Your new hitting coach: Jeff Bagwell

[MusicMan]

Berry out, Bagwell in

Per McTaggart's blog.

[TheWizard]

Hmm, I wonder how many crouched stances we will now see in the lineup??

[Phil_in_CS]

Footer:
http://footer.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/07/berry_dismissed_bagwell_signs.html

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Hmm, I wonder how many crouched stances we will now see in the lineup??

Probably none.

It's too bad for Berry but great to see Bagwell taking such an interest. Bagwell was one of the most aware or heady players I've had had the pleasure of watching. As a fan watching him play, I felt his approach to the game made me appreciate the sport even more. 

[BUWebguy]

Not to say Bagwell can't be a good hitting coach -- I've heard only good things about him working with the younger players -- but I worry that this is a business move, not a baseball move. "Come see franchise star Jeff Bagwell back in uniform!"

Am I being too cynical?

[subnuclear]

Not to say Bagwell can't be a good hitting coach -- I've heard only good things about him working with the younger players -- but I worry that this is a business move, not a baseball move. "Come see franchise star Jeff Bagwell back in uniform!"

Am I being too cynical?

You wouldn't be alone in your cynicism if that were the case.

[TheWizard]

Am I being too cynical?

Nope

[JackAstro]

BUSINESS PLAN

Phase 1: Get Bagwell back in uniform
Phase 2: ?
Phase 3: Profit

[strosrays]

Probably none.

It's too bad for Berry but great to see Bagwell taking such an interest. Bagwell was one of the most aware or heady players I've had had the pleasure of watching. As a fan watching him play, I felt his approach to the game made me appreciate the sport even more. 

He could double as baserunning coach.  He was one of the best baserunners the club ever had, and it would save the franchise some money.

[Alkie]

Look, I'm as cynical as it comes.   Hitting coaches are given too much credit and too much blame.   It's not like they named him GM.

That being said, now you people are going to bitch about having Bagwell back in the dugout/locker room?

[jwhudson]

Baggie in - GREAT
Berry out - Victim of Circumstance
This is the same BS line you use to make changes to your staff and dispose of your most disliked or semi unproductive employee. Does Mills not like him?  Does sound like a way to fill seats. 
Does Biggio come back next?

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I'm as sure that Pam gets a hard-on over potential marketing opportunities as I am of Bagwell not giving a shit about potential marketing opportunities in making his decision.

[Alkie]

I'm as sure that Pam gets a hard-on over potential marketing opportunities as I am of Bagwell not giving a shit about potential marketing opportunities in making his decision.

Bagwell misses roadpussy.   Pam needs to sell tickets.   Problem solved.

[JackAstro]

Bagwell misses roadpussy.   Pam needs to sell tickets.   Problem solved.

As long as we can all agree that Bagwell is a hooker, I think we're good to go here.

[JaneDoe]

Bagwell misses roadpussy.  

Do you know this firsthand?  Why would you taint his reputation even if joking?  He does have a wife and kids, you know.

[Alkie]

Do you know this firsthand?  Why would you taint his reputation even if joking?  He does have a wife and kids, you know.

Have you never heard a single story about Jeff Bagwell?   That guy has fucked around on his wife and kids professionally for years.  That's no secret.

And who gives a shit about his reputation?   You think he reads this site?   He's a PED using cheater who cheat(s/ed) on his family.   None of these are revelations.   Doesn't mean I won't still drive up to Cooperstown when he gets in.

[Noe]

The fact that Houston has been shutout so damn many times this year and in the last 10 games or so the starting pitching has had a 1 plus ERA tells you that this group of guys are not taking a right approach up to the plate.  It's pretty bad when a AAA callup like Chris Johnson has a better clue of what to do at the plate than a major leaguer like Hunter Pence.  Was it entirely Berry's fault?  No, most if not all is on the players.  But if a man of Bagwell's stature speaks, maybe this time a player of Pence's talent will listen.

[Lurch]

He's a PED using cheater   

LIES!!!

