Author Topic: Bourn gets his second gold glove! (Read 7558 times)

Bench · « **on:** November 10, 2010, 02:35:10 pm »

Way to go Michael! (WTG SBB! for BG).

Other winners:

Yadier
Pujols
Phillips
Rolen (he's won at least one with three different teams)
Tulowitzki
Carlos Gonzalez
Victorino
Arroyo

Bench · « **Reply #1 on:** November 10, 2010, 02:36:36 pm »

Per FooterTweet: Bourn becomes the first Astros player to win a Gold Glove in back-to-back years since catcher Brad Ausmus won the award in 2001 and '02.

Double Budgirl Rainbow!

BudGirl · « **Reply #2 on:** November 10, 2010, 02:39:59 pm »

I'm so glad he's patroling Tal's Hill.

EasTexAstro · « **Reply #3 on:** November 10, 2010, 02:41:48 pm »

What would be the All-GG (Astros) team? (Great defensive players from the Astros)

P - Hampton?
C - Ausmus
1b- Bagwell
2b-
ss- Everett
3b- Camineti?
lf-
cf-Bourn
rf-

BudGirl · « **Reply #4 on:** November 10, 2010, 02:43:07 pm »

Quote from: EasTexAstro on November 10, 2010, 02:41:48 pm

What would be the All-GG (Astros) team? (Great defensive players from the Astros)

P - Hampton?
C - Ausmus
1b- Bagwell
2b-
ss- Everett
3b- Camineti?
lf-
cf-Bourn
rf-

How about Hidalgo in RF?

You wouldn't put Biggio at 2B?

JimR · « **Reply #5 on:** November 10, 2010, 02:46:05 pm »

Puhl in LF then.

EasTexAstro · « **Reply #6 on:** November 10, 2010, 02:47:44 pm »

Forgot to put Hidalgo, but I did think of him.

Biggio, though a great, hard player, I'm not sure I would put him ahead of Doran as a GG type 2b. I wanted other opinions.

Andyzipp · « **Reply #7 on:** November 10, 2010, 02:49:08 pm »

Quote from: EasTexAstro on November 10, 2010, 02:47:44 pm

Forgot to put Hidalgo, but I did think of him.

Biggio, though a great, hard player, I'm not sure I would put him ahead of Doran as a GG type 2b. I wanted other opinions.

Rader instead of Caminiti, perhaps?

Doran was better defensively than Biggio. Was Morgan better than Doran?

EasTexAstro · « **Reply #8 on:** November 10, 2010, 02:52:48 pm »

Quote from: Andyzipp on November 10, 2010, 02:49:08 pm

Rader instead of Caminiti, perhaps?

Doran was better defensively than Biggio. Was Morgan better than Doran?

Sadly, I don't remember as much of Rader as I should. I give Morgan the edge on offense, but defensively? I thought Doran was about as solid as they came.

GreatBagwellsBeard · « **Reply #9 on:** November 10, 2010, 02:53:17 pm »

I'd take Pettite over Hampton, but I'd be okay with either.

JimR · « **Reply #10 on:** November 10, 2010, 02:53:27 pm »

Morgan was very good as a young player.

agree re Rader, but it is close.

EasTexAstro · « **Reply #11 on:** November 10, 2010, 02:55:49 pm »

Quote from: JimR on November 10, 2010, 02:53:27 pm

Morgan was very good as a young player.

agree re Rader, but it is close.

I remember Morgan doing good things at 2nd as a Red, but I don't remember as much about his Astros years as Doran. Billy just seemed...the best Astro I had seen there.

EasTexAstro · « **Reply #12 on:** November 10, 2010, 02:56:13 pm »

Quote from: GreatBagwellsBeard on November 10, 2010, 02:53:17 pm

I'd take Pettite over Hampton, but I'd be okay with either.

Pettitte? Because of his move to 1st?

Ron Brand · « **Reply #13 on:** November 10, 2010, 03:02:06 pm »

Quote from: JimR on November 10, 2010, 02:53:27 pm

agree re Rader, but it is close.

I agree, Rader was great. Caminiti was more spectacular though.

Cesars Geronimo and Cedeno could pick it a little too.

JimR · « **Reply #14 on:** November 10, 2010, 03:09:03 pm »

i'd put Cedeno in RF over Hidalgo if Bourn has CF.

i think Hampton gets the P slot.

BudGirl · « **Reply #15 on:** November 10, 2010, 03:18:45 pm »

While I love Bourn, would he get the nod over Beltran? I say yes because of his tenure with the Astros.

