Roy O to Phillies

[OregonStrosFan]

So lets see. If Cliff Lee ends up being traded to the Yankees by Seattle (which appears like a distinct possibility) then the Yankees castoff Vasquez becomes the best available pitcher on the market?  Mmmmm, okay Olney, whatever you say...

[toddthebod]

I think it would be awesome if the Yankees got Lee.  It will make the Mets go insane, which will put more pressure on them to go out and trade for a top-line pitcher (and the Yankees are not trading Vazquez to them).  The more teams looking for pitching the better.   

[moriartp]

So lets see. If Cliff Lee ends up being traded to the Yankees by Seattle (which appears like a distinct possibility) then the Yankees castoff Vasquez becomes the best available pitcher on the market?  Mmmmm, okay Olney, whatever you say...

Contender trading away a star pitcher? That can't possibly go wrong!

Seriously, just ask the Phillies. I'm sure they're still thrilled that they traded Lee after last season.

[matadorph]

So lets see. If Cliff Lee ends up being traded to the Yankees by Seattle (which appears like a distinct possibility) then the Yankees castoff Vasquez becomes the best available pitcher on the market?  Mmmmm, okay Olney, whatever you say...

That is almost as retarded as the persistent, idiotic statements about Roy's contract supposedly devaluing his trade value to nothing but a package of B- prospects.

[Jose Cruz III]

And maybe Giada and Rachael Ray will offer to make me dessert.

Somewhere in Blue Jay land last August Ms. Ray possibly made some fan a cheesecake.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

That is almost as retarded as the persistent, idiotic statements about Roy's contract supposedly devaluing his trade value to nothing but a package of B- prospects.

Eh... it's part media-whoring, part rival GM manipulation, and part lack of brain cells if you ask me.  I'll be shocked if McLane ok's a discount deal for Oswalt (or Lee and Berkman) or picks up money on getting two MLB ready prospects in return along with one or two other high risk/high reward prospects as well.  That's not based on any actual info, just my speculation. 

[OregonStrosFan]

Cross the Rangers off your list of potential Oswalt suitors. "Confirmed" reports of a Cliff Lee + cash for Smoak + 3 trade.

[AtascAstro]

Cross the Rangers off your list of potential Oswalt suitors. "Confirmed" reports of a Cliff Lee + cash for Smoak + 3 trade.

Not all bad.  Cliff Lee is out of the equation and the fan/media focus will have to move to the next best option.  Like a guy that just pitched a 1 hitter.  Very good for the Astros to get this done well ahead of the deadline.  Now they can benefit from a long runnup.

Also, it sounds like this deal set a pretty high bar.

[Matt]

Not all bad.  Cliff Lee is out of the equation and the fan/media focus will have to move to the next best option.  Like a guy that just pitched a 1 hitter.  Very good for the Astros to get this done well ahead of the deadline.  Now they can benefit from a long runnup.

Also, it sounds like this deal set a pretty high bar.

I wonder if Oswalt would approve a move to Anaheim.

[subnuclear]

Ken Rosenthal says that Oswalt has ruled out Tigers and White Sox and "others."   

http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/18136941086

Mets are prioritizing Ted Lilly :

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/oswalt-would-not-accept-trade-to-white-sox-tigers.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+MlbTradeRumors+(MLB+Trade+Rumors)

[OregonStrosFan]

Ken Rosenthal says that Oswalt has ruled out Tigers and White Sox and "others."   

http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/18136941086

Mets are prioritizing Ted Lilly :

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/oswalt-would-not-accept-trade-to-white-sox-tigers.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+MlbTradeRumors+(MLB+Trade+Rumors)

I know Peavey is out for most (or all) of this season, but his is still under contract with the ChiSox until 2012. I'm having a difficult time believing Roy would refuse to be traded to his double-BFF-squared-to-infinity's team and have the opportunity to pitch with him for potentially two years (not to mention that I doubt Robothal, as most national baseball 'writers,' on most anything Astros related as a general rule...).

[Matt]

I know Peavey is out for most (or all) of this season, but his is still under contract with the ChiSox until 2012. I'm having a difficult time believing Roy would refuse to be traded to his double-BFF-squared-to-infinity's team and have the opportunity to pitch with him for potentially two years (not to mention that I doubt Robothal, as most national baseball 'writers,' on most anything Astros related as a general rule...).

Last year Peavy didn't want to go to the White Sox or any AL team at first and then suddenly something changed.  Or reporters don't know shit and the idea of him not wanting to go was pure bullshit in the first place.

[JackAstro]

Ken Rosenthal says that Oswalt has ruled out Tigers and White Sox and "others."  

http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/18136941086

Mets are prioritizing Ted Lilly :

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/oswalt-would-not-accept-trade-to-white-sox-tigers.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+MlbTradeRumors+(MLB+Trade+Rumors)

I see. So "anywhere to contend" doesn't include the two teams virtually tied at the top of the AL Central? Either Rosenthal or Roy is full of shit.

[Ron Brand]

Or both.

[JimR]

I know Peavey is out for most (or all) of this season, but his is still under contract with the ChiSox until 2012. I'm having a difficult time believing Roy would refuse to be traded to his double-BFF-squared-to-infinity's team and have the opportunity to pitch with him for potentially two years (not to mention that I doubt Robothal, as most national baseball 'writers,' on most anything Astros related as a general rule...).

Rosenthal gets much of his information from scouts. i have been around when such calls occur.

[Lurch]

I see. So "anywhere to contend" doesn't include the two teams virtually tied at the top of the AL Central? Either Rosenthal or Roy is full of shit.

Or he wants to contend in the playoffs but not for a playoff spot.

[cc]

Rosenthal gets much of his information from scouts. i have been around when such calls occur.

I just knew you were his "source," Jim, I knew it!

[JimR]

I just knew you were his "source," Jim, I knew it!

unfortunately, no. someone else had the phone.

[OregonStrosFan]

Rosenthal gets much of his information from scouts. i have been around when such calls occur.

Good to know.

[moriartp]

Last year Peavy didn't want to go to the White Sox or any AL team at first and then suddenly something changed.  Or reporters don't know shit and the idea of him not wanting to go was pure bullshit in the first place.

He killed a trade to the ChiSox earlier that season, so it wasn't just media BS.

Another thought on Roy not wanting to go to Chicago: earlier this season, when the White Sox were really scuffling, Williams made comments about being open to rebuilding. Peavy said that he'd want to play somewhere else if the team went in that direction. He may not have good things to say about the White Sox organization, and Roy probably doesn't want to go to a team that has considered a rebuild in the past five years. I'm sure Roy wants to play with Peavy, but things might be more complex than all that.

[JackAstro]

Or he wants to contend in the playoffs but not for a playoff spot.

That'd be really handy. MLB should move the trade deadline back a bit to better accommodate him.

[cc]

He killed a trade to the ChiSox earlier that season, so it wasn't just media BS.

Another thought on Roy not wanting to go to Chicago: earlier this season, when the White Sox were really scuffling, Williams made comments about being open to rebuilding. Peavy said that he'd want to play somewhere else if the team went in that direction. He may not have good things to say about the White Sox organization, and Roy probably doesn't want to go to a team that has considered a rebuild in the past five years. I'm sure Roy wants to play with Peavy, but things might be more complex than all that.

By "complex" I assume you mean, "living north of the Mason-Dixon line" or "playing in the wussy Junior Circuit"?

[pots]

The Astros lining up Roy's starts as if he won't be with the team in August. 
http://blogs.chron.com/unofficialscorer/2010/07/possible_oswalt_farewell_tour.html

[geezerdonk]

The Astros lining up Roy's starts as if he won't be with the team in August. 
http://blogs.chron.com/unofficialscorer/2010/07/possible_oswalt_farewell_tour.html

I sure hope so.

[Alkie]

The Astros lining up Roy's starts as if he won't be with the team in August. 
http://blogs.chron.com/unofficialscorer/2010/07/possible_oswalt_farewell_tour.html

I don't get it.   Who are they hoping will come watch?   "COME SEE THE LAME DUCK ASSHOLE MAIL IT IN!"   Are they suggesting we all come and boo him?

[Matt]

I don't get it.   Who are they hoping will come watch?   "COME SEE THE LAME DUCK ASSHOLE MAIL IT IN!"   Are they suggesting we all come and boo him?

Shhhh we don't want Drayton to fire him before they get a trade worked out.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Shhhh we don't want Drayton to fire him before they get a trade worked out.

Puhhhleazzzzzzzzzzzzze.  Drayton never fires the "talent".  Just ask Pam. 

[Astroholic]

Shhhh we don't want Drayton to fire him before they get a trade worked out.

And where the hell heck is my dozer?

[Matt]

Puhhhleazzzzzzzzzzzzze.  Drayton never fires the "talent".  Just ask Pam. 

I was unaware Pam knew how to assess talent.

[moriartp]

I was unaware Pam knew how to assess talent.

A certain kind of talent, perhaps.

[Matt]

A certain kind of talent, perhaps.

Nicely done!

[Limey]

A certain kind of talent, perhaps.

Spare a talent for an old ex-leper...

[The Spleen]

And where the hell heck is my dozer?

Hey, I know Pam's been gaining weight, but... wow...

[ValpoCory]

The Astros lining up Roy's starts as if he won't be with the team in August. 
http://blogs.chron.com/unofficialscorer/2010/07/possible_oswalt_farewell_tour.html

Gimmicks like these piss me off.   Drayton is putting this show above actually winning.  Of course, this is consistent with what's been going on here for a while.

[Andyzipp]

Gimmicks like these piss me off.   Drayton is putting this show above actually winning.  Of course, this is consistent with what's been going on here for a while.

The Astros could run a fan of the day promotion and let the winner play and it would only marginally decrease their chances of winning.  They are a bad, bad team.

[OregonStrosFan]

Gimmicks like these piss me off.   Drayton is putting this show above actually winning.  Of course, this is consistent with what's been going on here for a while.

Meh. If McLane has a reasonable belief them at Oswalt will be gone by the end of the month, I don't have a problem with giving the fans an extra chance to see him.  Roy's antics of late aside, I always enjoyed watching him pitch and would probably go to his last couple of appearances with the Astros if I were in town.

[Ron Brand]

The Astros could run a fan of the day promotion and let the winner play and it would only marginally decrease their chances of winning.  They are a bad, bad team.

They look awfully good to me. Have I mentioned that I'm pricing ranchland in the greater Houston area?

--Neal Huntington

[MusicMan]

Meh. If McLane has a reasonable belief them at Oswalt will be gone by the end of the month, I don't have a problem with giving the fans an extra chance to see him.  Roy's antics of late aside, I always enjoyed watching him pitch and would probably go to his last couple of appearances with the Astros if I were in town.

Woo-hoo!  Target audience reached!!

[Andyzipp]

Woo-hoo!  Target audience reached!!

Really, all that's left for the season is trying to squeeze some more "tickets sold" out of the fanbase.  I fully expect Tony Eusebio's number to be retired in a ceremony in September.  Maybe James Mouton's as well.

[Ron Brand]

Really, all that's left for the season is trying to squeeze some more "tickets sold" out of the fanbase.  I fully expect Tony Eusebio's number to be retired in a ceremony in September.  Maybe James Mouton's as well.

Count me in if they retire "Shoes" Pittman's cleats.

[MusicMan]

Really, all that's left for the season is trying to squeeze some more "tickets sold" out of the fanbase.  I fully expect Tony Eusebio's number to be retired in a ceremony in September.  Maybe James Mouton's as well.

"Come see the future of the Astros!" is an easy sell, if they were at all concentrating on the future of the Astros.

[OregonStrosFan]

Woo-hoo!  Target audience reached!!

If Drayton'd send me a couple of round-trip plane tickets, I'd certainly attend. Then again, I'd also buy my game tickets from scalpers...

[austro]

"Come see the future of the Astros!" is an easy sell, if they were at all concentrating on the future of the Astros.

Except that if they're realistic they know they've only got one or two pieces of the future of the Astros to show.

[MusicMan]

Except that if they're realistic they know they've only got one or two pieces of the future of the Astros to show.

Which is what I'm saying.

[Andyzipp]

"Come see the future of the Astros!" is an easy sell, if they were at all concentrating on the future of the Astros.

Castro is batting sub .200.  Pam has already asked Hunter if he knows anyone from Arlington who can catch. #pillowtalk

[MusicMan]

Pam has already asked Hunter if he knows anyone from Arlington who can catch. #pillowtalk

Unfortunately, she wasn't thinking about baseball.

[Bench]

Mets have tired of Oswalt, and now demand Myers!

Somewhat.  Not really. According to BusterTweet:  An interesting possibility among the starting pitchers that the Mets are considering: Brett Myers, who is having a good season for HOU.

[MusicMan]

It's about time.  There are only 16 shopping days left.

[Reuben]

Can I just say something here? Because virtually all the shit that I read that talks about teams possibly trading for Roy makes this huge deal about how big his contract is, and that he would have to be paid for not just this year, but- the horror!- NEXT year, too, when he'll still be under contract. So I just want to get this off my chest:

Dear contending baseball team (cc: local beat writers, Buster Olney types, et al),

Do you need a fucking starting pitcher or not? Do you want a really good one, or just an innings-eater type? ...You wanted Cliff Lee, didn't you? Yeah, well I don't think the Rangers are gonna be trading him anytime soon. But, damn, you need a really good pitcher like, today, don't you? December will be a little too late. And guess what: you're not alone. That team a game and a half behind you, they want the same kind of pitcher, and those two other teams trying to go for the Wild Card too. And we're not even talking about the AL yet. You know Kenny Williams is gonna go balls-in for some upgrades.

So you know you can't just lowball the Astros for Roy Oswalt. And that darn Ed Wade is saying they might not even pay any of his contract, let alone 90% of it like the guys at the NY Daily PostNews seem to think they should. And, I assure you, Drayton McLane does not need to "dump" any salary. That means you better show them the prospects. Oh, what's that shit you're muttering? You're gonna get Ted Lilly? Sure, right: you want Ted fucking Lilly starting the rubber match of a late-September series with your big rival? Really? You must be the Yankees. You must know you're gonna win your division anyway, and have Sabathia, Pettitte, etc. throwing for you. Wait, what? You're not the Yankees? Then you probably want somebody better than Ted Lilly, don't you?

Let's try a different tack: What if Oswalt were a free agent right now? You think you could sign him for a two-year deal, for less money then he's owed right now? Did you hear about the Lackey contract? Who would you rather have on your team? Do you start to get the picture? Yes... that's right, motherfucker: Supply and Demand. Two very powerful forces, very much at work here. Now, if you offer up better prospects than anybody else can, I have a feeling Drayton might toss a few mil your way... maybe. So, how badly do you want to get to the playoffs this year?

Sincerely,
Reuben

[austro]

Can I just say something here? Because virtually all the shit that I read that talks about teams possibly trading for Roy makes this huge deal about how big his contract is, and that he would have to be paid for not just this year, but- the horror!- NEXT year, too, when he'll still be under contract. So I just want to get this off my chest:

Dear contending baseball team (cc: local beat writers, Buster Olney types, et al),

Do you need a fucking starting pitcher or not? Do you want a really good one, or just an innings-eater type? ...You wanted Cliff Lee, didn't you? Yeah, well I don't think the Rangers are gonna be trading him anytime soon. But, damn, you need a really good pitcher like, today, don't you? December will be a little too late. And guess what: you're not alone. That team a game and a half behind you, they want the same kind of pitcher, and those two other teams trying to go for the Wild Card too. And we're not even talking about the AL yet. You know Kenny Williams is gonna go balls-in for some upgrades.

So you know you can't just lowball the Astros for Roy Oswalt. And that darn Ed Wade is saying they might not even pay any of his contract, let alone 90% of it like the guys at the NY Daily PostNews seem to think they should. And, I assure you, Drayton McLane does not need to "dump" any salary. That means you better show them the prospects. Oh, what's that shit you're muttering? You're gonna get Ted Lilly? Sure, right: you want Ted fucking Lilly starting the rubber match of a late-September series with your big rival? Really? You must be the Yankees. You must know you're gonna win your division anyway, and have Sabathia, Pettitte, etc. throwing for you. Wait, what? You're not the Yankees? Then you probably want somebody better than Ted Lilly, don't you?

Let's try a different tack: What if Oswalt were a free agent right now? You think you could sign him for a two-year deal, for less money then he's owed right now? Did you hear about the Lackey contract? Who would you rather have on your team? Do you start to get the picture? Yes... that's right, motherfucker: Supply and Demand. Two very powerful forces, very much at work here. Now, if you offer up better prospects than anybody else can, I have a feeling Drayton might toss a few mil your way... maybe. So, how badly do you want to get to the playoffs this year?

Sincerely,
Reuben

Bravo.

[OregonStrosFan]

Pert near perfect there Reuben.  If I may just add a FTC for posterity...

[MikeyBoy]

Outstanding, Ruben.

[dirty steve]

Can I just say something here? Because virtually all the shit that I read that talks about teams possibly trading for Roy makes this huge deal about how big his contract is, and that he would have to be paid for not just this year, but- the horror!- NEXT year, too, when he'll still be under contract. So I just want to get this off my chest:


Let's try a different tack: What if Oswalt were a free agent right now? You think you could sign him for a two-year deal, for less money then he's owed right now? Did you hear about the Lackey contract? Who would you rather have on your team? Do you start to get the picture? Yes... that's right, motherfucker: Supply and Demand. Two very powerful forces, very much at work here. Now, if you offer up better prospects than anybody else can, I have a feeling Drayton might toss a few mil your way... maybe. So, how badly do you want to get to the playoffs this year?

Sincerely,
Reuben

i saw today that a key to the braves-blue jays trade was alex gonzalez' option for next year.  granted, it is only 2.5 mil, but i would think that having one of the best pitchers in MLB over the last 10 years pulling down market value would be attractive. 

[Mr. Happy]

Reuben:

Damn, son. That was awesome.

Mr. Happy

p.s. I'm not going to say "so fucking nominated" just to fuck with Coach!

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

I think it's time that "so fucking nominated" got its own shorthand.

SFN is the yin to Jim's WFW yang.

[JimR]

Reuben:

Damn, son. That was awesome.

Mr. Happy

p.s. I'm not going to say "so fucking nominated" just to fuck with Coach!

no, it was Alkie who gave you megashit for that. i just piled on, as is my wont from time to time.

