2012 SS & 3B

[Reuben]

McTaggart has a new piece reminding us that the Astros are probably going to do jack shit in the FA market this winter. I found these tid-bits interesting, though:

On Paredes: "There has been some talk about moving him to shortstop"

On Barmes: "The Astros would like to keep him, but he's likely to test the free-agent market and should have no problem getting a job. The Astros might have to spend some money in free agency at shortstop if they don't decide to move Paredes to the position."


He also has a lengthy quote from Wade about how great Barmes is and how he's likely to sign elsewhere, so I'm guessing they're ready for that to happen. I think they might get a sandwich-round pick if they offer arb and he does leave, which might be a factor also.

This is the first I've heard about trying Paredes at SS, and I'm wondering if he has team sources or if it's mostly his own speculation. I know Jimmy played SS in the minors, before he hurt his arm... it's still pretty surprising, though.

[Fredia]

after this last season  nthing surprises me. i think we will go from the wallet and the grocer to the closed purse strings and famine

[OregonStrosFan]

I've been wondering if they'd consider moving Paredes back to SS. Wouldn't exactly mind seeing what he could do there.

[VirtualBob]

I hope all this talk of Paredes to SS is enclosed in virtual [sarcasm] tags.  This would be a disaster.  He is adequate at 3B though he seems a bit lost at times, but he would be a complete disaster at SS.  He did not show much range at 2B and made up for some poor glove work with the short throw.  That will not be an option at SS.

[Bench]

I hope all this talk of Paredes to SS is enclosed in virtual [sarcasm] tags.  This would be a disaster.  He is adequate at 3B though he seems a bit lost at times, but he would be a complete disaster at SS.  He did not show much range at 2B and made up for some poor glove work with the short throw.  That will not be an option at SS.

Agreed.  He can't play SS.

[jbm]

I don't know if he can or can't, but why give him more to think about. He already has a lot on his plate with the jump from AA pitching and adequately fielding third.

[Reuben]

I hope all this talk of Paredes to SS is enclosed in virtual [sarcasm] tags.  This would be a disaster.  He is adequate at 3B though he seems a bit lost at times, but he would be a complete disaster at SS.  He did not show much range at 2B and made up for some poor glove work with the short throw.  That will not be an option at SS.

Yeah, I had always figured that, if anything, he'd end up in CF. He's certainly got the arm to play anywhere, and what I saw of his play at 3B it seemed like range was not a problem... rushing things and making poor decisions were. That said, I still was very surprised to see Tag indicating that the Astros were considering moving him to SS... I have no problem believing that they see things in Paredes I don't.

I think jbm makes a good point too... why complicate things for the kid, he's got enough on his plate trying to learn to hit, run the bases, and play 3rd.

[juliogotay]

They have a kid at Corpus who is suppossed  to be a fine SS (Villar). They have no 3B in their system that I see. They may be talking about it but it makes no sense to me.

[VirtualBob]

They have a kid at Corpus who is suppossed  to be a fine SS (Villar). They have no 3B in their system that I see. They may be talking about it but it makes no sense to me.

Kvasnicka may still develop into a serviceable 3B, but not before 2014.

[MusicMan]

He also has a lengthy quote from Wade about how great Barmes is and how he's likely to sign elsewhere, so I'm guessing they're ready for that to happen. I think they might get a sandwich-round pick if they offer arb and he does leave, which might be a factor also.

Confirmed - Barmes is a Type B free agent

[Reuben]

Confirmed - Barmes is a Type B free agent

Interesting quotes from Wade in this Chron story:

“The fact that he’s a compensation player has some relevance,” Wade said. “I resisted trading him at the deadline because of the way he was playing and what he brought to the club from the standpoint of leadership ability with all those young guys we have, particularly the infielders. We knew there was a possibility he would achieve compensation status, and he just barely did. It’s an added benefit.”

...With few in-house alternatives, Wade said the team continues to have internal discussions about moving Paredes to shortstop.

...“I’d hate to throw that at the kid after making the transition from second to third,” Wade said. “But shortstop is an area where if we don’t have Clint back, we’re going to have to pay attention to see if there are ways to build more depth at the position at the least.

