Arod tested positive for steroids in 2003

[matadorph]

I'd like to know the hundred other names that appeared on that list. Pujols anyone?

Link

[Fredia]

will this really change the face of baseball. and do people care about the beauty of the game and not the fact someone can  knock a ball into the next county. look back over the years and see how the game and the look of the players has changed. just compare how clemens looked when he came into the game and how he looks now. its like comparing little dennis the menace to Frankenstein

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

"When asked if there was an explanation for his positive test, he said, 'I'm not saying anything.'"

So Alex has decided to skip a semester at the Roger Clemons School of Drama and Denial.  Fookin' tool.

[Limey]

In 2003, when he won the American League home run title and the AL Most Valuable Player award as a shortstop for the Texas Rangers, Alex Rodriguez tested positive for two anabolic steroids, four sources have independently told Sports Illustrated.

That sound you hear is Ster-Rod's HoF lock crumbling to dust.  It's nice when a person actually gives one proper justification for an irrational hatred.

PS  I know one name I really hope isn't one of the other 103.

[MusicMan]

A-Roid.

[matadorph]

PS  I know one name I really hope isn't one of the other 103.

MoBerg or AE?

[Limey]

MoBerg or AE?

Bogar.

[HurricaneDavid]

Out of curiosity, I went back to the infamous fake list from December '07 that claimed to be names listed in the Mitchell Report.  There were 75 names in the list.  ARod was not on it.

[TheWizard]

I'll put on my tights and play the role of Captain Obvious.  It couldn't have happened to a better guy.  But definitely not good for baseball..

[pravata]

They're real happy in New York, one writer puts it

Nine (more) years, (on his contract) and now, it appears, without the authentic historic payoff that Hank Steinbrenner and the Yankees were so seduced by, they couldn’t wait to sign A-Rod to a deal that would carry him well past his 40th birthday and could cost them $300 million.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/08/sports/baseball/08sotaraton.html?ref=baseball

“His legacy, now, is gone,” one Yankees official said of Rodriguez, speaking on condition of anonymity because the organization had no public comment. “He’ll just play it out. Now he’s a worker. Do your job, collect your paycheck and when you’re finished playing, go away. That’s what it is.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/08/sports/baseball/08kepner.html?ref=baseball

[UpTooLate]

I don't condone steroid use, but I do understand the pressure that a young professional player would feel to gain any advantage in breaking into the big leagues and making a name for himself.  That said, who is more to blame for the current mess?

MLB for burying their heads in the sand as long as the fans were happy?

or

Players Union for surrounding the wagons and covering shit they know is inexcusable?  I am very bothered by their attempts to litigate and have the names of all the players on the list concealed.  Why not just put it out there and let each player speak for himself?

At what point are we going to be able to say that the game has been cleansed and all is well?

ETA:  Caught this video link on MLB in which A-Roid flat out denies ever taking ANY enhancement products or steroids.  It appears he did attend a semester or two of DQ's Drama & Denial classes.

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200902073807022

[Limey]

They're real happy in New York, one writer puts it

Nine (more) years, (on his contract) and now, it appears, without the authentic historic payoff that Hank Steinbrenner and the Yankees were so seduced by, they couldn’t wait to sign A-Rod to a deal that would carry him well past his 40th birthday and could cost them $300 million.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/08/sports/baseball/08sotaraton.html?ref=baseball

“His legacy, now, is gone,” one Yankees official said of Rodriguez, speaking on condition of anonymity because the organization had no public comment. “He’ll just play it out. Now he’s a worker. Do your job, collect your paycheck and when you’re finished playing, go away. That’s what it is.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/08/sports/baseball/08kepner.html?ref=baseball

If there was a HoF for collecting paychecks, he'd be a lock.

[JimR]

I don't condone steroid use, but I do understand the pressure that a young professional player would feel to gain any advantage in breaking into the big leagues and making a name for himself. 

horse. shit.

[pravata]

... making a name for himself. 

A-Fraud, that's a name.

[Arky Vaughan]

horse. shit.

It's like saying, "I don't condone robbing banks, but I do understand the pressure someone feels to want money to buy stuff he couldn't otherwise afford."

[Gizzmonic]

It's like saying, "I don't condone robbing banks, but I do understand the pressure someone feels to want money to buy stuff he couldn't otherwise afford."

If a large proportion of people in your profession were robbing banks, it was very difficult to get caught, and robbing banks didn't have any scrotal-shrinking side effects, you'd probably at least consider it, wouldn't you? 

Of course, I would be there to stop you in the name of justice, but that is irrelevant to this thought exercise.

[MusicMan]

If a large proportion of people in your profession were robbing banks, it was very difficult to get caught, and robbing banks didn't have any scrotal-shrinking side effects, you'd probably at least consider it, wouldn't you? 

Some of us have these things called morals and consciences.

[TheWizard]

I certainly don't agree with it, and I never came remotely close to being good enough to being a pro ballplayer, but I can also at least see where some young kids that juice are coming from. 