But, yeah, the rest of that is probably true.

[JimR]

Berry out, Bagwell in

Per McTaggart's blog.

nothing against The Icon, but i think this sucks.

[Mr. Happy]

nothing against The Icon, but i think this sucks.

Agreed. This smacks of a last ditch ticket marketing effort.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Agreed. This smacks of a last ditch ticket marketing effort.

Yeah, Bagwell is all about marketing and understands that players hit better when there are more asses in the seats.

[Clark in Denver]

Nothing sells tickets better than winning.

[Limey]

The fact that Houston has been shutout so damn many times this year and in the last 10 games or so the starting pitching has had a 1 plus ERA tells you that this group of guys are not taking a right approach up to the plate.  It's pretty bad when a AAA callup like Chris Johnson has a better clue of what to do at the plate than a major leaguer like Hunter Pence.  Was it entirely Berry's fault?  No, most if not all is on the players.  But if a man of Bagwell's stature speaks, maybe this time a player of Pence's talent will listen.

I remember a story that, IIRC, Bagwell and Berkman were trying to get through Pence's thick skull that no one can hit a good slider, so he should stop trying.   How's that working out?

[OregonStrosFan]

Some quotes from Baggy on Footer's blog: LINK

Bagwell on why he is doing this:

"This is 2 1/2 months to see if I'm any good at it. Can I get results out of some of these guys? And ultimately is it something I even want to do?"

It's time for me to do something. Since I left the game, I haven't had to do anything except take care of my kids. There comes a point in time where you realize you have to do something. I'm 42 years old. It's time for me to do something. Truthfully, this is what I know. I know baseball."

"My wife kept on telling me that I had to do something with my life. Our owner told me I have to do something with my life. I told both of them, the only thing I know, I know baseball. I'm not going to go back to school to become a doctor or a lawyer. I know  baseball. This is the path I have to take."

Bagwell's 'message':

"I just want our guys to compete. I'm a big believer in a few things. Get a good pitch to hit and swing hard or whatever your job is to do. A lot of the technical aspect of hitting, we'll work at that early. Once the game starts, we're going to compete. That's going to be my message."

Sorry Alkie, no mention of road-pussy anywhere...

[Alkie]

I wasn't really expecting him to mention it in the press release.  Although he basically did.  Poor guy has nothing to do but spend his millions in early retirement raising his kids.  Quick, get this man some vagina!

[pots]

The fact that Houston has been shutout so damn many times this year and in the last 10 games or so the starting pitching has had a 1 plus ERA tells you that this group of guys are not taking a right approach up to the plate.  It's pretty bad when a AAA callup like Chris Johnson has a better clue of what to do at the plate than a major leaguer like Hunter Pence.  Was it entirely Berry's fault?  No, most if not all is on the players.  But if a man of Bagwell's stature speaks, maybe this time a player of Pence's talent will listen.

I kind of agree.  I hope Berry takes whatever position the Astros offered him.  He seems to be an asset that would hurt if the team lost him. 

But given that every single hitter (except for Kepp) is performing less than or way less than expectations, it's not a surprise.  At this point, I don't see how the Astros could perform worse at the plate.  Watching the Astros hitters at the plate this year is painful.  Talent wise they might be lacking a little, but mentally they're beat before they even step into the box.  Like watching my dog and the new screen door.

[Limey]

"I'm a big believer in a few things. Get a good pitch to hit and swing hard."

I believe him when he says this.  My evidence?  Every single at-bat he ever had.

The trick - Hunter - is to wait for the "good" pitch.  That means a good pitch to hit, not a decent slider that appears in your swing zone only briefly.  If he can teach them to have a smart approach, he would be doing them, and us, a huge service.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I won't argue that this is/was not grossly unfair to Berry.  I think the mgmt group knows this, hence the offer to Berry to stay with the organization.  It's Houston's loss if he chooses to go elsewhere.

