Wolf says no

[pravata]

He's going to test free agency, says he's 32 and wants the money, also says he wants to be in the playoffs.  The Astros are still going to pursue but Wade says if something doesn't get done quick, he's moving on.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081113&content_id=3677451&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp

[Mr. Happy]

He's going to test free agency, says he's 32 and wants the money, also says he wants to be in the playoffs.  The Astros are still going to pursue but Wade says if something doesn't get done quick, he's moving on.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081113&content_id=3677451&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp

Sounds like both parties are doing what they ought to do.

[BUWebguy]

That sounds more like a "maybe" than a "no."

[pravata]

That sounds more like a "maybe" than a "no."

Right, but first there was a "no" to the Astros current offer.

[JimR]

i am sure Wolf knows that thing only thing keeping this team out of the playoffs is pitching. this seems to me to be more about money than the playoffs.

[BudGirl]

i am sure Wolf knows that thing only thing keeping this team out of the playoffs is pitching. this seems to me to be more about money than the playoffs.

One doesn't sound like a greedy bastard when you throw the "playoff team" comment out.

[MusicMan]

Or "better public schools".

[Reuben]

Anybody have any guesses on what kind of deal Wolf will get? Coming off an above-average, healthy season, but being injured frequently in other years, I'm stumped as to how many years and dollars he'll be offered. Maybe that's why he and his agent want to test the waters, they don't know either.

[Mr. Happy]

i am sure Wolf knows that thing only thing keeping this team out of the playoffs is pitching. this seems to me to be more about money than the playoffs.

I don't think that there's anything wrong with a player maximizing his value. The clubs will stick you whenever they can. One must make hay while the sun is shining.

[JimR]

I don't think that there's anything wrong with a player maximizing his value. The clubs will stick you whenever they can. One must make hay while the sun is shining.

boofuckinghoo. they stuck him last year and forced him to accept a paltry $4.5 million. if it is about money, say so instead of the playoffs bs.

[Mr. Happy]

boofuckinghoo. they stuck him last year and forced him to accept a paltry $4.5 million. if it is about money, say so instead of the playoffs bs.

Well, he kind of did say that too, although admittedly he threw in the bit about the playoffs. My point is that he's a big boy and if he wants to take a big risk and test the FA waters, then he should do so.

[I'm Richies Dad]

So anyone thinks Hampton will sign quickly, now that Wolf is gonna test the waters?

[S.P. Rodriguez]

So anyone thinks Hampton will sign quickly, now that Wolf is gonna test the waters?

ESPN projects Houston will go after Hampton if Wolf lingers too long.  It doesn't make much sense to me.  Hampton's injury history is extensive and makes sense only if he comes dirt cheap.  Why would he go to Houston for next to nothing if Atlanta will offer the same?

Like last year, I think Wade is going to surprise us w/ the deal no one saw coming (I hope).  This team has a number of 3/4/5 options.  They need a true #2 and I'm not sure Wolf was that guy.  That said, I don't know who is and isn't either out of Houston's presumed price range or have health questions. 

Sheets is looking better and better.  Garland, maybe, but I've not read nor heard anything that indicates Houston is on his radar. 

As I see it now, Houston's rotation has some holes:

w/o Wolf:
Oswalt
#2
Wandy
Backe
Moehler

w/ Wolf
Oswalt
#2
Wolf
Wandy
Moehler/Backe 

For me, the later option w/ Wolf is far better than not retaining him.  I do not expect Moehler to duplicate his performance, based on history.  But as a guy you can combine with another hit or miss guy, Backe, I'd take that in a heartbeat. 

I'm not sure if this belongs in The Bus Ride but is there any word on Nieve or Paulino?  I think I read Paulino is playing winterball but am not certain.

eta:  confirmed Paulino is in winter ball but last update indicates he has not yet played as of 11/10.

[I'm Richies Dad]

I think Duman had a post but I can't find it whereas Paulino was throwing but I have heard a thing about Nieve.

[Duder]

I wouldn't mind signing Hampton if his contract was based heavily on incentives.

[HudsonHawk]

I wouldn't mind signing Hampton if his contract was based heavily on incentives.

Well, that's not gonna happen.  There may be a minor amount of incentives, but it won't be the bulk of the contract.  Secondly, incentives in a contract cannot be tied directly to performance, so I'm not sure what that would necessarily buy you.

