Author Topic: Reds @ Astros - 4/19/09 (Read 6256 times)

homer · « **on:** April 19, 2009, 02:46:13 pm »

Brownie just commented that Volquez got Hunter to expand his zone in an earlier at bat.

I don't think Hunter even needs the slightest amount of help or suggestion to expand his zone.

Of course, as I write this, PENCE!!! draws a walk to load the bases.

0-1 Houston in the bottom of the fifth. Bases loaded, 1 out.

Anit · « **Reply #1 on:** April 19, 2009, 02:48:46 pm »

what an incredibly awful call that was

homer · « **Reply #2 on:** April 19, 2009, 02:49:30 pm »

Country Joe must have a heap of pigeon shit in his eyes because that tag was nowhere near Hunter.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #3 on:** April 19, 2009, 02:49:33 pm »

Quote from: Anit on April 19, 2009, 02:48:46 pm

what an incredibly awful call that was

But what an incredibly dumbshit play by Pence. He cost them a run there.

homer · « **Reply #4 on:** April 19, 2009, 02:50:30 pm »

Double play ends the inning, (phantom tag) 4-3.

0-1 Houston, Top 6

OregonStrosFan · « **Reply #5 on:** April 19, 2009, 02:53:25 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on April 19, 2009, 02:49:33 pm

But what an incredibly dumbshit play by Pence. He cost them a run there.

Not following you here.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #6 on:** April 19, 2009, 02:54:53 pm »

Quote from: OregonStrosFan on April 19, 2009, 02:53:25 pm

Not following you here.

Running into an unassisted putout on a double play is a dumbshit move. You force the throw to 2B.

MusicMan · « **Reply #7 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:06:01 pm »

little leaguers know to stop running on that play. spaz does not.

MusicMan · « **Reply #8 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:13:37 pm »

Q is one dumbass throw away from Miggy punching him in the face.

and now Geary throws it into RF. 1-1.

homer · « **Reply #9 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:14:11 pm »

Fucking piss poor.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #10 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:16:14 pm »

And a cookie to the PHer and just like that it's 3-1.

Shitfuck.

MusicMan · « **Reply #11 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:16:26 pm »

and a PH double by the pitcher.

this team's play is making me sick. zero baseball iq.

otterjb · « **Reply #12 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:17:00 pm »

Wow, Geary has been fucking awesome this inning. Shame, especially based on what Paulino did.

pots · « **Reply #13 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:19:05 pm »

19 shutout innings by the starters the last 3 games and they need to rally to not lose 2 of them. Yuck

MusicMan · « **Reply #14 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:19:09 pm »

geary is trying to prove the hunsicker theory of relievers.

MikeyBoy · « **Reply #15 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:21:14 pm »

After watching Paulino throw all day, Geary looks like he's throwing underhand. Paulino has some serious heat.

otterjb · « **Reply #16 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:22:44 pm »

Whew, doctor ordered double-play.

otterjb · « **Reply #17 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:23:58 pm »

Quote from: MikeyBoy on April 19, 2009, 03:21:14 pm

After watching Paulino throw all day, Geary looks like he's throwing underhand. Paulino has some serious heat.

Paulino was great. 97 mph heater.

matadorph · « **Reply #18 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:24:39 pm »

Fucking atrocious inning for pitching and defense.

On the other hand, the offense is stagnating again with MOB. Two chances today to get a cushion with the bases loaded and less than two outs and they come away with exactly zero runs.

matadorph · « **Reply #19 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:27:07 pm »

Bourn just hustles. Always.

Safe at first on a grounder.....to 1b.

Russe · « **Reply #20 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:28:46 pm »

How soon 'til Smith gets canned and Maysonet gets called up? He's been awful.

Savage · « **Reply #21 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:29:24 pm »

Quote from: matadorph on April 19, 2009, 03:27:07 pm

Bourn just hustles. Always.

Safe at first on a grounder.....to 1b.