[ValpoCory]

Confirmed - Barmes is a Type B free agent

At first I was kind of surprised to not see Mike Gonzalez and his 2.94 career ERA on that Type B list, but then I saw his stats over 2010-11 were down.  The Rangers lose out on some compensation there.  On the other hand, 41 year old Darren Oliver is a Type A free agent, so you can expect an arbitration offer from the Rangers.

Not sure I trust any ranking that has Brandon Phillips over Prince Fielder.

[austro]

On the other hand, 41 year old Darren Oliver is a Type A free agent, so you can expect an arbitration offer from the Rangers.

There's a sentence I never expected to see.

[ValpoCory]

There's a sentence I never expected to see.

Agreed.  Oliver has done a great job extending his career.  His last 4 years have been excellent.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/stats/_/id/2969/darren-oliver

[VirtualBob]

Agreed.  Oliver has done a great job extending his career.  His last 4 years have been excellent.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/stats/_/id/2969/darren-oliver

But at 41 with that kind of track record he may actually be a substantial risk when it comes to arbitration.  Could he perhaps getmore that way than on the open market?

[Lurch]

Agreed.  Oliver has done a great job extending his career.  His last 4 years have been excellent.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/stats/_/id/2969/darren-oliver

Not saying... just saying

[Jacksonian]

At first I was kind of surprised to not see Mike Gonzalez and his 2.94 career ERA on that Type B list, but then I saw his stats over 2010-11 were down.  The Rangers lose out on some compensation there.  On the other hand, 41 year old Darren Oliver is a Type A free agent, so you can expect an arbitration offer from the Rangers.

Not sure I trust any ranking that has Brandon Phillips over Prince Fielder.

If they offer him arb he'll take it.  No team is going to pick him up if they have to give up a 1st round pick to get him.  He would be limited to bottom 15 teams in the draft or retirement otherwise.  My bet is they don't offer him arb.

[VirtualBob]

If they offer him arb he'll take it.  No team is going to pick him up if they have to give up a 1st round pick to get him.  He would be limited to bottom 15 teams in the draft or retirement otherwise.  My bet is they don't offer him arb.

ditto.

[Ron Brand]

Heyman reporting that the Pirates are close to signing Barmes.

[Reuben]

Heyman reporting that the Pirates are close to signing Barmes.

Obviously he wanted to be with a winner. [/heart sinks as the (relative) truth of that statement sinks in]

[Ron Brand]

Tags says Barmes is a Buc, 2 years, $10.5 million.

[hostros7]

Tags says Barmes is a Buc, 2 years, $10.5 million.

that's a lot of cheddar.  good for him. 

[MusicMan]

Tags says Barmes is a Buc, 2 years, $10.5 million.

And we still don't know if we get a draft pick for him.

[jbm]

This kind of bothers me.  Seems like that is a fair price for someone of Barmes caliber.  The team needs a shortstop, doesn't have many legit options, and the asshole just came into a lot of money.  WTF.  Just spend a little so we can at least watch a servicable infield.  Rebuilding is understood, but allowing for the absolute worst product seems foolhardy.

[Mr. Happy]

The Barmes loss does not portend well for the club's immediate future.

[juliogotay]

The Barmes loss does not portend well for the club's immediate future.

I think Crane is pretty upfront about his plans and spending on free agents isn't a part of it for awhile. http://www.astroscounty.com/2011/11/crane-to-follow-rangers-model.html

There is also a reveal in here regarding his thinking about Spring Training sites and it ain't Arizona.

[Ron Brand]

I think Crane is pretty upfront about his plans and spending on free agents isn't a part of it for awhile. http://www.astroscounty.com/2011/11/crane-to-follow-rangers-model.html

There is also a reveal in here regarding his thinking about Spring Training sites and it ain't Arizona.

Arlington?

[MusicMan]

Arlington?

Wherever Nolan and Bud tell him to go.

[austro]

Wherever Nolan and Bud tell him to go.

Milwaukee in March. Sweet!

[jaklewein]

There is also a reveal in here regarding his thinking about Spring Training sites and it ain't Arizona.

This would be the worst option of all, at least for me.  What shoe is going to drop next?  The next few years is going to be tough to stomach.

[HudsonHawk]

This would be the worst option of all, at least for me.  What shoe is going to drop next?  The next few years is going to be tough to stomach.

Why is staying in Florida the worst option of all?

