Author Topic: Either  (Read 21477 times)

Alkie

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Either
« on: June 27, 2010, 09:34:14 am »
Either Germany is a fucking machine or England is the worst defensive team in sport.

Alkie

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Re: Either
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2010, 09:42:32 am »
You know who could fuck up anything?   FIFA.   I still don't completely get this sport, but I can say without question that FIFA is a half assed bunch of either corrupt or head-in-the-sand motards.

If you're not going to use replay technology (why would they; they still don't use stop watch technology), at least use one of the FOUR officials on the pitch to see if goals that cross the fucking line get counted.

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« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2010, 09:42:51 am »
Either Germany is a fucking machine or England is the worst defensive team in sport.

It should be level. England's turned it on.
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Alkie

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« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2010, 09:43:42 am »
It should be level. England's turned it on.

Yep.  Still; would it kill England to put a body on Klose?

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« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2010, 09:44:53 am »
Yep.  Still; would it kill England to put a body on Klose?

Oh, I agree. those 2 goals were on ugly defense.
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« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2010, 09:48:14 am »
You know who could fuck up anything?   FIFA.   I still don't completely get this sport, but I can say without question that FIFA is a half assed bunch of either corrupt or head-in-the-sand motards.

If you're not going to use replay technology (why would they; they still don't use stop watch technology), at least use one of the FOUR officials on the pitch to see if goals that cross the fucking line get counted.

I saw it from my hi-def TV in real-time. I kept waiting for the celebration that never came.
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Alkie

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Re: Either
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2010, 09:57:00 am »
Even the GERMAN is calling it a disgrace.

Here's a very real question for the soccer fans here:  Does soccer want to be loved by Americans?  Does soccer (this has always been my guess) simply not care if Americans love soccer?   Does soccer kinda think it would be cool if Americans loved it but can live without their love?

I'm not suggesting for a second that they make changes specifically to make boneheaded burger-eating, Bud Light swilling Americans happy.  I'm just trying to figure out of the foreign soccer fans that know Americans don't get it think it's that Americans don't "get it" because they don't understand it (rules, etc) or if it's that we understand it and that's WHY we dislike it?

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« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2010, 10:04:53 am »
Soccer has made huge inroads in US popularity over the last 15-20 years, probably due to the growth in youth leagues. I'm convinced that a fair amount of the lack of interest falls to demographic lines - I'm old enough that it was at best a curiousity and at worst something the nonathletic kids did in gym while we were practicing the bigger sports.

Consequently, I can see the positive aspects of the sport on an intellectual level, but viscerally - no way. I just don't care enough to add it to the already too-crowded stable of things that fill my life.
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Alkie

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Re: Either
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2010, 10:10:14 am »
Right, I'm asking the soccer fans.  I already know why you and I don't give a fuck about it once the World Cup is over.

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« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2010, 10:13:19 am »
Good point, except I didn't even care while the Cup was going on. At least you gave it a shot.
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Alkie

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« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2010, 10:19:18 am »
Well yeah, like I said, I can appreciate the Cup for what it is.   The world's most massive sporting tournament of a single sport.   Hell, it may even be bigger than the Olympics (I have no idea).

I feel like it's enough of the general sports culture that I should witness it.

But at the end of the day, I'm still finding myself fighting hard to stay interested enough to watch through the matches I have absolutely no dog in (Uruguay/Korea for example).  There are a lot of fundamental things about this sport we've gone over a thousand times here already that bug me about this sport, but I'd like to put my finger on what exactly it is that keeps me from getting excited about major soccer.

I mean, the wife and I can pretty much find it in our asses to watch any major sporting event.   Boxing, tennis, golf, we even watched every minute of the Stanley Cup Finals (which were great).   There's just something about soccer in particular that can't seem to hold my 3-second-attention span.   

Alkie

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« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2010, 10:23:34 am »
Back to the asleep defense  I see.   Crap.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2010, 10:25:43 am by Alkie »

Alkie

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Re: Either
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2010, 10:26:19 am »
No.   No.

England is, in fact, the worst defensive team I've ever seen.   In any sport.

austro

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« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2010, 10:28:17 am »
No.   No.

England is, in fact, the worst defensive team I've ever seen.   In any sport.

At least two guys gave a pretty half-assed effort to catch up to the play there. Either they are really slow, or they've already given up.
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« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2010, 10:28:40 am »
Since I have no goddamn idea what the positions are in soccer...

What the FUCK was the English cornerback doing?   1) He slowed after his man caught the ball.   2) He started looking around for help BEHIND HIM after the receiver was past him.   3)  He peeled off instead of heading for the ball.

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Re: Either
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2010, 10:28:43 am »
England has made me feel better about the USA loss.  Wow, what a clusterfuck.
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Alkie

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« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2010, 10:30:50 am »
England has made me feel better about the USA loss.  Wow, what a clusterfuck.

No doubt.  You almost wonder how we DIDN'T beat the hell out of England now.

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« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2010, 10:33:03 am »
For me it comes down to participation. Did I play the sport? Then I have more than a purely intellectual connection. Is it sufficiently weird that it can transcend that somewhat? If so, like bobsledding, I can get into it to a degree.

I've thrown darts competitively and I can watch darts on tv and be captivated. I didn't play soccer, so I couldn't care less.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2010, 03:04:23 pm by Ron Brand »
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austro

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« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2010, 10:34:34 am »
No doubt.  You almost wonder how we DIDN'T beat the hell out of England now.

It's pretty simple: the US side cannot score goals. It's been a problem for 20 years. They can create some opportunities, but they are terrible finishers.
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Alkie

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« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2010, 10:36:00 am »
Yeah, I doubt that's it.   I played tennis (as a young child), baseball, basketball, football (backyard), and even hockey (once) in Canada.

I have never played golf beyond a Putt Putt and that will never change.  I can still get into a golf Major.   

I suppose it is interesting to note, however, that I never played a minute of soccer outside of Phys Ed.   In fact, I'm the only person I know that didn't have to play organized soccer as a child in El Paso.   So maybe you've got something there.

Alkie

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« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2010, 10:37:07 am »
It's pretty simple: the US side cannot score goals. It's been a problem for 20 years. They can create some opportunities, but they are terrible finishers.

But how is that possible at this level?    If we can't "score goals" how the fuck do we keep fielding a team and qualifying for the WC?

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« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2010, 10:37:30 am »
It's pretty simple: the US side cannot score goals. It's been a problem for 20 years. They can create some opportunities, but they are terrible finishers.

Yes. At least defensively they can hold their own, if it's out of the 15th minute.
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« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2010, 10:48:24 am »
England has made me feel better about the USA loss.  Wow, what a clusterfuck.

I've been thinking about this and, yeah, really.  England BARELY got out of a group that no one wanted to win and then got their asses handed to them; while looking really, really bad.   Sucks too, I was rooting for 'em.

Hard to believe USA can hang their hat on "at least we're not England."

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« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2010, 12:08:37 pm »
It's pretty simple: the US side cannot score goals. It's been a problem for 20 years. They can create some opportunities, but they are terrible finishers.

The best finisher they have they didn't even put on the fucking team. When I read that I thought, OK, fuck you, you're going to get spanked by some third world shithole and you're going to deserve every minute of it. And sure enough.
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« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2010, 12:24:01 pm »
The best finisher they have they didn't even put on the fucking team. When I read that I thought, OK, fuck you, you're going to get spanked by some third world shithole and you're going to deserve every minute of it. And sure enough.

And who would that be?

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« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2010, 12:24:38 pm »
The best finisher they have they didn't even put on the fucking team. When I read that I thought, OK, fuck you, you're going to get spanked by some third world shithole and you're going to deserve every minute of it. And sure enough.

I hope you don't mean Brian Ching, he doesn't have the pace to play in the WC.  Charlie Davies was hurt.  Then who?

