I Agree With Sarah Palin

[strosrays]

Leave her underage child out of it, that is going too far.

Sarah Palin Blasts David Letterman

I don't blame her and her husband for being pissed off, I would be, too; even if it occurred to me (and apparently it didn't to the Palins) that Letterman's comment was more than likely just a weak and misguided attempt at humor.  I don't think the quip was intended to be malicious, but it was pretty thoughtless, at least.

Still, Palin immediately undermines her point by insisting on trying to characterize Letterman as some kind of pedophile.  That's just ridiculous, but she goes on and on about it.

That is one problem with affecting moral supremecy - sometimes you miss the point.  Letterman's been mailing it in for years; he probably didn't even go over the list beforehand.

[Bench]

Where did Letterman allude to her 14 year old daughter?  It seemed to me he was referring to Bristol, who has willingly made herself a public figure as she preaches abstinence-only education without the slightest indiciation of self-awareness.  For that matter, how does rape come in?  And besides, anytime you can take an unprovoked swipe at A-Rod earns you a little license.

This is the typical strawman/false-high horse that we've come to expect from Palin.  

Strosrays, are you trying to kill Limey?  

[chuck]

I doubt very seriously that Letterman knew that the 14 year old was with her mother rather than the already knocked up 18 year old.

Palin is a painfully stupid human being and making a fuss over something silly like this only calls further attention to it. I can't wait for that idiot to drive a final nail in the heart of the religious nutcase party two and three years from now.

[Guinness]

Palin is a painfully stupid human being and making a fuss over something silly like this only calls further attention to it. I can't wait for that idiot to drive a final nail in the heart of the religious nutcase party two and three years from now.

I think the best nickname for her is Bible Spice.  That was a good one.  By an odd synchronicity, I first heard it on Letterman (via an Alec Baldwin interview).
On a side note, I think Alec Baldwin is trying to be the next William Shatner--kooky, elder actor type.

[MusicMan]

http://www.spikesnstars.com/forums/index.php?topic=106772.msg239205#msg239205

[Alkie]

I can't wait for that idiot to drive a final nail in the heart of the religious nutcase party two and three years from now.

This is why I married you.

[Jacksonian]

Where did Letterman allude to her 14 year old daughter?  It seemed to me he was referring to Bristol, who has willingly made herself a public figure as she preaches abstinence-only education without the slightest indiciation of self-awareness.  For that matter, how does rape come in?  And besides, anytime you can take an unprovoked swipe at A-Rod earns you a little license.

This is the typical strawman/false-high horse that we've come to expect from Palin.  

Strosrays, are you trying to kill Limey?  

Technically, Palin was right.  The 14 year old was with her in NY not Bristol.  Letterman, as s-r pointed out, mailed it in.  If he'd done even the slightest bit of homework, he'd never have done the joke.  They both, Palin and Letterman, come off as asses.  And A-Rod jokes earn no license when you mail it in.

[Alkie]

Technically, Palin was right.  The 14 year old was with her in NY not Bristol.  Letterman, as s-r pointed out, mailed it in.  If he'd done even the slightest bit of homework, he'd never have done the joke.  They both, Palin and Letterman, come off as asses.  And A-Rod jokes earn no license when you mail it in.

Well, that's the real issue here.  Who gives a fuck what Letterman says in 2009?

[kevwun]

Palin might, might have a leg to stand on if she didn't do something to get media attention every few weeks.  This is just another opportunity to scream "Look at me" in front of cameras or microphones.

[Bench]

Technically, Palin was right.  The 14 year old was with her in NY not Bristol.  Letterman, as s-r pointed out, mailed it in.  If he'd done even the slightest bit of homework, he'd never have done the joke.  They both, Palin and Letterman, come off as asses.  And A-Rod jokes earn no license when you mail it in.

The literal fact of which daughter was with her on the trip has nothing to do with the joke (which is a dud on its own merits).

[JimR]

what MM said.

Shut The Fuck Up, everyone.

[Limey]

I'm saying nothing.  I don't want anything to interfere with Palin's run for the White House in 2012.  Her, Gingrinch (sic), Multiple Mitt and assorted other crazies will be classic TV.

[TheWizard]

Fuck Palin.

Wait, that sounds like a joke on its own...

[Rebel Jew]

I know what this thread needs:

Dee Dee Ramone telling stories about doing heroin with Johnny Thunders

[Fredia]

i have three daughters all grown up.. but i would have fought like a tiger had someone said something bout that about my 14 year old...

[Alkie]

i have three daughters all grown up.. but i would have fought like a tiger had someone said something bout that about my 14 year old...

Not me.  I'm a flaming liberal, and as such, welcome total strangers making jokes about raping my underage daughter.   Also, I'm for baby killing and giving shit away to the lazy.

(Ok, two of those are true).

[Noe]

Not me.  I'm a flaming liberal, and as such, welcome total strangers making jokes about raping my underage daughter.   Also, I'm for baby killing and giving shit away to the lazy.

(Ok, two of those are true).

You forgot to add that as a liberal, you would fight like a tiger if you saw someone clubbing a baby seal just so they could wear it's fur as a summer coat.

