Bagwell to 3b?

[MusicMan]

Per Footer Tweet:

Lunhow: Carlos Lee can help the team the most at 1b. Brett Wallace and Chris Johnson to see PT at 3b during Spring Training.

[jbm]

Didn't St Louis draft him at third and move him to first? 

[Jacksonian]

Per Footer Tweet:

If he's going to make the 25-man he's got to contribute more than pinch hit and play 1b on the few days Carlos takes off I guess.

[Jacksonian]

Didn't St Louis draft him at third and move him to first? 

They drafted him to hit.

[Ron Brand]

Now that there is a little more of a crowd at 1B (Lee is a crowd all by himself) it makes sense to at least see if he can handle the position.

Damn. He sure did look like a hitter when he came over. I hope whatever it is that's fucking him up gets unfucked and soon.

[MusicMan]

Didn't St Louis draft him at third and move him to first? 

IIRC, there were approximately zero scouts that thought he could stick at 3b.

[jbm]

They drafted him to hit.

Well, I should have said that after drafting him to hit, they initially played him at third and moved him to first.  I just assumed that they concluded, while Luhnow was there, that he couldn't handle the position defensively.  Otherwise, why move him?  In sum, I assumed this was an idea that had already run its course.  

[VirtualBob]

IIRC, there were approximately zero scouts that thought he could stick at 3b.

It may boil down to whether CJ can play better as a backup 1B or BW can play better as a backup 3B.  Assuming, of course, that Paredes does not crash and burn (or get switched back to 2B to displace The Altuve).

[Ron Brand]

It may boil down to whether CJ can play better as a backup 1B or BW can play better as a backup 3B.  Assuming, of course, that Paredes does not crash and burn (or get switched back to 2B to displace The Altuve).

Either one of them is going to have to figure out how to hit. CJ doesn't have the upside that Wallace does, but both of them need everyday play to find out how this is going to end.

[sporadic]

Either one of them is going to have to figure out how to hit. CJ doesn't have the upside that Wallace does, but both of them need everyday play to find out how this is going to end.

while 90 runs sits on the bench?  no thank you.

[BUWebguy]

Baseball America looks at Brett Wallace at 3b...

Jim Callis, Sept. 2008:

Wallace doesn't have much speed or first-step quickness, but he does own a strong, accurate arm and reliable hands. He'll make the routine play, and what he lacks in lateral range he'll make up for with his production at the plate.

Cary Booher, Dec. 2008:

Defensively, he continued to work with his manager, the Cardinals' Ron Warner, who relentlessly hit him fungoes every day and believes he'll be just fine when Wallace sets up in a more athletic position.

Derrick Goold, Jan. 2009:

He has an average arm and surprisingly  sound footwork at third base. ... Some scouts say he's too stiff to stay at third for the long term, while his advocates say he makes the plays he can get to and could become an average defender with more coaching.

Jim Callis, April 2009:

After opening his Arizona State career as a first baseman, Wallace moved to the hot corner as a junior last spring. I asked several scouts about his defense at third base, and the initial response usually was, "He's better than you'd think." Then I'd ask, "But how good is he?" and the answer would range from adequate to below average.

A player can improve defensively at third base through sheer hard work. Wade Boggs and Robin Ventura are two examples of substandard third basemen who turned themselves into Gold Glovers. But Wallace is going to be limited. He has an average arm and he moves pretty well for a 6-foot-1, 245-pounder—but he's still a 6-foot-1, 245-pounder. He's not going to have much lateral range and he's not going to be adept at charging rollers.

Wallace can be a steady defender who makes plays on those balls he can reach. If he does that, he's going to have no problem hitting enough to be a mainstay for the Cardinals. Ideally, he'd play first base, but Pujols isn't going anywhere. Wallace wouldn't cover enough ground to play left field, so he's going to have to stay at third base.

Jim Shonerd, Dec. 2009:

The question mark with Wallace has always been defense. His hands and arm strength work at third base, but his lack of range points to an eventual move across the diamond to first.

No author listed, Feb. 2010:

He has the hands and arm strength to play third base. ... Though he has worked hard at third base, Wallace lacks the agility and athleticism for the position. Most scouts think he'll have to move across the diamond to first base. He's a below-average runner.

[Ron Brand]

while 90 runs sits on the bench?  no thank you.

I know. That's the problem. They have to start producing now, in order to earn that consistent playing time that they will need to continue developing. CJ is pretty close to being out of time in that regard, and a full season at AAA probably isn't going to make him significantly better. This is pretty much a big bag of If right now, with a lot less hope that it's going to be sorted out.

[sporadic]

I know. That's the problem. They have to start producing now, in order to earn that consistent playing time that they will need to continue developing. CJ is pretty close to being out of time in that regard, and a full season at AAA probably isn't going to make him significantly better. This is pretty much a big bag of If right now, with a lot less hope that it's going to be sorted out.

you are right, I am just sour on the both of them, Wallace more than CJ.  I would be more excited to have Carlos and Paredes on the corners and trade both Wallace and CJ for some low level talent...get some competition going in the lower levels and see what happens.