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« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2010, 01:08:41 pm »
Ching.
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« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2010, 01:58:55 pm »
Tough day for the refs. Amazing they can blow calls with such aplomb.
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« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2010, 01:59:08 pm »
Even the GERMAN is calling it a disgrace.

Here's a very real question for the soccer fans here:  Does soccer want to be loved by Americans?  Does soccer (this has always been my guess) simply not care if Americans love soccer?   Does soccer kinda think it would be cool if Americans loved it but can live without their love?

I'm not suggesting for a second that they make changes specifically to make boneheaded burger-eating, Bud Light swilling Americans happy.  I'm just trying to figure out of the foreign soccer fans that know Americans don't get it think it's that Americans don't "get it" because they don't understand it (rules, etc) or if it's that we understand it and that's WHY we dislike it?

And now Mexico just got royally buttfucked on another horrible call by the refs. Argentina was way offside and the refs allowed the goal anyway. What a joke of a sport.

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« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2010, 02:02:04 pm »
And now Mexico just got royally buttfucked on another horrible call by the refs. Argentina was way offside and the refs allowed the goal anyway. What a joke of a sport.

I have to say, for a sport with 4 rules and 4 officials, the amount of money and effort that goes into this tournament, I just don't see how such blind stupidity is accepted.

I thought the England non-goal was bad.   That offside was never at any point debatable.   Wow.  He was horselenghts ahead of the defense.

Alkie

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« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2010, 02:02:52 pm »
Well fuck me.

NOW who the fuck am I going to root for?

Chuck, any room on the Uruguay bandwagon?

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« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2010, 02:03:20 pm »
Tough day for the refs. Amazing they can blow calls with such aplomb.

Pretty fucking ridiculous. Really lousy luck for Mexico, especially after they had those near misses of their own.

And then Mexico with the single worst misplay of the tournament.
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« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2010, 02:03:43 pm »
And now Mexico just got royally buttfucked on another horrible call by the refs. Argentina was way offside and the refs allowed the goal anyway. What a joke of a sport.

Right. Because soccer is the only sport where calls get missed. I'm sure you were lobbying hard for replay when Ausmus tied game 4.
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Alkie

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« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2010, 02:03:57 pm »
Yeah, you know who needs free goals?  Argentina.

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« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2010, 02:07:57 pm »
Mexico is basically chum in the water at this point.
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matadorph

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« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2010, 02:11:11 pm »
Right. Because soccer is the only sport where calls get missed. I'm sure you were lobbying hard for replay when Ausmus tied game 4.

I've always been in favor of replay in baseball. Regardless, the umps got that call right. That offside non-call was outrageous.

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« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2010, 02:16:40 pm »
I've always been in favor of replay in baseball. Regardless, the umps got that call right. That offside non-call was outrageous.

I'm pretty sure Ausmus' homer wasn't over the yellow line.

You're right that the non-call was outrageous. But I fail to see how that makes an entire sport a joke.
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« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2010, 02:18:30 pm »
I'm pretty sure Ausmus' homer wasn't over the yellow line

Every replay ever disagrees with you.
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matadorph

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« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2010, 02:20:47 pm »
Yeah, you're 100% wrong about that Bench. Shame on you for disrespecting such a glorious moment in Astros history, all in defense of FUCKING SOCCER.

Bench

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« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2010, 02:25:26 pm »
Every replay ever disagrees with you.

That wouldn't be the first time I misremembered something.
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matadorph

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« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2010, 02:28:03 pm »

You're right that the non-call was outrageous. But I fail to see how that makes an entire sport a joke.


Fair enough. The officiating in this World Cup makes FIFA a fucking joke. Supposedly the World Cup is the most-watched sporting event in the world, therefore the most important, but FIFA won't even use replay technology to get the calls right.

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« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2010, 02:32:20 pm »
Fair enough. The officiating in this World Cup makes FIFA a fucking joke. Supposedly the World Cup is the most-watched sporting event in the world, therefore the most important, but FIFA won't even use replay technology to get the calls right.

FIFA is a remarkably inept organization.
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« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2010, 02:33:34 pm »
I'm pretty sure Ausmus' homer wasn't over the yellow line.

You're right that the non-call was outrageous. But I fail to see how that makes an entire sport a joke.

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« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2010, 02:40:12 pm »
I have never been more disappointed in you in my life. 

It's a confusing moment for all of us. 
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matadorph

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« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2010, 02:42:56 pm »
FIFA is a remarkably inept organization.

This statement jibes with what my soccer-crazed buddy tells me. From what I've seen the last two weeks, I agree.

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« Reply #45 on: June 27, 2010, 02:44:21 pm »
Well, shit. Mexico can't even play Argentina close enough to make FIFA's ineptitude relevant.

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« Reply #46 on: June 27, 2010, 02:51:38 pm »
Hey, what are y'all watching?
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« Reply #47 on: June 27, 2010, 03:00:47 pm »
Chuck, any room on the Uruguay bandwagon?

Dale, pues.
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« Reply #48 on: June 27, 2010, 03:01:35 pm »
Hey, what are y'all watching?

Darts.
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« Reply #49 on: June 27, 2010, 03:01:49 pm »
Dale, pues.

Gracias.   Yo no soy un pinche cherundolo.

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« Reply #50 on: June 27, 2010, 03:03:37 pm »
Gracias.   Yo no soy un pinche cherundolo.

Estas equivocado, eres bien cherundolo.
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« Reply #51 on: June 27, 2010, 03:05:00 pm »
I'm in love with rock and roll and I'll be out all night.

Alkie

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« Reply #52 on: June 27, 2010, 03:06:56 pm »
Well, shit. Mexico can't even play Argentina close enough to make FIFA's ineptitude relevant.

I don't know, man, it'd be 2-1 right now.

Ron Brand

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« Reply #53 on: June 27, 2010, 03:07:38 pm »
Estas equivocado, eres bien cherundolo.

Always trust Yahoo's Babelfish. En ingles, es:

These mistaken, you are cherundolo well.

Bien.
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« Reply #54 on: June 27, 2010, 03:07:54 pm »
Hey, what are y'all watching?

Detroit vs Atlanta
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« Reply #55 on: June 27, 2010, 03:08:29 pm »
Oooh. Captivating.

Would be, but they're not using dart technology and there's already some talk about whether Bartholomew Pennyfeather IV's 20 was actually a 5.

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« Reply #56 on: June 27, 2010, 03:09:30 pm »
Alkie, I am.

I are cherundolo well.

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« Reply #57 on: June 27, 2010, 03:10:17 pm »
Would be, but they're not using dart technology and there's already some talk about whether Bartholomew Pennyfeather IV's 20 was actually a 5.

Can't they just go to the beer goggle replay?
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« Reply #58 on: June 27, 2010, 03:10:43 pm »
Can't they just go to the beer goggle replay?

No.  Takes the human element out of the sport.

austro

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« Reply #59 on: June 27, 2010, 03:12:19 pm »
Oooh. Captivating.

Actually, there really is a darts tournament showing on FSNSW right now.
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« Reply #60 on: June 27, 2010, 03:12:52 pm »
Actually, there really is a darts tournament showing on FSNSW right now.

Aieeeee! I'm there, thanks!
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« Reply #61 on: June 27, 2010, 03:12:56 pm »
Would be, but they're not using dart technology and there's already some talk about whether Bartholomew Pennyfeather IV's 20 was actually a 5.

The fuck do you care? Darts isn't a sport.
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« Reply #62 on: June 27, 2010, 03:14:54 pm »
The fuck do you care? Darts isn't a sport.

Darts gets a pass.   It's so elegant, so beautiful, so culturally important.   

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« Reply #63 on: June 27, 2010, 03:15:28 pm »
This guy John Harkes is really something. It's like spending three hours listening to Fredo Corleone discuss quantum physics.