[Alkie]

You forgot to add that as a liberal, you would fight like a tiger if you saw someone clubbing a baby seal and wear it's fur as a summer coat.

We're not allowed to fight like tigers.  It might be offensive to big cats.

[Noe]

We're not allowed to fight like tigers.  It might be offensive to big cats.

Praying Mantis then.

[chuck]

i have three daughters all grown up.. but i would have fought like a tiger had someone said something bout that about my 14 year old...

Letterman's pretty tall. I think he'd have the reach on you.

[strosrays]

Letterman's pretty tall. I think he'd have the reach on you.

She'll need to rope-a-dope, and wear him down.  Dude's got a bad ticker.

[chuck]

She'll need to rope-a-dope, and wear him down.  Dude's got a bad ticker.

That or the good old Zwolle Tamale. That gets 'em every time.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

i have three daughters all grown up.. but i would have fought like a tiger had someone said something bout that about my 14 year old...

Keep your 14 year old daughters away from A-Rod, and no one talks. Problems solved.

[cc]

I doubt very seriously that Letterman knew that the 14 year old was with her mother rather than the already knocked up 18 year old.

Palin is a painfully stupid human being and making a fuss over something silly like this only calls further attention to it. I can't wait for that idiot to drive a final nail in the heart of the religious nutcase party two and three years from now.

This is a painfully stupid statement.  Actually you compound its stupidity with the second statement.  Good, cogent commentary on your part.  Keep it up.  We all love a little intelligent political discourse when we can get it.  It's great to know it's not just us Jesus-freak conservatives that are too interested in good ole red meat, ad hominem attacks to bother with meaningful discussion of issues.

Good job, you got me riled up.  You do your lefty side proud.

[chuck]

This is a painfully stupid statement.  Actually you compound its stupidity with the second statement.  Good, cogent commentary on your part.  Keep it up.  We all love a little intelligent political discourse when we can get it.  It's great to know it's not just us Jesus-freak conservatives that are too interested in good ole red meat, ad hominem attacks to bother with meaningful discussion of issues.

Good job, you got me riled up.  You do your lefty side proud.

I know it's not in the Bible so you probably don't believe it, but Africa is a continent, not a country.

I'd mention Australia but I wouldn't want to confuse you any further.

[chuck]

By the way, I do not claim any association with the "lefty side." I am a small business owner who hates taxes, big government, fiscal irresponsibility, etc.

I just happen to think that if your brain consists of the puss from an ass scab of a syphilitic rhino you should probably shut the fuck up, especially if your nomination and the revelation that you are a fucking idiot and an incredible hypocrite has contributed prominently to a sound defeat of your religious nutjob party. But of course I'm delighted that she can't and won't.

[Ebby Calvin]

Oh goody!  A religion debate and a Palin thread all rolled into one!
/grabs_popcorn
/heads_for_bomb_shelter

[BudGirl]

I wish Sarah Palin would go away so these threads would go with her. 

[Alkie]

I wish Sarah Palin would go away so these threads would go with her. 

I will help pay for it.

Pass the hat.

[JaneDoe]

I will help pay for it.

Pass the hat.

Got one right here.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Well, we all know the saying... Opinions are like assholes.  Everyone's got one and everyone think's the other guy's stinks worse than their own.  However, I've come to realize this only applies to those of us in the middle somewhere.  The extremely arrogant and condescending, i.e. the far right and far left, mix in a metaphorical (pardon me if I misused the term) case of irritable bowel syndrome, so to speak.  

[Limey]

Keep your 14 year old daughters away from A-Rod Roger Clemens, and no one talks. Problems solved.

Easiest fix, ever.

[Bench]

This is a painfully stupid statement.  Actually you compound its stupidity with the second statement.  Good, cogent commentary on your part.  Keep it up.  We all love a little intelligent political discourse when we can get it.  It's great to know it's not just us Jesus-freak conservatives that are too interested in good ole red meat, ad hominem attacks to bother with meaningful discussion of issues.

Good job, you got me riled up.  You do your lefty side proud.

The entire point of this thread, and Palin's hyper-reaction, is that this isn't a meaningful issue.

[Andyzipp]

The entire point of this thread, and Palin's hyper-reaction, is that this isn't a meaningful issue.

Neither is Sarah Palin a meaningful person...and yet here we are...

[strosrays]

Neither is Sarah Palin a meaningful person...and yet here we are...

That's just it.  She's mezzzmerizzing.

[Andyzipp]

That's just it.  She's mezzzmerizzing.

She's a physically attractive fifty-year old.  She probably does anal to keep Todd happy.  She's not anything more than a hail mary for a dead-in-the-water campaign, who has deluded herself into thinking she's a factor in 2012 or 2016.

[Arky Vaughan]

Neither is Sarah Palin a meaningful person...and yet here we are...

No doubt. The people who let her get under their skin seem even more obsessed with Palin than those in "the heart of the religious nutcase party."

[Arky Vaughan]

She's a physically attractive fifty-year old.  She probably does anal to keep Todd happy.  She's not anything more than a hail mary for a dead-in-the-water campaign, who has deluded herself into thinking she's a factor in 2012 or 2016.