[VirtualBob]

you are right, I am just sour on the both of them, Wallace more than CJ.  I would be more excited to have Carlos and Paredes on the corners and trade both Wallace and CJ for some low level talent...get some competition going in the lower levels and see what happens.

Of course the problem is that the Astros are not the only team that has noticed the "production" at these key corner infield positions.  My projections for the IF this year are:

1B - Lee
2B - Altuve
SS - Lowrie
3B - Paredes
followed by several questions ...
If Marwin Gonzalez is not a complete flop in ST, I expect him to hold down a roster spot and get a few starts (and a lot of late defensive replacement innings) at SS.  He's still only 23 (in March), his glove is fine, and he hit pretty well at both Tennessee and Iowa last year.  And if he does flop, your Houston alAstros are really hurting when it comes to a backup SS.  Sanchez could barely field the position, and he is gone.  Diory Hernandez would do the least damage defensively, but other candidates for the roster spot are Matt Downs, Joe Thurston and Brian Bixler ... all of whom would be a step back from Sanchez ... or maybe Jonathan Villar, who is coming to big league camp.  I've got to believe they would rather have Villar start every day in Okietown though.
That leaves one spot to cover the corners in a backup role and serve as a bat off the bench.  If the 'stors can move Wallace & Johnson, look for Matt Downs to fill this role.  And he might fill it anyway.  My guess, though, is that it will go to CJ if he has a decent spring.  As noted, he has little or nothing to prove at AAA, and he is a decent fielder at 3B and adequate at 1B.  (Paredes becomes the default backup at 2B in this scenario.)  If CJ flounders and Wallace looks good at the plate, I could see them pressing him into service as a rarely-used backup at 3B, but my guess is that he shares regular playing time with Kody Hinze (1B & DH) in Oklahoma.  Jason Bourgeois is also a very long shot for the 6th IF slot, which would make Altuve the default backup at 3B, but I expect Boo to make it as an OF or not at all.

And for busriders who have stumbled into this thread, I see the most likely group at OKC to be ...
1B - Wallace/Hinze (with the other at DH)
2B - Bixler/Hernandez/Thurston in some combination with one of them possibly being released
SS - Villar
3B - Moore (or maybe Bixler/Thurston)
backup - Brandon Wikoff and possibly one of the AAAA stalwarts mentioned above.  I'd like to see Brandon start at 2B, but I doubt it will happen.  I think the best he can hope for is semi-regular PT at all three IF positions in hopes of beefing up his utilityman credentials.

ETA: I could see CJ starting the season at 3B here, too, but I could also see him DFA or traded for a bag of balls if he does not make the big club.

[jbm]

I have no idea what they will do, but based on what I saw of him at the end of the year, there is no need to move Villar to AAA.  His bat was struggling quite enough at AA. 

[moriartp]

I have no idea what they will do, but based on what I saw of him at the end of the year, there is no need to move Villar to AAA.  His bat was struggling quite enough at AA. 

I'd bet he winds up in Corpus again. Also wouldn't surprise me to see Paredes spend a while in OKC this season.

[VirtualBob]

I have no idea what they will do, but based on what I saw of him at the end of the year, there is no need to move Villar to AAA.  His bat was struggling quite enough at AA. 

You may be right.  And he is still only 21 in May, so a full year (or at least a first half) in AA may be in order.  On the other hand, scouts indicate his glove is ready now, and if his ETA in Houston is 2013, he may as well start learning against AAAA opponents in OKC as continue to work against mistake-prone prospects in CC.  And there is always Giovanni.  Of course, if the 'stros were to trade CJ for the rights to keep Marwin, that would make SS at the upper levels of the minors a little easier.
AAA - Gonzalez
AA - Villar
A+ - Mier
A - Orloff?
would probably work.  And the lack of significant talent pushing Orloff (unless Jon Merritt had a really good winter recovering from injury) makes your scenario of Villar staying at AA to start the season a little more likely.

[sporadic]

but I could also see him DFA or traded for a bag of balls if he does not make the big club.[/i]

Why does it matter if they make the big club or not?  given the likelihood that niether will be a key factor for future success (obvioulsy just an opinion), would the club not be better off getting as many warm bodies as possible for the two of them?  keep in mind I know jack shit about service time or options or how either effects a player's tradeability...I got you guys around to enlighten me on such things.  at this point it seems like a numbers game, the lower levels need more talent.  more talent creates more competition.  would the club not be better off with a couple of veteran leaders and guys like Paredes and Altuve around them until younger guys develop rather than hanging their hat on AAAA guys that may have some trade value?  at this point I figure they need to clear the pantry of expiring goods and restock.