Anybody know why Maradona wears a watch on both wrists? Is it so he doesn't have to remember which wrist to look at?
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« Reply #64 on: June 27, 2010, 03:15:59 pm »
Actually, there really is a darts tournament showing on FSNSW right now.

I can't imagine watching darts, even if I was one of the participants.

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« Reply #65 on: June 27, 2010, 03:17:07 pm »
This guy John Harkes is really something. It's like spending three hours listening to Fredo Corleone discuss quantum physics.

Harkes, not so oddly, is also the man in charge of the donkey shows for ESPN.

Quote
Anybody know why Maradona wears a watch on both wrists? Is it so he doesn't have to remember which wrist to look at?

Left) Earth time
Right) Time on planet he returns to after matches

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« Reply #66 on: June 27, 2010, 03:17:29 pm »
I can't imagine watching darts, even if I was one of the participants.

Definitely something you have to have a goofy interest in. Color me goofy.

I don't know what year this tournament was in, but "The Power" Taylor will win. He's the Babe Ruth of darts.
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« Reply #67 on: June 27, 2010, 03:19:12 pm »
Definitely something you have to have a goofy interest in. Color me goofy.

I don't know what year this tournament was in, but "The Power" Taylor will win. He's the Babe Ruth of darts.

Hell no, Bartholomew Pennyfluffer's going to kick his ass.
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« Reply #68 on: June 27, 2010, 03:19:28 pm »
Definitely something you have to have a goofy interest in. Color me goofy.

Wait.   Just wait.   Wait some more.  You were being serious?   I played darts for a decade.   I can't imagine watching others play.  Especially people I don't know.

Quote
I don't know what year this tournament was in, but "The Power" Taylor will win. He's the Babe Ruth of darts.

No.   No he isn't.   Unless you mean he's the first black guy to play the sport but gets away with it because people can't tell he's black.

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« Reply #69 on: June 27, 2010, 03:19:54 pm »
Hell no, Bartholomew Pennyfluffer's going to kick his ass.

The III or the IV?   They're both quite good.

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« Reply #70 on: June 27, 2010, 03:21:02 pm »
Wait.   Just wait.   Wait some more.  You were being serious?   I played darts for a decade.   I can't imagine watching others play.  Especially people I don't know.

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« Reply #71 on: June 27, 2010, 03:21:26 pm »
The III or the IV?   They're both quite good.

What the hell are you talking about? I'm talking about snooker.
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« Reply #72 on: June 27, 2010, 03:21:52 pm »
The III or the IV?   They're both quite good.

Oh, sure, Bart IV's good, but he's not Flat Nose Big Lips Ruth good.
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« Reply #73 on: June 27, 2010, 03:22:13 pm »
What the hell are you talking about? I'm talking about snooker.

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« Reply #74 on: June 27, 2010, 03:22:36 pm »

Anybody know why Maradona wears a watch on both wrists? Is it so he doesn't have to remember which wrist to look at?

One is for stoppage time.
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« Reply #75 on: June 27, 2010, 03:22:51 pm »
Beer DOES help.

Play it?  Yes.

Watch it?   No sir.

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« Reply #76 on: June 27, 2010, 03:23:46 pm »
Play it?  Yes.

Watch it?   No sir.

You're missing a titanic match. Phil Taylor hit double ton-80s in the previous game.
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« Reply #77 on: June 27, 2010, 03:24:16 pm »
I've been to Argentina and because of that I do know that the national drink is finely cut grass clippings but what I didn't know is that the all reference material they have in the various barber shops is Rolling Stone Magazine from 1992.
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« Reply #78 on: June 27, 2010, 03:25:33 pm »
You're missing a titanic match. Phil Taylor hit double ton-80s in the previous game.

Oh wait, PHIL Taylor?

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« Reply #79 on: June 27, 2010, 03:27:33 pm »
Oh wait, PHIL Taylor?

Yes, Phil Taylor. The drummer from Motorhead. Good old Phil, good old Lenny.
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« Reply #80 on: June 27, 2010, 03:28:26 pm »
Oh wait, PHIL Taylor?

Yes, now you see. He's drilling the washed-up John Part 4-1.

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« Reply #81 on: June 27, 2010, 03:31:19 pm »
Yes, now you see. He's drilling the washed-up John Part 4-1.

The throwing of darts can approach a state of meditation. After all, we know that state of mind is a major factor in success at the dart board. The addiction of the game stems from the constant craving to come closer and closer to perfection.

There is also the thrill when your game comes together. Is there not pure joy when anyone hits their first 180? It is an ethereal elation to become World Champion.

Every dart player and fan has an obsession with the 9-dart game. Why? It is the symbolic attainment of being one with the game, if only for a fleeting moment.
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« Reply #82 on: June 27, 2010, 03:34:06 pm »
Every dart player and fan has an obsession with the 9-dart game. Why? It is the symbolic attainment of being one with the game, if only for a fleeting moment.

I've never even seen one, although I think Taylor has done it more than anyone else.
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« Reply #83 on: June 27, 2010, 04:32:44 pm »
Ron Brand, offensive golfer, thread killer.

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« Reply #84 on: June 27, 2010, 04:38:40 pm »
Ron Brand, offensive golfer, thread killer.

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« Reply #85 on: June 27, 2010, 05:07:57 pm »
You need a closer, I'm your guy.

Cool, do you think you could join the FEDOR! thread or the ROY OSWALT TALKING LIKE A MAN, A PLAN, A CANAL thread?

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« Reply #86 on: June 27, 2010, 05:12:40 pm »
Cool, do you think you could join the FEDOR! thread or the ROY OSWALT TALKING LIKE A MAN, A PLAN, A CANAL thread?

I'm on it.

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« Reply #87 on: June 27, 2010, 05:14:27 pm »
I'm on it.

Did you know there's new oil being made every day?

My good man, your work is already done here in this thread.   Take these golden nuggets to the other threads that so badly need killing post haste.

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« Reply #88 on: June 27, 2010, 05:26:58 pm »
My good man, your work is already done here in this thread.   Take these golden nuggets to the other threads that so badly need killing post haste.

Sorry. Itchy trigger finger dart wrist.
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« Reply #89 on: June 27, 2010, 06:24:19 pm »
Ching.

A-Freaking-Gree!  Michael Findley is a throw-back to the old USA player...  run, run, run and not know one damn thing about control of the ball and striking it.  But hey, he can run!  Gimme a break.  Ching has much better skill than Findley, so does Adu.  And starting Ricardo Clark is all I needed to know about how much Bradley wanted to make a statement that he was going to do things his way, even if it meant he'd go down in flames.

He did.

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« Reply #90 on: June 27, 2010, 06:25:01 pm »
You know, I went back to that Fedor thread and for some strange reason I thought it was going to be about tennis. No, it's still just Trum and his homo-eroticism. Hey, I'm down, Pride weekend in Houston and all that.
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« Reply #91 on: June 27, 2010, 06:27:33 pm »
Yeah, you're 100% wrong about that Bench. Shame on you for disrespecting such a glorious moment in Astros history, all in defense of FUCKING SOCCER.

You're serious about shaming Bench?  How ironic.

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« Last Edit: June 27, 2010, 06:43:25 pm by Noe in Austin »

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« Reply #92 on: June 27, 2010, 06:32:34 pm »
A-Freaking-Gree!  Michael Findley is a throw-back to the old USA player...  run, run, run and not know one damn thing about control of the ball and striking it.  But hey, he can run!  Gimme a break.  Ching has much better skill than Findley, so does Adu.  And starting Ricardo Clark is all I needed to know about how much Bradley wanted to make a statement that he was going to do things his way, even if it meant he'd go down in flames.

He did.