Doesn't make it right though, obviously.

[Gizzmonic]

Some of us have these things called morals and consciences.

You'll never get a key to the executive washroom with that attitude, young man!

[BudGirl]

You'll never get a key to the executive washroom with that attitude, young man!

If he did, they'd probably just want him to clean it.

[UpTooLate]

horse. shit.

I said that I understood the pressure, not that I approved of the action.  It's the same pressure that causes students to cheat in medical school, law school, etc.  In an ultra competitive environment, when somebody offers a slight advantage, some will consider it based on their aspirations and identity being wrapped around that dream.  Get caught and you pay the price.

Coach, I respect that you've mentored young players and seen potential careers destroyed by illegal drugs/steroids per statements you've made in the past.

My greater concern is when/how will the game of pro baseball finally be cleansed to a reasonable degree and the achievement of players be legitimate or not questioned as suspect?

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

A-Rod has just 'fessed up to Peter Gammons. He's taking the Pettite route, which is pretty much the best thing that he could've done under the circumstances, besides building a time machine and traveling back to 2001 to slap his past self around.

[BatGirl]

something, something, pumpkin eater
is all that comes to mind with his name now

if i were in a position to see him play this year
i would be tempted not to withhold the catcalling

[JimR]

I said that I understood the pressure, not that I approved of the action.  It's the same pressure that causes students to cheat in medical school, law school, etc. 

horse. shit. 2.

[HudsonHawk]

I said that I understood the pressure, not that I approved of the action.  It's the same pressure that causes students to cheat in medical school, law school, etc.

Having the motivation and opportunity does not absolve the action in any way.  I don't know if I ever told it around here, but if prodded, I'll tell my story about declining to cheat on a paleontology exam.

[Arky Vaughan]

I said that I understood the pressure, not that I approved of the action.  It's the same pressure that causes students to cheat in medical school, law school, etc.  In an ultra competitive environment, when somebody offers a slight advantage, some will consider it based on their aspirations and identity being wrapped around that dream.  Get caught and you pay the price.

But there are large numbers of medical and law students who reside in the same ultra-competitive environment who aren't tempted to take that slight advantage, whatever their aspirations or identity. How come they aren't susceptible to the same pressure despite facing the same circumstances?

[Arky Vaughan]

Having the motivation and opportunity does not absolve the action in any way.  I don't know if I ever told it around here, but if prodded, I'll tell my story about declining to cheat on a paleontology exam.

Wasn't this the subject of an after-school special broadcast by ABC in 1986?

[Duman]

But there are large numbers of medical and law students who reside in the same ultra-competitive environment who aren't tempted to take that slight advantage, whatever their aspirations or identity. How come they aren't susceptible to the same pressure despite facing the same circumstances?

there is a known price among medical and law students (and others) called an honor code/academic honesty policy.  That clearly lays out what will happen if you take the risk.  There was no known price during the steroid years.  So I don't think you can compare the to. 

As it turns out, the cost of using has been quite high for some and quite low for others.  All on how they dealt with it.  Looks like A-Rod is trying to go the way that has had the least cost associated with it.

[Arky Vaughan]

there is a known price among medical and law students (and others) called an honor code/academic honesty policy.  That clearly lays out what will happen if you take the risk.  There was no known price during the steroid years.  So I don't think you can compare the to. 

As it turns out, the cost of using has been quite high for some and quite low for others.  All on how they dealt with it.  Looks like A-Rod is trying to go the way that has had the least cost associated with it.

I don't think the threat of sanction alone explains it. If that were the case, then usage in baseball would've been that much higher during the time when the cost was minimal.

[JaneDoe]

Having the motivation and opportunity does not absolve the action in any way.  I don't know if I ever told it around here, but if prodded, I'll tell my story about declining to cheat on a paleontology exam.

Will this work?

[Duman]

I don't think the threat of sanction alone explains it. If that were the case, then usage in baseball would've been that much higher during the time when the cost was minimal.

I don't think if the threat of sanctioned were removed, all law students/med students would cheat either.  But it reduces those who would try.  Just like now having sanctions for PED's doesn't do away with all who will still try to get away with it.  But it has reduced it (or so we are told).

I don't think it is the only factor but it is a factor that prevents it from being an apple v. apple comparison.

[HudsonHawk]

Wasn't this the subject of an after-school special broadcast by ABC in 1986?

Yes, it aired the week between "I Was A Teenage Streetwalker" and "Masturbation and You:  What Every Young Man Needs To Know".

[Duman]

Yes, it aired the week between "I Was A Teenage Streetwalker" and "Masturbation and You:  What Every Young Man Needs To Know".

I think I saw one of those.

[Lurch]

A-Rod has just 'fessed up to Peter Gammons. He's taking the Pettite route, which is pretty much the best thing that he could've done under the circumstances, besides building a time machine and traveling back to 2001 to slap his past self around.