[sporadic]

And the lack of significant talent pushing Orloff

Absolutely this.  If CJ or Wallace (or both) being shipped creates a more competitive atmosphere I am all for it. 

[VirtualBob]

Why does it matter if they make the big club or not?  given the likelihood that niether will be a key factor for future success (obvioulsy just an opinion), would the club not be better off getting as many warm bodies as possible for the two of them?  keep in mind I know jack shit about service time or options or how either effects a player's tradeability...I got you guys around to enlighten me on such things.  at this point it seems like a numbers game, the lower levels need more talent.  more talent creates more competition.  would the club not be better off with a couple of veteran leaders and guys like Paredes and Altuve around them until younger guys develop rather than hanging their hat on AAAA guys that may have some trade value?  at this point I figure they need to clear the pantry of expiring goods and restock.

My only point here was that if they decide to trade them, neither will command much on the market ... certainly not anything to create real "competition" among the best prospects.  I do not see either of them taking a roster spot from Paredes or Altuve.  

Someone suggested that Paredes may see time in AAA this year, but unless he really flames out, I doubt it.  What are they going to do?  Lose 106 games or something?  Let him play.

[Houston]

I'm guessing they audition Wallace at 2013 DH during interleague games this year. If he fails, he won't be on the team in September.

[VirtualBob]

Absolutely this.  If CJ or Wallace (or both) being shipped creates a more competitive atmosphere I am all for it. 

Competitive with Orloff is probably about what I meant with my just-posted talent.  This is not the same as competitive with DD Jr or even the likes of Meyer or Mier.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

My only point here was that if they decide to trade them, neither will command much on the market ... certainly not anything to create real "competition" among the best prospects.  I do not see either of them taking a roster spot from Paredes or Altuve.  

Someone suggested that Paredes may see time in AAA this year, but unless he really flames out, I doubt it.  What are they going to do?  Lose 106 games or something?  Let him play.

Paredes is also the most athletic player on this team, with the only possible exception being Bourgois.

[VirtualBob]

Paredes is also the most athletic player on this team, with the only possible exception being Bourgois.

Marwin Gonzalez for sure and maybe Jordan Schafer.

[sporadic]

My only point here was that if they decide to trade them, neither will command much on the market ... certainly not anything to create real "competition" among the best prospects.  I do not see either of them taking a roster spot from Paredes or Altuve.  

Someone suggested that Paredes may see time in AAA this year, but unless he really flames out, I doubt it.  What are they going to do?  Lose 106 games or something?  Let him play.

If they got no value they got no value...that is pretty much what I was looking for with all of my ramblings.  thanks!

[Houston]

Marwin Gonzalez for sure and maybe Jordan Schafer.

Cheech Schafer

[VirtualBob]

Oops ... just checked out the NRI list and noticed Sanchez is still around ... I guess he cleared waivers and re-signed a minor-league deal.  I can see him being the backup if they give up on Gonzalez and the starting SS in OKC if they keep Gonzalez.  I still figure Matt Downs is ahead of him in Houston, but if they do deal CJ and/or Wallace, Angel may even hang around as the 6th IF.  Downs can easily handle backup duties at 1B, and Sanchez is serviceable at the other positions.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Marwin Gonzalez for sure and maybe Jordan Schafer.

I've never seen Marwin play but will take your word for it.  I figured Schafer was 50/50 on whether he is still on the team at this point, depending on whether the league takes action on his extra-curricular activities.

[JimR]

Oops ... just checked out the NRI list and noticed Sanchez is still around ... I guess he cleared waivers and re-signed a minor-league deal.  I can see him being the backup if they give up on Gonzalez and the starting SS in OKC if they keep Gonzalez.  I still figure Matt Downs is ahead of him in Houston, but if they do deal CJ and/or Wallace, Angel may even hang around as the 6th IF.  Downs can easily handle backup duties at 1B, and Sanchez is serviceable at the other positions.

i liked Sanchez.

[VirtualBob]

i liked Sanchez.

Your qualifications dwarf mine, but I always saw him as barely adequate in the field.  I liked him at the plate though (mostly).

ETA: Where's Cody Ransom when we need him?

[Bench]

Oops ... just checked out the NRI list and noticed Sanchez is still around ... I guess he cleared waivers and re-signed a minor-league deal. 

That is precisely what happened.

[geezerdonk]

I could see CJ starting the season at 3B here, too, but I could also see him DFA DFGR or traded for a bag of balls if he does not make the big club.[/i]

[strosrays]

IIRC, there were approximately zero scouts that thought he could stick at 3b.

OK.  But what was his range factor?  How about zone rating?

[Travis]

OK.  But what was his range factor?  How about zone rating?

You forgot OPS.

[jester9450]

Paredes is also the most athletic player on this team, with the only possible exception being Bourgois.

with all the ofs that are on the roster these two maybe the most athletic and the fastest.