I don't know if you care about football at all but back in the David Carr years I'd watch the Texans offense "perform" and "execute" and then I'd watch the Sunday or Monday night game and it would seem like I was watching a different sport entirely. It was like that with the US team this Cup. I mean, I said it earlier but they play like a bunch of eight year olds. They have no fucking idea what they're doing. Not that some of them aren't good players or that some of them aren't very athletic but their collective IQ is embarrassing. Contrast their style of play with, say, what we saw today. Both of those teams and especially Argentina have a very, very clear idea of what they're trying to do and how they plan to go about doing it. For a start they control the fucking ball and don't just go kicking it mindlessly around the pitch for no apparent reason. A fullback booming the ball downfield and hoping that one of his guys happens to run under it drives me insane.
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« Reply #93 on: June 27, 2010, 06:51:20 pm »
I don't know if you care about football at all but back in the David Carr years I'd watch the Texans offense "perform" and "execute" and then I'd watch the Sunday or Monday night game and it would seem like I was watching a different sport entirely. It was like that with the US team this Cup. I mean, I said it earlier but they play like a bunch of eight year olds. They have no fucking idea what they're doing. Not that some of them aren't good players or that some of them aren't very athletic but their collective IQ is embarrassing. Contrast their style of play with, say, what we saw today. Both of those teams and especially Argentina have a very, very clear idea of what they're trying to do and how they plan to go about doing it. For a start they control the fucking ball and don't just go kicking it mindlessly around the pitch for no apparent reason. A fullback booming the ball downfield and hoping that one of his guys happens to run under it drives me insane.

World Class play versus great play is a huge gap.  I heard Ian Drake say "that was a World Class play" when talking about Hernandez's play for Mexico's only goal.  His mates were playing on a different level as him and of course the whole Argentine side was playing on a higher level.  What I had hoped was at minimum that the USA side would elevate the play to be much better... World Class... by allowing the makeup of the side to be complimentary and not contradictory.  When Feilharber was inserted into Dempsey's slot at midfield and Dempsey slotted into Findley's spot at forward, the makeup became much better.  Then when Bradley basically admitted to the whole world he had been smoking some bad stuff prior to the game and inserted Edu back at midfield to play as an overlapping defensman, you could see the whole field open up for Bradley.  Clark and Findley are not World Class nor do they add to a World Class side. 

It's one thing for the individual player to be lost, some were, but when a coach decides to misuse the players and puts Clark and Findley on the pitch and they get more touches than anyone else, that tells you the other side is well aware who is on the USA side and who they can afford to allow to touch the ball.  Until you get a full compliment and a coach who knows how to use said full compliment, then the USA will be good enough and talented enough to get through the first round and then World Class takes over and that will be one and done again and again.

It's time to get some seriously well put together squads to go represent and not some hodge-podge, throw that kid over there and this over here type of management.  Shameful.

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« Reply #94 on: June 27, 2010, 09:10:13 pm »
...all reference material they have in the various barber shops is Rolling Stone Magazine from 1992.

There's some fine mullets on that team, starting with the coach.
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« Reply #95 on: June 27, 2010, 10:34:45 pm »
For a start they control the fucking ball and don't just go kicking it mindlessly around the pitch for no apparent reason. A fullback booming the ball downfield and hoping that one of his guys happens to run under it drives me insane.

So, so, true.  How many times to do you have to watch the Ghana defense field your long ball before you start looking for a better means of getting it onto the other half of the pitch.  The US looked very much like outsiders playing someone else's game yesterday.  Pity, they had some nice moments in this Cup.  It is probably good for US Soccer that we avoided being made to look completely foolish by the elite teams in this year's tournament and were able to exit with hopeful disappointment rather than complete humiliation.

However, hope springs in turtles.  We are still a nation of rising talent and there is every reason to believe that the next team will be better. 

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« Reply #96 on: June 28, 2010, 06:47:55 am »
Pity, they had some nice moments in this Cup.

What nice moments?  Beating Algeria in "stoppage time", whatever the fuck that is?  They got lucky and won one game out of four, and that was against the worst team in the group (other than themselves).  No matter how you slice it, that's a piss poor showing.

Quote
It is probably good for US Soccer that we avoided being made to look completely foolish by the elite teams in this year's tournament and were able to exit with hopeful disappointment rather than complete humiliation.

As opposed to being made to look foolish against the no-so-elite teams in this year's tournament?
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« Reply #97 on: June 28, 2010, 07:18:06 am »
What nice moments?  Beating Algeria in "stoppage time", whatever the fuck that is?  They got lucky and won one game out of four, and that was against the worst team in the group (other than themselves).  No matter how you slice it, that's a piss poor showing.

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« Reply #98 on: June 28, 2010, 08:34:01 am »
What nice moments?  Beating Algeria in "stoppage time", whatever the fuck that is?  They got lucky and won one game out of four, and that was against the worst team in the group (other than themselves).  No matter how you slice it, that's a piss poor showing.

As opposed to being made to look foolish against the no-so-elite teams in this year's tournament?

Lots of teams with better talent struggled against the "no-so-elite" teams, and very few of the favorites showed themselves to be dominant against weaker competition.  Germany, Argentina, Uruguay and the Netherlands stood out.  Spain, France, England, Italy, and Portugal all had performances far worse than the US in the opening round.  Ghana is not a crap team, they stayed 1-0 with Germany and were carrying the banner for all of Africa.  It was a disappointing, but not shameful loss for anyone.

Against Slovenia and Algeria I saw organized, possesion oriented attacks that looked like great soccer.  We just don't have enough players to execute that against the best competition.  The comebacks were nice, even if they should never have been. 

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« Reply #99 on: June 28, 2010, 08:36:21 am »
Nocan the Contrarian shows up again.

You think 1 for 4 is quite the inspiring show?
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« Reply #100 on: June 28, 2010, 08:38:54 am »
Against Slovenia and Algeria I saw organized, possesion oriented attacks that looked like great soccer.  We just don't have enough players to execute that against the best competition.  The comebacks were nice, even if they should never have been. 

This isn't Little League.  The World Cup isn't about participation, it's about winning the tournament.  They had a lousy showing, even though they didn't have play any of the elite teams.  I'm not sure how you can spin it any other way.
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« Reply #101 on: June 28, 2010, 08:42:08 am »
Klinsmann on the direction of USA Soccer, this is a transcript of what was said after the US loss to Ghana:

Looking at the game yesterday you had three really quality players that did not live up to their expectations, Landon Donovan, Clint Dempsey and Tim Howard. They were not there. It was not their game last night and if they do not step up to the world stage then you cant expect Michael Bradley and the other ones to pull it all off. 

I think its really important that they lay out a philosophy for US Soccer and say where do we want to go.  I mean hopefully by the end of the US will get the WC 2022… and so you need to know how to develop the players. It is very difficult within the American culture to talk about that topic because you are the only country in the world that has the pyramid upside down.  That means you pay for having your kid play soccer, because your goal is not that your kid becomes professional soccer player because your goal is that your kid gets a scholarship in high school or college.

Which is completely opposite form the rest of the world…and it is a tough one because soccer is very similar to basketball you need it out of the lower class environment. Soccer worldwide is a lower environment sport. We all got up from moderate families and fought our way through. You need to keep this hunger throughout your life and I compare it to basketball because all these guys are coming form the inner cities so you need to find ways, whatever they may be to connect with the Hispanics, connect with everyone and get the kids that are really hungry. To get the kids on a technical level that are able to perform and what I mean by technical level is first touch. The first touch yesterday was not there and you cannot afford those in the WC.
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« Reply #102 on: June 28, 2010, 08:50:14 am »
This isn't Little League.  The World Cup isn't about participation, it's about winning the tournament.  They had a lousy showing, even though they didn't have play any of the elite teams.  I'm not sure how you can spin it any other way.