[JackAstro]

Well, that's not gonna happen.  There may be a minor amount of incentives, but it won't be the bulk of the contract.  Secondly, incentives in a contract cannot be tied directly to performance, so I'm not sure what that would necessarily buy you.

Innings?

[Ron Brand]

Innings?

Schools.

Fuck Hampton and his traitorousness.  I'd rather take a flyer on Sheets and troll for help somewhere else.  But that's just me.

[HudsonHawk]

Innings?

Yeah, you can tie them to innings.  The problem is, if the guy sucks and you bench him, he files a lawsuit stating that the only reason that you're benching him is because he sucks, which effectively means he won't make his incentives based on performance, which is not allowed. 

[Randy Watson]

From the article:

"Wolf's 190 1/3 innings pitched in 2008 were his most in five years"

If he goes elsewhere, I really am not that concerned.  The likelihood of him staying healthy enough to make a difference is not all that great.  Unless the club thinks Wolf is truly over the injuries that made him a mediocre part time pitcher between 2003 and 2008, this really won't be much of a loss.

[otterjb]

Sheets would be a gamble, but a good one to take, imo.

He might be signed for at a relatively lower price versus what he could be worth, and for shorter-term.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=3695863

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Just idle curiosity, but when was the last time a player said, "You know, I don't care if I sign with a playoff contender.  My eyes may be allergic to champagne, and I'm more concerned with the money than the winning.  So Pirates, Royals, Mariners: call me!"

[geezerdonk]

Fuck Hampton and his traitorousness.  I'd rather take a flyer on Sheets and troll for help somewhere else.  But that's just me.

That pretty much sums it up for me.

[Limey]

One doesn't sound like a greedy bastard when you throw the "playoff team" comment out.

It's the lipstick on the greedy pig*.

* FTR, I have no problem with players wringing every last penny out of their owners.  I have a huge problem when they try and dress it up as an example of their commitment to winning.

[JimR]

It's the lipstick on the greedy pig*.

* FTR, I have no problem with players wringing every last penny out of their owners.  I have a huge problem when they try and dress it up as an example of their commitment to winning.

that's what i was trying to say. if you want to cash in, say so.

[Limey]

That pretty much sums it up for me.

Groundhog Day?

[Limey]

that's what i was trying to say. if you want to cash in, say so.

The closest thing to honesty I've ever heard from a player in this regard was over this summer's ballyhoo involving World Soccer Player of the Year Christiano Ronaldo of Manchester Utd.  It was widely rumoured that Real Madrid were going to pay Man Utd $150mm for the player's contract* and up Ronaldo's personal terms to $100mm.  Paraphrasing, Ronaldo simply said that, if the numbers are legitimate, everybody wins so why wouldn't I want the deal to go through?  Good answer, I thought.  Then he went and tumbled over a blade of grass and I was back to cursing his entire existence.

* In soccer, players' contracts are bought and sold by teams.  Trades in the MLB sense are rare.

[BudGirl]

Just idle curiosity, but when was the last time a player said, "You know, I don't care if I sign with a playoff contender.  My eyes may be allergic to champagne, and I'm more concerned with the money than the winning.  So Pirates, Royals, Mariners: call me!"

When did A-Rod sign with the Rangers?

[Limey]

When did A-Rod sign with the Rangers?

Doesn't work.  A-Rod figured that he made anyone a contender.

[OregonStrosFan]

Doesn't work.  A-Rod figured that he made anyone a contender.

Gil Mesche, Royals.

[Noe]

that's what i was trying to say. if you want to cash in, say so.

I liked Albert Pujols statement "God wants me to have 100 million dollars".  M'kay... works for me!

[DVauthrin]

To be fair to Wolf he did say he was flattered by the astros pursuit of his services.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

To be fair to Wolf he did say he was flattered by the astros pursuit of his services.

Well, how touching. It's nice he would say that.

[Señor Stan]

Wolf he did say he was flattered by the astros pursuit of his services.

Sincerely,

I Like You as a Friend

[Andyzipp]

Fittingly, rather than a signature, the Astros' contract offer to Wolf required Randy to check yes, no or maybe if he wanted to be BFFs.

