Tal's Hill

[Navin R Johnson]

Reading about "Bloggers Night" at Minute Maid Park I noted that Lunhow was asking fans different questions, 1 being what their opinion was of Tal's Hill.

Sounds like they are gauging how fans would react to them removing it.  Lets hope so, that thing is ridiculous.

[Fredia]

i agree. what does it contribute to the game other than an opportunity for a player to get hurt

[roadrunner]

i agree. what does it contribute to the game other than an opportunity for a player to get hurt

I think it's fun.  There have been some great catches up there.  The injury card is pointless.  Not one player has been hurt on it in the history of MMP. 

The flagpole in play can go,though.

[Navin R Johnson]

I could have sworn that somebody pulled a hammy or something making a play on the hill.  And the "injury card" isn't worthless, despite nobody(?) getting hurt yet.

[astrosfan76]

If they do remove the hill, do they move the fence in? Leaving the CF dimensions alone would look awkward without the hill.

[jbm]

I think it's fun.  There have been some great catches up there.  The injury card is pointless.  Not one player has been hurt on it in the history of MMP. 

The flagpole in play can go,though.

Agreed.  Flagpole is really stupid, hill is fine.

If anyone pulls a hammy, it is offset by no one ever crashing into the wall there.

[pots]

I could have sworn that somebody pulled a hammy or something making a play on the hill.

I don't remember anyone getting hurt.  A couple of spills, that's about it.

[moriartp]

If they do remove the hill, do they move the fence in? Leaving the CF dimensions alone would look awkward without the hill.

I'm also curious about that. How deep would CF be if they moved it in?

[Navin R Johnson]

http://climbingtalshill.com/2012/06/02/a-conversation-with-jeff-luhnow/

"One other topic that he touched on was the configuration of the ballpark, particularly Tal’s Hill. Although the majority of the writers thought the hill added character to the park and should stay as is, Luhnow seemed to be of the opinion that it was a foible that we would be better off without."

[Mr. Happy]

http://climbingtalshill.com/2012/06/02/a-conversation-with-jeff-luhnow/

"One other topic that he touched on was the configuration of the ballpark, particularly Tal’s Hill. Although the majority of the writers thought the hill added character to the park and should stay as is, Luhnow seemed to be of the opinion that it was a foible that we would be better off without."

I say leave it be. It adds charm and ambiance to the yard. It's distinctive.

[austro]

I say leave it be. It adds charm and ambiance to the yard. It's distinctive.

I agree.

[Navin R Johnson]

Schafer on the hill
http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120603&content_id=32694328&notebook_id=32702564&vkey=notebook_hou&c_id=hou
""I'm not too fond of that hill out there," Schafer said. "I hope they get rid of it next year. I feel like I could fall on my face."

"I just think it's a matter of time before someone gets hurt," Schafer said. "For me, it would be a shame to see somebody tear an ACL and be out for the year because they're running up a hill. It's something unique about our park, but I'd rather be healthy all year instead of run up a hill and tear an ACL."

[Ron Brand]

Schafer on the hill
http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120603&content_id=32694328&notebook_id=32702564&vkey=notebook_hou&c_id=hou
""I'm not too fond of that hill out there," Schafer said. "I hope they get rid of it next year. I feel like I could fall on my face."

"I just think it's a matter of time before someone gets hurt," Schafer said. "For me, it would be a shame to see somebody tear an ACL and be out for the year because they're running up a hill. It's something unique about our park, but I'd rather be healthy all year instead of run up a hill and tear an ACL."

If anyone's going to get hurt out there, it'll certainly be him.

[pots]

If anyone's going to get hurt out there, it'll certainly be him.

If they take out the hill, my money is he injures himself running into the wall

[Mr. Happy]

If they take out the hill, my money is he injures himself running into the wall

+1

[roadrunner]

If they take out the hill, my money is he injures himself running into the wall

There are plenty of ways to get injured in this sport.  (ridiculous analogy/ planes can crash so let's stop flying planes /end ridiculous analogy)

Leave the hill.

Someone needs to research all of the hills in the history of baseball stadiums and see how many (if any) were caused by a hill.  Crosley had one and Fenway had one at some point, right?

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I don't fucking care. I cared about moving to the AL, after that I quit caring about the shitting on history. Go team, root root root!!! fuck yeah!!

[Fredia]

makes sense somehow it should tie in going over to the dark side..just waiting for deputy ryan to be the next mascot. what ever go astros..my faith in you stands strong

[chuck]

Schafer's more likely to throw his back out coughing after a harsh toke than injure himself on the hill.

