-arms it. He must be very strong.

After my shoulder was ripped apart, I short armed my throws for better speed than I have ever had before. IMO, it leads to ruining your arm very quickly. Not a good form.
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EasTexAstro

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2012, 07:24:31 pm »
Happ goes full count to Craig and gets the K

1 down in the top 2nd
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2012, 07:25:35 pm »
Happ gets another K for out #2
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2012, 07:26:11 pm »
Who IS this JA Happ guy?
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EasTexAstro

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2012, 07:27:01 pm »
Molina flies to LF for out 3.

after 1 and a half, Astros up with a 1-0 lead.
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EasTexAstro

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2012, 07:27:35 pm »
Who IS this JA Happ guy?

anti-mr. happy


shhhh
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2012, 07:28:55 pm »
anti-mr. happy


shhhh

I'm really his biggest fan when he's throwing like he has so far this season for the most part.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2012, 07:29:03 pm »
Some mighty fine pitching there J.A.

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2012, 07:30:18 pm »
Hell yeah. Get your pitch, Wallace.
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EasTexAstro

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2012, 07:31:06 pm »
Wallace with a triple] double
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2012, 07:31:35 pm »
That was some pretty impressive late action on the 1-2 pitch to Wallace. Impressive. Just as impressive was  Wallace's turn on an inside pitch.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2012, 07:31:42 pm »
Some mighty fine pitching there J.A.

Hush.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2012, 07:32:16 pm »
Wallace is probably making them rethink hard and inside

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2012, 07:32:24 pm »
Nuts. Off to work again, heavy schedule this week but Fuck The Jakes, it's 2-0!
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2012, 07:33:07 pm »
CJ gets the RBI double to RF

2-0 Astros

0 outs. BTM 2nd
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2012, 07:33:59 pm »
CJ has been impressive taking pitches and in going with the pitch. Really good ABs.
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EasTexAstro

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2012, 07:34:23 pm »
Lynn has some nice pitches
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EasTexAstro

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2012, 07:35:13 pm »
Bogey Ks swinging. 1 out
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2012, 07:36:16 pm »
Carlos Correa is in the booth with Milo.
Everyone's talking, few of them know
The rest are pretending, they put on a show
And if there's a message I guess this is it
Truth isn't easy, the easy part's shit

EasTexAstro

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2012, 07:37:07 pm »
Snyder takes the off speed to LF.

firs tand third, 1 out, btm 2nd, 2-0 Astros
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2012, 07:38:11 pm »
CJ has been impressive taking pitches and in going with the pitch. Really good ABs.

With the power he's got, Johnson becoming even just a bit more selective would make him much more of a threat.

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2012, 07:39:26 pm »
Carlos Correa is in the booth with Milo.

What an incredible day for a 17-year-old kid.
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EasTexAstro

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2012, 07:39:42 pm »
Happ fouls the squeeze play foul for a K

out 2
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2012, 07:42:23 pm »
Schafer takes a five pitch walk (should have been 4 pitch, IMO) to load the bases for Altuve
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2012, 07:42:53 pm »
Milo is pretty much asking him if he's met every Latin ballplayer he can think of. It's like a baseball Joe Franklin show.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #39 on: June 07, 2012, 07:44:09 pm »
What an incredible day for a 17-year-old kid.

He is extremely well poised for a 17 year old.
Everyone's talking, few of them know
The rest are pretending, they put on a show
And if there's a message I guess this is it
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EasTexAstro

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #40 on: June 07, 2012, 07:44:10 pm »
Altuve Ks with the bases loaded.

2-0 Astros after 2
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #41 on: June 07, 2012, 07:45:22 pm »
That AB by Altuve shows me that he is not quite there yet. He swung at some pitches that he couldn't hit and took a pitch that he could. He can get even better than he is at  the plate.
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EasTexAstro

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #42 on: June 07, 2012, 07:45:25 pm »
He is extremely well poised for a 17 year old.

+1

What a great kid from a great family and great community
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #43 on: June 07, 2012, 07:46:21 pm »
I'm glad I started Dickey, because my hitters are Amber Waves tonight.
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EasTexAstro

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #44 on: June 07, 2012, 07:47:03 pm »
That AB by Altuve shows me that he is not quite there yet. He swung at some pitches that he couldn't hit and took a pitch that he could. He can get even better than he is at  the plate.