I called it "hopeful disappointment" and a "pity".  If wanting to claim "moments" of good play is too much "spin" for you then just call me a sunshine pumper.   

Sheesh, talk about a wet blanket.

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« Reply #103 on: June 28, 2010, 09:00:10 am »
I called it "hopeful disappointment" and a "pity".  If wanting to claim "moments" of good play is too much "spin" for you then just call me a sunshine pumper.   

Sheesh, talk about a wet blanket.

Just callin' 'em like I sees 'em.
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« Reply #104 on: June 28, 2010, 09:13:05 am »
You think 1 for 4 is quite the inspiring show?

I think they performed as expected - advance to knockout, then lose.  They are a top 10-15 team in the world, which is exactly where they got knocked out.

But to say there were no nice moments?  The whole second half vs. Slovenia?  The friggin Donovan goal against Algeria?

Look, I get that you're not into it, but if you don't think those were "nice moments", then you're just turning a blind eye as a sports fan - just to be contrary.
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« Reply #105 on: June 28, 2010, 09:18:54 am »
Beautiful Holland goal there
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« Reply #106 on: June 28, 2010, 09:23:38 am »
I think they performed as expected - advance to knockout, then lose.  They are a top 10-15 team in the world, which is exactly where they got knocked out.

But to say there were no nice moments?  The whole second half vs. Slovenia?  The friggin Donovan goal against Algeria?

Look, I get that you're not into it, but if you don't think those were "nice moments", then you're just turning a blind eye as a sports fan - just to be contrary.

I'm looking at the tournament as a whole.  Sure there are individual plays or instances that are nice.  There have been "nice moments" in the Astros season so far, but when they lose 110 games, I won't look back on it with fondness.

And I don't see where they demonstrated they were a top 15 team, let alone a top 10 team.  Yes, they advanced to the round of 16 by virtue of silly happenstance.  But that's not the same as going out and beating teams to get there.  I didn't see anything to indicate they could routinely beat half of the 32 teams in the tournament.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 09:26:28 am by HudsonHawk »
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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« Reply #107 on: June 28, 2010, 09:38:28 am »
To get the kids on a technical level that are able to perform and what I mean by technical level is first touch. The first touch yesterday was not there and you cannot afford those in the WC.

That's the difference between the Americans and the rest of the world in a nutshell.
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Astroholic

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« Reply #108 on: June 28, 2010, 09:52:02 am »
boneheaded burger-eating, Bud Light swilling Americans happy. 

That hurts!

HudsonHawk

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« Reply #109 on: June 28, 2010, 10:00:15 am »
Beautiful Holland goal there

My Dutch friend likes to remind me that the team competing in the World Cup is "the Netherlands", not "Holland".  It's a particular burr under his saddle.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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« Reply #110 on: June 28, 2010, 10:20:16 am »
My Dutch friend likes to remind me that the team competing in the World Cup is "the Netherlands", not "Holland".  It's a particular burr under his saddle.

Your Dutch friend is right.   It would be like if everyone else referred to the USA team as "California."

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« Reply #111 on: June 28, 2010, 10:20:34 am »
That hurts!

Have some more Bud; it'll feel all better.

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« Reply #112 on: June 28, 2010, 10:21:17 am »
They are a top 10-15 team in the world

If that is actually, factually correct, then this sport is in serious trouble.

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« Reply #113 on: June 28, 2010, 10:22:06 am »
Have some more Bud; it'll feel all better.

Nope thats what Hurts. 

Limey

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« Reply #114 on: June 28, 2010, 10:22:24 am »
FWIW, England's defense was horrendous.  4 unbelievably soft goals.  For the German 2nd (IIRC), Glyn Johnson, the right full back, was all the way over in the left full back position.  He was only able to look over embarrassedly as Mueller (again, IIRC) wandered alone in one entire fucking half of the field and slot the easiest of finishes.  They were a shambles.

To me, the most annoying part about the non-goal was that it's given these prize wankers something to talk about other than how completely fucking crap they were this entire tournament.  Which is the truth of it, and the non-goal is irrelevant.

Capello's strategy was horrible.  His squad selection was horrible.  His team selection was horrible.  He gets paid $10mm a year to be this crap.  I didn't know until I read some of the UK press this morning, that he started Milner - who shouldn't be anywhere near an England shirt IMHO - against Algeria, over Joe Cole, when Milner was sick and dehydrated.  He had to sub him after 30 mins.  That's just fucking retarded.  Don't get me started on the theory of taking off Dafoe to put on Heskey - who shouldn't be anywhere near an England shirt IMHO - when down by 3 with 4 minutes left.
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« Reply #115 on: June 28, 2010, 10:25:47 am »
If that is actually, factually correct, then this sport is in serious trouble.

It's a matter of opinion, of course.  But Top 10-15 is a pretty low bar.  Think of many top 15 college football teams in the past several years.  There have been some pretty crappy teams in there.  Nebraska has more trouble scoring than the USMNT, and yet they were top 15 last year.  Would you say CFB is in serious trouble?

Any sport - *any* sport - will have a large gap between the elite teams and the middle of the pack.
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« Reply #116 on: June 28, 2010, 10:28:17 am »
Your Dutch friend is right.   It would be like if everyone else referred to the USA team as "California."

Well, it's more like referring to the United Kingdom team as "England"...wait a minute...
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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« Reply #117 on: June 28, 2010, 10:29:03 am »
Well, it's more like referring to the United Kingdom team as "England"...wait a minute...

The difference being there is no United Kingdom team.
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« Reply #118 on: June 28, 2010, 10:29:48 am »
Your Dutch friend is right.   It would be like if everyone else referred to the USA team as "California."

Wouldn't it be similar to calling us "Yankees".  Historicaly significant reference to the national history but locally representative of a specific region.

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« Reply #119 on: June 28, 2010, 10:30:33 am »
The difference being there is no United Kingdom team.

There is no "Holland" team either...oh, nevermind.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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« Reply #120 on: June 28, 2010, 10:32:30 am »
Wouldn't it be similar to calling us "Yankees".  Historicaly significant reference to the national history but locally representative of a specific region.

It's more like referring to the UK as "England" or when people referred to the USSR as "Russia".  Holland is but one area (two provinces) in the Netherlands.  It's not a nickname for the locals, it *is* the name of a region.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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« Reply #121 on: June 28, 2010, 10:33:26 am »
It's more like referring to the UK as "England" or when people referred to the USSR as "Russia".  Holland is but one area (two provinces) in the Netherlands.  It's not a nickname, it *is* the name of a region.

People can't root for just a portion of a team?
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MusicMan

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« Reply #122 on: June 28, 2010, 10:34:38 am »
People can't root for just a portion of a team?

We hope so.

- Sincerely, Astros under age 30
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« Reply #123 on: June 28, 2010, 10:34:47 am »
People can't root for just a portion of a team?

Of course they can.  I do that all the time.  I never root for the shortstop.  Bunch of pansies.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

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« Reply #125 on: June 28, 2010, 10:38:35 am »
"If the Few had defended as badly as England we'd all be speaking German now"

Again...there's Flea...right there on the cover of the Daily Mail.  What *is* their fascination with him?
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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« Reply #126 on: June 28, 2010, 10:47:40 am »
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

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« Reply #127 on: June 28, 2010, 11:18:51 am »
Lots of teams with better talent struggled against the "no-so-elite" teams, and very few of the favorites showed themselves to be dominant against weaker competition.  Germany, Argentina, Uruguay and the Netherlands stood out.  Spain, France, England, Italy, and Portugal all had performances far worse than the US in the opening round.  Ghana is not a crap team, they stayed 1-0 with Germany and were carrying the banner for all of Africa.  It was a disappointing, but not shameful loss for anyone.

