Author Topic: Interesting yet somewhat flawed exercise (Read 12339 times)

Noe · « **on:** May 20, 2009, 05:26:41 pm »

I was made aware by a tweet of this here:

Who is the best leadoff hitter in the MLB?

I like what he was trying to do, basically say Michael Bourn is having a good season, but I'm of the opinion he should have left it at that. You see, Bourn is not leading off, so how could he be the best? Maybe a good candidate or the best candidate in the MLB to leadoff, but see things change for a hitter that is hitting in front of Matsui or Keppinger instead of Lance Berkman. Although I will say this, his formula is sound and the categories he's using are well thought out in terms of what makes for a good leadoff man.

How much of the high scores for Bourn are a product of his own maturity as a hitter? I think you do have to give him credit for working hard with Berry to achieve this sort of nod in his favor. His approach is excellent, his ability recognize a pitch is sound and he's not swinging from his heels much any more. That makes for a good BA and OBP. Also helps with the ability to make a pitcher work, often having to go 3-2 on Bourn. I know it would be easy for me to take what is being said here and slam Cooper that he can't see what everyone else can see easily. I had to fight that temptation because it was not fair to do that. But let me just ask this for just conversation sake:

Bourn is a young guy who has a long future in the league for some team if this keeps up. Meaning if you might think he's turning the corner as a hitter and leadoff is tailor made for him, then the fact that he's young and will be here for a good long time (well beyond Matsui or anyone else at this point), why not go ahead and make a commitment yet again to placing him at leadoff and see if he can put a lock on that position. Might prove to be a position you can go ahead and say "we've got a leadoff hitter for many years now!"

BUWebguy · « **Reply #1 on:** May 20, 2009, 09:54:58 pm »

But Bourn is leading off!

What? Oh.

[/cooper]

Bench · « **Reply #2 on:** May 20, 2009, 11:47:46 pm »

Quote from: BUWebguy on May 20, 2009, 09:54:58 pm

But Bourn is leading off!

What? Oh.

[/cooper]

When the lineup was announced before the game, I was talking to the folks I was sitting about and we were all excited Cooper finally figured out that the leadoff hitter should lead off, and the 2 hitter should hit second. Bourn got his leadoff singe, but when I saw Macha take one step out of the dugout I realized that Cooper fucked up.

My question to those watching on TV, where the fuck was Cooper when the umps called Matsui out and negated Bourn's single? I figured at least he would come out of the dugout for an explanation, but he was nowhere to be seen. Bourn was announced leading off ten minutes before first pitch, and listed as such on the big board at the game. It honestly seemed like Coop wasn't even in the dugout during the first inning.

pravata · « **Reply #3 on:** May 21, 2009, 12:04:36 am »

Quote from: Bench on May 20, 2009, 11:47:46 pm

...My question to those watching on TV, where the fuck was Cooper when the umps called Matsui out and negated Bourn's single? ...

This is the most egregious part of the whole thing. "It's pronounced egregious". OK you screwed up the lineup card the four fail safes failed. Fine. It happens, it happened in Tampa a couple days ago. But where the hell are you? Footer tweeted that Blum was on the dugout steps listening to the umps explanation. The Manager should do his job.

BatGirl · « **Reply #4 on:** May 21, 2009, 01:32:26 am »

Quote from: pravata on May 21, 2009, 12:04:36 am

This is the most egregious part of the whole thing. "It's pronounced egregious". OK you screwed up the lineup card the four fail safes failed. Fine. It happens, it happened in Tampa a couple days ago. But where the hell are you? Footer tweeted that Blum was on the dugout steps listening to the umps explanation. The Manager should do his job.

further -
why did blum have to explain what was going on to a confused/upset bourn?