[Mr. Happy]

Schafer's more likely to throw his back out coughing after a harsh toke than injure himself on the hill.

Well played, sir.

[Gizzmonic]

I couldn't care less whether it stays or goes.  I'm not a fan of MMPUS' slapdash appropriations of other parks anyway.  I do think they should move the fence in if they get rid of the hill.

[Reuben]

I do think they should move the fence in if they get rid of the hill.

I disagree strongly with this. I think the massive CF is one of the defining characteristics of the park, and a nice counter-argument to the knee-jerk tendency to label it a bandbox.

[Mr. Happy]

I disagree strongly with this. I think the massive CF is one of the defining characteristics of the park, and a nice counter-argument to the knee-jerk tendency to label it a bandbox.

+1 It is the reason why the yard hasn't played like a bandbox. Pitchers have been successful there. You just have to know how to keep the ball down.

[Gizzmonic]

+1 It is the reason why the yard hasn't played like a bandbox. Pitchers have been successful there. You just have to know how to keep the ball down.

I'm sure putting the fence there will add a few more dingers, but in my (completely subjective) opinion the ball just dies out there anyway, especially in RCF.

[JackAstro]

I'll go ahead and be in the vocal minority: the hill is fucking stupid, and the flagpole is the single most idiotic thing in fair territory in all of MLB. Curve the fence in to the warning track and keep that crap out of the field of play.

[juliogotay]

I'll go ahead and be in the vocal minority: the hill is fucking stupid, and the flagpole is the single most idiotic thing in fair territory in all of MLB. Curve the fence in to the warning track and keep that crap out of the field of play.

I think I remember a batting cage being in left field in old Forbes Field.

[Bench]

... the flagpole is the single most idiotic thing in fair territory in all of MLB.

The are several cows to either side of the flagpole that disagree with you.

[sporadic]

I'll go ahead and be in the vocal minority: the hill is fucking stupid, and the flagpole is the single most idiotic thing in fair territory in all of MLB. Curve the fence in to the warning track and keep that crap out of the field of play.

Absofuckinglutely.  Not like many balls reach the hill anyway...HR to CF would still be one hell of a poke

[moriartp]

My personal hope is that the hill, the cows, and the train are all gone next season. Not necessarily in that order.

[sporadic]

My personal hope is that the hill, the cows, and the train are all gone next season. Not necessarily in that order.

unfortunatley I think they are taking the sac bunt with them...

[Mr. Happy]

I'll go ahead and be in the vocal minority: the hill is fucking stupid, and the flagpole is the single most idiotic thing in fair territory in all of MLB. Curve the fence in to the warning track and keep that crap out of the field of play.

Why is it stupid? Because the yard has distinctive character and isn't like other cookie-cutter yards? Please enlighten me.

[JackAstro]

The are several cows to either side of the flagpole that disagree with you.

See, good taste aside, i don't even care about that, because it doesn't affect a ball in play. I still can't wrap my head around the idea that they were deciding where to put these 3 flags in center, and someone chimed in that hey, maybe we should stick one of these giant fucking poles directly into the outfield. Why? Because fuck common sense, that's why.

[BudGirl]

My personal hope is that the hill, the cows, and the train are all gone next season. Not necessarily in that order.

I still don't understand why so many are bothered by the train.  Hell, let me honest, I can't figure out most of what you all piss and moan about here.

[JackAstro]

Why is it stupid? Because the yard has distinctive character and isn't like other cookie-cutter yards? Please enlighten me.

I'm of the opinion that borrowing design quirks from ballparks of the past is not the same thing as having distinctive character. Building your field off the side of an old train station is distinct character. Putting a hill into the middle of the field of play for no discernible reason other than "it's interesting" is roughly equivalent (to me) to adding a feature from a Putt Putt course. And if you're going to do that, I say go all in and put a windmill or a giant clown head, and work some bonuses into the ground rules.

[Gizzmonic]

I still don't understand why so many are bothered by the train.  Hell, let me honest, I can't figure out most of what you all piss and moan about here.

The Astros are about space, not trains.  Unless of course we're talking about notable Decepticon AstroTrain.

[moriartp]

The Astros are about space, not trains.

That pretty much sums it up for me. The Union Station connection is a silly thing to design the team's image around.

[chuck]

or a giant clown head

Wrigley had one but eventually Sosa retired.