But the choice of someone like Bagwell, for the last 2 1/2 months, is clearly an effort to reach the Vets (read: Berkman and Lee) and turn around their respective seasons.  But I also think this is an effort to push Pence to the next level, and that is, I suspect, coming from Pam and Uncle Drayton (to satisfy their need for a "Face of the Franchise").  Bagwell said some nice things about Pence, during Saturday's broadcast (IIRC "I never question his desire to play the game the right way.  And that's not something I can say for a lot of young players.").  I'm taking a leap on that comment and judging it to mean Mr. Bagwell will be sitting with young Pence on many a team flight from here until the end of the season. 

[Noe]

My sarcasm meter is in the repair shop, but I would not like this thread to degenerate (too late apparently) into slander that we cannot protect any of you from.  Just saying.

[Andyzipp]

I really hope that all parties involved aren't stupid enough to think anyone is going to buy a ticket to see Bagwell coach.  I feel bad for Berry, but as has been said a few times in this thread, the offense has been dreadful, and the plate approaches up and down the line-up have been horrid. And since Drayton isn't going to fire Mills until the middle of his third season...

The good news is that Bagwell may have more pull with McLane.  If Bagwell tells McLane, "hey, this Pence kid is never going to figure it out if you keep pushing this face of the franchise bullshit on him" it's going to carry more weight than Brad Mills or even Ed Wade saying the same thing.

If I were Mills, I'd be pretty uncomfortable right now.  If Bagwell is looking for a place to stick his special purpose, you can pretty much guarantee he's going to be the Astros manager within the next several seasons.  For Mills, this has to feel like win soon or else.  Which, I guess, is par for the course working for McLane.

[Ron Brand]

Levine has had some nice columns lately, but one of them from June 30 had numbers on Astros players and their out-of-zone swing percentages:

Here are the 13 Astros position players currently on the active roster ranked by out-of-zone swing percentage (through before Wednesday's game).

Jason Bourgeois 13.8%
Jason Castro 16.0%
Jeff Keppinger 20.1%
Michael Bourn 22.3%
Lance Berkman 22.9%
Geoff Blum 30.6%
Pedro Feliz 31.7%
Jason Michaels 32.2%
Oswaldo Navarro 32.4%
Hunter Pence 32.9%
Carlos Lee 34.0%
Humberto Quintero 40.2%
Chris Johnson 46.3%

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I really hope that all parties involved aren't stupid enough to think anyone is going to buy a ticket to see Bagwell coach.  I feel bad for Berry, but as has been said a few times in this thread, the offense has been dreadful, and the plate approaches up and down the line-up have been horrid. And since Drayton isn't going to fire Mills until the middle of his third season...

The good news is that Bagwell may have more pull with McLane.  If Bagwell tells McLane, "hey, this Pence kid is never going to figure it out if you keep pushing this face of the franchise bullshit on him" it's going to carry more weight than Brad Mills or even Ed Wade saying the same thing.

If I were Mills, I'd be pretty uncomfortable right now.  If Bagwell is looking for a place to stick his special purpose, you can pretty much guarantee he's going to be the Astros manager within the next several seasons.  For Mills, this has to feel like win soon or else.  Which, I guess, is par for the course working for McLane.

I'm looking for the Biggio quote I read earlier, but I wouldn't leave him out of the list of challengers for Mills' job.  That sucks, as I think Mills is doing a good job as skipper.  The team performance is no reflection on the job he's done putting the players in a position to succeed.  They simply have NOT succeeded far more often than they have, obviously. 

[BudGirl]

I thought Ausmus was suppose to be the manager?

[Ron Brand]

I thought Ausmus was suppose to be the manager?

And thus endeth BudGirl's fandom of the Astros...

[geezerdonk]

Lee and Berkman really wanted to get off their fat asses and hit .300 this year but Berry just wasn't willing to put the work in to do it for them.

[Limey]

I thought Ausmus Blum was suppose to be the manager?

FIF Legal Reasons

[Bench]

I won't argue that this is/was not grossly unfair to Berry. 