[VirtualBob]

I think it's time that "so fucking nominated" got its own shorthand.

SFN is the yin to Jim's WFW yang.

SFN

[Alkie]

no, it was Alkie who gave you megashit for that. i just piled on, as is my wont from time to time.

I think it was totally taken out of my intended tone.   I was saying it with a smile on my face and was just joshin' Happy.   I wasn't actually saying it to be a dick which is how I think it was interpreted.   

[austro]

I wasn't actually saying it to be a dick which is how I think it was interpreted.   

I don't understand how that could have possibly happened.

[MusicMan]

I don't understand how that could have possibly happened.

The first part or the second?

[Alkie]

I don't understand how that could have possibly happened.

When have I EVER been a dick, you redneck fucktard piece of shit?

[austro]

Dear contending baseball team (cc: local beat writers, Buster Olney types, et al),

Do you need a fucking starting pitcher or not? Do you want a really good one, or just an innings-eater type? ...You wanted Cliff Lee, didn't you? Yeah, well I don't think the Rangers are gonna be trading him anytime soon. But, damn, you need a really good pitcher like, today, don't you? December will be a little too late. And guess what: you're not alone. That team a game and a half behind you, they want the same kind of pitcher, and those two other teams trying to go for the Wild Card too. And we're not even talking about the AL yet. You know Kenny Williams is gonna go balls-in for some upgrades.

So you know you can't just lowball the Astros for Roy Oswalt. And that darn Ed Wade is saying they might not even pay any of his contract, let alone 90% of it like the guys at the NY Daily PostNews seem to think they should. And, I assure you, Drayton McLane does not need to "dump" any salary. That means you better show them the prospects. Oh, what's that shit you're muttering? You're gonna get Ted Lilly? Sure, right: you want Ted fucking Lilly starting the rubber match of a late-September series with your big rival? Really? You must be the Yankees. You must know you're gonna win your division anyway, and have Sabathia, Pettitte, etc. throwing for you. Wait, what? You're not the Yankees? Then you probably want somebody better than Ted Lilly, don't you?

Let's try a different tack: What if Oswalt were a free agent right now? You think you could sign him for a two-year deal, for less money then he's owed right now? Did you hear about the Lackey contract? Who would you rather have on your team? Do you start to get the picture? Yes... that's right, motherfucker: Supply and Demand. Two very powerful forces, very much at work here. Now, if you offer up better prospects than anybody else can, I have a feeling Drayton might toss a few mil your way... maybe. So, how badly do you want to get to the playoffs this year?

Sincerely,
Reuben

Dear Yankees,

How's that A.J. Burnett experiment going? Oh, he only lasted two innings against the Rays today? And that Moseley guy you brought in to relieve him wasn't so hot? I'm so sorry to hear that. Good luck in your race against the Rays *and* the Red Sox. That will probably come down to who pitches the best.

Give me a call sometime,

Ed Wade

[austro]

Dear Yankees,

How's that A.J. Burnett experiment going? Oh, he only lasted two innings against the Rays today? And that Moseley guy you brought in to relieve him wasn't so hot? I'm so sorry to hear that. Good luck in your race against the Rays *and* the Red Sox. That will probably come down to who pitches the best.

Give me a call sometime,

Ed Wade

Dear austro,

Why don't you use your head and shut the fuck up?

Ever vigilant,

The BBGs

[cougar]

When have I EVER been a dick, you redneck fucktard piece of shit?

Noe, why is Alkie so angry?

[matadorph]

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

[Guinness]

Dear Yankees,

How's that A.J. Burnett experiment going?

I was told by a noo yawka this weekend that A.J. Burnett is the most hated man in the city.

[Alkie]

I was told by a noo yawka this weekend that A.J. Burnett is the most hated man in the city.

He raised the cost of a Metrocard and shut down our favorite Italian restaurant. 

[Mr. Happy]

I think it was totally taken out of my intended tone.   I was saying it with a smile on my face and was just joshin' Happy.   I wasn't actually saying it to be a dick which is how I think it was interpreted.   

I took absolutely no offense whatsoever. Alkie's been joshing me for 15 years. I like it.

[MusicMan]

Roesnthal: Oswalt attracting "only limited interest"

[Limey]

Roesnthal: Oswalt attracting "only limited interest"

Interesting comment about trading Myers then re-signing him.  Interest in Oswalt will quicken as the deadline approaches and other options disappear from the table.  I hope the Astros get a little more flexible on the money thing - we need prospects, dammit!

[MusicMan]

I hope the Astros get a little more flexible on the money thing - we need prospects, dammit!

Wish in one hand, shit in the other.

[BudGirl]

I don't think he'll get traded.  He's going to be an Astro his whole career.

[austro]

I don't think he'll get traded.  He's going to be an Astro his whole career.

I'd rather see that than trade him for a couple of middling prospects (or, God forbid, a Milledge-type nobody). I hope Wade holds out for genuine, high-upside prospects.

[Limey]

I'd rather see that than trade him for a couple of middling prospects (or, God forbid, a Milledge-type nobody). I hope Wade holds out for genuine, high-upside prospects.

Agree.  The trade equivalent of TOGTFO.

[Matt]

Agree.  The trade equivalent of TOGTFO.

Top Prospects or get the fuck out

[Limey]

Top Prospects or get the fuck out

Exactly.

[BudGirl]

Top Prospects or get the fuck out

shouldn't it be TPOGTFO then?

[moriartp]

I don't see the urgency in trading Roy. He may be more attractive to another team in the offseason or at next year's deadline anyway. Money is the primary issue right now, but with each day that passes he's owed less and less. There'll be another 7 million or so off his deal by the end of this season.

[Matt]

shouldn't it be TPOGTFO then?

Yep that would be it exactly.

[Matt]

I don't see the urgency in trading Roy. He may be more attractive to another team in the offseason or at next year's deadline anyway. Money is the primary issue right now, but with each day that passes he's owed less and less. There'll be another 7 million or so off his deal by the end of this season.

I think people are making a bigger deal about his money than it actually is in reality. Signing a free agent pitcher of his caliber wouldn't be any cheaper than taking on his salary.

[MusicMan]

Olney tweets:

Heard this: The Dodgers are looking for a starter AND a reliever. They presumably will need $ relief, like they got in Casey Blake deal.

Show me your Dodger trades for Myers and Lyon.

[Alkie]

Showed up to my office building today to find 6 people from various offices in the lobby agreeing loudly with a man who announced "we bettah go get Ahswald from Houston."

[MusicMan]

Showed up to my office building today to find 6 people from various offices in the lobby agreeing loudly with a man who announced "we bettah go get Ahswald from Houston."

Seriously... New York must be every bit the wet dream you originally described it to be in order to avoid killing yourself.

[Alkie]

Seriously... New York must be every bit the wet dream you originally described it to be in order to avoid killing yourself.

Luckily, it is.

[subnuclear]

I think people are making a bigger deal about his money than it actually is in reality. Signing a free agent pitcher of his caliber wouldn't be any cheaper than taking on his salary.

You wouldn't have to trade multiple prospects to sign a free agent though.

[OregonStrosFan]

You wouldn't have to trade multiple prospects to sign a free agent though.

Most likely you'd have to give up a high draft pick though and pay significantly more.

[Matt]

Most likely you'd have to give up a high draft pick though and pay significantly more.

Yep in a way you are trading away what ifs for a major league player with a track record.

[Arky Vaughan]

I don't think he'll get traded.  He's going to be an Astro his whole career.

I hope so, particularly if the choice is between hanging on to him or getting very little in return.

[MusicMan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5396916

There were indications Tuesday the Phillies were working on a major deal to acquire a starting pitcher in an attempt to save a season that has veered in the wrong direction this month.

The Phillies will need a starting pitcher for Saturday, since they sent Monday's starter Kyle Kendrick back to the minor leagues on Tuesday. Phillies GM Ruben Amaro Jr., who is with the club in St. Louis, hinted strongly to reporters that the Phillies could acquire a pitcher from outside the organization to make that start.

At the same time, they were also discussing a companion trade that would move outfielder Jayson Werth to free up money, open a spot for top prospect Domonic Brown and replenish their prospect supply.

On the pitching front, the Phillies have discussed deals involving a number of starters. They've talked about Arizona's Dan Haren, Baltimore's Jeremy Guthrie and Oakland's Ben Sheets, among others. But there were indications they've spent a lot of time in recent days exploring a trade for Astros ace Roy Oswalt.

Oswalt would have to approve any trade, and there were no signs he'd been approached about waiving his no-trade clause or that he'd been told any deal was close. He is also said to prefer to go to a team in the South or Midwest, so there were no guarantees he would approve a deal to Philadelphia.

[OregonStrosFan]

A lot of Twitter banter on Roy potentially going to the Phillies in a 3-team deal sending Werth to the 3rd team. Coming primarily from Olney and Ed Price though, so take it for what it is worth...

[MusicMan]

Olney concurs

[Jacksonian]

Which contending team needs an outfielder like Werth, can pay what's left of his $7mil contract this year and has good prospects?

[MusicMan]

Ed Price (AOL Fanhouse): Astros close to putting ball in Oswalt's court

[MusicMan]

Which contending team needs an outfielder like Werth, can pay what's left of his $7mil contract this year and has good prospects?

Giants, Braves, Red Sox?

[Jacksonian]

Giants, Braves, Red Sox?

I was thinking Rays.  Zobrist isn't lighting things up for them, and they would be on the hook for $3+mil this year only.  Werth is a FA this winter.

[MusicMan]

I was thinking Rays.  Zobrist isn't lighting things up for them, and they would be on the hook for $3+mil this year only.  Werth is a FA this winter.

Wouldn't they just call up Jennings instead?

[OregonStrosFan]

I was thinking Rays.

Olney via Twitter:

Jayson Stark and I heard this: Tampa Bay involved in discussions for Jayson Werth. Could be landing spot for his salary, to free up payroll space for a more expensive commodity -- such as Roy Oswalt. The Phillies are working very, very aggressively to move Werth.

Robothal after the initial Olney/Stark volleys (via Twitter):

Amaro: Phillies "not close" to trade, talking to "many clubs on many fronts." Diamondbacks, Astros, A's also say not close to deal.

[astrosfan76]

Wouldn't they just call up Jennings instead?

Jennings is doing alright, but not exactly lighting up AAA (.287/.364/.398).  They probably don't feel he could contribute to a title this season.  Werth would be a good fit for them.  Besides, we need Jeremy Hellickson thrown our way in the deal.

[Uncle Charlie]

Olney concurs

Targeting 1B Rizzotti as part of the return?

[moriartp]

Perhaps 1B Jonathan Singleton, who becomes trade-eligible today (one year after signing). Singleton and RHP Jarred Cosart are two high-upside guys in the lower levels of the Phillies' system. And perhaps J.A. Happ if the Astros are seeking ML-ready talent. All wild speculation on my part.

[pots]

Oswalt on Phillies:

http://twitter.com/BernardoFallas/statuses/19086024175


"RHP Roy Oswalt: Team hasn't approached me about a trade. Would consider Philly."

[astrosfan76]

Perhaps 1B Jonathan Singleton, who becomes trade-eligible today (one year after signing). Singleton and RHP Jarred Cosart are two high-upside guys in the lower levels of the Phillies' system. And perhaps J.A. Happ if the Astros are seeking ML-ready talent. All wild speculation on my part.

Stark tweeted earlier that the club had Brocail scouting Happ's start last night.  They have mentioned a desire for MLB-ready players, so Happ could fit that bill, though I have a hard time getting excited about him.

[astrosfan76]

And now he posts on the website:

Roy Oswalt is asking for the Phillies, or any team that acquires him, to guarantee his $16 million option in 2012 before he would approve a trade, according to two sources familiar with the discussions.

That goes along with Oswalt's comments elsewhere:

When asked specifically about the possibility of playing for the Phillies, Oswalt said, "It would have to work for both of us. If it don't work for both of us, no. But if it does, maybe."

As for players we might (have) receive(d):

According to one source who has spoken with both clubs, the rest of the deal likely would be built around prospects who are further from the majors. The current edition of Baseball America reports that "no team has more talent in A ball than the Phillies." And it's believed the Astros would get one or two players from that prospect pool.

Teams that have spoken with the Phillies say they have rebuffed all attempts to include their top hitting prospects, triple-A outfielder Domonic Brown or Class A first baseman Jonathan Singleton, in any deal. And an elbow injury to their top pitching prospect, Jarred Cosart, has apparently removed him from any current trade talks as well.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5398937

[S.P. Rodriguez]

If Oswalt is asking for his option year to be guaranteed, he's a bigger dick than I thought.  Is he afraid he'll be an FA at age 34?  More prima donna b.s. from a man who ASKED to be traded. 

[JimR]

If Oswalt is asking for his option year to be guaranteed, he's a bigger dick than I thought.    

impossible for me. i jumped off his bandwagon years ago.

[MusicMan]

If Oswalt is asking for his option year to be guaranteed, he's a bigger dick than I thought.  Is he afraid he'll be an FA at age 34?  More prima donna b.s. from a man who ASKED to be traded. 

Trade me, but trade me to a place wheree I can go to the World Series.

(Looks at 2008/2009 World Series highlights)

Philly?  Eh, I'll need more money.

[astrosfan76]

If Oswalt is asking for his option year to be guaranteed, he's a bigger dick than I thought.  Is he afraid he'll be an FA at age 34?  More prima donna b.s. from a man who ASKED to be traded. 

He wouldn't get $16M per as a FA after '11, so I understand that.  But, I am perturbed that he's making it as difficult as possible to accommodate his desire.  If it's about getting a ring, you're only shooting yourself in the foot here.

[JimR]

Trade me, but trade me to a place wheree I can go to the World Series.

(Looks at 2008/2009 World Series highlights)

Philly?  Eh, I'll need more money.

he went to the WS. how did he do?

[BudGirl]

great for 4 innings.

[MusicMan]

he went to the WS. how did he do?

I'll say this much... at least he didn't fake a hamstring.

[Uncle Charlie]

Maybe an MLBPA issue as well.  Giving up a no-trade without any monetary return I'm sure rubs MLBPA the wrong way. No idea if Oswalt is a firm union guy.

From where I stand, the NTC isn't worth $16m.  In the end, it probably means Drayton has to eat more money to make that figure acceptable to the Phillies.

[Russe]

Maybe an MLBPA issue as well.  Giving up a no-trade without any monetary return I'm sure rubs MLBPA the wrong way. No idea if Oswalt is a firm union guy.

From where I stand, the NTC isn't worth $16m.  In the end, it probably means Drayton has to eat more money to make that figure acceptable to the Phillies.

if that's the case, fuck him. in fact, a player's ntc should be voided if he asks to be traded.

[Bench]

Maybe an MLBPA issue as well.  Giving up a no-trade without any monetary return I'm sure rubs MLBPA the wrong way. No idea if Oswalt is a firm union guy.

I can't see how that could possibly rub the MLBPA the wrong way.  That's total nonsense.

[astrosfan76]

They've intervened when a player loses out on guaranteed money in a trade (A-Rod to Boston), but I can't think of a time when they were upset over a player simply waiving his NTC to go to a better club.

[Bench]

They've intervened when a player loses out on guaranteed money in a trade (A-Rod to Boston), but I can't think of a time when they were upset over a player simply waiving his NTC to go to a better club.

Exactly.  That's the whole point of a NTC.

[MusicMan]

Jon Heyman playing catchup, as usual

[Uncle Charlie]

They've intervened when a player loses out on guaranteed money in a trade (A-Rod to Boston), but I can't think of a time when they were upset over a player simply waiving his NTC to go to a better club.

I'm not as informed as some about players with NTC's being traded, but it sure seems that they tend either get extensions or options picked up.  Does anyone remember specific deals in which players with NTCs agreed to a trade without getting one of the above?  How many players did a concession.

If you can get it in the contract, I'd love to see the standard turn into the suggestion that if you demand a trade, the NTC is gone.

[OregonStrosFan]

I understand the general desire for folks to be 'compensated' for waiving their NTCs (and recall there generally being some extra monetary incentive for doing so), but think this a tad different than many of those circumstances.  The compensation here would be: "Hey Roy, you wanted to be traded to a contender and here is your opportunity.  If you don't like it, please understand that we are happy to continue to have you pitch for the Astros for the next 2 years. Your choice. -MGT"

[Duder]

Oswalt is apparently unaware of his demand to pick up his 2012 option.

"@brianmctaggart: Roy Oswalt when asked about reports he wants his 2012 option to be picked up: "I heard that today on TV. I don't know anyting about it."

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Oswalt is apparently unaware of his demand to pick up his 2012 option.

"@brianmctaggart: Roy Oswalt when asked about reports he wants his 2012 option to be picked up: "I heard that today on TV. I don't know anyting about it."

Right, and Astros GM Ed Wade was the first to go public.  He didn't have his DL'd BFF up in Chicago do it on his behalf.  No... nothing like that EVER happened. 

[Noe]

I'm not as informed as some about players with NTC's being traded, but it sure seems that they tend either get extensions or options picked up.  Does anyone remember specific deals in which players with NTCs agreed to a trade without getting one of the above?  How many players did a concession.

If you can get it in the contract, I'd love to see the standard turn into the suggestion that if you demand a trade, the NTC is gone.

I think Roy's best friend Jake Peavey had to have a similar concession before he granted a trade to Chicago.  Players talk to each other, especially those who hunt together.

[drew corleone]

he went to the WS. how did he do?

Exactly what I think when people post that they feel sorry for Roy because the organization won't pander to him.

[dirty steve]

dont the agents work for the players? i  dont understand how the 2012 option comes up and roy claims he doesnt know what is going on.  dont
you think -he- would have some say on what to do with the option since -he- is the one would have to pitch in philadelphia, detroit, etc? 

i just can't see how something doesn't get done, especially with the phillies since stark made them sound -really-desperate for SP.

[OregonStrosFan]

dont the agents work for the players?

Roy's agent Bob Garber? Depends on who you talk to perhaps...  Astros County with some interesting info on Garber's track record: LINK

[astrosfan76]

I'd rather see him go to the Phillies.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/top-posts/the-cardinals-are-the-front-runners-for-roy-oswalt.php

[BUWebguy]

What does the Cardinals' farm system have to offer? I thought they were fairly depleted.