[Texifornia]

unfortunatley I think they are taking the sac bunt with them...

...and the double-switch.

[Matt]

My personal hope is that the hill, the cows, and the train are all gone next season. Not necessarily in that order.

Can we at least replace the train with an old school rocket ship?

[EasTexAstro]

Can we at least replace the train with an old school rocket ship?

Could be worse: See Marlins

[Bench]

Could be worse: See Marlins

That thing is about as "distinct character" as it gets.

[Matt]

Could be worse: See Marlins

A throwback space age look would be pretty rad and original.

[JackAstro]

Wrigley had one but eventually Sosa retired.

I award you one Altuve.

[MusicMan]

Could be worse: See Marlins

FISHGOD is displeased with your insolence.

[Ty in Tampa]

...and the flagpole is the single most idiotic thing in fair territory in all of MLB.

The catwalks say hi.

[MusicMan]

The catwalks say hi.

As does Carlos Zambrano.

[sporadic]

Can we at least replace the train with an old school rocket ship?

I think that was on the agenda but MLB stepped in and decided the rocket ship should go to the Angels.

[strosrays]

If anyone's going to get hurt out there, it'll certainly be him.

"C'mon, Schreefer. A remote hillside, which evokes irrational fear of injury, and is rarely visited by anyone? On arable land, gets plenty of sunlight and (artificial) rain, and neither the Feds nor the Sinaloa Cowboys cartel know anything about it?  It's not exactly NoCal, Schreef, okay ... but let's think outside the box a little." - ~+~ (The Poster Formerly Known as 'Strosrays)

[David in Jackson]

I'll go ahead and be in the vocal minority: the hill is fucking stupid, and the flagpole is the single most idiotic thing in fair territory in all of MLB. Curve the fence in to the warning track and keep that crap out of the field of play.

Agree 100%.

[JimR]

I'll go ahead and be in the vocal minority: the hill is fucking stupid, and the flagpole is the single most idiotic thing in fair territory in all of MLB. Curve the fence in to the warning track and keep that crap out of the field of play.

you would have HATED Clark Field.

[Gizzmonic]

"C'mon, Schreefer. A remote hillside, which evokes irrational fear of injury, and is rarely visited by anyone? On arable land, gets plenty of sunlight and (artificial) rain, and neither the Feds nor the Sinaloa Cowboys cartel know anything about it?  It's not exactly NoCal, Schreef, okay ... but let's think outside the box a little." - ~+~ (The Poster Formerly Known as 'Strosrays)

This made me LOL. Big time.

[JackAstro]

you would have HATED Clark Field.

No, not at all... I should've mentioned that part. I actually love the older parks that were weird and quirky because they had to work within some geographic, budgetary or space restrictions. What I hate is building a brand new park with no restrictions, but choosing to co-opt those elements anyway.

So, Clark Field gets a thumbs up. If they had built a limestone cliff into the outfield at the Disch, that would've been dumb as shit.

[Waldo]

No, not at all... I should've mentioned that part. I actually love the older parks that were weird and quirky because they had to work within some geographic, budgetary or space restrictions. What I hate is building a brand new park with no restrictions, but choosing to co-opt those elements anyway.

So, Clark Field gets a thumbs up. If they had built a limestone cliff into the outfield at the Disch, that would've been dumb as shit.

FWIW I'm on your side.

[Mr. Happy]

No, not at all... I should've mentioned that part. I actually love the older parks that were weird and quirky because they had to work within some geographic, budgetary or space restrictions. What I hate is building a brand new park with no restrictions, but choosing to co-opt those elements anyway.

So, Clark Field gets a thumbs up. If they had built a limestone cliff into the outfield at the Disch, that would've been dumb as shit.

I see your point, and believe it or not, I now agree with you that they shouldn't have constructed the yard field the way that they did--it was ridiculous. However, I'm opposed to changing it after over ten years just because Schreefer is not a fan of Tal's Hill. Bourn was twice the CF that Schreefer will ever be, and he never bitched publicly to the best of my recollection. To me, Schreefer hasn't been on the team long enough to earn the right to bitch about anything, much less his own yard. He's lucky to be in the big leagues. If I was him, I'd work my ass off on getting my batting average above .280 and STFU.