He has been a really pleasant part of this team so far this season. Always plays hard. Seems to be actually thinking about what he's doing. I won't mind a losing team (as much) if everyone played like him...

matadorph · « **Reply #22 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:29:38 pm »

Quote from: MusicMan on April 19, 2009, 03:06:01 pm

little leaguers know to stop running on that play. spaz does not.

I thought it was a head-up-ass play in real time, but on further review I can't blame Hunter. He was easily past Phillips and in position to possibly break up an inning-ending gidp.

MusicMan · « **Reply #23 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:33:10 pm »

Sorry, no. Grounder to 2b in the baseline, you freeze and make him come tag you or make the throw. It's fundamental.

MusicMan · « **Reply #24 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:33:55 pm »

WHAT THE FUCK were you swinging at, Carlos?!?!?!

otterjb · « **Reply #25 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:35:23 pm »

Rhodes tried his best to pitch around Lee there in order to pitch to Pence instead, but Carlos wouldn't let him.

MikeyBoy · « **Reply #26 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:37:26 pm »

I haven't seen a replay but in person hunter looked like a dumbass.

MusicMan · « **Reply #27 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:39:58 pm »

Quote from: Russe on April 19, 2009, 03:28:46 pm

How soon 'til Smith gets canned and Maysonet gets called up? He's been awful.

I have to second this.

matadorph · « **Reply #28 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:43:37 pm »

Quote from: Russe on April 19, 2009, 03:28:46 pm

How soon 'til Smith gets canned and Maysonet gets called up? He's been awful.

More importantly, how soon 'til Matsui or Keppinger gets back so we don't have to see Jason Smith suck on a daily basis?

JimR · « **Reply #29 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:52:38 pm »

Pence was NOT past Philips. It was a typical Pence dumbass play

MusicMan · « **Reply #30 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:54:27 pm »

Quote from: matadorph on April 19, 2009, 03:43:37 pm

More importantly, how soon 'til Matsui or Keppinger gets back so we don't have to see Jason Smith suck on a daily basis?

Coop is hoping to have Kepp back by Tuesday. Which would help, since LA is going w/ 3 straight lefties.

BOT 8, 1st and 2nd w/ no out. Smith bunts runners up, 1 out for Michaels, PH for Q.

matadorph · « **Reply #31 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:55:00 pm »

Quote from: JimR on April 19, 2009, 03:52:38 pm

Pence was NOT past Philips. It was a typical Pence dumbass play

No, but he was close behind the ball on a grounder that wasn't well hit. The Phillips tag was not even close. Terrible, terrible call by Joe West.

otterjb · « **Reply #32 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:57:39 pm »

He shouldn't of been running, but he also wasn't out. It was a very bad call by Pence and by the Ump that was a couple of feet away.

Shit! Shitty luck on the liner by Michaels.

MusicMan · « **Reply #33 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:58:28 pm »

Quote from: matadorph on April 19, 2009, 03:55:00 pm

The Phillips tag was not even close. Terrible, terrible call by Joe West.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

MusicMan · « **Reply #34 on:** April 19, 2009, 04:01:01 pm »

The situational hitting on this team is embarrassing.

matadorph · « **Reply #35 on:** April 19, 2009, 04:02:42 pm »

Great shituational hitting today.

Jose Cruz III · « **Reply #36 on:** April 19, 2009, 04:03:17 pm »

Good grief. This is tough to watch.

otterjb · « **Reply #37 on:** April 19, 2009, 04:04:31 pm »

Frustrating shit.

matadorph · « **Reply #38 on:** April 19, 2009, 04:05:00 pm »

On the sunny side, Paulino's pitching made my afternoon. He was blowing it by Reds hitters.

Nice play Smith.

Jose Cruz III · « **Reply #39 on:** April 19, 2009, 04:05:18 pm »

Nice defensive play by Smith.

Jose Cruz III · « **Reply #40 on:** April 19, 2009, 04:07:24 pm »

Quote from: matadorph on April 19, 2009, 04:05:00 pm

On the sunny side, Paulino's pitching made my afternoon. He was blowing it by Reds hitters.