I love how conveniently he stopped cheating at the end of his Texas career and all of his NY years since have been clean.

[Gizzmonic]

I caught this at lunch, the guys at MLB network were praising his confession as the "template" for admitting steroid malfeasance.  Like Pettitte, he confined it to a certain era, had a rationale, and stated that he wasn't using them anymore.

Does that mean that this whole scenario is now a positive for A-Rod?  I have no idea.

[Fredia]

maybe clemens should take notes

[Bench]

The always reliable NY Post sums A-Rod up perfectly.

[Limey]

Does that mean that this whole scenario is now a positive for A-Rod?  I have no idea.

I think A-Rod has had enough "positive" in this area already.

[HudsonHawk]

Will this work?

Since you asked....

A survey course in paleontology is generally a degree requirement for geology.  It's also typically one of the more challenging courses, and it was particularly so at UofH when I was there.  It forced many a change in majors from "geology" to "earth science", which is geology without the math, physics and paleontology.  At any rate, that semester I had missed an exam and had to take a makeup.  During the lab portion of the class, the professor left me in her office to take the exam while she went back into the classroom.  One of pieces of every exam was you had to identify various fossil genera from samples you'd pass around.  Now, there were fossils all over the lab and classroom, which were usually labeled for study purposes, but obviously the samples for the exam were not supposed to be labeled.  Well, it just so happened that when she left me with a handful of fossils to identify, she inavertently gave me one of the labled ones.  It was one I did not know.  I finished the exam and went to tell her I was finished except for one thing; the labeled fossil.  I said it wouldn't be quite fair for me to just take that credit.  She said she admired my honesty and gave me another fossil to identify.  The replacement fossil was a very obvious one and I got it correct.  I don't know if she gave me the easy one on purpose of not. 

[UpTooLate]

But there are large numbers of medical and law students who reside in the same ultra-competitive environment who aren't tempted to take that slight advantage, whatever their aspirations or identity. How come they aren't susceptible to the same pressure despite facing the same circumstances?

Morals.  Good upbringing.  Good role models.

I understand why people cheat.  It does not mean I endorse the action.

[Limey]

Since you asked....

A survey course in paleontology is generally a degree requirement for geology.  It's also typically one of the more challenging courses, and it was particularly so at UofH when I was there.  It forced many a change in majors from "geology" to "earth science", which is geology without the math, physics and paleontology.  At any rate, that semester I had missed an exam and had to take a makeup.  During the lab portion of the class, the professor left me in her office to take the exam while she went back into the classroom.  One of pieces of every exam was you had to identify various fossil genera from samples you'd pass around.  Now, there were fossils all over the lab and classroom, which were usually labeled for study purposes, but obviously the samples for the exam were not supposed to be labeled.  Well, it just so happened that when she left me with a handful of fossils to identify, she inavertently gave me one of the labled ones.  It was one I did not know.  I finished the exam and went to tell her I was finished except for one thing; the labeled fossil.  I said it wouldn't be quite fair for me to just take that credit.  She said she admired my honesty and gave me another fossil to identify.  The replacement fossil was a very obvious one and I got it correct.  I don't know if she gave me the easy one on purpose of not. 

And what was the identity of the replacement fossil?

"Jim R."

[S.P. Rodriguez]

horse. shit. 2.

Gotta agree with Jim here.  Hell, my 5 yr old will tell you "Integrity is doing what you're supposed to even when no one is watching."  They teach that in Kindergarden!  Don't excuse adults for fucking up what a 5yr old has down cold.  

[MusicMan]

I think I saw one of those.

Johnny Dangerously.  Awesome.

[Limey]

This is all part of the syndrome that has infected sports, and therefore modern life.  I find myself screaming at the TV when the soccer commentator explains how a player deserves credit for not flinging himself to the floor in an attempt to deke the referee.  Why?!!  Just because diving (what FIFA delightfully calls "simulation") is epidemic in the sport, doesn't mean that we should single out those who don't do it for particular praise.  This makes it seem that not cheating is somehow above and beyond the norm, when the opposite is true.

[Limey]

Gotta agree with Jim here.  Hell, my 5 yr old will tell you "Integrity is doing what you're supposed to even when no one is watching."  They teach that in Kindergarden!  Don't excuse adults for fucking up what a 5yr old has down cold.  

You want to know why A-Rod's mea culpa is just so much cock cheese?  The insurmountable pressure he claims he felt was because he was the highest paid player in baseball (playing on one of its crappiest teams, he didn't add).

OK, smartypants.  Who's fault was that?

[HudsonHawk]

Johnny Dangerously.  Awesome.

Did you know your last name is an adverb?

[MusicMan]

Did you know your last name is an adverb?

I am handicapped.  I'm psychotic.

[HudsonHawk]

I am handicapped.  I'm psychotic.

I LOVE shelf paper.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

I LOVE shelf paper.