Reuben · « **Reply #5 on:** May 21, 2009, 01:45:13 am »

Quote from: BatGirl on May 21, 2009, 01:32:26 am

further -
why did blum have to explain what was going on to a confused/upset bourn?

on FSN, you could hear one of the umps, telling Bourn to go bat again, say "you don't have to understand. Just do it." I hate to say it, but was Coop just too embarrassed to get out of his seat right then? Bizarre.

Noe · « **Reply #6 on:** May 21, 2009, 04:12:09 am »

Quote from: Reuben on May 21, 2009, 01:45:13 am

on FSN, you could hear one of the umps, telling Bourn to go bat again, say "you don't have to understand. Just do it." I hate to say it, but was Coop just too embarrassed to get out of his seat right then? Bizarre.

I noticed how confrontational the home plate umpire was during that whole scenario. He said to Matsui "You're done, go sit down!" and then walked away from him. Matsui looked back to the bench in confusion, as if he was wondering why he was getting ejected! It was a funny look on Matsui's face. Then I heard the same comment as you with Bourn, which caused Bourn to immediately go after the umpire. But Puma stepped in and pushed Bourn back. That is when Blum got on the steps and explained to Bourn what had happened.

Players were in control of other players right there and Cooper was still trying to figure out with Romero what had just happened.

Tralfaz · « **Reply #7 on:** May 21, 2009, 07:23:40 am »

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see that the cameras were able to find Cooper. They showed Romero, alot. So much, that I was wondering if Cooper was serving a suspension and Romero was in charge. I had the sound on tv turned down, listening to Milo and he seemed perturbed as all of us, commenting "This CAN'T happen".

Coopers' post game interview was laced with alot of "This is my fault, I take full responsability". Then where were ya?

Noe · « **Reply #8 on:** May 21, 2009, 08:01:40 am »

Quote from: Tralfaz on May 21, 2009, 07:23:40 am

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see that the cameras were able to find Cooper. They showed Romero, alot. So much, that I was wondering if Cooper was serving a suspension and Romero was in charge. I had the sound on tv turned down, listening to Milo and he seemed perturbed as all of us, commenting "This CAN'T happen".

Coopers' post game interview was laced with alot of "This is my fault, I take full responsability". Then where were ya?

The camera caught his hand pointing to the card that Romero had on his hand and then his slamming it on the dugout rail when he realized it was the wrong card. You could see a profile of Coop a little after he slammed the card and he did not look happy. I'm not sure why he did not get involved more than that when the players in question (Bourn and Matsui) were being jostled by the umpires.

Duman · « **Reply #9 on:** May 21, 2009, 08:07:39 am »

Blum is candid about what he did:

Quote

"Nobody explained it to Michael," Blum said. "He started to get a little heated, he thought he did something wrong. I just wanted to make sure that he knew it wasn't his fault. You try to explain the situation and just calm him down. He's going to have to hit again. That was my main focus, to make sure he knew it had nothing to do with him."

Curiously, it was Blum, and not anyone from the coaching staff, to make sure Bourn kept his cool.

"I'll be honest, yeah, I was a little surprised," Blum said. "I don't know how often it happens over the course of the year, but I've got close to 10 years in. ... I heard about the one in Tampa the other day, and this is the first time I've actually seen it in person. I felt more for Michael -- what he was going through -- and wanted him to know it had nothing to do with him. He shouldn't be frustrated with the umpires or himself."

Bourn appreciated it:

Quote

"He helped me get through that first at-bat and go on for the rest of the game," Bourn said."

Andyzipp · « **Reply #10 on:** May 21, 2009, 08:18:18 am »

Quote from: Noe in Austin on May 21, 2009, 08:01:40 am

The camera caught his hand pointing to the card that Romero had on his hand and then his slamming it on the dugout rail when he realized it was the wrong card. You could see a profile of Coop a little after he slammed the card and he did not look happy. I'm not sure why he did not get involved more than that when the players in question (Bourn and Matsui) were being jostled by the umpires.