Nice play Smith.

Word. Paulino was smoking today. If he can do that consistently this year behind Oswalt and Wandy, not to mention Hampton until he gets hurt, our pitching should be fine. But sometimes it seems like Cooper is not even watching. The Stros should have scored in the 7th. Rhodes was throwing slow curves. Why wasn't Bourn running?.

otterjb · « **Reply #41 on:** April 19, 2009, 04:10:02 pm »

Quote from: matadorph on April 19, 2009, 04:05:00 pm

On the sunny side, Paulino's pitching made my afternoon. He was blowing it by Reds hitters.

If Paulino continues pitching like he was, if he can be somewhat consistent, it could be a season changer, imo. Young pitchers are usually the opposite of consistent though.

JCIII, jinx.

Jose Cruz III · « **Reply #42 on:** April 19, 2009, 04:11:52 pm »

Quote from: otterjb on April 19, 2009, 04:10:02 pm

If Paulino continues pitching like he was, if he can be somewhat consistent, it could be a season changer, imo. Young pitchers are usually the opposite of consistent though.

JCIII, jinx.

Which part was the jinx?

JimR · « **Reply #43 on:** April 19, 2009, 04:12:25 pm »

Whether West made a horrible call is irrelevant to Pence's baserunning.

Great AB by Michaels.

otterjb · « **Reply #44 on:** April 19, 2009, 04:15:22 pm »

Quote from: Jose Cruz III on April 19, 2009, 04:11:52 pm

Which part was the jinx?

Paulino and consistency.

matadorph · « **Reply #45 on:** April 19, 2009, 04:15:49 pm »

While we're all banging Pence for that play, even though it wasn't his fault that Joe West was struck temporarily blind and Blum couldn't deliver the big hit, the Dumbass Baserunner of the Day award goes to Miggy for missing first base early in the game on his RBI double.

He should've been standing on second when Berkman singled behind him.

Russe · « **Reply #46 on:** April 19, 2009, 04:20:28 pm »

Well, at least Berkman only k'd instead of GDIP'ing again. His bat can wake up any time now.

JimR · « **Reply #47 on:** April 19, 2009, 04:20:28 pm »

LL parent: "not your fault, Hunter. The ump blew it."

Russe · « **Reply #48 on:** April 19, 2009, 04:22:55 pm »

Spaz drew a walk with 2 out in the 9th the chance to tie it at the plate. Color me incredulous.

Jose Cruz III · « **Reply #49 on:** April 19, 2009, 04:24:12 pm »

Come on Kaz.

Jose Cruz III · « **Reply #50 on:** April 19, 2009, 04:25:11 pm »

If ever a team needed a big hit this team is it.

Jose Cruz III · « **Reply #51 on:** April 19, 2009, 04:26:03 pm »

Crap!!!!!!!!!! Maybe tomorrow.

matadorph · « **Reply #52 on:** April 19, 2009, 04:36:04 pm »

Quote from: JimR on April 19, 2009, 04:20:28 pm

LL parent: "not your fault, Hunter. The ump blew it."

Meanwhile, one of the veteran leaders made another baserunning error that likely cost the team a run. Epidemic of stupid on the basepaths.

Mr. Happy · « **Reply #53 on:** April 19, 2009, 04:41:41 pm »

Quote from: matadorph on April 19, 2009, 04:02:42 pm

Great shituational hitting today.

Nominated

JimR · « **Reply #54 on:** April 19, 2009, 06:30:04 pm »

Quote from: matadorph on April 19, 2009, 04:36:04 pm

Meanwhile, one of the veteran leaders made another baserunning error that likely cost the team a run. Epidemic of stupid on the basepaths.

the two are not the same. maybe you think so, but they are not.

matadorph · « **Reply #55 on:** April 19, 2009, 07:13:38 pm »

Quote from: JimR on April 19, 2009, 06:30:04 pm

the two are not the same. maybe you think so, but they are not.