My mother slapped me once, Johnny.  ONCE!

[Fredia]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6254411.html

berkman speaks. he seems to be one of those of whence you speak

[Lurch]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6254411.html

berkman speaks. he seems to be one of those of whence you speak

I'm one of those that wince when you speak

[Noe]

Funniest comment I heard today was on ESPN radio.  Basically, the host went on and on and on about how fans should stay away from making heroes out of the baseball players because your prone to be disappointed with them, just like many are today with A-Fraud.  So I thought, "okay, this guy has it right" and I no sooner said that to myself and the guy does a complete 180 degree turn "or at least make sure you know who you're calling a hero... say, like Albert Pujols".  So I thought to myself "Did he just implicated Poo-holes indirectly?".  I no sooner thought that when he started to talk about Pujols being a man who does things right.

See, there is is hypocrisy aplenty from fans to media to players to union to league to even congress.  I wish things were about playing baseball and then leave it at that because the opinions that float around about steroids scare me some times.  But then again, I truly am naive to think anyone will ever let go of this hot story and heck, witch burning has always been fun in whatever form it takes.  Baseball players are just stupid enough to continue to provide the witches people need, especially when they look into cameras and say with all sincerity "I've never in my life taken steroids".

[matadorph]

Somebody tell me that I did not just see a reporter ask President Obama in a fucking prime time national press conference about Alex Rodriguez's admission that he used steroids.

[Lurch]

Somebody tell me that I did not just see a reporter ask President Obama in a fucking prime time national press conference about Alex Rodriguez's admission that he used steroids.

Good.  Glad I wasn't the only one saying "ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!".  Embarrassing

I also like HuffingtonPost making sure they can still plan on targeting the Bush administration for four more years.

[Mr. Happy]

Good.  Glad I wasn't the only one saying "ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!".  Embarrassing

I also like HuffingtonPost making sure they can still plan on targeting the Bush administration for four more years.

The whole love fest thing is sickening. Will Obama ever have to face a real journalist? And fuck Huffington and the horse she rode in on.

[Limey]

The whole love fest thing is sickening. Will Obama ever have to face a real journalist? And fuck Huffington and the horse she rode in on.

Are you serious?

ETA:  Let me clarify:  I'm not suggesting that the PC was a Gitmo-style grilling.  However, the previous incumbent of that office spent the vast majority of his time in a protective bubble that kept him from having to answer tough questions from the public and press alike.  I'm not sure why HuffPo got a nod, but otherwise your tirade is off the mark to say the least.

The A-Fraud question was a waste of everyone's time, but this is what happens when PCs aren't stacked with patsies or, like Bush's final PC, seat-fillers taken from the White House staff.  That question was given a short (by Obama standards) answer, whereas the important ones were answered comprehensively, at length, and with the consummate use of complete sentences.

[Noe]

The whole love fest thing is sickening. Will Obama ever have to face a real journalist? And fuck Huffington and the horse she rode in on.

I think you missed the point entirely!

[Bench]

The whole love fest thing is sickening. Will Obama ever have to face a real journalist? And fuck Huffington and the horse she rode in on.

Maybe they're just happy to have somebody to talk to?

[Craig]

The whole love fest thing is sickening. Will Obama ever have to face a real journalist? And fuck Huffington and the horse she rode in on.

Too bad the gay hooker/"journalist" from the Bush Administration press conferences wasn't there to ask some probing questions. He would have gotten to the bottom of things and shown you a real love fest.

[HudsonHawk]

Maybe they're just happy to have somebody to talk to?

It's gonna take some time for some people to get used to Obama.  It's been a while since they've had a President who could speak in complete sentences. 

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

It's gonna take some time for some people to get used to Obama.  It's been a while since they've had a President who could speak in complete sentences. 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! that's funny! Very fresh and original. Never move on! That schtick is fucking golden! Hoo boy, that was a real coffee spewer!

[S.P. Rodriguez]

It's gonna take some time for some people to get used to Obama.  It's been a while since they've had a President who could speak in complete sentences. 

Oh boy, quick question for you, HH.  Are those rose colored glasses you're wearing?  Or is rose not the right color to help one overlook the immediate partisan rhetoric along with the procession of tax-cheating appointees?  Just let me know which color is most effective and I'll go buy a pair of those, because at this point, to me at least, this is looking like more of the same.  Only the rhetoric is a little more palatable to our friends on the left side of the room. 

[MusicMan]

OK, a more serious question to Mr. Happy:

What queston would you have asked?

[BudGirl]

OK, a more serious question to Mr. Happy:

What queston would you have asked?

Obviously it should have been who his favorite is on Dancing With the Stars.

[UpTooLate]

OK, a more serious question to Mr. Happy:

What queston would you have asked?

I can't speak for Mr. Happy, but I'd sure like to know why the White House wants control of the Census Bureau.  The census is serious business as it determines congressional districts and the federal money that eventually goes to those districts.  

