Author Topic: Manny being... you know (Read 4024 times)

TheWizard · « **on:** October 20, 2009, 11:33:32 pm »

Quote

Those who watched the ninth inning of Game 4 in the National League Championship Series won't soon forget it.

Manny Ramirez wasn't one of those people.

When asked prior to Tuesday's workout how surprised he was to see Jimmy Rollins beat the Dodgers with a walk-off double into the right-center gap the night before, Ramirez said he was in the shower at the time.

"When I came out, they were turning the TVs off and everybody was coming in," Ramirez said.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10246996/Manny:-I-was-in-the-shower-when-Phils-came-back

I'm truly convinced its no act, he really just does not give a F. Can anyone remember any other player that was as talented as him that had this mentality, AND actually produced when he was in the game? I'm sure there are lots of guys that were talented, but their I don't give a F mentality stunted their professional athlete growth.

Bench · « **Reply #1 on:** October 20, 2009, 11:37:14 pm »

He really gives an "F" when he's at bat.

Rebel Jew · « **Reply #2 on:** October 21, 2009, 09:24:24 am »

Quote from: TheWizard on October 20, 2009, 11:33:32 pm

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10246996/Manny:-I-was-in-the-shower-when-Phils-came-back

I'm truly convinced its no act, he really just does not give a F. Can anyone remember any other player that was as talented as him that had this mentality, AND actually produced when he was in the game? I'm sure there are lots of guys that were talented, but their I don't give a F mentality stunted their professional athlete growth.

i don't get why people criticize him so much for his "mentality." he produces at the heart of the lineup for playoff teams year after year. who cares if he "gives an F" or not? what is he really taking away from the team that compares to what he contributes to it? more consistent left field defense? you suggest that his attitude has prevented him from fully realizing his talent, but what has he not realized? steroids aside, he's a surefire hall of famer.

MRaup · « **Reply #3 on:** October 21, 2009, 11:04:41 am »

Quote from: Joey Trum on October 21, 2009, 09:24:24 am

i don't get why people criticize him so much for his "mentality." he produces at the heart of the lineup for playoff teams year after year. who cares if he "gives an F" or not? what is he really taking away from the team that compares to what he contributes to it? more consistent left field defense? you suggest that his attitude has prevented him from fully realizing his talent, but what has he not realized? steroids aside, he's a surefire hall of famer.

Because he's a horrific fielder and a scumbag?

Instead of trying to improve himself and help his team, he just says "fuck it, I'm a hitter and that's it." He'd rather go take a shower than see if his team wins a fucking playoff game? Seriosly?

Rebel Jew · « **Reply #4 on:** October 21, 2009, 01:26:10 pm »

Quote from: MRaup on October 21, 2009, 11:04:41 am

Because he's a horrific fielder and a scumbag?

Instead of trying to improve himself and help his team, he just says "fuck it, I'm a hitter and that's it." He'd rather go take a shower than see if his team wins a fucking playoff game? Seriosly?

what i'm saying is whether or not he cares about the overall team, his 'selfish' focus on hitting helps the team immensely, far more than his attitude detracts from it. he doesn't sabotage the team, he just doesn't care, but that doesn't mean he doesn't do the things he needs to do to produce on the field, especially as a left fielder.

BudGirl · « **Reply #5 on:** October 21, 2009, 01:29:01 pm »

Quote from: Joey Trum on October 21, 2009, 01:26:10 pm

what i'm saying is whether or not he cares about the overall team, his 'selfish' focus on hitting helps the team immensely, far more than his attitude detracts from it. he doesn't sabotage the team, he just doesn't care, but that doesn't mean he doesn't do the things he needs to do to produce on the field, especially as a left fielder.

not caring can sabotage a team, imo.