Blum hit into a 4-6-3 dp with one out. Whether or not Pence stopped running or kept charging ahead, the inning was over because Blum would not have beaten the throw to first. HH was wrong. Pence did not cost the team a run.

On the other hand, Tejada hit one to the gap that plated Bourn, but he failed to touch first. Berkman singled immediately thereafter, and when he did Miggy slapped his hands together after stopping at second because he knew he fucked up.

Both players fucked up, but if anyone cost the team a run with a baserunning mistake today, it was Tejada.

JimR · « **Reply #56 on:** April 19, 2009, 07:40:03 pm »

You are quite nuts and obviously in love with Hunter. If Pence stopped, Phillips would have had to decide where to throw the ball. If he throws to second, Blum is safe at first. If he throws to first, Hunter is safe at second. Either way, they only get one out, and a run scores. On a slow hit ball like that, the only way they get two is tag and throw. Hunter, whose baseball IQ is zero, cost the team a run, and HH was, as always, correct .

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #57 on:** April 19, 2009, 07:56:31 pm »

Quote from: matadorph on April 19, 2009, 07:13:38 pm

Blum hit into a 4-6-3 dp with one out. Whether or not Pence stopped running or kept charging ahead, the inning was over because Blum would not have beaten the throw to first. HH was wrong. Pence did not cost the team a run.

No, Blum hit into a 4u-3 double play. As Coach says, if Pence stops, and forces a throw to either 1B or 2B, they only get one out and a run scores. He cost them a run and another AB with at least 1 runner in scoring position.

matadorph · « **Reply #58 on:** April 19, 2009, 08:08:30 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on April 19, 2009, 07:56:31 pm

No, Blum hit into a 4u-3 double play. As Coach says, if Pence stops, and forces a throw to either 1B or 2B, they only get one out and a run scores. He cost them a run and another AB with at least 1 runner in scoring position.

Wrong. I've watched it about fifteen times on dvr. Blum would've been out. He was probably three steps down the line about the time Phillips fielded the ball, but Phillips wasted time moving towards Pence to tag him. If Pence had stopped, Phillips makes the throw to Gonzalez. Maybe he makes a shitty throw, maybe Gonzalez drops it, but there is no doubt that they had time to nail Blum at first. Sorry, but Blum is not that fast.

matadorph · « **Reply #59 on:** April 19, 2009, 08:13:59 pm »

Quote from: JimR on April 19, 2009, 07:40:03 pm

You are quite nuts and obviously in love with Hunter. If Pence stopped, Phillips would have had to decide where to throw the ball. If he throws to second, Blum is safe at first. If he throws to first, Hunter is safe at second. Either way, they only get one out, and a run scores. On a slow hit ball like that, the only way they get two is tag and throw. Hunter, whose baseball IQ is zero, cost the team a run, and HH was, as always, correct .

Riiiiight. I am in obviously in love with Hunter because in this instance I cared less about his baserunning mistake (which, as it turned out, was all Joe West's mistake) than Tejada's brainfart rounding first base after cracking a double in the gap. Okay, whatever.

If anyone is less capable of being reasonably objective about Hunter Pence, it's certainly not me. You have a serious axe to grind with him.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #60 on:** April 19, 2009, 08:14:39 pm »

Quote from: matadorph on April 19, 2009, 08:08:30 pm

Wrong. I've watched it about fifteen times on dvr. Blum would've been out. He was probably three steps down the line about the time Phillips fielded the ball, but Phillips wasted time moving towards Pence to tag him. If Pence had stopped, Phillips makes the throw to Gonzalez. Maybe he makes a shitty throw, maybe Gonzalez drops it, but there is no doubt that they had time to nail Blum at first. Sorry, but Blum is not that fast.

1. If you DVR'd it and watched it 15 times and still haven't figured out that the SS wasn't involved in the play, there is no hope left for you.