I agree to a point. That strike he took was high in the zone for him. He might not have been able to do much with it.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #45 on: June 07, 2012, 07:47:42 pm »
Milo is pretty much asking him if he's met every Latin ballplayer he can think of. It's like a baseball Joe Franklin show.

DoRay tried to ask a couple of baseball type questions but Milo just wants to talk about Puerto Rican  ball players.
Everyone's talking, few of them know
The rest are pretending, they put on a show
And if there's a message I guess this is it
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EasTexAstro

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #46 on: June 07, 2012, 07:49:22 pm »
Happ gives up a single as I am talking to Mrs ETA
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #47 on: June 07, 2012, 07:49:38 pm »
So here we fucking go again...a walk, a single and two doubles yields 1 fucking run.  Pitiful.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #48 on: June 07, 2012, 07:52:18 pm »
So here we fucking go again...a walk, a single and two doubles yields 1 fucking run.  Pitiful.

This is getting old.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #49 on: June 07, 2012, 07:52:52 pm »
I agree to a point. That strike he took was high in the zone for him. He might not have been able to do much with it.

I thought that it was a strike.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #50 on: June 07, 2012, 07:55:00 pm »
Come on, Happ. Bear down.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #51 on: June 07, 2012, 07:55:00 pm »
Robinson batting. Happ takes him to 2-2...couple of fouls, cat crawls on the computer...couple of tosses to 1st....a few fouls...goes to 3-2 on a check swing....walk



runners at 1st and 2nd wih no outs for Lynn
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #52 on: June 07, 2012, 07:56:41 pm »
I thought that it was a strike.

Not arguing the strike, just saying it was high in the zone for him to handle unless he was looking for it. A popup wouldn't have been better.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #53 on: June 07, 2012, 07:57:30 pm »
So the Cards equal that one run with a  routine single and a bunt.  That's the difference between good teams and bad teams. 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #54 on: June 07, 2012, 07:58:56 pm »
Sac bunt and bunt hit gives the cards a run and runners at 1st and 3rd with one out

2-1 Astros

1 out, top of 3rd
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #55 on: June 07, 2012, 07:59:49 pm »
And just like that. Tie game.
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The rest are pretending, they put on a show
And if there's a message I guess this is it
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #56 on: June 07, 2012, 08:00:13 pm »
Correction...the Cards get TWO runs on a single and a bunt. 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

EasTexAstro

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #57 on: June 07, 2012, 08:00:49 pm »
Sac fly to RF gets a tie game.

2-2, top of 3rd, runner at first, 2 out
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #58 on: June 07, 2012, 08:01:17 pm »
Correction...the Cards get TWO runs on a single and a bunt. 

Right. Two total bases hitting yields 2 runs. For us, 5 total bases hitting yields 1 run.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #59 on: June 07, 2012, 08:01:25 pm »
Three or four more extra base hits for the Astros and they  might be able to push the go ahead run across.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #60 on: June 07, 2012, 08:02:09 pm »
Walk to Holliday...runners at 1st and 2nd
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #61 on: June 07, 2012, 08:05:39 pm »
Happ nibbling

Snyder should make a visit
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #62 on: June 07, 2012, 08:06:57 pm »
Broken bat fly for a single

3-2 Cards
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #63 on: June 07, 2012, 08:07:38 pm »
Come on, Happ. He can't seem to pitch from the stretch.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #64 on: June 07, 2012, 08:08:21 pm »
Dink, dink, dink, beatyourass.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #65 on: June 07, 2012, 08:09:14 pm »
..and a K on Freeze.

Going to the bottom of 3rd, 3-2 not the astros
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #66 on: June 07, 2012, 08:10:02 pm »
Picked wrong again...Peavy's losing, Price is winning.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #67 on: June 07, 2012, 08:15:37 pm »
Sorry...gotta leave

still 3-2 cards after 3
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #68 on: June 07, 2012, 08:16:32 pm »
Apparently, what's important to the Astro hitters is that they take the belt high fastballs and swing at the ones over their head and the curveballs that bounce.  I can hear Ted Williams's head roll over in his freezer.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #69 on: June 07, 2012, 08:18:14 pm »
Apparently, what's important to the Astro hitters is that they take the belt high fastballs and swing at the ones over their head and the curveballs that bounce.  I can hear Ted Williams's head roll over in his freezer.