[Ebby Calvin]

I'd rather see him go to the Phillies.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/top-posts/the-cardinals-are-the-front-runners-for-roy-oswalt.php

Ugh.  While any trade at this point is a good thing, sending O to the Jakes just doesn't feel right.  Do they have any world-beaters in the minors to get the deal done?  I'd prefer to fleece the entire franchise of its young talent if so.
Fuck the Jakes.

[Ron Brand]

Dirty steve, Roy is smart enough to get out of the way and let his agent do his job, which is to get the best deal he can for his client and not leave money on the table, within whatever guidelines Roy has set up. This is all part of the negotiation. Either someone will blink and a deal will get done or it won't, but it's all part of getting the best deal.

[Noe]

If this possible deal with the Cardinals gets around, seems to me the market just got very interested in what the Jakes are planning to do.  Carpenter, Wainwright, Oswalt?  Wow, even the Yankees would try to block that from happening.  Seems to me someone knows how to create a market for a pitcher who for all the world makes it damn hard to trade his butt.

[astrosfan76]

What does the Cardinals' farm system have to offer? I thought they were fairly depleted.

There's not much in the upper levels.  Shelby Miller is their top prospect, but is at low-A.  Lance Lynn is at AAA, but I don't know that he's a centerpiece in a deal.

[moriartp]

There's not much in the upper levels.  Shelby Miller is their top prospect, but is at low-A.  Lance Lynn is at AAA, but I don't know that he's a centerpiece in a deal.

Just going off what I've read about the Cards' system, I imagine a deal would have to be built around Miller. He is, by all accounts, a true stud.

[Jose Cruz III]

I understand the general desire for folks to be 'compensated' for waiving their NTCs (and recall there generally being some extra monetary incentive for doing so), but think this a tad different than many of those circumstances.  The compensation here would be: "Hey Roy, you wanted to be traded to a contender and here is your opportunity.  If you don't like it, please understand that we are happy to continue to have you pitch for the Astros for the next 2 years. Your choice. -MGT"

And they need to add that he will do this while keeping his mouth shut about his teammates.

[MusicMan]

Roy's agent is on 1560 now.

Translating the agent-speak, he is ABSOLUTELY insisting on the option being picked up.

"You have to understand, there are teams that would make a deal only on the basis that they could work out an extension for him" - in response to "if you insist that his option be picked up, doesn't that decrease his chances of being traded?"

[jbm]

I will be relieved when this prick is gone.

Trade me, but only where I want.  Oh, now let me squeeze some more cash out. It's about that championship I seek.  You know that. Right.

Please, get the fuck out of here Roy.

[Arky Vaughan]

I will be relieved when this prick is gone.

Trade me, but only where I want.  Oh, now let me squeeze some more cash out. It's about that championship I seek.  You know that. Right.

Please, get the fuck out of here Roy.

The Astros signed the contract with the no-trade clause in it. That's what a no-trade clause is intended to do: give the player all the leverage.

[MusicMan]

The Astros signed the contract with the no-trade clause in it. That's what a no-trade clause is intended to do: give the player all the leverage.

Yes, and I hate the fact that Drayton handed out no-trades like candy.

But Roy was the one to go public with the trade demand, and kill any remaining leverage the Astros had.

I say let him rot here unless we can get a deal we love.

[Arky Vaughan]

Yes, and I hate the fact that Drayton handed out no-trades like candy.

But Roy was the one to go public with the trade demand, and kill any remaining leverage the Astros had.

I say let him rot here unless we can get a deal we love.

Agreed entirely on all points. And the no-trade wasn't necessarily the wrong decision at the time for someone like Oswalt. But it is what it is now, so they have to deal with it. The leverage the Astros have is, as you point out, letting him rot if he makes a worthwhile deal impossible. He has to agree to any trade. But the Astros have no obligation at all to trade him. Maybe that will motivate him to shut up and cooperate.

[cc]

Clearly he's not so desperate to leave if he's making such onerous preconditions.  Anyone who's begging for divorce doesn't then DEMAND that the partner move out and leave everything behind.  Roy is merely flirting with the idea of divorce.

The Astros should stand pat if he won't budge AND there's no "other woman" lusting after him enough to be willing to pay off all his credit card debt. 

[Bench]

Clearly he's not so desperate to leave if he's making such onerous preconditions.  Anyone who's begging for divorce doesn't then DEMAND that the partner move out and leave everything behind.  Roy is merely flirting with the idea of divorce.

The Astros should stand pat if he won't budge AND there's no "other woman" lusting after him enough to be willing to pay off all his credit card debt. 

I think the only "divorce" in question is the one between you and reality.

[cc]

Please tell us then, oh Oracle of All Things Oswalt, what is Roy's bidding?

[Andyzipp]

Anyone who's begging for divorce doesn't then DEMAND that the partner move out and leave everything behind.  Roy is merely flirting with the idea of divorce.

I take it you're not very familiar with divorce proceedings?

[cc]

I take  it the two of you aren't all that familiar with the definition of the term "desperate."

[Jacksonian]

Seems to me that it's July 22.  A lot of rhetoric now may cease as we move on especially if the desire to get dealt is as strong as Oswalt makes it appear.  Let's see what happens as we move toward the end of next week.

[Andyzipp]

I take  it the two of you aren't all that familiar with the definition of the term "desperate."

I don't think anyone making 15-16 million dollars per year can ever be categorized as "desperate."

[cc]

Seems to me that it's July 22.  A lot of rhetoric now may cease as we move on especially if the desire to get dealt is as strong as Oswalt makes it appear.  Let's see what happens as we move toward the end of next week.

Exactly.  So if you're the Astros, don't "settle."  Wait for Roy to start sweating over the next 9 days.  But if he won't come off his demands and no one will meet them, fine.  He can assert his leverage to go only under certain conditions, and the Astros can assert their leverage to do nothing.  But it won't come to that, not if Roy refuses to consider staying.  If he's bent on leaving, he is the only one who has to ensure he leaves.  As MM stated, the Astros don't have to do anything. 

I just hope they don't feel like they do.            

[Reuben]

Exactly.  So if you're the Astros, don't "settle."  Wait for Roy to start sweating over the next 9 days.  But if he won't come off his demands and no one will meet them, fine.  He can assert his leverage to go only under certain conditions, and the Astros can assert their leverage to do nothing.  But it won't come to that, not if Roy refuses to consider staying.  If he's bent on leaving, he is the only one who has to ensure he leaves.  As MM stated, the Astros don't have to do anything. 

I just hope they don't feel like they do.            

That's what I'm thinking, and I'd assume other GMs realize it too, on some level: McLane doesn't NEED to move Roy's salary. Keeping a productive Oswalt on the staff for the next year and a half is not a bad outcome, marketing-wise. People will still come out to see him pitch. The Astros have not given any indication that they are trying to drastically reduce payroll. So it only makes sense to trade him if they can get bona-fide prospects in return.

And, I'm with Noe, the Cardinals talk is maybe just an attempt to drum up a better market for Roy O. I hope.

[JackAstro]

I don't think anyone making 15-16 million dollars per year can ever be categorized as "desperate."

Well, Andy, he might make a lot of money, but he spends a lot of money.

/ewing'd

[JackAstro]

Plus, he's got a family to feed.

/sprewell'd

[MusicMan]

Well, Andy, he might make a lot of money, but he spends a lot of money.

/ewing'd

And he might be using a helluva drug.

/rickjames'd

[Ty in Tampa]

I just hope they don't feel like they do.             

I don't think they do. Other than everyone being a year older and Roy being a year cheaper, they'll likely be in the exact same position next year.

[cc]

I don't think anyone making 15-16 million dollars per year can ever be categorized as "desperate."

No, you're right, "desperate" is actually drinking the motor oil.  (If you've seen the end of "Quantum of Solace" you'll know what I'm talking about.  Although come to think of it, that guy made a lot more than Roy.) 

[BUWebguy]

Just going off what I've read about the Cards' system, I imagine a deal would have to be built around Miller. He is, by all accounts, a true stud.

The Cards' most compelling potential trading chip for most teams would seem to be 2009 first-round Draft pick Shelby Miller, a right-hander who has been on a roll lately at low Class A Quad Cities. Farm director Jeff Luhnow was given the opportunity on Wednesday to classify Miller as untouchable, but declined to do so. He said the right-hander quite surely would not be moved for a two-month rental player, but that for a longer-term upgrade, any and all prospects could conceivably be in play.

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100721&content_id=12474476&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

[cc]

I don't think they do. Other than everyone being a year older and Roy being a year cheaper, they'll likely be in the exact same position next year.

Interesting.  I  don't see that happening, but I'm not sure how intent on winning a title *now* some of these well-heeled organizations really are, or whether they think anyone believes them when they say Ted Lilly is the guy that can put them over the top instead.  There's nothing close to an ace or a 1a pitcher out there besides Roy.  And everyone knows it.  Meanwhile the Yankees, Braves and Rangers are pulling away.  This aint over yet.  Unless, of course, Roy is content to stay with a 95-100-game loser instead of having another chance at a ring this year.  If so, well, they'll just deal with this in the offseason again.

[hostros7]

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100721&content_id=12474476&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

Lyles, Miller, and Purke/Jungmann/whoever could probably get some astros fans excited about this (next?) decade.  Not that any of those prospects are guaranteed to have any success in the bigs.

[matadorph]

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100721&content_id=12474476&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

The Astros had scouts at his games before the 2009 draft.

[Andyzipp]

There's nothing close to an ace or a 1a pitcher out there besides Roy.  And everyone knows it. 

Roy isn't either of these things any more, so that may be part of the issue.

[BudGirl]

Roy isn't either of these things any more, so that may be part of the issue.

Yes, he is.

[JimR]

Yes, he is.

no way is he either.

[Andyzipp]

Yes, he is.

Do you think there are some scouts reading this site?

[BudGirl]

Do you think there are some scouts reading this site?

doubtful, but just in case.  Yes, he is.

[MusicMan]

Do you think there are some scouts reading this site?

I wonder...

"The one thing I wonder about is how much he's been worn down by losing," one scout said. "He used to be an absolute bulldog out there. Now, it's almost like he's going through the motions some days. You just wonder how much all of this has taken its toll."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings100722

[MusicMan]

Same article, on Myers:

"All I can tell you is what they told us," said an executive of one club that checked in. "They said they'd have to be overwhelmed to move him or Wandy Rodriguez."

/pleasejustbeposturing

[cc]

Roy isn't either of these things any more, so that may be part of the issue.

I can think of at least 5 teams in contention who would consider him to be either one or the other.  He may not be what he once was, but he's still better than anything a bunch of clubs have, not only for his track record of winning but for what he's doing this season:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings100722

Oswalt is averaging nearly a whiff an inning. He has the same WHIP (1.07) as Ubaldo Jimenez. He's third in the league in quality starts. And his opponent OPS (.619) is lower than the OPS against Roy Halladay, Chris Carpenter or Tim Lincecum. So clearly, this guy still can pitch, even as he closes in on his 33rd birthday next month.

[MusicMan]

Look two posts above yours, and in the same article, for why he's not.

[Andyzipp]

I can think of at least 5 teams in contention who would consider him to be either one or the other.  He may not be what he once was, but he's still better than anything a bunch of clubs have, not only for his track record of winning but for what he's doing this season:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings100722

(Oswalt is averaging nearly a whiff an inning. He has the same WHIP (1.07) as Ubaldo Jimenez. He's third in the league in quality starts. And his opponent OPS (.619) is lower than the OPS against Roy Halladay, Chris Carpenter or Tim Lincecum. So clearly, this guy still can pitch, even as he closes in on his 33rd birthday next month.)

Nothing to do with age.  He flat out doesn't care when he's out there and has quit on his team.  Aces don't do that. Despite what your numbers are telling you, that kind of crap matters to franchises when they're about to potentially be on the hook for 39 million dollars.

[JimR]

Nothing to do with age.  He flat out doesn't care when he's out there and has quit on his team.  Aces don't do that. Despite what your numbers are telling you, that kind of crap matters to franchises when they're about to potentially be on the hook for 39 million dollars.

and scouts see it, write it down and tell each other about it.

[BUWebguy]

and scouts see it read it on SNS, write it down and tell each other about it.

FIFY

[cc]

Nothing to do with age.  He flat out doesn't care when he's out there and has quit on his team.  Aces don't do that. Despite what your numbers are telling you, that kind of crap matters to franchises when they're about to potentially be on the hook for 39 million dollars.

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply it had to do with age, it just happened to be at the end of the quotation.  You've spoken with every scout from the contenders?  I'm not convinced that just because one, two or even a few out there feel that he's lost his edge to dominate means that not one single contending team therefore would see him as their ace the minute he walked into their clubhouse.

Scouts do differ on their opinions, you know.  And some GMs and managers think they can turn bad attitudes around in any case.  I guess we'll see.

[JackAstro]

Same article, on Myers:

/pleasejustbeposturing

Why in the world would they need to be overwhelmed to move him? I can't imagine that Myers would exercise his option to stay next year, and he's arguably the best trading chip the club has. I have to go with posturing, because the alternatives are insanity or gross incompetence.

[MusicMan]

Why in the world would they need to be overwhelmed to move him? I can't imagine that Myers would exercise his option to stay next year, and he's arguably the best trading chip the club has. I have to go with posturing, because the alternatives are insanity or gross incompetence.

The only other alternative is that he's assured them he'll exercise his side of the option.

[austro]

The only other alternative is that he's assured them he'll exercise his side of the option.

I read someplace yesterday (sorry, can't remember where) that Myers likes it in Houston and might very well come back next year. In fact, there was speculation that they might trade him with the understanding that he would return as a free agent.

[Ron Brand]

I read someplace yesterday (sorry, can't remember where) that Myers likes it in Houston and might very well come back next year. In fact, there was speculation that they might trade him with the understanding that he would return as a free agent.

I saw that too, but it just reminded me of Randy Wolf.

[austro]

I saw that too, but it just reminded me of Randy Wolf.

Good point.

[MusicMan]

I saw that too, but it just reminded me of Randy Wolf.

You're sending the wolf?  Why didn't you just say so?

[JackAstro]

The only other alternative is that he's assured them he'll exercise his side of the option.

If that were the case, couldn't both sides just go ahead and exercise the option now? Or does that have to wait until the offseason for some reason?

[hostros7]

If that were the case, couldn't both sides just go ahead and exercise the option now? Or does that have to wait until the offseason for some reason?

What if he tore his rotator cuff, started sucking, slammed his wife's head into the hood of his car, etc. etc.?

[JackAstro]

What if he tore his rotator cuff, started sucking, slammed his wife's head into the hood of his car, etc. etc.?

Why offer anyone a contract for more than one season, then?

[jaklewein]

Why in the world would they need to be overwhelmed to move him? I can't imagine that Myers would exercise his option to stay next year, and he's arguably the best trading chip the club has. I have to go with posturing, because the alternatives are insanity or gross incompetence.

I'm thinking it probably has something to do with the fact that he'll probably be a Type A or B FAgent.  Witht he year Myers is having he most certainly get multi year offers from other teams.  The Astros are in essence already sitting on one (type B) or two (type A) prospects so they have to get more than that to move him.

[hostros7]

Why offer anyone a contract for more than one season, then?

Because there is a competitive advantage to signing a free agent (most of the time) by offering the player more years.  Here, the terms are already in place.  If Myers said that he would only exercise his part of the mutual option now--and would not at the end of the season--then that's something for the organization to think about.  Such an event doesn't seem to have occurred yet.

[rifraft]

And another team joins the hunt, the more the merrier.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/7120495.html

[Noe]

Tim Kurkjian opines on the Oswalt scene.

[cc]

And another team joins the hunt, the more the merrier.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/7120495.html

Yeah, a couple hours ago ESPN was teasing with "St. Louis frontrunner for Oswalt."  Now it's "Cardinals and Phillies vie for Oswalt."  Reminds me of when they were trying to convince us the Bulls were in the lead for Dwayne Wade.  Personally I think Roy's taking his talents to South Beach.

[Ron Brand]

I wonder how many empty seats Roy, Lance and Wandy's contracts could pay for.

[MusicMan]

Personally I think Roy's taking his talents to South Beach.

Given Bill Simmons' push to make this the new euphamism for masturbation, I think this sounds about right.

[MusicMan]

Stark updates:

According to one source, the Cardinals offered two young players off their major-league roster for Oswalt. Among the prospects the Astros are likely to press for: last year's No. 1 pick, 19-year-old right-hander Shelby Miller.

The Phillies, meanwhile, are thought to have offered pitcher J.A. Happ and a list of younger prospects for the Astros to choose from. But Houston is looking for higher-ceiling young players, particularly a catcher and/or corner infielders, than the names on that list.

"In the end," said an official of one AL team, "I don't believe the guy is going to insist on getting that option picked up. He wants out. And if he really wants out, that's going to change."

[cc]

Stark updates:

I don't want Happ.  He's 28 and coming off injury.  I hope they're not interested in anyone who'll be at least 30 by the time the team is ready to start becoming competitive again.  I'm not hearing much promising about St. Louis's crop down on the farm either.

Might need a third team with a deeper, richer prospect pool to get involved.  Like the Rays.      

[94CougarGrad]

You're sending the wolf?  Why didn't you just say so?

Don't do shit... unless.

[OregonStrosFan]

I'm thinking it probably has something to do with the fact that he'll probably be a Type A or B FAgent.  Witht he year Myers is having he most certainly get multi year offers from other teams.  The Astros are in essence already sitting on one (type B) or two (type A) prospects so they have to get more than that to move him.

Per Bajek's/MLBTRs reverse-engineering of the Elias Rankings (which have been generally close to the actual Elias rankings), Myers isn't close to even being a Type B free agent.  LINK  Since these rankings are based on 2 years of performance, Myers injuries in '09 are hurting his status. If he continues pithing like he has, maybe he gets to type B. At this point it is not looking likely however...

[dirty steve]

I don't want Happ.  He's 28 and coming off injury.  I hope they're not interested in anyone who'll be at least 30 by the time the team is ready to start becoming competitive again.  I'm not hearing much promising about St. Louis's crop down on the farm either.

Might need a third team with a deeper, richer prospect pool to get involved.  Like the Rays.      

but the deal with the rays is that they were (allegedly) getting werth their way so they would send players to the phillies.  i would hope happ isn't a centerpiece of a possible phillies deal, either.  the three-way deal with the rays seemed like a pretty good option. i like that there seems to be a legit market of contenders supposedly interested.