She's apparently not the only one deluded into thinking that, judging by what her detractors have to say in this thread.

[Outlawscotty]

She's a physically attractive fifty-year old.  She probably does anal to keep Todd happy.  She's not anything more than a hail mary for a dead-in-the-water campaign, who has deluded herself into thinking she's a factor in 2012 or 2016.

Considering where we stand as a nation today, this is bad how?  Why does it bother you so much?  Who cares?  I mean, if it keeps Todd happy......

[Andyzipp]

She's apparently not the only one deluded into thinking that, judging by what her detractors have to say in this thread.

When is Texas seceding?  Has that been scheduled yet?

[Arky Vaughan]

When is Texas seceding?  Has that been scheduled yet?

Does Rick Perry lurk here? Perhaps he can fill us in.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

When is Texas seceding?  Has that been scheduled yet?

We're all "right behind you" (not an intentional play on your Palin-Anal reference)....

[Guinness]

Does Rick Perry lurk here? Perhaps he can fill us in.

There's not nearly enough discussion of hair products on this board to keep him interested.

[Andyzipp]

There's not nearly enough discussion of hair products on this board to keep him interested.

I just figured with the broken collar-bone, he had some time on his hands.  A man can only style his hair so many times in a given day.

[Jacksonian]

I just figured with the broken collar-bone, he had some time on his hands.  A man can only style his hair so many times in a given day.

Not.

Signed,

Mel Kiper

[geezerdonk]

It's not how many times you style; it's how you style - your styling style, if you will.

Very Truly Yours,

John Edwards

[austro]

I just figured with the broken collar-bone, he had some time on his hands.  A man can only style his hair so many times in a given day.

You're fired.

-- Donald Trump

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

By the way, I do not claim any association with the "lefty side." I am a small business owner who hates taxes, big government, fiscal irresponsibility, etc.

I just happen to think that if your brain consists of the puss from an ass scab of a syphilitic rhino you should probably shut the fuck up...

See that's the difference between you and me. I think that even if your brain consists of a blended cocktail of turd-born maggots and the humus of some primordial spume pool, one should still speak, loud and often.

[juliogotay]

See that's the difference between you and me. I think that even if your brain consists of a blended cocktail of turd-born maggots and the humus of some primordial spume pool, one should still speak, loud and often.

Obama agrees with you . He doesn't muzzle Biden.

[Arky Vaughan]

See that's the difference between you and me. I think that even if your brain consists of a blended cocktail of turd-born maggots and the humus of some primordial spume pool, one should still speak, loud and often.

I also fail to understand how someone who hates taxes, big government, fiscal irresponsibility, etc. gets riled up about someone as insignificant as Sarah Palin is at this point next to the fait accompli of nationalization of the auto industry, the imminent federal takeover of healthcare, regulating the tobacco companies out of existence, etc. From a personal freedom perspective, Sarah Palin is currently pretty far down the threat list, nor are religious nutjobs the only kinds of zealots to be worried about.

[Bench]

I also fail to understand how someone who hates taxes, big government, fiscal irresponsibility, etc. gets riled up about someone as insignificant as Sarah Palin is at this point next to the fait accompli of nationalization of the auto industry, the imminent federal takeover of healthcare, regulating the tobacco companies out of existence, etc. From a personal freedom perspective, Sarah Palin is currently pretty far down the threat list, nor are religious nutjobs the only kinds of zealots to be worried about.

My company switched health insurance companies for the third time in three years.  I can't wait until I get medicare and can actually choose my own doctor.

[Alkie]

My company switched health insurance companies for the third time in three years.  I can't wait until I get medicare and can actually choose my own doctor.

No, no.  Health care works better when the end result is profit and not health.   Just because America has the most expensive health care in the world and some of the worst actual health is blind luck.   It's because people are lazy and won't work hard to earn the health they deserve.  Which of course is the point, isn't it?   It's much more important to say you earned something than it is to have to actually live with the indirect consequences.  I love that conservatives think this is about "giving shit away to the lazy" and not about "keeping the lazy from getting desperate enough to break into my house and steal my shit because they have to, to pay for their fucking cancer and/or drug treatment" as if liberals give a fuck about the poor and lazy any more than the conservatives do.

I don't care if you die in the street either, the difference is, the proof is in the pudding...if you as a society don't provide BASIC shit to keep the lowest on the totem pole from getting dangerously desperate, you end up with people nagging you for change at every intersection and breaking into your house to take your earned possessions.   Stick your fucking head in the sand all you want, it better not be my wife who gets mugged because you were too fucking short sighted to plan for the drug treatment of this person who can't get the help they would receive in any other first world nation but can't here because they weren't lucky enough to be the recipient of a trust fund.