How this team came within hailing distance of .500 in May is one of the world's great mysteries.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #70 on: June 07, 2012, 08:22:56 pm »
How this team came within hailing distance of .500 in May is one of the world's great mysteries.

The team is 6-19 on the road and is going out on a nine game trip.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #71 on: June 07, 2012, 08:25:11 pm »
Happ bears down with no further damage.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #72 on: June 07, 2012, 08:28:08 pm »
How this team came within hailing distance of .500 in May is one of the world's great mysteries.

2011 Pirates are the template.

Everybody needs to slow down and remember what is going on - this was a 56 win team last year, and it's a 65-70 win team this year. Just having the confidence to feel they can stay in a game or come back is a giant leap from last season. They are not good. It's going to be a while. If you're going to get any appreciation from this team, it's going to be small things and big-picture stuff, not some overnight erasure of how far down they've fallen.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #73 on: June 07, 2012, 08:35:07 pm »
And when I say 'everybody,' I mean the goddamn voices in my head that refuse to shut the hell up.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #74 on: June 07, 2012, 08:36:04 pm »
2011 Pirates are the template.

Everybody needs to slow down and remember what is going on - this was a 56 win team last year, and it's a 65-70 win team this year. Just having the confidence to feel they can stay in a game or come back is a giant leap from last season. They are not good. It's going to be a while. If you're going to get any appreciation from this team, it's going to be small things and big-picture stuff, not some overnight erasure of how far down they've fallen.

I agree. Must maintain proper perspective.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #75 on: June 07, 2012, 08:37:24 pm »
I agree. Must maintain proper perspective.

That doesn't make 6-19 look any better though. Ouch.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #76 on: June 07, 2012, 08:37:38 pm »
2011 Pirates are the template.

Everybody needs to slow down and remember what is going on - this was a 56 win team last year, and it's a 65-70 win team this year. Just having the confidence to feel they can stay in a game or come back is a giant leap from last season. They are not good. It's going to be a while. If you're going to get any appreciation from this team, it's going to be small things and big-picture stuff, not some overnight erasure of how far down they've fallen.
I'm sure my this isn't shared by many, but they aren't that different than last year, IMO.  They continue to do a lot of little shit wrong, and find ways to lose.  Maybe it is still youth, maybe not, but it gets tiresome sometimes.  The main improvement and bright spot this year is the pitching overall, mainly a better pen.  

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #77 on: June 07, 2012, 08:40:40 pm »
I'm sure my this isn't shared by many, but they aren't that different than last year, IMO.  They continue to do a lot of little shit wrong, and find ways to lose.  Maybe it is still youth, maybe not, but it gets tiresome sometimes.  The main improvement and bright spot this year is the pitching overall, mainly a better pen.  

You're not altogether wrong. In my opinion, I see 65 wins when it is all said and done.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #78 on: June 07, 2012, 08:41:44 pm »
I'm sure my this isn't shared by many, but they aren't that different than last year, IMO.  They continue to do a lot of little shit wrong, and find ways to lose.  Maybe it is still youth, maybe not, but it gets tiresome sometimes.  The main improvement and bright spot this year is the pitching overall, mainly a better pen.  

They're getting more out of the 2B/SS, less from the OF, I think. Offense overall is up, starters are rockier. They have a better attitude.

They're going to do a lot of little shit wrong, they're the youngest team in baseball.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #79 on: June 07, 2012, 08:45:21 pm »
I'll have to check Happ's stats, but it sure appears that he labors with men on base and pitching from the stretch.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #80 on: June 07, 2012, 08:47:15 pm »
I'll have to check Happ's stats, but it sure appears that he labors with men on base and pitching from the stretch.

Which naturally leads me to the line of, "Do they all, like the way batters hit better with the bases loaded?" I have no idea.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #81 on: June 07, 2012, 08:49:27 pm »
Which naturally leads me to the line of, "Do they all, like the way batters hit better with the bases loaded?" I have no idea.

But I mean he seems to change his delivery  when he comes from the stretch.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #82 on: June 07, 2012, 08:50:56 pm »
But I mean he seems to change his delivery  when he comes from the stretch.