[astrosfan76]

The Phillies, meanwhile, are thought to have offered pitcher J.A. Happ and a list of younger prospects for the Astros to choose from. But Houston is looking for higher-ceiling young players, particularly a catcher and/or corner infielders, than the names on that list.

Catcher?  Why focus on that position?  I understand having depth, but if they're looking for players who are close to MLB-ready, that doesn't seem like a position of need.  If you can get Jesus Montero from the Yankees, great.  But, what other high-ceiling catchers would/could be available?  High-ceiling pitching seems like it should be a much higher priority.

[Noe]

Catcher?  Why focus on that position?  I understand having depth, but if they're looking for players who are close to MLB-ready, that doesn't seem like a position of need.  If you can get Jesus Montero from the Yankees, great.  But, what other high-ceiling catchers would/could be available?  High-ceiling pitching seems like it should be a much higher priority.

That was odd to me as well, then I remembered that most of the pundits work off the logical thought process (for them) that once Houston gave up on JR Towles, they have now a huge need at that position.  They know nothing about Jason Castro and I guess they're basically saying he's being rushed to the majors because of the need.

Some people in the organization share that sentiment actually, so it's not beyond unreasonable to think this way for many.  Plus, Castro is probably known more for his bat than his glove and that probably needs to be addressed by the young man soon.  He hasn't been anywhere near major league ready behind the dish in terms of how he catches a baseball (other skills are fine, but he's raw behind the dish to say the least).

[astrosfan76]

That was odd to me as well, then I remembered that most of the pundits work off the logical thought process (for them) that once Houston gave up on JR Towles, they have now a huge need at that position.  They know nothing about Jason Castro and I guess they're basically saying he's being rushed to the majors because of the need.

Some people in the organization share that sentiment actually, so it's not beyond unreasonable to think this way for many.  Plus, Castro is probably known more for his bat than his glove and that probably needs to be addressed by the young man soon.  He hasn't been anywhere near major league ready behind the dish in terms of how he catches a baseball (other skills are fine, but he's raw behind the dish to say the least).

If the goal is to get the young guys experience now, it seems counter-productive to give up on Castro at this point (short-term or long-term).  He probably was rushed some, but not terribly, not enough that his development is being hurt.  Even through his growing pains he hasn't look overwhelmed.  Trading for an expendable catcher to start now seems like a waste of your best chip.  If the best deal involves receiving a AA catcher as the third piece, fine.  But, unless they're getting a substantial upgrade at the position, it should be down on the list behind pitching (of any kind), CI, and MI. 

[MusicMan]

Houston is asking a high price in return for Oswalt.

According to a National League executive, the Astros have said the package must include two top prospects, a third minor-league player, and a young player who is "major-league ready." The Cardinals have depth in the outfield, enhanced by the recent play of rookies Jon Jay and Allen Craig at the major-league level. The top prospect in the Cardinals' system, Low-A pitcher Shelby Miller, is a Texas native and a prototype Texas fireballer, but the Cardinals cannot trade him until he has been under contract for a calendar year. He won't clear that threshold until August, and if he's included in any deal he would have to be a "player to be named later."

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/article_e6bcb945-7945-5e92-a9da-7d0c1eebfa6e.html

[austro]

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/article_e6bcb945-7945-5e92-a9da-7d0c1eebfa6e.html

I certainly don't believe they're going to get four players, including two top prospects and a major-league ready player, for Roy. But I like that they're starting the negotiations high. But I wouldn't have believed that Richie Sexson (plus Shane Nance and Noochie Varner) would net six players, either.

[Reuben]

What's the deal with those StL OFs, Jay and Craig? Are they seasoned 4A types who happen to be on big-time hot streaks, or are they legit prospects? I'm sure with Ludwick set to come back soon, the Cards are probably offering at least one of them. But of course the Astros don't have much need for MLB-ready OFs right now.

[mrpink]

Noochie Varner

Please tell me you didn't make this guy up.

[Jacksonian]

Seems to me there's a whole lot of smoke blowing around out there.

Teams saying the Astros are asking for the world is using the media to try to influence other teams to stay away.

Remember too folks that even if a catcher is included in the deal it doesn't mean the Astros intend to keep that catcher.  He or Castro could be viewed as a chip in another trade.

[Noe]

If the goal is to get the young guys experience now, it seems counter-productive to give up on Castro at this point (short-term or long-term).  He probably was rushed some, but not terribly, not enough that his development is being hurt.  Even through his growing pains he hasn't look overwhelmed.  Trading for an expendable catcher to start now seems like a waste of your best chip.  If the best deal involves receiving a AA catcher as the third piece, fine.  But, unless they're getting a substantial upgrade at the position, it should be down on the list behind pitching (of any kind), CI, and MI. 

To be clear, I'm not saying you have to "give up" on Castro based on a handful of major league games.  But you do have to be prudent if you see in the long term that while Castro's bat will make him a fine candidate for a lineup position (and maybe a shift to LF or 1st base) and you have the young stud catcher being groomed in the minors.  My real point was that the media saw the failed JR Towles experiment as a step backwards and thus it makes sense Houston is being proactive to not put all their eggs into the Castro bucket per se.  Remember when the Rangers had a glut of catchers and everyone thought why would they trade for Salty (can't remember how to

IMHO - Castro will be fine as a catcher (he does needs improvement from my untrained eye), perhaps in a year or so (and Houston only needs a mentor type of backup catcher in my mind) he will be a fine major league catcher.

[hostros7]

To be clear, I'm not saying you have to "give up" on Castro based on a handful of major league games.  But you do have to be prudent if you see in the long term that while Castro's bat will make him a fine candidate for a lineup position (and maybe a shift to LF or 1st base) and you have the young stud catcher being groomed in the minors.  My real point was that the media saw the failed JR Towles experiment as a step backwards and thus it makes sense Houston is being proactive to not put all their eggs into the Castro bucket per se.  Remember when the Rangers had a glut of catchers and everyone thought why would they trade for Salty (can't remember how to

IMHO - Castro will be fine as a catcher (he does needs improvement from my untrained eye), perhaps in a year or so (and Houston only needs a mentor type of backup catcher in my mind) he will be a fine major league catcher.

A move to LF or 1B seems to contradict the argument that the pick was a good one because it was an effort to get stronger up the middle defensively, while adding some offensive production at the catcher spot as a bonus.  It will all come out in the wash, but I'd think it would be a disappointment if Castro doesn't stick at catcher.  I don't mean to imply that's what you're saying--just surprised to see it presented as an option

[jbm]

Please elaborate on Castro's weakness behind the plate, that would hint at a position change. My observational skills must be lacking as he looks to still be on a path towards a solid defensive catcher.

[MusicMan]

Please elaborate on Castro's weakness behind the plate, that would hint at a position change. My observational skills must be lacking as he looks to still be on a path towards a solid defensive catcher.

To my untrained eye, he still has a tendency to turn the glove the wrong way.

[Jacksonian]

Please elaborate on Castro's weakness behind the plate, that would hint at a position change. My observational skills must be lacking as he looks to still be on a path towards a solid defensive catcher.

Catcher is the hardest position to learn.  Has there ever been a young catcher in the majors who didn't have something that needed work?

[JimR]

with limited observation, he looks pretty good to me.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

To my untrained eye, he still has a tendency to turn the glove the wrong way.

I will agree on the turned glove issue, but I thought he set a nice target, frames pitches better than any other catcher (except for maybe Cash) to play for Houston this year, and I thought he was pretty good on blocking several wild pitches.  He's no Ausmus, but you don't find a catcher like him every day.

[Andyzipp]

with limited observation, he looks pretty good to me.

He looks pretty quiet to me behind the plate.  Good target.  Has some trouble receiving, glove positioning stuff.  He also hasn't had to catch a whole lot of "ungodly breaking stuff" in the Astros' system, so I think that'll get better with time.

[Astroholic]

I will agree on the turned glove issue, but I thought he set a nice target, frames pitches better than any other catcher (except for maybe Cash) to play for Houston this year, and I thought he was pretty good on blocking several wild pitches.  He's no Ausmus, but you don't find a catcher like him every day.

Looks like he has a 'plus' arm to me as well.

[austro]

Please tell me you didn't make this guy up.

Nope, I didn't make it up; Milwaukee-Arizona trade info here. Sadly, it doesn't look like he ever played in the majors.

Wow, I just looked further: it looks like he appeared in 98 games for the Hooks in '07. How did we miss that?

[Jacksonian]

Wow, I just looked further: it looks like he appeared in 98 games for the Hooks in '07. How did we miss that?

We didn't.  You did.

http://www.spikesnstars.com/forums/index.php?topic=103096.0
http://www.spikesnstars.com/forums/index.php?topic=99071.msg100846#msg100846
http://www.spikesnstars.com/forums/index.php?topic=102459.msg132098#msg132098

[Noe]

Wow, I never meant to imply he sucks as a catcher!  He's just raw and will *get* better!  *sigh*

[BUWebguy]

Jayson Stark on Twitter:

Heard from one source that the 2 major-league players StL told Hou it would deal for Oswalt are John Jay & Brendan Ryan. Not enough for Hou!

http://twitter.com/jaysonst/status/19358647400

[MusicMan]

Holy shit.  I wouldn't do that deal for Myers.

[cc]

Mighty charitable of them.  Maybe if they threw in Jeff Suppan...and Al Hrabosky.

[JimR]

Mighty charitable of them.  Maybe if they threw in Jeff Suppan...and Al Hrabosky.

or Stan Musial, straight up.

[MusicMan]

or Stan Musial, straight up.

He's lost a little bat speed.

[astrosfan76]

Heard from one source that the 2 major-league players StL told Hou it would deal for Oswalt are John Jay & Brendan Ryan. Not enough for Hou!

That would be about the point in normal trade discussions where a click is heard on the other end of the line.  That package, and they expect us to eat a significant chunk of salary?  Good thing for them Roy's trying to keep our nuts in a vice during this process.  

[JimR]

He's lost a little bat speed.

probably would hit .290

[dirty steve]

this is crap.  they want to have the NTC renogotiated, dont want to give up shelby miller, and give us a(nother) light hitting middle infielder along with a 4th outfielder type.  how fucking generous.

plus, the cards (allegedly) are the real team roy wants to go to.  you are almost forced to find the right deal with the cards or potentially wait until the offseason to do something.

[MusicMan]

this is crap.  they want to have the NTC renogotiated, dont want to give up shelby miller, and give us a(nother) light hitting middle infielder along with a 4th outfielder type.  how fucking generous.

Brendan Ryan makes AE look like Cal Ripken.

plus, the cards (allegedly) are the real team roy wants to go to.  you are almost forced to find the right deal with the cards or potentially wait until the offseason to do something.

Bullshit.  You make no deal and let Roy's ass rot.

[Reuben]

Bullshit.  You make no deal and let Roy's ass rot.

Exactly.

[dirty steve]

Bullshit.  You make no deal and let Roy's ass rot.

that's almost where i am at. YOU request a trade and act like YOU hold all the power.  total bullshit, again.

[astrosfan76]

On the bright side, Stark now tweets that the Yankees and Dodgers are both in on Oswalt.  Now's about the time Roy should be receiving phone calls from Pettitte and Ausmus.  

[MusicMan]

On the bright side, Stark now tweets that the Yankees and Dodgers are both in on Oswalt.  Now's about the time Roy should be receiving phone calls from Pettitte and Ausmus. 

I like multiple bidders.

[cc]

Who are typically the quiet negotiators, if there are any anymore now that we have Twitter and Buster?  I'm wondering if it's not someone like Minnesota (who apparently has a bevy of prospects, unlike Philly or St. Louis) or someone else whose name hasn't even surfaced yet.  Someone who swoops in early next week and takes the lead behind the scenes.  I remember in '98 the Hun coyly remarking on the radio the day before the trade deadline that the "Astros just might surprise some people" in the end.  "Just wait and see" or something to that effect.  Meanwhile Houston wasn't seriously on the radars of any of the "pundits."

And if Roy refuses to budge on 2012, Drayton can just sit him down and reassure him that the Astros will be doing everything they can over the next two years to be champions -- still.

[MusicMan]

Who are typically the quiet negotiators, if there are any anymore now that we have Twitter and Buster?  I'm wondering if it's not someone like Minnesota (who apparently has a bevy of prospects, unlike Philly or St. Louis) or someone else whose name hasn't even surfaced yet.  Someone who swoops in early next week and takes the lead behind the scenes.  I remember in '98 the Hun coyly remarking on the radio the day before the trade deadline that the "Astros just might surprise some people" in the end.  "Just wait and see" or something to that effect.  Meanwhile Houston wasn't seriously on the radars of any of the "pundits."

My memory is that by the deadline day, Gammons was commenting to keep your eyes on the Astros.

[cc]

Of course I meant *serious* pundits.  But I don't recall much buzz up until then, do you?

[MusicMan]

Of course I meant *serious* pundits.  But I don't recall much buzz up until then, do you?

It gets fuzzy.  I do remember staying up that night, more excited for the deadline than I had ever been.

[Arky Vaughan]

My memory is that by the deadline day, Gammons was commenting to keep your eyes on the Astros.

How totally different this year's days before the trade deadline feel compared with 1998 or 2004. Ugh.

Let's hope this all resolves itself soon and we're not in this position again for a very long time.

[JimR]

It gets fuzzy.  I do remember staying up that night, more excited for the deadline than I had ever been.

i stayed up until the deadline and was totally blown away. i knew at that moment the Astros would win the WS. put Johnson with that team? unbelieveable.

[MusicMan]

i stayed up until the deadline and was totally blown away. i knew at that moment the Astros would win the WS. put Johnson with that team? unbelieveable.

In the euphoria, I was certain Drayton would find a way to re-sign him too.  Simpler times.

[cc]

i stayed up until the deadline and was totally blown away. i knew at that moment the Astros would win the WS. put Johnson with that team? unbelieveable.

I was lying on the floor/couch with all the lights out, everyone else in the family having long since retired.  I had a feeling Gerry would get it done somehow, not sure why.  When I heard the midnight sports update it was surreal.  I almost expected it but didn't quite believe it either.

Now I find myself trying to get pumped up again...this time for 2013.

[BizidyDizidy]

In the euphoria, I was certain Drayton would find a way to re-sign him too.  Simpler times.

Would've been reckless to give a 4 year deal; he only managed 4 cy-youngs and 1,400 strikeouts over that period.

[dirty steve]

i was in a club in savannah, ga and saw the trade on a ticker across the bottom of the TV.  i had figured it was foregone that he was a yankee.  nobody understood my drunken euphoria.  i really thought with the alou deal the previous winter and having unit added to the rotation that a WS appearance was a great possibility.

[cc]

Would've been reckless to give a 4 year deal; he only managed 4 cy-youngs and 1,400 strikeouts over that period.

I think the Unit was going to Arizona no matter what.  Just like Carlos 6 years later was going to NY.  Whether it was Mets or Yankees, he didn't care.  But neither was staying in Houston any more than LeBron was staying in Cleveland.

[JimR]

I think the Unit was going to Arizona no matter what.  Just like Carlos 6 years later was going to NY.  Whether it was Mets or Yankees, he didn't care.  But neither was staying in Houston any more than LeBron was staying in Cleveland.

yes. i learned later that his wife was from AZ and his going there was a certainty.

[hostros7]

I think the Unit was going to Arizona no matter what.  Just like Carlos 6 years later was going to NY.  Whether it was Mets or Yankees, he didn't care.  But neither was staying in Houston any more than LeBron was staying in Cleveland.

I went to his first start as an Astro and rarely can remember the dome so electric.  The sign they gave out that day adorned my wall until he didn't sign.  Anyone remember what it said?  I think it was something unoriginal like "Houston Welcomes the Big Unit" with white font on a blue card.  Sterling fucking Hitchcock.

[austro]

Sterling fucking Hitchcock.

Go ahead, finish us off...

[Noe]

On the bright side, Stark now tweets that the Yankees and Dodgers are both in on Oswalt.  Now's about the time Roy should be receiving phone calls from Pettitte and Ausmus.  

Yankees didn't take long to come calling after someone mentioned "Carpenter, Wainwright, Oswalt... oh my!" in a organization meeting.  At worse, they make St. Louis be a little more serious about a deal (if they're really interested) and/or force themselves to block a trade for Oswalt by making a better offer (if one exist).

Create a market 101, is it any wonder Ed Wade started as a PR guy for the Astros under Tal Smith in 1978?

[Noe]

Who are typically the quiet negotiators, if there are any anymore now that we have Twitter and Buster?  I'm wondering if it's not someone like Minnesota (who apparently has a bevy of prospects, unlike Philly or St. Louis) or someone else whose name hasn't even surfaced yet.  Someone who swoops in early next week and takes the lead behind the scenes.  I remember in '98 the Hun coyly remarking on the radio the day before the trade deadline that the "Astros just might surprise some people" in the end.  "Just wait and see" or something to that effect.  Meanwhile Houston wasn't seriously on the radars of any of the "pundits."

And if Roy refuses to budge on 2012, Drayton can just sit him down and reassure him that the Astros will be doing everything they can over the next two years to be champions -- still.

To get serious prospects, you add money to the deal.  There is speculation in the media that Drayton McLane don't play that way.  He is the proverbial "wants his cake and eat it too" owner (funny, most of them are).  But since McLane has eaten salary here in the not so distant past, the return of top of the line prospects for eating of some salary could be looked at from his vantage point as paying the salary bonus to the team that was already paid that to the bonus baby prospect.

Win-win-win.

[dirty steve]

just read some of the oswalt talk viva el birdos, and they seem to think the deal can be done not including shelby miller.  they also don't think alot of Houston management.

i also heard john heyman say on rome yesterday that oswalt hasn't proved it against the AL.  so 143-81 career doesnt translate well to the AL?

[Noe]

just read some of the oswalt talk viva el birdos, and they seem to think the deal can be done not including shelby miller.  they also don't think alot of Houston management.

They also don't think.

[dirty steve]

They also don't think.

true.  came off as a bunch of elitist assholes too. 

[JackAstro]

Fhouse twittering that Roy sez the 2012 option isn't a dealbreaker if he likes the trade.

[matadorph]

Yankees didn't take long to come calling after someone mentioned "Carpenter, Wainwright, Oswalt... oh my!" in a organization meeting.  At worse, they make St. Louis be a little more serious about a deal (if they're really interested) and/or force themselves to block a trade for Oswalt by making a better offer (if one exist).