MRaup · « **Reply #6 on:** October 21, 2009, 03:02:49 pm »

Quote from: Joey Trum on October 21, 2009, 01:26:10 pm

what i'm saying is whether or not he cares about the overall team, his 'selfish' focus on hitting helps the team immensely, far more than his attitude detracts from it. he doesn't sabotage the team, he just doesn't care, but that doesn't mean he doesn't do the things he needs to do to produce on the field, especially as a left fielder.

You honestly don't think that a shitty attitude from a team's superstar can't hurt a team?

Wow.

Rebel Jew · « **Reply #7 on:** October 21, 2009, 03:19:01 pm »

Quote from: MRaup on October 21, 2009, 03:02:49 pm

You honestly don't think that a shitty attitude from a team's superstar can't hurt a team?

Wow.

it can obviously hurt a team, but not as much as his hitting helps the team. i don't think, for example, they lost the game because he wasn't watching the end, and i don't think the bad vibes from him not watching will hurt them too much in their next game. but if he were to hit a two-run homer in the next game it would help the team a great amount.

look, he's been a key contributor on playoff teams for the last however many years. i know he's not the only reason for that, but if his don't-care attitude was so poisonous despite his offensive contributious then you would think it would have affected the overall performance of the team, which it hasn't.

BUWebguy · « **Reply #8 on:** October 21, 2009, 04:02:56 pm »

I think the point is that "great-hitting OF who cares" > "great-hitting OF who doesn't care". In other words, as good as Manny is, and as much as he contributes to the team, he could be THAT MUCH BETTER by simply caring and putting forth a little more effort.

Lurch · « **Reply #9 on:** October 21, 2009, 04:33:05 pm »

Quote from: Joey Trum on October 21, 2009, 03:19:01 pm

... you would think it would have affected the overall performance of the team, which it hasn't.

It very well might have, but we couldn't possibly know one way or the other. For example, I could easily see his attitude turning away a younger guy on the team who might otherwise benefit by learning from him or whomever would otherwise be in his spot on the roster. He clearly knows something about hitting a ball besides where to find a vein. Obviously Brad is an edge case, but that was a great story showing the positive impact a veteran can (and probably should) have on their team... even when not playing.

GreatBagwellsBeard · « **Reply #10 on:** October 21, 2009, 05:00:37 pm »

Quote from: Lurch on October 21, 2009, 04:33:05 pm

It very well might have, but we couldn't possibly know one way or the other. For example, I could easily see his attitude turning away a younger guy on the team who might otherwise benefit by learning from him or whomever would otherwise be in his spot on the roster. He clearly knows something about hitting a ball besides where to find a vein. Obviously Brad is an edge case, but that was a great story showing the positive impact a veteran can (and probably should) have on their team... even when not playing.

You've hit on the key here. Manny's attitude, in Boston and in LA, is not as big of an issue precisely because guys like Brad and Jason Varitek are shouldering the load of providing team leadership and setting the tone in the clubhouse. A rookie might be able to go to Manny for hitting tips, but he'll look to the real leaders for real guidence.

Mr. Happy · « **Reply #11 on:** October 21, 2009, 07:49:55 pm »

Manny = Trash

TheWizard · « **Reply #12 on:** October 21, 2009, 09:00:10 pm »

Quote from: Joey Trum on October 21, 2009, 09:24:24 am

i don't get why people criticize him so much for his "mentality." he produces at the heart of the lineup for playoff teams year after year. who cares if he "gives an F" or not? what is he really taking away from the team that compares to what he contributes to it? more consistent left field defense? you suggest that his attitude has prevented him from fully realizing his talent, but what has he not realized? steroids aside, he's a surefire hall of famer.

That's not what I suggested at all. I never said that his attitude prevented him from fully realizing his talent. Quite the opposite, I think that his production is amazing, the guy is a terror in the batting box. In fact, the whole point of what I said was that he is a beast despite his attitude.

But like others are saying, there are other ways to contribute to his team other than just hitting the baseball. As far as being a hitter, the guy wouldn't be much different if he was as passionate as Berkman at a buffet.

