HanRam demands trade, stylist, and jewels

[Bench]

I guess you are what you wear.

"It was a hairy situation in the Marlins' dressing room yesterday after Hanley Ramirez threw a fit, scrawled a vulgar message on his chest and requested a trade over the team's new dress code."

[Gizzmonic]

As childish as that outburst seems to be, I don't understand why there are team-specific dress codes in this day and age.  If I were a player, I'd move to squelch that in the next collective bargaining agreement.

[Filo]

The Yankees are even worse.  You can't even turn on a stereo in the clubhouse without getting slapped with a big fine.

[HudsonHawk]

As childish as that outburst seems to be, I don't understand why there are team-specific dress codes in this day and age.  If I were a player, I'd move to squelch that in the next collective bargaining agreement.

Are there not dress codes where you work?  Can you come to work in your undershorts and bunny slippers?

[JimR]

As childish as that outburst seems to be, I don't understand why there are team-specific dress codes in this day and age.  If I were a player, I'd move to squelch that in the next collective bargaining agreement.

because the employees' boss wants one. if i were your manager, i'd tell you where to stick it.

[MusicMan]

Player has hissy fit, gets over it same day.

That this is "news" tells you all you need to know about the era we live in.

[austro]

That this is "news" tells you all you need to know about the era we live in.

It's easier to understand than issues of real substance. Plus, it can be explained in a convenient 30-second video clip.

[Noe]

Are there not dress codes where you work?  Can you come to work in your undershorts and bunny slippers?

[raises hand, been doing that a lot]

No dress code, but nobody has come in with shorts and bunny slippers.

Yet.
[puts hand down]

[Gizzmonic]

Are there not dress codes where you work?  Can you come to work in your undershorts and bunny slippers?

The only dress codes we have are practical ones.  Like, you have to wear a lab coat when you're dealing with chemicals.  I don't think Ramirez' corn rows are going to affect his batting average.

[Deja Vu]

Excuse me, TT, but HanRam has a very strict dress code at work: a uniform he must wear, head to shoes.

[HudsonHawk]

The only dress codes we have are practical ones.  Like, you have to wear a lab coat when you're dealing with chemicals.  I don't think Ramirez' corn rows are going to affect his batting average.

So you feel employers should only be allowed to implement dress codes for safety reasons?  That employees should be allowed to dress however they want otherwise?

[Arky Vaughan]

The only dress codes we have are practical ones.  Like, you have to wear a lab coat when you're dealing with chemicals.  I don't think Ramirez' corn rows are going to affect his batting average.

I could do my job wearing a tuxedo, a spacesuit or nothing at all, but if I showed up at the office wearing something that's not business casual or a suit, I'd be told to straighten up or find somewhere else to work.

[HudsonHawk]

I could do my job wearing a tuxedo, a spacesuit or nothing at all, but if I showed up at the office wearing something that's not business casual or a suit, I'd be told to straighten up or find somewhere else to work.

Apparently it's ridiculous in this day and age that your employer has the right to tell you how you can dress at work.

[Gizzmonic]

So you feel employers should only be allowed to implement dress codes for safety reasons?  That employees should be allowed to dress however they want otherwise?

You're getting way too broad.  You asked me if I had a dress code at my work, and I answered to the best of my abilities.  Now you're extrapolating like crazy.

As for baseball players, I don't think they should be forced to cut their hair so long as they can wear the uniform properly.  Do I think a dress code for players should be illegal?  No, I just think it's capricious and silly.  If I were a player, I'd try to get the union to relax dress codes so that stuff like hair length and facial hair would not be regulated.

[HudsonHawk]

You're getting way too broad.  You asked me if I had a dress code at my work, and I answered to the best of my abilities.  Now you're extrapolating like crazy.

You said you thought it was silly that an employer could implement a dress code for their employees.  You're crawfishing now.

[Gizzmonic]

You said you thought it was silly that an employer could implement a dress code for their employees.  You're crawfishing now.

No.  You said that...based upon a very broad (and incorrect) interpretation of what I said.  And now your own poor interpretation has got you bristlin' hot!  Personally, I think it's silly have little outbursts like that, but I don't think it should be illegal.

[Uncle Charlie]

We just moved offices.  Hanley's outburst is nothing.  You should hear our some of the people talking about not being "respected."  Un-freaking-believable.   Shut up, do your job, and be glad that you're getting paid what you are right now.