Bench · « **Reply #16 on:** November 10, 2010, 03:23:45 pm »

Quote from: Andyzipp on November 10, 2010, 02:49:08 pm

Doran was better defensively than Biggio. Was Morgan better than Doran?

Shouldn't the fact that Biggio actually won the gold glove (twice) matter?

JimR · « **Reply #17 on:** November 10, 2010, 03:25:50 pm »

Quote from: EasTexAstro on November 10, 2010, 02:56:13 pm

Pettitte? Because of his move to 1st?

that is not defense, imo.

OregonStrosFan · « **Reply #18 on:** November 10, 2010, 03:26:10 pm »

Cedeno has to be in there somewhere (won 4 gold Gloves as a CF, but also spent some time in LF, RF and 1B).

Taras Bulba · « **Reply #19 on:** November 10, 2010, 03:31:31 pm »

Cedeno was often brilliant and the very definition of the shooting star he wore.

I think that Caminiti had the best gun, but Rader could pick like it was going out of style. Toss up.

Lurch · « **Reply #20 on:** November 10, 2010, 03:49:45 pm »

Quote from: Bench on November 10, 2010, 03:23:45 pm

Shouldn't the fact that Biggio actually won the gold glove (twice) matter?

that is not defense, imo.

Andyzipp · « **Reply #21 on:** November 10, 2010, 04:16:33 pm »

Quote from: Bench on November 10, 2010, 03:23:45 pm

Shouldn't the fact that Biggio actually won the gold glove (twice) matter?

Asking this in a post talking about Derek Jeter's GGs...hasn't your question already been answered?!?

Limey · « **Reply #22 on:** November 10, 2010, 05:02:32 pm »

As you might have suspected, Fuckhouse nails the crapshoot that is Gold Glove voting.

Bench · « **Reply #23 on:** November 10, 2010, 06:18:14 pm »

Quote from: Andyzipp on November 10, 2010, 04:16:33 pm

Asking this in a post talking about Derek Jeter's GGs...hasn't your question already been answered?!?

You're the first person to mention Jeter in this thread. Stop projecting on me.

Reuben · « **Reply #24 on:** November 10, 2010, 06:19:31 pm »

Woo-hoo, Bourn!!

Andyzipp · « **Reply #25 on:** November 10, 2010, 06:28:47 pm »

Quote from: Bench on November 10, 2010, 06:18:14 pm

You're the first person to mention Jeter in this thread. Stop projecting on me.

At my age it all starts to melt together. August was one big thread.

Noe · « **Reply #26 on:** November 10, 2010, 06:36:17 pm »

Cedeno - LF
Bourn - CF
Puhl - RF

MusicMan · « **Reply #27 on:** November 10, 2010, 08:12:54 pm »

Quote from: Andyzipp on November 10, 2010, 06:28:47 pm

At my age it all starts to melt together. August was one big thread.

I think "Palin? WTF?!?!" had it's own domain name.

Bench · « **Reply #28 on:** November 10, 2010, 08:57:44 pm »

Quote from: MusicMan on November 10, 2010, 08:12:54 pm

I think "Palin? WTF?!?!" had it's own domain name.

And unless the Texans manage to win a few more games "f'ing texans" will peter out short of that one.

austro · « **Reply #29 on:** November 10, 2010, 09:05:34 pm »

Quote from: Bench on November 10, 2010, 08:57:44 pm

And unless the Texans manage to win a few more games "f'ing texans" will peter out short of that one.

There's still 8 games of Kubiakisms to discuss. I wouldn't count that thread out just yet.

Bench · « **Reply #30 on:** November 10, 2010, 09:55:33 pm »

Quote from: austro on November 10, 2010, 09:05:34 pm

There's still 8 games of Kubiakisms to discuss. I wouldn't count that thread out just yet.

Kubiak's mediocrity isn't even worth discussing anymore. We all know it. We all see it. What's the point?

JimR · « **Reply #31 on:** November 10, 2010, 11:21:23 pm »

Quote from: Noe in Austin on November 10, 2010, 06:36:17 pm

Cedeno - LF
Bourn - CF
Puhl - RF

switch Puhl and Cedeno.

VirtualBob · « **Reply #32 on:** November 11, 2010, 02:14:05 pm »

Late to the party, but ...

I agree with the latest on the OF ... Puhl-Bourn-Cedeno L-to-R.

Rader should definitely be at 3B.

Bob Lillis would give Everett a run for his money at SS ... he probably woud be the best at 2B, too, except that he did not play there much as an Astro (iirc). Morgan is probably the best choice at 2B, though Denis Menke gets honorable mention as well. Art Howe should probably get honorable mention at 1B, too.