But in the shower when your team is trying to win a playoff game. And not even knowing what happened??? Haha, I mean.. no radio on, no TV?? Jeebus.

Bench · « **Reply #13 on:** October 21, 2009, 09:12:26 pm »

Quote from: TheWizard on October 21, 2009, 09:00:10 pm

But in the shower when your team is trying to win a playoff game. And not even knowing what happened??? Haha, I mean.. no radio on, no TV?? Jeebus.

I think that's kind of zen in an imbecilic sort of way. The very essence of "Manny being Manny."

OregonStrosFan · « **Reply #14 on:** October 22, 2009, 01:09:24 am »

Quote from: TheWizard on October 21, 2009, 09:00:10 pm

***Quite the opposite, I think that his production is amazing, the guy is a terror in the batting box. In fact, the whole point of what I said was that he is a beast despite his attitude.***

The terror part might not hold so true any longer...

Per Baseball-Reference, Manny posted second-half slash stats of .255 AVG /.379 OBP /.459 SLG /.838 OPS, and a batting line as follows: 68 G, 64 GS, 277 PA, 231 AB, 32 R, 59 H, 13 2B, 2 3B, 10 HR, 34 RBI, 40 BB, 60 SO).

His average slash stats in 8 years with the Red Sox were as follows: .312 AVG / .411 OBP / .588 SLG / .999 OPS
Those numbers were very similar in his 8 years with the Indians: .313 AVG / .407 OBP / .592 SLG / .998 OPS

Some significant decreases there... Some of the decrease surely relates to being rusty coming off the 50 game suspension, but (based on limited data) the more likely cause of the decrease in hitting performance relates to the decrease in 'performance enhancers.'

Duman · « **Reply #15 on:** October 22, 2009, 08:26:47 am »

His half hearted running out of the fisted grounder last night again shows how little he cares. A little hustle might cause the pitcher to rush his throw. It doesn't insure he will be safe but it increases the chances, even if just by a little. Glad I don't have to watch him anymore this year.

BUWebguy · « **Reply #16 on:** October 22, 2009, 10:04:15 am »

Quote from: OregonStrosFan on October 22, 2009, 01:09:24 am

The terror part might not hold so true any longer...

Per Baseball-Reference, Manny posted second-half slash stats of .255 AVG /.379 OBP /.459 SLG /.838 OPS, and a batting line as follows: 68 G, 64 GS, 277 PA, 231 AB, 32 R, 59 H, 13 2B, 2 3B, 10 HR, 34 RBI, 40 BB, 60 SO).

His average slash stats in 8 years with the Red Sox were as follows: .312 AVG / .411 OBP / .588 SLG / .999 OPS
Those numbers were very similar in his 8 years with the Indians: .313 AVG / .407 OBP / .592 SLG / .998 OPS

Some significant decreases there... Some of the decrease surely relates to being rusty coming off the 50 game suspension, but (based on limited data) the more likely cause of the decrease in hitting performance relates to the decrease in 'performance enhancers.'

Playing half his games in Dodger Stadium could have something to do with that, too, eh?

MusicMan · « **Reply #17 on:** October 22, 2009, 10:13:34 am »

Quote from: BUWebguy on October 22, 2009, 10:04:15 am

Playing half his games in Dodger Stadium could have something to do with that, too, eh?

Fair point. Away, 2009: .316/.454/.537

OregonStrosFan · « **Reply #18 on:** October 22, 2009, 11:06:29 am »

Quote from: BUWebguy on October 22, 2009, 10:04:15 am

Playing half his games in Dodger Stadium could have something to do with that, too, eh?

Quote from: MusicMan on October 22, 2009, 10:13:34 am

Fair point. Away, 2009: .316/.454/.537

I refuse to allow objectivity get in the way of a good Manny is a shithead and steroid cheat rant. So there!