Cooper was sitting right next to Romero and neither of them made any attempt to move towards the field, or talk to the umps. I think the umpires came across as confrontational because none of the Astros coaches were making any attempt to straighten out the situation.

Plus, it always helps if you talk loudly and forcefully to a foreigner like Matsui.

toddthebod · « **Reply #11 on:** May 21, 2009, 08:43:16 am »

I thought you were talking about Kegel exercises.

Noe · « **Reply #12 on:** May 21, 2009, 08:45:05 am »

Quote from: Andyzipp on May 21, 2009, 08:18:18 am

Plus, it always helps if you talk loudly and forcefully to a foreigner like Matsui.

Yeah, I can imagine Mike Reily (the guy who was the most confrontational, but seemed to be having fun with it) saying something like this to Wandy if he were tossing him "You are out-o, amigo... take a hike-o!"

Fredia · « **Reply #13 on:** May 21, 2009, 09:07:16 am »

after the win last night maybe one of two things will happen
coop will finally be seen for the genius he is not
or do it again and see if the bb gods who oviously got pissed at the ups for acting like such dicks will grant the good guys another win

juliogotay · « **Reply #14 on:** May 21, 2009, 09:09:47 am »

I haven't seen Drayton at the last couple of games. I guess he's in Poland or something. More than anything else, Drayton values leadership in his managers. If he had been there last night he would have been very disappointed in Cooper I suspect. Cooper's explanation after the game was very defensive even though he ultimately accepted the blame. He only accepted the blame because he is ultimately responsible but he was trying to put the turd in other people's pocket. Ortiz' column, for once, was revealing. Coop out watching football players take BP while his team was looking for the lineup card.

Reuben · « **Reply #15 on:** May 21, 2009, 10:36:05 am »

Exactly. Coop "took responsibility" while simultaneously throwing his coaches under the bus a little, mentioning more than once "three or four guys are supposed to check it, nobody checked it." I admit I have no idea how the chain of command works with handing in the lineup card, but I would think that the manager has to ultimately be responsible, period.

Andyzipp · « **Reply #16 on:** May 21, 2009, 10:37:15 am »

Quote from: Reuben on May 21, 2009, 10:36:05 am

Exactly. Coop "took responsibility" while simultaneously throwing his coaches under the bus a little, mentioning more than once "three or four guys are supposed to check it, nobody checked it." I admit I have no idea how the chain of command works with handing in the lineup card, but I would think that the manager has to ultimately be responsible, period.

I liked the "I always check it everyday. Except for today." bit.

Limey · « **Reply #17 on:** May 21, 2009, 10:40:44 am »

Quote from: Andyzipp on May 21, 2009, 10:37:15 am

I liked the "I always check it everyday. Except for today." bit.

Coop is easing out of disappointment into dislike.

Duman · « **Reply #18 on:** May 21, 2009, 10:41:57 am »

And Blum's action and openness in his comments would seem to indicate he has lost the veterans.

Clark in Denver · « **Reply #19 on:** May 21, 2009, 10:44:17 am »

I don't see how any player could respect him when Footer tweets this:

Quote

I'm just glad Blum took charge of the situation and told Bourn what was going on, because Coop didn't move from his seat.

and this:

Quote

And yes, Blum explained the situation to Bourn. Coop and Romero were clearly not going to be proactive. Will get the lowdown later.

Andyzipp · « **Reply #20 on:** May 21, 2009, 10:45:32 am »

Quote from: Clark in Denver on May 21, 2009, 10:44:17 am

I don't see how any player could respect him when Footer tweets this:

I know it was just the camera angle, but it looked for all the world like he was hiding in the corner.

Gizzmonic · « **Reply #21 on:** May 21, 2009, 10:45:53 am »

Quote from: Duman on May 21, 2009, 10:41:57 am

And Blum's action and openness in his comments would seem to indicate he has lost the veterans.

Blum for player/manager?