[Filo]

While an employer has every right in the world to impose a dress code on its employees, governing hair length and jewelry in MLB is petty to say the least.  This isn't a corporate 9-5 job which requires you to wear a tie and collared shirt, it's baseball.  It's ok for Hanley's uniform to be covered from head to toe in dirt from sliding into second, but him having dreadlocks or a necklace isn't "clean-cut"?  The Marlins can do whatever they want yes but this seems over the top.

[HudsonHawk]

No.  You said that...based upon a very broad (and incorrect) interpretation of what I said.  And now your own poor interpretation has got you bristlin' hot!  Personally, I think it's silly have little outbursts like that, but I don't think it should be illegal.

Bristling hot?  I'm pointing out your incosistent logic.  And no one said anythign about illegal.  The question is whether or not employers have the right to impose a dress code.  You said you didn't think so, even going so far as to suggest that the union should make it a condition of collective bargaining.  I'm simply pointing out that almost all employers have a dress code. 

[HudsonHawk]

While an employer has every right in the world to impose a dress code on its employees, governing hair length and jewelry in MLB is petty to say the least.  This isn't a corporate 9-5 job which requires you to wear a tie and collared shirt, it's baseball.  It's ok for Hanley's uniform to be covered from head to toe in dirt from sliding into second, but him having dreadlocks or a necklace isn't "clean-cut"?  The Marlins can do whatever they want yes but this seems over the top.

First, these types of dress codes have long been the norm in MLB.  Secondly, I applaud the Marlins.  There's a difference between dirt on your uniform and wearing your uniform like a gangster. 

[jonbloozy]

First, these types of dress codes have long been the norm in MLB.  Secondly, I applaud the Marlins.  There's a difference between dirt on your uniform and wearing your uniform like a gangster. 

I totally agree.  Some of the necklaces I've seen are way too flashy.  And I think dreads should be allowed, but the other team should be allowed to pull you down by your hair as you're running the bases (like the NFL). 

Who was it I saw the other day vs. the Astros (Molina, maybe?) kissing the medallion on his necklace twice before each swing?  At one point, the pitcher, catcher and ump were all ready, but had to wait on the batter because he couldn't quite grab the necklace to kiss it first.  Ridiculous.

[austro]

There used to be some prohibition against necklaces on pitchers ("distracted the batter" was the rationale), but that has apparently been rescinded. When did that change? (A long time ago, I realize, but was it some official decree, or did hitters just stop complaining about it?)

[Filo]

First, these types of dress codes have long been the norm in MLB.

Agreed.

There's a difference between dirt on your uniform and wearing your uniform like a gangster. 

The Marlins have a template for the way they want their players to look and act, so do the Yankees, so do all MLB teams, even the ones without dress codes.  Nothing wrong with that.  But use common sense.  Prohibiting Hanley and other Marlins from having dreds and wearing necklaces isn't the difference between a player having a 10-15 year successful baseball career for your organization and embracing a 'gangster' lifestyle that could keep him from having that baseball career. Just my opinion.

[HudsonHawk]

Agreed.


The Marlins have a template for the way they want their players to look and act, so do the Yankees, so do all MLB teams, even the ones without dress codes.  Nothing wrong with that.  But use common sense.  Prohibiting Hanley and other Marlins from having dreds and wearing necklaces isn't the difference between a player having a 10-15 year successful baseball career for your organization and embracing a 'gangster' lifestyle that could keep him from having that baseball career. Just my opinion.

No one suggested a dress code would make him  better ballplayer.  That's a completely silly thought.  It's about how a company wants it employees to look when they're on the job and out in public. 

[JimR]

Agreed.


The Marlins have a template for the way they want their players to look and act, so do the Yankees, so do all MLB teams, even the ones without dress codes.  Nothing wrong with that.  But use common sense.  Prohibiting Hanley and other Marlins from having dreds and wearing necklaces isn't the difference between a player having a 10-15 year successful baseball career for your organization and embracing a 'gangster' lifestyle that could keep him from having that baseball career. Just my opinion.

common sense? who judges that? an employer can and should tell its employees how it wants them to present themselves to the public. all those employees who still are in the stage of teenage rebellion can work somewhere else.

[MRaup]

Yeah, it's not like they're paying him millions of dollars to play baseball ei... what? Oh.

[Filo]

No one suggested a dress code would make him  better ballplayer.  That's a completely silly thought. 

Also agreed. That wasn't my insinuation. Go back and read the last part.  "Preventing him from having that baseball career" would be jail not a lack of talent.