[Limey]

But at 41 with that kind of track record he may actually be a substantial risk when it comes to arbitration.  Could he perhaps getmore that way than on the open market?

He's younger than Albert Pooholes.

[chuck]

Why is staying in Florida the worst option of all?

I think he means the team's moving to Port St. Lucie. I agree, next to their moving to Disney and sharing with the Braves Port St. Lucie is by far the worst possible location. Not that I really give a fuck.

[Limey]

Rebuilding is understood, but allowing for the absolute worst product seems foolhardy.

Did you not read where Crane said that payroll would be adjusted to fit revenue?  The 2012 roster is going to make the Royals look like...erm...Royalty.

[BudGirl]

I think he means the team's moving to Port St. Lucie. I agree, next to their moving to Disney and sharing with the Braves Port St. Lucie is by far the worst possible location. Not that I really give a fuck.

Would you spend all of Spring Training in Arizona if the Astros moved?

[chuck]

Would you spend all of Spring Training in Arizona if the Astros moved?

I have no interest in following the Astros anywhere. But I will say, and apparently I am in the minority here, that I love everything about spring training in Florida except Disney and I don't care for Phoenix at all.

[JimR]

I have no interest in following the Astros anywhere. But I will say, and apparently I am in the minority here, that I love everything about spring training in Florida except Disney and I don't care for Phoenix at all.

that's good b/c there is nothing in Phoenix.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

that's good b/c there is nothing in Phoenix.

Been to Tempe/Phoenix a number of times.  If I had to live anywhere outside Texas, it would be at the top of the list. 

(note: well aware you are being sarcastic....)

[JimR]

Been to Tempe/Phoenix a number of times.  If I had to live anywhere outside Texas, it would be at the top of the list. 

(note: well aware you are being sarcastic....)

no, i meant ST is in Scotsdale and its environs. there is no baseball in Phoenix.

my brother lives in Phoenix, and he can have it.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

no, i meant ST is in Scotsdale and its environs. there is no baseball in Phoenix.

my brother lives in Phoenix, and he can have it.

That's surprising.  I had a great business client there, who served as host to the greater Phoenix area.  I never had a bad time or couldn't find something to do. 

[juliogotay]

That's surprising.  I had a great business client there, who served as host to the greater Phoenix area.  I never had a bad time or couldn't find something to do. 

Scottsdale may be the best part of the greater Phoenix area.

[JimR]

That's surprising.  I had a great business client there, who served as host to the greater Phoenix area.  I never had a bad time or couldn't find something to do. 

i like Scottsdale for ST very much. i would not want to live out there, however.

[Arky Vaughan]

The Barmes loss does not portend well for the club's immediate future.

Spending money on Barmes at this point would be a waste. Not because of Barmes, but because of where the team is in its rebuilding mode.

[Andyzipp]

Spending money on Barmes at this point would be a waste. Not because of Barmes, but because of where the team is in its rebuilding mode.

Sure, but with a young team, you at the very least hope you can put a good defense out there.

Is Manzella still with the org?  Are they going to rush Villar?

[Ron Brand]

Sure, but with a young team, you at the very least hope you can put a good defense out there.

Is Manzella still with the org?  Are they going to rush Villar?

Or enter into a horribly misguided experiment with Paredes?

[MikeyBoy]

Or enter into a horribly misguided experiment with Paredes?

I really hope this idea doesn't get past the consideration phase.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I really hope this idea doesn't get past the consideration phase.

I'm currently so down on the organization, I kind of hope it does...



But, not really.

FYBMC&R

[Jacksonian]

Current thinking.

"We'll have to explore different options to find a front-line shortstop or someone to share time with Sanchez," Astros general manager Ed Wade said.

[austro]

I really hope this idea doesn't get past the consideration phase.

You're forgetting: Pam is still in the organization.

[Andyzipp]

You're forgetting: Pam is still in the organization.

For what it's worth, from someone I consider reliable, one of the things that Crane's group has discovered since the purchase was announced is that Business Operations had far too much input into the Baseball Operations side (doy).  Pam was asked to stay if and only if she could accept that she would be left out of most of the baseball decisions.