Bench · « **Reply #22 on:** May 21, 2009, 10:47:42 am »

Quote from: Gizzmonic on May 21, 2009, 10:45:53 am

Blum for player/manager?

It can't be any worse.

Craig · « **Reply #23 on:** May 21, 2009, 10:50:01 am »

Quote from: Andyzipp on May 21, 2009, 10:45:32 am

I know it was just the camera angle, but it looked for all the world like he was hiding in the corner.

That's what I thought too. All I could see was Romero and someone hiding behind him, and eventually I figured out it was Coop. After it was all over they went to another camera angle and I could see Coop then, but during the whole discussion between the players and umps, all I could see was Romero looking sheepish and fleeting glimpses of Cooper hiding behind him.

Ron Brand · « **Reply #24 on:** May 21, 2009, 10:54:46 am »

I think he's toast unless something dramatically positive happens pretty soon. I don't think Art Howe is the guy, but why was he on the wrap-up show last night? That's the kind of not-so-subtle gaming that goes on when there is trouble in the front office.

Astroholic · « **Reply #25 on:** May 21, 2009, 10:59:08 am »

Quote from: Limey on May 21, 2009, 10:40:44 am

Coop is easing out of disappointment into dislike.

I would not say easing. It is faster than that.

Craig · « **Reply #26 on:** May 21, 2009, 10:59:18 am »

Quote from: Ron Brand on May 21, 2009, 10:54:46 am

I think he's toast unless something dramatically positive happens pretty soon. I don't think Art Howe is the guy, but why was he on the wrap-up show last night? That's the kind of not-so-subtle gaming that goes on when there is trouble in the front office.

Art Howe has been on the post-game show every night lately. I was wondering if it was his new gig because he's with Eschenfelder after every game now.

Gizzmonic · « **Reply #27 on:** May 21, 2009, 11:00:23 am »

Quote from: Ron Brand on May 21, 2009, 10:54:46 am

I think he's toast unless something dramatically positive happens pretty soon. I don't think Art Howe is the guy, but why was he on the wrap-up show last night? That's the kind of not-so-subtle gaming that goes on when there is trouble in the front office.

Isn't Art Howe usually on the wrap-up show? When Phil Garner is there on the wrap-up show, that's when things really start getting testy.

JimR · « **Reply #28 on:** May 21, 2009, 11:01:40 am »

Quote from: Gizzmonic on May 21, 2009, 11:00:23 am

Isn't Art Howe usually on the wrap-up show? When Phil Garner is there on the wrap-up show, that's when things really start getting testy.

yes. since last year after Neil ? died.

MRaup · « **Reply #29 on:** May 21, 2009, 11:02:49 am »

Quote from: Astroholic on May 21, 2009, 10:59:08 am

I would not say easing. It is faster than that.

Cooper has managed to wear through my patience entirely already. I'm sick of him. I'd rather let Lance Berkman run the team that Coop at this point.

Andyzipp · « **Reply #30 on:** May 21, 2009, 11:05:53 am »

Quote from: MRaup on May 21, 2009, 11:02:49 am

I'd rather let Lance Berkman run the team that Coop at this point.

Free sno-cones after every game!

Astroholic · « **Reply #31 on:** May 21, 2009, 11:06:41 am »

Quote from: MRaup on May 21, 2009, 11:02:49 am

Cooper has managed to wear through my patience entirely already. I'm sick of him. I'd rather let Lance Berkman run the team that Coop at this point.

Need to get the Boo birds started. Drayton are you listening to that.

Limey · « **Reply #32 on:** May 21, 2009, 11:07:39 am »

Quote from: Astroholic on May 21, 2009, 11:06:41 am

Need to get the Boo birds started. Drayton are you listening to that.

Tonight's game will be blessed with 4 TZers, front and centre...

Astroholic · « **Reply #33 on:** May 21, 2009, 11:09:06 am »

Quote from: Limey on May 21, 2009, 11:07:39 am

Tonight's game will be blessed with 4 TZers, front and centre...