[Noe]

Employers who have people who are customer facing can and should project whatever business professionalism they think is appropriate.  That means dress code and also speech guideline (see, they wouldn't allow the type of language allowed in here).  Within the parameters of their own internal enterprise, the dress code and speech is regulated as an employer sees fit for a professional behavior they desire, above and beyond what are considered HR norms (hate speech, racial slurs, libelous commentary, sexual harassment, et. al.).  Then there is business decisions where there are accepted relaxation of professional norms (at least those seen from days of yore).  That is how we got business casual Friday and now, that is not even the exception but the norm in some places where customer facing (external) is not common at the home office (travel to the customer site is different).  Nor is peer-to-peer professionalism defined by business attire... performance of one's job is what defines the professionalism.

It is commonplace and accepted and more and more companies are going to go to this sort of enterprise-wide acceptance.  Now, even the acceptance of home office workplace is common and there is no dress code there.  In fact, when some are summoned to make the trek to the office from a "working from home" day because an emergency or presence of said individual is necessary, the common thing to see is the person's casual attire is coming right along with the person.  I've seen bermuda shorts and t-shirts in these sort of last minute meetings and while the dress code is generally known as business casual, it is anything but and rarely enforced amongst the peer-to-peer interaction.  And nobody cares.

So Hanley Ramirez does not understand that the Marlins wish a certain projection of professionalism because there is quite a bit of customer facing for these guys (re: fans, who ironically are probably dressed in anything but a professional manner, heck some even wear Puma outfits... but I digress).  So he needs to pick the battle correctly with his management, because this one is not the one he wants to fight.  Perhaps the Marlins should also tell their players that scratching, spitting and cursing while on the field is also prohibited.  Maybe not, who knows nowadays.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

MLB is really inconsistent on dress because (seemingly) each team sets the guidelines for its employees. Therein lies the problem. Young Hanley sees other players getting to do what he can't and shows his ass because he has lost sight of the bigger picture, and only sees the inconsistencies across the league, and spews like some kind of l'enfant terrible, "eet's not fair."  But he's an artisan, not an artist.

His employer's dress code is quashing how he desires to express his individuality. He didn't have to act like a shithead in the locker room. He could have had a meeting with his agent and the GM, and advised them how important it was for him to affect a certain look, as it were. He could have emphasized its importance by requesting a trade and advising them he would leave the team via free agency at first opportunity, if a trade were not forthcoming.

He could have informed them that his hair and jewelry are of greater value to him than his team and he'd rather be on a team that didn't care about how he represented the franchise. He could have explained that as good as it is being a pro ballplayer in Miami, the greater reward is looking bitchin' cool, man.

[SaltyParker]

There used to be some prohibition against necklaces on pitchers ("distracted the batter" was the rationale), but that has apparently been rescinded. When did that change? (A long time ago, I realize, but was it some official decree, or did hitters just stop complaining about it?)

I was wondering the same thing. Maybe just no one complains about it. Historically I think I remember it being enforced when the other team complained.

[Gizzmonic]

Bristling hot?  I'm pointing out your incosistent logic.  And no one said anythign about illegal.  The question is whether or not employers have the right to impose a dress code.  You said you didn't think so, even going so far as to suggest that the union should make it a condition of collective bargaining.  I'm simply pointing out that almost all employers have a dress code. 

Nope...I never said all employers. You're the one that put that in.   I simply said that if I were a baseball player, I'd push to prohibit team specific dress codes in the next CBI.  I wouldn't want to be told, "Hey, you on the Florida Marlins-shave off your beard. Our shithead owner thinks we need to class up the team.  If you look too scruffy, it won't make a good impression on the aldermen we're hoping to bribe into paying for our new stadium."

[Limey]

Employers who have people who are customer facing can and should project whatever business professionalism they think is appropriate.  That means dress code and also speech guideline (see, they wouldn't allow the type of language allowed in here). 

Well fuck that shit.

[Billy Zabka]

Apparently it's ridiculous in this day and age that your employer has the right to tell you how you can dress at work.

It's Noon here, and I am sober.

That never would have flied in the 50s.

[kevinG]

Of course employers have the right to, and probably should, institute some kind of dress code and even facial hair/haircut policy. But it's not like Hanley's dreads were out of control.

But then again, a "no dreads allowed" policy is a lot more clear-cut, rather than having to split hairs over things like dread length in order to prevent something horrendous. And Hanley reacted in a very childish way.