2. Once Philips goes after Pence, the chance of a 4-6-3 double play goes out the window. They either get the out at 1B or the out at 2B, but not both.

3. Even if Blum falls down and they *do* record a 4-6-3 double play, it's still a dumbshit play by Pence. It's simple Baseball 101.

Noe · « **Reply #61 on:** April 19, 2009, 08:15:39 pm »

Quote from: matadorph on April 19, 2009, 08:08:30 pm

Wrong. I've watched it about fifteen times on dvr. Blum would've been out. He was probably three steps down the line about the time Phillips fielded the ball, but Phillips wasted time moving towards Pence to tag him. If Pence had stopped, Phillips makes the throw to Gonzalez. Maybe he makes a shitty throw, maybe Gonzalez drops it, but there is no doubt that they had time to nail Blum at first. Sorry, but Blum is not that fast.

Are you seriously suggesting that Hunter Pence has the forethought and incredible intelligence to think to himself:

"Geoff Blum is slow as molasses and thus I must not stop running as I've been taught over and over and over again because he won't unhitch that trailer and be out easily. So I must run like the wind and try to beat the throw and/or tag. I must force the play. I must outrun this play. To heck with what is expected of me. I know. I am sure. I am going to show the world how Jeff Bagwell of me to make a spectacular move by actually *not* doing what is expected. People will praise me. I can hear JD and Brownie now, telling the world how baseball smart it was of me to run so hard that I could actually out-run the play. My speed is impecable. I am "FLASH". I know more about baseball than people think! I will negate Geoff Blums deficiency and single-handedly save the day! Now... watch me RUN!!!"

I don't. I think it was more like this:

*crack* (ball is hit, Hunter hears the noise and says to self): "RUN! Wooooooo... aw shit!"

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #62 on:** April 19, 2009, 08:26:14 pm »

Quote from: Noe in Austin on April 19, 2009, 08:15:39 pm

Are you seriously suggesting that Hunter Pence has the forethought and incredible intelligence to think to himself:

"Geoff Blum is slow as molasses and thus I must not stop running as I've been taught over and over and over again because he won't unhitch that trailer and be out easily. So I must run like the wind and try to beat the throw and/or tag. I must force the play. I must outrun this play. To heck with what is expected of me. I know. I am sure. I am going to show the world how Jeff Bagwell of me to make a spectacular move by actually *not* doing what is expected. People will praise me. I can hear JD and Brownie now, telling the world how baseball smart it was of me to run so hard that I could actually out-run the play. My speed is impecable. I am "FLASH". I know more about baseball than people think! I will negate Geoff Blums deficiency and single-handedly save the day! Now... watch me RUN!!!"

I don't. I think it was more like this:

*crack* (ball is hit, Hunter hears the noise and says to self): "RUN! Wooooooo... aw shit!"

I can't believe someone is actually seriously arguing with this. With a runner on 3B and 1 out, a baserunner on 1B has but one task and one task only on a ball hit to the second baseman....do NOT run into a tag out, no matter what. That's his sole job in that situation. He's not trying to break up a double play, he's not supposed to get in anyone's way, he's not supposed to pick daisies. He's supposed to freeze and force the secondbaseman to make a throw one way or the other. That's it.

matadorph · « **Reply #63 on:** April 19, 2009, 08:26:48 pm »

Quote from: Noe in Austin on April 19, 2009, 08:15:39 pm

Are you seriously suggesting that Hunter Pence has the forethought and incredible intelligence to think to himself:

"Geoff Blum is slow as molasses and thus I must not stop running as I've been taught over and over and over again because he won't unhitch that trailer and be out easily. So I must run like the wind and try to beat the throw and/or tag. I must force the play. I must outrun this play. To heck with what is expected of me. I know. I am sure. I am going to show the world how Jeff Bagwell of me to make a spectacular move by actually *not* doing what is expected. People will praise me. I can hear JD and Brownie now, telling the world how baseball smart it was of me to run so hard that I could actually out-run the play. My speed is impecable. I am "FLASH". I know more about baseball than people think! I will negate Geoff Blums deficiency and single-handedly save the day! Now... watch me RUN!!!"