[MikeyBoy]

For what it's worth, from someone I consider reliable, one of the things that Crane's group has discovered since the purchase was announced is that Business Operations had far too much input into the Baseball Operations side (doy).  Pam was asked to stay if and only if she could accept that she would be left out of most of the baseball decisions.

As long as she remains involved in the business decisions. \Chic-Fil-A

[austro]

For what it's worth, from someone I consider reliable, one of the things that Crane's group has discovered since the purchase was announced is that Business Operations had far too much input into the Baseball Operations side (doy).  Pam was asked to stay if and only if she could accept that she would be left out of most of the baseball decisions.

Boy, I hope that's accurate.

[Andyzipp]

As long as she remains involved in the business decisions. \Chic-Fil-A

I think longing for a simple atmosphere at a professional sporting event in the US is tilting at a lot of windmills.  That horse is certainly out of the barn.

[JaneDoe]

I think longing for a simple atmosphere at a professional sporting event in the US is tilting at a lot of windmills.  That horse is certainly out of the barn.

When I visited Wrigley earlier this year, I was surprised that there was little commercialism in/on the ballpark and field, with the exception of the concourse/concessions.  And none of the cheerleader crap over the speakers or flashing lights and screens.  I did enjoy that.

[hostros7]

When I visited Wrigley earlier this year, I was surprised that there was little commercialism in/on the ballpark and field, with the exception of the concourse/concessions.  And none of the cheerleader crap over the speakers or flashing lights and screens.  I did enjoy that.

There's a lot on Waveland now that is just as visible if it was in the stadium.  I'm not sure who is responsible for that, but you can be sure the Cubs are getting a cut. 

[WakePhil]

I think longing for a simple atmosphere at a professional sporting event in the US is tilting at a lot of windmills.  That horse is certainly out of the barn.

Problem is that Pam will take that horse, hang it from the flag pole and hand out elmers glue coupons when some one runs on the hill. Ads aren't going anywhere, but they could be done in a remotely tasteful way. I think that's worth arguing for.

[Mr. Happy]

Spending money on Barmes at this point would be a waste. Not because of Barmes, but because of where the team is in its rebuilding mode.

I'm not so sure, Arky. Nothing bums out young fragile pitchers than poor defense. Barmes is a plus SS.

[Reuben]

I'm not so sure, Arky. Nothing bums out young fragile pitchers than poor defense. Barmes is a plus SS.

I've been thinking the same thing, but, the good news is there's a fair amount of good-fielding SS available. FA list from mlbtr:

Yuniesky Betancourt (30) - Type B
Andres Blanco (28)
Orlando Cabrera (37)
Ronny Cedeno (29)
Craig Counsell (41)
Rafael Furcal (34) - Type B
Alex Gonzalez (34) - Type B
Jerry Hairston Jr. (36)
Cesar Izturis (32)
Nick Punto (34)
Edgar Renteria (35)
Jose Reyes (29) - Type A
Luis Rodriguez (32)
Jimmy Rollins (33) - Type A
Ramon Santiago (32)
Jack Wilson (34)
Josh Wilson (31)

Perhaps the Astros can get a guy like Gonzalez, Izturis, Cedeno, or Punto for a cheap one-year deal (I imagine they're hoping Villar can take over SS in 2013, although maybe that's overly optimistic).

[Jacksonian]

I've been thinking the same thing, but, the good news is there's a fair amount of good-fielding SS available. FA list from mlbtr:

Yuniesky Betancourt (30) - Type B
Andres Blanco (28)
Orlando Cabrera (37)
Ronny Cedeno (29)
Craig Counsell (41)
Rafael Furcal (34) - Type B
Alex Gonzalez (34) - Type B
Jerry Hairston Jr. (36)
Cesar Izturis (32)
Nick Punto (34)
Edgar Renteria (35)
Jose Reyes (29) - Type A
Luis Rodriguez (32)
Jimmy Rollins (33) - Type A
Ramon Santiago (32)
Jack Wilson (34)
Josh Wilson (31)

Perhaps the Astros can get a guy like Gonzalez, Izturis, Cedeno, or Punto for a cheap one-year deal (I imagine they're hoping Villar can take over SS in 2013, although maybe that's overly optimistic).

I think that's very optimistic.  Too, I expect a lot less fast-tracking of prospects right now.

[VirtualBob]

Is Manzella still with the org? 

No. Waiver claim to San Diego in August.