Against Slovenia and Algeria I saw organized, possesion oriented attacks that looked like great soccer.  We just don't have enough players to execute that against the best competition.  The comebacks were nice, even if they should never have been. 


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« Reply #128 on: June 28, 2010, 11:26:51 am »
The US team is average AT BEST.  

No team comes ready made, microwave and cook three seconds and you have a five course meal.  What the USA squad showed is where it's improved from previous years and where it needs to improve on next.  It's like the 90s version of the Houston Astros.  In teh mid 90s, they were getting better and better, by 1997, that squad was good, playoff bound but not elite.  By 1998/1999, that was a World Series contending team.  You look at the USA team and realize just how much better (not average) they were.  Where they go from here is promising, because USA futbol is now based on skill and not so much about running all the time.  Get a World Class coach, some really amazing young players like Adu for the future and put together a plan to really have a coming out party in the years to come.

If you expected this team to be World beaters *this* World Cup, you had the wrong expectations.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 11:54:38 am by Noe in Austin »

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« Reply #129 on: June 28, 2010, 11:32:04 am »
And yeah, I think it also hurts the sport that the same 4 teams keep winning the World Cup, except for the host country here and there. 

Oi !
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« Reply #130 on: June 28, 2010, 11:36:16 am »
It's a matter of opinion, of course.  But Top 10-15 is a pretty low bar.  Think of many top 15 college football teams in the past several years.  There have been some pretty crappy teams in there.  Nebraska has more trouble scoring than the USMNT, and yet they were top 15 last year.  Would you say CFB is in serious trouble?

Any sport - *any* sport - will have a large gap between the elite teams and the middle of the pack.

And the ranking is not based on just the World Cup, it is based on what you do as a National Team leading up to the World Cup.  Your showings in qualification and some of the friendly matches will endorse your ranking (albeit, the friendly matches can be a big joke).  But there are also pre-World Cup tournaments, like last year's Confederations Cup.  The USA had a great showing at that tournament, it was the coming out party for Dempsey, Altidore and Bradley.

But just like, say, a Texas Longhorn basketball team being ranked number one during the pre-tournament phases of the season (re: regular season, when they beat such teams as Michigan State, et. al.) and then falling rapidly to a middle of the pack standing during March Madness tournament play, it can happen to a squad that the chemistry built during the qualifications and such will be lost if a organization does not realize they are messing with a good thing if they make mistakes picking their final squad to go to the World Cup.  

In the end, the USA played great futbol at midfield most of the time, really horrid defensive futbol most of the time and so-so to disappointing futbol at the attack/finish positions.  Altidore was shut down, many times by his own doing and that hurt.  Findley was a mistake, plain and simple... he has no skills being a finisher (although he may develop that later in his career, but he was picked at the wrong time to be on the World Stage trying to be a finisher... he was piss poor).  You cannot, in the end, show well against World Class teams in the final round of 16 unless you have all facets of the game working.  Was it the players?  I don't think so, not entirely at least.  Bob Bradley has to look long and hard in the mirror, just like Bruce Arena did, and accept blame for his wild assumptions about some of his players performing on the the big stage.  He had a chance had he stayed true to players skills, like a Feilharber and Edu over Clarke and Findley.

So while I agree 100% with Jurgen Klingsmen to an extent, I think it's time that a coach who has performed on the World Cup tournament takes over.  If it's an American, then fine.  If it's a former player from Europe, I'm cool with that too.  It's time to make the American skills better at playing on the World Stage because they CAN do it.  Now let's see if the strategy and poise can match the evolving skills of this squad.  This World Cup proved that they are ready to move to the next step and become what all those fans who invested in them this time around were hoping for.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 11:39:50 am by Noe in Austin »

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« Reply #131 on: June 28, 2010, 11:49:53 am »
FWIW, England's defense was horrendous.  4 unbelievably soft goals.  For the German 2nd (IIRC), Glyn Johnson, the right full back, was all the way over in the left full back position.  He was only able to look over embarrassedly as Mueller (again, IIRC) wandered alone in one entire fucking half of the field and slot the easiest of finishes.  They were a shambles.

To me, the most annoying part about the non-goal was that it's given these prize wankers something to talk about other than how completely fucking crap they were this entire tournament.  Which is the truth of it, and the non-goal is irrelevant.

Capello's strategy was horrible.  His squad selection was horrible.  His team selection was horrible.  He gets paid $10mm a year to be this crap.  I didn't know until I read some of the UK press this morning, that he started Milner - who shouldn't be anywhere near an England shirt IMHO - against Algeria, over Joe Cole, when Milner was sick and dehydrated.  He had to sub him after 30 mins.  That's just fucking retarded.  Don't get me started on the theory of taking off Dafoe to put on Heskey - who shouldn't be anywhere near an England shirt IMHO - when down by 3 with 4 minutes left.

Con-freaking-cur!

Although the idea of a sensor on the goal line would be an improvement that is not that hard to implement.  In the end, the Germans were going to beat England because they were just that much better on the day.

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« Reply #132 on: June 28, 2010, 11:56:24 am »
No team comes ready made, microwave and cook three seconds and you have a five course meal.  What the USA squad showed is where it's improved from previous years and where it needs to improve on next.  It's like the 90s version of the Houston Astros.  In teh mid 90s, they were getting better and better, by 1997, that squad was good, playoff bound but not elite.  By 1998/1999, that was a World Series contending team.  You look at the USA team and realize just how much better (not average) they were.  Where they go from here is promising, because USA futbol is now based on skill and not so much about running all the time.  Get a World Class coach, some really amazing young players like Adu for the future and put together a plan to really have a coming out party in the years to come.

If you expected this team to be World beaters *this* World Cup, you had the wrong expectations.

Oh man, this a huge mistake on my part, pushed the wrong button (Modify instead of quote) because a friend walked by and talked to me as I was getting ready to type.  Sorry about his Alkie, not my intent at all.

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« Reply #133 on: June 28, 2010, 12:05:18 pm »
If you expected this team to be World beaters *this* World Cup, you had the wrong expectations.

I had zero expectations.   I hadn't a clue what to expect.  But I do know that a lot of people in the States were in fact talking about USA making a serious run.  I don't think anyone was talking World Champs, but the expectations I heard were definitely for more than a 2nd round knock out by Ghana.

I'll go back to my old theory, which was that in a week or two, no one in America that didn't already like soccer will start liking soccer because of this World Cup.   If anything, I think this WC has reinforced most soccer-intolerant Americans' biggest problems with the sport.   Do the American sports (namely basketball and baseball) have major problems?  Of course.  The difference is, Americans were already watching and playing those sports, so they're willing to overlook the Jim Joyce call and the NBA Finals "officiating" (which is also clearly rigged).   

I just think you've got a hard sale and this WC didn't make it easier.

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« Reply #134 on: June 28, 2010, 12:17:41 pm »
I had zero expectations.   I hadn't a clue what to expect.  But I do know that a lot of people in the States were in fact talking about USA making a serious run.

I was not expecting World Cup championship or anything like that, but I was expecting excitement based on what they did in the Confederations Cup.  And when you play all out like they did at the Confederations Cup, you can do some unexpected things... like beat Spain 2-0 and take Brazil to a wild ride where they had to pull all stops to mount a comeback win over these pesky upstarts.  My personal expectations were that these Americans were going to do the same, make it really hard to ignore them.  And I say by and large, they did that, they served notice to many that they're a squad to watch for the future.

They are no longer like a bunch of puppies running all around a field chasing a toy.  They've grown so much as a squad, they're going to be reckoned with soon enough. 


Quote
I don't think anyone was talking World Champs, but the expectations I heard were definitely for more than a 2nd round knock out by Ghana.