Hampton & Ausmus are locks.

Limey · « **Reply #33 on:** November 11, 2010, 02:49:38 pm »

Quote from: Bench on November 10, 2010, 09:55:33 pm

Kubiak's mediocrity isn't even worth discussing anymore. We all know it. We all see it. What's the point?

Last Sunday, 70,000 people disagreed with him vociferously at least twice. We couldn't all have been wrong.

Reuben · « **Reply #34 on:** November 11, 2010, 05:06:35 pm »

Quote from: JimR on November 10, 2010, 11:21:23 pm

switch Puhl and Cedeno.

Cedeno barely played RF with the Astros. Shouldn't Hidalgo get the edge there?

Mr. Happy · « **Reply #35 on:** November 12, 2010, 09:39:55 am »

1b: Bagwell
2b: Joe Morgan
SS: Adam Everett/Roger Metzger
3B: Doug Rader/Ken Caminiti
LF: Puhl
CF: Bourn
RF: Cedeno (a cannon for aCF'er)
P: Hampton

Noe · « **Reply #36 on:** November 12, 2010, 11:13:54 am »

My rationale for putting Puhl in RF over Cedeno:

1. Terry Puhl did not miss a cut-off man, he always threw a perfect strike to the cut off man, so it was hard for the other team to take advantage of his accuracy.
2. Terry Puhl did not take bad routes to a ball, he knew when he had a chance to catch a ball and when he needed to play a carom off the wall and hold a runner to one base on a long fly ball.
3. Terry Puhl had a power arm so he could play RF easily.
4. Terry Puhl had wheels.

Cedeno is everyone's chalk pick for RF because of his overall talent (a truly gifted young man that was a legit 5-tool player), but when it comes down to intangibles such as taking routes to a ball that comes off the bat and hitting the cut-off man consistently, Terry Puhl was heads above Cedeno at doing those things. One last thing, Puhl played an entire season in RF without committing one single error, none of which was because he gave up on a ball, far from it.

Andyzipp · « **Reply #37 on:** November 12, 2010, 11:27:39 am »

Quote from: Noe in Austin on November 12, 2010, 11:13:54 am

My rationale for putting Puhl in RF over Cedeno:

1. Terry Puhl did not miss a cut-off man, he always threw a perfect strike to the cut off man, so it was hard for the other team to take advantage of his accuracy.
2. Terry Puhl did not take bad routes to a ball, he knew when he had a chance to catch a ball and when he needed to play a carom off the wall and hold a runner to one base on a long fly ball.
3. Terry Puhl had a power arm so he could play RF easily.
4. Terry Puhl had wheels.

Cedeno is everyone's chalk pick for RF because of his overall talent (a truly gifted young man that was a legit 5-tool player), but when it comes down to intangibles such as taking routes to a ball that comes off the bat and hitting the cut-off man consistently, Terry Puhl was heads above Cedeno at doing those things. One last thing, Puhl played an entire season in RF without committing one single error, none of which was because he gave up on a ball, far from it.

So you get into the arguement of are you building a team with the three overall best defenders in the outfield, or the best defensive leftfielder, centerfielder, etc. It's really about if you consider the positions interchangeable at some level.

Maybe another way to think of it...if you built a team, and in spring training, you had Bourn, Cedeno and Puhl in their primes, where would you play them?

Noe · « **Reply #38 on:** November 12, 2010, 11:33:09 am »

Quote from: Andyzipp on November 12, 2010, 11:27:39 am

So you get into the arguement of are you building a team with the three overall best defenders in the outfield, or the best defensive leftfielder, centerfielder, etc. It's really about if you consider the positions interchangeable at some level.

Maybe another way to think of it...if you built a team, and in spring training, you had Bourn, Cedeno and Puhl in their primes, where would you play them?

I would play Cedeno whereever he wanted to play and was most comfortable and then go from there. Of the three, Cedeno was the most skilled and talent rich. Then I would move Puhl and Bourn to the next slots available. Here is where I would have a quandry though: Bourn in LF is somewhat of a waste of his skills defensively. I'm pretty sure Cedeno would want to play CF, all things considered. In order to make sure Bourn played, I'd have to convince Cedeno to move to another position and I'm pretty sure Cesar would say RF if he had only the choice between LF and RF.

So what I've done now is not necessarily put my best RF in RF, but put my overall best CF in CF and made due with all the other talent I had.

Bench · « **Reply #39 on:** November 12, 2010, 11:36:36 am »

This is the original fantasy baseball. Noe playing mind games with Cesar Cedeno in order to maximize the team's defensive prowess.