I can't see how it's grossly unfair to Berry.  The offense has steadily declined over the last four years with Berry at the helm.  Sure, most of that lays at the feet of the players who either, can't/won't learn to change for the better or, in the case of Berkman and Lee, are heading into the twilight of their careers.  But, if you're going to have a position in your organization for "hitting instructor" there are few results to commend Berry's performance.   

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I can't see how it's grossly unfair to Berry.  The offense has steadily declined over the last four years with Berry at the helm.  Sure, most of that lays at the feet of the players who either, can't/won't learn to change for the better or, in the case of Berkman and Lee, are heading into the twilight of their careers.  But, if you're going to have a position in your organization for "hitting instructor" there are few results to commend Berry's performance.   

Really?  Both Bourn and Pence give Berry credit for the work he put in.  As did Berkman.  You're attributing results to the coach, when the players are responsible for execution, which seems to be the failing point.  If you want to put that on  on Berry, go ahead.  I don't. 

[Bench]

Really?  Both Bourn and Pence give Berry credit for the work he put in.  As did Berkman.  You're attributing results to the coach, when the players are responsible for execution, which seems to be the failing point.  If you want to put that on  on Berry, go ahead.  I don't. 

No no, I totally get that.  I think Berry's good at what he does, but his firing is hardly "unfair" in the context of being much of surprise to anyone.  The Astros' offense is and has been abysmal.  The hitting coach takes the fall for that every time.  It's the way it's always been and the way it's always going to be. 

[S.P. Rodriguez]

No no, I totally get that.  I think Berry's good at what he does, but his firing is hardly "unfair" in the context of being much of surprise to anyone.  The Astros' offense is and has been abysmal.  The hitting coach takes the fall for that every time.  It's the way it's always been and the way it's always going to be. 

Ahh... my misunderstanding.  By no means is this an unheard of move, given the results on the field.  Who knows, maybe it will have a positive impact.  It's doubtful but one never can tell. 

[AtascAstro]

hmmm...what other segments of the organization have been in steady decline since 2005 or so?  If you are going to fire the hitting coach for failing to prevent the players from hitting, would you not also fire the head of Business Operations for failing to prevent ticket sales from declining?

[Ron Brand]

No, because winning is what affects ticket sales. Oh, wait...

[Ebby Calvin]

Not a lot of HRs this year.  Fire the train conductor.

[austro]

How do we get rid of the rabbit?

[strosrays]

I wasn't really expecting him to mention it in the press release.  Although he basically did.  Poor guy has nothing to do but spend his millions in early retirement raising his kids.  Quick, get this man some vagina!

Like probably everyone else, I have fantasized from time to time about what it would be like were I to wake up one morning and find myself suddenly, ridiculously rich.  Not that it is about to happen or anything -- the lottery would probably be my only real chance at gazillions, and I almost never play the lottery, so. . .

Anyway, if I did somehow hit it big, I'd probably quit my job and tell 'em all to fuck off, and embark on a life of decadence and stoned liesure.  Probably get lazy and gain twenty pounds, too.  But, I am pretty sure that somewhere in there -- after two years or five years or I am not sure after how long -- I'd wake up one morning thinking, Man, I can't fucking stand this anymore.  And I'd get up and go look for a job.

I'm doubly sure I'd do it if my wife was riding my ass about it, too.  I think I can empathize with Bagwell on that point.

[BudGirl]

How do we get rid of the rabbit?

Here's a couple of ways.

#1

#2

[Alkie]

Here's a couple of ways.

#1

#2

Limey...did you do something with your hair?  You look....different.

[Limey]

How do we get rid of the rabbit?

Myxomatosis.

[MRaup]

Here's a couple of ways.

#1

#2

Also an acceptable answer.

[Andyzipp]

Has Bagwell just morphed into Jimmy Dugan?

[Matt]

Has Bagwell just morphed into Jimmy Dugan?

"Ballplayers."