Then you know what to do....besides showing your ass.

Bench · « **Reply #34 on:** May 21, 2009, 11:11:16 am »

Quote from: Astroholic on May 21, 2009, 11:06:41 am

Need to get the Boo birds started. Drayton are you listening to that.

I've never booed an Astro, but I came real close to booing Cooper last night. And that was before the first inning.

Tralfaz · « **Reply #35 on:** May 21, 2009, 11:12:32 am »

Curious about what JimR thinks about Jackie Moore taking over. The bridge to Ausmus?

MusicMan · « **Reply #36 on:** May 21, 2009, 11:13:03 am »

Quote from: Andyzipp on May 21, 2009, 11:05:53 am

Free sno-cones ~~after~~ during every game!

FIFY

Andyzipp · « **Reply #37 on:** May 21, 2009, 11:13:10 am »

Quote from: Tralfaz on May 21, 2009, 11:12:32 am

Curious about what JimR thinks about Jackie Moore taking over. The bridge to Ausmus?

Isn't Jackie Moore working for the Rangers?

Astroholic · « **Reply #38 on:** May 21, 2009, 11:14:27 am »

What is wrong with Howe? What makes you think Ausmus wants to live in Houston?

Andyzipp · « **Reply #39 on:** May 21, 2009, 11:19:23 am »

Quote from: Astroholic on May 21, 2009, 11:14:27 am

What is wrong with Howe? What makes you think Ausmus wants to live in Houston?

Ausmus is about 5 years away from managing, if that's what he wants to do. And if that's what he wants to do, Houston may be an attractive option for him.

Howe in my mind would be a short term option, if he would even agree to work for McLane again after he was hosed the first time.

juliogotay · « **Reply #40 on:** May 21, 2009, 11:46:21 am »

Quote from: Andyzipp on May 21, 2009, 11:19:23 am

Ausmus is about 5 years away from managing, if that's what he wants to do. And if that's what he wants to do, Houston may be an attractive option for him.

Howe in my mind would be a short term option, if he would even agree to work for McLane again after he was hosed the first time.

I've always liked Art Howe but I don't think McLane would go that direction again. Didn't he question his "leadership"?

Reuben · « **Reply #41 on:** May 21, 2009, 11:47:12 am »

Quote from: Gizzmonic on May 21, 2009, 10:45:53 am

Blum for player/manager?

You know what, Keppinger would probably get more starts at 3B in that scenario, sad to say.

Who was the last player/manager in the majors? Pete Rose?

juliogotay · « **Reply #42 on:** May 21, 2009, 11:49:29 am »

Quote from: Craig on May 21, 2009, 10:59:18 am

Art Howe has been on the post-game show every night lately. I was wondering if it was his new gig because he's with Eschenfelder after every game now.

There isn't anything to read into this. Howe is employed by Fox although I'm sure the club could nix it if they wanted. Howe alternates with Steve Sparks and Dave Harbison. BTW, who is Harbison? Local radio guy or something? He's not bad and the only one that will be the least bit critical. Former ballplayers and managers will not criticize.

Col. Sphinx Drummond · « **Reply #43 on:** May 21, 2009, 11:52:51 am »

Quote from: Noe in Austin on May 21, 2009, 08:45:05 am

Yeah, I can imagine Mike Reily (the guy who was the most confrontational, but seemed to be having fun with it) saying something like this to Wandy if he were tossing him "You are out-o, amigo... take a hike-o!"

"Ah so, sayanora, Matsui-san."

juliogotay · « **Reply #44 on:** May 21, 2009, 11:54:38 am »

Quote from: Astroholic on May 21, 2009, 11:14:27 am

What is wrong with Howe? What makes you think Ausmus wants to live in Houston?

Ausmus has a job and is in SoCal because he wants to be. IF he wants to manage someday I assume he would have to work his way up like most managers by putting in some time in the minor leagues.

