Author Topic: Terry Collins  (Read 7127 times)

L.I. Bill

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Terry Collins
« on: November 11, 2010, 03:42:21 pm »
Some folks who recently moved into a neighborhood in this area are talking about buying themselves a somewhat used Terry Collins as manager for their new homestead.
Before they go ahead I figured it might be wise to check with others who have driven this model in the past to see how they liked owning one, how it ran, what were its assets, drawbacks, dependability, stuff like that.

So any particular opinions one way or the other that I could pass along before a decision is made probably in the next two weeks or so would be helpful.
I hate for them to wind up with a case of buyer's regret after they've agreed to a commitment like what happened when they picked up that Art Howe model several years back.

Alkie

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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2010, 03:45:14 pm »
Tell them they don't want it, there's something wrong with the transmission; goddamn thing is always stuck in 2nd.

MusicMan

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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2010, 03:52:34 pm »
Unless the previous owners have cleared up the chronic red-ass associated with the model, I'd steer clear.
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Bench

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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2010, 03:57:23 pm »
He has the perfect temperment for Queens.

"Holy shit, Mozart. Get me off this fucking thing."

austro

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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2010, 04:47:05 pm »
Unless the previous owners have cleared up the chronic red-ass associated with the model, I'd steer clear.

Are you actually trying to help the steM? I'd tell them to sign him to a 10-yr deal starting yesterday.
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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2010, 05:00:29 pm »
So, does this mean Collins has fallen back onto the face of the earth? Or, as Obi Wan Kenobi might say, that's a name I haven't heard in a long, long time...
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Bench

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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2010, 05:56:44 pm »
Collins spent the last season or so as the Mets minor league field coordinator and apparently did a very impressive job.  He and Wally Backman are the "in-organization" candidates.  The Mets know who they are getting with TC.
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L.I. Bill

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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2010, 06:05:17 pm »
Quote
Unless the previous owners have cleared up the chronic red-ass associated with the model, I'd steer clear.

So I'm guessing this means he clashed with players and/or media often?



Quote
He has the perfect temperment for Queens

Boy, there's a line that could be interpreted so many ways.



Quote
So, does this mean Collins has fallen back onto the face of the earth? Or, as Obi Wan Kenobi might say, that's a name I haven't heard in a long, long time...

He's actually been with the Mets over this past year as minor league field coordinator or some such title.  The new brain-trust however (GM Alderson, assts DePodesta & Riccardi) weren't here until a week or so ago so he wasn't their specific hire although all (DePodesta in particular) have said good things about him. 
On any given day he's referred to in the press as the "leading candidate" although that kind of speculation changes almost daily.




Bench

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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2010, 06:13:14 pm »
So I'm guessing this means he clashed with players and/or media often?


He was a very angry manager with the Astros. 
"Holy shit, Mozart. Get me off this fucking thing."

MusicMan

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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2010, 08:29:20 pm »
So I'm guessing this means he clashed with players and/or media often?

If you stuck a lump of coal up his ass, in two weeks, you'd have a diamond.
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Mr. Happy

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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2010, 09:24:55 am »
They deserve him. Too many overpaid pussies on that club. They need a drill sergeant.
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Clark in Denver

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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2010, 09:25:50 am »
I remember him going apeshit in a brawl with the Expos in 1996.  He ended up with a busted lip, if I remember correctly.  
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Limey

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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2010, 10:00:22 am »
In the NY media spotlight, Collins would compress into a substance so dense that he would form a black hole.
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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2010, 11:22:15 am »
I remember him going apeshit in a brawl with the Expos in 1996.  He ended up with a busted lip, if I remember correctly.  

Moises Alou sissily threw his helmet in the middle of the brawl and it hit TC in the mouth.  I hated Moises from that moment on and it took a long time for me to come around to him on the Astros, but he ended up being one of my favorite players from that era.  Fucking helmet throwing hand pissing motherfucker can play. 
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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2010, 11:24:51 am »
So I'm guessing this means he clashed with players and/or media often?