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123423384887066377.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

[JimR]

Funniest comment I heard today was on ESPN radio.  Basically, the host went on and on and on about how fans should stay away from making heroes out of the baseball players because your prone to be disappointed with them, just like many are today with A-Fraud.  So I thought, "okay, this guy has it right" and I no sooner said that to myself and the guy does a complete 180 degree turn "or at least make sure you know who you're calling a hero... say, like Albert Pujols".  So I thought to myself "Did he just implicated Poo-holes indirectly?".  I no sooner thought that when he started to talk about Pujols being a man who does things right.

See, there is is hypocrisy aplenty from fans to media to players to union to league to even congress.  I wish things were about playing baseball and then leave it at that because the opinions that float around about steroids scare me some times.  But then again, I truly am naive to think anyone will ever let go of this hot story and heck, witch burning has always been fun in whatever form it takes.  Baseball players are just stupid enough to continue to provide the witches people need, especially when they look into cameras and say with all sincerity "I've never in my life taken steroids".

it is not witch burning, imo.

[pravata]

I can't speak for Mr. Happy, but I'd sure like to know why the White House wants control of the Census Bureau.  The census is serious business as it determines congressional districts and the federal money that eventually goes to those districts.  

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123423384887066377.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Obama's nominee, Republican Judd Gregg, has voted in the past to cut funding for the Census, in fact he tried to do away with the entire Dept. of Commerce.  The methodology of the Census count can have an affect on congressional districts and minority representation.  The methods are not cut and dried, certain decisions have to be made that can affect the outcome.  It is unreasonable to suspect a Democratic administration is going to give those decisions to a Republican.   Argue then, why is Obama giving the Republicans Commerce in the first place.  It's a puzzle to me too.

[Limey]

Obama's nominee, Republican Judd Gregg, has voted in the past to cut funding for the Census, in fact he tried to do away with the entire Dept. of Commerce.  The methodology of the Census count can have an affect on congressional districts and minority representation.  The methods are not cut and dried, certain decisions have to be made that can affect the outcome.  It is unreasonable to suspect a Democratic administration is going to give those decisions to a Republican.   Argue then, why is Obama giving the Republicans Commerce in the first place.  It's a puzzle to me too.

Bonus puzzlement: how was the Governor of New Hampshire able to make a deal with Gregg to appoint a Republican to Gregg's Senate seat, no questions asked, when the Governor of Illinois tried to do a deal for Obama's vacated seat, and got run out of town on a rail?

[UpTooLate]

Obama's nominee, Republican Judd Gregg, has voted in the past to cut funding for the Census, in fact he tried to do away with the entire Dept. of Commerce.  The methodology of the Census count can have an affect on congressional districts and minority representation.  The methods are not cut and dried, certain decisions have to be made that can affect the outcome.  It is unreasonable to suspect a Democratic administration is going to give those decisions to a Republican.   Argue then, why is Obama giving the Republicans Commerce in the first place.  It's a puzzle to me too.

I can't speak to Gregg's past voting record as I don't know it.  But he is the nominee.  I am far less concerned about a republican that reports directly to his democratic boss than I am of the obviously partisan occupants of the White House calling the shots.  This would be a disturbing move regardless of which party occupied the White House.

[Mr. Happy]

OK, a more serious question to Mr. Happy:

What queston would you have asked?

How would the spendulus bill's provision concerning health care (the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology provisions) do anything but ready us for socialized medicine?

[Limey]

How would the spendulus bill's [snip]

You do understand that spending is the entire point of the plan, right?

As for you actual question, he spoke to it by saying that going electronic with medical records would streamline and improve service while cutting costs.

[JimR]

can y'all take this political stuff somewhere else?

[Mr. Happy]

You do understand that spending is the entire point of the plan, right?

As for you actual question, he spoke to it by saying that going electronic with medical records would streamline and improve service while cutting costs.

Wrong. That's only one small part-$20 billion to help digitize health records iss fine. However, under the bill, EVERY medical record would be transmitted to this new federal agency. For what reason other than to one day be able to tell us what health care we can have? You should know that this doesn't work. See the National Health Service. The bottom line: don't fuck with someone who has actually read significant parts of this piece of collosal shit. This bill won't stimulate anything but more government, which is exactly what we don't need at this critical juncture. This bill is the greatest hits of Mama Pelosi's socialist agenda.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Bonus puzzlement: how was the Governor of New Hampshire able to make a deal with Gregg to appoint a Republican to Gregg's Senate seat, no questions asked, when the Governor of Illinois tried to do a deal for Obama's vacated seat, and got run out of town on a rail?

The plain and simple explanation?  The incumbent can request the seat remain within party.  The practice is well within tradition but is by no means binding.  The implications are obvious, filibuster proof majority etc..., so the arguments for and against this request will be quickly painted as partisan or political.  Some folks just really believe in the checks and balances philosophy.  I'm one of them. 