Oh, I don't doubt that he's worse, for whatever reason. Now I'm wondering what the normal amount of worse is, to compare him to.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #83 on: June 07, 2012, 08:51:16 pm »
My point is simply that the team is so bad it is remarkable that they've won as many games as they have. They have very few players that would play on a decent team. Guys that no one else wants look like superstars relative to the rest of the roster. And they do all sorts of little stuff wrong - the bad defense in the outfield, Altuve's continual WTF fielding, can't bunt, can't throw anyone out. I was astounded they got that runner out in the brief rundown between third and home the other day. The fact that they have better than 20 wins a third of the way through the season really surprises me.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #84 on: June 07, 2012, 08:51:46 pm »
I'll have to check Happ's stats, but it sure appears that he labors with men on base and pitching from the stretch.
That's a good observation.  It may not be mechanical though, it might just be that he tends to lose confidence under pressure.

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #85 on: June 07, 2012, 08:53:20 pm »
That's a good observation.  It may not be mechanical though, it might just be that he tends to lose confidence under pressure.

He definitely doesn't have the same command when there are men on base, whatever the reason.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #86 on: June 07, 2012, 08:54:42 pm »
My point is simply that the team is so bad it is remarkable that they've won as many games as they have. They have very few players that would play on a decent team. Guys that no one else wants look like superstars relative to the rest of the roster. And they do all sorts of little stuff wrong - the bad defense in the outfield, Altuve's continual WTF fielding, can't bunt, can't throw anyone out. I was astounded they got that runner out in the brief rundown between third and home the other day. The fact that they have better than 20 wins a third of the way through the season really surprises me.

The counter to that is that no matter how bad you are, it's really, really hard to lose 100 games. A lot has to fall against you. Bad teams can linger in that 65-72 win area for a long time.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #87 on: June 07, 2012, 08:54:55 pm »
My point is simply that the team is so bad it is remarkable that they've won as many games as they have. They have very few players that would play on a decent team. Guys that no one else wants look like superstars relative to the rest of the roster. And they do all sorts of little stuff wrong - the bad defense in the outfield, Altuve's continual WTF fielding, can't bunt, can't throw anyone out. I was astounded they got that runner out in the brief rundown between third and home the other day. The fact that they have better than 20 wins a third of the way through the season really surprises me.
I don't agree that their lineup sucks as much as you are saying.  I do however think the whole is way less than the sum of the parts.  

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #88 on: June 07, 2012, 08:58:04 pm »
I think I'm just taking the long way to say that it's not so much the record, it's whether or not they're learning anything. This year.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #89 on: June 07, 2012, 09:04:02 pm »
Oh, I don't doubt that he's worse, for whatever reason. Now I'm wondering what the normal amount of worse is, to compare him to.

MOST PITCHERS ARE A LITTLE WORSE, BUT I suspect that Happ is much worse.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #90 on: June 07, 2012, 09:12:34 pm »
MOST PITCHERS ARE A LITTLE WORSE, BUT I suspect that Happ is much worse.

I just checked Happ's stats. When the bases are empty, his ERA is 1.65. When there's a runner on 1B, it jumps to 6.43. That is a huge difference.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #91 on: June 07, 2012, 09:14:06 pm »
I don't agree that their lineup sucks as much as you are saying.  I do however think the whole is way less than the sum of the parts.  

I'm not going to go Noe on you and argue this to the death but who would play for any average major league team? Lowrie, maybe; Altuve, maybe; Carlos, maybe. This team has shockingly little major league talent among position players. AND, as you say, the whole is less than the sum of the parts.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #92 on: June 07, 2012, 09:15:02 pm »
Nice play by Wallace on Beltran.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #93 on: June 07, 2012, 09:15:11 pm »
I just checked Happ's stats. When the bases are empty, his ERA is 1.65. When there's a runner on 1B, it jumps to 6.43. That is a huge difference.

It is, and I don't doubt your conclusion, but I'd like to know how far off the norm he is for those situations. Stats in a vacuum leave me wanting more.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #94 on: June 07, 2012, 09:16:58 pm »
I'm not going to go Noe on you and argue this to the death but who would play for any average major league team? Lowrie, maybe; Altuve, maybe; Carlos, maybe. This team has shockingly little major league talent among position players. AND, as you say, the whole is less than the sum of the parts.