Create a market 101, is it any wonder Ed Wade started as a PR guy for the Astros under Tal Smith in 1978?

But Noe, you are wrong. I have learned many things from the internet and the Einsteins who tweet on it. Of the things I've learned, I am absolutely confident that Ed Wade is a bumbling fucktard who wouldn't know a good trade if it was a splintered two-by-four smacking him upside the noggin.

The Astros under Wade never make good trades. See, for example, LaTroy Hawkins, Randy Wolf, Michael Bourn, Jeff Keppinger, Matt Lindstrom, and Angel Sanchez.

Only Ed Wade could fuck up a Roy Oswalt trade, and I fully expect him to do so.

[matadorph]

They also don't think.

this times infinity.

Thing is, it's not just them. It's literally EVERYONE except the resident regulars at SnS. Every forum I've visited and almost every article I come across has the same general theme. ED WADE IS A BIG FAT IDIOT DUR DUR BLIP BLAP BLAM.

Reading the endless stream of factless bullshit about Wade and McLane is making me question my sanity. Yeah, the Astros suck ass and are what their record says they are, but the reason they suck has less to do with Ed Wade than Lance Berkman, Carlos Lee, and Hunter Pence.

[dirty steve]

Only Ed Wade could fuck up a Roy Oswalt trade, and I fully expect him to do so.

cardinal fan clearly expects him too.  i hate them even more now.

they think the "Really?" shirts were in reference to Ed Wade.

[BudGirl]

Um, excuse me but those are the best fans in baseball.  They know that every player wants to be a Cardinal (except for those that know they aren't worthy) and those players are willing to not be paid (by the Cardinals) to do so. 

[Noe]

cardinal fan clearly expects him too.  i hate them even more now.

they think the "Really?" shirts were in reference to Ed Wade.

Morans!!!

[cc]

cardinal fan clearly expects him too.  i hate them even more now.

they think the "Really?" shirts were in reference to Ed Wade.

Yeah, why wouldn't he take Ryan and Jay and a couple of Low A, marginal prospects and think that was fair value?  And who here thinks Bobby Heck could tell the difference on the farm between an emerging Albert Pujols from an enlargening Luis Pujols?  So we should all just set our sights a little more squarely on reality.

[BUWebguy]

Just for kicks:

Oswalt lifetime vs. AL teams: 11-9, 3.73, 28 GS, 186 IP, 155 K, 47 BB, 1.33 WHIP. In other words, a slightly higher ERA but otherwise pretty darn close to his career averages.

[MusicMan]

Fhouse twittering that Roy sez the 2012 option isn't a dealbreaker if he likes the trade.

She needs to twitter more important things.

[dirty steve]

Just for kicks:

Oswalt lifetime vs. AL teams: 11-9, 3.73, 28 GS, 186 IP, 155 K, 47 BB, 1.33 WHIP. In other words, a slightly higher ERA but otherwise pretty darn close to his career averages.

more misguided commentary from the national media who only see HOU-NL next to Oswalt's name in box score.

[Arky Vaughan]

Just for kicks:

Oswalt lifetime vs. AL teams: 11-9, 3.73, 28 GS, 186 IP, 155 K, 47 BB, 1.33 WHIP. In other words, a slightly higher ERA but otherwise pretty darn close to his career averages.

A player would expect to have a slightly higher ERA pitching in games where the designated-hitter rule applies.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

If the Yankees are serious, I have no doubt this deal gets done.  People are over-looking one key event, when it comes to the Yankees:  Their owner died last week.  Not that they needed any additional motivation to win the World Series, but I can see their fanbase outright demanding they win to commemorate the event.

[Alkie]

If the Yankees are serious, I have no doubt this deal gets done.  People are over-looking one key event, when it comes to the Yankees:  Their owner died last week.  Not that they needed any additional motivation to win the World Series, but I can see their fanbase outright demanding they win to commemorate the event.

I've learned something.   Yankee fans ALWAYS outright demand a WS title.  They don't need another reason.  It's they birthright or sumshit.

[BlownRanger]

How totally different this year's days before the trade deadline feel compared with 1998 or 2004. Ugh.

Let's hope this all resolves itself soon and we're not in this position again for a very long time.

Who can forget the halcyon days of 1987 when Dick Wagner assured Astros fans that the team would make an aggressive move.  He then proved to be true to his word by plucking Buddy Biancalana from the Royals at the deadline.

[jaklewein]

Damn I hope Roy can pitch one hell of a game tonight. 

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Anyone else notice this?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5407016

Sheets on DL with elbow injury

[Reuben]

Damn I hope Roy can pitch one hell of a game tonight. 

Maybe he still can, if he goes home and fires up the Nintendo. He could even trade himself to the Cardinals if he wants to.

[jaklewein]

Maybe he still can, if he goes home and fires up the Nintendo. He could even trade himself to the Cardinals if he wants to.

Brutal.

[Ron Brand]

But true.

[JaneDoe]

Brutal.

Sometimes the truth hurts.

[Arky Vaughan]

Brutal.

Two words: shit sandwich.

[cc]

Interesting, evenhanded read from Boston Globe: http://mobile.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2010/07/25/oswalt_may_be_the_subject_of_a_moving_story.

Among the highlights:

- Tal expects Roy to be dealt as there is plenty of interest from teams; thinks things will pick up starting today/tomorrow.

- Roy's track record in 2nd half (record is 70-23) very attractive to clubs.

Unrelated to the article, but if Astros scouts were at the Phillies/Rockies game, whom are they scouting?     

[JaneDoe]

The Buzz from Fox Sports:

The Phillies remain one of three principal suitors for Astros right-hander Roy Oswalt — and perhaps the leading one. They are less focused on Haren, sources say.

The Astros are not enamored of the Cardinals’ young talent and are struggling to find a match with the Dodgers. They have asked the Dodgers for a major-league position player in a package for Oswalt, presumably outfielder Matt Kemp or first baseman James Loney. Such a request is a non-starter — and that is before the teams would even address the question of how much salary the Dodgers could absorb.

•: Oswalt, who has a full no-trade clause and effectively can choose his next club, reportedly lists the Cardinals as his No. 1 choice.

The Cardinals, however, remain skeptical that the Astros would trade Oswalt within the division even if they came up with a match.

Reference:

Rosenthal, K. and Morosi, J. (2010) Buzz: Latest news from around the horn. Retrieved from: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB-latest-news-from-July-070110

[Matt]

The Buzz from Fox Sports:

Reference:

Rosenthal, K. and Morosi, J. (2010) Buzz: Latest news from around the horn. Retrieved from: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB-latest-news-from-July-070110

The Jakes may want to start with something more than Brendan Ryan. Hey maybe Ed Wade should see if we can trade Tommy Manzella for Chris Carpenter.

[Ron Brand]

Whew.

Astros right-hander Roy Oswalt said Sunday morning he wouldn't veto a potential trade in exchange for getting another chance to tie the club's all-time wins record.

Also this:

Oswalt said he hasn't been approached by the Astros or his agent about any potential deals. When asked if he would be disappointed if he didn't get dealt at this point, he said: "I don't know what I'd feel. I've been pretty numb the last two weeks."

[JaneDoe]

Oswalt said he hasn't been approached by the Astros or his agent about any potential deals. When asked if he would be disappointed if he didn't get dealt at this point, he said: "I don't know what I'd feel. I've been pretty numb the last two weeks."

That his excuse for not pitching well?  He felt numb?

[Ron Brand]

He didn't say that directly, in fact he's said repeatedly that the trade hoopla hasn't affected his starts. I'd feel better knowing that he'd sucked because he'd been thinking about it too much rather than have him suck just because.

[Noe]

The Jakes may want to start with something more than Brendan Ryan. Hey maybe Ed Wade should see if we can trade Tommy Manzella for Chris Carpenter.

Actually, the Jakes are pretty smart to think first if they're being used as the focal point to create a market for Oswalt amongst other teams.  May as well throw out a low ball offer to make sure you're not being used as bait instead of a real trade partner. 

[jaklewein]

The Jakes may want to start with something more than Brendan Ryan. Hey maybe Ed Wade should see if we can trade Tommy Manzella for Chris Carpenter.

Not saying he should be the center piece of any Oswalt trade, but I like Brendan Ryan.  He's a big league defensive SS through-n-through.

[dirty steve]

hopefully this will hasten things for contenders:

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=mlb&id=3711

haren to angels.

[jaklewein]

hopefully this will hasten things for contenders:

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=mlb&id=3711

haren to angels.

That's a beautiful thing to read.  Thanks.

[dirty steve]

i have to think ed wade is justified with asking for a player from the major league roster with smoak going from Texas to Seattle and Saunders going from LAA to Arizona -plus- two minor leaguers going the other way in both trades.  i think this bodes well for the Astros.

[astrosfan76]

i have to think ed wade is justified with asking for a player from the major league roster with smoak going from Texas to Seattle and Saunders going from LAA to Arizona -plus- two minor leaguers going the other way in both trades.  i think this bodes well for the Astros.

The PTBNL is a top prospect, also.  If it were Mike Trout, that would be fantastic for us, but doubtful.  Tyler Skaggs could be a possibility, since he was signed on August 7th. 

[dirty steve]

The PTBNL is a top prospect, also.  If it were Mike Trout, that would be fantastic for us, but doubtful.  Tyler Skaggs could be a possibility, since he was signed on August 7th. 

the four letter netwrok said trout was not going to be under consideration.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Sure would be nice if the Yanks came to Houston with the offer they reportedly had out there for Haren. 

[astrosfan76]

the four letter netwrok said trout was not going to be under consideration.

Skaggs is still a nice return.  The Haren deal makes me more optimistic about Oswalt's return.  

[Ron Brand]

Sure would be nice if the Yanks came to Houston with the offer they reportedly had out there for Haren. 

Ivan Nova and Zach McAllister plus two guys? I think Wade should and could do better.

[OregonStrosFan]

hopefully this will hasten things for contenders:

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=mlb&id=3711

haren to angels.

Driving back from Seattle today listening to the Mariners postgame.  They kept talking about a 'shocking' trade made by the Angels and for a 'top NL pitcher.'  Two commercial breaks talking about how 'little' the Angels had to part with to get this 'top NL pitcher.' No mention of the NL team or pitcher. The whole time I'm thinking that Ed must have given up Roy for a bowl of mac-n-cheese.  It wasn't until after 3 commercial breaks that they said the trade was for Haren...

[dirty steve]

what a killer.  the same happened when the rockets picked up kevin martin.  all the radio guys were saying is that they gave up carl landry, without saying who was acquired.

i guess teams needing SP having to decide between oswalt, lilly and to a lesser extent, myers.  i like the astros chances to come out of this with some good pieces.  more if they decide to maybe move keppinger also.

[Ty in Tampa]

hopefully this will hasten things for contenders:

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=mlb&id=3711

haren to angels.

The knuckleheads on Sunday Night Baseball speculated the Angels may flip Haren, since a bat is what they really need.

[BlownRanger]

On SportsCenter this morning, Stark was the most recent of many to state that the Astros are asking for too much.  Fair enough; he's entitled to his opionion.  But then he went on to add that the Phillies "are aggressively looking elsewhere so they can tell the Astros to get lost".  Man, they hate Houston up there.

[MusicMan]

But then he went on to add that the Phillies "are aggressively looking elsewhere so they can tell the Astros to get lost".  Man, they hate Houston up there.

I think you're reading too much into it.  Stark has never been a hater.  Also, keep in mind Stark has historical ties to the Phillies.

[JimR]

I think you're reading too much into it.  Stark has never been a hater.  Also, keep in mind Stark has historical ties to the Phillies.

i'd rather they ask for too much than settle for too little. they don't have to trade him.

[MusicMan]

i'd rather they ask for too much than settle for too little. they don't have to trade him.

Exactly.  There are BFiB's claiming that there is no way they should give up Shelby Miller straight up for him.  If that is the though of front offices (which I highly, highly doubt), then keep him.

[HudsonHawk]

Exactly.  There are BFiB's claiming that there is no way they should give up Shelby Miller straight up for him.  If that is the though of front offices (which I highly, highly doubt), then keep him.

The BFiB are claiming they should give up only a scrub or two AND demand the Astros pay Oswalt's salary.  And can't figure out why the deal isn't done.  BFiB.

[MusicMan]

Stark nails it:

So obviously, a lot can change between now and Saturday afternoon. But remember those words: "The key is for Drayton to be able to brag about what he got." It's all about how high Drayton McLane draws The Brag Line now. And for the moment, that bar is set higher than any of these contestants can jump.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/notebook/_/id/5394903/countdown-trade-deadline

[Ron Brand]

That smells like a crock of shit to me. Fuck Jayson Stark and fuck ESPN. They don't call it The Brag Line when they negotiate their deals, do they? Or maybe they're so juvenile that they do, hunched over whatever Manly Drinks are in their pudgy, pasty hand in some faceless Marriott bar or local version of Tchotchke's. Assholes.

[MusicMan]

That smells like a crock of shit to me. Fuck Jayson Stark and fuck ESPN. They don't call it The Brag Line when theuy negotiate their deals, do they?

If you don't think public perception of the deal isn't important to Drayton, then you haven't been paying attention to anything he's ever done as owner.

[Noe]

How about this for bragging: "We cleared enough money in this deal (by taking the two scrubs for a complete wipe of Oswalt's salary off the books) in order to be aggressive this offseason in the free agent market!"  (wink, wink: Carl Crawford).  I think I would say that is Texas size braggin iffin you ask me!

[Matt]

The knuckleheads on Sunday Night Baseball speculated the Angels may flip Haren, since a bat is what they really need.

I read into the Haren trade as not just a shot at maybe catching the Rangers but helping set them up for next season when their big bat returns. Unfortunately I don't see them catching the Rangers but they do have a past of late season surges while the Rangers seem to fall off.

[Ron Brand]

If you don't think public perception of the deal isn't important to Drayton, then you haven't been paying attention to anything he's ever done as owner.

Of course it's important. But it's bullshit to set up this whole straw man of The Brag Line while he hides behind his keyboard. Fuck him and and Fuck ESPN. This is a standard goddamn negotiation where both sides try to get the best deal they can. It isn't some fucking Peen-Off just because they say it is.

[Matt]

How about this for bragging: "We cleared enough money in this deal (by taking the two scrubs for a complete wipe of Oswalt's salary off the books) in order to be aggressive this offseason in the free agent market!"  (wink, wink: Carl Crawford).  I think I would say that is Texas size braggin iffin you ask me!

There's already talk around the Angels camp about getting Carl Crawford in the off season. Torri Hunter is pushing for it.

[cc]

This is a standard goddamn negotiation where both sides try to get the best deal they can. It isn't some fucking Peen-Off just because they say it is.

Perfectly stated.  The Astros organization is simply full of boobs, so why should they think they are being prudent in their negotiations?  Remember how their idiot scouting dept made a mockery of the draft by "overreaching" for that Lyles kid?  Why doesn't  Ed Wade finally admit he has no idea what he's doing and tell the Cardinals he'd be happy to take Brendan Ryan, Jon Jay and any lower-tier throwaway prospect they might offer?

Losers.   

[Uncle Charlie]

"There's already talk around the Angels camp about getting Carl Crawford in the off season. Torri Hunter is pushing for it."

My wife and her friends have been talking about new cars for about a year.  She's pushing for a Toyota.  Fact is, she's still driving the '03 Pathfinder and still will be this time next year.

In otherwords, until Torri is writing the checks, it doesn't fucking matter.

[BUWebguy]

How about this for bragging: "We cleared enough money in this deal (by taking the two scrubs for a complete wipe of Oswalt's salary off the books) in order to be aggressive this offseason in the free agent market!"  (wink, wink: Carl Crawford).  I think I would say that is Texas size braggin iffin you ask me!

I think you're expecting too much of the average fan -- too long of a disconnect between trade (July) and FA signing (winter). That's months of people complaining about how dumb the Astros are, how cheap Drayton is, etc.

[Matt]

"There's already talk around the Angels camp about getting Carl Crawford in the off season. Torri Hunter is pushing for it."

My wife and her friends have been talking about new cars for about a year.  She's pushing for a Toyota.  Fact is, she's still driving the '03 Pathfinder and still will be this time next year.

In otherwords, until Torri is writing the checks, it doesn't fucking matter.

Except Arte Moreno talks to his main guys about this often and likes to go out and sign players similar to Carl Crawford. He has the money and will to do it.

[MusicMan]

Rosenthal: Oswalt does not want to go to Philly

[HudsonHawk]

Rosenthal: Oswalt does not want to go to Philly

I'm hearing rumours that he's now re-thinking wanting to be traded altogether.  Word is, when confronted with the reality of it, he realized how good he has it here.  Just rumours, but juneberno.

[hostros7]

Rosenthal: Oswalt does not want to go to Philly

Oswalt's strong desire to take his talents to St. Louis pisses me off.  LeBron prima donna bs.  You'd think he'd hate the motherfuckin turds after all his time in the central, particularly after '04 and '05.  I guess it has always been about Him.

[MusicMan]

I'm hearing rumours that he's now re-thinking wanting to be traded altogether.  Word is, when confronted with the reality of it, he realized how good he has it here.  Just rumours, but juneberno.

Pissing all over your legacy is cause for reflection.

[Lurch]

Pissing all over your legacy is cause for reflection.

I suggest covering it with Chuck's hat first.

[BlownRanger]

I think you're reading too much into it.  Stark has never been a hater.  Also, keep in mind Stark has historical ties to the Phillies.

Stark/Gammons/Olney/Krjkzkjrkzcian and their entire band of sycophantic wannabes have been taking shots at the Astros ever since Houston had the audacity to invalidate Roger's triumphant Yankee retirement tour. Things that would be considered "curious" by just about any other franchise are blithely labeled as somewhere between "stubborn" and "stupid" when it involves the Astros.  If Ted Lilly was considered the crown jewel out there, but Philadelphia thought the Cubs were asking too much, Stark would never casually refer to the Phillies telling the Cubs to "take a hike".

[Matt]

Rosenthal: Oswalt does not want to go to Philly

Fuck him then. He can "rot" in Houston until his contract is up.

[Matt]

Oswalt's strong desire to take his talents to St. Louis pisses me off.  LeBron prima donna bs.  You'd think he'd hate the motherfuckin turds after all his time in the central, particularly after '04 and '05.  I guess it has always been about Him.