Andyzipp · « **Reply #40 on:** November 12, 2010, 11:39:00 am »

Quote from: Noe in Austin on November 12, 2010, 11:33:09 am

So what I've done now is not necessarily put my best RF in RF, but put my overall best CF in CF and made due with all the other talent I had.

Which I think is what most managers would do. Especially playing home games in MMPUS.

Noe · « **Reply #41 on:** November 12, 2010, 01:41:06 pm »

Quote from: Andyzipp on November 12, 2010, 11:39:00 am

Which I think is what most managers would do. Especially playing home games in MMPUS.

Eggszactly! Up the middle defense is important, however, Cedeno would provide that as well. However, wasting Bourn in LF is not the optimal situation and of course if of the three I had to choose who was the most flexible, then Puhl would be my choice to move and master a new position in LF.

All that said, of the three, Puhl is hands down the better of the three at pure RF play, but since we're looking for optimal CF play, then no need to quibble on the best RF'er of the three.

JimR · « **Reply #42 on:** November 12, 2010, 01:48:06 pm »

Quote from: Noe in Austin on November 12, 2010, 11:13:54 am

My rationale for putting Puhl in RF over Cedeno:

1. Terry Puhl did not miss a cut-off man, he always threw a perfect strike to the cut off man, so it was hard for the other team to take advantage of his accuracy.
2. Terry Puhl did not take bad routes to a ball, he knew when he had a chance to catch a ball and when he needed to play a carom off the wall and hold a runner to one base on a long fly ball.
3. Terry Puhl had a power arm so he could play RF easily.
4. Terry Puhl had wheels.

Cedeno is everyone's chalk pick for RF because of his overall talent (a truly gifted young man that was a legit 5-tool player), but when it comes down to intangibles such as taking routes to a ball that comes off the bat and hitting the cut-off man consistently, Terry Puhl was heads above Cedeno at doing those things. One last thing, Puhl played an entire season in RF without committing one single error, none of which was because he gave up on a ball, far from it.

i agree with everything except Puhl's arm. that is why i put Cedeno in RF. Puhl was accurate, but i do not think he had a RF arm.

Mr. Happy · « **Reply #43 on:** November 12, 2010, 07:20:52 pm »

Cedeno clearly had the stronger wing.

VirtualBob · « **Reply #44 on:** November 13, 2010, 01:18:47 pm »

Quote from: Mr. Happy on November 12, 2010, 09:39:55 am

SS: Adam Everett/Roger Metzger

I forgot about Metzger ... good catch.

jester9450 · « **Reply #45 on:** November 16, 2010, 12:35:05 am »

Good for Bourn now if he can get his hitting up to par.

Bench · « **Reply #46 on:** November 16, 2010, 09:40:05 am »

Quote from: jester9450 on November 16, 2010, 12:35:05 am

Good for Bourn now if he can get his hitting up to par.

He won a gold glove. What more do you want from his hitting?

Limey · « **Reply #47 on:** November 16, 2010, 10:06:58 am »

Quote from: Bench on November 16, 2010, 09:40:05 am

He won a gold glove. What more do you want from his hitting?

Rafael Palmeiro likes this.

Lurch · « **Reply #48 on:** November 16, 2010, 10:35:30 am »

Quote from: jester9450 on November 16, 2010, 12:35:05 am

Good for Bourn now if he can get his hitting up to par.

I don't want him to punt on hitting, but you get more shots on goal with his 100m sprint and, of course, blocked shots are just as good as two at the other end in my book.

Deuce.

Outlawscotty · « **Reply #49 on:** November 16, 2010, 10:50:27 am »

Quote from: Lurch on November 16, 2010, 10:35:30 am

I don't want him to punt on hitting, but you get more shots on goal with his 100m sprint and, of course, blocked shots are just as good as two at the other end in my book.

Deuce.

Correct me if I'm wrong Lurchy, but if he gets his hitting up to par, he'd be playing tennis.

austro · « **Reply #50 on:** November 16, 2010, 10:53:21 am »

Quote from: outlawscotty on November 16, 2010, 10:50:27 am

Correct me if I'm wrong Lurchy, but if he gets his hitting up to par, he'd be playing tennis.

Only if he learns how to hit that wicked googly.

geezerdonk · « **Reply #51 on:** November 16, 2010, 10:54:19 am »

Offense and defense are inextricably intertwined, inseparable; each dependent on the other.

S.P. Rodriguez · « **Reply #52 on:** November 18, 2010, 02:06:05 pm »

I'm late in returning to this thread. But late is better than never. This was a fun read. Thanks guys.