This is true. That's how far down they've fallen. I want to watch them get back up.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #95 on: June 07, 2012, 09:18:33 pm »
It is, and I don't doubt your conclusion, but I'd like to know how far off the norm he is for those situations. Stats in a vacuum leave me wanting more.

I'll take a look at Wandy..
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #96 on: June 07, 2012, 09:20:06 pm »
I'll take a look at Wandy..

When I get home I'll look for league averages and see if I can find something historical.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #97 on: June 07, 2012, 09:21:49 pm »
I'm not going to go Noe on you and argue this to the death but who would play for any average major league team? Lowrie, maybe; Altuve, maybe; Carlos, maybe. This team has shockingly little major league talent among position players. AND, as you say, the whole is less than the sum of the parts.

Altuve, Lowrie, Schaefer, Lee and Castro would all start for the Nationals.

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #98 on: June 07, 2012, 09:22:36 pm »
I'm not going to go Noe on you and argue this to the death but who would play for any average major league team? Lowrie, maybe; Altuve, maybe; Carlos, maybe. This team has shockingly little major league talent among position players. AND, as you say, the whole is less than the sum of the parts.
Average lineups?  I've seen the Pirates lineup, and the Mets, and the Dodgers.  Maybe the Nationals.  You don't have to have individually great talent to play as an average club.  I really can't single out any of the parts and say "there's a major liability.".

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #99 on: June 07, 2012, 09:23:52 pm »
I'll take a look at Wandy..

Wandy has an ERA of 1.35 with noone on and an ERA of 1.33 with a runner on 1B.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #100 on: June 07, 2012, 09:24:35 pm »
I'm not going to go Noe on you and argue this to the death but who would play for any average major league team? Lowrie, maybe; Altuve, maybe; Carlos, maybe. This team has shockingly little major league talent among position players. AND, as you say, the whole is less than the sum of the parts.

Lowrie is a good starter on most teams. Past that,                       .

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #101 on: June 07, 2012, 09:25:49 pm »
Was Mills expecting Carpenter to go a lot longer?  The abysmal trouble he had with the eight and nine hitters could have been a clue.

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #102 on: June 07, 2012, 09:28:57 pm »
Cruz stepped it up in a tough spot.

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #103 on: June 07, 2012, 09:29:30 pm »
Average lineups?  I've seen the Pirates lineup, and the Mets, and the Dodgers.  Maybe the Nationals.  You don't have to have individually great talent to play as an average club.  I really can't single out any of the parts and say "there's a major liability.".

You're kidding, right? Bogusevic is subpar talent. The jury is still out on Schreefer and JD Martinez. CJ is playing much better this season, but he's not far removed from that category if he's out of it.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #104 on: June 07, 2012, 09:34:27 pm »
I just checked Happ's stats. When the bases are empty, his ERA is 1.65. When there's a runner on 1B, it jumps to 6.43. That is a huge difference.
2012 stats

Bases Empty:

Happ: .293 .365 .514
Wandy: .297 .342 .488

Men on:

Happ: .254 .301 .412
Wandy: .211 .248 .398
You may ask yourself, "How do I work this?"

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #105 on: June 07, 2012, 09:34:57 pm »
You're kidding, right? Bogusevic is subpar talent. The jury is still out on Schreefer and JD Martinez. CJ is playing much better this season, but he's not far removed from that category if he's out of it.
No, I'm not kidding.  We are talking average lineups.  Shafer is far from a liability as a CF.  Martinez has had a lot of nice ABs for the club.  Maybe less than average overall, but not a liability by any stretch.  Bogey maybe, but I like his defense.  He is not crap by any means.  

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #106 on: June 07, 2012, 09:39:55 pm »
Wandy has an ERA of 1.35 with noone on and an ERA of 1.33 with a runner on 1B.

Bud's bases empty ERA is 0.75. His ERA with a runner on 1B is 4.50, which is high too.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #107 on: June 07, 2012, 09:40:53 pm »
Bud's bases empty ERA is 0.75. His ERA with a runner on 1B is 4.50, which is high too.
How does one have an ERA for bases empty, or a runner on first?