[outlookdude]

I have no real gripe with Sean Berry. I have heard enough, from enough different places to believe that he is hard working and competent. A lot of the Astros offensive failures have to go to the players. Some of them simply will never be even average ML hitters. However, the overall results have been awful. This is not exactly the first year there has been a problem getting timely hits, or scoring runs. While there has been some success with individuals like Bourn and Pence I don’t think that qualifies as any type justification or redemption. If my overall results at work are poor no one cares that I can point to a successful project or two.

What the Astros have been doing hasn’t been working. They are in no position to fire all the players. So, you try a new voice. Maybe it will help. Maybe not. It can’t really get worse. So, what the hell….

I also have no problem with Bagwell as hitting coach. I have no expectation that any significant number of people are going to buy tickets to see him sit in the dugout. Regardless, a move is not necessarily bad if it presents a promotional opportunity. It is obviously bad if it ONLY serves promotional purposes.

I don’t see this move that way. Bagwell may or may not be a good hitting coach. I think it is reasonable at this point to believe that he has at least has some chance to be a good hitting coach. Time will tell…..if he stays with it for more than 2 ½ months. What I see as the bigger advantage is having him in the clubhouse and dugout. He has a reputation as a leader. I hope that is true, but since I haven’t been in the clubhouse I can’t be sure.

But, the thing that I miss more every day about the Bagwell/Biggio years really has nothing to do with their physical talent. What I miss is that I didn’t see them make mental mistakes. They might make a physical error, but damn near always while trying to make the right play. (I cut Biggio some slack on #3000.) This Astros team makes me crazy with mental errors. Somehow I have to believe that having one more person around who understands the game has to have some benefit, even if it isn’t directly related to hitting. If the Astros make some moves and get significantly younger I think that becomes even more important……..As I type this I wonder why I think Bagwell will have more value than Berry in that role. Maybe it is only my perception based on the way he presents himself and communicates publicly………But, then again that is probably how he gets all the road pussy too. So, we know it works well in some situations.

I’m not jumping up and down for joy, and certainly don’t see Bagwell saving the Astros as a hitting coach. But, it seems like a reasonable thing to try at this point in a losing season. Things can’t get much worse, and there is at least some chance his influence will be a benefit.

[JackAstro]

Noe? Is that you?

[JimR]

you see, folks, very few professional hitters even listen to hitting coaches, much less do what they say. Harvey the Rabbit could be a hitting coach in MLB. it is the guys like Bourn who are trying hard to make it up who listen. most think they know it all.

Berry deserved better.

[Ebby Calvin]

Berry deserved better.

I think we all can agree on this.

An honest question, though: What was it that made Berry such a good hitting coach?  I don't share the analytical baseball mind that most here have, and the only way for me to recognize a hitting instructor's worth is by watching plate discipline and, sadly, statistics.  And to be honest, neither of those have been impressive this year.  I'm not saying any of it is Berry's fault (mainly because I like the guy), and I understand what you said re: players listening.  But if a coach isn't getting through to his players, regardless of whose fault it is, doesn't that spell impending doom?  The proverbial "He lost the team" situation?

Not trying to be argumentative here, just digging for more info.

[Mr. Happy]

I think we all can agree on this.

An honest question, though: What was it that made Berry such a good hitting coach?  I don't share the analytical baseball mind that most here have, and the only way for me to recognize a hitting instructor's worth is by watching plate discipline and, sadly, statistics.  And to be honest, neither of those have been impressive this year.  I'm not saying any of it is Berry's fault (mainly because I like the guy), and I understand what you said re: players listening.  But if a coach isn't getting through to his players, regardless of whose fault it is, doesn't that spell impending doom?  The proverbial "He lost the team" situation?

Not trying to be argumentative here, just digging for more info.

Video work and motivating players to do their own video work. Coach is absolutely correct. Very few MLB hitters listen to *their* hitting coach, yet almost all of them have their own personal "guru" that they consult about their own hitting.