[moriartp]

I see your point, and believe it or not, I now agree with you that they shouldn't have constructed the yard field the way that they did--it was ridiculous. However, I'm opposed to changing it after over ten years just because Schreefer is not a fan of Tal's Hill. Bourn was twice the CF that Schreefer will ever be, and he never bitched publicly to the best of my recollection. To me, Schreefer hasn't been on the team long enough to earn the right to bitch about anything, much less his own yard. He's lucky to be in the big leagues. If I was him, I'd work my ass off on getting my batting average above .280 and STFU.

If the hill gets removed, it won't be because of Schafer's bitching. My understanding is that the new regime has been considering it since day one.

[chuck]

To me, Schreefer hasn't been on the team long enough to earn the right to bitch about anything, much less his own yard. He's lucky to be in the big leagues. If I was him, I'd work my ass off on getting my batting average above .280 and STFU.

He bitches after each and every called strikeout so I don't see why he wouldn't bitch about anything else he can think of. The sooner Springer or whoever takes over for that clown the happier I'll be.

[Andyzipp]

I see your point, and believe it or not, I now agree with you that they shouldn't have constructed the yard field the way that they did--it was ridiculous. However, I'm opposed to changing it after over ten years just because Schreefer is not a fan of Tal's Hill. Bourn was twice the CF that Schreefer will ever be, and he never bitched publicly to the best of my recollection. To me, Schreefer hasn't been on the team long enough to earn the right to bitch about anything, much less his own yard. He's lucky to be in the big leagues. If I was him, I'd work my ass off on getting my batting average above .280 and STFU.

The new GM doesn't like the hill.  Nothing to do with any player.

[geezerdonk]

The sooner Springer or whoever takes over for that clown the happier I'll be.

If Maxwell would bear down a little and quit being so impressed with himself, I think he could have the job. Can't wait for Springer to get his chance.

[Mr. Happy]

The new GM doesn't like the hill.  Nothing to do with any player.

He probably doesn't like it just because we call it "Tal's Hill." But, still, Schreefer should be seen and not heard about his own yard.

[Fredia]

maybe leave the hill but rename it

[juliogotay]

maybe leave the hill but rename it

Tal's Folly?

[jbm]

He probably doesn't like it just because we call it "Tal's Hill." But, still, Schreefer should be seen and not heard about his own yard.

It is hard for me to understand since I don't have a strong opinion on the thing, but it does seem odd that it was singled out as something that needed to be "studied and decided upon."  I don't recall the fowl poles, which evoke much stronger opinions in my experience, reaching that threshold.  Maybe they have and I just missed it.

[JimR]

He probably doesn't like it just because we call it "Tal's Hill."

Bingo

[Navin R Johnson]

, I'm opposed to changing it after over ten years just because Schreefer is not a fan of Tal's Hill. Bourn was twice the CF that Schreefer will ever be, and he never bitched publicly to the best of my recollection.

I can't really blame Schaffer, a reporter asked him a question and he answered it.  If they weren't talking about removing it, I doubt you ever hear word one from him on it.  I expect if Bourn were still here his answer would have been similar.  He never talked about it because nobody every asked him, to my knowledge at least.

[moriartp]

Tal's Folly?

You may be on to something here. If there's as much oil under Tal's Folly as Seward's, the Astros' payroll problems might be solved for years to come.

[BudGirl]

If Maxwell would bear down a little and quit being so impressed with himself, I think he could have the job. Can't wait for Springer to get his chance.

I'm not overly impressed with Maxwell in CF.

[Waldo]

It is hard for me to understand since I don't have a strong opinion on the thing, but it does seem odd that it was singled out as something that needed to be "studied and decided upon."  I don't recall the fowl poles, which evoke much stronger opinions in my experience, reaching that threshold.

Like 'em or not, the fowl poles generate advertising revenue; the hill does not.  Furthermore, I suspect that our hatred of the fowl poles puts us in the minority.  Most people probably don't care or think that they are clever.

[moriartp]

Like 'em or not, the fowl poles generate advertising revenue; the hill does not.  Furthermore, I suspect that our hatred of the fowl poles puts us in the minority.  Most people probably don't care or think that they are clever.

The elimination of the hot sauce packet races gives me hope that the fowl poles won't be around for long.

[juliogotay]

The elimination of the hot sauce packet races gives me hope that the fowl poles won't be around for long.

I would have thought those races were popular with fans. No?

[Andyzipp]

I would have thought those races were popular with fans. No?

They were, but Taco Bell dropped the sponsorship.

[Navin R Johnson]

Good.  Lets get s Houston themed Race now.  Niko Niko Gyro, Ninfas Fajita, St Arnold Beer Bottle & Spec's rabbit.