I don't. I think it was more like this:

*crack* (ball is hit, Hunter hears the noise and says to self): "RUN! Wooooooo... aw shit!"

I agree. Hunter plays like a dumbass often, but *today* his dumbassness was less costly than Miggy's baserunning or Geary's pitching or the lack of timely hitting.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #64 on:** April 19, 2009, 08:29:55 pm »

Quote from: matadorph on April 19, 2009, 08:26:48 pm

I agree. Hunter plays like a dumbass often, but *today* his dumbassness was less costly than Miggy's baserunning or Geary's pitching or the lack of timely hitting.

His dumbassness was AT LEAST as costly as Tejada's mistake. Furthermore, Tejada's mistake was physical, Pence's was mental. I have a lot more tolerance for physical errors that happen while playing the game than I do for mental ones that happen because you're not fucking paying attention.

MikeyBoy · « **Reply #65 on:** April 19, 2009, 08:35:13 pm »

Quote from: matadorph on April 19, 2009, 08:26:48 pm

I agree. Hunter plays like a dumbass often, but *today* his dumbassness was less costly than Miggy's baserunning or Geary's pitching or the lack of timely hitting.

I was at the game, so I didn't have the luxary of replay, but I thought Tejada stepped wrong and hurt himself and that's why he didn't advance to 2B? Even if Tejada makes it to second, it's not a given Lance gets a basehit, maybe they pitch him differently. What's a given is that Pence cost his team a run with a mental mistake.

matadorph · « **Reply #66 on:** April 19, 2009, 08:36:46 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on April 19, 2009, 08:14:39 pm

1. If you DVR'd it and watched it 15 times and still haven't figured out that the SS wasn't involved in the play, there is no hope left for you.

2. Once Philips goes after Pence, the chance of a 4-6-3 double play goes out the window. They either get the out at 1B or the out at 2B, but not both.

3. Even if Blum falls down and they *do* record a 4-6-3 double play, it's still a dumbshit play by Pence. It's simple Baseball 101.

1. Don't be obtuse. If Pence stops, the SS WOULD HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THE PLAY, and he would've zipped the throw to first in time to beat Blum.

2. Likewise, it's a dumbshit play by Tejada to miss first base on a fucking gapper with Lance fucking Berkman batting behind him. It's simple Baseball 101, but you'd rather talk about Pence's dumbass play when the end result was never really at issue. That was a 4-6-3 dp off Blum's bat. Pence just ran it into a 4u-3 dp. Either way the inning was over.

Noe · « **Reply #67 on:** April 19, 2009, 08:37:01 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on April 19, 2009, 08:26:14 pm

I can't believe someone is actually seriously arguing with this. With a runner on 3B and 1 out, a baserunner on 1B has but one task and one task only on a ball hit to the second baseman....do NOT run into a tag out, no matter what. That's his sole job in that situation. He's not trying to break up a double play, he's not supposed to get in anyone's way, he's not supposed to pick daisies. He's supposed to freeze and force the secondbaseman to make a throw one way or the other. That's it.

Eggszactly.

One has to ask themselves if it was not executed the way one is taught to play the game: What was he thinking! So the answer is... Pence isn't really thinking, he's reacting. That is what he does, reacts. And he then most of the time does very foolish things. He is the polar opposite of Bagwell. That Phillips missed the tag and Joe West is a blind man does not make it right, it only clouds the issue that is really a full season of what you'll get from Hunter.

Remember his rookie season when Hunter killed a rally by running from first base to third on a single... to LF! Cooper excused him by saying "He aggressive". No, actually, what you saw then and what you see now is a lack of really understanding what to do. However it seems to me no one wants to reign him in and yet most want him to run with the balls to wall abandon. That requires no thinking and a lot of reacting. And of course they will have to live with these types of outcomes in order to gain that one instance when it works and Hunter reacts his way into doing something that forces the game from the opponent.