Anyone know where Bogar is and if he is still considered ML managerial material?

Duman · « **Reply #45 on:** May 21, 2009, 11:58:20 am »

Tim Bogar for manager!

He managed Paulino & Towles in G'ville in 04 as well as Pence in Lexington in 05. He has won everywhere he has been a manager. He was with the Ray's coaching staff last year and is with the red sox as the 1st base coach this season.

juliogotay · « **Reply #46 on:** May 21, 2009, 12:07:40 pm »

Quote from: Duman on May 21, 2009, 11:58:20 am

Tim Bogar for manager!

He managed Paulino & Towles in G'ville in 04 as well as Pence in Lexington in 05. He has won everywhere he has been a manager. He was with the Ray's coaching staff last year and is with the red sox as the 1st base coach this season.

Thanks, Duman.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #47 on:** May 21, 2009, 12:17:39 pm »

Quote from: Reuben on May 21, 2009, 11:47:12 am

You know what, Keppinger would probably get more starts at 3B in that scenario, sad to say.

Who was the last player/manager in the majors? Pete Rose?

If we're gonna have a player-manager, I vote for Darin Erstad.

Rose was the last, but when the DBacks hired A J Hinch, I was wondering if he was. For some reason, he seems perpetually 25 years old to me.

pravata · « **Reply #48 on:** May 21, 2009, 12:18:41 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on May 21, 2009, 12:17:39 pm

If we're gonna have a player-manager, I vote for Darin Erstad.

Rose was the last, but when the DBacks hired A J Hinch, I was wondering if he was. For some reason, he seems perpetually 25 years old to me.

Geoff Blum was the de facto manager last night. At least when it counted.

sporadic · « **Reply #49 on:** May 21, 2009, 12:36:13 pm »

Quote from: pravata on May 21, 2009, 12:18:41 pm

Geoff Blum was the de facto manager last night. At least when it counted.

And, by all accounts, he did a great job...I guess one has to take matters in their own hands when there is not a real manager around.

Ron Brand · « **Reply #50 on:** May 21, 2009, 12:44:13 pm »

Quote from: Craig on May 21, 2009, 10:59:18 am

Art Howe has been on the post-game show every night lately. I was wondering if it was his new gig because he's with Eschenfelder after every game now.

My mistake - all I've seen recently is Harbison or that other guy or very occasionally Footer, but never Howe. Of course, I've had to make do with listening to the radio a lot lately too.

Bench · « **Reply #51 on:** May 21, 2009, 01:06:32 pm »

Quote from: Reuben on May 21, 2009, 11:47:12 am

You know what, Keppinger would probably get more starts at 3B in that scenario, sad to say.

Who was the last player/manager in the majors? Pete Rose?

Is Keppinger hurt again? I haven't seen him in a while.

By the way, I spoke briefly with his wife last night at the game. She's a sweetheart and is smoking hot. She much prefers living in Houston to Cincinatti.

Reuben · « **Reply #52 on:** May 21, 2009, 02:00:48 pm »

Quote from: Duman on May 21, 2009, 11:58:20 am

Tim Bogar for manager!

He managed Paulino & Towles in G'ville in 04 as well as Pence in Lexington in 05. He has won everywhere he has been a manager. He was with the Ray's coaching staff last year and is with the red sox as the 1st base coach this season.

I caught a bit of a Yankees-Red Sox game earlier this year... while the Red Sox were batting, the Yankees were objecting to something, I forget exactly what, and the camera showed Joe Girardi yelling at Bogar from the dugout. You could read Bogar's lips going "Fuck you, you fuckin' prick!" and I thought "good for you, Timmy!" Girardi does kinda seem like a prick.

Ty in Tampa · « **Reply #53 on:** May 21, 2009, 02:06:59 pm »

Quote from: Reuben on May 21, 2009, 02:00:48 pm

Girardi does kinda seem like a prick.