All his talk about accepting a trade that helps the Astros sounds like bullshit now. How does trading him to a division rival help the Astros? If the Phillies give the same value as the Jakes in a trade, you gotta go with the Phillies.

[Craig]

I predict everyone will talk in circles for most of the week, and Roy will get one more chance Thursday to tie the Astros' record for wins. Then a deal will get done Friday and he can go the fuck away.

[Limey]

Pissing all over your legacy is cause for reflection.

Too late.

[Noe]

I think you're expecting too much of the average fan -- too long of a disconnect between trade (July) and FA signing (winter). That's months of people complaining about how dumb the Astros are, how cheap Drayton is, etc.

Not really worried about the fans, just counter-acting the whole notion of "braggin" rights in a horse trade.  A good horse trader might not mind trading away a gimpy one-time World Class racehorse (with an attitude) for a old nag just to have the money saved enable him/her to go buy another young stud in the process.

McLane is a good horse trader, a Texas tradition.  Dumb pundits who think horse trading is all about the one-to-one trade-offs are just not aware how horse trades really go.

[Noe]

I'm hearing rumours that he's now re-thinking wanting to be traded altogether.  Word is, when confronted with the reality of it, he realized how good he has it here.  Just rumours, but juneberno.

Limey?  Is that you?

[cc]

I predict everyone will talk in circles for most of the week, and Roy will get one more chance Thursday to tie the Astros' record for wins. Then a deal will get done Friday and he can go the fuck away.

Agreed.  I don't think Tal Smith would publicly concede that it's likely otherwise.  That sounds more like resignation  than pot-stirring.  He's just waiting for the standings, injuries and desperation to all work themselves out.  Should be fun to watch.    

[AtascAstro]

I like how easy it is to completely ignore the fact that Drayton McLane Jr is a very accomplished business man and that Tal Smith is widely considered an expert on player valuation.  Somehow, TV/Radio/Personality trumps their experience in trade negotiations and asset valuations.

[MusicMan]

Somehow, TV/Radio/Personality trumps their experience in trade negotiations and asset valuations.

I don't think Stark is talking out of his ass.  He's well connected.

[Mr. Happy]

I don't think Stark is talking out of his ass.  He's well connected.

You're exactly right. Many of those knuckleheads are not well plugged in, but Stark seems to be one who is.

[MikeyBoy]

I don't think Stark is talking out of his ass.  He's well connected.

That may be, but it doesn't mean he's not being used as a mouthpiece in a trade negotiation.

[cc]

You're exactly right. Many of those knuckleheads are not well plugged in, but Stark seems to be one who is.

Problem is, he may be *too* close to the Phillies.  He sounds like a fan in some of his tweets; he sounds like us!

[OregonStrosFan]

I don't think Stark is talking out of his ass.  He's well connected.

When I look at most of the rumors out there right now I read: "blah, blah, blah, posturing, blah, blah, blah, posturing, blah, blah" (or some variation thereof).

Everyone has an angle in this story, be it Roy trying to get to a certain team or get his option picked up; random GM speaking "on the condition of anonymity" to random national sportswriter trying to somehow move the talks in a certain direction; Wade posturing to get some other team in the mix or otherwise maximize his value, etc.

And not that I disbelieve Stark, as it is my impression that he is generally dialed in on PHI stuff, just not sure I trust the information that he is getting from his source(s), as who knows what version of 'spin' they are getting (or trying to promote) themselves...

[JackAstro]

Rosenthal: Oswalt does not want to go to Philly

So, no to the two-time defending NL champs, yes to the division rival. Got it.




Dick

[MusicMan]

So, no to the two-time defending NL champs, yes to the division rival. Got it.




Dick

Joshua is getting some strange names in his family.

[Limey]

Fuck him then. He can "rot" in Houston until his contract is up.

If something smells rotten, then you should've gotten...Vagisil !!

[Limey]

Oswalt's strong desire to take his talents to St. Louis pisses me off.  LeBron prima donna bs.  You'd think he'd hate the motherfuckin turds after all his time in the central, particularly after '04 and '05.  I guess it has always been about Him.

If you can't beat 'em...

[Arky Vaughan]

Who cares about what ESPN says?

The Astros either should trade Oswalt for guys who will help the team become a contender over the next decade, or they should hang onto Oswalt and either ride out his contract or trade him next offseason or next season. It is not the end of the world if Oswalt remains with the team.

[Mr. Happy]

Who cares about what ESPN says?

The Astros either should trade Oswalt for guys who will help the team become a contender over the next decade, or they should hang onto Oswalt and either ride out his contract or trade him next offseason or next season. It is not the end of the world if Oswalt remains with the team.

This is spot on. It's almost as if the club is using the rumors to stay in the news and somehow that moving Oswalt is a foregone conclusion. I really objected to Tal Smith's comment about moving Oswalt because I think that it undercuts the team's leverage.

[austro]

This is spot on. It's almost as if the club is using the rumors to stay in the news and somehow that moving Oswalt is a foregone conclusion. I really objected to Tal Smith's comment about moving Oswalt because I think that it undercuts the team's leverage.

I think that what has most people on edge about this is that the longer one waits for a trade, the more likely it is that there is a decline in Oswalt's value. He's clearly on the downside of his career, and if he were to suffer a Berkman-like drop-off next year, he might even become untradeable. That's the risk that Wade assumes if no deal materializes this week. While Arky's certainly right that it wouldn't be the end of the world, I think it would qualify as an opportunity lost.

[Noe]

According to Tom Verducci this morning (on the Dan Patrick show), Oswalt is all but a Phillie at this point.  It would not surprise anyone (he said) if Oswalt is pitching for the Phils this weekend.  The idea of Halladay, Hamels, Oswalt is just too much to pass up.  The key is Jayson Werth.  Ruben Amaro must trade him and get some prospects back to the Astros to make it work.  Also, Verducci is sure that if Amaro gets the prospects that please the Astros, that they (the Astros) will help kick in some cayshe to make it happen.  Verducci was asked about the comments that were attributed to Oswalt about not wanting to go to the East Coast and according to Verducci, that is all smoke and has no substance.  Oswalt will go to a contender, but was willing to make a concession on the 12 million dollar option only for the Cardinals.  Basically, the Cardinals don't believe it's true so they've been lowballing.  This is the opportunity for the Phillies, who expect to send good prospects to Houston and in return get some cayshe to help offset the option year and please Oswalt.

Details, details, details.  All the stuff about stubborn Oswalt, stupid Mclane, bumbling Wade and asleep at the wheel Smith seem for all the world to be non-issues.

[Matt]

According to Tom Verducci this morning (on the Dan Patrick show), Oswalt is all but a Phillie at this point.  It would not surprise anyone (he said) if Oswalt is pitching for the Phils this weekend.  The idea of Halladay, Hamels, Oswalt is just too much to pass up.  The key is Jayson Werth.  Ruben Amaro must trade him and get some prospects back to the Astros to make it work.  Also, Verducci is sure that if Amaro gets the prospects that please the Astros, that they (the Astros) will help kick in some cayshe to make it happen.  Verducci was asked about the comments that were attributed to Oswalt about not wanting to go to the East Coast and according to Verducci, that is all smoke and has no substance.  Oswalt will go to a contender, but was willing to make a concession on the 12 million dollar option only for the Cardinals.  Basically, the Cardinals don't believe it's true so they've been lowballing.  This is the opportunity for the Phillies, who expect to send good prospects to Houston and in return get some cayshe to help offset the option year and please Oswalt.

Details, details, details.  All the stuff about stubborn Oswalt, stupid Mclane, bumbling Wade and asleep at the wheel Smith seem for all the world to be non-issues.

Nice of Roy to offer helping out the Astros' division rivals with his contract.

[cc]

The only reason I could think of for Tal to say it was almost a foregone conclusion that Roy would be traded is that he already had the mechanics of at least one deal in place, but meanwhile was hoping to sweeten the offer or get a better one.  But he didn't have to pretend anymore that it might not happen.  I just wonder what else they're getting directly from the Phillies in addition to what Werth garners from Tampa Bay or whoever; they're not simply trading Oswalt for Werth's value.  Happ would seem to be involved if any of the other rumors hold, but the Astros were scouting the Phillies on the day before Happ pitched, so maybe another big leaguer would be part of the deal?

[matadorph]

The only reason I could think of for Tal to say it was almost a foregone conclusion that Roy would be traded is that he already had the mechanics of at least one deal in place, but meanwhile was hoping to sweeten the offer or get a better one.  But he didn't have to pretend anymore that it might not happen.  I just wonder what else they're getting directly from the Phillies in addition to what Werth garners from Tampa Bay or whoever; they're not simply trading Oswalt for Werth's value.  Happ would seem to be involved if any of the other rumors hold, but the Astros were scouting the Phillies on the day before Happ pitched, so maybe another big leaguer would be part of the deal?

I read that Matt Galante scouted Happ on Sunday against the Rockies. I would be surprised if a deal between Houston and Philadelphia didn't include Happ seeing as how it was Ed Wade who drafted him in the third round of the 2004 draft.

[Matt]

I read that Matt Galante scouted Happ on Sunday against the Rockies. I would be surprised if a deal between Houston and Philadelphia didn't include Happ seeing as how it was Ed Wade who drafted him in the third round of the 2004 draft.

Is Happ the center piece or just the major league talent portion of the trade?

[matadorph]

Is Happ the center piece or just the major league talent portion of the trade?

The center piece is Oswalt, but to answer your question I imagine it's probably the latter. Happ is decent, but the focal point will be the top prospect(s) included from the rumored third team.

[Matt]

The center piece is Oswalt, but to answer your question I imagine it's probably the latter. Happ is decent, but the focal point will be the top prospect(s) included from the rumored third team.

Good.

[JimR]

no deal is in the works as of 2 pm today. good source.

[Reuben]

no deal is in the works as of 2 pm today. good source.

As in, the Astros and Phils are not trying to work out a deal anymore at all, or just that they are not especially far along?

[JimR]

dunno that detail

definite no deal now.

[Noe]

Sounds like the Phils are assessing the realities surrounding a deal.  May have to pass, thus relegating the Astros to just about nothing for Oswalt and the idea of keeping him around for the tenure of his contract and/or trade in the offseason more a reality for everyone, including Tal Smith and Roy Oswalt.

[Noe]

As in, the Astros and Phils are not trying to work out a deal anymore at all, or just that they are not especially far along?

The Phils have gutted their farm system way too much in the recent past.  They only have Dominic Brown left as a truly legit prospect.  They can't bring themselves to trade Brown (nor should they be expected to at this point).  So they have to look elsewhere to mine other prospects from other teams to flip them for Oswalt.  That is the sticking point and may ultimately kill any deal.

May be just too much to ask of the Phils at this point.

[BUWebguy]

The Phils have gutted their farm system way too much in the recent past.  They only have Dominic Brown left as a truly legit prospect.  They can't bring themselves to trade Brown (nor should they be expected to at this point).  So they have to look elsewhere to mine other prospects from other teams to flip them for Oswalt.  That is the sticking point and may ultimately kill any deal.

May be just too much to ask of the Phils at this point.

Stark's column today said it's now unlikely the Phils will trade Werth for prospects, which then (as Noe noted) leaves them with not much to offer (certainly not without gutting their system completely). And if they were interested in emptying their system to win now, they would have kept Cliff Lee in the offseason.

[Noe]

Stark's column today said it's now unlikely the Phils will trade Werth for prospects, which then (as Noe noted) leaves them with not much to offer (certainly not without gutting their system completely). And if they were interested in emptying their system to win now, they would have kept Cliff Lee in the offseason.

That pretty much signals the white flag on this deal happening.  Looks for all the world like Oswalt will be pitching on Friday night and for every other turn he has left for the remainder of the season.

[Ron Brand]

Time for the Dodgers to swoop into a now-depressed market, or someone else to work a threeway with those Tampa Rays.

[Noe]

Time for the Dodgers to swoop into a now-depressed market, or someone else to work a threeway with those Tampa Rays.

The deal is money.  If the Astros pay cash in the Oswalt deal, then they rightfully expect good to great prospects.  The only ones who got a reprieve on the cayshe is the Cardinals.  They played it smart and said no to good to great prospects because of it.  Plus they also did not believe the Astros were serious about a deal (it's the bait saying out loud "Hey, we're the bait!").  They, IMHO, were right to think so.  All the other potential trade partners have to deal with Oswalt's demands more than the Cardinals did, which takes you back to dinero coming from the Astros.

If the Dodgers balked at giving up Loney or Kemp, then they better well produce some great prospects and/or be prepared to pay cayshe all on their own.  Word is moola isn't something they can afford at this time and since the Astros know that, it's give up Loney or Kemp or no deal.

[hostros7]

The deal is money.  If the Astros pay cash in the Oswalt deal, then they rightfully expect good to great prospects.  The only ones who got a reprieve on the cayshe is the Cardinals.  They played it smart and said no to good to great prospects because of it.  Plus they also did not believe the Astros were serious about a deal (it's the bait saying out loud "Hey, we're the bait!").  They, IMHO, were right to think so.  All the other potential trade partners have to deal with Oswalt's demands more than the Cardinals did, which takes you back to dinero coming from the Astros.

If the Dodgers balked at giving up Loney or Kemp, then they better well produce some great prospects and/or be prepared to pay cayshe all on their own.  Word is moola isn't something they can afford at this time and since the Astros know that, it's give up Loney or Kemp or no deal.

I'm hoping the Yankees swoop in at the last moment in a "win one for the Boss" scenario.  Starting to feel like the Astros and Roy are stuck with each other which, at this point, seems like an undesirable outcome for all parties.

[jaklewein]

Time for the Dodgers to swoop into a now-depressed market, or someone else to work a threeway with those Tampa Rays.

I keep thinking the Twins will come in under the radar and steal him.  They are supposedly killing it on the revenue side with the new Stadium.

Oh wait...let me guess...Roy prefers fishing bass vs. northern pike.  Nevermind.

[Reuben]

The deal is money.  If the Astros pay cash in the Oswalt deal, then they rightfully expect good to great prospects.  The only ones who got a reprieve on the cayshe is the Cardinals.  They played it smart and said no to good to great prospects because of it.  Plus they also did not believe the Astros were serious about a deal (it's the bait saying out loud "Hey, we're the bait!").  They, IMHO, were right to think so.  All the other potential trade partners have to deal with Oswalt's demands more than the Cardinals did, which takes you back to dinero coming from the Astros.

If the Dodgers balked at giving up Loney or Kemp, then they better well produce some great prospects and/or be prepared to pay cayshe all on their own.  Word is moola isn't something they can afford at this time and since the Astros know that, it's give up Loney or Kemp or no deal.

I don't quite understand why they asked for Loney or Kemp in the first place; a) no contending team wants to give up major pieces of its lineup in-season, and b) those guys are going to be expensive (and/or free agents) by the time the Astros are close to good again anyway. Not to mention Loney seems like a good but not great 1B- .290 hitter, hits about 13 HR a year. I hope its not because he's from Houston.

[OregonStrosFan]

The only ones who got a reprieve on the cayshe is the Cardinals.  They played it smart and said no to good to great prospects because of it.

Played it smart? Don't really agree that. Think it is more of a factor of being low in the good to great prospect department.

[dirty steve]

I don't quite understand why they asked for Loney or Kemp in the first place; a) no contending team wants to give up major pieces of its lineup in-season, and b) those guys are going to be expensive (and/or free agents) by the time the Astros are close to good again anyway. Not to mention Loney seems like a good but not great 1B- .290 hitter, hits about 13 HR a year. I hope its not because he's from Houston.

i think a piece like the brendan ryan types (plus younger high end talent) would be reasonable as far so requesting something off the major league roster.  as reuben said, what team wants to ship off major pieces when they are trying to improve?  

i understand wanting players already on ML rosters, but is this just to tread water with the same core you have?  i dont think this team gets drastically better until 45 is somewhere else, pence takes a drastic 180 at the plate and some of that young SP talent starts to hit Houston.

[MusicMan]

i think a piece like the brendan ryan types (plus younger high end talent) would be reasonable as far so requesting something off the major league roster.  as reuben said, what team wants to ship off major pieces when they are trying to improve? 

i understand wanting players already on ML rosters, but is this just to tread water with the same core you have?  i dont think this team gets drastically better until 45 is somewhere else, pence takes a drastic 180 at the plate and some of that young SP talent starts to hit Houston.

We already have Brendan Ryan.  His name is Tommy Manzella.

[dirty steve]

We already have Brendan Ryan.  His name is Tommy Manzella.

can't disagree.  i guess what i meant was to shoot for more realistic goals and not guys like matt kemp.  i like loney, but he doesn't seem to have a position unless a companion deal moving berkman occurs. 

[austro]

Oh wait...let me guess...Roy prefers fishing bass vs. northern pike.  Nevermind.

That's a mistake. Northern pike is good eating.

[DVauthrin]

I don't have a problem with the club holding out until they get what they feel is a good enough offer.    You can always deal Oswalt in the offseason.   Also, I'd have to figure the Dodgers have a barren minor league system if the Astros want Kemp or Loney in return for Oswalt.   

We shall see if somebody gets desperate enough to include sufficient talent by Saturday.

[Reuben]

Saw that the Twins asked about Lilly, but they are on his partial no-trade list, so who knows... seems like they're a team that could be lurking in the background on Oswalt (or Myers?).

[hostros7]

I don't have a problem with the club holding out until they get what they feel is a good enough offer.    You can always deal Oswalt in the offseason.   Also, I'd have to figure the Dodgers have a barren minor league system if the Astros want Kemp or Loney in return for Oswalt.   

We shall see if somebody gets desperate enough to include sufficient talent by Saturday.

It's a delicate balance that I trust the Astros management is in the best position to navigate.  If roy is going to be a bitch and quit on the team for the rest of the season, it's best to trade him now while at least he's having a solid year to avoid the "he's washed up" talk in the offseason.  If he's reconsidered his stance and realizes it's best for him to continue to pitch his ass off regardless of location to earn that option year, it would probably be wise to hold on if the value isn't there on the trade market. 