You know what though, that is a major league team on the other side and unless they have a bunch of brain dead players, you won't win many of those situations. In fact, you will lose. But yes, you'll be aggressive! *sigh*

Noe · « **Reply #68 on:** April 19, 2009, 08:38:28 pm »

Quote from: matadorph on April 19, 2009, 08:26:48 pm

I agree. Hunter plays like a dumbass often, but *today* his dumbassness was less costly than Miggy's baserunning or Geary's pitching or the lack of timely hitting.

Oh, I see.

Miggy purposely missed the bag?
Geary purposely pitched bad?
The offense purposely hit lousy with RISP?

Just like Hunter purposely tried to out run a play.

Get the idea?

Noe · « **Reply #69 on:** April 19, 2009, 08:40:07 pm »

Quote from: matadorph on April 19, 2009, 08:36:46 pm

1. Don't be obtuse. If Pence stops, the SS WOULD HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THE PLAY, and he would've zipped the throw to first in time to beat Blum.

2. Likewise, it's a dumbshit play by Tejada to miss first base on a fucking gapper with Lance fucking Berkman batting behind him. It's simple Baseball 101, but you'd rather talk about Pence's dumbass play when the end result was never really at issue. That was a 4-6-3 dp off Blum's bat. Pence just ran it into a 4u-3 dp. Either way the inning was over.

Geoff Blum would have to be slower than Carlos Lee to be caught in a DP when you have to execute all those things. Just saying.

MikeyBoy · « **Reply #70 on:** April 19, 2009, 08:40:23 pm »

Also, Pudge came off the bench cold to bat in the bottom of the 8th, but he was absolutely blown away by 88 mph fastballs.

matadorph · « **Reply #71 on:** April 19, 2009, 08:43:18 pm »

Quote from: MikeyBoy on April 19, 2009, 08:35:13 pm

I was at the game, so I didn't have the luxary of replay, but I thought Tejada stepped wrong and hurt himself and that's why he didn't advance to 2B? Even if Tejada makes it to second, it's not a given Lance gets a basehit, maybe they pitch him differently. What's a given is that Pence cost his team a run with a mental mistake.

No, Tejada was fine. He just missed the bag and then reacted as if he'd tweaked something, when he probably was just tweaking himself for making that mistake. Did you notice his reaction after Berkman singled? I wonder what he was thinking?

Noe · « **Reply #72 on:** April 19, 2009, 08:44:38 pm »

Quote from: MikeyBoy on April 19, 2009, 08:40:23 pm

Also, Pudge came off the bench cold to bat in the bottom of the 8th, but he was absolutely blown away by 88 mph fastballs.

Weathers threw him a high fastball that was begging to be hit hard. Pudge swung at the pitch like it was 98 mph fastball instead of the mid-80s variety that he got. He was toast after that with Weathers throwing slider after slider. Show the fastball and then the slider, major league pitching right there. But Pudge did get one to hit. He just missed it.

Noe · « **Reply #73 on:** April 19, 2009, 08:47:34 pm »

Quote from: matadorph on April 19, 2009, 08:43:18 pm

No, Tejada was fine. He just missed the bag and then reacted as if he'd tweaked something, when he probably was just tweaking himself for making that mistake. Did you notice his reaction after Berkman singled? I wonder what he was thinking?

"I've rounded first base 1,000 times and never miss it and today I miss it. Darnit!" They're not robots out there, but you do expect them to have the mental aspect of how to play the game not interfere. Physical mistakes, fine. Mental? Most will tell you that it is inexcuseable. Unless, of course, you want to say "that's being aggressive!" to cover for it.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #74 on:** April 19, 2009, 08:55:58 pm »

Quote from: matadorph on April 19, 2009, 08:36:46 pm

1. Don't be obtuse. If Pence stops, the SS WOULD HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THE PLAY, and he would've zipped the throw to first in time to beat Blum.