Really?  FWIW - I posted my concerns for this USA match against a really good Black Stars squad.  The match-up scared me and I thought Bradley had much more sense than he did.  He gave Ghana the edge in the first 20 minutes of the match.  It's one thing to fight against the opponent, but when you have to fight against your own coach's ideas and strategy, it's way too much to overcome.  That doesn't smack as average squad to me, it smacks as a squad who was at it's level best not prime and equiped to go further because they just didn't have the strategy to beat Ghana in place.

Quote
I'll go back to my old theory, which was that in a week or two, no one in America that didn't already like soccer will start liking soccer because of this World Cup.

That is not the intent of the USMNT, that is for marketing people.  The intent of the USMNT is to improve year after year and right now it's about getting as much as these players as they can into Academies and European training (even S. American and Mexican training Academies) as they can.  The skill level is vastly improved.  Stay with that focus for the squad, they cannot control whether the average American cares or not... that's not their driving ideal.

Quote
If anything, I think this WC has reinforced most soccer-intolerant Americans' biggest problems with the sport.   Do the American sports (namely basketball and baseball) have major problems?  Of course.  The difference is, Americans were already watching and playing those sports, so they're willing to overlook the Jim Joyce call and the NBA Finals "officiating" (which is also clearly rigged). 

I thought we were talking about the sport and focusing on the USMNT.  They have nothing to do with American culture.  That is a different discussion altogether.  Like the Urban Baseball problem that Joe Morgan and others raised a few years back.  

Quote
I just think you've got a hard sale and this WC didn't make it easier.

I wouldn't want that marketing job.  I'd rather watch the sport and see the value for what it is... a vastly improving American side that in years to come will accomplish greater things.  I don't sell anything, I watch and enjoy.

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« Reply #135 on: June 28, 2010, 12:22:59 pm »
Cool; I'm down with that.

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« Reply #136 on: June 28, 2010, 12:45:59 pm »
Bob Bradley speaks!  This is a very frank assessment by the coach about his squads shortcomings.  One thing I will not concur with him though is using Davies absence as an excuse (although I agree that Davies did compliment Altidore really well at the Confederations Cup).  Bradley saw how good Feilharber played against Algeria (truth be told, the USA squad should have won 2-0 or 2-1 or so against Algeria way before they had to rely on Donovan's golden goal).  He saw how well Edu helped the defense and also had the keen touch to start many attacks with his good distribution from the midfield central defense position.  Edu knew how to stay out of Michael Bradley's way and allow him space to create.  He didn't try to dribble his way past forwards like Clarke did, a really inferior style of play by what is supposed to be a World Class side... you never play like that... EVER!  Edu's instead used distributions to the wings to start and attack  by drawing the defenders towards him in the middle of the field, ultimately opened up the middle for Bradley.  Bradley then fed Feilharber, Donovan, Dempsey and Altidore beautifully, all making for good attacks.  

This is where I agree with Bradley... they were just not finished well.  Too little too late Bob... you kind of created this mess by taking Findley and several others with you to the World Cup.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 12:48:48 pm by Noe in Austin »

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« Reply #137 on: June 28, 2010, 01:11:30 pm »
SI article about the aftermath (respect) for the USA side.  I know I said I don't care about how Joe Average Sports Fan sees this tournament outcome, and I hold true to that.  But this is such a fine piece in some of it's highlights about what we can like, nay, even love about the tournament showing.  First, what this article points out as the reality of the whole matter:

Quote
The United States' run in South Africa has been dead for two days now and, from a very wide angle view, they did what almost everyone expected that they would: they reached the tournament's second round, and then they lost. But even as we contemplate what might have been -- had only their defenders defended a little better; had only their strikers struck a little more precisely; had only coach Bob Bradley made wiser personnel decisions; then they might have beaten Ghana, instead of losing 2-1 in overtime, and then they could have taken advantage of the easiest imaginable route to the semifinals, and then, who knows -- it's worth, as the disappointment lingers, considering all that they did accomplish here.

He speaks of what the world fans pretty much expected by the USA squad and of course, what might have been if the factors cited (and of course talked about here) not cropped up so much.  There is more:

Quote
In short, this iteration of the U.S. Men's National Team was that rarest of things: an American sports team (an American anything, for that matter) for whom non-Americans could actually allow themselves to root, or at least to genuinely respect.

Truly a great thing to read in terms of fan appreciation for a showing by a National side at the World Cup.  Next comes the proverbial "kicking the door down" aspect of a showing at the tournament, the US side should not settle for this, they need to build on this.  More:

Quote
That sentiment extended some 6,000 miles north, to London's Fleet Street, home to newspapers and tabloids that delight in needling and criticizing the U.S. -- and who often refer to the United States as "Little Brother" -- but, in this case, did not. After the U.S.'s 2-2 draw against Slovenia, that would have likely been a 3-2 win if not for Malian referee Koman Coulibay, the Telegraph called the team's performance "one of the most uproarious stories of this World Cup"; named Donovan "the best crosser of a ball in this tournament"; and deemed the U.S. effort "the finest comeback seen here yet." As the Ghana match approached, the Guardian admiringly wrote of "the stylistically limited but undeniably dogged efforts of Bradley's squad." And in the wake of the ultimate loss, the Mirror noted that "the USA never lay down" and that "The USA keep showing they have character in abundance."

A taxi driver, a group of men in a township, the analysts on Fleet Street -- even the horde of facepainted British fans who stopped Americans on the streets in Cape Town and shook their hands while solemnly and respectfully nodding -- all of this, clearly, represents a small sample size indeed. But it is not a stretch to believe that the way the U.S. Men's National Team played here earned them far-ranging admiration among the soccer-watching global public -- not for their skill or talent, in most cases, but for their style, and, most simply, for their effort. It's even harder to measure whether their performance might have done anything to change foreign views of the U.S. that extend beyond soccer, but we can imagine their fluent and workmanlike effort might have done something in that regard, too. "Everyone told me that Americans are an arrogant lot," said Rousseau, "but there've been loads of them around, and they seem like good people to me."

Definitely time to grow from this and next time, it won't be respect, but fear that the US side can elicit from other World Sides.  One can only hope.

Matt

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Re: Either
« Reply #138 on: June 28, 2010, 01:15:04 pm »
Bob Bradley speaks!  This is a very frank assessment by the coach about his squads shortcomings.  One thing I will not concur with him though is using Davies absence as an excuse (although I agree that Davies did compliment Altidore really well at the Confederations Cup).  Bradley saw how good Feilharber played against Algeria (truth be told, the USA squad should have won 2-0 or 2-1 or so against Algeria way before they had to rely on Donovan's golden goal).  He saw how well Edu helped the defense and also had the keen touch to start many attacks with his good distribution from the midfield central defense position.  Edu knew how to stay out of Michael Bradley's way and allow him space to create.  He didn't try to dribble his way past forwards like Clarke did, a really inferior style of play by what is supposed to be a World Class side... you never play like that... EVER!  Edu's instead used distributions to the wings to start and attack  by drawing the defenders towards him in the middle of the field, ultimately opened up the middle for Bradley.  Bradley then fed Feilharber, Donovan, Dempsey and Altidore beautifully, all making for good attacks.  

This is where I agree with Bradley... they were just not finished well.  Too little too late Bob... you kind of created this mess by taking Findley and several others with you to the World Cup.

I knew with his starting lineup against Ghana that it would not start or end well.

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Re: Either
« Reply #139 on: June 28, 2010, 01:17:25 pm »
I knew with his starting lineup against Ghana that it would not start or end well.

You should have heard the reaction I had when they announced the lineup.  My wife told me I scared the dog who was with her in the kitchen.  I was watching in our upstairs bedroom because I didn't want to be too loud downstairs with all my screaming.  Who would have thought the first reaction would have been about the lineup!

"CLARKE!!!  ARE YOU KIDDING ME BOB!!! OH MY GOD!!!"