I think it's incredibly interesting that people will scream bloody fucking murder about higher taxes but have no issue spending twice what they would have in increased taxes on health insurance and security for their precious suburban homes.   I have terrible health insurance that costs me 6% of my pre-tax dollars a year.   Then, on top of that, I have to actually PAY for health care should I need it.   $5,000 deductible and 20% copay after that.   So, let's say I actually need cancer care this year.   That means I've now spent 9% MINIMUM of my pre-tax dollars on health care.   But god, let's not spend 3% more in something labeled "taxes" instead of 9% in something labeled "health insurance" because then someone I'm not related to might also get care.   We can't have that.   I mean, if we did that, imagine how happy and productive that person might be!   They might not have to take a year off fucking work at my expense, not to mention the time it'll take me to train her replacement.   

No, keep on crossing your arms, making the pouting lips, and huffing "NO.  I.  WON'T." like a fucking 5 year old and let's continue down this path of for-profit-health-care because it's worked so fucking well this far.

I got news for you "pay to heal" crowd...the rich aren't any fucking healthier in this batshit system either.   Considering my tax bracket, I shouldn't be TERRIFIED of going to the doctor because I can't afford it.  But I am.

[Arky Vaughan]

My company switched health insurance companies for the third time in three years.  I can't wait until I get medicare and can actually choose my own doctor.

What does your company switching health insurers have to do with not being able to choose your own doctor? Did all three insurance companies share a single doctor whom you are forced to see? How much better will your choices be when you have to get on a lengthy waiting list to see that doctor under government care?

[Arky Vaughan]

No, no.  Health care works better when the end result is profit and not health.   Just because America has the most expensive health care in the world and some of the worst actual health is blind luck.   It's because people are lazy and won't work hard to earn the health they deserve.  Which of course is the point, isn't it?   It's much more important to say you earned something than it is to have to actually live with the indirect consequences.  I love that conservatives think this is about "giving shit away to the lazy" and not about "keeping the lazy from getting desperate enough to break into my house and steal my shit because they have to, to pay for their fucking cancer and/or drug treatment" as if liberals give a fuck about the poor and lazy any more than the conservatives do.

I don't care if you die in the street either, the difference is, the proof is in the pudding...if you as a society don't provide BASIC shit to keep the lowest on the totem pole from getting dangerously desperate, you end up with people nagging you for change at every intersection and breaking into your house to take your earned possessions.   Stick your fucking head in the sand all you want, it better not be my wife who gets mugged because you were too fucking short sighted to plan for the drug treatment of this person who can't get the help they would receive in any other first world nation but can't here because they weren't lucky enough to be the recipient of a trust fund.

I think it's incredibly interesting that people will scream bloody fucking murder about higher taxes but have no issue spending twice what they would have in increased taxes on health insurance and security for their precious suburban homes.   I have terrible health insurance that costs me 6% of my pre-tax dollars a year.   Then, on top of that, I have to actually PAY for health care should I need it.   $5,000 deductible and 20% copay after that.   So, let's say I actually need cancer care this year.   That means I've now spent 9% MINIMUM of my pre-tax dollars on health care.   But god, let's not spend 3% more in something labeled "taxes" instead of 9% in something labeled "health insurance" because then someone I'm not related to might also get care.   We can't have that.   I mean, if we did that, imagine how happy and productive that person might be!   They might not have to take a year off fucking work at my expense, not to mention the time it'll take me to train her replacement.  

No, keep on crossing your arms, making the pouting lips, and huffing "NO.  I.  WON'T." like a fucking 5 year old and let's continue down this path of for-profit-health-care because it's worked so fucking well this far.

I got news for you "pay to heal" crowd...the rich aren't any fucking healthier in this batshit system either.   Considering my tax bracket, I shouldn't be TERRIFIED of going to the doctor because I can't afford it.  But I am.

Wow. You've written a lot of crazy shit here, but this tops it all. Leveling the accusation that "conservatives think this is about 'giving shit away to the lazy'" is in itself intellectually lazy and not quite what I'd expect from someone who's smart enough to know better.

There are many more ways to address the holes in the healthcare system than devising a government option, that is supposedly to provide competition to the private insurers, but that will shift costs to the privately insured by underpaying for services and will ultimately put the private insurers out of business and force everyone into government care. Explain to me how the government stepping into the competitive sphere and driving all private firms in the industry out expands personal freedom? Explain to me how much you'd like that if it happened in your line of business?

The problems with the current system are already a direct result of government action -- deductibility of health costs primarily for employers, a relic of World War II wage and price controls that ties health insurance to employment; Medicare, which underpays true cost and forces providers to recoup a subsidy from other payers to make up for it; state coverage mandates and restrictions on interstate policies, which Congress could do away with if it wanted to.

As usual, government regulation creates fucked-up incentives and conditions in the market place, but the response is that "conservatives think this is about 'giving shit away to the lazy'" while we head to a government option that will result in rationing and lower quality. I'd hate to see your wife get mugged, but I'd also not like to see my wife dead because she can't get the healthcare she needs when we convert to a Canadian/UK-style system of six-month waiting lists for procedures you can get here in a few days.

[juliogotay]

Wow. You've written a lot of crazy shit here, but this tops it all. Leveling the accusation that "conservatives think this is about 'giving shit away to the lazy'" is in itself intellectually lazy and not quite what I'd expect from someone who's smart enough to know better.