You said Blum hit into a 4-6-3 double play. Do you know what the assigned numbers in scoring mean?

If Pence stops, there is no way they complete a 4-6-3 double play unless Blum falls down. And even if they did, Pence was a dumbass for making it easy for him. And even if Philips had immediately turned to 2B to make a throw and not run after him, Pence STILL should have stopped. Pence simply had his head up his ass. There is no other way to spin it, try as you might.

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2. Likewise, it's a dumbshit play by Tejada to miss first base on a fucking gapper with Lance fucking Berkman batting behind him. It's simple Baseball 101,

Missing the bag rounding a base is a physical error, kind of like booting a routine ground ball. Or are you now gonna argue that's a mental mistake too because a fielder should know he's supposed to not make an error?

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but you'd rather talk about Pence's dumbass play when the end result was never really at issue. That was a 4-6-3 dp off Blum's bat. Pence just ran it into a 4u-3 dp. Either way the inning was over.

I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not just this stupid, that you've got some personal reason for wanting to absolve Pence's dumbassness. But as Crash Davis would say, this is hopeless. Utterly. Fucking. Hopeless.

JimR · « **Reply #75 on:** April 19, 2009, 08:57:57 pm »

Matadorph, seriously. Nothing says "I never played" like your arguments in this thread. You are embarrassing yourself on a board where many know how baseball is played. One NEVER runs into a tag in that situation. Seriously, stop and regroup tomorrow.

matadorph · « **Reply #76 on:** April 19, 2009, 09:42:35 pm »

Quote from: JimR on April 19, 2009, 08:57:57 pm

Matadorph, seriously. Nothing says "I never played" like your arguments in this thread. You are embarrassing yourself on a board where many know how baseball is played. One NEVER runs into a tag in that situation. Seriously, stop and regroup tomorrow.

It's a given that Hunter's head is always up his ass. My point was not that Hunter made the right decision but that on the grand scale of fail today, that one play was less noteworthy IMO than Tejada missing first base or the horrible defense or the impotent offense with men on base. You guys are bitching about Hunter's thick skull. Fine. I agree. I think we all agree. Just don't accuse me of being a Hunter fanboy when I am simply less interested *today* in belaboring an obvious and persistent point about Pence's obstinate baseball ways. Paulino pitched his ass off, the defense looked terrible, and the bats could not deliver with men on base (again), and we're arguing about whether or not Pence cost the Astros one run.

Noe · « **Reply #77 on:** April 19, 2009, 10:54:04 pm »

Quote from: matadorph on April 19, 2009, 09:42:35 pm

It's a given that Hunter's head is always up his ass. My point was not that Hunter made the right decision but that on the grand scale of fail today, that one play was less noteworthy IMO than Tejada missing first base or the horrible defense or the impotent offense with men on base. You guys are bitching about Hunter's thick skull. Fine. I agree. I think we all agree. Just don't accuse me of being a Hunter fanboy when I am simply less interested *today* in belaboring an obvious and persistent point about Pence's obstinate baseball ways. Paulino pitched his ass off, the defense looked terrible, and the bats could not deliver with men on base (again), and we're arguing about whether or not Pence cost the Astros one run.

The scale is mental versus physical and it tilts very heavily towards the mental side. Now, do you need to know why?

matadorph · « **Reply #78 on:** April 20, 2009, 03:28:01 am »

Quote from: Noe in Austin on April 19, 2009, 08:47:34 pm

"I've rounded first base 1,000 times and never miss it and today I miss it. Darnit!" They're not robots out there, but you do expect them to have the mental aspect of how to play the game not interfere. Physical mistakes, fine. Mental? Most will tell you that it is inexcuseable.

Sure, but staring at a gapper all the way down the line without once looking down to pick up first base is not a physical mistake. I'm not gonna crucify Tejada for it, but call it what it is. It was a brainfart, not busted footwork. He got caught gawking. It happens.