Hal Lanier was more caustic than Collins ever was, however what Collins did that lead to his downfall was raise himself well above the players.  What I mean by that is he was unapproachable and mean spirited.  He was cold, un-communicative and very distant.  A player never felt comfortable around him because you didn't know where you stood.  Had he clashed with players, that would have been one thing, but most if not all the players felt they did not know what Collins thought of them or where they stood, so they were left with only one thing to do for self-preservation: go to Craig Biggio.

There was only one player with the stature and standing with the organization strong enough to combat Collin's stand-offish behavior and that was Biggio.  This is also where Biggio got the reputation as a clubhouse lawyer (and rightfully so, because Biggio did not stop this sort of behavior once Collins departed).  So all the players basically would go to Biggio and want to know if he thought they were in the good graces with the organization... or not.  Biggio gave it to players straight when he knew things and when he didn't, he went to the owner and others to get information.  Collins fumed at this and basically blamed Biggio for his getting fired (eventually).  It was a holy way of sorts, but it was basically down to two men fighting for the clubhouse: Terry Collins and Craig Biggio... and Biggio won.  Not because Biggio was a bad hombre, but because Collins never did anything to make players feel they knew exactly where they stood with him.

L.I. Bill

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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2010, 02:48:06 pm »
Thanx Noe, et al.

I thought I remembered a Biggio story along those lines but I'm not sure I was ever up on the details.
Assuming T.C. hasn't mellowed in the intervening years, it's not a great sign for managing here seeing as how the Wilpons (father & son) - like Drayton from what I gather - have created an environment (or at least been accused of such) where certain veteran players felt they had the power to go over the field mgr's head and directly either to ownership or to the GM.  Leiter and Franco had the rep back in their day that they had a path to the owner's door and more recently Carlos & Carlos (Beltran & Delgado) to the more Spanish-friendly GM level of Omar Minaya or his former asst Tony Bernazard.

Dealing with the press is a whole other story.  Normally I'm of the mind that the whole 'it's so much tougher to play in NYC' angle is somewhat overblown, but the manager's chair is one place where it's probably more true than it is for the players, particularly in baseball where the contact is everyday and not nearly as tightly controlled as in football.  Be interesting to see how that plays out assuming he winds up as the choice - although he's still just one of at least a half-dozen candidates at this point.

Lefty

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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2010, 03:21:50 pm »
It was a holy way of sorts, but it was basically down to two men fighting for the clubhouse: Terry Collins and Craig Biggio.
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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2010, 11:56:32 am »
I am friends with someone who played for him (not in HOU), and he says Collins is a decent if humorless sort, not really volatile.  He is intense/driven and has a lot of rules.  He can have a good effect on a team at first, especially one that appears to need some organization and discipline.  He is a sound baseball guy.  BUT . . . the relentless pressure he keeps on his players causes things to go bad, eventually.  My friend said he liked Collins at first, but by the end, like just about all his teammates, he wanted to kill hm.

That is pretty much how I remember him in Houston.  In some ways, you could say he laid the groundwork for Dierker's success.  I think it is Bill James, among others, who argued a strict manager like Collins can help a young, lackadaisical team initially; and by the same token, once a guy like Collins gets booted, a more laissez-faire type like Dierker can succeed, if for no other reason than the players are relieved to be out from under the thumb of the previous guy, and play well.  Dime psychology, but there you go.

Taras Bulba

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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2010, 05:19:18 pm »
"Somebody better go back and git a shitload of dimes."
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Astro_Horn

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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2010, 04:47:13 pm »
I remember him going apeshit in a brawl with the Expos in 1996.  He ended up with a busted lip, if I remember correctly.  

I was just gonna post the same thing, what a shitshow that was. I can still vividly remember Cangelosi's pummeling of Jeff Juden.

IIRC, Biggio was able to duck out of the way of Alou's helmet toss right before it nailed Collins.  Moises was lucky it was only the 'brim' of the helmet that made impact with TC's lip, a more direct hit to the eye, nose, or cheekbone could've made for a pretty nasty injury.

It would be great to get a look at that video clip sometime.