There are many more ways to address the holes in the healthcare system than devising a government option, that is supposedly to provide competition to the private insurers, but that will shift costs to the privately insured by underpaying for services and will ultimately put the private insurers out of business and force everyone into government care. Explain to me how the government stepping into the competitive sphere and driving all private firms in the industry out expands personal freedom? Explain to me how much you'd like that if it happened in your line of business?

The problems with the current system are already a direct result of government action -- deductibility of health costs primarily for employers, a relic of World War II wage and price controls that ties health insurance to employment; Medicare, which underpays true cost and forces providers to recoup a subsidy from other payers to make up for it; state coverage mandates and restrictions on interstate policies, which Congress could do away with if it wanted to.

As usual, government regulation creates fucked-up incentives and conditions in the market place, but the response is that "conservatives think this is about 'giving shit away to the lazy'" while we head to a government option that will result in rationing and lower quality. I'd hate to see your wife get mugged, but I'd also not like to see my wife dead because she can't get the healthcare she needs when we convert to a Canadian/UK-style system of six-month waiting lists for procedures you can get here in a few days.

Government make nothing better. If you think GM has problems now....

[Bench]

What does your company switching health insurers have to do with not being able to choose your own doctor? Did all three insurance companies share a single doctor whom you are forced to see? How much better will your choices be when you have to get on a lengthy waiting list to see that doctor under government care?

Some facilities/doctors that were in network are now out of network, and vice-versa.

[Ebby Calvin]

Is there a way to put keywords on ignore?  You know, like "/ignore_Palin_thread" or "/delete_JdJO_Link" or "/WTF_cricket?"  I mean, I really have zero interest in the Palin/Letterman feud, yet here I am, reading every word of this thread.  Not that we're talking about that anymore, but you get the idea.

[Limey]

Government make nothing better. If you think GM has problems now....

This is a conservative meme that gets trotted out all the time, as it was one of Reagan's favourite applause lines, but it's really almost entirely untrue.  Social security and medicare, both government programs, are massively successful.  Medicare runs at an expense ratio that's about one tenth of the average of for-profit health insurers.  Do you like the interstates?  How about the best and most well equipped military ever seen on the planet.  All government programs.  Even FEMA, when not being run by Bush cronies, is excellent.  How about what the Coast Guard did during Katrina?  Who do you think pays them...ExxonMobil?

The truth is that the US Auto industry ran itself into the ground long before this crisis put them down for good.  Wall Street - the brightest of the bright operating without the hinderance of that awful government regulation - drove the entire world economy over a cliff.  Perhaps they weren't quite so bright, because the smartest guys in the room are mostly now in jail.  I agree that the government shouldn't be in the auto business, and it shouldn't be in the banking/investment business either.

They are, because the people running those businesses were fucking greedy and fucking useless.

[Limey]

There are many more ways to address the holes in the healthcare system than devising a government option, that is supposedly to provide competition to the private insurers, but that will shift costs to the privately insured by underpaying for services and will ultimately put the private insurers out of business and force everyone into government care.

One:  you say that like it's a bad thing.  Where is it written that someone has to be allowed to profit from the suffering of others?  Not the Bible, that's for sure.

Two:  It's actually not true.  Yes, the health insurance system will change and shrink, but those who can afford to pay for private insurance will still have a market, just as they do in the UK.

Three:  It's not government care.  It's government insurance.  Just like social security, medicare and the flood insurance on my house.

[juliogotay]

This is a conservative meme that gets trotted out all the time, as it was one of Reagan's favourite applause lines, but it's really almost entirely untrue.  Social security and medicare, both government programs, are massively successful.  Medicare runs at an expense ratio that's about one tenth of the average of for-profit health insurers.  Do you like the interstates?  How about the best and most well equipped military ever seen on the planet.  All government programs.  Even FEMA, when not being run by Bush cronies, is excellent.  How about what the Coast Guard did during Katrina?  Who do you think pays them...ExxonMobil?

The truth is that the US Auto industry ran itself into the ground long before this crisis put them down for good.  Wall Street - the brightest of the bright operating without the hinderance of that awful government regulation - drove the entire world economy over a cliff.  Perhaps they weren't quite so bright, because the smartest guys in the room are mostly now in jail.  I agree that the government shouldn't be in the auto business, and it shouldn't be in the banking/investment business either.

They are, because the people running those businesses were fucking greedy and fucking useless.

It's always about greed isn't it? Thankfully there is no greed in government.

Medicare and Social Security are massively successful? They are going broke, Limey. There is an apocalypic scenario coming with those programs that taxpayers won't possibly be able to bail out. Some generation, perhaps yourself, perhaps myself,  will get stuck holding the bag.

[Limey]

It's always about greed isn't it? Thankfully there is no greed in government.

Medicare and Social Security are massively successful? They are going broke, Limey. There is an apocalypic scenario coming with those programs that taxpayers won't possibly be able to bail out. Some generation, perhaps yourself, perhaps myself,  will get stuck holding the bag.

Medicare is a fantastic success.  It's not going broke.  The only "broke" part of it is the prescription drug plan, and that was broken by the drug companies and their lap dogs in Washington.