Mr. Happy · « **Reply #19 on:** October 22, 2009, 04:28:24 pm »

Quote from: OregonStrosFan on October 22, 2009, 01:09:24 am

The terror part might not hold so true any longer...

Per Baseball-Reference, Manny posted second-half slash stats of .255 AVG /.379 OBP /.459 SLG /.838 OPS, and a batting line as follows: 68 G, 64 GS, 277 PA, 231 AB, 32 R, 59 H, 13 2B, 2 3B, 10 HR, 34 RBI, 40 BB, 60 SO).

His average slash stats in 8 years with the Red Sox were as follows: .312 AVG / .411 OBP / .588 SLG / .999 OPS
Those numbers were very similar in his 8 years with the Indians: .313 AVG / .407 OBP / .592 SLG / .998 OPS

Some significant decreases there... Some of the decrease surely relates to being rusty coming off the 50 game suspension, but (based on limited data) the more likely cause of the decrease in hitting performance relates to the decrease in 'performance enhancers.'

And that the prick is 37.

strosrays · « **Reply #20 on:** October 22, 2009, 09:18:43 pm »

I have never understood the extreme animus towards Ramirez. I understand some don't like him or appreciate his style of play but, damn.

Alkie · « **Reply #21 on:** October 22, 2009, 09:22:17 pm »

Well, he IS a motherfucking cheater of the highest order. There's that.

Mr. Happy · « **Reply #22 on:** October 22, 2009, 09:42:14 pm »

Quote from: strosrays on October 22, 2009, 09:18:43 pm

I have never understood the extreme animus towards Ramirez. I understand some don't like him or appreciate his style of play but, damn.

Manny Ramirez is a sham who is all about Manny Ramirez. He lost my vote forever whenever he was purposefully laying on his leg for months until the Red Sox traded him.

Col. Sphinx Drummond · « **Reply #23 on:** October 22, 2009, 09:46:00 pm »

He's unable to conceive and that's kind of sad in a weird sort of way.

Limey · « **Reply #24 on:** October 23, 2009, 09:04:15 am »

Quote from: Bench on October 21, 2009, 09:12:26 pm

I think that's kind of zen in an imbecilic sort of way. The very essence of "Manny being Manny."

"Manny being Manny" is just a lame excuse for Manny being a douchebag. As Sarah Silverman pointed out, when some actress or singer behaves unbelievably selfishly and claims that she's just a "diva", she's not a "diva", she's a cunt.

Lurch · « **Reply #25 on:** October 23, 2009, 10:18:46 am »

Violates ebay policy, and no front license plate... case. closed.

(http://www.300cforums.com/forums/attachments/exterior-modifications/29918d1217878529-i-want-these-rims-what-they-manny_300.jpg)

Bench · « **Reply #26 on:** October 23, 2009, 10:19:59 am »

Quote from: Mr. Happy on October 22, 2009, 09:42:14 pm

Manny Ramirez is a sham who is all about Manny Ramirez. He lost my vote forever whenever he was purposefully laying on his leg for months until the Red Sox traded him.

There's two sides to that story but only one ever gets told.

Limey · « **Reply #27 on:** October 23, 2009, 10:25:06 am »

Quote from: Lurch on October 23, 2009, 10:18:46 am

Violates ebay policy, and no front license plate... case. closed.

I know that the internet is chock full o' nuts...but $100k for Manny's old gas grill? WTF?

BudGirl · « **Reply #28 on:** October 23, 2009, 10:27:16 am »

Quote from: Bench on October 23, 2009, 10:19:59 am

There's two sides to that story but only one ever gets told.

usually there are three sides.

GreatBagwellsBeard · « **Reply #29 on:** October 23, 2009, 10:52:39 am »

Quote from: Sphinx Drummond on October 22, 2009, 09:46:00 pm

He's unable to conceive and that's kind of sad in a weird sort of way.

Nominated.