That said, the main difference between Gregg and Blagojevich is obvious to most.  And that difference is, Gregg didn't offer or request monetary compensation to persuade the NH Gov on the specific candidate.  He simply requested the seat remain within the republican party, as it would if he declined the nomination.  It also doesn't hurt that Gregg is reportedly friends w/ the Governor.  NH is a fairly moderate state, from what I've read, so this type of accomodation doesn't strike me as all that abnormal or suspicious

That said, shouldn't this discussion migrate to Beer y Queso?

[Limey]

Wrong. That's only one small part-$20 billion to help digitize health records iss fine. However, under the bill, EVERY medical record would be transmitted to this new federal agency. For what reason other than to one day be able to tell us what health care we can have? You should know that this doesn't work. See the National Health Service. The bottom line: don't fuck with someone who has actually read significant parts of this piece of collosal shit. This bill won't stimulate anything but more government, which is exactly what we don't need at this critical juncture. This bill is the greatest hits of Mama Pelosi's socialist agenda.

The NHS does work, because it takes the burden of providing healthcare off employers and makes sure that everyone...EVERYONE...has access to a doctor.  Not just ER treatment, but proper medical treatment including cancer screenings and the like.  If you need a new hip and the wait list is over a year on the NHS, you are at liberty to whip out your credit card and get it done privately.  No one is forced to use the NHS, but everyone is allowed to use it.

and if the NHS doesn't work, how broken must the US healthcare system be?

[TheWizard]

This thread turned uglier than Clemens' backside real quick.

[Guinness]

The NHS does work, because it takes the burden of providing healthcare off employers and makes sure that everyone...EVERYONE...has access to a doctor. 
No one is forced to use the NHS, but everyone is allowed to use it.

And that's the disconnect, it's not about taking away private insurance and forcing everyone into Soviet style healthcare, it's about giving everyone access to healthcare.  Many people in the UK have private insurance, and completely bypass the NHS altogether.  
Also, some of the problem sthe US automakers have with competing with Japanese and other manufacturers is that the overseas manufacturers don't have to pay for employer sponsored health care because their workers already have it.

[JimR]

DAMMIT, PLEASE STOP!

[Guinness]

DAMMIT, PLEASE STOP!

Stopping.  As a change of gears, Pete Rose was mentioned elsewhere--do steroids taint the ballplayer in the same way as gambling?

[Mr. Happy]

The NHS does work, because it takes the burden of providing healthcare off employers and makes sure that everyone...EVERYONE...has access to a doctor.  Not just ER treatment, but proper medical treatment including cancer screenings and the like.  If you need a new hip and the wait list is over a year on the NHS, you are at liberty to whip out your credit card and get it done privately.  No one is forced to use the NHS, but everyone is allowed to use it.

and if the NHS doesn't work, how broken must the US healthcare system be?

A one year plus wait for a hip. That's damning by faint praise. I say let the market do its work. Many people who don't have health coverage today in the US make a conscientious choice not to have it, opting to spend their money elsewhere.

[Limey]

A one year plus wait for a hip. That's damning by faint praise. I say let the market do its work. Many people who don't have health coverage today in the US make a conscientious choice not to have it, opting to spend their money elsewhere.

I've said this before, but I have a mate who is walking around on a knee that is totally fucked.  It won't get fixed unless and until he wins the lottery (or Obama enacts the promised national insurance scheme), because he's self-employed and can't afford health insurance.  Even if he could, and new insurer would exclude the knee s a pre-existing condition.  It's been like this for years now.

Ask him if he'd mind a one year wait for knee surgery?

ETA:  I'll stop know as this is the wrong forum (literally and figuratively).

[Noe]

it is not witch burning, imo.

Because once the "for the kids" angle appeared (and some kids died, the most well known was a kid in Dallas who committed suicide), it wasn't about a bunch of idiots any more.  It was about their lack of responsibility as role models for the youngsters.  Players will tell you they are not role models, parents should be (and it's very true).  But the MLB markets to youngsters and these guys make millions due to this marketing, so you can't have your cake and eat it too.  So they do have a responsibility, so NO STERIODS!  And well, no drunk driving, no bongs, no cursing (within earshot of the kids at the park), comport yourself well at all times.

This is why it's not witch hunting?

[Noe]

Stopping.  As a change of gears, Pete Rose was mentioned elsewhere--do steroids taint the ballplayer in the same way as gambling?

Yes.  And it sells in the media too.  Quite well actually.  Of course, greenies taint a ballplayer too, but that doesn't really cause a blip in the media radar because it's just not a good story like steroids and gambling.

[pravata]

I can't speak to Gregg's past voting record as I don't know it.  But he is the nominee.  I am far less concerned about a republican that reports directly to his democratic boss than I am of the obviously partisan occupants of the White House calling the shots.  This would be a disturbing move regardless of which party occupied the White House.