Hornstros

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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2010, 09:21:25 pm »
IIRC, Biggio was able to duck out of the way of Alou's helmet toss right before it nailed Collins.  Moises was lucky it was only the 'brim' of the helmet that made impact with TC's lip, a more direct hit to the eye, nose, or cheekbone could've made for a pretty nasty injury.

i think it was Shane Reynolds who ducked outta the way...if only YouTube was around in '96
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roadrunner

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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2010, 10:02:36 pm »
i think it was Shane Reynolds who ducked outta the way...if only YouTube was around in '96

It wouldn't matter with MLB's ridiculous copyright enforcement.

Lurch

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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2010, 04:53:22 pm »
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Alkie

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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2010, 04:57:35 pm »
Yankee fans here find this hilarious.

austro

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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2010, 05:09:05 pm »
My prediction: next year the Mets will do well, partly because they're due to miss the bad luck they've suffered recently, and partly because the change to Collins will keep the players on their toes trying to prove themselves. But the year after that will be a colossal meltdown because Collins' high-strung nature will eventually cause the players to rebel, and the NY media will chew him up and spit him out.
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Limey

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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2010, 09:35:31 am »
My prediction: next year the Mets will do well, partly because they're due to miss the bad luck they've suffered recently, and partly because the change to Collins will keep the players on their toes trying to prove themselves. But the year after that will be a colossal meltdown because Collins' high-strung nature will eventually cause the players to rebel, and the NY media will chew him up and spit him out.

I agree with all of the above, bar the timeline.  Meltdown happens just before or just after the ASB.   YOu are underestimating the size of the egos and the thinness of the skins of the Mets.
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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2010, 03:33:27 pm »
This seems to be a rather lengthy hiatus period between managing jobs. Does anyone know what Collins has been up to since getting fired by the Astros? Has he managed any minor league or foreign team since then?
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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2010, 03:44:22 pm »
This seems to be a rather lengthy hiatus period between managing jobs. Does anyone know what Collins has been up to since getting fired by the Astros? Has he managed any minor league or foreign team since then?

Managed the Angels for 3 seasons.  Had been with the Mets org in minor league coordinator capacities for the past several years.

Mr. Happy

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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2010, 04:04:37 pm »
Managed the Angels for 3 seasons.  Had been with the Mets org in minor league coordinator capacities for the past several years.

Totally forgot about the Halos gig. Or maybe it never registered with my brain.
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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2010, 04:24:46 pm »
Totally forgot about the Halos gig. Or maybe it never registered with my brain.
But, that was still over by '99. I wonder what the record is for longest gap between manager gigs? Jack McKeon, maybe? Did Collins even have a MLB coaching gig in that interim?
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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2010, 04:44:38 pm »
I wonder what the record is for longest gap between manager gigs? Jack McKeon, maybe?

I'm not sure if it's the record, but Del Baker went 18 years in between managerial jobs, skippering the 1942 Tigers, then no managing again in the 1960 Red Sox.  McKeon only went like 8 years.  Collins is going on 11.
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L.I. Bill

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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2010, 05:55:59 pm »
Collins also did some overseas coaching (Japan & China) plus minor league work here over the decade-plus since leaving the Angels.



My prediction: next year the Mets will do well, partly because they're due to miss the bad luck they've suffered recently, and partly because the change to Collins will keep the players on their toes trying to prove themselves.

Yeah, that's the angle I'm going with (it's my story and I'm sticking to it).


Quote
But the year after that will be a colossal meltdown because Collins' high-strung nature will eventually cause the players to rebel, and the NY media will chew him up and spit him out.

Reports have it being just a two-year deal (formal press shindig on Tuesday) so if/when the possible (inevitable?) meltdown happens the deal will be winding up and the younger guys who were passed over but are likely to stay in the org (Backman, Oberkfell, Chip Hale) will be considered more ready.

headhunter

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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2010, 08:56:42 pm »
Collins a steM

I hope that after his stop in ny he moves to wrigley before he gets deported again.
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Col. Sphinx Drummond

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Re: Terry Collins
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2010, 11:13:40 pm »
Everyone's talking, few of them know
The rest are pretending, they put on a show
And if there's a message I guess this is it
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