Social Security is not broke.  When Bush embarked on his ill-fated mission to take Social Security, or part of it at least, into the private sector (and how do you think that would be looking right about now?), the government projections were that in 2042, the program would arrive at the point when it first paid out more than it was receiving.  Bush used that to say that the program was broke, and that was exaggerated rhetoric of the highest order.  Regardless, Social Security in government hands is infinitely safer than it would have been in the hands of Bear Stearns and their ilk, or with AIG.

Even if one concedes that SS and Medicare aren't "fantastically successful", there's still plenty of other things that government does pretty well.  Like stopping the aeroplane in which you're flying from crashing into the one in which I'm flying.  And putting men on the moon.  And GPS satellite navigation, which will be on my new iPhone.  And National parks.  And street lighting.  And fire departments.  And police departments.

[Alkie]

Explain to me how the government stepping into the competitive sphere and driving all private firms in the industry out expands personal freedom? Explain to me how much you'd like that if it happened in your line of business?

You understand that my business is built entirely around MORE gov't regulation, right?   I hope they regulate the SHIT out of my industry so I can keep adding services to translate Governmentese into English.

And who said anything about allowing the gov't to drive all private firms out of business?   I'm talking about social services, not "all private firms."   I loves me some capitalism.  I can do this faster and cheaper than you can, so I get the business.   But health care isn't buying a hamburger.   Your enjoyment of today's lunch impacts me zero.   Your inabilty to heal yourself does.   

I'd hate to see your wife get mugged, but I'd also not like to see my wife dead because she can't get the healthcare she needs when we convert to a Canadian/UK-style system of six-month waiting lists for procedures you can get here in a few days.

Burk, I respect you way too much to get into the standard left vs right nyah-nyah with you.  You know as well as I do that it doesn't now and never has taken Canadians or Brits 6 months to get life saving procedures.   I've spoken to Brits.  I've spoken to Canadians.   If you have a non cancerous mole that needs removing, yeah, it might take a month to see a doctor.  But if you're dying of lung cancer, you get to see a specialist a hell of a lot faster than I do under the insane system we have here now, where the first question is (actually) "...and how will you be paying for this?"

Every year, there's a list published with the happiest countries on Earth, based on real polling of actual citizens.   This year, the top 10 countries had only one and exactly one thing in common.....exceptionally high tax rates and heavy social services.   As someone who has profited greatly off the fact that I can exploit the market and beat my competitors, I feel I have the right to say that if I could trade it all in so that I never had to worry about getting the fucking surgery that would cure my fucking daily dizziness (which will cost me $23,000 out of pocket, thanks to the brilliant system we have here) and know that I won't be allowed to be so broke that I can't afford basic groceries in old age, I would do it in a heartbeat.   

And feel free to throw out the "fine, LEAVE America then" because as you know, I tried and will be happy to do so.

[Limey]

And feel free to throw out the "fine, LEAVE America then" because as you know, I tried and will be happy to do so.

This one always makes me laugh.  Because America has always been run exactly the way it's run now.  Ever since 1776.  No one has ever moved here and changed the demographics, and therefore politics, of the country as a whole.  Not legally anyway.  And it's been this example of socio-economic perfection since day one.

[Alkie]

This one always makes me laugh.  Because America has always been run exactly the way it's run now.  Ever since 1776.  No one has ever moved here and changed the demographics, and therefore politics, of the country as a whole.  Not legally anyway.  And it's been this example of socio-economic perfection since day one.

You're suggesting leaving would be worse, no matter to where?

[Savage]

As usual, government regulation creates fucked-up incentives and conditions in the market place, but the response is that "conservatives think this is about 'giving shit away to the lazy'" while we head to a government option that will result in rationing and lower quality. I'd hate to see your wife get mugged, but I'd also not like to see my wife dead because she can't get the healthcare she needs when we convert to a Canadian/UK-style system of six-month waiting lists for procedures you can get here in a few days.

The alternative being we as a society put some actual thought into how a scarce resource (healthcare) gets allocated rather than leaving it up to money or time.  But far be it from us as a society to face the critical moral and allocation issues like mandatory preventive care, the appropriateness of the enormous expense of end-of-life care of the huge burden of costs of premature babies born of irresponsible fertility treatments.  It's much easier to fall into our comfortable corners of "government regulation sucks" and "conservatives have no empathy for the poor" than to face addressing the allocation of the actual resources and some of the underlying moral implications.  

[JimR]

what will it take to stop this stupid bullshit posting? that is the worst thing about the B&Q forum. you MFs do not realize how pointless it is to "debate" politics or religion. no one is going to change anyone else's mind. stop it, please .

[Alkie]

I agree and have spent the last hour or so wishing I hadn't posted it.

Let's move on.

Sex and beer anyone?

[Alkie]

Oh, ok, here we go.

So we decided to go to Bronx Zoo today to check it out.  It is most decidedly not 7 minutes away. 

Zoo was fine and all that, but that's not what I came to tell you about.