Would "obviously partisan occupants" even consider appointing someone from the other party for a cabinet post?  Not even to mention three of them. If there's some angle there, I don't see it.

[UpTooLate]

Would "obviously partisan occupants" even consider appointing someone from the other party for a cabinet post?  Not even to mention three of them. If there's some angle there, I don't see it.

This is such the wrong thread for this conversation, but I'll answer.

Bush had a democrat in Transportation (Minetta?).  I could give a shit about how many republicans Obama appoints to cabinet positions.  The Census Bureau reporting directly to the White House is a terrible idea because of gerrymandering.  It's already a problem, but having staffers at the White House directing the census is like handing over the keys to the inmates.  At least having the "bureaucracy" that exists in all of the departments would provide some buffer to the blatant abuse that either party would exercise if their own White House staff were calling the shots.  I'm thinking long term here, not just the 2010 census.  It's a terrible precedent if enacted.

[Phil_in_CS]

Yes.  And it sells in the media too.  Quite well actually.  Of course, greenies taint a ballplayer too, but that doesn't really cause a blip in the media radar because it's just not a good story like steroids and gambling.

And greenies can have a huge impact on a player dragging another year out to pad stats.

[Taras Bulba]

I've said this before, but I have a mate who is walking around on a knee that is totally fucked.  It won't get fixed unless and until he wins the lottery (or Obama enacts the promised national insurance scheme), because he's self-employed and can't afford health insurance.  Even if he could, and new insurer would exclude the knee s a pre-existing condition.  It's been like this for years now.

Ask him if he'd mind a one year wait for knee surgery?

ETA:  I'll stop know as this is the wrong forum (literally and figuratively).

Your mate may want to check in with the Texas High Risk Pool.  First stop would be the TDI.

[pravata]

This is such the wrong thread for this conversation, but I'll answer.

... I could give a shit about how many republicans Obama appoints to cabinet positions.  ...

And I'm out.

[strosrays]

Since you asked....

A survey course in paleontology is generally a degree requirement for geology.  It's also typically one of the more challenging courses, and it was particularly so at UofH when I was there.  It forced many a change in majors from "geology" to "earth science", which is geology without the math, physics and paleontology.  At any rate, that semester I had missed an exam and had to take a makeup.  During the lab portion of the class, the professor left me in her office to take the exam while she went back into the classroom.  One of pieces of every exam was you had to identify various fossil genera from samples you'd pass around.  Now, there were fossils all over the lab and classroom, which were usually labeled for study purposes, but obviously the samples for the exam were not supposed to be labeled.  Well, it just so happened that when she left me with a handful of fossils to identify, she inavertently gave me one of the labled ones.  It was one I did not know.  I finished the exam and went to tell her I was finished except for one thing; the labeled fossil.  I said it wouldn't be quite fair for me to just take that credit.  She said she admired my honesty and gave me another fossil to identify.  The replacement fossil was a very obvious one and I got it correct.  I don't know if she gave me the easy one on purpose of not. 

I apologize for the thread hijack -- I got nothing political -- but gee-fucking-whiz, HH.  That is a great story, but at the end I was hoping for something more than an easy fossil from the woman.  You should have told her, "Thanks for the fossil; but I got a bone of more recent vintage here that could benefit from your  classification skills."

[matadorph]

I apologize for the thread hijack -- I got nothing political -- but gee-fucking-whiz, HH.  That is a great story, but at the end I was hoping for something more than an easy fossil from the woman.  You should have told her, "Thanks for the fossil; but I got a bone of more recent vintage here that could benefit from your  classification skills."

i'll be the first to say it.

"nominated."

[chuck]

I apologize for the thread hijack -- I got nothing political -- but gee-fucking-whiz, HH.  That is a great story, but at the end I was hoping for something more than an easy fossil from the woman.  You should have told her, "Thanks for the fossil; but I got a bone of more recent vintage here that could benefit from your  classification skills."

There's a microscope joke lurking in there somewhere, I just know it.

[Noe]

And greenies can have a huge impact on a player dragging another year out to pad stats.

And in terms of harmful, I'm sure some doctors can be found to extrapolate how taking uppers for an extended period of time can cause harm to one's heart.  But the media is going to ignore those stories until it gets to the proportions that steriods, gambling and drunk driving are now in the eyes of John Q. Public.  But does the tail wag the dog here or is this just the pursuit of the truth?

BTW - I should be shot, I actually agree with Marvin Miller!

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3896888&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines

[pravata]

...106 players were authorized to use drugs for Attention Deficit Disorder last season, (2008) Major League Baseball revealed....
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2009-01-11-stimulants-exemptions_N.htm

[chuck]

...106 players were authorized to use drugs for Attention Deficit Disorder last season, (2008) Major League Baseball revealed....
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2009-01-11-stimulants-exemptions_N.htm

I wonder if Ed can figure out how to get Lance signed up for this program.

[MRaup]

I wonder if Ed can figure out how to get Lance signed up for this program.