[Reuben]

Wow. Bored and looking for any kind of Astros-related trade talk, I stumbled into the Chronicle fan guy's blog, and lo and behold, amongst the usual plethora of awfulness in the reader comments, there was this nugget of rational, objective thought:

as for the trade deadline itself, I have read over and over about how bad Ed Wade is in trading, and how he will "panic" at the deadline and make poor moves. So I did a little research, and here is his record of trades the last week in July

2000, traded Schilling for Omar Daal, Nelson Figueroa, Travis Lee and Vincente Padilla. Obviously none of those guys were anywhere close to Schilling, but Padilla did give them 14 wins in both of the next two years and Daal won 13 himself that following season and Lee hit 20 dingers. So while you would rather have the HOF guy, this wasn't a terrible haul when he had to move salary

2002, traded Scott Rolen for Placido Polanco, Mike Timlin and Bud Smith. Rolen had a couple of really good years in St Louis and Polanco did the same in Philly, Timlin was great down the stretch for the Phils that year. Probably a good deal for both...

2008, Chad Reineke for Randy Wolf...this one speaks for itself in favor of Wade

2008, Matt Cusick for Latroy Hawkins. Hawkins was very good for us the rest of that year and the next. No idea what came of Cusick. Good Trade

Those are the only major deadline deals he has made, a few others of players of little significance either way...can't see any signs of panic there

And as for other deals he has made, I looked through every single deal he made and can't find a terrible one...some good, some bad, like most gm's...couple of really good ones..how about sending Duckworth, Buchholz and Zeke Astacio to the Astros for Billy Wagner!

Ed isn't the problem folks, its the owner who is constantly meddling with things instead of letting Ed Wade and his staff do their jobs.

Posted by: 1strosfan1 at July 27, 2010 11:49 PM

[Lurch]

Wow. Bored and looking for any kind of Astros-related trade talk, I stumbled into the Chronicle fan guy's blog, and lo and behold, amongst the usual plethora of awfulness in the reader comments, there was this nugget of rational, objective thought:

Sucks he tripped at the finish line

[Bench]

OlneyTweets:

Heard this: The Astros are working very, very hard to work out something acceptable in order to move Roy Oswalt. But there are a lot of questions about how many teams would be interested, given all the dynamics -- the cost in prospects, '12 option.

[Matt]

OlneyTweets:

Heard this: The Astros are working very, very hard to work out something acceptable in order to move Roy Oswalt. But there are a lot of questions about how many teams would be interested, given all the dynamics -- the cost in prospects, '12 option.

Wow I haven't heard that reported yet in the past few weeks.

[Reuben]

Sucks he tripped at the finish line

About Drayton? Not that different from a common sentiment here, although he doesn't mention Pam specifically, the dichotomy between the marketing segment and the "baseball" segment is implied, to me, when he says "let Ed Wade and his staff do their job".

(as opposed to the typical Chron commenter saying "Drayton is cheap" etc.).

[jaklewein]

Pretty good summary by Ken R.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Phillies-could-get-Roy-Oswalt-and-still-keep-Jayson-Werth

[Reuben]

Pretty good summary by Ken R.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Phillies-could-get-Roy-Oswalt-and-still-keep-Jayson-Werth

Very very interesting that they've basically agreed on players if the Phil want to do it. mlb.com's Zolecki also has some info:

The Phillies remain top contenders for Oswalt, although consummating a trade will be difficult before Saturday's 4 p.m. deadline. Sources said yesterday that Oswalt would waive his no-trade clause to play in Philadelphia, which echoed what Oswalt said Monday. Sources also said his $16 million club option for 2012 is not the sticking point it has been made to be, indicating Oswalt might not make the Phillies pick up the option, if it meant being traded or remaining in Houston.
...
It remains to be seen if the Phillies and Astros can agree on prospects. The Astros have scouted left-hander J.A. Happ, which indicates he could be part of the deal. Astros general manager Ed Wade personally scouted Class A Lakewood recently. (Hint, hint, they know the talent in Lakewood very well.)

[BUWebguy]

Interesting. Both those reports seem to conflict with what Coach reported yesterday, don't they?

[Noe]

Sure sounds like the Phils organization has a divided house in terms of making the deal.  What is boils down to is this:

1. Do we go and gut our minor league system yet again for the chance to go back to the World Series?  (Halladay, Hamels, Oswalt almost assures the Phils of being the frontrunner).
2. Oswalt may waive his option being picked up automatically, which will help, plus the Astros will kick in a few mil if we provide the better of our prospects... if I am a minor league development guy, I'm saying "WTF!" to all this talk, followed by "Hell no, please don't do it!"
3. The idea that Werth can pull back prospect to either replenish the Phils system or flip to the Astros is now the least likely scenario of it all, so the Phils have to really think hard that they are about to gut the system yet again.

That makes it a really hard pill to swallow, so it's all about the Phils and not the Astros nor Oswalt at this point.

[JimR]

Interesting. Both those reports seem to conflict with what Coach reported yesterday, don't they?

both of those reports are based on info obtained after the Phillies 3 pm conference call yesterday.

[Noe]

Interesting. Both those reports seem to conflict with what Coach reported yesterday, don't they?

Not really, coach was reporting that the Phils were struggling with the idea of gutting themselves yet again and the chances were good it won't happen.  As coach said, they were meeting at 3 pm to get all the organization in a call to help with the struggle they're having.  They are not trading Werth to flip prospects.  Oswalt will more than likely approve the deal and not ask for instant option guarantees.  Given that and the fact the Astros will include cayshe (not a lot, but enough to insure good prospects in return), now it's all about "What we're about to do GentlePeople, is gut our system again... any problems with that?"

It is not an easy answer as it may seem.

[Jacksonian]

Sure sounds like the Phils organization has a divided house in terms of making the deal.  What is boils down to is this:

1. Do we go and gut our minor league system yet again for the chance to go back to the World Series?  (Halladay, Hamels, Oswalt almost assures the Phils of being the frontrunner).
2. Oswalt may waive his option being picked up automatically, which will help, plus the Astros will kick in a few mil if we provide the better of our prospects... if I am a minor league development guy, I'm saying "WTF!" to all this talk, followed by "Hell no, please don't do it!"
3. The idea that Werth can pull back prospect to either replenish the Phils system or flip to the Astros is now the least likely scenario of it all, so the Phils have to really think hard that they are about to gut the system yet again.

That makes it a really hard pill to swallow, so it's all about the Phils and not the Astros nor Oswalt at this point.

They could still deal Werth this winter to get some prospects back.

Wouldn't surprise me if the Rosenthal report is right that the players were Happ and 2 Lakewood guys.  That's not exactly gutting their system further.

[JimR]

Not really, coach was reporting that the Phils were struggling with the idea of gutting themselves yet again and the chances were good it won't happen.  As coach said, they were meeting at 3 pm to get all the organization in a call to help with the struggle they're having.  They are not trading Werth to flip prospects.  Oswalt will more than likely approve the deal and not ask for instant option guarantees.  Given that and the fact the Astros will include cayshe (not a lot, but enough to insure good prospects in return), now it's all about "What we're about to do GentlePeople, is gut our system again... any problems with that?"

It is not an easy answer as it may seem.

my info at 2 pm yesterday was that there was no deal on the table and there likely would be no deal. things can change, as Noe says. i have asked for a status report.

[Noe]

They could still deal Werth this winter to get some prospects back.

Wouldn't surprise me if the Rosenthal report is right that the players were Happ and 2 Lakewood guys.  That's not exactly gutting their system further.

Not necessarily about *two* Lakewood kids either.  Just that one prospect will come from there and of course Haap is being mentioned.  No one knows after that what is being asked for by the Astros.  I think the Phils are indeed concerned about what they're about to give up for this chance to put together an awesome front three in the rotation.  It can't be an easy decision for them to struggle like this otherwise.  If it is easy, then the Phils should pull the trigger now, not jeopardize the deal at all.

[cc]

i have asked for a status report.

Thanks, I'll need that on my desk by 5.

[JimR]

Thanks, I'll need that on my desk by 5.

yes, sir.

[jaklewein]

This place rocks!

[jaklewein]

Oswalt wants ample time to decide...If it was me, I'd of already discussed each city with my wife and made decisions. 

http://brianmctaggart.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/07/oswalt-eager-to-know-his-future.html

[Ron Brand]

Gosh, I just hope somebody can get their shit above The Brag Line before I get to the Marriott bar tonight.

[JimR]

Oswalt wants ample time to decide...If it was me, I'd of already discussed each city with my wife and made decisions. 

http://brianmctaggart.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/07/oswalt-eager-to-know-his-future.html

fuck what he wants.

[HudsonHawk]

fuck what he wants.

No shit.  If I were Wade it'd go something like this:

"Roy, here's the deal for you...you want it?   You've got 10 minutes to say yes or forever shut the fuck up".

[Ron Brand]

Of course, they might just want his sad ass out of town as soon as possible.

[jaklewein]

fuck what he wants.

I know, this whole thing as really soured my opinion of Roy.  To bad. He's actually going from, "Hey Roy, here's the keys to your new bull dozer." to, "Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out!"  It's actually kind of sad.

[Ron Brand]

Oswalt didn't give any specifics, but said he doesn't want to be approached with a trade proposal only an hour before the 3 p.m. CT Deadline.

"Roy, we'd like to trade you to one of those contenders you told us you'd go to. Do you think you could tell us if you'd ok trading with New York, Los Angeles, Detroit, St. Louis, Atlanta, Philadelphia or Chicago?"

"Huh? You're springing this on me now? I need time to think about all this."

"Did...didn't you tell us already you'd be ok going to a contender?"

"I like St. Louis. Chicago would be ok. Atlanta would be good. I'm not saying it's ok to trade me to those places though."

"Well, which ones would you be ok with?"

"I don't know, I need time to think about it. You can't just spring this stuff on me at the last minute. I've got a start Friday night that I'm trying to prepare for."

"Goddammit you whiny fuck, tell us if we can trade with these teams!"

[OregonStrosFan]

Ed Wade: Roy can kiss my ass!  LINK

"We'll use all the time allotted to us [by major league baseball]," Wade said. "If there's the right decision to be made sooner rather than later, we'll make it, otherwise, we'll use all the time available to try to make the right decisions."

[Ron Brand]

Roy is still an employee. Good to see Wade standing up for the team.

[dirty steve]

sounds like wade is getting uppity about the deshields and oswalt negotiations.  thankfully it looks like we might be getting close to a deal with the phillies.

[cc]

Victorino just went on the DL.  Domonic Brown has been called up.  It seems safe to assume Werth will not be traded.  Hey, maybe the Phils will think that bolstering their staff is the only way to stay in the hunt now.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5417230

[austro]

Victorino just went on the DL.  Domonic Brown has been called up.  It seems safe to assume Werth will not be traded.  Hey, maybe the Phils will think that bolstering their staff is the only way to stay in the hunt now.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5417230

That team has had some really lousy luck with injuries this year.

[matadorph]

Uncle D speaks: "I'd say it's about 60 percent that something could be done and 40 percent that Roy will be here next year."

[cc]

Uncle D speaks: "I'd say it's about 60 percent that something could be done and 40 percent that Roy will be here next year."

No, no, we're waiting for Jim's report from someone actually in the know.

[Craig]

Uncle D speaks: "I'd say it's about 60 percent that something could be done and 40 percent that Roy will be here next year."

Well if Roy stays in Houston I hope they give him and his wife ample time to discuss their future. He'll certainly need more than an hour's notice to unpack all the attitude and self-importance.

[MusicMan]

He'll certainly need more than an hour's notice to unpack all the attitude and self-importance.

The offseason is only five months.

[JimR]

No, no, we're waiting for Jim's report from someone actually in the know.

that little bit of sarcasm removed the TZ from the distribution list. should have known better anyway.

[MusicMan]

Olney: philly/Oswalt deal would involve 3 or 4 teams.

[Russe]

Rangers make offer for Roy

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/mlb/100728-cards-back-away-from-oswalt-trade-talks

[Matt]

Rangers make offer for Roy

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/mlb/100728-cards-back-away-from-oswalt-trade-talks

THERE'S NOT ENOUGH TIME! Quit hassling Roy with all these decisions!

[Cubkiller]

I hope he doesn't get the win on Friday and gets traded Saturday.  Going down as almost the winningest pitcher in Astros history seems like a fitting way for this to play out.

[Ron Brand]

Olney: philly/Oswalt deal would involve 3 or 4 teams.

Now Olney is saying that the third team pulled out and it's down to the Phillies dealing straight up with the Astros.

[MusicMan]

THERE'S NOT ENOUGH TIME!

Roy's agent is Jack Bauer?

[Duder]

Houston - Major League baseball sources told FOX 26 Sports the Houston Astros have a deal in place to trade pitcher Roy Oswalt to the Philadelphia Phillies if Oswalt agrees to waive his no-trade clause. Sources told FOX 26 the Astros have approached Oswalt. He is aware of the deal that is on the table and the club is waiting for his response. MLB sources told FOX 26 the Astros and Phillies have agreed on the amount of money Houston will take back in the deal and the two teams have agreed on the players Philadelphia will be sending.

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/mlb/100728-astros-await-oswalt%27s-ok-on-trade-to-phillies

[Arky Vaughan]

Reading Rosenthal's article concerns me. Perhaps the worst-case scenario here is that Drayton and Pam decide that they can only deal Oswalt if the trade includes some major-leaguers, so that next off-season they can try to go about selling tickets by promoting those guys as the new face of the team.

The goal here shouldn't be to get some guys in their late 20s approaching free agency with the thought that we can resume WIN-NOW status in 2011. The goal here should be to try to identify younger talent that projects to be in the starting line-up in 2012 at the earliest and maybe not until 2013.

Surely Tal and Ed grasp this, but if Drayton and Pam are still driving this Traveling Horseshit Show, then expect to swap Oswalt for some magic beans plus a couple of guys who will be overpriced, in decline or gone before this team is contending again. I would just as soon keep Oswalt until something better comes along.

[Arky Vaughan]

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/mlb/100728-astros-await-oswalt%27s-ok-on-trade-to-phillies

Interesting. The Chronicle posted this about 30 minutes earlier, but it was probably written several hours before.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/7128679.html

[DVauthrin]

Reading Rosenthal's article concerns me. Perhaps the worst-case scenario here is that Drayton and Pam decide that they can only deal Oswalt if the trade includes some major-leaguers, so that next off-season they can try to go about selling tickets by promoting those guys as the new face of the team.

The goal here shouldn't be to get some guys in their late 20s approaching free agency with the thought that we can resume WIN-NOW status in 2011. The goal here should be to try to identify younger talent that projects to be in the starting line-up in 2012 at the earliest and maybe not until 2013.

Surely Tal and Ed grasp this, but if Drayton and Pam are still driving this Traveling Horseshit Show, then expect to swap Oswalt for some magic beans plus a couple of guys who will be overpriced, in decline or gone before this team is contending again. I would just as soon keep Oswalt until something better comes along.

I'm just guessing, but J.A. Happ should be the only player coming to the Astros that falls under the Major League ready status.   He would be under club control in both 2012 and 2013 as well.

[OregonStrosFan]

Interesting. The Chronicle posted this about 30 minutes earlier, but it was probably written several hours before.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/7128679.html

Actually came across the RSS about 8 hrs ago. Not sure why it has 11 PM 'time stamp'.

[OregonStrosFan]

Footer won't be able to confirm Berman story until tomorrow, but had this to say (via Twitter):

for what it's worth Berman is never wrong when he goes that far w/ his reporting. He is 100 % or he doesn't go with it.

[OregonStrosFan]

McTaggart passes along the Berman news, along with a 'no comment' from Wade. LINK

When contacted late Wednesday, Astros general manager Ed Wade declined comment on trade discussions, and Oswalt could not be reached for comment.

[Matt]

McTaggart passes along the Berman news, along with a 'no comment' from Wade. LINK

When contacted late Wednesday, Astros general manager Ed Wade declined comment on trade discussions, and Oswalt could not be reached for comment.

Sounds like that could be it...

[Matt]

How bad does Roy want to be a champion today?

[Fynn]

Sounds like that could be it...

One can only hope.....now Roy, how bad is playing for Houston now?

[OregonStrosFan]

Am guessing Wade will include a +1 in the deal (can't resist), and it will be Keppenger.

[Fynn]

Am guessing Wade will include a +1 in the deal (can't resist), and it will be Keppenger.

Since Puma's time in Houston will soon be up, would not be surprised to see the package include Singleton.  Very impressive numbers for an 18 year old but being compared to Manny Ramirez at that age is questionable at best.  

http://http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/players/playerpage/1754162/jonathansingleton

[Ron Brand]

Am guessing Wade will include a +1 in the deal (can't resist), and it will be Keppenger.

I picked a fine morning to give up coffee. Although there is this:

MLB sources told FOX 26 the Astros and Phillies have agreed on the amount of money Houston will take back in the deal and the two teams have agreed on the players Philadelphia will be sending.

[Gleek]

Fucking smart phones, how the fuck do teenagers do this shit?
Anyway, just heard Timmy Kurkjalphabet say on mike and mike that the two teams have agreed on players, just not $.
My question, did he not see the Berman report or does he just not believe it?
I only ask because Footer vouched for him, and if its good enough for Allyson, its good enough for me.

[Gleek]

Nm, Jayson Stark just confirmed the Berman report.  Bye bye, Roy take you're Fucking panties with you!

[Reuben]

that little bit of sarcasm removed the TZ from the distribution list. should have known better anyway.

I could be wrong, but I read that as saying that Drayton was the one who didn't really know what was going on.

[Ron Brand]

Saw this elsewhere, no clue how true it is:

Phillies Receive:SP Roy Oswalt (Phils agree to renegotiate 2012 buyout from $2M to $5M)
2B/Utility Jeff Keppinger
Cash Consideration of $8M (roughly half of Oswalt’s remaining 2010 salary plus buyout)

Astros Receive:

1B Jon Singleton
P JP Happ
P Scott Mathieson
OF Anthony Gose

[moriartp]

I could be wrong, but I read that as saying that Drayton was the one who didn't really know what was going on.

As did I.

[Alkie]

Astros Receive:

1B Jon Singleton
P JP Happ
P Scott Mathieson
OF Anthony Gose

What does this mean for me?

[cc]

I could be wrong, but I read that as saying that Drayton was the one who didn't really know what was going on.

I was actually commenting on the mediots who think Drayton McLane is a doofus.  It was all about slamming the pundits who like to criticize the owner (especially including certain sports personalities in this city) as being out of his league.