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #108 on: June 07, 2012, 09:41:08 pm »
...ghan...paging Arky Vaughan...
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #109 on: June 07, 2012, 09:41:40 pm »
How does one have an ERA for bases empty, or a runner on first?

For those splendid solo home runs.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #110 on: June 07, 2012, 09:46:08 pm »
Bud's bases empty ERA is 0.75. His ERA with a runner on 1B is 4.50, which is high too.

This begs for some real investigation. What are the questions?

How bad, relatively, is Happ's pitching with men on?

Is there a pattern?

What is the league normal ERA or other measurement for expected outcomes in situations?

How does Happ differ from those?

Do such differences matter, or are they too small or outweighed by something else?
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #111 on: June 07, 2012, 09:47:25 pm »
Wandy has an ERA of 1.35 with noone on and an ERA of 1.33 with a runner on 1B.
Are these real stats?  Isn't the first one just HR/9IP?  And how do pitching changes affect the second stat?  (I know Wandy is a starter, but the math should generalize, no?)
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #112 on: June 07, 2012, 09:58:04 pm »
Are these real stats?  Isn't the first one just HR/9IP?  And how do pitching changes affect the second stat?  (I know Wandy is a starter, but the math should generalize, no?)

Yes. Courtesy of mlb.com.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #113 on: June 07, 2012, 10:05:40 pm »
Are these real stats?  Isn't the first one just HR/9IP?  
Yeah, that must be what it is.  Seems like a bogus stat.  The slash line posted by Lefty makes more sense as a metric, but it doesn't support the conclusion that pitchers (at least those pitchers) perform way worse with runners on.

« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 10:07:40 pm by jbm »

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #114 on: June 07, 2012, 10:09:11 pm »
The team is 5th in the league in runs, and you guys are bitching about how bad the lineup is?

The team gives up 12 runs tonight, and you guys are bitching about how bad the lineup is??
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #115 on: June 07, 2012, 10:09:28 pm »
Yeah, that must be what it is.  Seems like a bogus stat.  The slash line posted by Lefty makes more sense as a metric, but it doesn't support the conclusion that pitchers perform way worse with runners on.



I disagree. Why are some pitchers far better with runners on base than others? It has meaning. It may be skewed or limited, but to say that it doesn't support the conclusion that some pitchers perform "way worse with runners on" is nonsense.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #116 on: June 07, 2012, 10:10:16 pm »
The team is 5th in the league in runs, and you guys are bitching about how bad the lineup is?

The team gives up 12 runs tonight, and you guys are bitching about how bad the lineup is??

Stop it. We have to have something to bitch about.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #117 on: June 07, 2012, 10:10:34 pm »
No, I'm not kidding.  We are talking average lineups.  Shafer is far from a liability as a CF.  Martinez has had a lot of nice ABs for the club.  Maybe less than average overall, but not a liability by any stretch.  Bogey maybe, but I like his defense.  He is not crap by any means.  

I think we're seeing the results of too many of these guys being rushed. Bogey didn't get near enough ABs after giving up pitching. Carpenter hasn't been pitching that long. JD, Altuve and Castro went through the bushes pretty quick.

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #118 on: June 07, 2012, 10:14:31 pm »
Correa is thinking he should have signed for more money.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #119 on: June 07, 2012, 10:15:05 pm »
The team is 5th in the league in runs, and you guys are bitching about how bad the lineup is?

The team gives up 12 runs tonight, and you guys are bitching about how bad the lineup is??

I don't think anyone's bitching and besides we started this discussion when the score was a good bit cozier.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #120 on: June 07, 2012, 10:27:29 pm »
I disagree. Why are some pitchers far better with runners on base than others? It has meaning. It may be skewed or limited, but to say that it doesn't support the conclusion that some pitchers perform "way worse with runners on" is nonsense.
After VB's post, I realized what they mean, or what I think they mean at least. ERA with no one on is described as "how many home runs you give up with no one on base per 27 times you record an out with no one on." ERA with a runner on first is "how many runs you give up on ABs with a runner on first per 27 times you record an out with a runner on first." Of course you are going to give up more runs with a runner on first when compared with no one on.  It will likely get worse for ERAs with runners on second and third.  Seems like the slash line makes more sense. 