[Hornstros]

From the article:

"Wolf's 190 1/3 innings pitched in 2008 were his most in five years"

If he goes elsewhere, I really am not that concerned.  The likelihood of him staying healthy enough to make a difference is not all that great.  Unless the club thinks Wolf is truly over the injuries that made him a mediocre part time pitcher between 2003 and 2008, this really won't be much of a loss.

That's a good point.   Even if he does sign elsewhere, the Astros will receive a compensatory pick....the pick could potentially (and hopefully) be of greater value than what we gave up to get Wolf in the first place, in Chad Reineke

[MusicMan]

That's a good point.   Even if he does sign elsewhere, the Astros will receive a compensatory pick....the pick could potentially (and hopefully) be of greater value than what we gave up to get Wolf in the first place, in Chad Reineke

i.e., the point every talking head was missing last year.

[Billy Zabka]

Just idle curiosity, but when was the last time a player said, "You know, I don't care if I sign with a playoff contender.  My eyes may be allergic to champagne, and I'm more concerned with the money than the winning.  So Pirates, Royals, Mariners: call me!"

I don't know about baseball, but Rasheed Wallace described his decision making process "CTC - Cut the Check."

[HudsonHawk]

that's what i was trying to say. if you want to cash in, say so.

In the immortal words of Rick Blain...I don't mind a parasite, I object to a cut-rate one.

[pots]

i.e., the point every talking head was missing last year.

Makes you wonder just how hard of an effort they will put towards Mr. Type A this year.  
If everything plays out one way, The Stros could be looking at 2 first round, Suplemental and 3 second round picks? Of course I imagine they sign at least 1 Type B from someone else.  Either way you really haven't lost any ket cogs and are looking at a lot of early picks.  

[Jacksonian]

Makes you wonder just how hard of an effort they will put towards Mr. Type A this year.  
If everything plays out one way, The Stros could be looking at 2 first round, Suplemental and 3 second round picks? Of course I imagine they sign at least 1 Type B from someone else.  Either way you really haven't lost any ket cogs and are looking at a lot of early picks.  

Signing a Type B costs nothing in terms of draft picks.

My understanding is that Wade is going to VERY carefully weigh the draft cost of signing a Type A free agent.  IMO, if he doesn't believe he'll get full value (relatively injury free and longer term contract with high quality work [see Lee, Carlos not Williams, Woody]) out of signing a guy like Sheets (Type A), he won't sign a Type A free agent.  Type B's are another story.

If the Astros arb offer Wolf, Loretta, and Brocail and all of them went elsewhere the compensation would be 2 supplemental 1st round picks for Wolf and Loretta, and at best a 1st round pick for Brocail contingent on the signing team's other free agent signings.

[Reuben]

Signing a Type B costs nothing in terms of draft picks.

My understanding is that Wade is going to VERY carefully weigh the draft cost of signing a Type A free agent.  IMO, if he doesn't believe he'll get full value (relatively injury free and longer term contract with high quality work [see Lee, Carlos not Williams, Woody]) out of signing a guy like Sheets (Type A), he won't sign a Type A free agent.  Type B's are another story.

If the Astros arb offer Wolf, Loretta, and Brocail and all of them went elsewhere the compensation would be 2 supplemental 1st round picks for Wolf and Loretta, and at best a 1st round pick for Brocail contingent on the signing team's other free agent signings.

Considering the Astros declined Brocail's option, I would think it unlikely they'd offer him arb, because of the risk that he'd get even more money. Then again, maybe they're willing to gamble. And it does sound like other teams are interested, like the Phillies and Red Sox.

[Gizzmonic]

Wolf oughtta send the Astros a nice thank-you note wherever he goes.  They helped him increase his salary by at least a couple million.

[das]

Wolf oughtta send the Astros a nice thank-you note wherever he goes.  They helped him increase his salary by at least a couple million.

How did the Astros do that?  He was the one on the mound throwing bb's for the 2nd half.

[Gizzmonic]

How did the Astros do that?  He was the one on the mound throwing bb's for the 2nd half.

1)He had better run support, which led to more wins;

2)His performance convinced GMs he can pitch in a "hitter-friendly" park like Minute Maid Park, which widens his appeal.   

I might also argue that he helped a contending team win down the stretch, which probably raises his stock a little bit as well, although that may be a little subjective.