Make the pills different colors and put them in a pez dispenser... Oh, how to get him on the program, not how to get Lance to take them.

[HudsonHawk]

I apologize for the thread hijack -- I got nothing political -- but gee-fucking-whiz, HH.  That is a great story, but at the end I was hoping for something more than an easy fossil from the woman.  You should have told her, "Thanks for the fossil; but I got a bone of more recent vintage here that could benefit from your  classification skills."

If you ever saw this woman, you'd vomit in your mouth just for thinking such a thought.

http://www.geosc.uh.edu/faculty/faculty.php?155622-961-5=rmaddock

[HudsonHawk]

Oh boy, quick question for you, HH.  Are those rose colored glasses you're wearing?  Or is rose not the right color to help one overlook the immediate partisan rhetoric along with the procession of tax-cheating appointees?  Just let me know which color is most effective and I'll go buy a pair of those, because at this point, to me at least, this is looking like more of the same.  Only the rhetoric is a little more palatable to our friends on the left side of the room. 

I see your sour grapes have now contaminated your sense of humor.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I see your sour grapes have now contaminated your sense of humor.

back at ya! 

Seriously, I'm not dissappointed or bitter about the election results.  I don't know know if I'm unique in this, but as someone with conservative leanings, I see the republican party as hi-jacked by the "religuous right" and those in the pocket of special interests (this latter part is not so unique to the Republicans, unfortunately).  That has zero appeal to me and I will vote my conscience and not strictly for a party

I am, however, disappointed by the tax situation of the three nominees and the increasing partisan bickering.  Both sides are guilty of bickering so I don't hold one over the other.

[HudsonHawk]

back at ya! 

Seriously, I'm not dissappointed or bitter about the election results.  I don't know know if I'm unique in this, but as someone with conservative leanings, I see the republican party as hi-jacked by the "religuous right" and those in the pocket of special interests (this latter part is not so unique to the Republicans, unfortunately).  That has zero appeal to me and I will vote my conscience and not strictly for a party

I am, however, disappointed by the tax situation of the three nominees and the increasing partisan bickering.  Both sides are guilty of bickering so I don't hold one over the other.

You and I are probably not that far off.  I could conceivably be a Republican, if I could just get those fuckers out of peoples' personal lives.  Until then, however, I'll take the lesser of the two weevils.

[Limey]

...106 players were authorized to use drugs for Attention Deficit Disorder last season, (2008) Major League Baseball revealed....
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2009-01-11-stimulants-exemptions_N.htm

Would've been 107 if Biggio hadn't retired.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

You and I are probably not that far off.  I could conceivably be a Republican, if I could just get those fuckers out of peoples' personal lives.  Until then, however, I'll take the lesser of the two weevils.

[soapbox] Interestingly enough, when I sit down and discuss issues with people I know, I find I'm not far off from most of my left leaning friends.  For whatever reason, we all get caught up in the sniping and rhetoric.  I am not exempt, by any means, but grasp for perspective at all cost. [/soapbox]

[Limey]

[soapbox] Interestingly enough, when I sit down and discuss issues with people I know, I find I'm not far off from most of my left leaning friends.  For whatever reason, we all get caught up in the sniping and rhetoric.  I am not exempt, by any means, but grasp for perspective at all cost. [/soapbox]

Where I think people (myself included) get caught up is defending "their side" against everything, as if they never fuck up.  We're not teenage girls arguing over which of the Jonas Brothers is hotter, but we do act like it.

[Bench]

We're not teenage girls arguing over which of the Jonas Brothers is hotter, but we do act like it.

So, is there a right answer to that debate?  Uh... what side am I on?

[JimR]

[soapbox] Interestingly enough, when I sit down and discuss issues with people I know, I find I'm not far off from most of my left leaning friends.  For whatever reason, we all get caught up in the sniping and rhetoric.  I am not exempt, by any means, but grasp for perspective at all cost. [/soapbox]

get off your soapbox and take this elsewhere. please. there is a separate forum where the geniuses solve the world's problems. this is the Talk Zone. you know, baseball.

[Ron Brand]

Pitchers and catchers, Coach. 

[Limey]

Fuck-Rod Wondering What Permutation Of His Name Will Be Used For Steroid Story

[homer]

And I'm out.

Gregg withdraws...

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/12/gregg.nomination/index.html

But a GOP source said Gregg "didn't want to be a powerless GOP token, and that's where this was headed."

[hillbillyken]

Yeah I remember it was a sad day for baseball.
http://philadelphia.about.com/od/uniquelyphiladelphia/a/eric_gregg.htm

[Mr. Happy]

Yeah I remember it was a sad day for baseball.
http://philadelphia.about.com/od/uniquelyphiladelphia/a/eric_gregg.htm

I used to get to go out with the umpires when Greg Bonin was an umpire in the NL. I met Eric Gregg and went out with the crew several times. He was a gregarious fellow, and I liked him.