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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #121 on: June 08, 2012, 07:37:44 am »
And the pitchers with a low ERA with a runner on first probably are great ground ball pitchers, inducing the force plays.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #122 on: June 11, 2012, 11:24:19 am »
And the pitchers with a low ERA with a runner on first probably are great ground ball pitchers, inducing the force plays.
ERA cannot be segregated out by situation ... you can do the math, but there is no sense in it.  ERA has to do with the way pitchers handle innings, not situations.  AVG or SLG or something in various situations *might* make sense, but there are a lot of variables not accounted for (thus requiring a very large sample size to guarantee randomness).  If a guy faces 5-8 batters with a runner in third, it makes a lot of difference who those batters were (for instance) ... never mind the fact that there is seldom a large enough sample size in that kind of situation to generate valid stats even without batter variability.  It is all nonsense.  Watch the game!!
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #123 on: June 11, 2012, 11:53:06 am »
ERA cannot be segregated out by situation ... you can do the math, but there is no sense in it.  ERA has to do with the way pitchers handle innings, not situations.  AVG or SLG or something in various situations *might* make sense, but there are a lot of variables not accounted for (thus requiring a very large sample size to guarantee randomness).  If a guy faces 5-8 batters with a runner in third, it makes a lot of difference who those batters were (for instance) ... never mind the fact that there is seldom a large enough sample size in that kind of situation to generate valid stats even without batter variability.  It is all nonsense.  Watch the game!!

VB: Of course you have to watch the game. You've taken a ball-peen hammer to a fine Swiss watch and gilded the lily on your point. The stat is somewhat deceiving, but I was merely using it to bolster my hunch (after having watched a lot of Happ's outings) that Happ is much worse out of the stretch than he is with no one on base.

Speaking from experience (and too much of it with traffic on the paths), it is harder to concentrate and make pitches out of the stretch, which is why pitchers shouldn't do that until they have to do so, i.e., when someone is on 1B or 2B. You're splitting concentration between the baserunner and the hitter. I believe that pitching from the stretch can alter your mechanics slightly and cost you a critical few inches on a pitch that can make all the difference in the world. Why the practice is today to have relievers, who, unlike the old days, often come into games with nobody on base to pitch from the stretch is beyond dumb in my opinion--but it is something being taught in little league today. If you got an advantage from pitching out of the stretch, even starting pitchers would do so all of the time. I sure as hell would have. I needed every inch I could muster, and then some. Okay. Old crotchety fucker off of his soap box.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #124 on: June 11, 2012, 02:41:22 pm »
VB: Of course you have to watch the game. You've taken a ball-peen hammer to a fine Swiss watch and gilded the lily on your point. The stat is somewhat deceiving, but I was merely using it to bolster my hunch (after having watched a lot of Happ's outings) that Happ is much worse out of the stretch than he is with no one on base.

Speaking from experience (and too much of it with traffic on the paths), it is harder to concentrate and make pitches out of the stretch, which is why pitchers shouldn't do that until they have to do so, i.e., when someone is on 1B or 2B. You're splitting concentration between the baserunner and the hitter. I believe that pitching from the stretch can alter your mechanics slightly and cost you a critical few inches on a pitch that can make all the difference in the world. Why the practice is today to have relievers, who, unlike the old days, often come into games with nobody on base to pitch from the stretch is beyond dumb in my opinion--but it is something being taught in little league today. If you got an advantage from pitching out of the stretch, even starting pitchers would do so all of the time. I sure as hell would have. I needed every inch I could muster, and then some. Okay. Old crotchety fucker off of his soap box.
All of that matches my notions, which I developed without any experience, so thanks.  And as for the watch repair, I am quite handy with a ball-peen hammer.  I waited around to see if anyone would take a more nuanced approach, but nobody did.  I *do* believe there are ways to compare pitchers with respect to how badly they are affected by men on base; I just do not think ERA can be used at all in that respect.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #125 on: June 11, 2012, 02:55:19 pm »
I waited around to see if anyone would take a more nuanced approach, but nobody did. 

The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. Maybe I'll get the time to look at it better, but this snowballed into something larger than a cursory look at B-R.
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Re: some game going on tongiht- 6-7-12
« Reply #126 on: June 11, 2012, 05:36:34 pm »
The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. Maybe I'll get the time to look at it better, but this snowballed into something larger than a cursory look at B-R.

Put it in your in-box, RB.
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