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Re: Either
« Reply #140 on: June 28, 2010, 01:21:03 pm »
You should have heard the reaction I had when they announced the lineup.  My wife told me I scared the dog who was with her in the kitchen.  I was watching in our upstairs bedroom because I didn't want to be too loud downstairs with all my screaming.  Who would have thought the first reaction would have been about the lineup!

"CLARKE!!!  ARE YOU KIDDING ME BOB!!! OH MY GOD!!!"

The whole bar let out a collective groan when they put the lineup on the screen.

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Re: Either
« Reply #141 on: June 28, 2010, 01:32:53 pm »
The whole bar let out a collective groan when they put the lineup on the screen.

I was going back and forth in my own mind of whether Edu should start.  But if I were going to sit Edu, I would put Feilharber in waaaay before Clarke, who has no real position when he's on the pitch with Bradley.  He's a shadow of what Bradley does on the field and a really bad defensive midfielder.  The first goal was a direct result of Clarke's penchant for dribbling wildly and giving away a ball to a speedy Black Stars forward.  Many blamed Howard for taking a bad line on the shot, but it is hard to play keeper when you're facing an attack like that.  You take the best guess where the shot is going to go and if you guess wrong.  All in all, when Bradley took Clarke out only 20 minutes into the match, he basically said to the world that he did not know what he was doing.  Putting in Edu was good, it stablized the back line to play more defense instead of trying to challenge the Ghana forwards for the ball.

Starting Findley instead of Feilharber also told you how much Bradley outsmarted himself.  Findley played for an entire half and never once touched the ball or made himself available.  Moving Dempsey up and insert Feilharber into the match realized a great opportunity only one minute after the switch was made.  Man, just thinking about those two moves makes me upset again. *sigh*  It's like watching Larry Dierker manage a playoff against Bobby Cox all over again!

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Re: Either
« Reply #142 on: June 28, 2010, 01:49:26 pm »
It's like watching Larry Dierker manage a playoff against Bobby Cox all over again!

Dude, not cool.

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Re: Either
« Reply #143 on: June 28, 2010, 01:51:07 pm »
I was going back and forth in my own mind of whether Edu should start.  But if I were going to sit Edu, I would put Feilharber in waaaay before Clarke, who has no real position when he's on the pitch with Bradley.  He's a shadow of what Bradley does on the field and a really bad defensive midfielder.  The first goal was a direct result of Clarke's penchant for dribbling wildly and giving away a ball to a speedy Black Stars forward.  Many blamed Howard for taking a bad line on the shot, but it is hard to play keeper when you're facing an attack like that.  You take the best guess where the shot is going to go and if you guess wrong.  All in all, when Bradley took Clarke out only 20 minutes into the match, he basically said to the world that he did not know what he was doing.  Putting in Edu was good, it stablized the back line to play more defense instead of trying to challenge the Ghana forwards for the ball.

Starting Findley instead of Feilharber also told you how much Bradley outsmarted himself.  Findley played for an entire half and never once touched the ball or made himself available.  Moving Dempsey up and insert Feilharber into the match realized a great opportunity only one minute after the switch was made.  Man, just thinking about those two moves makes me upset again. *sigh*  It's like watching Larry Dierker manage a playoff against Bobby Cox all over again!

I thought Timmy's attempted save could have been a bit better than it was but he's still an excellent keeper.  I do think his concentration and reaction speed isn't quite up to par early in the games as it is later but maybe he hasn't been used to this poor defense playing for Everton.

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Re: Either
« Reply #144 on: June 28, 2010, 03:08:18 pm »
NY Times article on the Dutch De Toekomst academy.  Serious business over there in Holland.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 03:10:58 pm by Noe in Austin »

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Re: Either
« Reply #145 on: June 28, 2010, 03:17:43 pm »
NY Times article on the Dutch De Toekomst academy.  Serious business over there in Holland.

It has the same type of approach as tennis prodigies and Gymnast prodigies (maybe swimming too, definitely music prodigies).  I have a friend who lives in Turkey (Turkish husband, she's an American).  Their son is a futbol prodigy and several European and the Turkish academies have come calling.  He's in middle school, a very good kid.  The problem is that he is also a genius mind and would rather study and get a great college education.  He would rather be a scholar than a futbol star.  The family is torn, Dad wants him to commit to futbol, Mom loves the fact that son wants to be scholar.  He loves futbol, he's a natural at it.  But he loves discovery more and an education really intrigues him more.

I have no idea what eventually they're going to choose to do, have not kept up with them, but I know last year they were talking serious about having to make a decision now (and not later when it would be too late... like say, high school).

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Re: Either
« Reply #146 on: June 28, 2010, 04:59:29 pm »
It is kind of crazy, the article wraps up with a scouting trip to see a 5 YEAR OLD!  Granted, the kid sounded pretty good (he was scoring in a 7-9 yr old league) but that is crazy.

The article specifically talked about how US Soccer was working hard to sever the tie with academics (ie college ball), because it simply doesn't provide the optimal environment for elite players.  Interesting contrast between the US approach, which ironically was much more socially oriented (what is best for the whole), versus the rest of the world which focuses on what is best for the individual player. 

Perspective is everything.  The best system for the USMNT is probably not the best system for my kid.  It sounds like they are aiming for a system like baseball, where the truly elite players are signed directly to the pros, leaving the collegiate game to kids who, though talented, aren't willing to gamble everything on a pro career.

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Re: Either
« Reply #147 on: June 28, 2010, 08:07:58 pm »
Oh man, this a huge mistake on my part, pushed the wrong button (Modify instead of quote) because a friend walked by and talked to me as I was getting ready to type.  Sorry about his Alkie, not my intent at all.

Chuck just pointed out what happened here.

Which post of mine did you delete?  I'm sure it was my best point of the day.

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Re: Either
« Reply #148 on: June 28, 2010, 08:10:05 pm »
Chuck just pointed out what happened here.

Which post of mine did you delete?  I'm sure it was my best only point of the day.

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Re: Either
« Reply #149 on: June 28, 2010, 08:35:19 pm »
No team comes ready made, microwave and cook three seconds and you have a five course meal.  What the USA squad showed is where it's improved from previous years and where it needs to improve on next.  It's like the 90s version of the Houston Astros.  In teh mid 90s, they were getting better and better, by 1997, that squad was good, playoff bound but not elite.  By 1998/1999, that was a World Series contending team.  You look at the USA team and realize just how much better (not average) they were.  Where they go from here is promising, because USA futbol is now based on skill and not so much about running all the time.  Get a World Class coach, some really amazing young players like Adu for the future and put together a plan to really have a coming out party in the years to come.

If you expected this team to be World beaters *this* World Cup, you had the wrong expectations.

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Re: Either
« Reply #150 on: June 28, 2010, 08:37:35 pm »
Hello?

No.  That's what Noe said.   I don't remember what I said to get this response.   And seriously, just going by Noe's post is not exactly helpful.

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Re: Either
« Reply #151 on: June 28, 2010, 08:38:38 pm »
And, as far as I can tell, your original post:

Quote
And yeah, I think it also hurts the sport that the same 4 teams keep winning the World Cup, except for the host country here and there.
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Re: Either
« Reply #152 on: June 28, 2010, 08:39:58 pm »
By the way, can't you read the thread like anyone else can? Why the hell am I doing all the legwork?
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Re: Either
« Reply #153 on: June 28, 2010, 08:41:29 pm »
By the way, can't you read the thread like anyone else can? Why the hell am I doing all the legwork?

So I don't have to?

ETA:  Wow.  That was my 10,000th post?   That sucks.

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Re: Either
« Reply #154 on: June 28, 2010, 08:55:37 pm »
So I don't have to?

ETA:  Wow.  That was my 10,000th post?   That sucks.

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