As we're walking the 2 blocks from the zoo back to the subway, some cocksucker shot my fucking wife in the side with a pellet gun.  She's not hurt or anything, but it sure scared the fuck out of her when she got hit.

Should the kid with the gun be strung up in the street and castrated or just sliced open so wolves can eat his insides -- DISCUSS.

[austro]

Thank goodness you were only 7 minutes away from Sarah Palin's government-sponsored healthcare provider. With pizza in the waiting room.

[Alkie]

Thank goodness you were only 7 minutes away from Sarah Palin's government-sponsored healthcare provider. With pizza in the waiting room.

No, like I said, the Zoo is most certainly not 7 minutes away.   We're no more than 7 minutes from most places between 28th Street and Harlem, but outside of that.....getting to the zoo on a day when our normal train doesn't run took a solid 40 minutes.   The train thru the Bronx is pretty cool because it's an elevated, not a subway. 

We had a pretty serious NYC day:
- Took the subway to a different borough
- Saw the Bronx Zoo
- Walked 2 miles in the rain without umbrellas.  I thought you brought it.  No, you said you brought it.
- My wife was shot
- We finally tried some Gray's Papaya.  Recession Special, one onion and tard, one kraut and tard, papaya.   It's good, but best hot dog ever?  Please.

[Bench]

No, like I said, the Zoo is most certainly not 7 minutes away.   We're no more than 7 minutes from most places between 28th Street and Harlem, but outside of that.....getting to the zoo on a day when our normal train doesn't run took a solid 40 minutes.   The train thru the Bronx is pretty cool because it's an elevated, not a subway. 

We had a pretty serious NYC day:
- Took the subway to a different borough
- Saw the Bronx Zoo
- Walked 2 miles in the rain without umbrellas.  I thought you brought it.  No, you said you brought it.
- My wife was shot
- We finally tried some Gray's Papaya.  Recession Special, one onion and tard, one kraut and tard, papaya.   It's good, but best hot dog ever?  Please.

Quite a nice zoo, eh?

The quality of a Gray's dog has a high correlation with the amount of beer consumed.

[Alkie]

Quite a nice zoo, eh?

The quality of a Gray's dog has a high correlation with the amount of beer consumed.

I assume the zoo was nice, we only saw about 5% of it before it started pouring.

And I have no trouble believing your Gray's Math.

[austro]

No, like I said, the Zoo is most certainly not 7 minutes away.   We're no more than 7 minutes from most places between 28th Street and Harlem, but outside of that.....getting to the zoo on a day when our normal train doesn't run took a solid 40 minutes.   The train thru the Bronx is pretty cool because it's an elevated, not a subway. 

We had a pretty serious NYC day:
- Took the subway to a different borough
- Saw the Bronx Zoo
- Walked 2 miles in the rain without umbrellas.  I thought you brought it.  No, you said you brought it.
- My wife was shot
- We finally tried some Gray's Papaya.  Recession Special, one onion and tard, one kraut and tard, papaya.   It's good, but best hot dog ever?  Please.

Whenever we go to a new city, we make a point of visiting the zoo, and we vote for a Most Valuable Animal. The criteria are flexible. We're usually partial to marsupials and small mammals, but the winners at the Portland zoo were definitely the mating elephants.

[juliogotay]

Whenever we go to a new city, we make a point of visiting the zoo, and we vote for a Most Valuable Animal. The criteria are flexible. We're usually partial to marsupials and small mammals, but the winners at the Portland zoo were definitely the mating elephants.

where is the favorite zoo you've visited?

[austro]

where is the favorite zoo you've visited?

An oldie-but-goodie: Brookfield Zoo in Chicago.

[Bench]

where is the favorite zoo you've visited?

My least favorite: Rome.  The most depressing zoo I've ever been to.

[BudGirl]

Oh, ok, here we go.

So we decided to go to Bronx Zoo today to check it out.  It is most decidedly not 7 minutes away. 

Zoo was fine and all that, but that's not what I came to tell you about.

As we're walking the 2 blocks from the zoo back to the subway, some cocksucker shot my fucking wife in the side with a pellet gun.  She's not hurt or anything, but it sure scared the fuck out of her when she got hit.

Should the kid with the gun be strung up in the street and castrated or just sliced open so wolves can eat his insides -- DISCUSS.

i would say strung up in the street and castrated.  i don't think there are a lot of wolves in NYC.

glad she is okay.

[Limey]

My least favorite: Rome.  The most depressing zoo I've ever been to.

Were they still feeding the lions on Christians?

[geezerdonk]

you MFs do not realize how pointless it is to "debate" politics or religion

How about them Hindus?

[Lurch]

what will it take to stop this stupid bullshit posting? that is the worst thing about the B&Q forum. you MFs do not realize how pointless it is to "debate" politics or religion. no one is going to change anyone else's mind. stop it, please .

With all respect, Jim, you look at this through experienced eyes.  Speaking for myself, I find these discussions enlightening.  Engaging in debates (as opposed to merely reading alone) is a valuable tool for learning, especially when it's with people you know.  Yes, we're unlikely to change one another's opinions, but at least we have an opportunity to better understand them.  You probably already have a grasp on the varied views and these discussions add little to that for you, but that doesn't make it less valuable to the rest of us.