[HudsonHawk]

I think longing for a simple atmosphere at a professional sporting event in the US is tilting at a lot of windmills.  That horse is certainly out of the barn.

That horse was never in the barn in the first place. Professional baseball has always been a commercial endeavor, and the ballpark has always been an advertising canvas.

[Ron Brand]

That horse was never in the barn in the first place. Professional baseball has always been a commercial endeavor, and the ballpark has always been an advertising canvas.

Unfortunately, a canvas can be used by Picasso or by Kinkade.

[HudsonHawk]

Unfortunately, a canvas can be used by Picasso or by Kinkade.

True, but I'm not sure why Gem razors are any more high art than are chicken sandwiches. People tend to think that advertising in the park and signs on the wall are new phenomena. They're not. They're as old as the ballyard itself.

[Ron Brand]

True, but I'm not sure why Gem razors are any more high art than are chicken sandwiches. People tend to think that advertising in the park and signs on the wall are new phenomena. They're not. They're as old as the ballyard itself.

Yep, that's true. I think I respond more negatively to the constant bombardment of noise, but that doesn't have much to do with signage, Fowl-Poles-be-damned.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Yep, that's true. I think I respond more negatively to the constant bombardment of noise, but that doesn't have much to do with signage, Fowl-Poles-be-damned.

I think they politely refer to such activity as "pageantry of the game".  Personally, I think you would be highly effective in dissuading players from these "walk up" songs by calling them out for acting like a bunch of preening man-whores.  Then again, probably not.  But it would be fun to see...

[JaneDoe]

True, but I'm not sure why Gem razors are any more high art than are chicken sandwiches. People tend to think that advertising in the park and signs on the wall are new phenomena. They're not. They're as old as the ballyard itself.

The signage and advertising are not the problem.  It is the flashing ring of advertisements/cheerleading between the levels. 

[Bench]

Is Tal Smith staying with the club under Crane?

[Andyzipp]

Is Tal Smith staying with the club under Crane?

Won't be announced until Friday at the earliest, maybe Monday, but scuttlebutt is no to Smith and Wade.

[Bench]

Won't be announced until Friday at the earliest, maybe Monday, but scuttlebutt is no to Smith and Wade.

The press release today had Postolos (sp?) as the President and CEO, but made no mention of it.  No Smith seems pretty likely.

[Travis]

The press release today had Postolos (sp?) as the President and CEO, but made no mention of it.  No Smith seems pretty likely.

For someone who knows very little of Tal Smith, can someone provide an overview of how he is viewed/what he has done?

[Bench]

For someone who knows very little of Tal Smith, can someone provide an overview of how he is viewed/what he has done?

He won a lot of arbitration hearings for a lot of teams.  And designed a hill.  And made a lot of trades with his son. 

[JimR]

For someone who knows very little of Tal Smith, can someone provide an overview of how he is viewed/what he has done?

go read about 1980. he did that and got fired for his troubles. he was an Astros scout before that. Tal Smith has been a key member of the Houston Astros for more years than you have been following the team, apparently. Bench is a professional cynic.

[Travis]

Thank you for the tip. More years than I've been alive, actually.

[MikeyBoy]

True, but I'm not sure why Gem razors are any more high art than are chicken sandwiches. People tend to think that advertising in the park and signs on the wall are new phenomena. They're not. They're as old as the ballyard itself.

Signs on the wall, not new. Signs hanging from the fucking foul poles, new. I can live with advertisment on the walls/ribbon board/scoreboard, naming sections of seats, hills and flag poles in the field of play, big screens with graphics and stupid little games to follow along with, but hanging shit on the foul poles is where I draw the line.

[Bench]

Bench is a professional cynic.

True, but I was trying to be tongue in cheek.  Tal has had a staggeringly impressive career in baseball. 

[HudsonHawk]

Signs on the wall, not new. Signs hanging from the fucking foul poles, new. I can live with advertisment on the walls/ribbon board/scoreboard, naming sections of seats, hills and flag poles in the field of play, big screens with graphics and stupid little games to follow along with, but hanging shit on the foul poles is where I draw the line.

[milo] You mean the "fair poles"[/milo]

[Mr. Happy]

[milo] You mean the "fair poles"[/milo]

Milo stole that from Warner Wolf.