[Matt]

Good.  Lets get s Houston themed Race now.  Niko Niko Gyro, Ninfas Fajita, St Arnold Beer Bottle & Spec's rabbit.

A bowl of pho running around would be good too

[NeilT]

A bowl of pho running around would be good too

I hate to admit it, but i liked that stupid taco sauce race.

[astrosfan76]

Like 'em or not, the fowl poles generate advertising revenue; the hill does not. 

Yet

[Fredia]

lets get some giant armadillos, a sheriff, and someone weird from austin

[Reuben]

I'm not sure if I "get it", but that was actually pretty funny.

[Noe]

I have decided to build my own Tal's Hill in my backyard. I call it "Tally's Hill" because that is so baseball of me to do so. When we toss his rubber ball up the hill, my wiener dog loves to run up the hill and then back down with said prize. I call my dachshund "Bourney", again because that is so baseball of me to do so.

Next week, I'll tear the thing down and claim it was my right to do so because it's my backyard. I think that is how it works.

[Texifornia]

When they put the hill in, I rolled my eyes. There was no real reason for it, but Tal Smith wanted it so there it was.

Now, I think it should stay. Why?, because Tal Smith wanted it. That's how the elements of club and ballpark history get made. In 20 years, these ties to the past, especially the NL past may get more precious. Nobody will know who Tal Smith was if his hill is gone.

"Hey Dad, why do they call that 'Tal's Hill'?" "The guy's name was Tal. He was an important guy with the club back in the days of Bagwell and Biggio." "Oh yea, those guys were great, huh?" ....."Yea, they sure were".

[roadrunner]

When they put the hill in, I rolled my eyes. There was no real reason for it, but Tal Smith wanted it so there it was.

Now, I think it should stay. Why?, because Tal Smith wanted it. That's how the elements of club and ballpark history get made. In 20 years, these ties to the past, especially the NL past may get more precious. Nobody will know who Tal Smith was if his hill is gone.

"Hey Dad, why do they call that 'Tal's Hill'?" "The guy's name was Tal. He was an important guy with the club back in the days of Bagwell and Biggio." "Oh yea, those guys were great, huh?" ....."Yea, they sure were".

This.

I don't mind the uniforms changing because the uniform tradition (or lack thereof) was lost before I was even born, but I think MMP will be around for a long time.  Keep the Crawford Boxes.  Keep the facade.  Keep the hill.  Keep the train.  Actually I don't like the train, take that away.

[austro]

I have decided to build my own Tal's Hill in my backyard. I call it "Tally's Hill" because that is so baseball of me to do so. When we toss his rubber ball up the hill, my wiener dog loves to run up the hill and then back down with said prize. I call my dachshund "Bourney", again because that is so baseball of me to do so.

Next week, I'll tear the thing down and claim it was my right to do so because it's my backyard. I think that is how it works.

I hope Bourney doesn't pull a hammy before you tear the hill down.

[Texifornia]

  Actually I don't like the train, take that away.

Agreed. Some history should be wiped away.

[Fredia]

if you take the train away then a former train station becomes just a former train station.

[NeilT]

You're quoting Yogi aren't you?

[Fredia]

that would be quite an honor

[JimR]

When they put the hill in, I rolled my eyes. There was no real reason for it, but Tal Smith wanted it so there it was.

Now, I think it should stay. Why?, because Tal Smith wanted it. That's how the elements of club and ballpark history get made. In 20 years, these ties to the past, especially the NL past may get more precious. Nobody will know who Tal Smith was if his hill is gone.

"Hey Dad, why do they call that 'Tal's Hill'?" "The guy's name was Tal. He was an important guy with the club back in the days of Bagwell and Biggio." "Oh yea, those guys were great, huh?" ....."Yea, they sure were".

also back in the days of Nolan, JR and Jose Cruuuuuuz.

[Noe]

I hope Bourney doesn't pull a hammy before you tear the hill down.

Wiener dogs have a propensity to hurt their hind legs very easily. There is that fear, but I'm asking the doggie to play with pain and give his 110% to the game... or go home... errr... I'm not sure where he should go now that I think about it.

[Texifornia]

also back in the days of Nolan, JR and Jose Cruuuuuuz.

I don't know who that first one was but those other two were great!

[Mr. Happy]

I don't know who that first one was but those other two were great!

Even my sarc-meter went off here.

[Texifornia]

Even my sarc-meter went off here.

I'm calibrating my sarcasmitter. You're supposed to start with an easy one.