B&Q is a unique opportunity for those of us have these types of conversations.  It's a small enough group that you're not debating with thousands of people, it is (generally) a highly intelligent, yet diverse group and it's kept somewhat in check by our familiarity with each other keeping personal attacks to a minimum.  You just can't find this elsewhere.

[JimR]

With all respect, Jim, you look at this through experienced eyes.  Speaking for myself, I find these discussions enlightening.  Engaging in debates (as opposed to merely reading alone) is a valuable tool for learning, especially when it's with people you know.  Yes, we're unlikely to change one another's opinions, but at least we have an opportunity to better understand them.  You probably already have a grasp on the varied views and these discussions add little to that for you, but that doesn't make it less valuable to the rest of us.

B&Q is a unique opportunity for those of us have these types of conversations.  It's a small enough group that you're not debating with thousands of people, it is (generally) a highly intelligent, yet diverse group and it's kept somewhat in check by our familiarity with each other keeping personal attacks to a minimum.  You just can't find this elsewhere.

bullshit. anger, epithets, pejoratives and arguments are not enlightening. if you consider all this "highly intelligent," i cringe to think of what you deal with on a daily basis.

[Lurch]

bullshit. anger, epithets, pejoratives and arguments are not enlightening. if you consider all this "highly intelligent," i cringe to think of what you deal with on a daily basis.

I feel comfortable getting around the emotions and finding enlightenment in the underlying context of the conversations.  That said, the emotions are understandable, and can in some cases also be interesting and valuable.  The personal attacks are, of course, unnecessary and pointless, but we don't see much of that here.

This group does appear to be highly intelligent as are those I deal with on a daily basis, fortunately.  But, I couldn't have these conversations with most of them as it wouldn't be appropriate.  I see this forum as different in that regard, and I appreciate it.

[Alkie]

The personal attacks are, of course, unnecessary and pointless, but we don't see much of that here.

The important thing to remember is that Arky is a cocksucker.  Who eats babies and gives them incurable diseases.

[BudGirl]

The important thing to remember is that Arky is a cocksucker.  Who eats babies and gives them incurable diseases.

not true, he gives those babies curable diseases, just not access to the cure.

[Andyzipp]

I feel comfortable getting around the emotions and finding enlightenment in the underlying context of the conversations.  That said, the emotions are understandable, and can in some cases also be interesting and valuable.  The personal attacks are, of course, unnecessary and pointless, but we don't see much of that here.

This group does appear to be highly intelligent as are those I deal with on a daily basis, fortunately.  But, I couldn't have these conversations with most of them as it wouldn't be appropriate.  I see this forum as different in that regard, and I appreciate it.

But it just turns into one side repeating their talking points over and over at the other side who is...also repeating their talking points.  Over and Over.  Go see the other Palin thread and see if after the 2nd page there were any ah-ha moments.

Neither side thinks the other has any credibility with their arguements.  Both think the other side is insane for thinking what they do.

It's all very pointless.

And Alkie, how is Arky eating babies when you're busy serving fetus tartar at your pro-abortion rallies?

[Andyzipp]

not true, he gives those babies curable diseases, just not access to the cure.

Unless they have a good job with white person insurance.

[JackAstro]

But it just turns into one side repeating their talking points over and over at the other side who is...also repeating their talking points.  Over and Over.  Go see the other Palin thread and see if after the 2nd page there were any ah-ha moments.

I thought pages 83 and 97 yielded some real insight*. You just need more patience.

*I have no idea what's on those pages.

[JimR]

But it just turns into one side repeating their talking points over and over at the other side who is...also repeating their talking points.  Over and Over.  Go see the other Palin thread and see if after the 2nd page there were any ah-ha moments.

Neither side thinks the other has any credibility with their arguements.  Both think the other side is insane for thinking what they do.

It's all very pointless.

And Alkie, how is Arky eating babies when you're busy serving fetus tartar at your pro-abortion rallies?

what he said. anyone who thinks those two threads are "highly intelligent" does not know intelligence.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

what he said. anyone who thinks those two threads are "highly intelligent" does not know intelligence.

"highly intelligent" for a clan of dung beetles, for humans, probably not so much.

[Lurch]

what he said. anyone who thinks those two threads are "highly intelligent" does not know intelligence.

To be clear, I said this group was (generally) highly intelligent.

[Arky Vaughan]

The important thing to remember is that Arky is a cocksucker.  Who eats babies and gives them incurable diseases.

Mmm mmm good. I must confess that I prefer the babies to the cocks, however.

[Bench]

Mmm mmm good. I must confess that I prefer the babies to the cocks, however.

Either way, it tastes like chicken.

[Arky Vaughan]

what he said. anyone who thinks those two threads are "highly intelligent" does not know intelligence.

The purpose of the B&Q is to have off-topic discussions notwithstanding how vapid they may be. I wouldn't expect much highly intelligent discourse here in any event.

[BudGirl]

Either way, it tastes like chicken.

I didn't know that about you. NTTAWWT