Anyway, didn't mean to direct it at either Drayton or Jim.  Apologies if it was taken that way.

[cc]

What does this mean for me?

Look forward to the biggest highlight of the next two seasons being the June draft day.

[Ron Brand]

Alkie, it means that you cursed Chris Sampson into oblivion. Next time you want to wish someone into the cornfield, make it A-Rod.

[Jose Cruz III]

Nm, Jayson Stark just confirmed the Berman report.  Bye bye, Roy take you're Fucking panties with you!

Most of you are happy to see Roy go, but I hate to see it. If these prospects are good it is good for the Astros in their current state. I realize that, but Roy did some good things for the Astros, all whining and sandy vaginaing aside.

[MikeyBoy]

Saw this elsewhere, no clue how true it is:

Phillies Receive:SP Roy Oswalt (Phils agree to renegotiate 2012 buyout from $2M to $5M)
2B/Utility Jeff Keppinger
Cash Consideration of $8M (roughly half of Oswalt’s remaining 2010 salary plus buyout)

Astros Receive:

1B Jon Singleton (#3)
P JP Happ
P Scott Mathieson (#14)
OF Anthony Gose (#4)

No clue how credible this site is, if at all, but it ranks the above minor league players as shown. (LINK)

[Señor Stan]

Saw this elsewhere, no clue how true it is:

Phillies Receive:SP Roy Oswalt (Phils agree to renegotiate 2012 buyout from $2M to $5M)
2B/Utility Jeff Keppinger
Cash Consideration of $8M (roughly half of Oswalt’s remaining 2010 salary plus buyout)

Astros Receive:

1B Jon Singleton
P JP Happ
P Scott Mathieson
OF Anthony Gose

From a Philly Phansite   linkage...http://www.thegoodphight.com/2010/5/24/1484067/phillies-prospect-roundup

Jonathan Singleton, 1B-L, Lakewood: Taken one round behind Colvin in last year's draft, Singleton is doing everything in his power to surpass him (and plenty of others) in prospect status. An 8-for-20 week brought the 18-year old's triple slash line up to .378/.478/.703 (in 46 PA), with fantastic plate discipline -- 17.4% BB, 24.3% K -- to boot. He's going to cool off at some point, but the strike zone control is for real, and the power (3 HR, .325 ISO) is coming along earlier than might be expected, making Singleton a prospect with serious helium right now.

Anthony Gose, OF-L, Clearwater: Gose keeps chugging along, plate discipline be damned.  He had a hit in every game this week save for yesterday, with the 10-for-30 week boosting his May averages to a solid .283/.347/.424.  He's still struggling to control the strike zone -- with a 5.5% BB and 26.2% K thus far on the season -- but at least his May (8.0% BB, 26.0% K) has been a touch better than his April (3.1% BB, 26.3% K) in that regard.  Another area that could use some substantial improvement is his base stealing: 19 swipes in 31 attempts (a 61.3% success rate) is disappointing for a guy with Gose's speed.

Scott Mathieson, RHP, Lehigh Valley: Mathieson is officially at the "biding his time" stage.  After surrendering just 1 hit in 2 innings this week while inducing 3 whiffs, he's sporting a 2.47 FIP and 23-to-6 strikeout-to-walk ratio in 20.2 innings. I can't imagine he wouldn't be a help to the big league pen at this point, but the Phillies are content to wait for an opening; if I were Bill Conlin (aka king of the world), I'd explore a deal with the Angels to send David Herndon down to hone his slider, and haul Mathieson up so the oft-injured righthander isn't wasting any more bullets in the minors.

[Cajun1300]

Astros to receive JA Happ - LP; Jonathan Singleton - 1B & Vance Worley - RP

[Jacksonian]

From a Philly Phansite   linkage...http://www.thegoodphight.com/2010/5/24/1484067/phillies-prospect-roundup

Gose = Jay Austin
Singleton = what they want Telvin Nash to be

[HudsonHawk]

Wait just a minute...Roy O...Roy Oswalt...*our* Roy Oswalt...in a deal with the Phillies?

[Ron Brand]

Wait just a minute...Roy O...Roy Oswalt...*our* Roy Oswalt...in a deal with the Phillies?

Don't worry, he's coming back. He wants to retire as an Astro.

ETA: And wear an Astro cap in Cooperstown.

Don't players get free tickets to the HOF?

[moriartp]

Wait just a minute...Roy O...Roy Oswalt...*our* Roy Oswalt...in a deal with the Phillies?

It cannot be. YOU LIE!!!

[MikeyBoy]

Astros to receive JA Happ - LP; Jonathan Singleton - 1B & Vance Worley - RP

Left. Field.

[Uncle Charlie]

Left Field? Doesn't Cabrera play there?

[astrosfan76]

Justice has a different package coming in the deal:

Ed Wade appears to have done a decent job of getting prospects and a 27-year-old pitcher, J.A. Happ, for Roy Oswalt. These don't appear to be major league-ready prospects—1b Jonathan Singleton, RHP Vance Worley—but the Astros aren't going to contend for a year or two anyway.

Heyman tweeted that it's Happ, Worley, and a couple of prospects.  That doesn't necessarily mean Singleton isn't one of the two, but he's not going to be a throw-in. 

Brief scouting report on Worley:

Worley, a 22-year-old righty, spent most of 2010 at Double A, posting a 3.20 ERA, 6.6 K/9, and 2.9 BB/9.  Baseball America ranked him 18th among Phillies prospects heading into the season, predicting a future as a back-end starter or middle reliever.

[Insert Ed Wade middle-reliever joke.]

[Lurch]

Left Field? Doesn't Cabrera play there?

Indeed.  Also bats at the top of the order.  The VERY top.  Highlighted.  With a push pin.

[Ron Brand]

Indeed.  Also bats at the top of the order.  The VERY top.  Highlighted.  With a push pin.

Yeah, but now it's locked.

[Lurch]

Yeah, but now it's locked.

Andy must be in another meeting and doesnt want anyone taking his guess for who the Astros will get in return.

[Alkie]

Done deal, or that's a guess?

And what do these players mean for me?

[MusicMan]

And what do these players mean for me?

It will be about 10 years before the Yankees can sign any of them as free agents.

[Ron Brand]

At this point there are several guesses out there, some involving Singleton and Keppinger, some with different pitchers on the back end of the deal, etc. Haven't seen a real consensus on what the offer is beyond Oswalt and Happ, the rest is mixed up.

[Alkie]

It will be about 10 years before the Yankees can sign any of them as free agents.

I'm not sure where this idea started that I somehow harbor some sort of feelings (different than before) for the Yankees.   If anything, living here makes me hate them even more.

[MusicMan]

If anything, living here makes me hate them even more.

Which makes it so easy to give you shit.

[MusicMan]

At this point there are several guesses out there, some involving Singleton and Keppinger, some with different pitchers on the back end of the deal, etc. Haven't seen a real consensus on what the offer is beyond Oswalt and Happ, the rest is mixed up.

Don't forget Brendan Ryan.

[hostros7]

I'm not sure where this idea started that I somehow harbor some sort of feelings (different than before) for the Yankees.   If anything, living here makes me hate them even more.

I felt the same way when I lived there.  Really, how can they never shut the fuck up and quit with the strange combination of arrogance/bitching why they can't be better?  IS ONE BILLION CHAMPIONSHIPS not enough to pacify the fans for one fucking season where they don't sign every top free agent and then give the Pirates a cockslap to the face at the trade deadline and ask them to like it?

[moriartp]

Don't forget Brendan Ryan.

Don't forget Lastings Milledge.

[HudsonHawk]

I felt the same way when I lived there.  Really, how can they never shut the fuck up and quit with the strange combination of arrogance/bitching why they can't be better?  IS ONE BILLION CHAMPIONSHIPS not enough to pacify the fans for one fucking season where they don't sign every top free agent and then give the Pirates a cockslap to the face at the trade deadline and ask them to like it?

My favorite is when Yankee fans bitch and whine about how they get no respect from the national media.

[Ron Brand]

Don't forget Lastings Milledge.

Ok, sure. We'll throw in Kenny Lofton.

[Alkie]

Which makes it so easy to give you shit.

If it makes you feel better, man, have at it.

It's not like I read it and get all hot and bothered and scream WHY YOU LITTLE...........

And in any case, what's the story on Worley?  I read about the other two on the other thread.

[Ron Brand]

And in any case, what's the story on Worley?  I read about the other two on the other thread.

Worley

[MusicMan]

It's not like I read it and get all hot and bothered and scream WHY YOU LITTLE...........

This is exactly what I picture.

And in any case, what's the story on Worley?  I read about the other two on the other thread.

Heyman says he projects as end-of-rotation starter or middle relief, meaning he's a likely ace.

[Alkie]

Worley

RIP My Boner

[Alkie]

Is Ed Wade physically and emotionally incapable of dealing with a team other than the Phillies?

[chuck]

RIP My Boner

That's OK, I'm sure HH has been harboring some bizarre fetish for her for years.

[MusicMan]

Is Ed Wade physically and emotionally incapable of dealing with a team other than the Phillies?

He got Jeff Keppinger, smiter of bitches, from the Reds.

But yes, this is a repeat of the Randy Smith-era Tigers/Padres dealings.

[Ron Brand]

Is Ed Wade physically and emotionally incapable of dealing with a team other than the Phillies?

Looking at some of the Phillie boards you could also get the impression that he knows how to Jedi Mind Trick Amaro, but only Amaro.

[BudGirl]

Is Ed Wade physically and emotionally incapable of dealing with a team other than the Phillies?

If only the D-backs were in contention, then he could have dealt with them.

[MusicMan]

Looking at some of the Phillie boards

is an even worse idea than looking at BFiB boards.

[Alkie]

That's OK, I'm sure HH has been harboring some bizarre fetish for her for years.

Is she a featured person on a TV show with her name in the title?   Does she have large nostrils or oddly set eyes or possibly a shrill voice?

My god, man, you're right.

[Alkie]

is an even worse idea than looking at BFiB boards.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Ron Brand]

is an even worse idea than looking at BFiB boards.

Yeah, it's about half a tick up from the Chronicle commenters.

[Ron Brand]

That's OK, I'm sure HH has been harboring some bizarre fetish for her for years.

Jo Ann Worley, cream cheese, palm fronds, Mindy Sterling reading aloud from The Vault of Fear, and a sweat lodge.

[Ron Brand]

Of course, there's more.

[Alkie]

Looking at some of the Phillie boards you could also get the impression that he knows how to Jedi Mind Trick Amaro, but only Amaro.

I'm not sure that's terribly far from the truth.

[JaneDoe]

OK, maybe this is a dumb question, but why didn't the Phillies just keep Cliff Lee for money and not lose prospects?

[Ron Brand]

OK, maybe this is a dumb question, but why didn't the Phillies just keep Cliff Lee for money and not lose prospects?

And they call Ed Wade dumb.

All of Phillie Phandom and most of the rest of MLB fans are asking the same question.

[Alkie]

OK, maybe this is a dumb question, but why didn't the Phillies just keep Cliff Lee for money and not lose prospects?

Whew.  It wasn't just me.

[JaneDoe]

And they call Ed Wade dumb.

All of Phillie Phandom and most of the rest of MLB fans are asking the same question.

Oh, sorry.  Don't read other boards to see what they are saying.  It was just me wondering.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Hey, remember the time the Astros almost hired Amaro Jr to be OUR GM?  Good times.

[Ron Brand]

It's a pretty amazing example of how to gut a franchise of prospects.

[Ron Brand]

Hey, remember the time the Astros almost hired Amaro Jr to be OUR GM?  Good times.

Ugh. Forgot about that one.

[pots]

Philly Radio mentioned the first base prospect might be Matthew R. Rizzotti

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=1B&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=447832

[Alkie]

Throw him back.

Name doesn't start with a B.

[Reuben]

Philly Radio mentioned the first base prospect might be Matthew R. Rizzotti

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=1B&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=447832

Sounds considerably less appealing than Singleton, despite his lofty numbers this year. Then again, what the hell do I know about either of 'em.

[Alkie]

Sounds considerably less appealing than Singleton, despite his lofty numbers this year. Then again, what the hell do I know about either of 'em.

I'm saving this one in my file.

In 10 years when Rizzotti is a perennial All Star and Singleton is selling him shoes/insurance, you can expect to see this post again.

[JimR]

I can tell you what the Phillies said in ST re Lee: we could not afford both Lee and Halladay, and we preferred Hallady. They already had approached Lee re an extension.

[Alkie]

I will say, if the Phils make the playoffs, I'm not sure anyone wants to face their Double Barrel Roy-Gun.

[Ron Brand]

I will say, if the Phils make the playoffs, I'm not sure anyone wants to face their Double Barrel Roy-Gun.

Wait until they get a burst from the Whine Roy.

[austro]

I will say, if the Phils make the playoffs, I'm not sure anyone wants to face their Double Barrel Roy-Gun.

I'm sure there will be no Oswalt Innings (tm) in the pitcher's paradise that is Citizens Bank Park.

[Lurch]

I will say, if the Phils make the playoffs, I'm not sure anyone wants to face their Double Barrel Roy-Gun.

Well, the Sox

[Reuben]

I can tell you what the Phillies said in ST re Lee: we could not afford both Lee and Halladay, and we preferred Hallady. They already had approached Lee re an extension.

Halladay certainly has the longer track record, and he's more of a horse than Lee. Then again, Lee had proven he could pitch in Philly's park, and could excel in the playoffs.

[Lurch]

Any word on how long Roy has to decide?  If you're Roy, do you want to take a stab at the Astros win record tomorrow, then announce?  If you're the Astros, do you want risk him getting injured and blowing the whole deal?  If you're the Phillies, do you want him to decide before he pitches another questionable game for the Astros that might make the natives even more restless?

[pots]

The rumor is 1pm EST.  though philly radio just said there is no deadline

[moriartp]

Unless he flat-out rejects the deal before his start, there's no way he pitches in an Astros uni tomorrow.

[pots]

Another silly philly radio rumor.  Drayton and owner of the phillies are currently haggling over the money part of the deal.

[Reuben]

Another silly philly radio rumor.  Drayton and owner of the phillies are currently haggling over the money part of the deal.

In reality, it's that Philly wants Drayton to start carrying pre-made cheese steak subs in all of his grocery stores. Its probably just a question of how many subs at this point.

[moriartp]

ESPN Insider via MLBTR:

Jayson Stark emails that he's confirmed some other details. One is that Houston would get three players back -- J.A. Happ and two prospects. Nobody is revealing names of the prospects, but Houston has pressed hard for Phillies' best hitting prospect now that Domonic Brown is in the big leagues, Class A first baseman Jonathan Singleton.

Stark also heard from one strong source that the Astros offered to pay $12 million of the $23-plus million left on Oswalt's contract through next year. No confirmation that this is the exact figure.

[Russe]

For $12MM, the 'Stros ought to be able to pillage the Phils' farm system like a marauding viking.

[Duman]

For $12MM, the 'Stros ought to be able to pillage the Phils' farm system like a marauding viking.

"What's in your farmsystem?" 

Jackastro we need a graphic of Ed Wade as one of the capitol one vikings. - please!

[Alkie]

"What's in your farmsystem?" 

Jackastro we need a graphic of Ed Wade as one of the capitol one vikings. - please!

And make me cute this time.   With big tits and a hot lesbian lover.

[Reuben]

For $12MM, the 'Stros ought to be able to pillage the Phils' farm system like a marauding viking.

No f'ing kidding! If that figure is accurate, geez-us.

[hostros7]

No f'ing kidding! If that figure is accurate, geez-us.

For $12mm, I would have thought the Astros would have been in play for Brown (pre-Victorino DLing).  JA Happ and a couple single A prospects doesn't make sense.  

[Noe]

If the Astros get Haap, Worley and Singleton, then they've done really good for such a hard deal to consumate.

[pots]

According to philly radio, Stark tweeted Roy says he will okay the deal

[hostros7]

verified via the interwebs

http://twitter.com/jaysonst

[matadorph]

If Drayton is sending them 11 million AND Roy, we better be getting Happ, Singleton, Cosart, and a handjob.

[pots]

For today's day and age, it's amazing the 2 prospects names haven't leaked yet.  Though Crapenthol says Singleton is not one of the prospects.

[pots]

Well the rumor seems to be Gose and Worley are your 2 prospects.

[Matt]

Well the rumor seems to be Gose and Worley are your 2 prospects.

Plus 11 million going to the Phillies?

[pots]

According to Philly radio, it's pending physicals now.

[Houston]

Does this mean we are no longer a Hap-less franchise?

[Lurch]

Does this mean we are no longer a Hap-less franchise?

Boooooooo

[Greg M]

What's the scouting report on Happ?

[pots]

No heir apparant to Berkman in deal apparantly.  Kind of got my hopes up there.

[Ron Brand]

No heir apparant to Berkman in deal apparantly.  Kind of got my hopes up there.

Sucks if true. Singleton would have made this deal a lot more attractive, given the $$$.

[Matt]

No heir apparant to Berkman in deal apparantly.  Kind of got my hopes up there.

Singleton's name keeps creeping in and out of the deal. If they're sending $11 million I would expect he's included.

[jbm]

It would be interesting to know the genesis of all the rumors. They are all over the map.

Is the situation really that fluid?  Planned stuff designed to control expectations?  "Sources" that just like to fuck with people?

[BudGirl]

Are the O's Bros included in the deal?

[Matt]

Are the O's Bros included in the deal?

If the Phillies take them, they will also receive two free Oswalt innings

[BudGirl]

If the Phillies take them, they will also receive two free Oswalt innings

I say we toss in the Little Pumas too.

[JackAstro]

I can't keep track of all this shit. Is Kepp still rumored to be in the deal, along with 11 million?

[BlownRanger]

It would be interesting to know the genesis of all the rumors. They are all over the map.

Is the situation really that fluid?  Planned stuff designed to control expectations?  "Sources" that just like to fuck with people?

Why should this story be any different than any other that involves a lot of interest?

The answers to your questions are:  "probably not", "sort of", and "quite possibly".  The planned stuff is probably designed more to affect the market than to control expectations, although it would be scary to find out there are actually front office folks crazy enough to put any stock in the internet rumor mill.

I think it's funny when, after it's all said and done, you get the inevitable "I got it from a reliable source!".  I wonder if any one of these guys has ever stripped a source of their "reliable" tag.  I doubt it.