He was a Cub. Twice. Fuck him.

BatGirl · « **Reply #54 on:** May 21, 2009, 02:23:47 pm »

Quote from: Noe in Austin on May 21, 2009, 04:12:09 am

Players were in control of other players right there and Cooper was still trying to figure out with Romero what had just happened.

i read somewhere that cooper said he knew as soon as
macha stepped out of the dugout with his copy of the lineup
that there had been a mistake made...
only bringing it up because if that's true, then what
possible excuse could coop give for not speaking to his players?

Fredia · « **Reply #55 on:** May 21, 2009, 02:34:12 pm »

maybe he did not want to look stupid in the eyes of the media?

VirtualBob · « **Reply #56 on:** May 21, 2009, 02:35:49 pm »

Quote from: Fredia on May 21, 2009, 02:34:12 pm

maybe he did not want to look stupid in the eyes of the media?

too late for that!

Tralfaz · « **Reply #57 on:** May 21, 2009, 02:52:46 pm »

Quote from: BatGirl on May 21, 2009, 02:23:47 pm

i read somewhere that cooper said he knew as soon as
macha stepped out of the dugout with his copy of the lineup

I heard him say it during post game interview.

strosrays · « **Reply #58 on:** May 21, 2009, 03:02:40 pm »

Just speculating (a/k/a talking out my ass) like everyone else, but I remember when Jose Vizcaino left there was some talk that he'd be a manager some day, and mutual talk that maybe he'd end up back in the Houston organization. Anyone know where Viz is now, or what he's been doing since he retired, in 2006 I think?

Or, if it is someone with prior experience they want, what about former Astro Davey Lopes? He didn't do very well in Milwaukee, but he didn't have a lot to work with, either. Hiring him would continue the Brewer connection (Garner, Cooper, etc.) Drayton could still feel good about himself morally, and keep Selig off his ass. Plus, you are supposed to follow a manager with a, well, laconic style with a fiery, hands on guy, and Lopes is that.

Apropos of nothing, I've noticed no one ever brings up Dierker in these scenarios anymore.

Lurch · « **Reply #59 on:** May 21, 2009, 03:57:23 pm »

Quote from: strosrays on May 21, 2009, 03:02:40 pm

Apropos of nothing, I've noticed no one ever brings up Dierker in these scenarios anymore.

How was Dierker (as Skipper) viewed here? I always liked him on-air and as a manager, but must admit that was before my SnS awakening. If I recall, there was a clubhouse revolt against him, right?

Andyzipp · « **Reply #60 on:** May 21, 2009, 04:00:43 pm »

Quote from: Lurch on May 21, 2009, 03:57:23 pm

How was Dierker (as Skipper) viewed here? I always liked him on-air and as a manager, but must admit that was before my SnS awakening. If I recall, there was a clubhouse revolt against him, right?

General view is that he was a veteran's manager who did fine when he had a healthy veteran team, because he filled out the lineup card and let them play. He was unable or unwilling to make in game adjustments with bullpen or bench players, and it showed up in the playoffs.

JimR · « **Reply #61 on:** May 21, 2009, 04:13:53 pm »

Quote from: Lurch on May 21, 2009, 03:57:23 pm

How was Dierker (as Skipper) viewed here? I always liked him on-air and as a manager, but must admit that was before my SnS awakening. If I recall, there was a clubhouse revolt against him, right?

one person's view: http://www.spikesnstars.com/1999/10/19/larry-dierker-a-flawed-diamond/

hostros7 · « **Reply #62 on:** May 21, 2009, 06:40:22 pm »

Quote from: JimR on May 21, 2009, 04:13:53 pm

one person's view: http://www.spikesnstars.com/1999/10/19/larry-dierker-a-flawed-diamond/

Good read, I missed that when lurking in the "old days." You weren't quite as succinct back then.

JimR · « **Reply #63 on:** May 21, 2009, 07:12:39 pm »

Same ole me